If you were curious about my thoughts on the DEATH BATTLE since I watched it live? I'll write them out in this pinned comment, but feel free to reply to this comment if you think the Death Battle needs a reply or debunk in the future. Also, SPOILERS for the winner? Obviously. So? In terms of the breakdown? I thought it was fine- I love both characters quite a bit? But I do feel like, considering they were including heroes feats for Goku, we should have had wayyyy more on that, then the rest of Dragon Ball. Considering? They basically only touched on new stuff for Superman. Otherwise? The animation was nice, with a good ending- although? I think it could've been a bit longer, and sort of wished they brought Masako X back for the voice of Goku to really fill out the trilogy. In terms of who one? Like I said in the end of this video, Death Battle treats these characters very differently than me? So my prediction that Superman would take the Death Battle- was pretty accurate. Hope that answers anyone's questions looking here!

@joedapo4153

6 ай бұрын

You were literally spot on. I enjoyed your video.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

I'm glad you think so! Hope you'll stick around to see whatever is next!

@joedapo4153

6 ай бұрын

@@TUCKALMIGHTY I will for sure

@limbo9993

6 ай бұрын

Death Battle Animation was goated asf like fr that shit was on point. The ending clash was one of the best scenes in the show. Superman really gave Goku the "Stand proud, you're strong." speech tho like even the scene composition was similar 😭 Research was better than the last two but still kinda eh, my biggest gripe is the volume scaling for the universes when they are both stated to be infinite several times lol. Imo Goku should have won but it was a fantastic watch so I'm not gonna hate on it. Next time is also hype 👀

@footballman10

6 ай бұрын

I think they didnt use enough feats from heroes which is pretty broken and if they did i think Goku would win... yoi need to do a debunk(or a deeper di e if it makes more sense) on the facts they showed P S. Your Video actually answers the question better than they did

Look up the storyline Infinite Frontiers. All past versions of Superman, Pre-Crisis, Post, Rebirth, New 52, are all now combined and are officially canon. Death Battle didn't need to combine them. DC already did it for them.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

5 ай бұрын

I’m pretty sure in the first five minutes, I talk about how I considered rebirth Superman to do this anyways for the video. So? Yes. They have multiple canon excuses now; they did not for the first two videos.

I find it funny how strangely in character it is for Goku to get walloped (presumably) three times, and still ask for more lol

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

Lol, this is 100% accurate. He’s just getting ready to ask for four.

@lilikaramirez1848

6 ай бұрын

I find it strange he can't surpass a foe...This isn't lore worthy..it's fanboy..three times Goku doesn't lose three times without adapting to and surpassing whatever obstacle is in front of him. Jiren was levels above Goku and in less than 48 minutes Goku closed the gap. So fighting three times he can't get anywhere near an opponent that's levels above him? Bullshit. This is fanboy crap.

@scar2377

6 ай бұрын

​@@lilikaramirez1848well with how dc basically said everything for superman is canon and I mean every time dc rested their universes their still canon going back to the sliver age I can not see Goku surpassing this sure goku dose surpass his opponents but if his opponent has this much BS and is only getting more he may never win

@erickvelez4691

5 ай бұрын

​@@TheAngelofMercyIt is impossible for Goku to surpass Superman and don't get me wrong I prefer Goku because getting to the point, you can't compete with someone who in a comic has the power of armor another day he stays sleeping in the sun another day you are super boy prime I mean rays Everywhere powers are given, there is not much training, discipline, if I am in a battle in the middle of a comic, I let myself get beaten up and then I use my power or use the sun. The truth is that Superman's battles make no sense with his almost invulnerable physique, no. It's funny even Daishinkan would lose to Superman.

@MrJeffreyrichards

4 ай бұрын

@@scar2377 I said basicly the same thing they made superman now have all version of him as 1 and all feats cannon to him like how do you beat that he has done everything.

So what you are saying is that Goku has no chance of winning cause superman is faster,stronger & more durable than Goku

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

I don’t think you understood the point of half the video. But no, that’s not really what I was saying.

@cjcj4861

6 ай бұрын

​@@TUCKALMIGHTYI didn't saw this entire video and let me tell you your points are ass there's some disagreements with this you going to say death battle going to have Superman win no not the third time because why Superman already won a death battle twice why would he win the third time

@cjcj4861

6 ай бұрын

​​@@TUCKALMIGHTYas much as I hate Goku in your dumb power scaling I think Goku might pull off a win here for the third time at least

@Antoniocardozo3763

6 ай бұрын

@@cjcj4861let’s hope he is right

@Futurezenosaiyan

6 ай бұрын

​@@Antoniocardozo3763I just can't justify a third fight unless somehow Goku wins, but even then it just feels like pity if Goku wins

This is a good video but I have a problem with the consistency argument. I understand that western super heroes seem inconsistent when compared to many Shonen characters, but I’d argue there is a level of consistency you can drag from each character. No matter how much you argue it, you will never find Batman blowing up a planet with a punch, not will you find Captain America no selling an entire universe blowing up. That’s simply the nature of those characters. If you take all of their showings, you’d be hard pressed to find consistent feats above city level for the both of them. A similar thing can be said for Superman. The problem I am having with this video is that it doesn’t fairly look at Superman and Goku under the same lens. If we want to talk consistency, the metric is not super clear. This video tells us that Superman is vaguely past large planet level, but why? In your own words, all of Superman’s high ends and low ends are perfectly valid. In his 90 years of publication, the amount of mountain-country level feats Superman shows massively outweigh his planetary ones. The reason why is stated in the video and is also the in-story explanation of him holding back and struggling to not hold back. We could just hand wave this explanation away, but that wouldn’t be truthful to Superman’s character nor what the actual stories are telling us directly on panel. I do agree with avoiding the use of outliers in debates like these (i.e. Batman punching Reverse Flash, etc) but what is an outlier? Why is Superman no selling a universe blowing up on him an “outlier” vs Superman tanking a planetary explosion? Superman has significantly more universal-multiversal feats than he does even planetary/star level ones. Why are those not consistent at this point? 95% of Superman’s stories do not have stakes high enough to prompt Superman to use his full power, so why are we giving them the same level of weight as Superman explicitly using his max force? Even if we disagree with that, why is Goku “consistently” stronger? DBS Goku has like 2 explicitly universal feats but he gets to be “consistently” stronger than Superman? Why are we not looking at Goku struggling with 100 kilos during DB, 6 tons at 100g training, 40 tons during DBZ, or 1000 tons during DBS as “equally valid”? Broly, while not controlling his ki was only going to destroy the planet, Moro while unstable was only strong enough to destroy the galaxy, and SSJB Vegeta was completely blown up and killed by Frieza’s planetary explosion. Those are also feats that happened relatively recently on DB’s power scaling journey but no one talks about those because it would be silly to argue the multiversal Goku could be challenged by a bullet/planetary/galaxy class explosion. What is the point in doing a vs debate if we are not looking at both characters at their best?

@8bitutopia182

5 ай бұрын

This makes sense. Its disingenuous to say Supes is inconsistent because he loses to weaker foes like Batman, but then Batman has never busted a planet has he?

@DeadDogInc

4 ай бұрын

This is it

@dxsupreme5498

2 ай бұрын

@@8bitutopia182Superman losing to Batman is plot some of the biggest bullshit if he wanted he’d easily kill Batman

@Am_Cookie2436

14 күн бұрын

Finally someone with a working brain

My problem with the first battle is that if you use Clark's anti feats, you have to do the same for Goku (Like getting killed by a laser in his Blue Form). You can pick and choose what feats you use to put the fight into Goku's favor if you say his high ends are inconsistent (even when he has multiple feats to say otherwise). And Superman's narrative is now not only a canon ability, but it's not about him being stronger than everyone else. Superman is the embodiment of the human ability to do the right thing and no matter how outmatched may seem, he will keep fighting to protect the people he cares about (which is pretty much everyone). He's nothing like the foes Goku has faced in his stories, who just state that they're vaguely stronger than everyone he's faced before. So even if Goku and Superman were equals, Superman's narrative (which is a canon ability now) would allow him to adapt to Goku until he wins.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

In terms of the Anti-Feats thing, yes? I agree that you should take both equally into account when talking about the fight. But all of Goku's anti feats (literally almost every single one) can be explained away, because we are straight up told why they happen, or have a logical excuse. The laser was off guard, Goku has to be maintaining defenses to block attacks (which we saw all the way back in Z, when he took a death beam to the chin, and nothing happened) The 40 tons thing likely implies lifting doesn't equal striking in Z (even though Goku has more lifting feats in Z of course) Where as? For superman, some statements just straight up tell you opposite things about him. Some guide books and claims imply he can fly faster than flash- others imply flash is faster. Some say Superman is the strongest league member (or could solo the league) where as others imply Batman, Wonder woman, and Martian manhunter could all contend with or beat him. Which? Is ignoring countless stories, where he does straight up just lose as well (Doomsday, Atlas, Shazam, Darkseid, and many more, have beaten him with & without weaknesses) As for the narrative thing? I don't even think it needed to be made into official canon to take it into account. But, in my honest opinon? I don't think his narrative stands above Goku in this fight. Superman being the embodiment of the fighting human spirit to protect people he cares about, is fine and accurate. But since Goku not an evil villain (the kind of people superman fights to protect people from) and also has a narrative, about specifically surpassing people- who stand at the pinnacle of power (like the literal "super"man) I'd find it much more likely, that by every account- taking their consistent abilities and tool sets? That Goku's narrative, to surpass people for only himself (not just others)) as well as having more abilities (and maybe more skill) gives him a small edge.

@thathero5953

6 ай бұрын

@@TUCKALMIGHTY -But that logic also applies to Superman (Magic, Kryptonite, him holding back, etc) -Goku being a hero kinda goes out the window when he’s trying to kill Superman (hence the title Death Battle). This makes him a threat, and thus Clark’s narrative should kick in. -Clark actually has a wider array of abilities, because he can use his powerset in so many ways. His heat vision can do anything the ki blasts can do (increase in size, change direction, Omni directional bursts, etc), he can do most of the Flash’s famous tricks (phasing, turning invisible, the infinite mass punch, time travel), his bioelectric personal force field, and Torquasm Vo gives him a whole bunch of psychic abilities. -Saying Goku fights to better himself is an advantage doesn’t make sense when Superman is also constantly surpassing his vaguely defined limits to protect the people he loves. Opposite perspective, but similar results.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

- This is 100% true, the problem is that sometimes? He just straight up loses with no explanation- or the explanation given contradicts another one. Where as with Goku? He doesn't really have any anti-feats while serious (where as Superman has a few, of losing to characters who should be weaker than) - I didn't necessarily mean Goku's narrative only kicks in because he's a hero. But instead that Superman really isn't specifically fighting to get a personal W like goku would be. Like? Obviously Clark doesn't wanna die, but in an all out fight without the greater stakes of the universe on the line it's kind of hard to assume Superman's plot would just take over (or that even if it did, it would somehow overwrite Goku's own plot, which matches it.) - Clark has WAY more abilities than Goku, that are WAY more OP, but that's assuming you are using everything. Up to and including the inconsistent. Superman consistently can fly, has heat vision, freeze breath, maybe healing, and vague super senses. But everything else, barring the infinite mass punch appears in select comics, and isn't really frequently pulled upon (and or is actively contradicted by not being used, like phasing/time travel/torquasm rao) Though yes, if you grant clark all of that, he has a more kitted out arsenal. On average though, Goku has a slight bit more versatility (with Kaioken, Destructo disk, Solar flare, Multiform, ki blasts, ultra instinct, hakai, mafuba, spirit bomb, etc...) - All I meant by this, is that Goku's narrative should always be in full effect. Since this is literally his life goal, as opposed to Superman, who as you said. Only really gets stronger, for the sake of protecting either the ideal he stands for, or his friends. (Which, either means both have narrative- or? In a setting where losing just meant taking the L, or where Goku surpasses superman's ideal to the writer, Superman man not have those narrative amps to begin with.)

@glenroyhodge5892

6 ай бұрын

​@@TUCKALMIGHTYeverything you say is bull shit i see someone have read infinite Fortier which can debunk everything you just say ok you take some of those statements out of context and trying to manipulate the narrative to fit you biss towards Goku dude let's me tell you something about consistent ok superman has more universe feats then planet feats superman has more multiverse feats then planet level feats superman has more high hyeperversal level feats then planet level feats superman has more outerversal feats then planet level feats superman has more high outerversal feats then planet level feats superman i can Go on and on you who some nube who don't know anything about scaling ok tell me how much universe feats Goku have or how much multiverse feats Goku have or how much high hyeperversal feats Goku have i tell you about the last one none ok because Goku cosmology doesn't get pass 5d or 6d for sure before putting out false information do some research please

@thathero5953

6 ай бұрын

@@TUCKALMIGHTY -But if Goku has less anti feats due to having less material, shouldn’t his anti-feats be viewed with harsher scrutiny to even things out? At least when you discuss peak potential, the unfairness is not on the debater. -When you look at the most powerful showings of other JL members, you’d see that they are plenty powerful too (such as Hal Jordan battling his Parallax self, Flash resetting the multiverse god only knows how many times, Wonder Woman breaking a staff made to contain the wave that threatens the multiverse, etc). In contrast, Goku’s friends/foesand foes mostly just watch him and sometimes Vegeta fight, rarely achieving their own feats of power. -Goku’s techniques are mostly just energy blasts with similar functions. He wouldn’t use teleportation outside of evading attacks, he forgets he has telekinesis (which Superman also has to an extent), power boosts that massively tax his stamina and get evened out by Clark’s more constant power boost methods, and various hax that’ll amount to nothing because Supes has resisted all of them. -You could easily say Clark could think of Lois, Jonathan, Jimmy, Bruce, Diana, or anyone else during the battle to give him the inspiration he needs for a narrative boost. (Like Wally did with Sonic) -Goku finding the strength within himself to do the impossible is a moot point because Superman does the same thing.

This is fax. The fanboys who made debunks are in denial that superman slams.

This debate is never going to end

Thank you, ive been saying this for years. If you accept all outliers for supes, hes unbeatable. But a consistent superman is not unbeatable. And a consistent superman is the one in the comics.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

100% agree with this, I don't know why more people aren't on this train. Comic superman is a powerhouse, who everyone knows and loves. Where as outlier supes is an unbeatable author insert, a walking plot device. Two completely different levels of opponent for Goku to go up against.

@Xion4245

6 ай бұрын

Exactly how do you beat hypothetical combination of several Supermen

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

It depends on the version. A true composite Superman? (Featuring people like Cosmic Armor, Milkman Superman, Strange Visitor, Etc…) Would likely be at the peak of fiction. Basically only below characters who can become the writer- with pure toon Force. Like? Bugs Bunny, Mickey Mouse with his thinner (which is probably the strongest Hax I know of in existence), Popeye with spinach? But even weaker toon Force users like SpongeBob- would be debatable to some people (depending on how you interpret his page from the reality book thing) But I’m literally talking about cartoon characters at this point lol. So? Basically- you’d need to be above fiction in some regard to get a definitive win. PS. If you’re using composite CANON Superman, not composite all forms? Then he should lose to people like the Cosmic Armor Superman- or other characters? Who can perceive/effect concepts outside their story. Since he’s Multi-Versal to Outerversal basically.

@TheUnseenPath

6 ай бұрын

A consistent Goku is not unbeatable either and accept his outliers he's unbeatable too. The guy has a new form every other week, lol. To anyone else he's OP. Remember Darkseid beat Superman that sneezed away planets.

@nuclearwaste2062

6 ай бұрын

@@TheUnseenPath no one claims goku is unbeatable. And people already ignore goku's outliers. A new form is not an outlier. Thats literally part of his canon and shows up even outside of his canon. Goku's canon (dbs anime and manga) has 1 main writer. And everything goes through that writer. Either through outlines or his direct overview. So contradictions are minimum. And what contradictions do exist we create seperate canons. (Dbs anime and manga). And currently the anime and manga have been lining up movie wise. Manga and comics just aren't written the same. So using the same metrics to gauge them is also wrong.

Wow. Nicely done, man. I think you presented a very logical, well reasoned and articulated case.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

I'm glad you think so man. Hope you enjoyed it, and that you might stick around for whatever we've got next!

@ericmadsen7470

5 ай бұрын

It all boils down to the writers and what the writers will do to each fictional character. Since Superman has had several writers throughout the years and Goku only having the same writer since the first DragonBall series, you can say Goku has been constant with the same writer while Superman has been inconsistent because having several since the days Jerry Seigel snd Joe Schuster. What draws me more towards Superman is not because he is the most powerful being on earth it is because of the way he represents the best of humanity being raised by Jonathan and Martha Kent and the moral values they both instilled in him growing up. While Goku who was sent to earth to destroy it, he fell down into a canyon and got knocked on the head and was completely changed and thanks to a little help from Grandpa Gohan teaching Goku not just martial arts but the importance of being a hero when the time came. I like both characters and as far as I'm concerned, they are both ready to help the helpless and defend the defenseless even at the cost of their own lives.

I think this whole debate comes to a matter of perspective. In the Death Battle episode, they themselves have stated that fiction as a whole relies on interpretation. For example, people in the VS Battles Wiki community interpret characters by consistency and try to be as conservative as possible. Well, not just VSBW, other people do this too, but basically conservatives and middle grounds and consistency to them are key. An example of this would be Mario universe. Consistently, characters in that verse have much more feats around the Building to Island level range, coming from many calcs and feats the entire verse has shown. Mario has some cosmic feats and even greater, but because they are, by comparison, fewer than the lower end calcs and feats, they do not count. That is why Mario is only at Island level in the VS Battles Wiki right now. Yes, Mario has quite a bit of cosmic feats, but in the eyes of the VS Battles Staff, they have much more lower end feats. Consistency and being conservative. Now let us look at the other side; Death Battle’s way of interpreting feats. For Death Battle, they themselves admitted in the actual Goku vs Superman 2023 episode that they take the characters at their best and peak. Which means that they literally looked at all of Superman’s best feats (also Goku’s since they do it for all characters) across all of his comics, and that is why he has Multiverse+ to even Outerversal feats (if we go by cosmology) in the Death Battle, such as the World Forger feat. They acknowledge the lower end feats, but to Death Battle, what is most important is how powerful they are at their peak and best. To them, lower end feats are moreso “complimentary feats” or as I like to call them, “bit feats”. Goku has these too in the Death Battle. They brought up him scaling to Jiren who shook the World of Void, but compared to what feats they brought up for DB Heroes, that’s a bit feat. The approach Death Battle chooses in analyzing feats and “outliers” are very different from something like how VS Battles Wiki or other power-scaling communities view stats. For the “consistency” crowd, they moreso look at what feats are the most numerous and mathematically consistent. For the Death Battle crowd, they look at the characters’ peaks and compare those peaks to each other. Now, is one more “correct” than the other? Well even in math, Outliers are a real thing. Outliers are important in statistical analysis because they can provide insights into rare events or phenomena. However, they can also distort statistical measures such as mean and standard deviation and could indicate errors in data collection or entry. In math, are Outliers always treated as errors or just flat out false and shouldn’t ever be considered? Not always. Yes, outliers can sometimes be the result of errors, but they can also represent valid data points for rarer events. Consistency Crowd looks at the most consistency and are conservative. Death Battle Crowd/Peak Crowd looks at everything, even if some results are outliers, because they look at the highest results. Is one “more correct than the other”? Not really, I think. Because fiction as a whole relies in interpretation, this whole hobby does. Unlike fact, fiction can be bent and shaped and as a medium, fundamentally relies on interpretation. Powerscaling is subjective, of course, but we do this hobby for fun. We like to look at characters we like doing cool feats, and we are all nerds having fun and categorizing and indexing these feats. Now, as for me, I personally am on the side of the “Death Battle crowd”, or I should say the “Peak crowd”. I am not saying the “Consistency Crowd” is wrong, but for me, I just think that looking at characters at their peak and best is more fun to me. Sure, maybe Mario is consistently only Wall level. But when I see those rare feats of him slamming castles into the air and even fighting Universal beings, those to me stand out. Powerscaling/VS Debating should be fun and should be a hobby. We shouldn’t attack others over it, just have fun. And if people disagree with what you or me say, that’s fine. Again, fiction as a whole relies on how we interpret things, and thus powerscaling is subjective. Have fun, do good, and watch your fave characters do cool stuff. But hey, I could be totally wrong and just spewing nonsense and people will be ready to debunk me anytime. That’s totally fine. I just love Superman and Goku, seeing them fight would be awesome. Though I must admit I prefer Superman a tiny bit, heh. Peace!

@julianmcmurray7734

5 күн бұрын

Not refuting anything at all dont worry However *put mario and luigi together and they can beat anybody*

Awesome video, I really enjoyed the narrative analysis section! This is a super complex and thematic fight and ofc I can't go into everything here but I'll leave my thoughts brief. Without insane outliers or shenanigans, I agree that Goku wins. Him almost destroying Universe 7 is a 5D feat considering he is called super-dimensional compared to several 4D time-spaces in Battle of Gods. He beats Jiren and Hit who can skip/are above time. He shook an infinite void without time or space. He moved in a place where time didn't exist. His feats are just as crazy as Superman's and he's just a better fighter overall. If you do use outliers, Superman gets a big edge, but you can still make arguments for Goku depending on how you look at the databooks and guides. But Superman has so many crazy feats like breaking infinity and beating the monitors that his chances of winning go up regardless lol. They both can be scaled to Outerversal if you give them their best stuff but Superman just has such a long history that he has a lot more feats to go off of. If you actually composite them? Actually, I think determining a winner becomes almost impossible. While yes, Superman is fighting Outerversal and Conceptual beings, Goku could destroy the afterlife which has decent arguments for being Outerversal itself. Composite Goku also beat Demigra and Mechikabura who were above time and space as well as threatening a world that viewed Dragon Ball as fiction. He also beat Prometheus who views all of Shonen Jump as Fiction and he even beat God Broly who was going to kill the actual audience by fusing with the audience. I could go on and on for either but you get the idea lol. And also ngl, End of Buu Saga SSJ3 Goku > Ultimate Gohan, Goku grew stronger after he made that statement and his battle with Kid Buu is called the battle of the strongest, as well as Goku in Super Buu's body beating a copy of Gohan who is equal to the actual Gohan as stated in the databooks. Gohan did become stronger than Goku for a time but by the End of the Buu Saga, Goku was above him again.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

@Limbo9993 Always glad to see you dropping comments man. And it's good to know someone besides me, digs the narrative analysis for these more complex fights. Tbh thouhg? I pretty much agree with most of what you said here. Goku being able to threaten 4D or Potentially 5D structures in base. With speeds far above time, and more 4D/5D feats to back it with Zamasu and World of Void scaling? His power level at this point is just too close to superman- to argue against him consistently. Outlier though, I completely disagree to some extent. Because even you straight up say Goku is an outerversal being, with neigh infinite combat skill, who can fight gag characters. Using their best feats in canon materials-- Superman still literally just looks at Goku one time, knows his whole life story- then beats Goku up in negative seconds, since he has way more broken abilities than Goku, as well as that beyond infinite/immeasurable speed scaling as well. And if you composite them, while including things like 4D movie Goku, or Jump Force Goku. There isn't that much reason why you couldn't do the same thing for clark. Who has forms like milkman superman, Cosmic armor, and other elseworld iterations? Which are just infinitely more broken then regular clark kent. So as much as I like GOAT-KU unless you're using straight up meme Drip Goku, or something- Supes with outliers is cooking him. Also--- It's so sad limbo, I thought you were among the reading ones, lol. But in all seriousness, the only arguments for Ssj 3 Goku > Ultimate Gohan are really inconsistent, and exclusively come from anime filler and guide books, where he fights clone-han, and his battle is called "the strongest" But if you activate your neurons for a bit (or only read the manga lol) Goku says he can't beat super buu, says he's weaker than Gotenks, says Gohan COULD beat Buu-iccolo, and Vegito is considered 100% mandatory to fight off Buuhan. Where as they literally say Kid Buu lost all of his fusion power, making fusing against him unfair. So yeah, they say it- a BUNCH of times, and it's sort of Gohan's whole narrative to be the strongest of the Z fights (even in the modern era with the super hero movie, with Toryiama actively wanting/trying to make & keep him the strongest.) Thanks again for your comment though, and hope you enjoy all the stuff left to come!

@limbo9993

6 ай бұрын

@@TUCKALMIGHTY No I agree that in terms of abilities, Outlier Superman has better ones. I was just saying that Outlier/Highball Goku can be scaled to relatively similar levels of AP and Speed if you use the highest interpretation of the Otherworld (Outerversal) because then they would both be layers into Outer with Irrelevant Speed. But no I agree that Superman likely wins because of his abilities. But as I said with actual composite, they both do the same things. Cosmic Armor Superman beat an Outerversal being and could see the audience? Goku beat up someone who could kill the audeince. They both beat up Outerversal People and have a lot of hax. They both have plot manip and a bunch of other things, but I think that saying that Superman autowins because he has these feats that Comp Goku also scales to doesn't really make much sense. The hax things like Heroes gives Goku is pretty much everything Superman can do. I read the manga, but I also read the guidebook that calls Kid Buu Fight Goku and Kid Buu the strongest, meaning that Goku got stronger after he made the statement. The guidebooks also call SSJ3 unparalleled and the strongest in the universe by the end of the arc. Goku says that he would lose to Super Buu, but when he says this, he and Vegeta are in their shrunken state. Goku goes on to go back to normal size after this and then is called strongest. The Guidebooks are canon to the manga so End of Buu Saga Goku > Gohan > Beginning of Buu Saga Goku. Gohan just gets powercliffed... in the same arc... does it make sense? No. Did it happen? Yes. Poor Gohan 😭

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

I kind of disagree with everything in this comment, mainly in the sense that I don't really think you can highball Goku into both Outerversal- and Irrelvant speed. Since it's just sort of unreasonable Goku overhype, to call otherworld outerversal- when outerversal implies something beyond the multiverse (which we know heaven/otherworld/hell are not, since they only have universe seven fighters) So I think even a highballed hyperversal/5D+ Goku gets stomped in stats. But I also think it's a weird idea to suggest that composite Goku could do anything to Superman? Because, as we both said-- they have similarly infinite/boundless stats at that point. Except Superman has literally a million times more feats and powers. That a composite Goku doesn't just scale to via stats. The infinite intelligence thing, clones, toon force, outerversal reality manipulation, etc... I think it's way more consistent to say, that rather than composite Goku being given pretty much anything superman can do? You can just look at it from the other side, and say Superman counters everything Goku has, with even more hax/abilities to boot. Also? About the Gohan thing. I really don't even think this is debatable. Just taking a guide book or two, with a vague anime statement and saying it's canon? Over all the things we see in the actual manga. Is just kind of ridiculous to me. Kid Buu has zero feats, statement, hype, or lore within the actual context of the story (without outside sources) to be over buuhan. And even if you use the anime, Goku tries to fight superbuu in Ssj3, gets whipped- then needs to fuse with vegeta to survive (so it's not even inconsistent in the anime timeline) So yeah, the whole power cliffing thing has zero basis in the manga. Not a single feat or statement to really support it, and suggesting that it's true would imply SSJ 2/3 Goku > SSJ Vegito from like- ten minutes prior. Who is often also called the "strongest" in guide books. Sort of further invalidating it. Either way though, no shade. Just think Ultimate Gohan gets slept on way too much, in this post Z era.

@limbo9993

6 ай бұрын

@@TUCKALMIGHTY To explain the Otherworld, it’s claimed to be beyond the concept of time and dimensions which would make it Outer. Something doesn’t have to be beyond the Multiverse to be Outer because Multiverse as a term is subjective, all that would mean is that one Universe in DB is Outer and Goku being beyond the concept of time would make his Speed Irrelevant. It might not be the most consistent or sensible thing ever but we’re using highball/outliers here lol. It’s a highball but it’s not completely inconceivable, and a KZreadr named Drip Sauce explains it better than I ever could lol. I’m not saying that outlier Goku wins, just that in terms of physical prowess, he can arguably compare. But in terms of Composites? Specifically abilities, Goku kind of can do those thing? If you give him heroes he has time manip, reality manip, high godly conceptual regen, conceptual sealing, stamina reduction, probability manip, concept manip, etc - and if you give him God Fusion then he has plot manip, and Superman’s ability to change how the story is written wouldn’t matter to someone who can defeat people outside of the story. Things like Infinite Clones and Infinite Intelligence don’t really matter either when Goku has access to summonings who know everything throughout all of history and can just wish for clones if he wanted to, or seal them with the Key Sword. Superman’s hax either are things that Goku can counter or things that don’t really do much to him, like the IQ thing even - knowing everything about Goku won’t help when Goku can regenerate from conceptual existence erasure or whatever the case may be. Even toon force is something Goku has encountered before and scales above tbh. I just think they realistically fight to a draw because they pretty much have the same everything and the minor differences they have don’t really mean much. And to briefly touch on Goku vs Gohan, I think there is actually a decent narrative behind it. For instance, they could have wished for Gohan to arrive to fight Kid Buu instead of betting on Goku, but they didn’t. All of Gohan’s statements are made in present tense during the Super Buu fight, and Goku has multiple statements as well Goku is called the strongest but that wouldn’t put him above Vegito because the databook calls Goku’s Ki the strongest in the universe, but Vegito wouldn’t be in the Universe at the moment so he wouldn’t count. I mean, if you don’t wanna use the guidebooks then I could see why people think Gohan is stronger, but I think that with they context the provide, End of Buu Saga Goku is stronger, at least in my opinion. It’s fine if we disagree tho because it really just depends on how much you wanna value the guidebooks lol.

Depends on which versions of Superman actually. Goku does beat most versions of superman and Death Battle has even admitted it

I 100% agree with your take on comic book inconsistencies. For example on one comic, Superman is shown benching the weight of the Earth for 5 days straight. Whereas in a another comic, Superman is needing the help from Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter to pull the weight of the Earth. A lot of people tend to explain this by saying that Superman 'holds himself back all the time'. While it is true that Superman holds himself back to an extent, it also depends on the threat level. If the threat level is extreme, then Superman will stop holding himself back. But that does not mainly explain Superman's inconsistencies. It's mainly got to do with the fact that Superman is a solar battery. Superman can absorb an unlimited amount of solar energy, but when he releases that energy in the form of attacks, the energy that flows through him will drain. Like any other battery. Superman's power levels don't really stay at a moderate level. They're either ridiculously strong, or immensely weak. Because it depends on the amount of solar energy he has in him.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

I kind of like this explanation for Superman’s inconsistencies quite a bit. But even if I do, the problems with it, basically come down to the fact that almost EVERY DC character I’d unfortunately equally as consistent. Even featuring characters who would never Hold back, like Doomsday, or Darkseid. So while it’s a fun canon explanation to help make the stories better for readers. I don’t think it really justified throwing all the low ends out, if that makes sense.

I think one wrinkle when it comes to a "consistent" Superman that you lightly touched on but didn't go in-depth with is simply: Between not knowing his upper limits, often holding back to avoid or minimise collateral, and canonically having a variable amount of power based on solar energy, Superman has three separate methods available to explain anything that contradicts the higher end feats he has access too. Not to say that there isn't any showing of weakness that involves Superman not holding back, knowing his limits, and having an above average amount of solar energy at the same time; but rather that having to bypass all three barriers in order to truly prove that an anti-feat doesn't have a legitimate in-universe explanation means that the skew of averages swings a lot closer in favour of those extreme high end feats. ... There's also the fact that, in general, it's bad faith to argue against a feat due to those previously mentioned anti-feats, since by that logic you can pile on as many anti-feats as you want to try and drag a character down. Full disclosure: I am someone who prefers going for the high-end feats, and generally do not like dismissing a feat as an outlier, as those outliers still in fact happened - I usually only point it out if it's actively self-contradictory in a way that cannot be ignored (such as, for example, Sonic the Hedgehog's feats that scale him to his own Super Form, something which completely messes with the whole reason to have a Super Form in the first place).

@paselitoru

5 ай бұрын

Don't bother typing anything coherent or intelligent this guy is a DBZtard diguised as a non biased person. He literally saying Goku is consitantly stronger when Goku be getting dogwalked by his own people solo and sometimes with help too. Buu, Frieza, Cell, Raditz, Vegeta, Jiren, Random Henchmen with lazer gun that one time. Superman takes L's too but when Superman reaches his peak he rarely does. Since the DC comics go on cycles (Crisis) they have to restart and when they do he becomes weak again for a bit and thus people go "Oh look at that one time Superman took an L when he had to restart."

I liked the video detailing Fight scenarios as a whole, but i think the whole point of taking characters at their strongest, is cause its simple and straightforward (relatively speaking). Just cause of that. Whole discussions are definitely warranted about the strengths/weaknesses/inconsistencies of characters but in a matchup like this having characters "Go all out" is the simplest and probably the most effective way to gauge a who would win scenario. Yes superman has inconsistencies and so does goku at times, but in a completely pragmatic sense the peak feats comparison is the best we'll get at a definitive answer without bogging down a conversation with what if scenarios revolving around weak moments and inconsistencies.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

I don't disagree at all with the characters "going all out" in any context. It's definitely the best way to get a correct answer. However? I feel like you have to be careful, as to what feats you consider as logically "all out" because- as this video suggests, just saying Superman is infinitely strong by using all his outliers at once? Is the same as calling batman infinite for hitting the spectre, and tagging the reverse flash. I personally find it way more reasonable, to look at what Goku and Superman can consistently do when going all out-- seeing as both have clearly lost, struggled, and been defeated during their comic runs. As opposed to ignoring all of that, and just asking who's more infinite? All my opinion though, it's perfectly fine for someone to lean more into that other camp, of preferring the use of only high ends.

@paselitoru

5 ай бұрын

@@TUCKALMIGHTY Again his high end feats aren't outliers because they are constant for his end story abilities. If Goku had a reset and then had to regain all his abilities and that meant he kept getting dogwalked until he became strong again would you say that Goku is now consistently weaker? If not then you're a liar and a disingenuous asshole. If so then you're delusional like you are with Superman.

And a major fact for supermam they pick all of his version and it's feats only in simple a composite superman . While for goku they pick only two projects of it manga and anime not from his other projects.

Super is cannon now so it is definitely inconsistent. Akira forgets a lot of his story lines and he has retconned power scaling too where it shouldn't have happened in the first place like Krillin fighting Goku blue for example or the aura thing where the bodies become weak. It's cannon because it's now THE cannon. There is Zeno Goku and he gets more and more forms that make him inconsistent because it's getting more and more ridiculous. Power levels were also inconsistent.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

Hard disagree with this comment. Super is reasonably consistent, just kind of stupid. Akira does forget storylines as well- but not usually generally power progression. As we see for example, Goku uses his blue form? To fight everyone before the tournament (besides Buu) and in the case of Krillin, he specifically goes "all out" to hype him up- because Krillin was sad and demoralized about being out of shape. So no, I don't think Goku cheering up his buddy, is at all inconsistent. (But Xeno Goku is inconsistent, since he's a video game character.)

@TheUnseenPath

6 ай бұрын

@@TUCKALMIGHTY I have to disagree because Blue form is still above Krillin's limits he could have just used base form since Goku is much more powerful at that state. it's why when a saiyan is getting beaten in base form they turn to super form to help them out implying that it's hard to tone down because it's the next step up. It is inconsistent because 17 should not be as strong as he is now from Z. Gohan and Piccolo are now more powerful because Superhero demanded it to be. Power progression has never been consistent with DB like power levels for example. Blowing up a planet is nothing special now as you need a PL of 10k to do it (which is trash by super's standards). Also the rock thing in DBZ with Goku sleeping and Krillin hitting him is an example of inconsistency, getting injured by the blasters and Whis telling them that their auras make them strong in the manga is an example of inconsistency. I have never looked to DB as "consistent" it's a great show but there are more better story driven animes out there to watch that make more sense. DB is more spectacle.

@TheUnseenPath

6 ай бұрын

@@TUCKALMIGHTY Great video and you make awesome points! :D You have a subscriber because you seem like a genuine fellow!

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

Goku can be holding back, while still using his full power. The scene was all about trying to make Krillin feel better- because he's Goku's friend. We literally saw base Goku one punch him- like? A few episodes prior for that reason. And I'm not saying that the writing isn't stupid. But Dragon Ball Super power scaling is consistent. Android 17 is Blue level. Even if that happened for a stupid reason? We can both agree, that's were he scales- since that's not contradicted anywhere. Something thing with Super hero. Power progression is simply not the same as power scaling, and? If you could imagine- planet level is definitely still fodder to people who are universal, so it checks out a bit.

@TheUnseenPath

6 ай бұрын

@@TUCKALMIGHTY Besides, Goku smacks down other anime protags he's a superman to anime and Goku fits the same mold as what the author needs which is why he lost to cell.

It's just this: Superman is as strong as he needs to be. He's supposed to be the embodiment of hope. He is meant to do the impossible when absolutely necessary. We can cherry-pick all we want when it comes to the inconsistencies of these outlier feats that tend to put Superman above and beyond, but then we would have to do the same for Goku. You can argue that Superman loses in one instance over something seemingly weak like a kryptonite rock, but we can't just ignore the feats that he pulled off either. Same thing wiht Goku, can we really assume that Goku is capable of destroying a universe, even though only a weak planet was destroyed and the vibrations that Earth was feeling, should've destroyed them. If Goku and Vegeta are on par with one another, why is it that Vegeta can't survive a planetary explosion. Can we trust what the kais are saying, especially when there have been multiple occasions where they have been mistaken by the Z Sword, Potara Earrings, and catastrophic assumptions? This becomes an endless cycle of nitpicking. This is why the outliers are included and we give both characters the benefit of the doubt. I disagreed with Death Battle when they gave Goku that universal feat, but I said "Hey, you giving that to Goku? You got to do the same for Superman." If you want a better explanation of Superman and his feats, its probably best to check out "The Story of Superman" power, that is mentioned in the comics and from certain youtubers. It has a better explanation as to why Superman is as powerful as he is. Overall, I think Death Battle still got the answer correct & Superman is still 3-0.

Outliers are why I don't particularly appreciate how Death Battle portrays Goku's and Superman's feats. They will add all of Superman's strongest feats to create a composite character against a consistent character with little outliers like Goku. That's where I disagree with them because all those outliers make the fight more biased than it should be.

I disagree Superman is only so inconcistent, because he has so much material.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

I don't really agree with this take, since he's inconsistent even within his own continuities (such as new-52) I do think having more feats, makes it more likely for you to become inconsistent. But even Modern supermen, who are disconnected from their past feats- are often subject to massively varying power levels.

@paselitoru

5 ай бұрын

Yeah but if you add up all his higher feats this guy will still say they are all outliers despite the numerous amount of high end feats. He is a DBZtard.

I like your breakdown but the only thing I had trouble list of Superman's supposedly inconsistencies 14:07 the first one with Hawkman pounding Superman with the glove I mean Superman got right back if I remember correctly it never really hurt him it just was able to push him away. Getting hit with a planet is still massively impressive. Also I am getting knocked out by that Moon that you pointed out that's because he was performing the infinite Mass punch a move done by most speedsters like the Flash. Plus that's not your normal Moon that was not only a moon that's much larger than our normal moon but it was far more durable, and the the infinite Mass punch is a move that now only cause massive environmental destruction, the destruction can do immense harm to the users. the reason why I never hurts the flash people because they have the speed force protecting them. Also that whole Clark's punch only being able to destroy a small planet which he can do it was just him not exaggerating enough of how hard he can really hit. And you do wear your bringing different variations of Superman right? And last I checked that nuke had some Kryptonite inside of it. 15:35 Also it's worth noticing that that Superman breaking the bounds of infinity is a massive outlier that's why you don't pay attention to someone's high showing you pay attention to their consistent showing. And as for Specter which is pretty obvious Superman is not among his levels so it's logical why Superman he can't fight the specter. It would be like Goku trying to fight Zeno where he's currently at. 16:34 I mean of course Superman has struggled in fights and lost and died before I mean he's not Invincible as most people try to portray him he's fighting people who are among his power or even stronger than him. It is easy to power skill comic book characters you just got to pay attention to their consistent showing and not their High showing AKA outliers. I mean Goku has his inconsistencies as well especially in Dragon Ball super. Like Dragon Ball super could not keep up with his power scaling as well because we're seeing characters fighting characters who they should be one shot and not should be keeping up with

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

I don't really disagree with anything you said here. All the examples you're pointing out in the time stamps, are basically me agreeing- that superman has little, to no consistency. In terms of the sort of things he can actually do. Yes, you can explain or justify any number of feats that happen on the panels- with certain leaps in logic. (Such as saying casual superman is small planet level, and that his full power is much higher, which is fine.) But my issue with comics consistency, vs manga is that you get a variety of those outliers/statements- which are vague or outright contradict each other. Like superman getting knocked out by the infinite mass punch, in the shadow moon clip (which is just as big as our regular moon, as far as I'm aware) but then Superman handling his own infinite mass punch just fine later. Or even statements like who can beat superman within the JLA (sometimes people like wonder woman, shazam, or martain manhunter can pull it off- other times? They can't.) Either way though, you understood that the whole point I was to say, is that Superman isn't immortal or invincible. Both he and Goku should logically have weaknesses, and limits. And as long as I got that across, then it's fine if you disagree with parts or examples used here or there. Hope you enjoy whatever additional content we make in the future, and I appreciate the well thought out comment!

@abhijeetgolder7535

6 ай бұрын

@@TUCKALMIGHTY supermam grows with Stellar energy types Goku grow with life and deat experience .

@sharavy6851

6 ай бұрын

​@@abhijeetgolder7535Solar energy*

@abhijeetgolder7535

6 ай бұрын

@@sharavy6851 stellar energy. Bro supermam can absorb any kind of stellar energy and power he gain varies on that. And pepole assume he have energy absorption.

Bro your good. Edit: I said you good at the beginning of the vid but bro you were magnificent

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

Appreciate it man, hope you’ll stick around to see whatever is next!

@eazy2rememberr

6 ай бұрын

I subbed

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

Absolutely GOATED comment.

So in the death batte that is coming between these two, they are using a composite Goku due to them using Infinite Frontier Superman who is every main line Superman ever.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

Tbh? I probably should've mentioned it in the video, but IMO? Even if you use composite Goku, he still probably gets cooked by a composite outlier superman. He just has less abilities, feats, and general scaling.

@romanratliff8818

6 ай бұрын

@@TUCKALMIGHTYactually, assuming by comp goku in this case is basically just including CC and Xeno Goku (basically just giving him his heroes feats) it depends. If it’s the Heroes *Anime*, Superman should be fine. But if this takes the game into consideration? (As they did in Xeno Trunks vs Archie Silver) Even base Goku should be easily into that outerversal range the god tier superman’s are, if not outright Boundless.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

I mean? I sort of agree that a version of COMP goku which includes CC, Xeno, Heroes and Jump Force Goku. Should basically be equal to any and all supermen that are calculable. But the only problem with that, is that COMP Superman has WAY more hax and broken abilities to fall back on, that would give him the win. He should literally be smart enough to see Goku one time, and know his whole life story- as well as all of his powers. And at that point? Since they'd both be outerversal/boundless? Superman wins by having more hax IG lol. Unless Xeno Goku got more feats since I last checked.

@romanratliff8818

6 ай бұрын

@@TUCKALMIGHTY You’re absolutely right on superman’s higher IQ, however (unless I’m missing anything) I don’t believe any version of him reaches boundless, however there are multiple arguments for a DBH Goku to get there using the game (but ONLY the game) The potential entire conceptual layer of power between them, along with both being having irrelevant speed, it would be unlikely that any of Superman’s Hax actually land (Ps: This is hypothetical, but couldn’t this Goku probably give himself Supe’s hax? This would include GT due to Xeno Goku being from GT originally, which could give him the ability to grant wishes to himself. I’ve seen a few people say this and I thought it would be an interesting thought)

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

If you're counting like, literally every superman? Then Cosmic Armor killed an outerversal character, and Milkman Superman literally beats up the writers if he wants to. If you're just using main continuity though? It all comes down to scaling (or if you chose to include elseworld tales, like prime 1 million/strange visitor/etc...) As for hax? If they both have irrelevant speed and time manip. Then it would basically be two equals fighting, in which case- superman basically spams reality manipulation and toonforce esc stuff? Until Goku disappears. (And in regards to the hypothetical, as far as I'm aware- the end of GT Goku having access to infinite wishing- is as far as I know, never confirmed. As well as being something Goku would 100% not do in character. Ignoring the fact that the dragon he fused with- should still be limited to the power level and abilities of Dende (who made him). So? At best he's got some immortality- that Superman could hax his way out of.)

No matter who won, nothing will take away what makes them so great in there own ways, truly GOATS.

Good video dude

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

Thanks, always appreciate it!

I like your unique take on this debate

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

I’m glad you enjoyed it! Hope you’ll stick around to see more in the future.

@Jacob1451_Kapnobatai

6 ай бұрын

​@@TUCKALMIGHTYlooking forward to it!

I love how you ignore the world forge feat to fit your narrative but I will agree with consistency being key and in that case let's revisit Goku's fights shall we? Goku got his ass handed by Raditz, Vegeta, Freiza, Cell, Buu, Jiren all solo. Each fight he won he had help. So who is helping Goku take down Superman? If you value consistency at least be honest about it and not just cherry pick. Thanks for reading and have a nice day.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

I don't think you really understood the point of what I was saying. I ignored the world forge feat, cause it was kind of irrelevant- just serving as another example of "Here is superman being stronger than everyone, when he isn't consistently portrayed to be." It's a good feat by all regards though? Death Battle called it "sixth dimensional" though I think saying Multiversal is fine? Which, by proxy- Goku has feats, of a similar Multiversal scale, which I point out in the video. But your point about "consistency" is silly, and counter productive. Because it sort of proves my point. Goku is consistently getting stronger, to such an extent? That we know he wouldn't struggle in those fights in more (because the narrative, shows Goku's power going up, and never backwards) where as? The same doomsday who beat Superman in Death of Superman, could arguably do it again. Based on who's writing. It's not cherry picking to say a linear narrative, is more consistent in it's progression, than a bunch of narratives crossing over.

@paselitoru

6 ай бұрын

@@TUCKALMIGHTY Bro nice dismissal but even when Goku gets stronger he still struggles to win on his own. Even when fighting Moro he had Vegeta on his side. Please stop kidding yourself. Also DC universe is way bigger than DBZ universe so when Superman has multiversal feats it is way more impressive than Goku's and you know that. Stop lying and trying to Fan Wank him. Also The world forge was a 6th dimensional being hence why they listed him as that. They didn't say Superman was 6th dimensional.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

I'm a little confused by what you mean? His story obviously isn't about defeating people 1v1 with absolute power? Neither is Superman. And, he did 1v1 Jiren- Hit- and Fused Zamasu in the manga. With only plot intervention stopping him from getting the W. DC Universe being way bigger than DBZ universe is also a silly argument, when both places are literally just stated infinite in size. It's literally a complete fan calc nonsense to assume one is massive and the other is not- because of pixel scaling. And I never claimed they called superman sixth dimensional, but the world forger and his feats were called that. As you said.

@paselitoru

6 ай бұрын

@@TUCKALMIGHTY Actually the universe isn't infinite you would know that had you did a lick of research. Also his feat wasn't called 6th dimensional unless you were talking to a mouth drooler or superman fanboy. Lastly you said Goku showed consistent strength and what not but he got clapped by a lazer in main canon when he has a continuous growth in power and not random writers deciding his fate. Explain that? Universes have observable edges in DC it's a source wall. Unless you trying to fan wank Goku into being infinite with his Beerus punch?

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

"The infinitely expanding universe is determined mainly by the direction that each king manages, and the place managed by the king is supervised by the king of the world, and the gods of the north, south, east and west Manage the universe. Ultimately, the Great King God is supposed to oversee the whole world. " "Infinitely expanding and galaxy illuminations Ten of thousands of light years... Hundreds of millions of light years... Countless unknown aliens monsters live beyond stars where light cannot reach." "The Universe The endless, expansive space wrapped around every celestial body that exists in the Living World. Along with the Demon Realm it is a single, large world in the Living World. In the world of Dragon Ball, the universe is located beneath the World Beyond, and it is hermetically sealed by a barrier that is engraved with a strange design. Within the universe, there are nebulae composed of innumerable stars, and there are "galaxies" composed of innumerable nebulae. There is a ruling Kami for each galaxy. Earth resides in the Solar System, a galactic nebula on the outskirts of the North Galaxy." Three seperate statements of infinite universe in Dragon Ball, with the last one coming from the Toriyama approved Diazenshu. While ignoring the other higher constructs- such as the after life, which Goku was shaking. World Forger was called 6th dimension, in the direct context of talking about his multiversal feats. So? Unless you're just sort of absorbing the words they say- instead of actually processing them. Death Battle highly implies Superman is 6D. The laser is a part of Goku's narrative, in super? Where he is known for completely dropping his guard and holding back. Which we have seen countless times nerfs him a lot (against a laser, that is unquantifiable at that.) It's the only "anti-feat" anyone ever points to, because it's basically the only one he has? And- as you'd guess- it's explained why it happens, before and after it occurs. Universes in DC's can have edges, because their are layers to infinity- which we even see in some panels when the source is shown. Because it is an outerversal construct- surrounding the entire multiverse.

Great vid, amazing explination, clear answers, and actual thought placed into the debate. Perfectly explains what ive been saying for years... As soon as Goku got God i was saying Goku would win in a fight when relative and reasonable. If we're using unreasonable-man, then obvs hed loose, but why enever discuss that knowing how composite superman is written... Shit, why not use composite hero goku in that case? The ones who fused with the actual fans of the real world??? Like wow yall

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

Yeah. Honestly? I’ve always thought it was weird that Superman fans tried to compound and stack countless iterations of a character. To imply someone, who’s most popular story (by sales) literally called “Death Of Superman” is somehow invincible & all powerful. So yes, I think it’s both correct- and was fun to talk about- the consistency present for both characters. So I’m glad you enjoyed it!

This was a masterful video and makes me question why you have so little subscribers. But my question is, your using the canon goku while death battle is using the dragon ball heroes goku. So what’s your take on the dragon ball heroes goku since he is basically Superman in there.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

Thanks for the comment, we always appreciate the hype. Hope the rest of our content can live up to the high praise! But as for Heroes Goku? I wasn’t aware Death Battle was planning on using him (short of mentioning the 100x Kaioken movie feat) If you use him though? Goku basically just becomes a little stronger. Heroes Goku was pretty highly implied weaker than CC Goku (in the anime spin-off) meaning he’s not like? Infinite. So- I’d Say Heroes (or Xeno & CC Goku) still wins against a regular supes, just like regular Goku. But probably loses (or ties) with an outlier Superman. Since Superman just has so many abilities and hax, as well as a century of feats (as opposed to heroes Goku? Who has had time to gather feats than canon Goku) So? Give Heroes Goku ten more years? Then maybe. But as of rn? He’d struggle with a composite Superman IMO

@sanato1301

6 ай бұрын

@@TUCKALMIGHTY yeah they stated they would use xeno goku, but they believe cc goku to be stronger which is why there going with him.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

Didn't realize lol, but yeah. It pretty much doesn't make much difference IMO. Even if Goku is being called 5D, 6D, Hyper-Versal, or whatever other scale they give him. Superman (with outliers and composite) will probably just scale above almost all concepts. Short of other else world versions of himself (Like cosmic armor, Milkman, etc...) that may have even higher scaling.

@sanato1301

6 ай бұрын

@@TUCKALMIGHTY damn, I’m fine with goku losing as long as it’s done better than their second fight and is as good as the original 😭

@mel-el5862

6 ай бұрын

​@@TUCKALMIGHTYteam Superman no matter what. Let's do this guys

yeah this is why people think goku wins basically dismiss supes because of the so many different versions, you can't dismiss superman feats as inconsistencies but ignore the same for goku, example a laser nearly killing him as ssb , bullets hurting him in base, getting tagged by much slower people, etc so many more. you can't have anti feats for one side and not the other its bias. i don't like either but i have supes winning since comics just nonstop fuckery of scaling.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

Again, I can understand that sentiment toward the matchup. In my opinion though? My big problems with comic book scaling- aren't that superman has a few inconsistencies within his entire canon history. But that unlike Goku's canon- where all his inconsistencies are explained away in the story (I literally don't know a single one, that isn't) Superman? Has many feats and statements that are just directly incompatible. You combine that, with the general wackiness of non-linear progression (with Superman flucauating up and down in strength over the years) and I just think it basically makes it really unreasonable (inconsistent) to say Superman should be- like? Hyperversal? When he's still being consistently portrayed to have rivals in the JLA (wonder woman, flash, manhunter) as well as being capable of losing fights, or being pressured. If you think we should ignore contradicting evidence for Superman though? Like the times where he has lost, or been implied to have limits- then yes. He rocks Goku's whole world.

@paselitoru

5 ай бұрын

Don't bother he makes anti Superman videos that are pure BS. You should see his "How to kill Superman video" In which he lists one actual way to kill him and 9 other "Maybe" to "Not really" ways.

14:50 it says on the bottom of that comic that if that blast hit em it would incernate clark if it touched it doesnt take away your it just makes your point stand that much greater

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

This is true, but I'm pretty sure he does actually end up tanking/surviving it in the full comic- or at least? A part of it. Which, as you pointed out. Does just suggest the same point, about superman's inconsistency.

I remember when God Base-Form Goku had trouble hurting someone with an Iron Body. Zamasu only merged with one universe. A lot of Dragon Ball/Z anime filler is nonsensical and is just there to look cool and get ratings. Anime filler has King Vegeta being many times more powerful than final form Freiza and Super Saiyan Goku and Buu Saga Yamcha being many times more powerful than Super Perfect Cell, Dabura and Pre-Potential Unlock Gohan. Like with DC having too many writers leading to inconsistant depictions, the DBZ anime filler scenes are the same thing, with different writers creating vastly inconsistant or erroneous situations. They wrote what was interesting or cool, not what made sense. There are also weird instances where characters give exposition with no explination on "why" that character would know. Videl said Heaven was the same size as a Universe, but how would she know how big either of those things are? And Jiren shaking all of Void is similar. How would 18 be able to judge all of the Infinite Void was shaking? If 18 could percieve that then she'd pracitcally be omnipresent and perhaps omniscient. They had her say that because the writers needed exposition to inform the viewers. I'd say it would have made more sense if someone like Whis said it, but even the Grand Priest needs a viewing globe to see things really far away. Maybe if Xen'oh said it would have made more sense?

Great video, I need to share this to community for fair assessment of this two characters. Best part was Stan Lee's comment, off course death battle team would want comic book characters to win to create controversey and views just like how Booker in wrestling wants wrestler to win or lose to get crowds to get a reaction, its simple as that.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

Hope this video was worth the share then! I'm glad you enjoyed the stan comment as well- since it was fun to break down something, made by such a legend!

In the word of Stan he kinda just meant was that whoever wins is just bc the creator of said thing decides to, like Vegeta and Gohan, Akira Toriyama stated he didnt like Vegeta even explaining why he was never supposed to beat Goku as well as when he tried replacing Goku with Gohan, he didnt feel as if it fit him so he went back to Goku, and made Goku save the day, as such also making it as The creator deciding who wins due to his personal feeling and thought. Basically meaning it doesnt matter how much you power scale due to characters from time to time beating characters beyond there level one second but then later also being able to beaten by someone like it in actuallity. Long story short as DBZA made by TFS said so many times before "Powerlevels are bullshit" in this regards as we gling with powerscaling

who the hell edited the comic and manga fights because we gonna need whole videos on those fights that shit was hard af

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

They’re clips from across the internet, cut and cropped slightly, by me. Glad you enjoyed it!

@user-dkv43

5 ай бұрын

@@TUCKALMIGHTY thats shit fire it made the video a million time better that's true talent forreal

superman at the end of his continuities is consistently OP to the extreme so im not really sure what you are talking about him not being consistent, DC reboots its continuity and then they go through a domino effect of continued one upping their last issues until they get to a point of absolute ludicrous powerscaling and then they rinse and repeat, its so consistent that they constantly have too introduce new cosmology so that they can have a new big bad to face down.

This argument really falls apart if you look at Goku under the same scrutiny that you do with Superman. If it's about consistency, Superman has way more feats and statements just within his infinite frontiers story arc than Goku has in all of DBS. Goku has maybe a handful of legitimate feats or statements that put him above universal. We have to assume and calculate based on vague ideas like "how much stronger has this training made him" and "what's the multiplier on this new transformation". You can easily put Goku at multiversal through calcs but the vast majority of his on screen/panel feats just have him mountain busting. Not to mention all the "planet busting" ki blasts that miss only making small craters in the earth. I guess the hand wavy holding back excuse is only bullshit for Superman. Superman is very much, at his current level, infinite and boundless. It's stated outright on panel and is confirmed by the current writer. Old guide books aren't gonna debunk that anymore than outdated quotes from Akira Toriyama about the power scale between Goku, Beerus and Whis before he even started super.

I like this video but it has a few problems concerning superman. This video doesn't go over current superman at all. It doesn't even mention 2018 justice league superman. Most importantly it doesnt seem to mention that superman is the embodiment of hope at all. Current superman is in the outerversal range. I don't agree the whole batman kicking spectre thing because batman doesn't consistently kick outerversal beings. Superman on the other hand does consistent fight uni+ beings. I'm willing to explain more but overall I think this is kinda cope for Goku fans.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

This is sort of true. I didn’t go over the most modern Superman very much at all, stopping at around 2018. But that’s basically because we were using composite Superman, while calling him rebirth. And as I said- that sort of makes Rebirths own feats a bit easy to gloss over- but not to dismiss them. He’s done some wild things. Also? We have a whole section dedicated to Superman’s narrative. But it’s more than fine if you disagree with my final take. I believe Superman is consistently Uni+ with so many feats to support it, but to get him higher? Requires some serious use of inconsistency. But to be outerversal? You’d need to outscale that by so many layers of infinity. It’s insane. So I’d say current Goku & Supes are in the Uni+ to Low-Complex Multi, ranges. But you’re welcome to comment more, if that doesn’t answer your question. Thanks!

The thing that pissed me was that they didnt show more feat from heroes and They lied about supes feat a lot , didnt shoe that full comic panel where it literally said that batman helped him to get charged and said that without batman he wouldn't have won , And infinite frontier superman ain't 6d at all Even if its 6d , it wouldn't matter that even super Goku scales above it.. All in all death battle is still the as the old battle I liked your opinion this one ❤ And one more question Where do you scale both characters and COSMOLOGY?

By far Superman will beat Goku. It's fun seeing Goku achieve feats that Superman had done long ago and anime fanboys see it as Superior to Superman after watching some jl shows

Great video but i guess i fall into the camp of inconsistencies because I still think superman wins

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

Whichever camp you lean is more than fine by me, those are just my thoughts on who I think would win? And how, based on what I know about them both.

The most reasonable and realistic answer on Goku v. Superman I've heard so far. Of course there is the Seth argument, where he basically pioneered the metas on this debate, and the also conflicting Divine argument who basically put composite Goku v. composite Superman were great in their own rights, this one definitely made its own unique and honestly most realistic take on the subject.

ngl that ben vs green latern was unforgivable when ben pulled out alien x hal would have croaked instantly

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, you REALLY have to high ball (or use a stronger version of) the Green Lantern, to argue he could beat Celestial Sapien.

I stand alone in this but I like the design of New 52 superman, the belt adds more of a flare than the underwear, lol. Death Battle did have a reason for using "composite superman" (Goku was composite too manga, games, and shows) it was because there are so many versions of Supes that people would have said "Well what about THIS version of Superman" that's what they were trying to avoid. The super flare was not useless a nuke style bomb attack is a great finishing move. Keep something in mind: Superman battles gods all the time so Goku is nothing new and Goku just now got this power that Superman has had for decades now. Goku just now reached God level when Superman has been clashing with Gods that would make the Z fighters crap their pants at the sight of them. Superman has been shattering realities in the past. SuperBOY prime did it as well whereas Goku ALMOST shattered reality. I like Goku, I liked DBZ it was a staple of my childhood but I have moved from him to Superman. I used to think Goku could but now...idk anymore, really. Goku lost to Goku Black and he never mastered UI it's an incomplete stage. He "masters" it in the moros arc or rather masters the incomplete version. Idk where everyone keeps getting this "superman knock off" with Jiren from. I don't see it or the rabbit guy with Flash. Superman also has his own UI and he's getting and as you said got stronger too so this won't be an easy fight for Goku especially since Superman holds back a lot.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

I actually really like New-52’s design as well, he’s one of the more underrated supes designs. (And his story is a little better than Rebirth at least) As for composite Superman? I just meant there isn’t a “canon” excuse to use it- since it doesn’t happen in comics (but Goku was not composite in either of his fights, as he didn’t get movie/heroes feats back then) However, yes. I agree it makes sense as a big corporate show- to composite to avoid complaints. Also? Super flare was “cool” but it accomplished nothing, and basically just got New-52 killed. Making it sort of useless. At least IMO.

And for these fights . Here's a thing superman at consistency is just 4d level . Speedster in dc don't time travel with speed . They uses speed force which supe doesn't have access. Speed force creates a pathway or a for speedsterto go anywhere with in bleed . Bleed is the structure which contains all 52 universe . And speed force exist before bleed . And in comics there's a chain of events which lead to stuffs. While in goku case his ki amp temporary increase his life force and overall stats to thise levels. And main continuity Superman is seriously can't be killed within dc he is the basic foundation and soul of it .

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

I pretty much agree with most of this?? Superman is consistently Uni+ or 4D? Whatever your preference for phrasing is there. UI Goku should be on a similar level. Speedsters in DC are inconsistent, since yes? They have access to the seemingly multiversal+ construct of the speed force, which logically explains their dimension hopping. But? Then in Rebirth, we see Superman can time travel with the cosmic treadmill- or that other supermen (and even some feats for the flash) have moved backwards in time- through what is implied to be sheer speed. So-- it's decently inconsistent, but if you think speed force == time travel, then yes- superman still can't go backwards in time. As for Superman being the soul/basic foundation of the entire DC cosmology, New 52 supes and Post-Crisis have died before- so? When taking a composite superman into account (or just equalizing the fighting scenario) he should be able to lose his life in combat again. Everything else though? I pretty much agree, hope you ended up enjoying the video!

@mel-el5862

6 ай бұрын

​@@TUCKALMIGHTYhe lied in a few statements. I'll back it up juat incase. Read world's finest #2 Supergirl can casually time travel throughout all of history. Superman and batman aren't surprised by this as it's now confirmed by Philips Kennedy which is one of the current writers. In a interview states kryptonians can time travel once again. Action comics 1058 and 1059 current superman. He has a death defying force, allows him to transcend his own death and return to the world of the living.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

Are you implying that I lied in a few statements??? Either way, it seems you misconstrued what I was saying here. Superman HAS gone back in the past at multiple points in his canon, and so have other kryptonians in the past. However? Saying it’s a consistent ability for him- would be suggesting that when Bad things ever happen in DC, Superman (or others) are not just rewinding the timeline, when the power is in need of being used. And while Superman has/can come back to life in different ways after losing in the comic books. This wouldn’t stop Goku from winning a fight with him (even if you’re taking a specific continuity where he has that power-- as opposed to post-crisis & new 52, who both needed outside help to come back.) Also? Yes, with outliers. Supes wins.

@mel-el5862

6 ай бұрын

​@@TUCKALMIGHTYI meant the guy who wrote to you. Current canon superman and supergirl have their time travel ability again.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

I see, sorry for the confusion then. Those are still pretty much my thoughts on consistent time travel for supes, but it can definitely be argued both ways.

The video has some big mistake, Toriyama SUCKS BADLY MONSTROUSLY in continuity consistency. Goku can be a universal megazord-of-supreme-power in one chapter, and in the other, get hurt by bullets or small laser pistols. Vegeta can "blow up planets" and near his peak of power, can´t lift "meager" 1000tons. Edit: Goku at the end of DBZ, had to go ssj to lift 40 tons. This is weaker than Colossus from x-men, it´s almost street level like spierman.

Here’s my prediction, Superman wins but without the whole “no limits” bullcrap as the reason Superman wins. It’s kind of predictable at this point.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

You know? I think that's actually a good opinion to have for Death Battle.

@NASALunarLight

6 ай бұрын

Yeah it is my prediction for Goku Vs. Superman 3, I just completely forgot this isn’t talking much about 3. I just finished watching the video.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

Your good, no worries at all. It’s sort of meant to be my take on who should win, while still including my general thoughts on the DB. I think we’re pretty much on the same page though! Hope you enjoyed the watch.

But this vid was dope imma subscribe

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

Always glad to hear it! Hope you enjoy whatever’s next to come.

When are they gonna make Sentry vs Superman?

I've been saying it for years too, and the amount of over-extrapolated highball is just insane in everysingle fandom.👍 But you have to go with consistency or else it doesn't make any sens. The reality is like you said, we've seen superman defeated and overpowered, and plot hax works only in your own solo story not even crossovers, let alone other verses. A fiew comicbook writters where asked years ago who would win goku or supes, they said "depends on the writter".

In my opinion this debate will never end superman has to manu comics and inconsisnties and goku has too many games and consisties

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

I sort of agree, as long as Superman has comics that go back almost a century (and as long as Goku has multiple timelines that don't overlap) there will be too many inconsistent variables to give a single conclusive answer, yes.

The thing is they made vegeta beat zod, who is supposed to be relative or slightly weaker than superman

@poison5343

6 ай бұрын

That was dbx

They will never side with Goku as it ends the debate, and for screw attack they get no more attention. Superman never has been able to beat even Gohan.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

You had me in the fast half, NGL. Lol, 100% agree Goku will lose the DB. But I’m pretty sure, without some pretty firm Low Balls of Superman. Any pre-super Gohan, loses to Superman. Pretty Badly (besides maybe ultimate/GT, who was stronger than Buu Saga Goku anyways lol) I do like both though, so no hate towards either character. Gohan used to be a menace, and he’d beat literally every non-comic book Superman that I’m aware of.

@thermonwilliams1579

6 ай бұрын

​@@TUCKALMIGHTYI agree 100%

@yarc9

6 ай бұрын

⁠@@thermonwilliams1579gohan would lose to supergirl

@yarc9

6 ай бұрын

@@TUCKALMIGHTYGohan would lose to supergirl

@yarc9

6 ай бұрын

@@TUCKALMIGHTYsupergirl keeps up with Barry Allen while holding back

Just had debate 3 hour's ago with 4 guy's one of those guys gives no feat , One debate easily one asked questions . Other guy just don't want to admit .

That arle meta be hitting different

Ok video but suprman does become stronger in a new comic he states that things like distance and SpaceTime and temperature have lost all meaning While using a new abilities . After his training an absorbing a new star on war world

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

Don't disagree with this statement all, I even mention that rebirth superman has good feats (like the cosmic treadmill feat that I showed on screen) I just don't think getting power ups, or showing off new abilities- is really any more impressive than what post crisis, or Golden age were doing. That's all I meant.

The "inconsistencies" you bring up are all explained by the stories though. Furthermore a huge crux of your argument against Superman's feats is how you're comparing him to other DC characters. The problem being that, no offense, you don't seem to know those characters. Take the Spectre. The only limit on his power is what the Presence deems necessary. At any given moment if need be he can be the most powerful being in the DC Omniverse, only being surpassed by the presence and the great darkness. In the same breath sealing him in a host actively weakens him shunting off most of his power unless necessary. Just as it's well within the narrative bounds for him to stop Superman, it's within them for Batman to land a blow on him. Another thing, with the exception of the team's early incarnation Superman has never touted or been written as the most powerful member of the Justice League. Wonder Woman has ALWAYS been written as either his equal or just below him. Martian Manhunter has likewise been his equal or better through most of their publication history. Flash has always been written as faster, even taking Superman's more ludacris feats into account. These things are only seen as outliers when you're low balling the rest of the DC universe. Darkseid is an Omniversal being who rivals people like Trigon in power. It is no surprise when Superman struggles against him, and the few occasions where he experienced success are explained within the stories.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

The "inconsistencies" within DC, are sometimes explained away within the story. No doubt about that. Sometimes in the favor of Superman, other times against his favor like the "those were for charity Clark" panel I showed in the video. Where the Flash implies he constantly holds back in their races. But the logic, is still firm? Because there are so many examples of such events occuring-- that it would take far more time to list them all? Then I had time to show in the entire length of the video. The Spectre is a perfect point of reference, because if you read the "Batman kicks spectre" panel in context, the spectre does actually say that he allowed himself to be hit, to try and make Bruce feel better. Which seems to be perfectly consistent? Right? But then- like I showed in the flashpoint panel, Batman is still tagging reverse flash multiple times. So for every explanation, there are even more outliers which exist- to spit in the face of the ones which are explained. In Superman's case- you can kind of just see from some of the clips I've shown in the video. Sometimes Red Sun's nerf him to human level, sometimes they don't. Sometimes Magic users bully him, other times he fights universal magic beings. And? By the very fact that you have to use the word "exception" when talking about inconsistencies related to the teams portrayal of power? Supports the idea, that they are inherently ranked in odd ways. Like? I would agree- Wonder Woman and The Manhunter should both logically be below him, but in almost every piece of media related to the JLA (comics, novels, films, games) you can often find examples of superman being either way stronger than them- or even sometimes? Weaker than them. Without ever mentioning the flash- who? Makes supes scaling wonky always, because of the fact- that they are portrayed as rivals in speed, in almost every piece of media they are featured in. Despite the fact that we both logically know and agree The Flash is faster. Hence, my point about inconsistency. Also Darkseid could be an omniversal being, but his Avatars should not be (as shown between the difference in strength, of a regular Darkseid, and a true form darkseid) My point was never that Superman shouldn't struggle though. It's fine for Superman to struggle, and I prefer my Superman stories to be told that way. But it also proves that he both DOES and SHOULD have limits. Which? Was my entire argument for inconsistencies.

@marquislumas5914

6 ай бұрын

@@TUCKALMIGHTY Darkseid's avatars, much like the Spectre, have as much power as he decides to imbue them with. This is explained multiple times within DC comics. It is also explained that Darkseid being both immortal and a cosmic necessity is content to be patient. Batman tagging reverse Flash is not an inconsistency when you look at both the greater story and history of speedsters. They are shown numerous times to be fallible if someone is able to catch them off guard or if they're focusing on something else. Thawn was focused both on fighting Barry and sapping the speed force. Not on Batman. It's no different than Slade successfully stabbing Wally. There is nothing within DC's mainline continuity that has ever suggested that Superman flies faster than the Flash. Likewise with Wonder Woman and Martian Man Hunter. You're belief that they should be below him is not something the comics have ever supported. The only time this was even close to being true was like I said at the leagues inception. Even then it was only true because Superman being the older character had more showings. It is not because there was an established hierarchy. There wasn't. The problem I believe you and a lot of people who are primarily DB fans have is that when you think about a character having weaknesses it's primarily physical in nature. That is not the case with comic characters, especially Superman. You don't read a Superman story to see him deal with some ultra powerful villain and use his powers to overcome them. If that happens in the story at all typically he uses his wits not his powers to achieve victory. More importantly however, you read his stories to see him overcome on a personal level. H'el on Earth isn't about Superman fighting a kryptonian with godlike matter manipulation abilities. It's about both Superman and Supergirl coming face to face with their existence as galactic refugees. It's about them questioning what that means in relation to them being heroes. Superman's weakness isn't about how hard a punch he can or can't take, it's about how much of his humanity he's willing to sacrifice to do what he perceives is the right thing. That's what he really has to overcome in his stories and it's why his villains can range from dudes in business suits to cosmic beings who casually destroy multiverses. And it's why both are equal and credible threats to him. That is not inconsistency, it's storytelling.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

Darkseids avatars cannot be as strong as they want to be- without any sort of noticeable limits. Because if this was the case, he wouldn't need (or see any power growth) in accessing his true higher form. Clearly these avatars are not as strong as Darkseid himself. All you're saying with this comment about batman though? Is that speedsters are consistently inconsistent. Since someone infinitely slower than you- being able to tag you-- is inherently inconsistent. And if I remember correctly, thawn was focused on catching barry- who was trying to reset the timeline at this point? Though I might be mixing that up with the animated film. But you are correct, it's no different than slade stabbing wally- or any other instance of a speedster being handled by someone far slower than them You can literally look at the panels I showed in the video for this part though? Since- yes? There are guide books that imply it, and superman in the rebirth continuity implies it himself- by literally saying that if the flash can do something (use the cosmic treadmill for time travel) then he should be able to as well (basically clark saying he's just as fast on foot) For Wonder Woman and the Manhunter, the shadow moon feat highly implied superman was the only one who could stop the moon-- with similar implications coming from outside materials like the Death of Superman- or comments from people like Shazam. Who imply Superman can't be beaten without weaknesses. This is backed up by guidebooks, films, and games as well (not to mention elseworld stories) all for when it's convinent to the plot. Regardless of that though. Your disregard for the idea of a physical confrontation or challenge, in the context of a comic book. Is just completely silly. Because EVERY good fight in fiction, is meant to tell a story in itself. Fighting in comics is essential to telling the story, not because it's just meat headed action, but because matchups like Doomsday vs Superman. Show the core nature of Superman's character, in a physical? Flashy way. For the reader's enjoyment His inability to ever give up, his unyielding desire to protect the ideals of justice, and even his very creation- being linked to the core idea? Of one man, even someone alien to a land or culture, being capable of solving great problems, or doing great things for the world. Is all put onto full display, without the need for words. This is why the best selling Superman comic of all time? Is the Death of Superman. At least in my opinion. So yes? I think fighting, physical limitations, and the power of superman as a whole? Is very important to his character- not as DB fan, but because I genuinely like superman. Which again, doesn't mean he can't have grounded stories- but It also means? That we shouldn't just take his outliers at face value, for such an important aspect of his character.

@marquislumas5914

6 ай бұрын

@@TUCKALMIGHTY @TUCKALMIGHTY Once again you misunderstand his avatars. They simply work as a means for him to physically interact with the world as his true form exist outside of it. If he wants to imbue an avatar with the totality of his power he can, will, and has. He did so during infinite frontier to confront the great darkness. Superman being able to use the cosmic treadmill does not make him equal to the Flash on foot. For this to be true doing so would have to make this feat a high tier feat for Flash. Yet he hasn't had to rely on the treadmill in decades. Using the treadmill at best puts him on par with lower tier speedsters like Jessie Quick. Him mentioning the Flash is simply because Flash is the most well known speedster to have used it. Speedsters getting caught by people smarter and more experienced than them isn't an inconsistency. Like I said it is established that they are still people and they are still fallible. You're argument would be true if these people were suddenly having burst of speed to compete with them. They don't they use the situation and their experience, which is in line with the characters. You seem to be ignoring what the stories themselves establish. The death of Superman is the best selling Superman story because it broke the mold at the time it was written. It was not common for heroes to die when that story was written and even less common for characters as high profile as Superman to die. But more importantly, the fight and Doomsday existed solely as plot devices. They were superfluous, and the story could have been told without them. Case in point the equally popular All Star Superman( considered by many to be the better written story). Which is a story that also tackles his death, but more as a meta commentary that as a direct battle. While the characters may have implied these things there's a reason it's never stated. The same reason he goes to them for help to do things like moving the Earth and lifting the Spectre. Lastly elseworld tales, videogames, and other media all exist within their own vacuum. They have no bearing on the mainline continuity. That's like using the fact that you can beat Beerus with Krillian in DBFZ.

Can't people just be happy that go from the beat most The different versions of Superman I'll take that as a win Goku can can be half the people in his universe Especially by himself

Bro 😂💀 they are using CC goku not regular goku 💀 cc goku is broken

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

I really should've mentioned him at the end with the visuals, where I talk about a 5D or Hyperversal Goku. Since mainline Goku is more popular though, I mostly talked about him. But TBH, he really doesn't make any sort of difference in this fight. CC/Heroes/Xeno/Composite Goku just sort of loses to outlier superman, and God stomps a consistent superman. Regular Goku beats a consistent superman, and loses to an outlier Superman as well. So? Not much difference, but I hope the video was still worth watching lol.

@Official_Tko_Tek

6 ай бұрын

@@TUCKALMIGHTY I really think goku vs super is 50/50 different versions of both stomps each other maybe like 40/60

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, I mean? It depends on the version. But as long as we’re talking super continuity (not Z or GT) and we’re talking mainline comics. I’d probably always bet Goku. Even if the edge is slight.

@Official_Tko_Tek

6 ай бұрын

@@TUCKALMIGHTY Z and Gt goku gets stomped on

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

GT might do okay, his scaling is a little wonky. (Around Universal levels of power, just with way less stamina than Superman) But Z Goku gets stomped by any reasonably hyped man of steel.

Wait so question... since you value consistency wouldn't that make superman far beyond anything since he's been consistently op for forever now with literally all knowledge of his past selves? Do you just mean recent power ups? lol. Like im sorry you can have as much consistency as you want when you have all supermen combined sneezing solar systems and pulling chain linked planets didnt they combine them for that very reason?

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

You're half way right with what you're saying, and I did sort of gloss over what I personally see as Superman's limits. So? Basically, I do think that Superman is "consistently" overpowered to a pretty massive extent- with all of his different iterations having Universal+ to even Low-Complex Multiversal feats pretty often on the highest ends. But when I say consistently? I mostly refer to things like Superman beating up Beyond Multi-versal threats, using weird scaling chains from the comic books, or giving superman weird powers that he's only used a few times. Like, I'm of the opinion that Superman shouldn't be able to travel back in time at any random point in his story- since it's not really a power he commonly has/uses. But I think it's perfectly fine to say he has and can use the feats/skills of all other supermen-- just taking the highest and lowest ends with a grain of salt, if that makes sense.

@overwhelmingtactician3011

6 ай бұрын

@@TUCKALMIGHTY ok I understand what you mean but if we think about it it’s also not like goku uses all of his op techniques , Dragon fist , Destructo disk , solar flare etc, it’s like you said what the creators want at the end of the day all he really ever uses is kamehameha and his martial arts skill with a spirit bomb tossed in here and there along with limit enhances like kioken. I mean but it’s a great video nonetheless no shade just discourse you found yourself a sub ! 👍🏾

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, I don't disagree with that sentiment. Though? You do have to keep in mind- most of the stuff he doesn't consistently use- is stuff he's learned recently (or non-canon stuff like Dragon fist). He's always been pretty consistent about using his regular stuff IMO. But at the end of the day, it is 100% down to the creators to determine how strong someone is- and what abilities they will use well. Regardless though, glad you enjoyed the video man! And hope you'll stick around for whatever we've got next!

Yeah, they did ignore everything about goku there ignore the true ui and why goku need the combine goku kaioken ultra instinct i mean he does need that to

@King-mg7vy

5 ай бұрын

True UI wouldn't have made a difference.

@moef8971

5 ай бұрын

@@King-mg7vy Goku deaft super man easily

@King-mg7vy

5 ай бұрын

@moef8971 No he doesn't but, arguing with you clowns is like arguing with a wall, and most of us are just tired of it. You're wrong, period.

@moef8971

5 ай бұрын

@@King-mg7vy there four vision goku deaft cc goku xeno goku and gt goku and super goku they all deaft Superman easily

@moef8971

5 ай бұрын

@@King-mg7vy goku has more chances you think base xeno destroy Xeno Goku is easily 5D. He defeated Demon Demigra in Base, who can destroy Infinite History, and transcend Time-Space. Xeno Goku also saw all infinite DB histories which has infinite timelines containg infinite events, paths and possibilites making him nigh - omniscientThe Real World is basically a universe which made it's appearance in Dragon Ball Heroes where the protagonists of said games lives in. DBH Victory Mission is a spin off manga that was created by Toyotarou in , which explains a lot about The Real World and Dragon Ball Heroes Arcade Machine. Xeno goku can destroy all that

Hercule = Batman Batman can beat superman🤧 There for Hercule (with prep) can beat superman.... Goku>Superman

people hating on the video is obviously a goku fanboy, this is not even the full power, cosmic armor superman absolutely negs, go do research lol

@redhood2574

18 күн бұрын

Bro, why does he think Goku wins again?

@redhood2574

18 күн бұрын

He says Superman wins outliers but goku wins consistency

Haki? Mui? Techniques should be a thing too

You are saying using canon feats of superman in stories where the author wanted him to win is an outlier? But gokus feats where the author wants him to win is no outlier? 🤔 isnt this way of reasoning non-logical?

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

I don't think so, because while Goku is a character written by one author (meaning he only loses fights, when he canonically should- outside of random feats/anime filler) Superman is a character stuck in a composite timeline, with countless authors/writers all giving him contradicting feats. So while both have consistent-ish middle ground levels, superman has way higher outliers. As well as applying to his scaling, since this same logic can apply to a villain like Darkseid as well, suggesting he's multiversal or whatever- based on statements made about him. Causing this line of scalling to compound more and more the farther you go- until every DC character is well beyond Multi-versal. (Which obviously doesn't make that much sense.) At least, those are my thoughts.

Goku vs Superman is the story of a man fighting to be the strongest against a man who is the strongest A man with limits vs the man without limits

I don't believe that Superman or even Goku is limitless. People who assume that Superman can do anything and say things like "Why doesn't Superman just solve world hunger" or "Superman solos all of fiction" misunderstand who he is. He's not Space Jesus. He, like all superheroes, is a power fantasy. Specifically, he's a power fantasy for immigrants. He represents the idea that anyone can change the world, regardless of where they came from. Superman isn't trying to live as a man, he chose that for himself. He chose to be Clark Kent, he chose to be Earth's defender, because that's where he lives. Those are the ideals that were taught to him. So, Death Battle was wrong about what Superman represents, though they seem to have corrected themselves judging by the Superman analysis preview. Superman has the _potential_ to be limitless, just like how Goku has the potential to break any limits. Both statements are functionally the same thing. Both characters _could_ theoretically reach infinite levels of power, like when Superman used the Infinite Mass Punch, or when Goku made the entire universe tremble. Neither of them have any limits to their power. So really, this debate will go on forever. Goku and Superman will both always get stronger, as long as they have more adversaries to fight. Super Saiyan God, Ultra Instinct, the Infinite Mass Punch, the Super Flare, all of these techniques were developed to defeat more powerful foes. In optimal conditions, this matchup is a stalemate. Neither combatant has feats that the other couldn't reasonably achieve, and neither has any means of permanently defeating the other. Neither of them have limits to giving it their all.

I liked the video, I personally feel that Goku should win all his Death battles against Superman,Due to its scale of Cosmology and Feats, Death Battle really mishandles DB's cosmology and they didn't do proper research on both characters,And I firmly believe that DBH Goku>>>Superman Composite, but they are both goats

@kaihedgie1747

29 күн бұрын

So basically, you don't know anything about Superman (or DC Comics in general) and you're upset they didn't follow some Reddit fanwank

@yeikelamores6085

29 күн бұрын

@@kaihedgie1747 I'm sure I know more about DC and Superman than you do.

@kaihedgie1747

29 күн бұрын

@@yeikelamores6085 Pretty sure you don't seeing as you never said anything about either of them

@yeikelamores6085

29 күн бұрын

@@kaihedgie1747 And do you have proof or evidence of that?

@kaihedgie1747

29 күн бұрын

@@yeikelamores6085 Yes, your initial comment

What we wanted was superman vs invincible, but the writers of mark she can fold superman there not. Because the maker can make them as strong as we want.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

We’ve actually talked about making some invincible content. But? Since I doubt I’ll make this particular matchup. Invincible gets god stomped by any version of Post-Crisis, Rebirth, or new-52. While Robert Kirkman did say invincible could “win” in a fight with Superman in a statement. He also immediately follows this up, by saying he was “just trying to cause controversy” and that mark would win because “Superman is boring” So? While they’d be close in an official crossover. Invincible doesn’t have the feats to beat a comic Superman. Maybe DCAU or DCEU Superman loses though!

@paselitoru

5 ай бұрын

@@TUCKALMIGHTY So you're not completely anti Superman or retarded at least.

I think u have misunderstood superman's power development. It's actually similar to Goku, how he gets more powerful. Just less blatant. Faced with infinity he roses to overcome it. That is the nature of his powers. If Goku faced infinity of DC universe he might become as powerful.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

Superman's power development has the problem of being non-linear, or fluctuating between highs and lows. Since he'll often get big power ups, that are quickly forgotten or written out of stories entirely- especially in the later comics. But I do agree, Goku would be equally infinite if he was present in the DC comics.

Is superman a big enough problem for beerus to step in?

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

If he was in Dragon Ball? I'd assume he'd be a really helpful ally to the Z-Fighers actually. But if we're talking about an evil superman? Then yes, he is a cosmic being- of a higher threat level than Frieza or Buu most likely. So, assuming Beerus would be awake. He'd fight him out of curiosity.

You did a better video than death battle again. Hope to see a video review of their battle

Honestly using infinite frontier Superman would make no sense but i gues they did it to match Goku abilities. We have infinite f superman fighting one of Aquaman octopus villains amp by the the source wall and was having a problem fighting it. I use to debate screww attack about Goku needing to be the winer for 1 or 2 but after that i dont and believe superman win 1 or two but for this third one up to Db Super they should use Bronze age and silver age because that will measure up to Goku do to how powerful Goku is now. We now have feats that match statements and power meausre ups for Goku. We even have goku right in the beginning of super in his blue track suit lifting half a planet easily on king kai planet, The brown plates goku lifting and pulling and this was in his base form when he didn't know about god form yet this throws away the 40 ton misconception. goku vs 1 and 2 they can have the win because Db super made those two fight ollllllllllld news to the point people moved on from it. Goku is on a beyond physics level, he has 1% Angel power Like goku is literally engelic mixed with god. Granola is someone who wished with the dragon balls for omnipotent and to be the strongest and as stronger then anyone thats written and Goku and vageta still beat him..... So putting people with quotes like always strong and written to never lose wont be just enough 😅 i hope people notice that. And for speed Goku is faster then an idea of speed because people whos infinitly fast still need to think and Ultra instinct far overwhelms that i HOPE people and acrew attack really rapp thier head around this. Im not kidding on how different Goku is now and i seriously hope they add silver age and bring age Superman against Goku.

Superman is rivaled by other JL members but Goku is rivaled by Vegeta and now, Gohan and Broly and Beerus. The JL is a team of protags so that makes sense. In DB Goku IS the protag so of course he's leaps and bounds above others it's not a fair comparison. Goku would be rivaled on a hero team consisting of other Gokus. Superman doesn't have to be faster than Flash he has to be faster than Goku or others or just fast enough. In space, unbounded, Superman is much faster and Goku cannot breathe in space. Goku's fighting would not be too much to handle I think Superman's durability is too much for Goku. Superman has more powers than Goku does even the cannon ones. Freeze breath, heat vision, x ray vision, hearing from space, not needing to eat or sleep, etc. most of those cross over. Goku has outliers and does need to sleep too. He's also not very bright which intellect helps. Superman does know martial arts and consistently fights gods above his level so it's pretty even. In the case of Death Battle, it makes sense, for what the show is, Superman wins. Even then I am biased towards Superman myself but think Goku is a great character. It just makes more sense that someone who has gained power from the sun for years since he has been born and still continues to do so beats someone who has to actually rest and eat (and lost to Cell) that's time he could be using to train. Goku has endangered the world by letting enemies have a fair fight and Superman has killed when he has to, not liking it. Goku would give Thanos the infinity stones if it meant he had a fair fight Superman would not. Zenkai boosts are not natural strength and only work IF you survive death and in a fight to the death your enemy will not let you live otherwise, Saiyans are trash. They start off weak whereas Superman had all his endgame powers unlocked the moment his powers kicked in. It's not a fair comparison. Saiyans don't have all the other benefits kryptonians have nor would Goku blow up the sun because that'd kill people and he'd die too. Just taking ideas as they are like ideas to pieces of paper, all these feats are superman related and since he has more of them, cannon or not, he's more powerful as I have yet to see Goku still fly through the bounds of infinity or sneeze away a solar system and DB has to end, DC comics does not... You're right they cannot be compared one is an ideal the other is about self improvement. Both are great characters.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

My comment about Superman being weaker than JLA members mainly refers to the fact- that all heroes aren't equally powerful as protagonists in crossover events (think about Spiderman or iron man, strong in their own stories- outright useless in most major avengers style crossovers) Yet, these same JLA members, who are just as inconsistent as supes-- are consistently rivaling him? Which, as I said- only really implies that Superman has limits. Not that the JLA are weak. But as long as we agree Superman has limits? he can feasibly lose. As for Superman not being faster than the flash- and why I brought it up? It's because time travel has always been a mostly inconsistent power for superman, yet for the Flash? It has not. So saying he isn't usually "beyond infinite speed" is fair in my mind. Also, this isn't a race? So if Goku and Superman fought- flying speed is sort of irrelevant.

Superman can be killed by Kryptonite. Superman suffered losses against Darkside and other DC characters. He can't defeat the current manga Goku,Vegeta,Freeza,and all of universes Gods and Angels

.,But typically we know that cosmic armor, Superman can beat all versions of Goku today of made right now if it was like a one V1 fight if Superman was like normal side like a human, and the strongest version of Goku and cosmic armor superman wins by medium difficulty but with his normal size, maybe easy difficulty near to medium. by cosmic armor, Superman winning.. Goku is amazing character. I got a toy of them when I’m like. Already. 17 my age

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

This is 100% true, cosmic armor superman should be far above Goku. But do keep in mind, he is an "elseworld" story, so he wouldn't be considered canon to the main superman. But thanks for the comment regardless! Hope you enjoyed the video.

@realmusawi

6 ай бұрын

Yes, I enjoyed the video. Thanks for making the video by my two favorite characters by their detail and there powers and flying

@realmusawi

5 ай бұрын

.

@realmusawi

5 ай бұрын

Always have to do power scaling to know which character can really win

@realmusawi

3 ай бұрын

So many characters are very amazing to me but I just go to power scaleing that’s how I go crazy around

Xeno goku easily deaft super man

...ok but like what if goku fought him for the 4th time?

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

I dunno man, I'm just saying. I think he kinda likes it. 💀

From I get though.. they will use CC Goku. Which is above Xeno Goku.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

I wasn't actually aware of this when writing, but ngl? It doesn't really change the results much IMO. Goku either wins with consistent feats, or loses due to outliers and whacky stuff that Superman has done in the past.

@lowki2127

6 ай бұрын

@@TUCKALMIGHTYdb heroes is insane when it comes to scaling, like one character the can destroy all reality including ours and xeno(gt timeline) goku beats him in base, and later cc goku(super timeline) in mui one shot xeno ssj4 limit breaker(new form for heroes) goku

@lowki2127

6 ай бұрын

But still, goku will probably lose

@MegaMachiOnline

6 ай бұрын

@@lowki2127Goku: Xeno is not GT Goku. He comes from a version of Future Trunks whose memory of the strongest was Goku despite our respective Future Trunks seeing Gohan beat Cell. He is a foreign Goku that happens to know how to go Ssj4.

@lowki2127

6 ай бұрын

@@MegaMachiOnline I assume it was gt since that’s the timeline where all the movies are cannon as well

If flash is fast enough to jump time and dimensions then Superman being fast enough to reverse time by a lil bit is still consistent with being slower then flash …omg bro

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

Yes, what I’m saying is that consistently. The flash & relative speedsters have always been able to run backwards in time, without help. It’s like? A core part of their high tier power set. Superman has also run back in time- but wayyyy less often, and not for too many stories. Especially compared to the really relevant ones, like Flashpoint. So? Yeah. I’d say they’re equal, with Superman having better travel speed.

vegito and gogeta can do anything goku and vegeta can do. so both of them can go ultra instinct. which means both will always be stronger than goku

Infint Frontier?

Yeah the character who wins can win based on the author but in the confines of the character. If the thing sprouted extra arms, turn them to steel and could teleport that is no longer the thing. By the way there inconsistencies when eastern manga fans come to play too they are often seen as toxic or obnoxious to many. Gorilla Grodd shouldn't win every time Batman can fight him in a way that isn't physical what with traps or what not, yes physically Grodd wins but Batman is smart enough to know that. Spectre stopped Superman that doesn't mean he still isn't super powerful enough to be everyone else. Goku is inconsistent in terms of Super because Akira forgets his stories and powers too and in terms of other media like games and movies to which, while not cannon, can also be used as an amalgam as well to make the fight fair mind you DBS has a different writer now too so there is that. Goku is also susceptible to plot and the writer as well and yes he has crossed over before with Luffy and Toriko. It's not an extreme to say he cannot lift 40 tons, that wasn't a gag, we can say Goku adapted to the strength later on when got stronger.

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

I don’t disagree with anything you said here, there are exceptions to every rule (and obviously things like Batman having prep time, or looking at other manga like Fire Force, can be used as examples against what I’m saying) But the whole point, was basically just saying, that yes. Inconsistencies are very prevalent in western comic books, more so than Dragon Ball.

@TheUnseenPath

6 ай бұрын

@@TUCKALMIGHTY That's true but to say Goku has no inconsistencies, that seems unlikely. It's well within Superman's character to hold back, it's not a bad argument because when he flies he has to take into account collateral and he lives in a world made of cardboard so he has to take care not to break things yes even his enemies, like Goku, he believes can be good and values their lives they are not that different in that sense. But who cares they'd never fight more so be friends :D/

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

I didn't mean Goku has zero inconsistencies, I even point some out within the context of the video. As well as addressing the holding back argument as well. World made of cardboard line is a classic. But yes, they would probably be friends in all reality if they met.

Gorilla Grodd would destroy Batman lol; The dude has psychic powers and is a Flash villain for a reason.

Bruh...Base mainline superman solos the Franchise at the same time, Goku is way too weak to even perceive Superman, and also they didnt use the most powerful superman and you can see how much of a stomp this is, DB is not fuckin with DC

@TUCKALMIGHTY

5 ай бұрын

Again, it really depends on so many factors. That I really can’t tell you if you’re right or wrong. If you ignore Superman’s anti feats? And just take his outliers. Then yes, most Supermen eventually develop stats way higher than Goku. If you’re using any bit of consistency? Goku is far more akin to the power level/narrative of a stronger elseworld Superman. With only one storyline, that makes him sort of hard to compare- to the far less consistent Superman. Those are just my thoughts though.

You have some great insight and you earned my sub. I am Team Goku!

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

Always appreciate it! Hope you’ll stick around for whatever is next man!

I personally can see looking at this fight in both ways that was presented in this video. I actually prefer that than just thinking one sidedly especially if ether character would win based off which way u look at it. Its crazy all the stuff thats been going on with Superman. So it can be kind of hard to place where he is while its a lot easier to do so with Goku. I personally like dc more than everything else but im not the type to be bias. From what ive learned about these characters, they're both champs in my book. No matter who wins this Death Battle.

Either way by popular vote or by HIGH END FEATS which is what any sane sober person would use. Superman wins.. Dbz fanboys love justifying him winning by saying well base form x ultimate godly super beast mode x unkillable Uber master god killer time ki Goku is 999999999999999999999999 ultimate boost 😂 multiplying an ant by 10000000000000000000 does not mean it beats Galactus 😂. Goku is like u said a man.. Superman. Is far beyond that he's a god

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

Popular vote, Superman wins- since he's the most popular comic character of all time. By high end feats, if you mean using whatever highball nonsense you can find for every superman? While ignoring every situation where Superman loses. Then yes Superman wins. If you're just using the consistent high end feats for Superman, in that Universal+ range? Then he'd probably lose. Since Goku has a better toolkit, and similar feats (as well as beating a galactus rip off in his own story) You also don't really seem to get the narrative section. Where I specifically said, Superman & Goku- are BOTH characters? With limits. Neither are omni-potent gods Lol.

Your dbz fanboy is showing.. You basically said because death battle wants him to win he wins. That's not what they use though they use simple strongest fears u stick ur foot in ur mouth by saying Goku saying he can barely lift 40 tons doesn't count lmao Goku loses either way sorry but we go by highest fears not who we want to win

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

I think you're very confused about this video. I said, in the video? That I thought, Superman would win the Death Battle, because they will always use they outliers. But what you're saying, is that we should just "go by highest feats" as if that is objectively quantifiable. By your logic, Spiderman is Universal since he beat up firestorm. Batman is outerversal cause he kicked the spectre. And literally every random human in either series- is infinite dimensional, because at some point or another? Somebody has scratched a hero. By your "method" of chosing? Every single comic book character can just be called outerversal, and we just shouldn't bother featuring them anywhere. What I am saying, is that we should use both the high and the low ends, to judge someone's ability fairly. Batman consistently gets whipped by regular humans, Spiderman consistently ranges in those high street tiers, and Superman consistently struggles with people like Doomsday, Darkseid, and other JLA members (even though he has outliers to suggest the contrary) So, no. I'm not just saying "pick your favorite" I'm saying if you're looking what Goku can consistently do, and what superman can consistently do. Then Goku will win out. If you think Batman is outerversal though, more power to you. And Superman would win in such a scenario. Hope that answers your question.

so goku is universal in base, which should be at least equal to vegeta, and cabba was relative to ssj 2 vegeta.... cabba is casual universe buster.... sure...

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

I didn't say that I liked how super was written, but yes? This is entirely consistent with everything in Super. Cabba, Kale, and Caulifla are just portrayed to be really strong. With Majin Buu and Gotenks in the next arc- both after getting a training arc? Losing to, or struggling with Base Goku and Vegeta.

bro use heroes Goku as well, canon goku alone is unfair

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

I don't really think it makes much of difference NGL. I probably should've mentioned him in the section where I was talking about 5D/Hyperversal nonsense for Goku, but he loses/wins for the same reasons, if you were curious.

Well done. DEATHBATTLE logic is SOOOOOO inconsistent. Just look at the universe size comparison. The let the DC universe expand (despite all universes expanding because THAT'S how universes work) but not Dragon ball. So 2 different playing fields instead of leaving the physics as equal for both. Lets not even bring up the fact that Goku is casually busting through and being tossed the the strongest material made by the higher gods aka the TOP Arena but.... leaving out DB facts seem to be the shortcut folks love to wank Supes... 🤷🏾‍♂️

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

Honestly? I don't even really think they are inconsistent. I just think they take comic book characters way too hyper literally- as opposed to doing the same sort of nonsense for other groups in fiction. (Which is understandable to some extent.)

I'm not superman fan but I do not hate his but I'm a fan of goku

I still think Goku would win! Because more sceal over the years, people U got to remember Goku is very very strong in his bace, probably can even fight a God in that form!

kryptonite weakness even Batman only a Human wins, very easy to Goku, even super sayan level 1 only, the real superman superhuman is Guko..

Na wrong stupid Superman win

@TUCKALMIGHTY

6 ай бұрын

Did you watch the video???

@asterix1912

6 ай бұрын

​@@TUCKALMIGHTYyes, and him and I both didagree.

@edehyoungthug5887

6 ай бұрын

@@asterix1912me too supes isn’t 90 percent inconsistent

Anybody who knows DC is that outliers are true to give an example the Flash can out run time death and instant teleportation how ever if the story needs oh look Thr Flash got shot by a bullet it's the lower feat that's the BS

@kaihedgie1747

29 күн бұрын

Do you have an actual example of this? Or are you pretending that a comic in the mainline series has anything to do with a TV show clip you watched once?

This is sad beyond belief. Stan Lee himself states the WRITER DECIDES WHO WINS, but if 'unbiased' ppl want to determine who wins based on 'feats', how can they if they don't even have a grasp on reading comprehension NOR common sense. Ugh. The Size Of The Universe: DB produced a numerical value size of their universe (cool I guess) & automatically state it's bigger than Z's universe as well as our own. Dude, how? WE DON'T KNOW THE SIZE OF OUR OWN UNIVERSE, then go so far as assume the sizes of others. ? + ? × ? = x, solve for x. How!? It's based on nothing. Solar System Sneeze: Fanboys love bringing this up. Never mind Myxlplyx manipulated Sups, but okay, let it stand. Sups blew away a solar system with a single sneeze. Cool. Never mind not all systems are the same, but there are hundreds of billions of systems in ONE galaxy, hundreds of billions of galaxies in the universe. Goku's base is 100 billion billion times solar system level, & this is before 3 more years training, additional transformations & growing thousands times MORE powerful during a 45 min tournament. Geez, some ppl still believe DB only has 4 galaxies in their verse 😅 The Book Of Infinite Pages: Sups could NOT lift the Book of Infinite Pages until Shazam helped. So Sups could lift half of infinity? What sense does that make? Half of infinite IS INFINITE. So the only way this makes sense is it the book DOES have finite mass & it took both to lift it, meaning the Book is Infinite in name alone AND NOT the feat fanboys claim it to be. Or just bad writing. Want more examples of bad writing? Narrators Don't Know Shyte: Lemme pick on Marvel for once. Doctor Strange vs Living Tribunal. Doc outright states he stands no change against Tribunal. Tribunal sees Doc as a threat to the multiverse so he traps Doc for all eternity. Doc escapes 😳 Tribunal does NOT give chase cause by his own words another confrontation could bring about the end of existence. WHAT!? All these statements contradict each other. Garbage writing & garbage ppl will cherry pick which ever of these statements best fit their narrative, even if they contradict each other. Much like Stan Lee initially said. Comic Books, unfortunately, consist of the absolute worst writing of any media, Manga included, because of how many times writing changes hands in Comics. All the Frank Millers & Neil Gaimans in the world cannot correct this fact. Example, writers supervised by Toriyama himself allowed Goku to be one shot by a lazer while in SS Blue form during the Resurrection F movie. Fans were outraged at how inconsistent that was. For the anime it was changed so that Goku was oneshot while in base form (yes, the same base form that's universal several times over). What's the real statement here? The PLOT demands it. Just like Stan Lee said. The writing only slightly improved. STILL no word on what type of laser it was. Bad writing even in Manga, when Comics are infinitely worse. Sups can hear through the void of space, but can't hear Bats sneaking about, not even his heart beat. This is dumb, off putting & the reason I stopped reading comics. It's perfectly fine to enjoy a story, also fine to criticize a story when it goes south. Game of Thrones is a champion in that department with Walking Dead a close 2nd. But to go by mistakes & contradictions as fact to make a point is not only dumb, but dishonest. Death Battles Dishonesty: The biggest offender here is Death Battle. They clearly state that all combatants involved will be blood lusted & out to kill, EVEN if it is against their character to do so. Except when they're not & Goku obviously wasn't. Based on basic science & common sense, there is no quantifiable way Sups can match Goku's destructive output. 'The Big Bang' still scales to a single universe (again, until the writers say it doesn't). Much of the factors cannot be defined or determined. But I would still have to side with Goku. & to make another point how none of this makes sense, many of you have watched the 3-park Hulk vs Superman animation. Most accept it as awesome while some still argue. Let's not forget that Death Battle also made a Hulk vs Broly episode (also full of contradictions) that not enough ppl argue over. I say that cause way more ppl accept Sups Why is this a big deal? Cause the same ppl who can't see this, who can't determine the cash grab from the science, are the same ppl who drive, work, vote & reproduce, hence we are doomed as a species.

Post crises no need to even do all this he as of infint frontier gets all versions of superman as his own feats and and ll feats cannon to him on top of that we had the accended emerald knight said he knew what superman feels like and he was hitting all creation level AP and duribility with that godstorm there really is nothing to really say about that and even superman is hitting all creation even negng the highest magic as of like 1 week ago and negging kryptonighte 3 weeks ago statments of being byond time and space so on so forth very very concestant for the past like 5+ years. vs fights you normaly only take the best the times superman in the past for the majority of his so called losses were due to exploites that caused weaknessess or bypassed his defences like magic kryptonite and red solar enegry.. now they have shown feats of kryptonighte doing nothing and the most powerful of magic doing nothing he is also using cosmic energy from the source so current infinte frntier superman would mop the floor with anime/manga goku as he has all feats are his so that 100% includes barbaitos 1 shot ko and forger 1 shot ko both far past the scaling of where well all of DB is at nd can be. The CC version and Xeno though would be outer and that is low ball where superman might scale to his Duribility though is higher as he has taken a shot form magog staff that channeles source cosmic energy and he also negged the anti-life equation. I find it almost impossible to see any version of GOku beating the current superman he is on or even above superboy prime right now rather easy. Just nee to see how red solr energy will work on him or not it did take his power back in warworld but it took days for that to happen and we even saw him take stabs from a kryptonite spear so on so forth. Deffintly easy and safe to say he is at the very least outerersal with feats hitting high outer on his defence/duribility side.