OTHER DETACHMENT REVIEWS HERE: Vanguard Spearhead - kzread.info/dash/bejne/qJiIm7KEj82-nZs.html First Company - kzread.info/dash/bejne/hIWdsLmPY67aebA.html Firestorm Assault Force - kzread.info/dash/bejne/on9-l5SrZJSxgNo.html Anvil Siege Force - kzread.info/dash/bejne/gpeHvNSKcsqvmJc.html Ironstorm Spearhead - kzread.info/dash/bejne/l6N3k7dsmJm9j9Y.html Stormlance Task Force - kzread.info/dash/bejne/do1-0MafZKq6nqw.html

As a casual player Gladius is very forgiving due to its versatility. Ive played firestorm a couple of times now and ive misplaced units and got them tied up in combat, something that say firestorm cant help me with.

Note. Unless they changed it recently. Honor Vehement actually affects all melee weapons the character is equipped with. So the gravis captain with HV actually gets the bonus for both power fist & sword/chainsword/relic fist as well.

@VuNguyen-yg9od

8 ай бұрын

Thats not entirely true, the core rules state that "the number of extra attacks cannot be modified by other rules". So he will only get +1/+2 Strength on his other weapons, not more attacks on them

@JimH.

8 ай бұрын

@@VuNguyen-yg9od This is correct. His power fist will be S9/S10 and gain +1/+2 A while his relic blade becomes S6/S7 but still only gains the 2 "extra attacks."

@XealotCoils

8 ай бұрын

​@@JimH.This is why Mr Fister is the best Loadout.

Really love using the fire discipline with a lieutenant and Pedro Kantor leading a 10 man of sternguard. It's not only thematic, but devastatingly effective.

@smudge5

8 ай бұрын

Dosent the Dev doct extra cancel out Dev wounds? Love the Sternguard.

@william9557

8 ай бұрын

​@@smudge5yes you're right, the lethal hits from the lieutenant cancels out devastating wounds as it auto wounds. But it's not a bad combo as you'll get auto wound and can still roll the wound sustained hit. The both together is.... both good and bad. It really depends on what you're hitting. Low armour, high toughness? Lethal. Low toughness, high armour? Devastating. Personally, I'd replace the lieutenant for the apothecary. After this, the enemy will want to crush that squad immediately and having a revive to keep dudes alive and chugging is good

@smudge5

8 ай бұрын

@@william9557 thanks for the reply! I was thinking librarian for the strong invuln? Some extra warp magic as a bonus?

Knowing gw they will rather nerf fire discipline than to make other detachments and enchancements more viable.

@SoulCrusherEx

8 ай бұрын

I hope not. Dark Angels are having this ability too in the Unforgiven Task force

@mtrunkello

8 ай бұрын

@@SoulCrusherEx thats not true. They can have lethal hit for 1cp which becomes critical hit 5+ if the unit is battleshocked. Lethal hit is given freely by the biologus anyway. Dark angels do not have the sustained hit though in that case.

@SoulCrusherEx

8 ай бұрын

@@mtrunkello it is true. The one you are talking about is called unforgiven fury....

@SoulCrusherEx

8 ай бұрын

@@mtrunkello to make it clear the 6 command abilities for Dark Angels are Armor of contempt, Fire discipline, unforgiven fury, intractable, Grim Retribution and unbreakable lines

@dandaman9496

8 ай бұрын

Ultramarines in Anvil Siege force can do this combo on 4 units a turn. Its not getting nerfed in gladius.

The problem with other detachments is what you give up _so much_ when you drop Gladius. You lose Fire Discipline, you lose Lance on the charge (which turns terminators from mediocre to serious damage dealers), you lose ignores cover, you lose a _bunch_ of super strong flexible combos. Really, I think Gladius should just be generic SM stuff that any detachment could use.

Gladius is winning events because the best players take what they know best, but ironstorm has the best win rate. Won't take long for the top players to migrate. Ironstorm can replicate fire discipline with augury + mercy is for the weak, AND it gets all the rerolls.

@william9557

8 ай бұрын

Sort of. Augury is alright but there's a lot of primaris vehicles that just don't benefit because they either have devastating wounds (looking at you reaper) or they have high strength guns. I really like the idea of 3 whirlwinds in the back corner all with lethal hits. 3d6 +9 blast attacks at ap2 D2 is funny and they can easily punch up so the 8S is good against infantry

@musicalcharge

8 ай бұрын

@@william9557 there are definitely times when T10 ballistus krak isn't enough and the lethal hits help a lot, especially with built in rerolls so you can target something other than the oath of moment.

@notaninquisitor7274

8 ай бұрын

Ironstorm combo has to do work turn 1, then it dies to lists that can deal with lone ops. The fire discipline character can't be targeted as easily.

@musicalcharge

8 ай бұрын

@@notaninquisitor7274 I personally haven't had any issues with keeping my techmarines safe, even against melee armies, unless I'm just losing badly already.

I use the Fire Discipline combo for my Dark Angels army. Every game it is my scariest unit usually they kill a vehicle in shooting and then kill something in overwatch to get the most out of it. With this doctrine they can easily kill a Land Raider if needed it’s very strong.

I still like the fire storm detachment. I haven't been able to try it out too much, but that +1str and assault is pretty fantastic

DA player here. In my current tryhard list, I use a 10-man Deathwing Command Squad with an attached Captain and Strikemaster (Deathwing Lieutenant) to control the center of the board. I'm actually going to give Adept of the Codex a try, because being able to have that unit fall back, shoot, and charge for free seems like added value for the role in which I'm using it.

Do you get these doctrines with the Dark Angels task force? and the others? I haven't been able to pick up new codex yet.

Apart from this awesome video, what are your thoughts on Blood Angels in specific? Do you think Sanguinary guard will get primaris models soon? Is the Brutalis Dreadnought the beginning of the end of the firstborn Dreadnoughts? Thank you for your detailed analysisses and great picks of themes!

@Andonios88

8 ай бұрын

Yes.

@FurchtbaresGaming

8 ай бұрын

@@Andonios88 yes what?

@auspextactics

8 ай бұрын

There's a solid chance (though not definitely) that GW will give the BA a Templar-tyle redo this edition. Puts BA in a bit of an awkward spot currently. Seems near guaranteed they'll get a major model release within the next 1-4 years, but we don't know when!

@FurchtbaresGaming

8 ай бұрын

@@auspextactics thank you for the quick reply 🙏

@Whoknows21356

8 ай бұрын

@@FurchtbaresGamingyes to all of your questions

I was thinking of getting more aggressirs eradicators and heavy intcessors and switching Anvil Siege because of the rez and added wound but i dunnoo. Can you make a video about generally good lists for each of the new Space Marine detachments?

@XealotCoils

8 ай бұрын

If you're talking about the enhancement to resurrect. That only affects the bearer, not the unit as a whole. And it's not a guarantee, and it can only happen once.

Where does it say "once per battle" on the Adept of the Codex enhancement?

personally I really like the equivalent firestorm combo that you get in the Ironstrom Spearhead. Giving my Redemptor Dreadnought sustain / lethals on a 5+ with the 1CP / Techmarine combo is beautiful. Especially so on a Macro Plasma

@ToddGrindle

8 ай бұрын

With mercy is a weakness? Just says below starting strength, meaning 1 wound or more on it, not below half strength.

@notaninquisitor7274

8 ай бұрын

In my local meta the ironstorm lists had trouble because everyone had ways to take out lone ops, and without the techmarine the redemptor then becomes very weak against vehicles/monsters.

The Hellblaster Fire Discipline Lieutenant combo, would you say that competes with some vehicles to destroy other vehicles/armor? Asking as I don't really want to run an army list with tanks, I'd much prefer aerial transports when they get released so if these Hellblasters pack the punch it'd be great just to roll these with a Dreadnought or so for anti vehicle/armor 🙏🏼

I've been trying to figure out the detachment doctrines... please help. if I am in dev doctrine turn one and don't change doctrine turn two do I stay in Dev doctrine until I change? so still gain the dev bonus for another turn? ect.

@XealotCoils

8 ай бұрын

No you only get the benefits of that doctrine for that turn. Unsure if it's until your next command phase but on your next turn you either choose another doctrine or don't. Either way you don't get to continue using the same doctrine. There are ways around this. I believe Gladius has a stratagem that allows you to place a unit in a different doctrine, even if it's a doctrine that had been used previously.

6 Aggressors Tor Garadon An apothecary biogolis. Throw them in a Land Raider Crusader, and watch your enemies army get deleted. Bonus points if you focus on some vehicles too, since Garadon would hit and wound on 2+, possibly with re-rolls to hit, and doing 4 damage at -5AP.

Am i correct in stating that Ventris could use his ability to deep strike Calgar with a big brick of aggressors?

Had a Game where I used Squad Tactics 3 times in 3 turns, and was huge each time, managed to steal a point from a unit and moved out of charge/shoot range twice

I expect some people's reticence to play Gladius comes down to the fact that it really feels bad to play. Not because it is a bad or poorly designed detachment (it isn't), but because it really highlights how much of a nerf the Space Marine Codex was, not just in terms of the Oath nerf, but in terms of the loss of units and codex depth between the Index and Codex. At least when you are playing Ironstorm, Firestorm or Stormlance you can lie to yourself and call it a side-grade, because "look at all the new options I have".

In the Anvil siege, you can do it for a CP and with Guilliman shenanigans you can do it multiple times in a turn for free

Firestorm requires some skill in knowing where you need units to be to interact with missions. Gladius has a lot of tools to adjust to misplays.

Ironstorm is the best considering how strong vehicles are in general. Gladius is fun and fits the models I have better. If I wanted to run a mechanized army, I'd play guard.

thanks

I've played vs Ironstorm twice now and it feels very tame compared to the Index Marines. My friend is going back to Gladius next game!

@GaryP336

8 ай бұрын

Was it 3 redemptors and 3 whirlwinds with darkshrouds tho?

@FarseerB1rdy

8 ай бұрын

@@GaryP336 2 Redemptors, 1 Ballistus. Assortment of other bits and bobs. I do play Aeldari on GW tournament layout boards so... It's not too hard to take down armour. Even with their poor version of our rule.

@william9557

8 ай бұрын

​@@FarseerB1rdyyeah tell your buddy to try ironstorm with 3 whirlwinds in the back with the augury. It's the only vehicle that doesn't feel like I'm losing half of what makes it good or feel redundant. Reaper? Don't want to lose devastating wounds. Lancer? Already S14 gun.

anvil also has a strat version of fire discipline- what makes gladius amazing is "storm of fire" and "honor the chapter"

@XealotCoils

8 ай бұрын

Yeah but the Anvil detachment specifies that if you want to crit on 5s, you'd have to have remained stationary. Which given how much more chance critting on 5s gives you, it's not a 100% comparison.

Hi. Is it still worth buying the space marine codex? 🤔

@arianazamora8084

8 ай бұрын

Well, it depends on what you need. The official app doesn't let you see anything if you have any of the armys from leviathan. You can find the codex online though, and if you have battle scribe you may used that to play instead of the official app. In that way you save some money

I think its better as its more versatile the ability to drop out shoot and and advance change in the turn ya need it also to advance and shoot if ya need to close the range or reposition also the strats are slightly better than the rest of the detachments

Do a review of the Legends/HH units! Some of us love fielding them, both because they're cool af, but also as massive FU to GW.

@doctordoubledakka3939

8 ай бұрын

yeah, legal in 9th and not in 10th is pretty big dookie, people need to make more of a fuss about that, i bught some vehicles less than a year ago, b4 i finished painting them they went to legends.... pretty cranky

@matjov

8 ай бұрын

@@doctordoubledakka3939 exactly! I prefer most of the HH vehicles over the Primaris stuff. Why can't they just make a new Imperial Armour Compendium?

Sons of Sanguinius tor the win. Never gonna betray the Angel Primarch.

Having fun with triple Redeemer and all Gravis IFs in Firestorm, but Ironstorm and Gladius are probably stronger overall. Firestorm is gloriously killy though 😂

Is the fire discipline apothecary worth it for eradicators? It does even better anti tank than aggressors at less range but is about 30 points cheaper

@MrDMSir

8 ай бұрын

I personally so not think so. Hellblasters or aggressors

@dhobson5439

8 ай бұрын

@@MrDMSir interesting. With 6 eradicators and apothecary as well as all buffs related to anti vehicle implemented, I get around 26 wounds to a T10+ vehicle with 2+,5+++.

@Lerbrandt

8 ай бұрын

So you've killed most tanks more than twice over dude. That is why you don't put all your eggs in that basket.@@dhobson5439

@MrDMSir

8 ай бұрын

@@dhobson5439 I just like my hellblaster repulsor crutch lmao

@doctordoubledakka3939

8 ай бұрын

it hard to tell, less dice being rolled, but extra hits on melty is really nice, plus they don't even have to go after the oath of moments target. The question is do 6 eradicators with an apothecary need the extra hits to drop ur target. They reroll everything, even damage; does a land raider really survive that?

The lethal hits bubble for techmarine in Iron Spear is pretty ridiculous for me rn. Especially using a dark shroud 😂 you can fit so much around 2 techmarines that have lone operative.

@notaninquisitor7274

8 ай бұрын

I faced this and won easily by deepstriking a unit of inceptors that killed the techmarine buffer and his Lt with combi-weapon in turn 2.

@ValyaLoona

8 ай бұрын

@@notaninquisitor7274 how you kill the techmarine? They have lone operative and can’t be targeted unless the closest unit

@notaninquisitor7274

8 ай бұрын

@@ValyaLoona lone operative is only "can't target outside 12". there is nothing about closest target anymore.

You can attach Terminator Lieutenant (Strikemaster) to Deathwing Command Squad in Dark Angels. 10 Storm Bolters and 2 Cyclones gives as many shots as 6 Aggressors combo+ Bio.... until termies walk into Rapid Fire range :D

@latralus46and2

8 ай бұрын

Sounds great until you realize you get 1 less AP. The extra AP from the aggressors tilts the results back to their favor.

@atillakonuk2496

8 ай бұрын

I think 20 extra bolter shots before applying 5+ sustain&lethal AND being able to use this on Cyclones Krak profile as well for extra hard targets is better. Admittedly much more expensive unit, but has more utility like more bodies, more melee, resurrection, storm shield, 4+ invuln. Preferences ofcourse.

@mtrunkello

8 ай бұрын

​@@atillakonuk2496if you get stormshield you have 1 less stormbolter. But they have the advantage of deepstriking 9" away and nuking something with 40 bolter shots and 4d6 frag missle and try an 8" charge. You can have the -1 ap with storm of fire stratagem for 1 cp.

@william9557

8 ай бұрын

​@@latralus46and2ah but the command squad gets free revives and is oc2 on each unit!

Fire discipline works better on a unit of 10 hellblasters than 5 with the lieutenant, or 6 aggressors with biologis and calgar. The HB combo is cheaper than the aggressor one. Yeah you can skip calgar but then you give up assault and charge, and you want to be advancing and charging with that unit combo.

@william9557

8 ай бұрын

Dont forget heavy intercessors too at 210 for the men and 55 for the biologis! 30" of range is dope, and the T6 W3 means they can keep on chugging against harder hitting stuff!

why no dropod? i use drop pod with 9 hellblasters and liutenant...delete something first round!!

@Whoknows21356

8 ай бұрын

9? Pretty sure you’re supposed to have 10 in that list

@jeremyj189

8 ай бұрын

@@Whoknows21356non you can have 9 but you must pay for 10 and write 9 on your list

@sikamika9

8 ай бұрын

@@Whoknows21356 you can't if you want a lieutenant also it's going to be 9 helblasters

@claudehebert5051

8 ай бұрын

Isn't it only 5 or 10 now in 10th ed?

@sikamika9

8 ай бұрын

@@claudehebert5051 you can have 5 up to 10 but if you put more than 5 you pay for 10

I can never see 6 Aggressor kill 6 Terminator by shooting

Its funny how everyone still touting gladius as being the best detachment when im sat at an event with all the top uk players and there isnt a single one. Its all iron storm with a splash of vanguard

@alphacore112

8 ай бұрын

Well mayby since its the "introductory" detachment way more newbies use it and more experts use the more specialist one.

@rellikskuppin7417

8 ай бұрын

I think it's stronger than Ironstorm unless you have 2-4 gladiator chassis lol. 2 redemptors max or 3 whirlwinds or both! Ironstorm is cool but Gladius gives you everything except Mercy is weakness. Which is that damn good but not really. Also vanguard centurians are good but what else? Move 6 or d6 after being charged is how much better than after being moved within 9". Some units can reactive move after a unit moved but 6's?

@icklemoo

8 ай бұрын

that will be somewhat people wanting to try break the new detachments and see real world performances of them ..they are brand new so I would imagine alot will be running them for a few games /event to see how they stack

@auspextactics

8 ай бұрын

Realistically Ironstorm certainly might wind up as stronger once people have got optimised lists for it together. I suspect that we'll see good representation from both at tournaments though. For players individual collections I suspect they'll often get more value out of gladius unless they do have a serious amount of the 'good vehicles' together to make it worth it. It'll be good to revisit when we've got a few weeks of tournament data to see which are adding up to the best performance!

@GaryP336

8 ай бұрын

@@auspextactics it's also a team event so I'll conceed that that might sqew things a little. But none of the home nations have decided gladius makes the cut for this event

Eh, I only play righteous crusaders and then the anvil siege force for fluff sometimes

we have the same strategy on ironstorm spearhead : techmarine with target augury web + gladiator reaper with Mercy is Weakness stratagem : 245pts 12 shots sustain hit 2, devastating wounds, twin linked from gatling - 8 shots at 24" (18 at 12") from 2 tempest bolters - 3 shots from ironhail at 36" (6 at 18"). Otherwise, you speak about aggressors bomb but Jared Gomez plays the combo with hellblasters and not aggressors ==> don't counter yourself alone man 🤣.

@william9557

8 ай бұрын

Except that is not the greatest use of augur Lethal hits completely counteracts devastating wounds and you'd be better off using the augur array on something like 3 whirlwinds with 3d6+9 + blast, ap2 d2 shots. If you need lethal on your reaper, you've got it pointed at the wrong target.

@auspextactics ("adept of the codex") why you call "Adept of the Codex" once per game use? There is no such thing in that ability rules.

It doesn't actually say 'Adept of the Codex' is once per game .

Sad that every "normal" (index) detachment is going to be the best... i hope i will be wrong. I have the feeling the specialised are too much to into one direction.

Yes. Yes it does. Gladius was the best detachment anyway, but access to the Fire Discipline enhancement is just the cherry on top 👌 Lot to be said for Ironstorm though...

@MrDMSir

8 ай бұрын

The flexibility is fantastic.

After the oath nerf gladius just feels wrong but still most powerful of all the detachments.

New detachments were just a side grade after oath nerf. Gladius’ still king 💯

@GaryP336

8 ай бұрын

Currently sat at the UK teams event. Every marine army bar one vanguard is Iron storm....sooooo...probably not

@RhinoAg

8 ай бұрын

@@GaryP336vehicles vehicles vehicles…especially good for Templars who get the extra bonus of Multi Meltas on every one

@dantejrl

8 ай бұрын

good yes, king really nop. Gomez is a very good player who loves ultramarines.

@GaryP336

8 ай бұрын

@@RhinoAg it's all dreads and whirlwinds in darkangels. Techmarines. Leuit. Then personal splashes of impulsor/desolators, incursors, darkshrouds, talon masters or blood angels with death company counter attackers.

They all have major flaws except Gladius which is good all round but not incredible. Vanguard shows up how poor many of the marine datacards are outside a couple of the divergent chapters. Anvil looks unusable and plays even worse. First Company is terrible. Storm Lance has virtually no synergy with the codex. Firestorm looks great but the skill level and situational play make it clumsy as hell. Iron Storm is excellent, but taking 5 dreads, a couple of whirlwinds or tanks and some tech marines and supporting chaff is not everyone cup of tea (it's also the only detachment which I've played and hadn't wished for doctrines all game). Gladius is the best just for obvious reasons really. I'm sure plenty of great players will get some of these detachments to sing and might find niche plays but for me the codex in general is lacklustre at best

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So glad this is dying I wholly regret starting this nonsense as I've been running them all 10th edition

@Lerbrandt

8 ай бұрын

Sure thing dude, you are the genius that started the Fire Discipline trend, no one else had the genius of looking at 4 enhancements and figuring out what worked best.

@thelegendsmith3063

8 ай бұрын

@Lerbrandt everyone was using it on desolation marines. I didn't have them my army has been lethal hits spam all 10th not even using Gladius they pop tanks weather ot be genius or not all of 10th I've been running agreesors and I don't like that it became a gun line being first doesn't get me a cookie

@Lerbrandt

8 ай бұрын

Please take a few breaths before writing a comment. Your response is gibberish. @@thelegendsmith3063