I am of a generation older than Simon and i remember the feelings toward Germany and Japan after the War years. Most people in the UK had lost someone they loved in the 2nd World War. Emotions were still very high. To buy a German gun, and bring it home, no matter how well built it was, or how good a value it was just was not done.... Few people could be so insensitive.

@davidbetts480

Жыл бұрын

Yes, I totally understand that because I am also of the older generation.

@alarmactionukalarmactionuk893

Жыл бұрын

Same as the german shepherd being renamed in britain as 'alsatian'.

@rupertmcnaughtdavis3649

Ай бұрын

Absolutely. When I was a child we were not allowed to have anything German in the house, probably because my uncle was killed in Italy by the Germans while serving with the South African Forces. Strangely enough it all came to an end when my father wanted to buy a 22 rifle ,and the only one he could get was an Anschutz !

I bought a 1950 Merkel Model 8 last year on something of a whim as I was just getting interested in shotguns. I paid $600 US for it, full transferred. I wasn't expecting a lot - 'cause I didn't really know better - but it has been a wonderful surprise of a gun. It may not be the best era of German gunmaking, but the value-for-money easily confirms the sentiments expressed here. I'm having it threaded for thinwall chokes and making it an all-around utility shotgun that still feels and looks traditional.

It is not only different hunting cultures in the Germanic countries that influence the weapon design but also social cultural. In countries as Germany and Sweden hunting is not only a thing for the social elite but also for the lower classes. That meant that most hunters could not afford one gun for every game animal one gun had to coupe . The number of guns you are allowed to own are also limited. It also ment things like detachable optics , you use a rifle without optics on driven hunts but with optics stalking red dear and wildbour in moonlight at night. (It is legal). It is not only guns that are multi purpose so are the dog's a German pointer shall be able to work as retriever,spaniel,pointer and a tracker.

@frecklemcapple6841

Жыл бұрын

Limited in sweden only, Rifles and Shotguns on a German hunting license is unlimited until now. Handguns are only two allowed.

@larsdahlen319

Жыл бұрын

@@frecklemcapple6841 Are you sure that is the rule in every Bundes republic ?

@frecklemcapple6841

Жыл бұрын

@@larsdahlen319 Gunlaw is federal law in Germany, at the Moment theres only differences between sportshooters and hunters regarding ownership limits.

Although an excellent episode, considering its length I am a bit surprised that nothing is mentioned about the town of Suhl, and the most known gun makers in it.

@tgsoutdoors

2 жыл бұрын

Never fear - They will get there own video 😉

@solidrib

2 жыл бұрын

@@tgsoutdoors All right then! 🙂! Just kidding... really excellent work!

@erlinglaxafoss2469

2 ай бұрын

@@tgsoutdoors their not there - which is actually neither here nor there 😉

Just got my AYA 20 bore #3 box lock from the March silent auction. And I love it !

This episode was produced well. Love the melding of history and craftsmanship

Stunning episode, thank you. Seriously, I've rarely been this riveted to the screen by YT content.

Another great video, I love how much effort you put into every single one of your episodes and always strive to improve even more!

Awesome as always thanks Jonny and team

These are videos that I can watch three or more times over and never get bored. The highly informative tutorial on 16 bores convinced me to go out and buy one!.

your channel is the reason i've gotten more into sport shooting. i'm just now finishing up the repair of a 1905 single barrel stalking rifle in 9.3x72

What a video this channel just keeps getting better and better. First class

What an episode! A pleasure as always. Will surely help me out tracking down a nice classic gun here in Germany.

Thank you, guys! A lot of info that I didn’t put head to head in this period. It’s clear that after the war, German gun making going into the influence of the URSS, a lot of the craft was lost and the environment of doing gun art didn’t exist anymore. In the eastern part of Europe we are more into German guns because it was close to us, much cheaper vs the english guns and more suitable for our type of hunting. As you mention, they are really strong built and if it’s fitting you, go ahead. My second gun is a Merkel Suhl made in 52’, not the best year, but it’s a very good gun and I love it. After 52’ they made in the GDR, in Suhl, guns with a stamp on the bottom lug with “Q1” logo on it. This, in the eyes of the people, meant that the gun was the best quality but in reality you couldn’t find a Q2 gun. This is a proof that suports your comment on the fact that between 50s and 70s the gun trade suffered a lot, even in quality. It’s a shame. Thank you for the good content! 👏

I fell in love with German guns when my gunsmith had my 1933 Purdey apart and he pulled the locks of a base Sauer Sidelock from 1895. I bought it for $300. Comparing the fit and finish of the locks with the Purdey's locks, one could hardly find a difference. Of course the lock design of the Sauer was simpler......wasn't trying to do as much. But fantastic workmanship.

Great video! The point on Austria vs German styles is interesting. Austria was essentially a German kingdom, with little differentiation until 1871. Bavaria and Austria in particular are like sister countries, so gun styles are very similar. We own some Austrian and Bavarian rifles, and they’re virtually identical in style. You have greater differences in North vs. South German guns and even hunting culture. In the South, hunting was a rural activity, which both farmers and gentry historically partook in, whereas in the North it was (and is to an extent) more associated with the aristocracy.

What a fantastically filled and informative video. The quality of this is something I would expect to see on the history channel. Well done.

Fantastic work guys, footage of the guns was sublime and content really interesting

One very large German influence on British, or in fact Scottish gunmaking was the trigger plate lock as used in the Dickson Round Action. They employed a German journeyman gunsmith and he brought that influence in the design.

@tgsoutdoors

2 жыл бұрын

That is fascinating - Thankyou

Brilliant presentation. One of the highest quality productions I have seen on KZread. Well done.

Wow how beautiful! Thank you for bringing those, all of the guns you show btw, to us!

I’ve been a fan of your channel for a long time! The quality of videos you put out on KZread is remarkable. But as a young German hunter I just absolutely love this episode! It’s very interesting to see the differences between the different styles of gunmaking and I really enjoy your unbiased opinions on the rifles and the simple appreciation of these pieces! Keep up the good work and “Waidmannsheil” as us german hunters like to say!

This video represents real value from both historical and cultural points of view! Congratulations!

Out done yourselves here lads, this is why your my favourite channel. If you consider Simon's quality standards, you know your both doing something special. 👍

Brilliant as usual guys 👌👏👏

Thank you for an excellent episode. How about a head to head comparison on the “core product” being a side by side from each decennial from 1900-1950, showing the difference between British and German tradition and focus. Thanks again for your effort and results. Stig (a danish admirer of Guns and craftsmanships)

I had an 1898 mauser, 1896 mauser, 1939 luger, walther pp. All excellent.

Great content! I was never dispointed by one of your films. I love my Custom build Boarrifle based on a Steyr 1912 Mauser 98 system. I love my 1964 build Sauer and son Drilling too

@tgsoutdoors

Жыл бұрын

Thankyou 🙏

German guns are and have been really popular in Finland. Heck, we liked Germany so much, we would've had a german king here if WW I had ended differently. Hunting has always been everyman's hobby, not just for the nobility but for common people too, although it was done for sustenance rather than sport. So, plain(er) german guns catered quite well for the masses and their reliability is great. I have a Mauser 98 sporter in 6,5x55 swedish from the year 1900, a Breitenberg Suhl SxS with a Roux underlever combination gun in 20/70 and 5,6x52R from the 1930's (unfortunately not much of info about the maker around) and a Merkel 211E from 1960, all in great condition.

Cracking video. Well done both. I spent some six odd years on and off living in Germany in my time and surely noticed the design choices of the people there. Forget the guns for one moment I spent a lot of time in the more rural parts of Germany where the culture is obviously different from the more modern and let's face it (Grey areas) where there was a rebuild in the 1950's plus. But in the rural areas tradition remained important like ant part of the world so furniture would be heavy wood and carved to a certain extent but modernity was on the back foot as such. No (Ikea moment) etc. The point in history with the wars was pretty heavy for the population especially in the in-between years. My mother lived through WWII and was never forgiving of the Germans until she was in her sixties, my mother in law was evacuated during the conflict and my father in law went to sea at 15 during these times. I understand why there was such resentment toward Germany after these troubling times but I can see that the style was harping back in time to a place that lived in the past with their guns etc. To cap this off my wife said that we were to take in a 'Belgian Shepheard' and I then realised after looking into what a Belgian Shepheard was that the resentment during WWI that people would not have a German Shepheard. Thank God these resentments do not last today!! Well I hope so... Cheers peeps!

Great documentary, thanks. Lots & lots of stuff to cover for sure. Some brands/models, like Merkel, & the post war Haenel-Suhl shotguns may have deserved some discussion

I appreciate the knoledge. I guess I'll start looking at the German stuff now.

Very interesting. I am currently in the automotive manufacturing industry and my company supplies parts to certain German OEMs. ThyssenKrupp is one of our suppliers.

Fascinating video gents thank-you. On a side not, does anyone know what brand of flat cap Simon was wearing in the beginning? I’m looking for a cap with that same longer peak. Thanks

A very informative and interesting video.

Many Thanks Jonathan. As a lifelong user of German guns in the British Isles, Simpson 16 GA, Mauser .22 and Sauer 202, I endorse and applaud all you have said. Quality guns, quality manufacturing and total reliability. Great piece and great background.

This was a masterpiece of videography! I'm an American of German descent and was mesmerized by the way that the traditional German guns blended art and function so well.

I was so so so so close to buying a Kreighoff this last weekend at a trap shoot. Such a brilliantly simple perfect trap gun. It took everything for me to not buy it then and there

@jamesroblin6909

Жыл бұрын

Copy of a Remington

@RagingOatmeal

Жыл бұрын

@@jamesroblin6909 really? The only experience with break action remingtons is a few friends have the model 812. I know theres another model that was made by Kolar too

@jamesroblin6909

Жыл бұрын

@@RagingOatmeal Yup. Rem Model 32. It’s not a big secret.

Hello TGS, a very interesting video.

In bavarian town ,Cham' there is still a man of Kuchenreuter family, being gunmakers/ gunsmiths ( in german only, Büchsenmacher') since early 17th century, owning a gunshop.

Hello thank you so much.really amazing I love Germany.

Your content is wild man. Awesome

It’s interesting to me that in the USA, since about the 1850’s, German cuckoo clocks were very popular if you had any disposable income. Both my grandparents did. Both grandfathers were very big hunters and sportsmen and for their time had large collections of firearms. Mostly but not all USA made obviously, but they also had a Darne shotgun, several British shotguns that were stolen but I doubt either one could have named a single German gun manufacturer despite both having ornate German cuckoo clocks and things like beer steins. I just don’t believe they were available or marketed. One of my grandfathers who was a part time market hunter and who’s family owned a lot of land would have likely bought one I believe had he known they were available. But then again, he switched pretty quickly over to auto loading shotguns for ducks because of the firepower. He wore out several A5’s but he still preferred doubles for upland birds which was more like actual hunting to him. But both enjoyed getting whatever new and better gun types as they were being perfected. 👍🏼

Wow, a masive thank you.

Every single one of these holts videos makes me so sad there isn't this history and availability in the states. I would love to own any one of those, and when you mention valued at only 150? I would guess that would be easily 2k here.

Hi, TGS! I really enjoyed your episode. Do you have any knowledge about Sempert & Krieghoff shotguns? They were made somewhere in late 1930. If you have any video about that period and gun maker please let me know here. I'll be notified if you reply. Thank you!

Regarding the 1905 trap gun: I believe German firearm proof laws had no specific 'Nitro' (smokeless powder) proof mark until 1912. Until then guns were still being proof marked per black powder.

@tgsoutdoors

Жыл бұрын

Very interesting

@adler1964

Жыл бұрын

If you can read krupp laufstahl then its almost certain nitro capable.

Awesome 👍

A Sauer 20b from 1928 is my favorite upland gun...double underlugs, side clips, third fastener, cocking indicators. It is so precisely made that even a small flake of unburned powder will prevent closure. So, I always carry a small brush with me. It's just a delight to shoot. I would happily bid on several of the guns you showed but suspect that the complexities and costs of shipping to the US would be prohibitive. Am I correct in that?

@tgsoutdoors

2 жыл бұрын

A 4 gun parcel ends up costing $800 per gun. Not too bad at all. That is through British Sporting Arms. The auction is tomorrow, and that scissor gun definitely has your name on it

@wholeNwon

2 жыл бұрын

@@tgsoutdoors Thank you for the information, but I find that cost outrageous. Open a Holt's in the U.S. with reproofed guns from the U.K. and the continent and I will likely be a good customer. Otherwise I think they will just remain "eye candy".

@allannantes8583

10 ай бұрын

@@tgsoutdoorswith costs like that it would seem that there are a lot of fingers in the cookie jar. Middle man greed.

Very nice

Thank You . Very Much enjoyed . Would you please tell me something about the ammunition used in the older gun you fired in this video , was it normal modern ammunition ?

@tgsoutdoors

2 жыл бұрын

I believe it is Hull Comp-X 21 gram

VERY VERY NICE

I would be very poor if it were easier to ship these to the US. Fortunately my lethargy outweighs my avarice. Excellent video!

@chickenfishhybrid44

Жыл бұрын

Yeah hearing some of those prices.. I couldn't afford not to buy!

So well produce that this "little youtube channel " can provide us with content that is a far better then Discovery channel. It's a shame that you don't have more subscribers then those goofy gun channels. Keep up the great work.

As a German living as expat abroad it was a nice episode to watch and yes, you nailed all dates and the background stories. However what caught me the most was the comment that you buy things or prefer things that are built in your native country, yes that’s true cause I shoot a Blaser F3 Vantage here in Thailand and there was no doubt in me by that time of purchase to look at any other gun from any other country… Great episode

@tgsoutdoors

Жыл бұрын

I wonder if there is any Thai gun makers?

@ShootingMatt1

Жыл бұрын

@@tgsoutdoors only a military rifle manufacturer. Shotguns are all imported and the ammo as well. Majority shoots Italian skeet trap and sporting guns in all qualities, Krieghoff is also having a fair share of shooters here and a few Blaser F3 are also used.

Perfect timing as I’m diving deep into the history of a .410 from Liege Belgium I believe was made by Riga Alphonse. Kinda hitting a dead end in him. Any info would be appreciated I believe it to be from ~1888.

@gunrelatedvids

2 жыл бұрын

try over at double gun shop forum

Excellent doc!!!

@tgsoutdoors

2 жыл бұрын

🙏 Thankyou JV

@redduc9523

2 жыл бұрын

@@tgsoutdoors it truly was one of your best. Loved every minute of it!!

@tgsoutdoors

2 жыл бұрын

You just liked the music!

@redduc9523

2 жыл бұрын

@@tgsoutdoors true and it would have been so much better if I had a cameo appearance

A 150 POUNDS!!!!!!!!! ARE YOU TAKING A PISS...... 150 POUNDS FOR ALL THAT QUALITY, ILL TAKE 5 PLEASE.

One interesting question: why did the Germans, and the rest of the world as a matter of fact, used the English caliber system - 12 lead balls in a pound etc, how come this type of calibering was the only one that developed universally? Maybe an idea for a future video?

@brittakriep2938

Жыл бұрын

Because brittish caliber system was earlier. I ,Brittas boyfriend, am german and worked for 26 years in a small Pipeline/ tube company. Steel tubes normated had been produced in Brittain first, so that pipe diameter in EN normation and ANSI in english countries are the same, you can mix both pipes , few exeption : english system 73,... mm/ german norm 76,1 mm, or english system 141, 3 mm/german norm 139,7 mm . But soft steel tubes have great tolerances, so no problems.

you all sill have your guns in the UK

And you had to show a LH rifle. 🙈 Very enjoyable video. Now let's see if any of my bids hold up. 😉

@tgsoutdoors

2 жыл бұрын

🤞🏼 I hope for my sake you win it

Interesting fact Weihrauch moved from east Germany to west after the war along with a few other gun makers as they where in the soviet occupation zone I personally believe if you want a quality reliable well designed gun you go german for a rifle or air rifle you can’t go wrong by doing so.

I have a modern Haenel Jaeger 10 rifle in wood. Excellent shooting gun. Owned by merkel I believe.

When you have shown us new shotguns...often very expensive ones....I have frequently commented on their poor wood-to-metal fit. Well, here we see examples of perfection. One gentleman who responded to some of my comments said that he believed poor fitting was deliberate and designed to accommodate shrinkage. I doubt that I could disabuse him of that notion. But here we see the reality: 130 yrs. or so of wood stability and continued excellent fit.

A Euro centric gun channel. This is cool as an American. Do you know any other channels for other Euro nations?

@kylianvanhoorn2859

2 жыл бұрын

Capandball, bloke on the range and polenar tactical are all very good euro gun channels

See, this was a more my kind of thing compared to the gold member gun from last episode.🤣

I know this video is about German firearms and manufacturing, but I think that it should be mentioned during that dead period of European firearms the real golden age of American sporting arms manufacturing was happening. Though I know that said guns were clearly less obtainable in Europe there were many affordable high quality options coming from north America and that took over the market.

In Germany hunting is in no way translated into game. Hunting is there a philosophy wich respects the animal and also his hunter forced death as a part of the human food chain. Calling animals killing as game, is absolutely inconceivably in Germany. The German hunter only gets his hunting license after a very extensive test that covers a very large area of hunting knowledge. The hunting exam is very difficult and half equivalent to a bachelor's degree. A German hunter usually has his own hunting ground or shares it with hunting friends. He is responsible for the wild animal population in the area. He reports to the hunting authority, among other things, what his territory is like, how many animals are in his territory and receives target numbers from the hunting authority which he is supposed to meet. The hunting authority then tells him which animals he should shoot in order to keep the population at an optimal level. When a population has become overwhelming, often wild boar, a driven hunt is organized and guest hunters are invited.

During cold war in German Democratic Republic was a Bezirk Suhl county, where were Merkel Sulh, Simson Suhl and Sauer Suhl companies which continues to make weeeery quality hunting guns during '50s, '60s, '70s and '80s🧐

Cool extended sales pitch…

👍🏻

What are French English or Spanish gun brands?

@tgsoutdoors

2 жыл бұрын

We have a lump of content in the back catelogue about them 😊 and will be doing similar films on those soon.

@kylianvanhoorn2859

2 жыл бұрын

French: Tony gicquel Verney carron Chapuis/manhurin Jc Savin English: Holland and holland Westley richards Purdey and sons Willam evans Watson bros Longthorne Boss and co John rigby & co (there are more than just these but then the list would be very very long) Spanish: Aya fine guns Grulla armas Bergara Larm Madrid Armas parkemy Kemen shotguns Armas garbi

PRICE

When I was 14, I visited a local land owner Lady De arcy Hilliard and asked her for shooting permission on some of her land and it was granted. My Father had a 12 bore side by side with scroll hammers, engraved with a beautiful wooden stock it was very old. So before i used it, i had for safety sake checked out at a local gunsmith. The make of gun was a webley scott and sons.I passed it to the gunsmith he shook his head and said " this is not a webley scott and sons because they never had an and sons" he looked at the nitro mark picked an old tea stained book " it is its German; (It sounded like) Hans Brune and sons of the Ruhr valley. then check the barrels, Yes its ok bit thin on the left barrel. Great i am off shooting. He didn't charge me. When my father arrived home after work i asked him about the shotgun he told me. Yes it's German. I picked up a pair of guns up at the end of ww2. I gave one to the colonel and kept the other. there was an engraver in his unit so i had the Hans Brune removed and webley scott engraved in. He told me that you were not allowed to import German shotguns after the war hence the engraver. Getting back to the shotgun for a number of years my friend and i had a great time with his 410 and my 12 bore. Hope you enjoy the true story.

Heir as intricate as ornate jewelry.

Another visually stunning documentary. Seems like every video contains a memorable pearl of wisdom. You must have some German in the background writing the script. Why are German guns of such a style and quality? As Goethe wrote: "In German only liars are polite." Their straightforwardness is made manifest in their guns.

It may just be me, but John seems very different in different videos. It could just be difference in gear or surroundings, but sometimes his voice sounds much deeper and his facial features seem slightly different. When I first started watching the channel, I thought that he had a twin and I'm still not entirely sure that he doesn't. 😂

@tgsoutdoors

Жыл бұрын

😂 we have a few different mic sets that have a very different sound! I also fluctuate in weight A LOT!

@tgsoutdoors

Жыл бұрын

I prefer the notion of a twin though

Beside of historical guns and hunting guns, the German gun manufacturers are known for building mostly modern rifles and pistols these days. That's the big difference in comparison to the UK... next to the USA there is only Germany when it comes to a larger amount of very important manufacturers of modern assault- and battle-rifles. I think German guns are mostly popular in the USA, Germany, Austria, North-Europe (Sweden, Norway, Finland) and East-Europe (Poland, Czech etc.). Also the gun-law in Germany allows you to shoot semi-auto rifles like AR-15s, handguns, precision rifles up to .50 BMG etc. - I think those are forbidden in the UK, right?! That would def. have an huge impact on the gun market - since Heckler & Koch, Haenel, Schmeisser, Oberland Arms etc. are not on the radar then.

I love German shotguns, not sure why.

Where was the Merkel o/u side locks 304-E and 303-E`s?

where can us americans get one??

@brittakriep2938

Жыл бұрын

German person here, Brittas boyfriend, no gunowner. Some months ago in german arms magazine ,Deutsches Waffenjournal' was an article about the german breakaction/ tip down hunting guns , including combination guns with both rifle and shotgun barrels ( Drilling / Vierling). Up to 1960s this ,german' gun style was popular/ common, but since 1970s, especially 1990s the way , german hunters do hunting in a different style than formerly. The shotgun has lost importance, changed farming caused much lesser small game for which you need shot, and the number of wild boar became unbelieveable high. Today stalking hunt ( Pirsch) is rare, Ansitz ( louring hunt) is still important, but today Drückjagd ( a variation of Treibjagd/ driven hunt) is most common, current hunters need fast shooting rifles, but german gunlaw allows for hunters only two shot magazins. So today in Germany, also Austria, lots of such german style used guns, but compared to production time, you can get them relative cheap, because german hunters no more want them. In the noted article was written, that a german gunsmith/gunmaker is specialized in buying such guns, repairing them and sells it outside of Germany, especially USA, he sold nearly 1000 guns to USA. In USA there is a guncollectors society collecting german guns. They know this german gunmaker/ gunmaker, they have the commections. So as US citizen, ask for this guncollectors society, they can tell you the adress of this guntrader!

And European hares

I find the embellishments on German guns over the top & garish.

This fella talking out of his ass right before 10min mark is just plain wrong. There never was a iron curtain in the British Channel. People did travel, even before railways. If you take a look at the family trees of pretty much any royal family in Europe you will see they are often related to each other. If you wanted an English gun from a German (or French or Belgian,, or Italian, or Czech, Spanish ...) Gunsmith, there is a big chance he would have built as many as you would have paid for. Pretty much all the big name brands have done so. But Germans have a STRONG hunting culture of their own. Not everyone wants to walk around in plus sixes and tweed caps, and drink tea till you bladder explodes. The British guntrade is the anomaly actually, they make only British guns, and if it's not invented there, they won't make it.

no doub, germany are absollot the best !!! sorry englisch guns can not smel on it

Those German guns are certainly interesting and very impressive, but also extremely vulgar lol

@allannantes8583

10 ай бұрын

How so? You mean the art or what?

I like more German hunting shotguns. They are more technically diverse. They have more varied engraving than English ones. They are very strong and reliable. Two in my collection are over 100 years old and work great on clay pigeon shooting. Your English snobbery keeps you from admitting it.