I'D BUY THAT! HiFiguides Thread ------ forum.hifiguides.com/t/request-for-surround-sound-decoders-dac-bypass-processors/20048

@iluvhifi2407

3 жыл бұрын

I have wanted this since 10 years at least...

@Ab-ru1ew

3 жыл бұрын

The size of what you are asking to be created is small as a grain, its just a firmware flash chip. It will never happen Z. Sound processor is the most you can ask for but you can ask for processors without license and then having to purchase the license for each decoder that you just need. In short, you want surround processors without any license and then you choose what you want, example: i want only Dolby digital, processor then prompts you to a online screen and you make the purchase of Dolby license.

@samuelklunker9610

3 жыл бұрын

I! I want this to Z!

@stanisawszczypua9076

3 жыл бұрын

(Almost)no one cares. that's why no one makes it and no one sells it.

@benbraceletspurple9108

3 жыл бұрын

I never understood why this didnt exist either.

Zeos' basement always makes me think of a flea market I could spend all day and my money in.

@kxrnxtxn1911

3 жыл бұрын

More like all of my organs.

I've been yelling about this product not existing for the past year! We need dedicated surround decoders

@martinjean5198

2 жыл бұрын

How much are you willing to pay for this type of product ?

@roadsidepicnicbasket

2 жыл бұрын

@@martinjean5198 Sweet spot would be around $500

@BrokenToy00

2 жыл бұрын

1+ fully agree

First off, THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS!!! Oh my god I cannot tell you how stupid it is that if I just want a 5.2 channel with 2 atmos speakers I have to fork out 4 grand for a processor with decent dacs in it only to have to replace the entire damn unit when a new format comes out, instead of just replacing the part that needs replacing. This would be the best thing to ever happen to home theatre enthusiasts who also like to listen to high quality 2 channel audio. Secondly, I think the market overlap between people who currently buy a surround processor and people would would buy a surround decoder is larger than you think. People who buy processors already want the modularity, so for them it'd be a no brainer to get even more modularity. Finally, definitely agree about The Expanse. Holy shit man what a show.

I did sound for a 1 off movie premier and we had all the amps backstage. We dropped a dante rack by the media server guys up in the projection booth. Using virtual soundcard they were able to simply plug an ethernet into their machine, send the 7.1 over the dante network which was carried over fiber backstage to a small console which spat out AES to the amps. Literally digital all the way from the source to the amplifier. Shit sounded so clean.

@ZReviews

3 жыл бұрын

I feel like my basement doesn't need Dante but it be so good.

@Beghty27

3 жыл бұрын

@@ZReviews Dante certainly seems like overkill, but I know people with home studios that use dante because they can easily run audio from one room in the house to another simply using the installed house cat5e. I wish more home audio companies implemented networked audio.

@aaronpieper3978

3 жыл бұрын

@@ZReviews Do it i'm begging you🥺🥺🥺🥺😩😩😤😤😤😤

@jako2301

3 жыл бұрын

I think I would go with Dante, with Dante "Via" you should be able to set Foobar to stereo, and your movie program to 7.1 or even 14.2 and then run any these 16 Channels to any individual dac/amp. But I am just a 19-year-old student who neither has a home cinema nor the money for a Dante-setup, but with an interest in Pro-audio. But yea, Dante is probably overkill. But I would definitely like to see it.

@st0rm4g3dd0n

3 жыл бұрын

@@aaronpieper3978 he could run Ethernet through his house and do all kinds of crazy stuff with a dante network sending audio and video around to different places

DRM says hi, and also no.

@dennismanning6684

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly, the elephant is in the corner....Hollywood has all the lawyers needed to keep that key out of the lock.

@VredesbyrdNoir

3 жыл бұрын

I did think of that too, but maybe if you're licenced to decode DTS/Dolby you could get away with splitting out separate PCM channels over something like TOSLINK. I think it would be difficult and pointless to re-encode the audio back to the original mix for the sake of piracy without the video signal anyway?

BEFORE IT IS BROUGHT UP! I am aware the dac's would be De-Synced and timing would be off between them. BUT this would be compensated by systems like Audyssey or so small it is inconsequential. I use to separate dacs in my current HT with no negative impacts on balance or anything else I can perceive.

@rainingman338

3 жыл бұрын

yo zeos, you need to set up a home gym and get ripped af. That'd be sick

@juliangst

3 жыл бұрын

not only that, but the DAC would have to be Dolby certified with piracy protection and this would drive up the cost for each DAC. Therefore the DA conversion must happen in the device thats decoding the surround signal so just get a decent surround processor with good build in DACs

@crunchied8

3 жыл бұрын

what about those all in 1 pc you have in your house i think you have 3 or more of them zeos would those pc's work

@BenjyP.

3 жыл бұрын

@@juliangst I think this could be circumvented if you sell the 8 channel processing and the sacs in a combo unit. Ofc I habe 0 knowledge about the actual dolby certification process and prices, just an idea

@juliangst

3 жыл бұрын

@@BenjyP. this might works but makes no sense to do because you would end up with basically a processor in different boxes. What Z wants is to use his own dacs but I think thats not possible for those licensing reasons

I knew exactly where this video was going and I agree completely.

@brl5755

3 жыл бұрын

It's going to a world where you just replace the brains and not the horsepower when you need an upgrade. It's going exactly where prosumer home networking is going (a la UBNT) where it's all separates and you can mix and match to your heart's content.

@martinjean5198

2 жыл бұрын

How much are you willing to pay for this type of product ?

I've been waiting for this kind of a dive into your home theater setup. I really enjoyed it :)

I've been wanting this for YEARS !!!

@martinjean5198

2 жыл бұрын

How much are you willing to pay for this type of product ?

This video unfortunately told me everything I needed to know about my current situation : what I want doesn't exist in my price range. I use a computer for my 'home theater', and I was looking for a decent way to externally amp my front tower speakers without losing 4.1 capabilities. Thanks for the video Zeos.

This is a great point. I have never understood why surround sound decoders are so expensive and rare.

"Speakers can last 40 fuckin years..." Stares at recently purchased Ohm model H's refurbed from the factory

Yes! Couldn't agree more. That way I can use my high-end dac for the front two channels and something like an SMSL Sanskrit 10th for the others

Z's rants are always my favorite content that he provides.

This is similar to what Steinway Lyngdorf, Trinnov, and Datasat do. Trinnov and Datasat have the digital connection from the decoder/processor to the amp. Their amps and a couple others. SL does it differently and I think they have digital amps. It's unfortunately a very expensive system but if you compare it to other high end home theater systems it's comparable. Their room perfect eq doesn't require acoustic treatments.

36:20 Yes, the analogy to on-board laptop sound is perfect.

I appreciate the rant video. It's like the Z Does videos without pretending it's something else xD

was literally searching for a budget surround sound DAC for my monitors last night...perfect timing

edit: nevermind, zeos touched on this a bit further into the video. There's two ways I know of to get surround digital outputs *from a computer.* these methods are of course limited to what a PC can decode, so no Atmos or anything like that. The "proper way:" professional AES/EBU sound cards. 8 or even 16 stereo channels. of course you wouldn't get fancy room correction/delay compensation/Audyssey/whatever, but you can do that from a nanodigi anyways, right? The "extreme jank please never ever do this" way: pulseaudio in Linux allows you to bond together as many sound devices as you'd like. 16 USB to SPDIF converters hanging off your PC? sure. *However,* I spent months trying to get two cheapo usb sound cards to play nice together and it will work but occasionally one would become delayed for no apparent reason, and glitches are aplenty.

@xureality

3 жыл бұрын

after some digging there's the RME Digiface USB, literally a USB sound card with 4*stereo SPDIF outs, but it's $500. @UCBGWmgxU-zSWNUYDgZ-Q4fg i doubt the STX can decode atmos, it might be decoding just the underlying TrueHD or Digital Plus streams, and not actually the full atmos experience. More importantly, can you even adjust the outputs to the height channel? because if not it'd be rather useless...

@nitromenoob

3 жыл бұрын

Or you could hire a choir and tell them to stand around you and sing

@xureality

3 жыл бұрын

@@nitromenoob I would love to hear a choir try to sing explosions or sci fi sound effects

Totally agree with you on this... Prevents you from having a listening and viewing room without duplicate systems.

@martinjean5198

2 жыл бұрын

How much are you willing to pay for this type of product ?

I was just stomping around the house having the same rant. That rant led me here.

@martinjean5198

2 жыл бұрын

How much are you willing to pay for this type of product ?

Actually, what we need is surround processors (with dac) AND vst plugins. Any old 150$ laptop will run a plethora of FREE vst plugins that will put to shame ANY surround decoder at ANY price point. In other words, we need pc soundcards with arc/earc inputs that's not overpriced to the moon. That'd put pretty much all these overpriced home theater companies out of busyness overnight.

@iheartwindshields9770

2 жыл бұрын

Post a vid/link on this...exactly what im trying to accomplish...maybe even better through XBOX1X 💥🏁🚀

You can use Virtual Audio Cable and Audio Repeater to do this. Use the virtual cable to have (multiple) surround sound capable playback device(s) on Windows and then use the audio repeater to split the surround sound into multiple dacs. Use one virtual cable as the main source, route it to another virtual cable(s), and then route two channels of that into the desired sound device (dac). So for example, create 3 different virtual cable. VC1, VC2, VC3 (don't forget to set all of them as a surround device). Route all the VC1 surround channels to VC2 and VC3 (using two instances of audio repeater). From there, you can route say, Front Left and Front Right channels from VC2 to a dac, and then route Surround Left and Surround Right channel from VC3 to a different dac. Since VC2 and VC3 are duplicates of VC1 (the main source), its basically the same as splitting VC1 into multiple dacs (I tried directly splitting VC1 to multiple dacs but it doesn't work. Hence you need a VC2 and VC3, a virtual cable for each dac). And there you go, surround sound split into multiple dacs. I did this because I only have one decent stereo amp so I wanted to split (extract) the Front and Center channels to the stereo amp and let a cheap home theater receiver handle the rest of the channels. ps. i use virtual audio cable and audio repeater from muzychenko. you cant use the free version if you want to use multiple virtual audio cable tho i dont think there is quality degradation as long as you keep the audio format (sample rate, bit depth etc) consistent across all virtual cable and devices but i never tested/checked play around with the buffer and pre-fill settings on the audio repeater if the sound is 'glitchy'

For movies I use a Creative G6 receiving a 5.1 dolby digital signal which builds a pretty decent binaural surround simulation which then feeds an A90 and then a headphone of choice. Sounds better than most speaker setups I've tried.

A movie with a good soundtrack is arrival. One of my favorites.

@SupperGammer

3 жыл бұрын

Oblivion and Tron too, also, Whiplash.

I'd buy that. I really don't like having a massive receiver taking up half my living room... love that surround sound though - great vid Boss, keep 'em comin'

This video is gold. Thank you!

@martinjean5198

2 жыл бұрын

How much are you willing to pay for this type of product ?

Can’t wait to see the video of your HT room build.

For reference, the RMC-1, RMC-1L, and XMC-2 all use the AKM4490 DAC. Its a little older at this point but it still sounds pretty amazing.

@2233sc

3 жыл бұрын

He should just buy an XMC.

FINALLY. I've been searching for this discussion on the internet for an entire month.

@martinjean5198

2 жыл бұрын

How much are you willing to pay for this type of product ?

MAXIMUM OVERDRIVE The sound of a Detroit diesel haunts me in my dreams.

@ZReviews

3 жыл бұрын

Noice

@baabdesigns9179

3 жыл бұрын

@@ZReviews wsp z....

I saw the title and immediately gave the video a thumbs up. This shit is insane.

Makes sense to me! Interesting what you said about trying out the two channel JDS DAC with your Tascam AVR. I don’t do multichannel in my small space but I’m using an AVR to power my two channel system. My cheap Sony DVD player is also my CD transport and I found that my mid-level Denon receiver’s internal DAC sounds noticeably better than the Sony’s. Lately I’ve been wondering if an external DAC would take things a step further.

i completely agree. i have been wanting this forever.

@martinjean5198

2 жыл бұрын

How much are you willing to pay for this type of product ?

You can do this. Or pretty close at least. You can buy the license to DTSx and/or Atmos In windows and using a digital audio cable(s) (hificable uses asio) you should be able to route each piece of the audio accordingly L, R, etc. To each independent dac/amp. And to add, you can also use Equalizer APO and fuck with eqs and everything under the sun.

@fieldcar

3 жыл бұрын

I wonder if there is a way to do this with linux+raspberry pi and make a dedicated headless unit. I'm sure it's a huge if since dolby would say F-off to open source anything. Maybe there is a way to run windows binarys through wine emulation. Hmmm.. Someone out there has to be able to know if this is feasible.

@BenjyP.

3 жыл бұрын

If you can decode the signal in windows, you can feed that into the minidsp 88D as digital input and do all the splitting, timing correction and what not in there. At least I think so :)

@xureality

3 жыл бұрын

@@fieldcar ffmpeg can decode dolby anything short of atmos (atmos enabled content decodes as TrueHD surround) and DTS anything short of DTS:X. So if you're not planning on adding a height channel it should already be possible now.

@jaredwaddell328

3 жыл бұрын

@@xureality This gives me ideas.

@lotechgreg

3 жыл бұрын

@@xureality Didn't know of ffmpeg. Just did a little looksee, and I would agree. Possibly, use ffmpeg to decode,set up a server to use ffplay to stream the individual channels,or pairs/whatever over network to Pi's-USB-DAC-Amp-Spkr. ..... Big question, ... finding someone/anyone who has thought about this and, possibly started the endeavour, or someone who knows how to use the building blocks to put this together. Wish I had the coding chops, but alas, I find myself wanting......... Somebody here, or, Z's extended crew, has got to know how to code this...

The dacs actually do the surround sound processing. But you can use the dac as a (passthrough) ic controller.

I see more people buying the purely digital version, me included, because this is fir asholes that already have a high end dac. This would be the best device to get stereo people into multichannel.

@martinjean5198

2 жыл бұрын

How much are you willing to pay for this type of product ?

Here's the problem with what you're asking, and my apologies if you addressed it later in the video, but it's too long to watch in its entirety. PCM output doesn't have a volume meta data*, it's a pure digital representation of an analog wave. This mean you would have to adjust the volume in each DAC/AMP. You could use a multi channel DAC/AMP, in which case, you now made a processor. * You could control the volume of PCM, by reducing the wave's amplitude, but you'll be losing resolution the lower you go.

I'd be into this as well. Make the thing firmware upgradable to add new licenses for codecs. Bonus points for modular so the hdmi subsystem can be upgraded for when 2.2 or later comes out. Will pay the moneys for that

@martinjean5198

2 жыл бұрын

How much are you willing to pay for this type of product ?

YES!! I have diy 3 way powered monitors with dsp active crossovers and would love to keep it digital. I would even be happy if it was a pcie add in card with dolby atmos and I had to use a pc; as long as it works.

@BenjyP.

3 жыл бұрын

Hey sounds awesome. Just out of curiosity as I want to build something like that in the future, what AMP are you using to amplify each signal?As the tweeter needs much less power than the mid range or bass.

@danielmackney6236

3 жыл бұрын

@@BenjyP. I'm using hypex fusion fa503 plate amps. The speakers I built are called the Seas kingr04y mk iii .

Yes please, this. Someone build this please. I use miniDSP for all channels so going to analogue before translating back to digital feels like such a painfull step and especially pointless ...

Most of the higher end processors, like the Emotiva RMC-1 and RMC-1L, actually have audiophile DACs in them and the RMC-1 in particular has an individual DAC for every one of its 16 channels. The cheaper XMC-2 has individual DACs for the front 3 channels and then one DAC for every other two channels after that. I have the XMC-2 and it sounds pretty amazing for a surround sound processor. You should try to get Emotiva to send your both of those for testing.

@CockatooDude

3 жыл бұрын

The problem is that all most people want is 7.2 channels and you can't get a high end surround processor that's only 7.2 channels. I don't want to pay for those extra 3-4 dacs in a 16 channel processor if I'm not going to use them. If the units were separate and you could choose your own components and how many channels you want, then you could get much higher quality sound at a lower price.

@hypnoz7871

Жыл бұрын

Emotiva RMC-1 are still trash AVR meaning closed software with planned obsolescence. With a PC you can do ANYTHING. Just the ability to use VST plugins would make any Trinnov or Stormaudio look like a child toy. Also... Emotiva is anything BUT quality. Their gear have been measured several times and the implementation is anythng but stellar.

Hi Zeos, The best surround sound Decoder I have is a modified Silicon Chip Surround Decoder PT.2 from the 1990’s. This is a Dolby Pro-Logic decoder that was purchased in kit form and which was modified and built with better Op Amps, power supply and attenuators by my good friend and audio engineer Joe Rasmussen of Custom Analogue in Sydney Australia. It just uses Dolby and there is no atmos or thx but it sounds amazing hooked up to my custom made mono blocks in 5.1 surround sound setup. I also have a Onkyo TX-NR626 Receiver which is relatively good for what it is at its price point but, doesn’t come close to my custom setup.

YES PLEASE!! Emotiva please listen to mad lad!

all I need is a 4k HDMI switcher with DTS-MA and DD decoder, with volume control and a good DAC (a plus would be XLR outs and a 4k upscaler )

I would love Zeos to check out the Outlaw Audio Model 976 7.2 Surround Processor. Looks like a very compelling processor for the price

my setup is an Evolve II-4K HDMI v2.0 / Multi-Channel DAC - 7.1 RCA output and a HDMI 4k video out. It can decode DTS MA and Dolby Digital Tru HD. This is fed into a Minidsp DDRC-88 for Dirac Room Correction and volume control etc. It costs very little compared to other surround processors/ decoder in the market.

@xureality

3 жыл бұрын

What Zeos is looking for is exactly that BUT with 4 TOSLINK outputs. So he can actually take advange of the nanodigi.

@ZReviews

3 жыл бұрын

Cool dac but its still four stereo dacs shoved in a $300 box. Have you tried going to the DDRC-88 with a single hq signal? Compare the outputs for 2 channel listening?

@daohuy

3 жыл бұрын

@@ZReviews only thing I can think off that has a higher quality 2ch signal might be the Minidsp shd I own for my 2ch with 2 subs system down stairs. I'll hook up the minidsp shd to the ddrc and disable Dirac on the shd to see if it makes any difference. I also have a Fostex HPA8 DAC headphone amp to try but it's RCA outputs are noisy (possibly broken)

And this looks pretty cool too

OK, yeah sounds awesome, I'd buy it, but I'm also thinking Fiio BTA30's plugged in to each output, thus making it the wireless version.

Dolby does have decoders which just give you digital outs but I think they only go up to 5.1 or 7.1. They're pretty old units so you can find them very cheap on eBay

I have thought the same exact thing many times over the years, but I am not willing to pay $1500

YES YES YES! Been wanting this for so long!

I always knew you were a GENIUS.. I'd buy it..

A practical way to design a processor/AVR with external DAC support would be to supply the Digital outputs for the channels in pairs and an analog input for each pair of channels. The DAC would convert the digital signal and send it back at line level and the processor/AVR can so the rest with the analog signal. That will allow users to control volume, delay, EQ, etc from the processor/AVR, this would also allow people to use different quality dacs for different channel. It would be simular to how the Pioneer RMX-500 is patched into a DJM-900NXS mixer board using the SEND/RECEIEVE. Doesn't seem expensive from a design/manufacturing standpoint, but yea they are not going to spend a penny on it if it doesn't sell more units.

Thanks Z for the Maximum Overdrive flashbacks

Doesn't MiniDSP make one ? The DDRC-88D. If I understand correctly you can use each channel, output it digital to your favorite dac then amp and then speaker :)

@KamielSadien

3 жыл бұрын

Just looked at this Minidsp now and you're 100% right. It has 8 channels of SPDIF or AES and is USB fed. The only real question would be Dolby or DTS.

@BenjyP.

3 жыл бұрын

@@KamielSadien I''m not sure how dolby's or dts encoding works on a low level, but can't you use any dolby certified encoding box and pass the encoded format as a digital input into the minidsp? Something like the FeinTech VAX01201 (I just typed dolby encoding box into Amazon)

i guess if you use all amps that have a 3.5mm plug for IR remote in/out that should fix the volume issue

THE UAD APOLLO X6 is the thing you are looking for. Highest DA conversion and Surround compatible.

@drdelewded

3 жыл бұрын

He's not looking for the converters, he wants the surround decoding. He'd also want the Apollo x8 cause he's doing 7.1.. though Id go Focusrite Red instead. No tech/money wasted on plug in dsp. and its dante enabled for ethernet connectivity.. When I set up my atmos mix suite that's the way I'm going.

@AlexisGitarre

3 жыл бұрын

@@drdelewded that's an interesting answer. didn't know focusrite offers a surround option.

@drdelewded

3 жыл бұрын

@@AlexisGitarre yes. They just introduced a multi source (up to 7.1.2) monitor controller that works through Dante. With the Red 16Line you can monitor an Dolby atmos analog mix.

@drdelewded

3 жыл бұрын

Look up the rednet R1

I'm in the middle of moving and i wanted to buy som klipsch speakers. Just think they're f***** beautiful. Now i'm seeing this video and you're so right. It's niche and i'm not even audiophile but i god damnit want this kind of solution because it's makes so much sence! I dont know what to do anymore, wanted to buy a denon reciever that fits my tv capabilities..... now i'm looking for strippet processors... oh god...

The HDCP agreement means a device isn't allowed to output high res digital out of the HDMI input. So you'd be limited to 48kHz 16bit stereo. And if you want more the device can't be HDCP compliant which basically means goodbye streaming services and Bluray, so nobody makes these. I guess you'd have to pirate remuxed and copyright protection stripped content even if you're already paying for it. Arvus H2-UDMA exists(?) but is sadly a couple thousand $. HDMI in to basically anything (including AES/EBU) at once. MADI Optical and Coax is an extra cost. Does everything DTS and Dolby including Atmos. (Arvus HDMI-2A is cheaper but no atmos, also old)

@ZReviews

3 жыл бұрын

Wow thats close to what I want. Shame it went out of business.

@NakeanWickliff

3 жыл бұрын

@@ZReviews I'm a complete noob....but....could it be worth checking out newer AVR offerings. I have to believe they've come a long way from 7 years ago when it comes to the internal dacs these AVR's have. Probbaly not the best of the best (what is what you're looking for) but got to be better than Teac 7 year old AVR DAC no?

@icyphilippe

3 жыл бұрын

16bit 48KHZ is a hole lot bettre than 12$ dacs in a processor

@jusmirtic

3 жыл бұрын

@@icyphilippe It's 16bit 48kHz stereo not surround for LPCM out. Some devices bypass this restriction by presenting the digital out as ARC in which case the LPCM restriction still applies, but bitstreaming lossy surround formats becomes an option. The problem is that you could make such a product (like the one I mentioned) but it's already niche and it just won't sell without HDCP support. You could make it switch depending on if the input is HDCP encrypted or not and receivers like that exist (like ISP mk2) but they come at an absurd price range. You could get a splitter that "accidentally" strips HDCP which would allow you to make it work but it's a bit of a gray area and nobody wants to make a product that relies on that to be used.

@martinjean5198

2 жыл бұрын

Is it possible to make this product with only ARC/eARC input ? Will the HDCP agreement apply on ARC/eARC ?

The Tascam PA-R200 has the TI Burr-Brown 192 kHz/24-Bit DACs (PCM1690).

We had Surround Decoders in the 90s lol. That was for analog Lt/Rt encoded LCRS, the same format as the original Dolby Stereo 35mm format. What you want is an HDMI processor/converter, decoding a lossless Dolby/DTS bitstream to LPCM and spitting out up to 7.1 over digital. The reason this isn't allowed is for HDMI/Copy Protection crap mainly. But there is actually 1 legit solution STILL made and it's from Meridian, a company who hasn't embraced the whole "object based" surround formats and specializes in giving you the best sounding pure multi-channel music and 7.1 HT experience. They don't use HDMI decoding in their processors as they prefer to keep it outside of the system, so they use a specialized HDMI Processor that is fed from a UHD BD Player (That does the TrueHD and DTS-HD MA decoding to LPCM) and the raw 8-Channel lossless PCM is then extracted and sent over "Smartlink", 4 Digital Coax outputs, in pairs for all 8 channels. The newer ones use something called MMHR, an ethernet connection to do the same 8 channel PCM transfer, but still include the Digital Coax 4x 7.1 output. Despite Meridian saying its "encrypted' it's actually not, what is encrypted is their 96K upsampling tech, but you could use a Meridian HDMI 621 or 722 processor, have it fed decoded LPCM 7.1 over HDMI from your BD player and you will get 4x 8 channel pure digital outputs and you'd be able to feed 4x benchmark dacs like they did in the exhibit you were talking about. I use an HDMI 621 with my Accuphase VX-700 to feed it lossless surround from a Sony UHD Player since it only does lossy internal decoding. The Accuphase had 4x Digital Coax 8ch inputs for an outboard DSP system of theirs but it works all the same as I use it lol. The Accuphase is really an incredible Pre-Pro, shame they stopped making them. And I have an another 621 in an actual Meridian 7.1 system where it's used "as intended". The other reason why these don't exist from mass market options besides the obvious HDMI/Copy Protection fiasco is that surround sound is moving away from being channel based and moving to something that is spatially encoded (Atmos/DTS:X) and then gets processed and sent to certain channels to simulate sound in space as opposed to them being premixed. Atmos is massively overrated though, really good 5.1, 6.1, 7.1 etc is always gonna blow away crappy fake Atmos you see with all these soundbars now a days anyway. That Tascam was a nice AVR, I had the same one too about 8-9 years ago. It's the pro audio version of the Integras, and from the same TEAC/Onkyo/Integra family of brands. Good stuff.

Seen the Monoprice HTP-1 16? Not exactly what your looking for. But it had me at XLR out's

This rant is how new products/companies get created

@sebdhaese

3 жыл бұрын

Not really, cause it can't be made.

@kennethschoen7796

3 жыл бұрын

@@sebdhaese why can't it be made?

@sebdhaese

3 жыл бұрын

@@kennethschoen7796 Because there are only two companies that make dolby surround chips, panasonic and sony. And both of them have only one current day DAC chip that both decodes the HDCP protocol and converts to analogue in the same chip, so no way to get the digital signal out before the dac. Dolby would also never allow it.

I Think There are a couple ways to do this unfortunately the one that makes the most sense in regards to volume control is crazy expensive. Using a JBL synthesis processor or a commercial level surround sound processor with AIP. These units have some form of audio over IP the JBL synthesis this uses Dante. Basically imagine twisted pair or fiber optic outputs for speakers, these are used to connect to comercial amplifiers that have dsp in them. You could get audio over IP to optical or coax adapters. This is a crazy rabbit hole but it's definitely possible. Who knows you might be able to find a really cheap commercial processor from a few years ago on eBay.

nice pair of Design Acoustic PS-10s on the bottom shelf :-)

I couldn't agree more about this. I've always wanted a modern surround processor (with Atmos and DTS-X decoding) which can output the raw *digital* audio channels. But I'm almost certain there is a very good reason they don't do this on most commercial receivers... You mentioned in the vid about it "not breaking DMCA / HDCP" to have digital outputs, and that the Oppo Blu-Ray player is one of the few you've ever seen with digital outputs for all channels. It's precisely that - AFAIK, part of the normal licensing for the modern lossless Dolby and DTS formats is that the manufacturers aren't allowed to output the decoded digital channels directly. (unless they pay a hell of a lot more for the licensing, which is what I think Oppo might have done). I don't know 100% if that's the case, but I have a strong feeling that's the reason. Hollywood, and the HDMI "forum" absolutely want to minimize access to the bit-perfect digital signals that get decoded off a Blu Ray disk. And the same for most of the audio on streaming services. Which is kinda silly, considering it's not too hard to do bit-perfect rips of Blu Ray disks (including 4K UHD disks), and even streaming services using a PC anyway. But yeah, as far as most commercial AV receivers and processors go, I think that's the main reason they don't have digital outputs on them.

@electronash

2 жыл бұрын

There's also no software decoder for the object-based formats like Atmos nor DTS-X yet, AFAIK. EDIT: I think there *might* be decoding for some of the object-based formats on the latest version of PowerDVD, or something like that. But I found it nearly impossible to find that for Atmos, unless it was the stripped-down gaming version of Atmos. Not unless you spend many thousands on the full Dolby or DTS software suites for doing the encoding/decoding, which often involves NDAs and other stuff. I don't even know for sure if their own software allows outputting the raw digital signals for each channel, vs just previewing it via HDMI/HDCP. This is why I'm taking a different approach - I've designed my own PCB with a Cirrus DSP chip, FPGA (for signal routing etc.), and an Analog Devices DSP for bass management / room correction. That takes the 4-bit I2S stream from the HDMI board (which can pass through 4K video, and only extract the audio stream), decodes it (including TrueHD/Atmos, or DTS-MA/DTS-X), and spits out raw I2S streams for the DAC(s). The other-other way of doing this is to just modify an existing commercial AV receiver or processor with the digital outputs. It's not too hard to do (I added SPDIF output to a satellite receiver around 2001). But obviously it would require some soldering, to tap off the I2S outputs from the DSP chip, then convert to SPDIF/AES. I was just watching your vid on when you ditched the 30ft analog cables in your setup, and was blown away by the quality of routing digital around the room and to the DACs. The one big problem here is - volume control. (which you also mention in this vid.) If the volume control is done in the digital realm, then you are severely limiting the number of bits, and therefore the dynamic range at lower volumes. If you had SPDIF outputs from a surround decoder, you'd have to figure out the best way to do volume control for that, too. It would be far better to just have full-volume outputs from the decoder's digital outputs, then handle the volume control between the DACs and amps. (many DACs have internal volume control in the DAC chip itself, which is done on the analog outputs. Some of them have pretty good specs, from what I've read.)

@electronash

2 жыл бұрын

Oh, interesting tidbit... On many of the AV receivers that decode say 7 channels (so 7.1, or 5.1.2), the DSP chip has extra I2S pins that are left totally disconnected / unused. And quite often, it's the SAME firmware on the DSP that is used in the higher-end models which can decode say 11 channels or more. It's just that the the main MCU sends different SPI commands which disable those extra output channels on the DSP chip. So in theory, there are many models of "7 channel" AV receivers (from the likes of Denon and Onkyo) that could be modified to decode 9, 11, or maybe even 13 channels. That would also require some custom boards and some soldering, but it looks doable. At least on the receivers I've seen which use the very common Cirrus DSP chip.

@GAVhometheatreguide8226

2 жыл бұрын

Hai i am from India , i have the same openion about Atmos it's just bull shit with no audio in the height channel , i truly believe that auro 3 D has a better algorithm in it's auromatic upmixer which places sound right where are supposed to be , Atmos is a joke , Dolby Pro logic 2 had better algorithm and could place sounds in all the speakers , they claim that Atmos is a object based format while in reality it's just a channel based audio with fucked up algorithm

technics used to make a 5.1 DAC/decoder in the 90s SH-AC500D yes 5.1 SPDIF to rca think any 5.1 signal to basically any amp it does dolby digital, dts, pcm unfortunately it is rare AF

@xureality

3 жыл бұрын

not what he wants. the technics is specifically made to do digital to analog, which is the same thing as his emotiva. he wants digital (dolby/dts) to digital (7.1 PCM, as 4 seperate SPDIF outs)

I like your funny words, audio man.

Amen to this, we need more processors on the market 😎

Could you tap into the digital signal at the input pin of the processors internal DAC and wire that signal to a coaxial connector? Or did I just over simplify it?

TLDR Oppo-UDP-205 has good enough DACs! I would buy your solution if it was produced. However, for now, I do something similar using an old receiver and am very happy with the result. I am still running my 20 year old original Denon 5800 receiver just as an amp and using the Oppo UDP-205 as the DAC and processor. The Oppo has reasonably good DACs. It has a separate 2-channel DAC section for stereo that sounds phenomenal which I have a streamer hooked up to and fed into the CD input. As an added bonus, it is possible to run the 5800 as a 5.1 system and use the 6th and 7th full power channels to bi-amp large towers on the FL & FR channels. You have level control on each section of the bi-amp so you could lower the level on the horns or tune your speakers as desired on the fly. I use this to add or remove a little brightness on the high end depending on the album. I have seen the 5800 go as cheep as a few hundred dollars used.

@patrickprice7718

3 жыл бұрын

* Oppo UDP-205

You could get a Q-Sys system with a NV-32 and that will do everything surround decode dsp everything in any way you want

Monoprice hdmi audio extractor(H.A.E.). On amazon. $50. It gives a two channel, and optical output. I would place the H.A.E. inline between the pc and the projector. (Disclaimer I'm not certain surround is output via optical but for $50 it's worth a shot) I would see if you can use the nano digi to take in the optical from the output of the H.A.E. and output 4 stereo coaxial to 4 separate stereo dacs of your choosing for a 7.1 channel setup. Idea 2, if 7.1 isn't output from H.A.E. via optical, I have a late 00's model Yamaha htr-5990 with a toslink out. So I know that at one point there were manufacturers that were doing it, before dmca was finalized possibly..? Third idea, the RME Digiface USB Portable Digital Audio Interface is a USB 2.0 24/192 4 in 4 out day, and spdif digital interface. The included software looks like a potential solution as well. Albeit a bit more of an investment at $500.. buuuuut, it does look intriguing. Sooooooooo in this case is run pc usb audio out to the Digiface via the included software, then from there optical spdif to 4 separate dacs kzread.info/dash/bejne/onqfq7iLec6yes4.html

Digital Decoder be handy if you are into 2ch Stereo, if it gives you the Lfe channel from movies. Be good if they made a 3.1 amp

I was looking for this exact thing a few months ago. Hours of searching turned up nothing. What I wanted from it was a way to add surround to a stereo without using a different Dax for the fronts. Doesn't exist.

I definitely would buy that!!!! I have 2 miniDSP's, 2 nanoDSP's and 2 mini U-DIO8's. I have two multi-channel HT / Stereo setups. I hope Emotiva or Schiit Audio would make a DSP unit like you have described....Can't wait!!!

@martinjean5198

2 жыл бұрын

How much are you willing to pay for this type of product ?

This is why I watch you!

Very interesting indeed. But i wonder if you had a top of the line lets say marantz receiver what will be the difference as it seems that whole system uses space and costs more ? Would all this justify the costs/space?

Hey Z Just got this in my feeds, $299 Essence Evolve II-4K HDMI v2.0 / Multi-Channel DAC HDMI in and pass-through with ESS DAC outputting 7.1 through RCA But I think you might need volume control

The Expanse!!! Hell yes!!! This seasons production is notably better. Big money on those effects! My 7.2.4 set up I am moving to a few 4channel QSC CX Amps and I looking at processors now. Interesting take. My biggest grip with processors is changing formats. I have outdated my reviewers way to fast. And that theater should be a full JBL 5 series with biamp'd fronts with active Xovers!!! FYI JBL 530s on sale again today.. under 300 /pair. Bought 4 for my atmos/surrounds, 150 bucks each for decent surrounds...

@morris7025

3 жыл бұрын

The JBL 530s are sold out as of 10:00am EST - i just checked :(

@chrisj9008

3 жыл бұрын

@@morris7025 opps.. I ordered 4. That's crazy. I have a pair of the 580s I got a week ago and so far loving them. I have the bug to upgrade to the 590s for my fronts still. The base out of this dual 6.5" set up is insane, but it sucks my current done x4000 dry. You can tell they are asking for more power.... Oh the decisions... but unless I see that sale come back..I did want the 570s more than the 530s, but at 150 each they devistate my SVS prime elevations and I am going to have the JBLs do the theater room kit. And move my SVS kit upstairs to the living room. The price to performance on these JBLs on sale is just stupid.

@filippiasec

3 жыл бұрын

Not in EU :/

A single dac that has a simple dsp per channel would be ideal. Ultimate control

Am I thinking about this wrong, but Plex or Kodi can decode DTS-HD, Dobby-Atoms, Etc., so what you need then is 4 spdif connections from the PC and don't do audio out over HDMI. Yes you may need something like the VB-Audio Potato running in the background to help split and manage the connections.

I was thinking about the DAC in my PC. Someone told me I needed to buy some external DAC for quality reasons. I tried to comparison my ASUS motherboard DAC with the DAC in the Aiyima T9 pro. I couldn't hear any differences. I also wondered why couldn't the software synch up multiple external sound production devices on USB Optical, etc so I could use all external for surround instead of my 3.5mm 7.1 pc outputs. I bet software would have a hard time keeping everything in sync. This could also apply to a model where one company makes a set of multiple digital outputs. How do you account for any decoding latency of conversion on the many different devices you connect them to. The source has no control for synching it up. I bet it would be more cost effective to build the single source with better quality.

100% agree on the expanse being the best show.

Do you think an ifi zen DAC is okay to feed my stereo, or should I get an extra thing like this jdslabs odac?

Where would the volume control be? Digital volume control would be less desirable. You’d need a multi channel preamp after the d/a conversation I think.

Is there any reason you couldn't mod a home theater receiver to take the LVDS or CMOS level signals going into the internal DAC out to an external DAC via I2S?

You already have what you want. Both those boxes on your table have it. You just need to strip away the extra bits. Maybe buy a cheaper 2nd hand surround processor to experiment on? Just looking at that Emotive it's clear which bits are the decoder and which are the DAC.

I'm happy with my Outlaw 975 Pre-Pro.

Makes me wonder how to convert 7.1 and 5.1 movie audio tracks to stereo because if I listen to it without player mixer, just 7.1 to DAC/Amp to Sundara it’s quiet as hell, while everything else is loud.

I've just gotten my 560s sennheiser and i've got no amp nor dac. What is the best standard format on the windows 10 settings?

Yes!! I've been thinking this for so long😭 please give us a better solution than receivers

@martinjean5198

2 жыл бұрын

How much are you willing to pay for this type of product ?

In support of your comments.. you can simply hook up a windows pc to a receiver and look in the supported formats in the settings. Supported formats are the bare minimum 16 bit 48khz (or whatever exactly the lowest was). Compared to a 100$ schiit DAC there is no question about it. The Schiit covers way more quality formats

Z your house is awesome. I need one Where are you located now. Did you have your house custom built?

I´m with you in this

What about making modular case and sell separate dacs, amps,decoders etc etc for it.

I'm really hoping Buchardt comes out with a surround sound hub for their active speakers.

@adammkoss

3 жыл бұрын

Do they not already? Their WISA should be capable of surround 7.1 or higher....

thank you, thank you, thank you, take the hdmi and send it to an exodus multi-channel DAC or whatever DACs you want. What happened to the $500 emotiva processor ($2k - $5k)?