My Leviathan box didn’t come with a Lancer, so I’ll be running the Ballistus lol

@mamneo2

8 ай бұрын

Incroyable.

Me sitting here as I watch this video with a repulsor, repulsor executioner, two gladiator lancers and a Ballista just freshly primed: so what you’re saying is, I need to bring them all. 🤔

@basteala525

10 ай бұрын

Spoken like a true Iron Hands. :D

@albro8853

10 ай бұрын

Would run a Lancer and a Reaper... Not 2 lancers, you already have enough AT as it is.

@georgesd2167

10 ай бұрын

I agree, and the ironstorm stratagem that gives critical hits on 5+ would pair very nice with the sustained hits 2 on the glad Reaper and the lethal hits from techmarine enhancement

@ShahbazBokhari

9 ай бұрын

@@albro8853 you may have a point. If anything. I need another tech marine 🤔

@thespalek1

5 ай бұрын

.. me sitting here with tankguard sporting a banesword, shadowsword, 2xLeman Vanquisher, 1x Tank Commander and 2x Basillisk, ordered by Lord Solar and feeling like we're about to have a nice day at the shooting range😎 (no disrespect though, this combo just seems terribly powerful)

This is the best internal balance for SM Armour in memory, nice job!

Run max of both, make opponent cry

@Micheal_Porter

10 ай бұрын

My preferred way of building lists 😅

@zanesy6250

10 ай бұрын

Who needs friends when you can win games, amirite?

@shaedeymamlas5496

10 ай бұрын

Doubly so if they play sororitas 😅

@omoroburns2172

10 ай бұрын

Run them with a primaris ancient you can fit it in a 1k list

@KapitanPoop

10 ай бұрын

GW terrain layouts would like a word with you….

lancers for me - their reliability without any further buffs make them too good to pass up on. but it's nice to see that the alternatives rnt lagging behind by much.

@stuartbanana5083

10 ай бұрын

Going to agree with you here. If I’m staring down an armored Mass, then I’ll be wanting a Lancer or Two. Something about Predators, and two or three maybe, gets me feeling blasty. But maybe we let our Heretical brothers play with those now.

@bpwargaming7807

10 ай бұрын

Y'all seem to have forgotten the vindicator

@dildoswaggins2907

9 ай бұрын

Running 2 executioners, 3 redemptors and a normal dread with heavy weapon teams for IH. Shit fuckin wrecks face. Will wreck more face with the detachment

I think the ballistus hits hard enough that your opponent will want to kill it. It can soak a lot of damage though making it so other things in your army don’t get shot at. So they dump fire power into it like crazy, or they ignore it and it easily gets more than it’s points back.

@Captroop

10 ай бұрын

I've noticed in my first few games of 10th, my Ballistus usually gets ignored. Maybe because I'm outranging most things that can shoot at it, or it's just not getting enough respect as a threat. But whatever the reason it's always killing more than its points cost.

@imjustsam1745

10 ай бұрын

I like the tactic, though I employ it differently. If you rush multiple Vindicators at your opponents expensive units, inexperienced or young opponents will let your infantry do whatever they want.

@BrandonL337

10 ай бұрын

so basically using it as a distraction carnifex then?

@imjustsam1745

9 ай бұрын

@@BrandonL337 exactly 💯.

@imjustsam1745

9 ай бұрын

@@BrandonL337 it's not to be a Richard, they just look so damn good with all the bells a whistles painted up.

Awesome! Please do a version for infantry that includes the Repulsor, Repulsor Executioner, Redemptor, and Gladiator Reaper! :D

@ancientmariner9460

10 ай бұрын

And Predator with Autocannon

@basteala525

10 ай бұрын

+1. I'd love to see this.

@adamlabelle6199

10 ай бұрын

Ooooh, this would be nice

@666greyghost666

9 ай бұрын

I came here to ask this 😂 +1 from me!

Worth noting that the ballistus is much cheaper on real world money than the Lancer at least for now, still under £30 on eBay but the price has been creeping up.

@Nostrodromedary

10 ай бұрын

This video reminded me I still needed to jump on eBay and pick a couple up 😅

@joeofdoom

10 ай бұрын

Yeah got mine for £25 each off ebay, sometimes its good to play marines.

@rankcolour8780

10 ай бұрын

I have 3 Ballistus for £40, 2 from ebay for £15 and one for £10 from a bits store during a 50% off sale. That's still less than a Lancer or Executioner!

As a templars player, I really like the ballistus as fire support for templars. A 6+++ makes it stupid hard to kill for the cost and effort it would take to remove it off the board, so its often one of the last things standing for me. Its hit rerolls and long standing durability make it a very reliable long range damage dealer, picking off specific targets with support from a thunderstrike.

@leSmokySmoke

10 ай бұрын

as a templay player you get gladiators with extra meltas.

A bonus of the Repulsor over the Lancer is it's ability to carry 6 troops. Pop some Melee and a Judiciar in there for some fights first and when you think you're going to get charged by Anti-Vehicle 4+ Squigg Hog Boiz you deploy them in between to create a melee screen. Maybe a little oddly specific but quite effective.

@stuartbanana5083

10 ай бұрын

Sounds like an Important Memory for you! I just wrote a list using the Executioner filled with Bladeguard and a Judiciar. Great minds I suppose! Hope it works out for both of us!

@someoftheyouse

10 ай бұрын

@@stuartbanana5083 my brother plays orks and I have post traumatic squigghog disorder

@jamesloder8652

10 ай бұрын

*its

@Johns3n

2 ай бұрын

Big investment for defence of repulsor tho! I could see it get some value if the Repulsor is going for objectives and not just going pew pew in the backline :)

@someoftheyouse

2 ай бұрын

@@Johns3n yeah for sure, but we usually play deadmatch rather than objectives, and a repulsor is a lot of death in a deathmatch.

Fantastic breakdown. Owning the dread and two predators, super nice to know what I’m missing from the lancer.

@stuartbanana5083

10 ай бұрын

That sounds like a great Trio to me! Want only for the shiny “new” toys.

140 us great for the ballistus and that 2+ save with AOC does make the difference for keeping your shooting platform up and running. I also think the new iron storm detachment has a couple of excellent vehicle/ dread buffs and enhancements.

I've had good luck with Executioners and Ballistus. Wish I could fool around with the Gladiator, but it's sold out.

@peters6345

10 ай бұрын

True it's unavailable in most places 😅

Gonna go with that mobile firepower the ballistus offers plus that missile array isn’t terrible

@RedCometNurse

10 ай бұрын

The Gladiator is more mobile than the Ballistus, is it not (Move 10" vs Move 8")? Still, the missile launcher's versatility is a good draw.

@xerty5502

10 ай бұрын

@@RedCometNurse the only thing that really makes you worry for yhe ballistis is the occasional t13 target especially with the oath changes wounding those on a 5 where the others do so on a 3 is huge

Suddenly happy to have this Ballistus. I just wanted a cheap dreadnought (thanks eBay) to look cool in my army but now i think it'll see some table time--provided i finish painting everything before the next dataslate.

@TheTommyFrench

10 ай бұрын

Always the problem isn’t it. XD

@ShadowCoH316

10 ай бұрын

@@TheTommyFrench some day I'll finish this damned Kayvaan conversion I s2g lol

Great analysis, thanks for the insight!

This is such a perfectly timed video, I was just trying to decide this last night

Bless the Emperor, I was just thinking how expand my Space Marines armoury and considering these vehicles. Crippled with indecisiveness, this video really helped me to make my mind. Gonna go with repulsor first, and lancer next time. Thank You, Auspex!

Dude ! I REAAAALLY LOVE theese comparisons ! Keep it up man ❤

Just as a topic this is an excellent video to have made. Thank you Auspex.

haven't ran a ballistus yet, but my lancer is a straight up gangster. averages at least double its wounds in output every match.

Played a game of 10th with my space marine buddy over the weekend to see if the balance changes had made 10th playable yet. With the points drops to Marines and hefty (and thoroughly deserved) hikes to my Eldar it did look a bit intimidating after deployment. My friend was running two ballistus, a redemptor and a vindicator as his main armour, which, we discovered, loses very badly against a pair of fire prisms. Sadly 12 wounds divides very neatly by 6, the exact damage capacity of a fire prism . . . which also has 2 shots and full re-rolls. Dont hate on me btw, this is why we dont normally play 10th.

My predator always over performs. The re roll damage of 1 is so useful and with triple lascannon I’ve taken down a wardog in a single round of shooting (it was damaged from an explosion though). It’s also underestimated so people don’t usually shoot it until a chunk of their army has been shot off the table.

I would pick the Ballistus. Always liked walkers and it is only five points more (now) than the standard Dreadnaught for twice the ranged attacks. Getting another couple of these off eBay to give me a full complement of three. In fact 3 Ballistus Dreadnaughts; 3 Predator Destructor; 1 Vindicator is exactly 1000 points of armoured tanks

Almost done painting my Ballistus, stoked to use it!

I feel from play the predator is amazing. Anything hitting at S 14, even once, is great now.

What about the name Landraider vs. these guys? 4 lascannon shots, Multi-melta, and a Hunter-killer on a 16 wound chassis with 2+ sv

Really excited for this codex, the “ravenguard” rules are finally what they should be, good at range and easy to make a quick jump pack strike. I love running vehicles with a techmarine even if it isn’t the perfect thing to do, but I do really love the look on the new edition

Got a Ballistus Dread in my Leviathan Box and was lucky to pick up a Gladiator recently. Really good to see both are solid, especially using the Ironstorm detachment . Minor point, but the Ballistus is considerably more manoeuvrable due to its size and 10e terrain density. Might potentially get an extra round of shooting against an optimal target versus the Gladiator having to choose a more infantry-type unit and suffering for fewer shots. A bit of an ask for a variation of a recent video, but it would be great to see the comparison using the Ironstorm detachment rule (which will see heavy use of these) with an enhanced techmarine on the backline giving them their aura.

I think it's also very important, in this discussion, to discuss devastator centurions with twinlinked lascannons. They put our more shots per point than the lancer, get wound rerolls, are arguably more durable, but don't reroll hits or damage, so they tend to be a bit swingier.

@scleless1342

6 ай бұрын

They pair especially well with the strike from the shadows 1cp strategem of vanguard spearhead which gives +1 extra AP and +1 BS when shooting greater than 12" dostance so the lascannons are -4 AP 12S hitting on 2+!!! Then detachment ability shadow masters gives them -1 to be hit and benefit of cover if being shot at beyond 12" forcing them to charge you to reliably do damage at which point you give them deepnstrike from uriel ventris so they cam use calculated feint or guerilla tactics to eitger retreat D6" wasting their charge or move back into reserves popping up on a separate objective. Then farm CP with calgar every turn to make up for the cost of that. Meanwhile you have Ballistus or Redemptor (which is incredibly tanky woth its -1 dmg to all incoming attacks amd detach ability giving it that -1 to hit amd benefit of cover for a frickin 1+ save lol) acting as dmg sponges/dostraction while scouts/inceptors/combi lieutenant etc.. take secondary objectives . You basically make a list of massive Gravis, Centurions etc.. that teleport around and are just enough of a nuisance to dostract the enemy from the objective takers (phobos, scouts etc..) stealing other objectives across the board. If they do catch on you have enough firepower to put up a good straight fight too.

Tldr : all 3 are really good, and that's great honestly.

I’m a sucker for the dreadnoughts just for the style. Now if we had a land raider I’d have decisions to make. Love the looks of that old beast.

Thanks Auspex that is very helpful

Auspex my man. You're literally a gift to the warhammer community.

Just finishing up painting the Leviathan Ballistus dread. It'll at least do a decent job of helping my army with their woeful lack of anti-tank, which made a recent game vs Guard a bit tricky. Maybe I'll get a lancer in the future though; they look rather spicy!

I love my lancer, even though the only time I’ve used it saw it getting shot off the table in the first turn by 6 Killa Kans 😂

I have a lot of stuff in my army list to keep opponents from shooting on my Gladiators. Predator checks out, I tried them out in a few games. They just never really brought too much pain and when targeted, just kinda died. Never a real feels bad moment, but never shined just….seemed to exist. Ballistus looks about what I thought it was. A bit too general purpose, hopefully when they make it they make it a multipart kit and bring back Riflemen Dreads dual Twin-Linked Accelerated Autocannons would be fun.

@stuartbanana5083

10 ай бұрын

That was my favorite Dread of all time I think. Those crazy long guns were excellent

Shout out for the humble Vindicator! Ask any guard player and they'll tell you how we'll demolisher cannons slap against armoured targets! 💪

@nein4599

10 ай бұрын

BS... A ballistus will save your poor bs4+ shots for 200 point on a 3+ in cover with AoC. Poor guard over and over again... For example look what they have done to the battle cannon 😂 ap1 loool strength 10 loool... FU GW

you should try the predator destructor with lascannon sponsors, it is really good

It would be cool if you did a similar comparison of anti tank damage for the T'au. Broadisedes, Hammerheads, and Skyrays are all pretty similarly priced and serve similar purposes, the math of which is better is really interesting

My Ballistus dreadnought died to a single shot from a magna-rail cannon on a Hekaton Land Fortress this week!

I would have liked to see the numbers of the Lancer vs the Valiant. The lastalon might be weaker than the laser destroyer, but its side guns are multimeltas compared with storm bolters.

I have a lancer and that big laser cannon is just amazing. To be fair I play Templars and I get the multi melta as well just in case anything gets close

Personally, I'd go for the Ballistus. But that's because it's the only model I own out of the bunch

Took a 3 day cruise missed 40 auspex videos

Vindicator not even a mention 😢

Great breakdown. Thanks Auspex! Out of curiosity, I'd be interested in how some of the less-taken antitank platforms fare in comparison. Namely the Vindicator, and also the Gladiator Valiant (especially if taken in the Firestorm detachment). Just food for thought. Thanks for your content Auspex!

@stuartbanana5083

10 ай бұрын

I’d say Vindicator is just too pricey for what you get. Valiant sounds interesting in Firestorm, I agree. Hmmmmmm

@crazyshak4827

10 ай бұрын

@stuartbanana5083 I think the Vindi is interesting in the Firestorm detachment, because a Demolisher Cannon with Assault seems fun. Plus it can fire in melee without penalty. Otherwise I'd agree though. I think it needs to drop ten points at least

You should do a video dissecting the pros/cons of taking a Stormspeeder Thunderstrike for the +1 to wound buff vs taking a straight anti-armor piece. It looks like it can be huge for punching up. Even helping small arms punch up against things like T5 Crisis Suits. With the loss of re-roll wounds for Oath of Moment, +1 to wound buffs seem hyper valuable, especially because Twin-Linked weapons still benefit from it.

Well that convinced me to try and get a Ballistus. I always wanted to have Dreads as the armour option of my list. Got 2 Redemptor. I wanted to add a Ballistus for the tougher targets but wasn't sure about the damage. He might not be the best, but he'll tank shots and return in kind. Good enough for me.

Actual answer: Vindicator.

The detachment rule for ironstorm is unlikely to benefit the Lancer as much, plus the techmarine enhancements will work better with the Executioner. I would go executioner or ballistus in ironstorm

Math completely different with Iron Hands. With the lethal hits aura and every unit getting rerolls, it's ballistus and executioner all the way.

Honestly what this tells me is that my predators still have table presence. Cheap and almost as effective tanks to spare points elsewhere in my army lists.

I still have 2 Lancers, 2 Invictor suits and now 1 Ballistus with 2 Techmarines. Also 3 Vindicators (I had them for years, because of Chronus) and might add 1 Repulsor. Predator has been around for ages as well. I just might do a bit of "Spear of Chronus" (even when he's gone 😑) with my tanks. And those are just a few I have... one gotta have at least couple of Land Raiders, rhinos, whirlwinds... old dreadnoughts... 😅

What about the Vindicator? I think it might fit in well into this group.

@Youschnoob649

9 ай бұрын

Everyone sleeps on the vindicator. Bad range but you push it into the middle and it’s flat mean to any target plus doesn’t care if it’s charged - not to mention T11 and 2+ sv

I would like to see an efficiency metric, high-toughness wounds, per point; or something like that?! It seems like the Ballistus is very efficient..

I like my Angry Washing Machines, so I am running two Ballistus Dreadnoughts. It has a weaker gun than the Lancer, but it is much more survivable. It also has a bit higher of an OC, if that will ever matter. The versatility of the Missile Launcher can be a little helpful too, so it can function as anti-horde if it needs to. I do find it weird that none of the Ballistus weapons are heavy, otherwise a stationary Ballistus could really benefit from the +1 to hit and +1 to wound. As it stands, that +1 to hit helps get the hits (and the rerolls to hit means it basically never misses), but the Gladiator Lancer gets the +1 to wound, which means it wounds damn near everything in the game on a 3+ or better. Either way, I still like the Dreads better for their versatility and survivability.

@inquisitorMence

10 ай бұрын

It's not weird. Heavy is relative, and usually comes with a worse BS. Dreadnoughts are strong enough to move 'heavy' weapons without issue, so they get neither the penalty nor the bonus.

For my Ironstorm spearhead list, I am currently running one of each of the top 3, plus a Reaper that just shreds infantry... Still not sure if I keep my Redeemer or replace it with a 2nd Executionner

I have had a lot of success with the Ballistus, Redeemer, Repulsor combo. Ballistus will be damn near unkillable especially in cover. And the transport capacity of the redeemer and Repulsor are worth it. The regular Repulsor is what 190 now which is 30 points cheaper than the executioner.And the dread is 140 points which is 20 points cheaper and you get a 2+ save vs a 3+ of the Lancer, I guess you can’t go wrong with either, I just love using the dread for salamanders. That gives you another 50 points to play with.

Curious about how the Stormspeeder Thunderstrike would have compared, especially since it dropped to 160.

Said this in one if the comment chains but moving it to the front of it's own chain the only real big problem with the ballistus is it's strength 12 cap and having to face one of the immideitaly few t13 targets wounding them on 5's while the others can on 3's is huge.

I have one shot my friend's screamer killer twice with the lancer laser from across the table. 72" is pretty scary (depending on terrain)

With the points drop on the dread, that’s my preferred choice. I’d rather run big mechs over tanks anyway (I enjoy painting them way more).

Im rolling with a Sicaran Venator. A) Gorgeous model, B) a saucy anti tank gun, 3 decent support guns and a HKM but C) legends are great.

I've got 2 ballistus and 1 Redemptor, a block of Dread, called "Fuck, Around and Find Out" it sends a message on that side of the table.

I got myself a Kratos even tho it's in legends now u love the mini

Something I feel to consider is actually that the predator destructor may bring more to the table than the annihilator- Assuming you're bringing it to gun down big Oath'd targets, the Annihilator's gun doesn't gain anything due to being twin-linked, while a Destructor with six shots + those lascannon sponsons can consistently out DPS the former against those big boys (someone on r/WarhammerCompetitive did the math) while being WAY more effective at dealing with elite infantry blocks

I got a rep exec, just ordered a Gladiator kit, thinking either lancer or reaper

Predator will probably be legendary soon anyway 😢

I run 2 lancers, an executioner, and 2 redemptors. The redemptors are more durable than the ballistus but are way more broadly useful, good at any range. Executioner benefits from oath well, but it rarely gets it's ability buff because I'm almost always firing at full health oath targets in case I manage to obliterate whatever with the laser destroyer. Then lancers can either finish oath or fire at something else with half rerolls. The massive secondary firepower makes the repulsor worth it though. I always have a techmarine parked near it.

I want to try 3 Predators An. I like them being the cheapewr option.

@stuartbanana5083

10 ай бұрын

And possibly under estimated foot not being quite as “shiny” and bristling with arms

What are your thoughts on the Centurion Devastators?

Both…2 lancers or 1 and a repulsor executioner or 2 and a ballistus. Effective and lethal

I love Dreads, so I will probably mix between Lancers and Ballistus as points allow

BOTH!

I love the ballistus and always have and despite not being the best shooter it should survive better than the others and I think that's the most important due to the fact the enemies will fire back

How come the redemptor isn't on the list? The macro plasma on that seems more than good against tanks, or does the slightly lower strength mean its not a competitor? (Noob here, apologies haha)

Bring stormspeeder thunderstrike if you want more anti-tank and anti-monster punch

im tempted to run a full dread army with 3 tech marines for a 1,000 point army. would be my first army

got a Gladiator to build, but in doubt on what kind i should build it is. what is good atm ??

@stuartbanana5083

10 ай бұрын

Lancer for sure

@NecroGoblin-yl2fx

10 ай бұрын

@@stuartbanana5083 ty m8, where thinking about that, that where the way to go :)

The gladiator looks good against vehicles but once you have to attack infantry it falls very short; I was expecting an analysis of the centurions since in my opinion they stand out well given the loss of the wound re-roll by oath of moment

Anything with re-rolls wins out...While the Lancer lost it's full re-rolls, it's still one of the most accurate and reliable unit in the book. Auto-include if you like space marine tanks.

does anyone know if the lancer ability stacks with the ironstorm detachment ability? they both do the same thing (in the shooting phase at least), so could i use the lancer ability to reroll a shooting hit roll and the ironstorm ability to reroll a shooting wound roll in the same shooting phase?

@alexsolomon7829

10 ай бұрын

Yes, they are both usable but you can’t re-roll a re-roll

I'm shocked that vindicators are being slept on so hard

In terms of durability, it's also worth remembering that the tanks can all pop smoke, and the ballistus can't, which is a huge durability buff.

Now to wait for the Gladiator to be restocked and the Ballistus to get a standalone kit. Knowing GW and the Brutalis, probably gonna take more than 1 year

for me, all units are interesting but it's 2 lancers every day : with iron hands detachment it's 2 re-rolls each time they shot.

i'm hoping one day the Ballistus is solid standalone but It might be $80 like the Brutalis which is insane.

Storm Speeder Thunderstrike is the best tank killer in the index. The only fact that it gives +1 to wound (for your entire army) against an monster/vehicule is basically insance

Well, seeing as i only have the Ballistus, I'll be using that one now

I have 2 levi dreads. 1 repulsar executioner... should I buy any more tanks?

Ballistus, purely because dreads look like bosses.

I still take the Lancer over the Ballistus because neither get -1 damage, and the Lancer has access to the Smokescreen stratagem. For 2CP, it can get surprisingly hard to kill. Just yesterday in a tournament, my Lancer tanked three rounds of Darklance shooting pretty reliably with Smokescreen + AoC + Benefits of Cover. Also with that Smokescreen strat, you have a little more leeway with positioning, because you can give yourself Benefits of Cover even if you're out in the open, which you can't do with Ballistus.

But what about the Vindicator and its Demolisher Cannon?

In my Ultramarines army I have 1x Lancer Gladiator, 1x Ballistus and 3x Redemptors.

Ballistus for that durability. I like my stuff durable.

Its the redundancy I value the most in the Lancer, their ability makes them incredibly reliable even outside of oaths targets. Rerolling a 1 for damange into a 6? Oh boy...

Interesting

Predator destructor - the AC is good vs terminators and the str9 makes it ok vs armour. Put on two lascannons a storm bolter and a hk. It’s a jack of all traits master of none. I would pair it with a ballistus But also a classic dread could make a big change in a shooting SM due to aura.

I run Predators and they clap. A lot of people sleep on em but when you pair them with Incursors and a Thunderstrike Speeder they will slap HARD. Hitting on 2s and wounding most tanks and monsters on 2s is gross and for 130 Pts they aren't bad at all.