Is there honestly anyone alive who finishes reading The Lord of the Rings, puts down the book and lies awake in bed at night staring at the ceiling, wondering what taxes are like under Aragorn's rule?

@darcyliz9993

4 жыл бұрын

Only Martin I guess 😅😅

@diamondsurviver8461

3 жыл бұрын

@kill mnoj Tolkien is known for being a perfectionist also. Rewriting the books multiple times. Its simply Tolkien didn't care too much about economy or government info, Unlike George here. Tolkien focused on making a world with languages, deep lore, and world building which he very much accomplished. Lotr does have plot holes, but not too many. Edit: Especially the movies had plot holes. The book has one that is commonly disputed, but even that one can be explained that it just doesn't make any sense for the eagles to fly to Mordor.

@lancewalker2595

3 жыл бұрын

Fucking no, that would be insane.

@diamondsurviver8461

3 жыл бұрын

@Infectious Legume Man you really learn more surprising things about his legendarium everyday.

@Kondzio717

3 жыл бұрын

@@diamondsurviver8461 It's not even a plot hole. Tolkien explained it by himself in one of his appendices, that Great Eagles answered directly to Manwe and only to him, so they could not be forced or asked to help with the ring destruction until they wanted it (or Manwe wanted), and they definitely didn't, since Valars perceived Sauron as Middleearth issue which was supposed to be sorted out by 'middle earthlings'.

Tolkien spent 11 years writing a LANGUAGE for his novel. Believe me if he'd wanted to get into the sorts of detail that Martin is asking for, he would have. Tolkien wrote about what he thought was important. It took him a year to write the last chapter of LOTR because he kept rewriting and thinking about all the detail....he wasn't someone who "accidentally" forgot to put something in the books.

@BRAMB0SSS

7 жыл бұрын

correct, just a slight difference, he spend 40 years writing a novel for his language. He made a language, but felt that a language needs a story to really 'work'. I think it's very cool how he worked completely the other way around from how most writers work, first the story than the language. He just wasn't interested in economics. He said that in several letters. But also, he tried to create some epic myths, in the style of Beowulf and others. Those stories never told about the economics and politics. It would not fit the style of storytelling Tolkien used

@mwhitmore1

7 жыл бұрын

Excellent point!

@chunkyMunky329

7 жыл бұрын

What video did you watch? Because I never once heard George say that Tolkien "accidentally" forgot to put something in the books. You just made that up in your own mind. George is simply saying that Tolkien doesn't show the internal conflicts that are part of holding onto power. Someone like Theoden has conflicts with Saruman, and Wormtongue but these all come from the outside and can be traced to Sauron. And once Sauron's influence is gone, everybody lives happily ever after as if there are no internal conflicts within society. This is a big difference from a Song of Ice and Fire which is based more on reality.

@elishr209

6 жыл бұрын

Amaravi Well after all it's supposed to be fantasy.

@martged4212

6 жыл бұрын

Exactly this is just ridiculous what Martin said is ridiculous he should be ashamed

Tolkien: "Here are The Silmarillion, The Children of Húrin, The Fall of Gondolin and The Book of Lost Tales" Martin: "Yeah but what about Aragorn's taxes"

The largest difference is that Tolkien writes like a linguist penning a myth and Martin writes like a sociologist penning a journal

@AtomicWizard527

Жыл бұрын

this!!

@blingbling2841

Жыл бұрын

There is a vast gap of nearly half a century between them, Tolkien was pure literary genius , Martin is a modern novelist. Unquestionably Martin had to consciously or subconsciously fill in Tolkien's shoes.

@ROYAL_REBEL

Жыл бұрын

That means you've not read his work

@jasonmichaelmorgan6207

Жыл бұрын

@@ROYAL_REBEL Just because you don't agree with a literary opinion doesn't make either of us right.

@ROYAL_REBEL

Жыл бұрын

@@jasonmichaelmorgan6207 I’ve read both. Tolkien is for kids, GRRM is for adults.

“It is no bad thing to celebrate a simple life.” -Bilbo Baggins

@sirorliktheironclad

Жыл бұрын

True.

@nicolasm400

Жыл бұрын

Hobbits taught us to reenjoy the extraordinnary in the ordinnary things of life

"A wizard is never late. He arrives exactly the moment after he's done his taxes."

@crazyralph6386

2 жыл бұрын

Nicely done

@pablito4762

Жыл бұрын

And Bilbo is hiding his treasures from adventures with the dwarves 60 years ago because he is afraid of the shire tax office.

@jupiterpictureshow2234

Жыл бұрын

Beautiful

@colorpg152

Жыл бұрын

you mean a angel/demigod pretending to be a wizard, god the hatred i felt after finding out

@IanCarl37

Жыл бұрын

​@@colorpg152What? Why would you feel hatred?

This just shows me Tolkien knew how to end a story and Martin does not.

@dustinneely

8 ай бұрын

😂👍

@smartinertiarc3039

8 ай бұрын

What is more Tolkien finished his book in half of third part. Then he wrote a lot of unnecessary things. I hope Martin won't make this mistake.

@mwvidz324

7 ай бұрын

@@smartinertiarc3039Not a mistake, and he won't.

@AurelianoBabilonia

7 ай бұрын

​@@smartinertiarc3039"unnecessary things"? Poor, poor dummy

@Kacpa2

7 ай бұрын

​@@mwvidz324 Because final book will never get written given his continentally slow pace with Winds of Winter. He would have to be longest living and ever energetic elderly man to have a chance to even get halfwaythrough dream of spring...

It tells more about George R.R. Martin than about Tolkien.

@EsotericIntel

9 ай бұрын

GoT is nihilistic slop and its popularity says a lot about our times...

@nont18411

6 ай бұрын

He created (and didn’t finish) ASOIAF mainly to spite Tolkien

@AstroSully

5 ай бұрын

@@EsotericIntelBoo Hoo

@petergriffin6208

5 ай бұрын

​@@EsotericIntel All these comments of Tolkien fans coming after George with such vitriol seems weird to me given he only made one small criticism (not a very good one imo) of Tolkien in this video. You people seem to have painted this picture of him in your head where he's this arrogant fool who thinks he's infinitely better than Tolkien because "muh realism." When in reality that couldn't be further from the truth. George has stated many times that he is a massive fan of Tolkien and respects him greatly. Also while ASOIAF has A lot of dark, brutal (sometimes unnecessary) moments, it is far from nihilistic slop. It's kinda crazy how a lot of GRRM's hate comes from people who've never even read his books and just heard the general consensus of "Oh yeah GOT that show with sex, dragons, and people dying." and assume that's just all it is (not to say there aren't genuine criticisms to be had with the series, I'm too tired to list em but they're there.)

@tonyuppal8956

3 ай бұрын

​@@petergriffin6208I've read all Grrm 's Asoiaf works and additional works. Know all this about Grrm being a Tolkien fan and so on BUT to come out with a Pathetic notion about Aragorns Policies and taxes is just crazy. Tolkiens ended LOTR, hes not going to start another bloody book about Aragorns Reign. As an author GrrM should know all this and it just seems to me that he's just got to bloody big for his boots. To firstly put his work on par to Tolkiens then secondly to criticise it with nonsense then thirdly big up his work is just unbelievable. And yes it doesn't matter if it's his one and only comment, I knew it was too good to be true and hes just exposed his true colours, especially so due to his popularity and the many comparisons made between both Authors and their works. Lost my admiration for Grrm instantly, it was inevitable. To think his work is in anyway akin to LOTR and Tolkien himself is a Joke. If you know anything about Tolkiens history, his Scholarly endeavors, his varied academic pursuits, his literary poetic pursuits in languages and his many other achievements you'd surely come to the realisation that to compare the likes of Tolkien with a script writer for telly who then had some literary pursuits it's like GrrM is a drop in the ocean whereas Tolkien is the ocean. Fk me really pissed me off has George, what a Joke!

It was called "Lord of the Rings" not "Tax and Trade Policy in Middle Earth". And it's actually available to read as a completed story!

@duolingoowl920

9 ай бұрын

Tolkien fanbyos are perpetually mad that ASOIAF is a better written story in literally every way than the fairytalesque Lord of the Rings

@CursedAnqxl

9 ай бұрын

​@@duolingoowl920so that is why season 8 is the best thing ever and ASOIAF is a complete story, huh? oh wait...

@duolingoowl920

8 ай бұрын

@@CursedAnqxl What your stupid ass doesn’t realize is that you’re proving my point- DESPITE not being finished, it’s still better than the complete Lord of the Rings.

@joeysalazar98

8 ай бұрын

@@duolingoowl920Is it? Because I don’t find myself inclined to re-read ASOIAF as much as I want to with Tolkien’s works. Also I can live without having to read the line “Fat pink mast” in a serious context ever again.

@duolingoowl920

8 ай бұрын

@@joeysalazar98 Asoiaf is so packed with themes, details, and rich world that its fan base has remained strong for the 10 years since George published the last novel. People rereading the work over and over and over… somehow I doubt Tolkien would have ever had the same if he never released the last two books

The only thing that went wrong with Tolkien and his work was.... God took him before he could give us more.

@criminallyautistic8372

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly.

@CarlosAugustoScalassaraPrando

2 жыл бұрын

god does not exist.

@bigblungus1043

2 жыл бұрын

@@CarlosAugustoScalassaraPrando 🤓

@marcuscaballarius2159

2 жыл бұрын

@@CarlosAugustoScalassaraPrando Wow. Very smart. So thoughtful.

@Seanph25

2 жыл бұрын

@@CarlosAugustoScalassaraPrando wow astute observation Mr. Intellectual

Tolkien was in world war 1 he was in the trenches and came out of that experience to fill children born far past his death and cultivated imagination and creativity in us he could’ve just been another broken sad man but no he created the greatest fictional story ever he’s a legend among legends

@Exton_Z1

Жыл бұрын

Just like Frodo walking past the dead marshes, could be a inspiration from Tolkien in WW1 walking on those wooded plates on the trench mud and sees dead soldier corpses on those bomb hole covered with rain water when they wanted to take cover but got shot

@AnthonyJstark-vz4so

Жыл бұрын

That's cute.. Jack kirby beats anything tolkien👊

@AvinDov

Жыл бұрын

I appreciate what you’re saying but I just have to add one thing! Tolkien was very opposed to fairy stories, including his own works, being used as “children stories.” The hobbit was indeed written as a children’s story, but the LOTR and the Silmarillion are for everyone! Read On Fairy Stories, an essay by Tolkien, for a great deal of insight into the mind of the man.

@carltaylor2975

Жыл бұрын

I had absolutely no idea he was in WW1. And he went on to write those books? Dear God, mad respect to that man. I read them as a child probably 30 years ago, so my memory is obviously a bit foggy trying to remember all of the details, I should read them again. Have you read any of Martin's Drizzt books Bob?

@Sid271

Жыл бұрын

@@AnthonyJstark-vz4so what?

“Finally after a lifetime I have finished my stories of a created universe spanning 10,000 years from the birth of the universe and all the origins of all living things. I spent 11 years creating a complete new language to fit into this world and wrote backstories and lineages to every single character including trees. I can now end the story with a new hero King and all evil being eradicated. At long last a beautiful story and world comes to an end…” “Eh boss what about Aragorns tax policy?” “Oh bollocks.”

@Tokmurok

Жыл бұрын

😂😂😂😂 I have a hernia now you prick

@Yesica1993

9 ай бұрын

Perfect!

@nappa1413

Ай бұрын

i cant belive tokein didnt spend another book worth of information about middle earth taxes after lotr ended, ill never forgive him

at least Tolkien can finish a story

@javideldiablo440

3 жыл бұрын

In silmarillion Tolkien die,AND he's son finish the book.

@Liofa73

3 жыл бұрын

@@javideldiablo440 --- It was just put together from notes anyway.

@ItsNotaTuhmah

3 жыл бұрын

@@javideldiablo440 The trilogy was completed. GM can't finish his story for shit.

@javideldiablo440

3 жыл бұрын

@@ItsNotaTuhmah Man I said the story that completed his son was the silmarillion

@BoyKagome

3 жыл бұрын

........ - shots fired.-

Martin is just pissed that he lost Epic Rap Battles of History to Tolkein.

@SwfanredLotr

7 жыл бұрын

I was just waiting for that comment lol!

@spotsthenpc7796

5 жыл бұрын

Hee didnt just lost. He got destroyed

@onlyechadtherebellious2467

5 жыл бұрын

This was before the Rap Battle was made...

@xtrapcore9286

5 жыл бұрын

😂

@albertgunther3645

5 жыл бұрын

lmao

"In these cynical days when swashbucklers cannot be presented without an ironic subtext, this great 1938 film exists in an eternal summer of bravery and romance. We require no Freudian subtext, no revisionist analysis; it is enough that Robin wants to rob the rich, pay the poor and defend the Saxons" That was Rodger Ebert on "The Adventures of Robin Hood" and I think it applies here too.

@bigol9223

23 күн бұрын

Great pull, and great film.

I could never imagine sitting down with a book and thinking, “what in the bloody hell are the tax policies?!”

Tolkien was also a eminent professor, wrote a leading commentary on Beowulf, and completed his books without of getting a nice cut from HBO

@FraserSouris

4 жыл бұрын

JJ C Technically, Tolkien didn’t complete his Middle Earth book collection. See the Silmalarion

@sophiezajdela2205

4 жыл бұрын

Fraser Souris yeah but he died before he could finish it

@storm479

4 жыл бұрын

No offense his son didn’t have the imagination of J R R Tolkien, so the Silmalarion is a little wonky.

@Iron-Bridge

3 жыл бұрын

Tolkien was multifaceted for his time and circumstances. A veteran of the horror of trench warfare. A compassion developed from those real life experiences ( unlike an SJW where it's based on how their feelings are hurt), an intellectually driven man with the work ethic to create and oversee a true work of lasting art. Hence, deserving of legacy and respect.

@thomaskiser1187

3 жыл бұрын

@@FraserSouris but he finished his four most important books!! The story was told and done@

George R.R. Martin explaining why he will never finish his book series.

@avivastudios2311

Жыл бұрын

😆😆😆😆 He has to constantly be thinking about all the fine details I guess. Is that the joke you're making?

@jout738

Жыл бұрын

Like who cares actually how did Aragon rule for the next 120 years to his death. The book name is Lord of the Rings and so it will tell the story about the ring and now, when the ring is destroid. Its happy ending and so you can say Aragon rules wisely in Minash Thirith, because literally nobody gives fock how his economy was doing in his empire. The story had already ended, so nobody cares about how Aragon ruled his country to his death after the ring was destroid.

I’ll believe Martin’s got a point in how to end a series once Martin ends his series

@duolingoowl920

9 ай бұрын

He can't make a point until he ends his series? By that logic any non-author can't criticize a book. You're a moron

Martin seems to forget or ignore that LOTR is, according to Tolkien's fiction, written by the characters themselves, while he only acts as translator. Therefore, "he ruled wisely for five hundred years" makes perfect sense since that's how Frodo, Sam and whoever else contributed to the text perceived Aragorn's reing or simply how they wanted to end their tale. They might as well have used "and he lived happily ever after"...

@No_Relation_666

Жыл бұрын

No he doesn’t because it isn’t part of the comment. As he explains in this clip a point of his writing is to get across how it is for a ruler to rule. he knows it’s not important for the story of lotr, he’s not claiming it would be, all he is saying is that for HIS STORY the policies and struggles of the court is necessary.

@shannah151able

11 ай бұрын

@@No_Relation_666 And yet he never actually explains how Westeros is able to economically function despite years of debt and war. Cersei should have been starving by now. The minor lords of the Riverlands should have overthrown Frey for the allying with a man who burned all their fields right when winter's round the corner and there should be no people left in the North anymore considering Robb took max of them south, the rest fell victim to Ramsay and Thenns and Winterfell burned down, probably destroying years worth of stored grains for winter. He says realism is necessary but there's an awful lot of plot conveniences in his story that supposedly meant to show the grim reality

@No_Relation_666

11 ай бұрын

@@shannah151able that’s like exactly the whole point of feast, what? The point is it’s not functioning after that. It’s falling apart

@Hypogean7

2 ай бұрын

​@@No_Relation_666And the other guy meant that things should've fallen apart long before that

@No_Relation_666

2 ай бұрын

@@Hypogean7 so right after stuff happens is too late for the consequences of that stuff happening? Got it

It's simple, George: Aragorn's rule was NOT the point of the story in The Lord of The Rings :)

@kaoutherguelmame9572

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly!

@leoaaronc.s.5162

3 жыл бұрын

👏

@Beregond1861

3 жыл бұрын

You're a real 1.🤜🤛

@A.Santos1

2 жыл бұрын

Perhaps he did not realize that the name of the last part of the book is "The Return of the King" and...The End. Not "Anthropological and sociopolitical analysis of the years of the Rule of King Elessar Telcontar".

@brunoe1891

2 жыл бұрын

That's why he is writes fiction. Everything starts with the word "If". ;)

Should be titled: "Where George R.R. Martin Got it Wrong-Trying to explain where J.R.R. Tolkien got it wrong.

@nawarmasijah5447

4 жыл бұрын

😂😂😂

@elenamartel1822

3 жыл бұрын

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

@w.j.castellanos8879

3 жыл бұрын

Amen

@chaddafoe3105

3 жыл бұрын

Guys, if this..mildly exaggerated title kinda boils your blood (which seems to be the case for some of you in the comments), GRRM has always been vocal about his love for Tolkein and LOTR. Tolkein has been an inspiration to him and he even said he revisits those books time to time to this day. But at the same time, these are the questions that HE wanted to explore in HIS story, and these are valid questions. You can love something, and you can still wonder about these stuffs. I love LOTR, and the themes it tackles, but I also love ASOIF for its dives into questions such as these. Such as "This guy is a great person, but would he be a great ruler?" GRRM isn't talking about what Tolkien got "wrong", he's saying the stuffs he wondered about LOTR and the stuffs he tackled in his story. If it can be said that Tolkien set a convention, what GRRM did is a deconstruction. Not so hard to love both sides of the coin. These kinds of 2/3 minutes videos of writers are snippets of larger conversations/interviews.

@chaddafoe3105

3 жыл бұрын

@@oldschoolgamer-w4u I *am* pasting, because it's a kind of sad reality here that someone can seemingly pit two great writers with each other by just slightly exaggerating words in title, take videos out-of-context and it seems to generate a deal more conversations in comment section, (and this conversation is a proof of that), but click bait is still a common thing, so it should be up to the ppl to be aware of it and not fall for it. And again, he doesn't even need defending here :).

Dude, please. You're not even a pimple on Tolkien's arse.

Eight years later, we're still waiting for Martin's next book.

@Alknix

3 ай бұрын

Well there're a lot of places that need their tax policies detailed!

“George R.R. Martin explains where Tolkien got it wrong” Nerds everywhere: So you have chosen death.

@juun9401

3 жыл бұрын

FR !! everyone in here mad but can’t accept both are two amazing stories like bruh.

@thelonewolf6425

3 жыл бұрын

Being a Tolkien fan, I also felt that his stories had flaws. There is nothing wrong about making mistakes in writing.

@jessicascoullar3737

3 жыл бұрын

@@juun9401 I think the issue here is that Martin is criticising Tolkien for not being Martin. He can’t accept that Tolkien has a different style, theme and focus to him.

@jamesberry664

3 жыл бұрын

I gasped. This man can't even finish hiss own book universe before picking holes in someone else's 😂 lol do love both storied tho

@garlicjrmade6409

3 жыл бұрын

This should be top comment. No not this comment. The comment this comment is commenting about. Oh great elephants now what a tangled comment i have made.

Tolkien was contemplating whether or not to continue after the war was over. In his own words why he did not "...Since we are dealing with Men it is inevitable that we should be concerned with the most regrettable feature of their nature: their quick satiety with good. So that the people of Gondor in times of peace, justice and prosperity, would become discontented and restless - while the dynasts descended from Aragorn would become just kings and governors - like Denethor or worse..." So you see, G.R.R Martin and Tolkien Had two completely different views on how and why to tell their stories. Martin likes to focus on those " regrettable features" while Tolkien wanted to write stories about overcoming adversity with hope and courage. rather than ruthlessness and political intrigue.

@coyotew925

8 жыл бұрын

Truth.

@squamish4244

8 жыл бұрын

+iceman27406 It's irritating when people treat Tolkien like an idiot who did not understand these things. He was a Great War veteran, he understood horror and moral ambiguity perfectly well. But he chose not to go there, most of the time - although people who think he can't go there have obviously not read The Children of Hurin XD They also make elementary mistakes like complaining that Tolkien's villains are 'not realistic', when he never intended them to be. Sauron and Morgoth are Tolkien's concept of what evil would look like if it were given form. In that sense they are very realistic. I think the basic problem is that most of the people who behave like this are not familiar with fantasy in general and are only coming to it on the basis of the success of Game of Thrones and the LOTR films, so they never look any deeper and don't know much about the vast scope of the genre. Even GRRM's 'dark and gritty' approach has been popular for a long time. I'm not sure how much they know about literature in general either - themes like GRRM's are as old as the Iliad.

@horhehorhe1980

8 жыл бұрын

+valar In summary: IT'S ALL JUST FANTASY, WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT IN YOUR DULL AND FLESH-BOUND REALITY.

@squamish4244

8 жыл бұрын

Georgie Bolimz So...why did you watch this video?

@horhehorhe1980

8 жыл бұрын

valar umm... curiosity... I guess... but don't get me wrong... FANTASY is great... there's something about make-up stories that interest me more than the history of reality...

Tolkien fought at the battle of the Somme in WWI. Widely regarded as one of the most horrific battles in history. Where hundreds of thousands of people died in the mud and the rain. That life experience went into his work, in a way the George R.R. Martin can't really ever even understand.

@michaeldavis9190

Жыл бұрын

Yet he has the audacity to claim he knows and depicts the difficulty of war

@xXxCatsnakexXx

Жыл бұрын

He understands how to eat uncontrollably...

@foxysideburns5741

Жыл бұрын

George read comic books though

@kek7320

Жыл бұрын

The only thing George fought in was the dinner line

@No_Relation_666

Жыл бұрын

@@michaeldavis9190he does? he’s not talking about it from the perspective of a soldier but a civilian

"The more she drank, the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew and her thirst sent her crawling to the stream to suck up more water" -George R R Martin (A song of Ice and Fire)

@Yesica1993

9 ай бұрын

How vile.

@duolingoowl920

9 ай бұрын

@@Yesica1993 How vile? Do you never have to use the bathroom? Do you think you're just too good for it? Get over yourself and your pearl clutching

@jimbones5484

Ай бұрын

Lol.😊

The funniest thing in the world would be if at the end of Game of Thrones it was all just a dream.......Frodo's dream.

@horhehorhe1980

8 жыл бұрын

or Hodor's

@princeedmunddukeofedinburg

8 жыл бұрын

For Frodo !

@ajshim

7 жыл бұрын

If that is the case. Frodo must have had some good Longbottom Leaf.

@dlum201

7 жыл бұрын

Bran is in a coma since he fell from the window and it is all just an endless dream and nothing is real

@busq3920

7 жыл бұрын

Or a Westworld park.

He ruled wisely and well for 500 years And then he implemented a 7.5% sales tax The end

@OrpheusO-je9sd

3 жыл бұрын

😆

@The_Custos

3 жыл бұрын

Confiscated every sword, and started an open border immigration policy with the shire.

@husam8731

3 жыл бұрын

This is perfect.

@OrpheusO-je9sd

3 жыл бұрын

@@The_Custos Lord Aragorn confiscating swords? Are you mad?

@inxj5915

3 жыл бұрын

Lol nice.

He didn’t write those things because they weren’t important to the story. There was more that WAS included that was an appreciation of beauty, of bravery, of loyalty, and of love. I, for one, am grateful to him for the immense background that he DID create- the myths and legends, the history, the languages (including their alphabets) for several distinct cultures, their songs and poems, their choices of food and drink (from the Orcs, to the Hobbits, to the Men, and to the Elves), the maps (including some from the same area but at various times in history), the flora and fauna of the various lands, and even creating some original artwork. I don’t care that the economy isn’t 100% fleshed out, or someone’s political ideas for after the events of the story. It doesn’t impact the story that was told, while things like the Elven and Black Speech both are used to great effect, as are the maps with sections written in Dwarvish runes and Elven Tengwar, etc. Just because you put RR into your name doesn’t elevate you to Tolkien’s level, except in your bloated opinion of your own “genius”. I do enjoy George’s books, and I appreciate the background that he’s included in them, but sorry, they are lesser works when compared to the towering creations of Tolkien. George saying that Tolkien “got it wrong” in some ways is a criticism that is only his opinion, and I see it as hubris in my opinion of George.

@cbalan777

Жыл бұрын

That's a lesson a lot of writers forget is that you don't include something unless it is important. It could be the big battle from 1000 years ago, or a "tax policy" implemented yesterday.

@rechannel864

Жыл бұрын

Well if you take a deep reading to it you will understand the importance of gondor in trades they have numerous ports that connects westerlings lands. Hence where they get revenues

@marvolofarhel1578

Жыл бұрын

I agree. I’ve always been told that for worldbuilding and storytelling you start with what you enjoy and you add what is necessary. Tolkien enjoyed languages and histories, Martin liked politics. Both are valid options for great books, but to call someone wrong for choosing not to include something they don’t find enjoyable and doesn’t fit the story their writing, that’s just being a terrible person. Tolkien didn’t care about that stuff, so he gave us a generic line that says he rules well. I think that’s safer than explaining what he did, since we can all agree that ruling well is good, and we can have our own ideas of what that looks like. If he described exactly what the policies were you’d fall into the political trap of not everyone agreeing on what ruling well looks like. Write what you enjoy and what’s necessary, and leave the rest to the imagination.

@Green-fo8ei

Жыл бұрын

I fully agree, another point is that when lore points in LoTR are brought up, it is often unnecessary to explain the politics and economy of it because most of us have a pretty fair idea of how it works already. You can labour over how trade works but at the end of the day, we know that trade is necessary for a medieval civilization, and we can presume its happening whether it's explicit or not. All the things you've mentioned that Tolkien included in his books could not be presumed because they were unique creations, and their presence was necessary for the holistic view of the his world.

@Green-fo8ei

Жыл бұрын

@@marvolofarhel1578 Very well said, I think introducing that subjectivity would also spoil the entire theme of "good vs evil" which is, admittedly, a bit cliche, but beautifully executed in Lord of the Rings. When readers are shown that Aragorn is a courageous, brave and kind-hearted person for 3 books, then his 'rule' is described and you find you disagree with his politics, I think that would spoil those themes. I think those politics work in Game of Thrones because George doesn't entertain the idea of "good and evil," his stories focus on power, which is far more realistic, but a lot less emotionally captivating, in my opinion.

This is one of the most unintentionally funny videos of all time

"We never get answers to any of these things." "laughs in lotr appendix*

@jasoncp3257

3 жыл бұрын

You can feel how superior Martian wishes to feel over Tolken because he wrote the tax policy of every city in SoIaF

@ztlfire7047

3 жыл бұрын

@@jasoncp3257 I cannot believe that mans audacity.

@astropictures4396

3 жыл бұрын

Lmao pretty much

@tygrenvoltaris4782

2 жыл бұрын

@@jasoncp3257 Martin thinking world building is storytelling. I mean yeah cool detail but finish your story dude pls

@justBeOrDontB7568

2 жыл бұрын

@@tygrenvoltaris4782 Tolkein is the genius at world building. Most create worlds around their characters, introduce "tax policies". Tolkein first invented the elvish languages, then created the world and characters.

Yeah, what LOTR really needed to make it a true classic is account of Gondor's tax policy. Yep, that's it.

@lukeh567

4 жыл бұрын

Hahah

@lukeh567

4 жыл бұрын

Hahah yep. That's the sole reason we all read fantasy, or stories at all: to read about tax policies.

@manifestgtr

4 жыл бұрын

You’re missing the point. It’s not the tax policy or the “orcish final solution” or any of that. It’s those messy, everyday details that weigh us down. The things that make a civilization run aren’t always fascinating and imaginative ...but you can use those details to further your story and that’s what Martin is talking about here. There’s a sense of relatability amidst the minutiae that makes it easier to empathize with a character or his conflict.

@jackbrumbaugh339

4 жыл бұрын

manifestgtr Tolkien invented entire new fucking languages and cultures. My man just didn’t have time. The books took him like 40 years

@Sea-zu4bj

4 жыл бұрын

manifestgtr what I’ve heard is that Tolkien didn’t like to give away too much details or information in order to keep up a mystery or something like that. I haven’t really read many of his books but I’m interested in him

"But news flash The genre's called fantasy. It's supposed to be unrealistic." - J. R. R. Tolkien in ERB.

@megaloblabber2948

Жыл бұрын

you myopic manatee!

@halfadeaty

Жыл бұрын

But no blacks in Middle Earth, that's too far-fetch.

@fullmetaltheorist

Жыл бұрын

@@halfadeaty There are black people in middle earth. They have been mentioned in other middle earth books. I think the problem is that they're making characters black who aren't supposed to be black. A movie about the holy Roman empire would make no sense if there were black people and Asians in the movie because its not historically accurate. Just as much as it would make no sense if there was a movie about Shaka Zulu and the Sengoku period in Japan would make no sense with Europeans running around. Tolkien is known for his carefully made and detailed world building so people changing his work according to their own interpretations would upset more hard-core fans. His silmarillion is basically a history book for the world of the lord of the rings and it has pretty clear descriptions of the people living in middle earth and how they looked.

@callnight1441

Жыл бұрын

@@fullmetaltheorist you do know the HRE had contact and trade with african and asian peoples right? Sicily was once part of the HRE (staufers) and that had not only european, but also arab, hebrew and moorish citizens. so yeah, depicting one or two black or asian characters in the HRE would make sense

@fullmetaltheorist

Жыл бұрын

@@callnight1441 One or two travelers isn't proof of anything. There were Samurai in Egypt as well but you won't see any historical drama put Japanese people in an environment they didn't migrate to in significant numbers. Sub-Saharan Africa and Europe didn't have much contact until ships became good enough to sail across vast oceans.

he’s not saying where tolkien got it wrong he’s explaining how his writing differs

@numberc8420

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, this title is absolute clickbait.

@duolingoowl920

9 ай бұрын

@@numberc8420 and the braindead tolkien fanboys took it personally and took to insulting Martin for it. It's pathetic. They really are the worst fantasy fandom I've ever encountered. They think LOTR is gospel and the Silmarillion is the Bible- flawless, the divine word of God. Unable to even be implied to having criticism towards it.

@neroidius6915

Ай бұрын

Exactly, everyone in this comment section got rage bated

@theendisnear6351

9 күн бұрын

What's worse, people are taking his words literally and not understanding why he brings ups taxing - believing he is complaining that Tolkien didn't explore such things - instead of seeing it as a way to make a point.

When Tolkien's finger points at the moon, Martin examines the finger.

@duolingoowl920

9 ай бұрын

Worshiping Tolkien is extremely stupid. He's not the greatest writer to ever live. A child could pick up a pen and do better than him in one evening- and that's the beauty of the art. The way you all idolize and worship him as a God is pathetic, and border-line disturbing.

@TheCellarGuardian

9 ай бұрын

​@@duolingoowl920It's just a personal opinion that happens to be shared by millions, maybe billions worldwide

@jessejames5081

7 ай бұрын

​ that has to be one of the most ignorant comments I have ever read online.

@eg_manifest510

6 ай бұрын

@@duolingoowl920 I wouldn't say a child could invent numerous fictional languages and several centuries of backstory in an afternoon, but I agree that Tolkien wasn't the greatest, maybe one of the greats at the least, nor the deified figure some see him as. But we still must admit that his work was exceedingly impressive for his time and even now, and his effort and skill deserves praise. Martin too deserves praise for his works, as all good writers do, but we can still admit that his nitpicks are a bit silly and would've damaged Tolkien's narrative if included as heavily as Martin wished

@rickblaine9670

6 ай бұрын

@@duolingoowl920I think you’re misunderstanding how many of his “fans” look at him. I, for one, do not idolize him or anything. The Lord of the Rings is far from my favorite book. Hell, I like The Silmarillion more, which I never would have expected before reading it. But, also after reading his letters, I simply admire J.R.R. Tolkien. He was a very knowledgeable and intelligent man, one who could have easily become self centered and arrogant. Also, at least on a more “mundane” level, he was quite pessimistic. Another thing he could have become is one of those spiteful authors who write only to vent out their fears and frustrations about everything and everyone, with the result that reading them often has the only effect of depressing the reader. One of those people who maybe should have just kept a personal diary instead of publishing. And yet, no. While subtly - or even not so subtly - also putting his personal fears and issues with reality in his work, he always made it chiefly and primarily about giving wonder and hope to his readers. And that is more than worth of admiration for me, even if J.R.R. is not my favorite writer.

News Flash: I don't need to know about Aragorn's tax policy. He's the True King.

@puneetmishra4726

3 жыл бұрын

Hes mah kung

@crowtservo

28 күн бұрын

What was his policy about Twitter?

To me, the main difference is that Tolkien wrote his works intending for them to be myths, not novels. He never claimed omniscience over his creation, in fact, he said he didn't know all about it and discovered a lot while writing, like he was discovering instead of creating. Myths are incredibly difficult because they take generations to grow. Myths don't focus on the mundane aspects, they reflect the main conflicts, values and beliefs of entire societies. It's characters tend to succeed or fail in grand or tragic ways, it's conflicts to resolve in epic/unrealistic ways, because they're not about just a good story. They're about how people understand the world and what they hold dear and sacred. And they are never the work of a single man. That is, until Tolkien of course. Then you have fantasy novel writers. Less or more detailed, they take the forms and imagery popularised by Tolkien, but they cannot trascend in the way he did. They write more mundane stories. Good, bad, but just novels.

@gabrielluzlopes5674

7 ай бұрын

Yeah. That's the magic of the OG and TRUE high fantasy: to teach moral lessons that we will carry on for life. I mean, even Narnia that is a more of a fairy-tale with looser and softer worldbuilding has incredible moral and good lessons for the next generation, not to mention the Christian values ​​that were shared by both Tolkien and C.S Lewis that were friends, btw

The depth of Tolkien's mythology is unsurpassed. And that is just the Silmarillion, a mere few hundred pages long. Much as I have enjoyed a Song of Ice and Fire, Tolkien is the Master of this art. I have been a Fantasy and SF fan since early 70's and whilst I can say there are some brilliant story tellers out there, none have come close to providing the depth, the tragedy, the valiant heroism, the sorrow, the beauty and the magnificence that Tolkien achieved. The Fall of Gondolin? Beren and Luthien? Turin Turambar? Just wow.

Tolkien wrote fantasy. Martin writes fantastical historical erotica fiction. We don’t need Sauron‘s health care plan.

@K55365

2 жыл бұрын

We do.

@Noxturne09

2 жыл бұрын

Going by the orcs, he could do better dental.

@gianna526

2 жыл бұрын

What we really needed is the brand of toothpaste the Mouth of Sauron used. I'm quite interested how he managed to keep them in his gums.

@criminallyautistic8372

2 жыл бұрын

Historical erotica? Ew. Does he write about Washington and Lincoln f**king?

@JeyC_

2 жыл бұрын

@@criminallyautistic8372 isn't one of the themes of GoT is sex and boobies?

Interesting, but if Tolkien wanted to tell a story like that, I’m sure he would have. He certainly would have finished it as well.

@crazyralph6386

2 жыл бұрын

He also respected the intelligence of his readers, who could fill in the blanks themselves, and not get bogged down in petty and boring social and political psycho babble. Books, long before film and tv, were wrote to get the readers attention away from such earthly nuances! Surprised he didn’t also criticize Tolkien for not revealing the bra sizes of the woman of Rohan and Gondor also?

@Bjnbbb-dk8lz

Жыл бұрын

he didn’t finish his main book, the silmarillion

@JordanR

Жыл бұрын

​@Bjnbbb-dk8lz you're an idiot. Lotr was his main body of work.

@halfadeaty

Жыл бұрын

Just like he finished The Simalirion and The Unfinished Tales.

@JordanR

Жыл бұрын

@halfadeaty Yeah, lazy prick, dying and all. He only ever finished one of the most influential fantasy series ever written, an entire world, several languages which are still studied and updated today.

it's funny because none of GRRM's books ever mention a tax policy either and his view of kings as either drunken fools or bloodthirsty tyrants is much more simplistic than anything Tolkien ever wrote.

@metakarukenshi

5 ай бұрын

i was gonna say the same thing, all of GRRM's kings just seem to all be Henry the 8th and other tyrants,

@GoranXII

5 ай бұрын

Never mind a tax policy, we don't even get a list of coinage out of Martin.

@metakarukenshi

5 ай бұрын

@@GoranXII I think it’s modern fantasy writers attempting to discredit Tolkien to make their own books seem just as good even if they lack

@moritzlevold2206

5 ай бұрын

Its funny because GRMM wasnt discrediting Tolkien thats a huge misrepresentation of what he meant. All he said was how he put a different focus on his writing. If you were too look up what GRRM actually thinks of Tolkien its totally different he admires the guy and loved the books when he grew up. I really cant understand how people see this clip and are like yes GRRM is an A**hole because he was mean to my favourite author.

@concept5631

Ай бұрын

The Targaryen dynasty, prior to Aerys II, cycled between fair and just rulers (Jaeherys, Daeron II) and cruel tyrants that wiped out most of the people that could oppose the good kings (Maegor).

He also created a world that was worth saving and knew how to have the story make a difference in that world. If Martin’s story ends anything like the show did, Westeros won’t really change a bit by the outcome of his story.

it's true, tolkien never asked the hard hitting questions like HOW MUCH HAS SHE DRUNK? HOW MUCH HAS SHE SHAT? these are the things readers want to know!

@nagaraja1918

4 жыл бұрын

based

@chaddafoe3105

3 жыл бұрын

Guys, if this..mildly exaggerated title kinda boils your blood (which seems to be the case for some of you in the comments), GRRM has always been vocal about his love for Tolkein and LOTR. Tolkein has been an inspiration to him and he even said he revisits those books time to time to this day. But at the same time, these are the questions that HE wanted to explore in HIS story, and these are valid questions. You can love something, and you can still wonder about these stuffs. I love LOTR, and the themes it tackles, but I also love ASOIF for its dives into questions such as these. Such as "This guy is a great person, but would he be a great ruler?" GRRM isn't talking about what Tolkien got "wrong", he's saying the stuffs he wondered about LOTR and the stuffs he tackled in his story. If it can be said that Tolkien set a convention, what GRRM did is a deconstruction. Not so hard to love both sides of the coin. These kinds of 2/3 minutes videos of writers are snippets of larger conversations/interviews.

@thelonewolf6425

3 жыл бұрын

Your comment is so polite. No anger, hatred, judgement or trolling. It’s hard to find people like you on KZread.

@CoolAsianGuy

3 жыл бұрын

No. People wants a good reading. We want beautiful prose. Well I do. And nothing beats Tolkien's prose

@fabianoalexandre1720

3 жыл бұрын

@@chaddafoe3105 so thats how people call click bait nowadays? "mildly exaggerated title"? Interesting.

The difference is that Tolkien didn’t think that tax policies etc. were necessary for his world-building. He worked on building Middle-Earth for years and years and invented a world that is so vivid and clear to the reader, because of his wonderful skills in explaining how it all functions. If he thought tax policies important enough for his world, he certainly would have incorporated them. Personally, I’m extremely grateful that Tolkiens world is not filled with bureaucratic stuff that would overstimulate the reader and not help with the plot in any way. I appreciate that The Lord of the Rings is a trilogy and does not consists of 10 or whatever many books Martin wrote. The trilogy in itself is content and finished. For me, it feels exactly right, maybe because of the “lack” of “unnecessary” additions to the story.

@vgmaster9

Жыл бұрын

Well the LotR story was actually meant to be one book, until the publisher demanded Tolkien to split it into three volumes.

@Coldwater-sw6me

Жыл бұрын

Every author writes what he cares about. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Im not interested in Powerplays and psychological warfare either. Never seen anything near GoT and after this video, I probably never will.

@farahahmed8201

Жыл бұрын

Plus I think tax policies and class systems just don't remain fantasy, they become much more grounded

@lucasbinder6151

Жыл бұрын

Im sorry Lord of the Rings is shit lol its such a cheesy and terribly predictable story i cant stand these idiots who think George's work doesnt destroy tolkiens

@viki1604

Жыл бұрын

@@lucasbinder6151 well that’s a very definite opinion that you certainly may hold… but don’t get vulgar with it. And I respectfully disagree… 😅

Tolkien is The Master, Martin is an apprentice...

@clairejohnson4633

7 ай бұрын

Martin is not even an apprentice.

@paulinarapicka

7 ай бұрын

@@clairejohnson4633 I wanter to be subtle😂 But yes, you are right.

GRRM is like that one tryhard on the dnd table questioning every single thing that happens at the table. He simply is unable to just ”go with it” :D

Martin is a creative man, but Tolkien's genius far outstrips him. One's historically driven fantasy, the other is a straight-up complete alternative mythology... taxes be unimportant haha

@wMNWw

Жыл бұрын

"Alternative Mythology" So Fantasy? Gotcha.

This just proves that Martin does not understand Tolkien. Tolkien, who was a devout Catholic, wrote LOTR as a kind of antidote to our modern cynical attitudes, which are exactly what Martin expresses. It is meant to be archetypal, about good and evil with no room for moral ambiguity. This is because Tolkien believed evil was real, not just a human concept, or social construct, but a real and powerful force. This view of good and evil is expressed beautifully in his works, but somehow Martin completely missed it.

@ineednochannelyoutube5384

5 жыл бұрын

Tolkien most certainly did not belive or indicate in writing that evil was a separate thing from human nature. In fact he write in one of his letters that as evil is the use of force to bend anothers will against their consent, and that the capacity for this was inherent in anything made flesh.

@zachbaird2851

4 жыл бұрын

I need no channel youtube! That’s not what he’s saying; he’s saying that evil isn’t a human concept as in some subjective idea depending on perspective. Rather, evil is a very real thing that must be contested with good.

@woodnoteflute

4 жыл бұрын

Zach Baird Yes, exactly. That’s one of the most controversial ideas nowadays too. Is evil a man-made concept or a real force? This is where Christians and Atheists clash, haha. It’s interesting to think too, that Tolkien was a believer and Martin had said he doesn’t believe...and that really shows in their writing. It’s kind of fascinating honestly.

@wezzuh2482

4 жыл бұрын

@@zachbaird2851 Exactly.

@fantasywind3923

4 жыл бұрын

"‘In my story I do not deal in Absolute Evil. I do not think there is such a thing, since that is Zero. I do not think that at any rate any 'rational being' is wholly evil. Satan fell. In my myth Morgoth fell before Creation of the physical world. In my story Sauron represents as near an approach to the wholly evil will as is possible. He had gone the way of all tyrants: beginning well, at least on the level that while desiring to order all things according to his own wisdom he still at first considered the (economic) well-being of other inhabitants of the Earth. But he went further than human tyrants in pride and the lust for domination, being in origin an immortal (angelic) spirit.’ ‘You can make the Ring into an allegory of our own time, if you like: an allegory of the inevitable fate that waits for all attempts to defeat evil power by power. But that is only because all power magical or mechanical does always so work.’ ‘It seems clear to me that Frodo's duty was 'humane' not political. He naturally thought first of the Shire, since his roots were there, but the quest had as its object not the preserving of this or that polity, such as the half republic half aristocracy of the Shire, but the liberation from an evil tyranny of all the 'humane' - including those, such as 'easterlings' and Haradrim, that were still servants of the tyranny.’ " ... "‘Some reviewers have called the whole thing simple-minded, just a plain fight between Good and Evil, with all the good just good, and the bad just bad. Pardonable, perhaps (though at least Boromir has been overlooked) in people in a hurry and with only a fragment to read and of course without the earlier-written but unpublished Elvish histories [The Silmarillion]. The Elves are not wholly good or in the right. Not so much because they had flirted with Sauron, as because with or without his assistance they were 'embalmers'. In their way the Men of Gondor were similar: a withering people whose only 'hallows' were their tombs. But in any case this is a tale about a war, and if war is allowed (at least as a topic and a setting) it is not much good complaining that all the people on one side are against those on the other. Not that I have made even this issue quite so simple: there are Saruman, and Denethor, and Boromir; and there are treacheries and strife even among the Orcs. [Besides], in this 'mythology' all the 'angelic' powers concerned with this world were capable of many degrees of error and failing, between the absolute Satanic rebellion and evil of Morgoth and his satellite Sauron, and the fainéance of some of the other higher powers or 'gods'. The 'wizards' were not exempt. Indeed, being incarnate, they were more likely to stray, or err. Gandalf alone fully passes the tests, on a moral plane anyway (he makes mistakes of judgement). Since in the view of this tale and mythology, Power, when it dominates or seeks to dominate other wills and minds (except by the assent of their reason) is evil, these 'wizards' were incarnated in the life-forms of Middle-earth, and so suffered the pains both of mind and body.’ ‘So I feel that the fiddle-faddle in reviews, and correspondence about them, as to whether my 'good people' were kind and merciful and gave quarter (in fact they do), or not, is quite beside the point. Some critics seem determined to represent me as a simple-minded adolescent, inspired with, say, a ‘With-the-flag-to-Pretoria’ spirit, and wilfully distort what is said in my tale. I have not that spirit, and it does not appear in the story. The figure of Denethor alone is enough to show this; but I have not made any of the peoples on the 'right' side, Hobbits, Rohirrim, Men of Dale or of Gondor, any better than men have been or are, or can be. Mine is not an 'imaginary' world, but an imaginary historical moment on 'Middle-earth' - which is our habitation.’" ... "‘With regard to The Lord of the Rings, I cannot claim to be a sufficient theologian to say whether my notion of orcs is heretical or not. I don't feel under any obligation to make my story fit with formalized Christian theology, though I actually intended it to be consonant with Christian thought and belief, which is asserted somewhere, where Frodo asserts that the orcs are not evil in origin. We believe that, I suppose, of all human kinds and sons and breeds, though some appear, both as individuals and groups to be, by us at any rate, unredeemable. I suppose a difference between this Myth and what may be perhaps called Christian mythology is this: in the latter the Fall of Man is subsequent to and a consequence (though not a necessary consequence) of the 'Fall of the Angels', a rebellion of created free-will at a higher level than Man; but it is not clearly held (and in many versions is not held at all) that this affected the 'World' in its nature: evil was brought in from outside, by Satan. In my Myth the rebellion of created free-will precedes creation of the World (Eä); and Eä has in it, subcreatively introduced, evil, rebellions, discordant elements of its own nature already when the Let it Be was spoken. The Fall or corruption, therefore, of all things in it and all inhabitants of it, was a possibility if not inevitable. Trees may 'go bad' as in the Old Forest; Elves may turn into Orcs, and if this required the special perversive malice of Morgoth, still Elves themselves could do evil deeds. Even the 'good' Valar as inhabiting the World could at least err; as the Great Valar did in their dealings with the Elves; or as the lesser of their kind (as the Istari or wizards) could in various ways become self-seeking.’" Tolkien letters.

The title is I inflammatory, Martin isn't saying he got it wrong. He's saying he left interesting questions unanswered

"Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up she was shitting brown water. The more she drank, the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew, and her thirst sent her crawling to the stream to suck up more water." -George R.R. Martin

@zoebaggins90

Жыл бұрын

Yep, an entire paragraph on Daenerys's diarrhea.

@Yesica1993

9 ай бұрын

Is that an actual quote from one of his books?!@@zoebaggins90

@duolingoowl920

9 ай бұрын

Yes, realism is indeed the point Martin is making in this interview. You shit. You get diarrhea too. Diarrhea can in fact kill you in the wild, so it is mentioned in Martin's book. Cry about it

@concept5631

Ай бұрын

Seems like it. ​@@Yesica1993

@CrimsonCharan

7 күн бұрын

Don't remember that quote. Where's it from?

Tax policies lol. Was Aragorn a republican or Democrat lol

@makaan699

4 жыл бұрын

'a republican or Democrat' lol imagine thinking that the american two-party system is representative of anything but a shred of the actual political spectrum

@Texasguy316

4 жыл бұрын

Makaan 69 you kid, are so ignorant. He was just making a point. No one cares of his tax policies or the way he ruled, how he differed from other town folks in his kingdom. Example, was he republican or Democrat. Just using an American analogy that’s all. Sorry you tried to correct ones comment, but instead looked like a lost child

@makaan699

3 жыл бұрын

@@Texasguy316 Here we go, Americans on the internet not realizing USA is not the world, volume 558746231. Oof, you even literally call yourself 'Texas guy' xD Makes your cringy boomer comment 10 times cringier.

@Texasguy316

3 жыл бұрын

Makaan 69 Mark 1:15. Think about your soul, if your eternity. You’ve got a lot of anger towards a nation and for such childish and insecure reasons. You sound like a child. Ask your parents for money to buy the Lords word. Buy a Bible and accept Jesus. Sorry you act such ways.

@vardhan1179

3 жыл бұрын

@ I mean I love grrm the only ones I found offensive I replied them with same comment they won't see my comment ri8 it was like 3 years ago

You see, I believe this is the problem with Martin. He feels like he has to explain absolutely everything. When he says "Winds of Winter is like 12 novels in one", he is saying the truth, because Martin couldn't just not tell 12 entirely different stories at the same time. He had to do it on a single franchise. Tolkien, who had as much detail and knowledge of his world as any writer could dream of having, decided to tell the story of the One Ring from beginning to end, and left it there. The Lord of the Ring loses nothing by not spending 300 pages with the leader of the Haradrim that went to Minas Tirith. It loses nothing by not knowing to the smallest detail how exactly the hierarchy of the orcs worked within Barad-Dur. It loses nothing by not knowing three dozen names and backgrounds of the Corsairs from the South. Yet Martin has a physical need of having to tell *absolutely everything*. And so, instead of taking a couple of families, and telling the story of Ice and Fire from beginning to end, he had to take every single family and every single character from every single part of the world, most of which we wouldn't have given a single fuck about if Martin hadn't forced us to spend 500+ pages with them. Not to say doing that is necessarily a bad thing. It's great to see how the whole world interacts with each other, what I mean is that, if the price of adding those novelties (because that's what they are), is never ending your story or having decades inbetween books, then it's just not worth it. Tolkien told a single minuscule story within TLotR compared to everything he had thought of. So he wrote other stuff, mainly The Silmarillion, where far more stories, characters, situations and plot points are presented in far less pages than whatever long Ice and Fire will end up being. If Martin could've at least been at the level of what he wanted to do, great! Brilliant! But he wanted far more than what he could handle, and this is how we've ended up here. Edit: I also want to add that, at the end of the day, the way Martin sets up things makes Ice and Fire more like a romance drama with dragons than proper fantasy. I loved reading the books, he probably has the best written characters I have ever seen anywhere. But since the focus is so much in politics and social relations, the fantasy aspect of his work ends up taking a backseat to my eyes. Which is a shame, since I love the fantastical aspect of fantasy.

@Alix17

4 жыл бұрын

Your comment should be on top.

@karlzuhlke3114

4 жыл бұрын

@@MrJanoo8 Because the one motherfucker usually stays completly out of Earth and it´s affairs which is commendable. In the entire history he did only intervene 3 times 1. during the creation of the dwarfs 2. during the fall of Numenor 3. when he caused Gollum to trip.

@idek7438

3 жыл бұрын

Re your last point, I think that's kinda the whole point with the plot: the people in Westeros generally don't believe in magic, they believe in religion and "science" (the maesters, who are radically opposed to magic), but they're gonna have to reckon with it because of Dany's dragons on one hand and the Others on the other hand (no pun intended). While the Lannisters and the Starks and everyone else are squabbling for the Throne (the Game of Thrones per se), there's this looming existential threat in the form of the Others and Dany's dragons that they do not believe in. There is a very sharp contrast, I think, between "magic" and "politics" which is essential to the story and that's why ASOIAF is not a traditional fantasy story where magic and supernatural beings are accepted by everyone as a part of life.

@frustis

3 жыл бұрын

@@idek7438 Yep, reading back my comment after some time, I have got to agree with you. That last point it's more of an overall note than an actual criticism. I still think it's a shame, but it's a more personal thing, definitely. There is some charm to it being like this.

@chaddafoe3105

3 жыл бұрын

[Pasting my og comment here]: Guys, if this..mildly exaggerated title kinda boils your blood (which seems to be the case for some of you in the comments), GRRM has always been vocal about his love for Tolkein and LOTR. Tolkein has been an inspiration to him and he even said he revisits those books time to time to this day. But at the same time, these are the questions that HE wanted to explore in HIS story, and these are valid questions. You can love something, and you can still wonder about these stuffs. I love LOTR, and the themes it tackles, but I also love ASOIF for its dives into questions such as these. Such as "This guy is a great person, but would he be a great ruler?" GRRM isn't talking about what Tolkien got "wrong", he's saying the stuffs he wondered about LOTR and the stuffs he tackled in his story. If it can be said that Tolkien set a convention, what GRRM did is a deconstruction. Not so hard to love both sides of the coin. These kinds of 2/3 minutes videos of writers are snippets of larger conversations/interviews.

Martin giving Tolkien advice is like a high-school football player giving tips to an NFL player

@callnight1441

Жыл бұрын

not really. both are succesful writers with decades of experience in the field who have written complex naratives and big worlds. they are very much equals

@duolingoowl920

9 ай бұрын

Worshiping Tolkien is extremely stupid. He's not the greatest writer to ever live. A child could pick up a pen and do better than him in one evening- and that's the beauty of the art. The way you all idolize and worship him as a God is pathetic, and border-line disturbing.

@joshuaj.chinda9873

8 ай бұрын

​@@duolingoowl920Literally my point. Tolkien is not the greatest writer to ever live. They do the same with JK Rowling too. 😂😂😂 When in reality these writers did not venture into anything but fantasy. I think the best writers are the ones that travel away from their comfort zone to write in other genres.

@CursedAnqxl

8 ай бұрын

@@duolingoowl920 grr, bad when people like tolkien but fine if everybody licks george's feet, grr.

@CursedAnqxl

8 ай бұрын

@@joshuaj.chinda9873 regardless of what you think, I sincerely hope you don't write a book if this is your comprehension level.

Tolkien didn't want to create too realistic world neither with general economic system nor with big hierarchy even though his world was thought out to the smallest detail professor Tolkien wanted to write in the style of myths and legends, which he did well, with the addition of linguistics to his works so due to that he didn't write too darkly because it wasn't necessary for his work, he went through the war he had seen violence and all that fear with a trash so I suppose he just didn't want to mention it

Tolkein created 15 languages for Middle-Earth, he set up a detailed culture, a interlinking history and a mythology for every race inhabiting it... but, no, you're right George. He got it wrong by not telling us who Aragorn had Gondor trading with and how he taxed his subjects 🙄

@felipebritto9554

2 жыл бұрын

Man I Think you got click baited by this video's title. George was only explaining what he liked to talk about. He just used Tolkien as a contrast for example. Who said it was wrong was the fucking dumb video's title writer

@tanaypandey1771

2 жыл бұрын

@@felipebritto9554 Ur comment needs to be pinned , both are very diff authors and comment section is at war xD

@Deadflower20xx

2 жыл бұрын

To be fair I think he has a point with the Orcs lol. For such a prominent threat to not have a real conclusion it's kind of mind boggling. They couldn't have all just withered and died or ran away. And if they did that would be a rather easy thing to write, right? I definitely prefer Tolkien but I wish there was an answer to that lol.

@SpookyMidnightboi

2 жыл бұрын

@@Deadflower20xx it's pretty easy to assume that the orcs would be scattered into small tribes living in mountains and caves. Only reason they were ever organized in mass was because of sauron/melkor. Same goes for the haradrim

@emie9858

2 жыл бұрын

Yes.

Tolkien is a legend

@alicelucy1333

7 жыл бұрын

Samson peres sometimes yes, I'm currently writing a book about the 1920s, what sort of fantasy are u writing about? 😀😀

@sheflashedus

5 жыл бұрын

tolkien is GOAT

@gacogandalf7696

4 жыл бұрын

@@sheflashedus go back to the shadow

@sheflashedus

4 жыл бұрын

@@gacogandalf7696 you barely adopted the shadow, i was born it, molded by it, i did not see the light til i was a man

@gacogandalf7696

4 жыл бұрын

@@sheflashedus the ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent

Martin is in no Tolkien. Tolkien will live on forever. Once HBO stops making shows people will say “game of what?”

This guy really makes it difficult for people to like him

Big talk from the author literally standing on Tolkien's shoulders.

@XmostlyharmlessX

2 жыл бұрын

..while mysteriously still not being able to reach his full height.

@PLuMUK54

2 жыл бұрын

He isn't even standing on Tolkien's toes!

@leinardesteves3987

2 жыл бұрын

@@PLuMUK54 He's licking them, begging for inspiration to finish his books.

@davidsimpson8858

2 жыл бұрын

Big talk from an author who will never complete his work

@beasttowers392

2 жыл бұрын

Martin needs more d..cks on their books

This title already sets a bad precedent. J.R.R Tolkien was a genius whose imagination went beyond his life. He not only created the most interesting and beautiful fantasy universe ever, he founded 2 languages (Quenya/Sindarin) and wrote the most successful fantasy novels in existence. Most importantly, G.R.R Martin would be nothing without Tolkien's pioneering mythology creating opportunity for new authors and a strong fantasy fan base.

@entwistlefromthewho

7 жыл бұрын

Two languages? You do JRRT an injustice! Tolkien invented far more than two. Quenya and Sindarin are the most well known because of LOTR though. He also invented Khuzdul - the language of the Dwarves, heavily influenced by Semitic languages. He invented Adûnaic - a language for Men; Black Speech (the Orcs); Telerin (another branch of Elvish); Valarin (language of the Valar) and others he invented for his own amusement.

@codafett

5 жыл бұрын

Don't you think it's a bit unfair to say that without Tolkien other fantasy author's wouldn't exist?

@nawarmasijah5447

4 жыл бұрын

You forget that he also created elvish, and he created songs in it.

@margraveofgadsden8997

3 жыл бұрын

@@nawarmasijah5447 Quenya is high Elvish. Sindarin is the language of the grey elves of Doriath, which most of the Noldoran Elves of Beleriand adopted as their everyday speech.

@chaddafoe3105

3 жыл бұрын

Guys, if this..mildly exaggerated title kinda boils your blood (which seems to be the case for some of you in the comments), GRRM has always been vocal about his love for Tolkein and LOTR. Tolkein has been an inspiration to him and he even said he revisits those books time to time to this day. But at the same time, these are the questions that HE wanted to explore in HIS story, and these are valid questions. You can love something, and you can still wonder about these stuffs. I love LOTR, and the themes it tackles, but I also love ASOIF for its dives into questions such as these. Such as "This guy is a great person, but would he be a great ruler?" GRRM isn't talking about what Tolkien got "wrong", he's saying the stuffs he wondered about LOTR and the stuffs he tackled in his story. If it can be said that Tolkien set a convention, what GRRM did is a deconstruction. Not so hard to love both sides of the coin. These kinds of 2/3 minutes videos of writers are snippets of larger conversations/interviews.

So what I get from this is GRRM is critiquing Tolkien for not writing in the way GRRM would. What a take.

Tolkien could write a compelling story without having to write about murdering infants in detail

Funnily enough, when finishing LOTR, not once did I think about Aragorn’s fricken TAX POLICY 🤣🤣🤣

Also Tolkien never explained what condom brand Aragorn used, as well as Arwen and Eowyn's tampon brands.

@Beregond1861

3 жыл бұрын

Hahaha! Snap!👌😂

@tygrenvoltaris4782

2 жыл бұрын

Tolkien: and I didn't make my character ride a cactus!

@TheBooklyBreakdown

2 жыл бұрын

Can *I* be Eowyn's human tampon?? At least for a little while??

@dearthofdoohickeys4703

2 жыл бұрын

These are the real questions we wonder as readers.

@InhabitantOfOddworld

2 жыл бұрын

Given Tolkien was a Catholic, highly doubtful Aragorn used any contraceptive

Tolkien spoke in an ancient and forgotten language that GRRM cannot understand…that language is called “complete books”

George is RIGHT and he didn't say that Tolkien got it wrong, he just said what we'll find by reading Tolkien and how it differs from his own books, and don't think he's being condescending on his master's work.

Tolkien didn't need to use mindless sex to get an audience. He relied simply on intelligent story writing

@logicaldude3611

3 жыл бұрын

BURN lol

@michaelwills1926

3 жыл бұрын

Bingo Ringo ✊🏼

@derpynerdy6294

3 жыл бұрын

Why did martin write that uneccesary scene where she rides that cactus? What was he doing when he wrote those?

@jawadaziz5139

3 жыл бұрын

@@derpynerdy6294 lol he thinks his characters as human, and as human they are sexual, Don't accept all them to be one dimensional shit holes like LoTR characters.

@lilacblue783

3 жыл бұрын

@@jawadaziz5139 let's not beat around the bush. Sex sells. And to pretend that there was a deeper meaning to why else it was so heavily is just kidding yourself.

I'm very proud of this comment section defending Tolkien. THE ONE TRUE KING

@Argentum4761

2 жыл бұрын

One "king" to rule them all

@adityabhalekar3506

2 жыл бұрын

The comment section is nothing to be proud of. It's blind hate on Martin and it's obvious no one properly understood what Martin was talking about

@THI5GUYY

2 жыл бұрын

@@adityabhalekar3506 Thank you...George never says anything bad about Tolkien in this video...the hate is ridiculous.

@Coldwater-sw6me

Жыл бұрын

@@adityabhalekar3506 it isn’t blind hate. Martin is ignoring a simple artistic rule here. Art is subjective! Both have different goals with their works. To compare them is like comparing the Beatles with Coldplay.

@adityabhalekar3506

Жыл бұрын

@@Coldwater-sw6me sure.. but it is blind hate when you take Martin's words out of context, his point was that good people don't automatically make good kings, and yes while he was wrong in that comparison he didn't say Tolkien was crap doesn't deserve the shit he's getting in the comment section

To be fair, Tolkein's own biggest criticism is that LOTR is too short. But I don't think he meant there should have been additional story after Saurons defeat

"b-b-but you did it wroooooong" - man who never got it done

I remember watching the LOTR movies and I'm reading the books right now, and from what I've read about Tolkien online, I don't think he envisioned LOTR as a standard fantasy novel. He called Middle-earth a 'subcreation', which he envisioned to be an echo of God's truth. I think he saw writing LOTR as expressing his subcreation through literary and poetic means, not to replicate historical accuracy with fantastical themes written over it. Tolkien even described LOTR as a fictitious mythology of Earth's past.

@dustinseth1

8 жыл бұрын

Exactly. There wasn't even such a thing as the fantasy genre then. He was writing myths that dealt with deeper truths. He wrote histories that spanned eons. His world contains a creation myth, a pantheon of gods, epic songs and poems, and fully-fleshed out languages. It's mythology on a whole other level. Getting into the weeds about tax policy or sex would be completely out of place. I think Martin knows this though. The title is more incendiary than necessary, but I guess we all love Tolkien too much not to comment :p

@evanrivet5532

8 жыл бұрын

dustinseth1 Yeah, I guess so. But I love both book series though.

@evanrivet5532

8 жыл бұрын

Gweilo Xiu I'll be sure to read it then.

@Scarecrow545

8 жыл бұрын

That was exactly the point. JRR was a historian obsessed with ancient lore and hero's tales. All he wanted to do was create his own world with its own mythos.

@dilungmoveityafool777

8 жыл бұрын

+dustinseth Here's the thing. The fantasy genre has evolved beyond what Tolkien, Lord Dunsany, and William Morris was writing way back in the day. People now want "realism" in their genre. They want fleshed out economies, cultures, government, everything!

Yeah, no one wants to read about Aragorn raising the VAT from 18% to 19%, to offset the infrastructure repairs after the war and shit like that. Stop giving interviews and finish your damn books !

@wesleyhsu6659

7 жыл бұрын

Wasn't there suppose to be the 4th book after which talks more into politics before Tolkein died?

@wesleyhsu6659

5 жыл бұрын

@Sean Clark I don't remember what it was about but I think I saw of Gondor and Rohan having an expedition in Rhun

@supersuit5790

4 жыл бұрын

@Brass Pilgrim That's false information; there was never a "Sauron worshipping cult" specified - stop making up stuff

@chaddafoe3105

3 жыл бұрын

Guys, if this..mildly exaggerated title kinda boils your blood (which seems to be the case for some of you in the comments), GRRM has always been vocal about his love for Tolkein and LOTR. Tolkein has been an inspiration to him and he even said he revisits those books time to time to this day. But at the same time, these are the questions that HE wanted to explore in HIS story, and these are valid questions. You can love something, and you can still wonder about these stuffs. I love LOTR, and the themes it tackles, but I also love ASOIF for its dives into questions such as these. Such as "This guy is a great person, but would he be a great ruler?" GRRM isn't talking about what Tolkien got "wrong", he's saying the stuffs he wondered about LOTR and the stuffs he tackled in his story. If it can be said that Tolkien set a convention, what GRRM did is a deconstruction. Not so hard to love both sides of the coin. These kinds of 2/3 minutes videos of writers are snippets of larger conversations/interviews.

@chaddafoe3105

3 жыл бұрын

@@oldschoolgamer-w4u Barely, if anything at all, of what you're saying is relevant to what I am saying. And I'm not really even defending him, cause I don't have to defend one of the most successful writers of fiction on the planet from criticisms that aren't valid- just merely gave context to the 2 minute video (which a lot already know) and pointed out the exaggerated title.

At least Tolkien didn't fill his books with sex, lust, incest and all these disgusting things. It was 100% pure and beautiful story.❤

People don’t seem to get that Martin isn’t bashing Tolkien. He’s simply saying that the ending of Lord of the Rings’ simplicity is what inspired him to do what he does with A Song of Ice and Fire. He wants to examine a story Tolkien never discussed, because he found that interesting.

@jasonfrancese8359

Жыл бұрын

@Robert J Fair. I just don’t like the title. He doesn’t say Tolkien got it wrong, he just was saying what he thought at the end of Return of the King.

@Mens_Rea

Жыл бұрын

Yes, a lot of fan boys are triggered without any reason (I love both authors)

@WildeMermaid

Жыл бұрын

Exactly!

@klefthoofrobert787

Жыл бұрын

And what exactly is he doing with a song of Ice and fire? not finishing the 6th out of 7 books for 12 years now, while releasing 9 other books in the universe where he didn't even finish the main story for. Also he relies too much on shock value, killing off many of your main characters was a surprise, but doing the same in his prequel books just kills the enthusiasm or surprise.

@jasonfrancese8359

Жыл бұрын

@@klefthoofrobert787 I’m not defending him not releasing the next book. Though, speaking as an aspiring writer myself, I can definitely understand both burnout and being scared to even come close to finishing. But I didn’t even mention it, the video doesn’t mention it, and no one else in this thread mentioned it, so why are you?

The beauty of Tolkien is that he didn't set out to explain every detail to us - read his Leaf by Niggle and you will get a sense of why Tolkien was so popular even before the movies

@OrpheusO-je9sd

3 жыл бұрын

I actually read that like a week ago. Nicely said.

@chaddafoe3105

3 жыл бұрын

Guys, if this..mildly exaggerated title kinda boils your blood (which seems to be the case for some of you in the comments), GRRM has always been vocal about his love for Tolkein and LOTR. Tolkein has been an inspiration to him and he even said he revisits those books time to time to this day. But at the same time, these are the questions that HE wanted to explore in HIS story, and these are valid questions. You can love something, and you can still wonder about these stuffs. I love LOTR, and the themes it tackles, but I also love ASOIF for its dives into questions such as these. Such as "This guy is a great person, but would he be a great ruler?" GRRM isn't talking about what Tolkien got "wrong", he's saying the stuffs he wondered about LOTR and the stuffs he tackled in his story. If it can be said that Tolkien set a convention, what GRRM did is a deconstruction. Not so hard to love both sides of the coin. These kinds of 2/3 minutes videos of writers are snippets of larger conversations/interviews.

@mikelong7542

3 жыл бұрын

Absolutely. I read The Hobbit as a teen and thought, nice story, sort of simple, looked at LOTR and thought 3 books! omg, that will take too long and just skipped around in it. A few years later read Leaf by Niggle....and got hooked. I understood it then, and then read LOTR, The Hobbit again, The Sil, the rest, still enjoy it all years later. .

Aragorn ruled wisely and well after Sauron was defeated. Martin hasn't finished his series yet. Very significant.

@libitina8284

3 жыл бұрын

Came from future he hasn't finished the series

@TheBurak47

3 жыл бұрын

Lol it almost been a decade

@generalkenobi1748

3 жыл бұрын

@@libitina8284 HAHAH

@craigtucker309

3 жыл бұрын

Hi I'm from the year 484849200, he still hasn't finished.

@perryphillip6306

3 жыл бұрын

@@craigtucker309 L M F A O =) THANK YOU !!!

Tolkien said he "rules wisely and well" because explaining the tax policy wasn't part of THAT story.

I still love Tolkien books. He published his novels decades ago and it’s still amazing

The problem I have with Martin’s assessment of Tolkien - as much as I respect Martin - is that he’s ignoring Tolkien’s objective. Tolkien created a mythology, a narrative consisting of heroic characters doing heroic deeds. These characters transcend the mundane grind of life, and that’s what makes us want to read a story. Discussions of tax policy, racial strife, and prejudice are not really apropos in fantasy, Granted, I find Martin’s work entertaining, and he’s a fabulous writer; however, I don’t see anything heroic in his characters. The ones who survive are simply a. clever, or b. really damn lucky. Tolkien vs. Martin is analogous to romance vs. porn.

@felipebritto9554

2 жыл бұрын

I think you're arguing with a wall GRRM just said how he likes to write, his comments about Aragorn, for example, he just says he would give a whole context to the situation cause he is really into details and loves to talk about it Don't bite the bait in the title, anyone who paid attention UNBIASED can see he never said "Tolkien got it wrong"

@porkadillo9752

2 жыл бұрын

@@felipebritto9554 Thaaaaank you. This comment section is filled with people getting butthurt over something only the video maker said. I've no doubt that GRRM respects Tolkien immensely and I can't ever imagine him saying that what Tolkien did with his books was "wrong." All George is saying is that he likes his books to have a heavy focus on politics and economics and the only reason he brought up Tolkien was as a foil to his own writing style.

@felipebritto9554

2 жыл бұрын

@@porkadillo9752 RIGHT???? IT'S EXACTLY THAT!!! He never said bad things about Tolkien. Man I can't believe so many people got click baited

@worganfreeman2694

2 жыл бұрын

romance vs. porn. LOL that is genius.

@Abad255

2 жыл бұрын

@@worganfreeman2694 Yess 🤣🤣

Basically: "Why didn't Tolkien turn his legendarium into a sociology thesis?" This guy's supposed to be a fantasy writer?

@Fomalhaut_Antares

2 жыл бұрын

He knows his audience. 🤣

@lukasfolkner4618

2 жыл бұрын

I get what you mean but no, he’s supposed to be a dominos delivery driver

@Fomalhaut_Antares

2 жыл бұрын

@@lukasfolkner4618 he looks like one.

@tygrenvoltaris4782

2 жыл бұрын

@@lukasfolkner4618 HAHAHAHAHA

@Abad255

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly

"And then, Heimdall will blow his might horn announcing Ragnarok, and Loki will come in his cursed ship with the unworthy dead to wage war against Asgard, accompanied by the Jotun and the fire giants, and fall in ruinous combat while also killing Heimdall. The monstrous wolves Haiti and Skol will devour the Sun and the Moon, and Fenrir finally kills the allfather Odin, being slain by his son Vengeance. Then, Thor and Jormungandr will engage in deadly battle, with Thor finally slain the serpent. Covered in the poisonous blood of the serpent of Midgard, Thor laughs, exclaiming "I did it! I've finally slain the serpent of Midgard!", then Thor takes 7 steps and falls to the ground, dead". GRRM: "but what was Odin's tax policy?"

When gigachad Tolkien tells you Aragorn ruled wisely and well you simply accept it, Martin.

When you read every single Tolkien book you realize that everything can't even compare to his world creating. It's just insane how enormous it is.

@EpicMathTime

2 жыл бұрын

The only thing that compares is SCP, but that's only because it is a collaborative work.

@declanrex9435

2 жыл бұрын

@@EpicMathTime I would only put that even close to tolkien if we are just talking size, but depth and intricacy and meaning, nothing comes close to tolkien at all.

@bcg6760

2 жыл бұрын

ummm.... warhammer

@declanrex9435

2 жыл бұрын

@@bcg6760 no where close because it’s made by a bunch of random people, so it’s very inconsistent.

Tolkien wrote a fantasy, a myth not some quasi Marxist essay. Myths are meant to bi simple, but powerful, which is exactly what Tolkien achieved. Also Martin's "deep" understanding of politics goes like this "X backstabs Y. Than Z backstabs X.... ad infinitum".

@HolyknightVader999

5 жыл бұрын

It's basically GRRM whining about how rich people are assholes. It gets old after a while. Heck, Tywin is more respectable in the show than he is in the book. The show-writers made him fantasy Machiavelli, but the book has him just be a rich douchebag.

@cool06alt

4 жыл бұрын

@@HolyknightVader999 Tyrion was also more extremely good in the show than in the book, for instance the book version he was basically a rapist of a slave.

@HolyknightVader999

4 жыл бұрын

@@cool06alt I believe the word you're looking for is "Saint Tyrion".

@vardhan1179

3 жыл бұрын

you people see this one interview and start trolling him and say complete his books but he wrote a really complex story than lotr in this period and there was other interview where he said he was a fan of lotr and it was his inspiration to write asoiaf just watch that you'll get it. Here in this interview he's just saying tolkien didn't say anything about aragorn's rule may be that doubt made him write lotr even that is kind of inspiration just a 2 mins video and you guys are pissed off about one thing and while there are other interviews where he said many great things about lotr first speak some sense this is the reason why i don't like lotr fans, getting triggered even for very small issue

@lawdogattorneyatlaw4886

3 жыл бұрын

chalakapalli sai vardhan “he writes a really complex story than lotr” You mean he set up a bunch of loose ends that he promises to tie together in the end (it will make sense dude trust me its super complex) while lifting events directly from history yet dumbing them down tremendously.

Martin is like “sex? Bloody fight? More sex? Brutal murder? Sex? Did i mention murder? Oh yeah and everyone dies” 😂😂😂

It’s not relevant what Aragorn’s tax policy is. As for great things, he pardoned the Easterlings who surrendered, he pardoned the Haradrim despite later wars with them and the Easterlings alongside Eomer, he forbad the big folk from entering the Shire, restored Arnor and Gondor to their former glory and renewed the Oath with Rohan, thus allowing the Rohirrim to keep Calenardhon. He also justly judged Baragond by recognising his loyalty to Faramir while not excusing the blood he shed. The implication we get is Aragorn was a great king and continued to be such till his passing. I’m sure he’d treat his subjects well.

Marty doesn't seem to understand that Tolkien's works are more about the greater themes of the story and not the micro details of how much it hurts to get shot in the nuts with a crossbow.

The calibre of Tolkien is beyond this man

@callnight1441

Жыл бұрын

@@krishanchoudhury yeah, all the commenters seem to think he hates tolkien fot it. but he doesnt. hes just pointing out something

@rumrunner8019

11 ай бұрын

The caliber of Robert E Howard was far beyond (and before) Tolkien

@farofias81

10 ай бұрын

would say it's unseen type of (caliber), unknown before, not yet repeated since...

@farofias81

10 ай бұрын

@@rumrunner8019 in what exactly? extravagant imagination perhaps, what else?

@Ben-nl2nr

10 ай бұрын

@@rumrunner8019Howard was a mediocre fantasy writer at best- just because he came before Tolkien doesn’t mean he was higher caliber

I love that George never specifies anything about the tax policies of his rulers, either. That and Tolkien gives way more information than we even need to reconstruct some broad strokes ideas if we *really* want to. So.... not only does George not meet his own weirdly specific standard, he apparently didn't pay attention to what lore Tolkien *actually* wrote.

Martin wishes he could write like Tolkien who created the mytho-poetic genre. He created epochs and ages, worlds with maps and legends; people groups and each of their languages, which some people actually speak now.

@duolingoowl920

9 ай бұрын

There's writing and then there's worldbuilding. Martin's characters are more depthful, realistic, and emotionally poignant than any of Tolkien's fairytale archetypes.

@thedude9199

9 ай бұрын

@@duolingoowl920 Nah.

@gabrielluzlopes5674

7 ай бұрын

​@@duolingoowl920i think Frodo getting ptsd from his hellish journey to destroy the one ring, being unable to return to a normal life after it and sailing to the literal Middle-Earth's Heaven to heal himself is emotionally poignant enough even for a chosen one hero. Teories says that Tolkien based Frodo's trauma on his own for he was a WW1 vet, and as he was also catholic i believe Frodo sailing to the Undying Lands(Middle Earth's Heaven) shows Tolkien's hopes about the after life. So Frodo is everything but a fairy tale archetype

@gabrielluzlopes5674

6 ай бұрын

@@shivanshsharma3487 yep

Tolkien will finish "Winds of Winter" before George Martin.

Literally has an entire host of supporting appendixes and books to explain the history of lineage after lineage. The differing variations of Elves, the complete history of middle earth through the three ages and extensive backstory as well as an entire language with grammar rules all built from scratch, but apparently it wasn't deep enough..... bruh

@felipebritto9554

2 жыл бұрын

George just gave one example to serve only as ONE example. He is right, there is no discussion about it. He was just trying to explain how he writes, not that Tolkien ways were wrong, and showed a phrase - as example - that was poor in context. Where he says that Tolkien did not explained enough about the world?

@goodinternetuser1943

2 жыл бұрын

@@felipebritto9554 I declare your post to be cope of the highest order

@projectx5154

2 жыл бұрын

I think Martin is well aware of all his works. You miss the point here. Martin complains how little depth Tolkien gives to the everyday life of the kingdoms, kings etc. What their policies, economies, administration is like. Tolkien doesn't describe that even in his other works like Silmarillion, unfinished tales, history of ME etc. That's what Martin was talking about. I disagree with Martin and like how Tolkien went on his works but you missed the point completely

@sekijou3622

Жыл бұрын

@@felipebritto9554 George said some pretentious ass shit here

@felipebritto9554

Жыл бұрын

@@goodinternetuser1943 it's just text interpretation which most people completely failed here... Have you watched the whole interview? I watched, I can say that you were poorly clickbaited and the question George Martin answered was not the one in this video's title

The video title is really misleading, GRRM is not criticizing Tolkien but explaining how he wanted to explore something that Tolkien didn't. He's not saying Tolkien should have done that though

The nerve on this man trying to correct Tolkien. It's like Michael Bay trying to correct Stanley Kubrick...

instead of finishing his books, he was really out here..., giving interviews about tax policies?

Tolkien didn't need explicit violence and sex to win the hearts of his fans.I am fan of ASOIAF too.

@pspboy7

8 жыл бұрын

Simply because that just wasn't the norm back then. So much has changed since the end of the world wars...

@Arekusando

8 жыл бұрын

Besides, do we really need orcish women and nightmares of Gorbag railing Shagratina on squeaky bed? I certainly do not.

@karlzone2

7 жыл бұрын

I doubt GRRM "needs" the explicit violence and sex for his fans either; he's just including it as an artistic/realistic choice.

@alonivercuthalion9902

5 жыл бұрын

@@karlzone2 there is nothing artistic about explicit sex scenes and unrestrained violence. These are hooks used by lazy writers to catch the attention of weak minded people who are too foolish to understand a good story.

@alonivercuthalion9902

5 жыл бұрын

@Oh yeah yeah what else does it have? No compelling characters, because Martin is too lazy to keep one around long enough for development. It's full of political backstabbing, war, and incest. Great qualities to have👍Martin doesn't know one iota about Fantasy. He should have written Game of Thrones in a modern setting if he was going to only focus on politics.

A very misleading title. GRRM doesn't dislike Tolkien, he's just outlining the differences between Tolkien's genre of High Fantasy and GRRM's Low Fantasy.

Tolkien also made the mistake of leaving out gratuitous sex, violence and off color language. It's almost as though Tolkien was writing for humanity in a way that sought to elevate the human spirit rather than exploit their unhappy neuroses and sociopathy that usually accompany an advancing society.