The dispostition of first to second class carriages is that way because the middle of the train is not powered and therefore quieter for first class

@user-kj7pf1jl5s

Ай бұрын

This way the dining coach is more easily accessible also for passengers in the 2nd class, than having it at the front or end of train.

@nashorn9745

Ай бұрын

@@user-kj7pf1jl5s That's not the why the second class is split in two. The comment you answered to is absolutely right the middle three cars are unpowered.

@uncipaws7643

Ай бұрын

However it means that if you haven't reserved and don't find a free second class seat at one end of the train you have to walk through first class to find one at the other end. And all the walking through creates disturbances for first class passengers. Generally I prefer it if first class is at the end (or in front of the train).

@user-kj7pf1jl5s

Ай бұрын

@@nashorn9745 OK, still it makes the dining coach more accessible. Swiss routes are not so long, and time is money... The same coaches might be unpowered also closer to one end of train.

@felixtheswiss

Ай бұрын

There will be an midlife upgrade of those trains. The second prototype is now in the works.

The ICN is definitely one of the most comfortable and iconic trains in Switzerland, and the views on Lake Neuchâtel and Bienne 🤩

@beyondEV

Ай бұрын

Way back (must have been like 2003?), SBB actually did run a ICN all the way down to cartagena in spain once a week (from bern). longest ICN trip ever.

07:45 That's not a croissant, that's a "Gipfeli" It's slightly different to a croissant

@eluu6548

29 күн бұрын

Pretty shure, the Romands don't call it like that...

I don’t care what the cost is, nothing beats sitting in the dining car enjoying a good tasting meal and watching the passing scenery. It’s PRICELESS 😉👍🏻

When I lived in the UK in my younger days, I always loved getting these trains when landing in Zurich Airport, then travelling to Bienne or Neuchatel to visit relatives in the Swiss Jura. Comfortable ride and plenty of space above for big suitcases (the big plus of single deck carriages; thankfully the double-deck trains were limited to the main Zurich-Bern-Fribourg-Lausanne-Geneva route). Good to see the ICNs still appear to be in good condition. Hopefully they’ve still got plenty more years left in them.

@nepse8913

Ай бұрын

They are receiving a refit now, so still planned to run until 2035 or 2040

6:25 this is because the Pendolinos are fitted with an hydraulic tilting mechanism, while this ICNs have a pneumatic one fitted, which is much more smoother

@rogerschuerch7768

Ай бұрын

No, the tilting mechanism of the ICN is electric, what‘s unusual for tilting trains but is way smoother and more constant than hydraulic ones.

@TherconJair

Ай бұрын

If I remember correctly SIG designed the tilting mechanism but was then bought up by FIAT Ferroviaria, which was then acquired by Alstom, which means Alstom should own the rights to the SIG designed tilting mechanism.

@il_dalla

Ай бұрын

@@rogerschuerch7768 in fact, I remember the Pendolinos (that we have also here in Italy on the Frecciarossa service) to be very shaky and “nervous” when taking a sharp curve and tilting

@RTSRafnex2

Ай бұрын

@@TherconJair yeah that's right, the bogies/tilting mechanism are known under the product name "SIG Navigator".

Well, are you really surprised that a train designed by the Swiss works well, and better than that what the British, Italians, Germans and French produced? I'm Dutch, and I'm very proud of the Dutch engineering achievements, such as the defences against the water and one of the best (if not _the_ best) road system in the world. But this is the Swiss we're talking about.

@hockneyfication

Ай бұрын

Awww, what a lovely comment. 🥰 Love the cutting-edge innovation of the Netherlands and the Dutch. Jullie hebben een prachtig land. Het is het nadeel van de kleinere landen dat ze niet net zo veel aandacht krijgen als de “big shots” zoals Duitsland, Frankrijk, enz.

First class. Great scenery. Good food. Classy decor. Smooth ride. Thanks Thibault. 💚👌👍

I like the comfort of the ICN tilting trains, but they do have two (related) drawbacks. As we saw on arrival at Zurich, there is a narrow stepped doorway which means that boarding and alighting from these trains can be very slow, especially if there are a lot of passengers with luggage. The steps also mean that a lift has to be deployed if there is a passenger in a wheelchair. This is in marked contrast to almost all other MODERN trains in the SBB fleet (Kisses, Flirts, Dostos etc) which do have level boarding.

@uncipaws7643

Ай бұрын

Tilting trains have an exception from the level boarding rule because it is difficult to make them low floor.

I loved Switzerland. One of the most beautiful countries in Europe. If not, the most beautiful.

@SimplyRailway

Ай бұрын

AGREED!

I would definitely say that, in the case of the UK, tilting trains were not a false solution since the Pendolino over here helped reduce journey times on the WCML significantly, but on the other hand it seems that these days it's not considered worth it because all new stock running on those routes don't use tilt, and naturally future HS2 stock won't use it either. I'd argue they have a niche market, but not necessarily a false solution. Anyway, I'm glad to see you do a trip report on the ICN because it's a beautiful unit and a real flagship of the SBB! Swiss trains really have to be among the best in the world!

The first class is actually in the middle because the pantographs reduce the ceiling height, so they put first class compartments underneath the pantos, and sandwiched the rest of first class and the restaurants in between, it also makes both ends nearly identical (one end just has a little family area)

read an old USA FRA document a while back which considered curves. This was from early 1980s at a time when the Canadian LRC was new and still had tilting. (and before FRA decided to condemn USA to old heavy steel trains). The major issue with curves is NOT passenger comfort but rather the rails ability to handle lateral forces. If a curve is banked to allow 50kmh, but the train goes 100kmh, there is a cant defficiency. This results in the bogie pushing the outer rail in track outward and if the lateral force is too high, the rail detach from railroad ties, roll over and cause derailment. The heavier the train, the more lateral force it exerts on tracks, so the slower it must go. (so it is ironic that USA pushed to go to only heavy steel trains to protect Budd which was a steel-only train manufacturer). Banking allows the weight of the car body to be neutralised in terms of those lateral forces, leaving only the weight of the bogies. to push rails sideways. The RABDe 500 has separate cars, each with 2 bogies, so this presents huge challenge compared to jacobs bogies in terrms of detecting when you enter a curve. It can only start to bank when it starts to feel a curve, but that also means that it can only start to bank after passengers have begun to feel the curve. It has been a huge challenge for all tilting trains without jacobs bogies. Not sure how the RADBe 500 does it. Conceptually, the first car could transmit G force sensor to the cars behind so they can start banking at exact same time the curve begings to ensure the feeling is nullified at the same rate as you go trhough the curve. Notable: SBB changed/is changing the tilting tech on those trains recently: Look for a press release from: Curtiss-Wright to Supply SBB Swiss Federal Railways with Stabilization Technology for High-Speed Passenger Train This tells me that this system wasn't perfect before. This is dated 2021. And appears to be electro-mechanical system with lots of electronics for innertial sensors and tilt control. (The trains are undergoing a full rebuild to extend their life). The new trains purchased by Amtrak (mixture of TGV-M loco and Pendolino coaches) decided to go with GPS/position based tilting is that each car is programmed with the track geometry for the whole route and knows its precise location at all times so it knows when it is about to enter a curve and can bank predictively to cancel any G force felt by passengers to prevent sea sickness. IN THEORY. This is one of the major stumbling blocks to prevent certification of those trains by FRA because Alstom can't yet prove it will work. I suspect you were happy with it more because Geneva-Zürich likely has very view areas where tilting is activated/needed compared to other routes that have sharper curves. When VIA Rail put the LRC's tilting mechanism out of its misery not long after trains were launched, it did not affect the Montréal-Toronto travel times because the tracks are pretty straight and there are few curves where speeds needed to be reduced compared to existing track speed limits (which can't go above 150kmh but usually below that).

@counterfit5

Ай бұрын

Wow, I didn't realize that Curtis-Wright was still around, or making train equipment

@jfmezei

Ай бұрын

@@counterfit5 Their web site mentions their experience with innertial systems on aircraft makes them good to fo tilting systems on trains since they also need to detect innertial changes to trigger banking. And this company is the true descendent of the Wright brothers who made the first plane !

@f.g.9466

Ай бұрын

I wouldn't go that far given that the trains are now 24 years, I guess a replacement might just be due to the age and wear of the components. Not sure if the original tilting mechanism is still available to buy? But two decades later it's also possible that something superior is now available, wouldn't take away merit from the original components.

@RTSRafnex2

Ай бұрын

in short: the leading bogie is equipped with a gyroscope and an accelerometer. The data is fed into the tilt computer which calculates the optimum tilt angle (for the car body and the opposite tilt angle for the pantograph which is mounted on a slide). And no, there weren't problems with the original system. It's just a normal refit.

@jfmezei

Ай бұрын

@@RTSRafnex2 Thanks. Having sensors in leading car makes sense but still has potential for problems. I am curious how much tilting systems have REALLY improved speeds and how "toned down" they are made to reduce their effect. (and curious how a titing train knows it is allowed to exceed speed limit on s curvy stretch of track but not on straight stretch)

When built new these trains were the only ones of SBB CFF FFS with leather seats in first class, however that was changed when the trains were modernized. At that point they also replaced the turquoise seat covers in second class.

I agree...did this trip on the same sort of train earlier this year. Reassuringly solid design, everything thought out, on time (of course) and GWR in the UK should watch and weep.

I often take it in geneva I ADOREEEEEE the tilt, it's beautiful and weird at the same time ahah

I did travel on this very same unit last year in 2023 from Geneva Airport to Zürich HBF and indeed it was a lovely journey full of scenery. I even had lunch on the onboard restaurant (it did set me up 40 CHF but 8t was worth it).

The 2nd class end cars are motor cars, so have the noise and vibration of the traction equipment in them. The middle cars are not powered, so do not, so are 1st class. While I can't be fully certain this is the reason for the arrangement, it is the explanation I have been told.

Bien présenté, comme toujours, merci.

great video as always greetings from switzerland

I take this train every day along Lake Neuchâtel. For the arrangement of the wagons, it is because the engines are in the 2nd class wagons, and the 3 middle wagons have no engines, so in 1st class.

you would appreciate the DB ICE-T between Passau and Wels. Tilts extreme. With the very best ICE design inside and out.

Positive point with first class in the middle: It does not matter witch way the train is arranged. SBB also does that with RABe 511, RABe 512 and the new Flirt EVO. But bad side: Always walking traffic trough the first class with passengers searching more second class space...

Super excellent Video Bro! BIG LIKE!

ICN. InterCity-Neigezug The InterCity RABDe 500 tilting train connects Swiss city centers and operates mainly on the Jura-Südfuss line. The 44 ICNs developed by ADtranz and produced by Bombardier between 2000 and 2006 were delivered in two sub-series. In 2021, a modernization program was launched in Yverdon, which is expected to be completed in 2028. With the "Rail 2000" plan, the Swiss railway infrastructure between Geneva and Eastern Switzerland could be maintained without expensive high-speed lines thanks to curve technology. Today, the SBB is aware that this tilting train technology is reaching its limits. The ICNs are called tilting train, Neigezug.

Excellent ❤

Looks like a most pleasant ride!

You're lucky to have caught it, sadly the line will be interrupted from Geneva to Zurich from December this year for perhaps 10 years due to planned works on the tracks. Only 2 trains in the morning Geneva-> Neuchâtel and 4 Neuchâtel->Geneva (number reversed in evening rush hour) will remain during weekdays.

The ICN trains are currently in a modernisation program, it would be awesome to see an updated review once the first ones are in service!

As a sidenote, the RABDe500 are starting to undergo refurbishment, so you might come back and check them out again when that project is done.

The tilt technology was developed by SIG, which was taken over by Fiat, the developer of the competing Pendolino tilt technology. I wonder if the SIG technology is better, and if it has been "buried" by Fiat (now part of Alstom) so that we may never see it again.

Thanks for another great video

I love this train ❤❤❤

The ICN was built by ADTranz and partners. ADTranz (ABB Daimler Rail) was sold to Bombardier. There weren't two batches. It was just the corporate changes during production

Great video.

Hey Thibault, are you comming tomorrow to the debut of the ICE 3neos on the Frankfurt to Amsterdam service?

Hallo. Ich muss leider in Deutsch schreiben hoffe das du es verstehst. Kleine Anmerkung zum ICN. Diese Züge verkehren ebenfalls seit dem Unfall im GBT auch über die Gotthardbergstrecke als IC 2 bei gewissen Umläufen. Ebenfalls ist der ICN ein guter Zug obwohl die Konstruktion zum teil zu klein ist für den Fernverkehr. Die Kapazität des ICN ist zu klein. In gewissen Hauptverkehrszeiten ist er überlastet. Für mich ist es neben dem IC 2000 und den Girunos wohl doch das beste was die SBB im Bestand hat. Den Twindexx hab ich gar nicht gerne. Der ist für mich ein reiner Schrottzug. Ich hoffe dir ein wenig geholfen zu haben mit diesen Informationen. Du machst Toparbeit mit deinen Zugsreisen und Ich freue mich immer wieder auf neue Videos von Simply Railway...Bravo🤗👍👏👏👏💯❤ Liebe Grüsse Mike

Just ordered your book 😊

- They say it helps to sit in the middle of the long coach if you are sensitive to the tilting. - This class configuration does not expect you to know where your class will be, and is perfect for stations with two main over-/underpasses (which is most stations). Half of the people will need to walk a little from where they stand on the platform to a wagon fitting their class, but noone will need to walk too far. Similar boarding times across passenger speeds up overall boarding. Seat reservations are not very common in Switzerland for people travelling in groups under 10. Also, if you run double-traction, this kind of configuration is what you will get anyway.

Ótimo vídeo simplys faz uma ótima viagem de trein show

last march i've travelled on the Giruno between Milan and Zurich and back

Great trip.

The first class section is in the middle of the train because, as the train serves through and terminal stations and reverses direction at some stations, this makes it hard to ensure that the first class section is in the desired position at subsequent stations. Putting the first class section in the middle means that it is always in the right position, regardless of which station is being used. For example, a train leaving Chur makes a direction change in Zurich. It then goes to Basel, where it makes another direction change. The train then runs from Basel to Luzern, makes another change and then ends up back in Zurich with the first class section at the end instead of at the head. The ICN setup solves this

It's nice they have a cafe car to buy beer....great video as always

Alstom is having all kinds of trouble with the tilt technology in the new Amtrak Avelia (successor to Acela)

The ICN is the best train in Switzerland together with the IC2000. The Giruno doesn't come even close. SBB has ordered some RABe 523 with only one door as a replacement for the ICN on some lines, they actually think that a s-bahn train all commuters hate is a good replacement for the ICN. If SNCF would be doing something like this the workforce would go on strike.

@Slithermotion

Ай бұрын

Yes…but we are complaining on a high level here. Honestly train punctuality + enough seats = happy me.

@nashorn9745

Ай бұрын

@@Slithermotion I would rather stand than sit on the uncomfortable seats of the RABe 523

@Slithermotion

Ай бұрын

@@nashorn9745 I guess my ass is less picky ;)

@rogerschuerch7768

Ай бұрын

These trains will not replace the ICN between Biel/Bienne and Basel SBB, they will complement them for having a train every 30 minutes. And inbetween they decided, that BLS will operate these trains with their long-distance versions of the MIKA-FLIRTs.

@lukasegeling5205

Ай бұрын

With RABe 523, are you referring to the "Mouette" FLIRT? I've been on one of those and think the seats are fine, better than S-Bahn but worse than IC. I think those trains would be best used on RE or IR lines.

As a Swiss, I love the ICN but unfortunately it doesn't go to Ticino so only very rarely

My guess looking at the consist the real reason is the standartization. The both ends are the same thus easily interchangable in case of maintenance.

🔥 🔥

Good video but was filmed some years ago I think because the Geneva refurbishment was done some years ago.

@AndreiTupolev

Ай бұрын

September 2022

What about Swedens SJ X2000? Good tilting train?

The tilting mechanism of the ICN is not the same as the one mainly used on the market originally manufactured by FIAT Ferroviaria. While the FIAT ones hydraulic tilting techlogogy with the famous pendolums which tilt the carriage on the bogey, they ICN uses electric tilting technology originally developed by SIG whos bogey division was later bought by FIAT. The technology was therefore only ever used in the ICN and as a one of in the BR Class 390 operated then by virgin rail on the West Coast Main line. The technology uses up slightly less space within the carriage itsself and has a more mechanic and less wobbly feel to it because its more precise to control. Thats why people feel less motion sickness in the ICN usually. The only real downside to the train, besides the highfloor access is really the noise of the engines underneath the 2nd class carriages, which today certainly could be improved upon.

Hey guys, since we are speaking of the SBB, do you know why, relatively often, a rather loud "boom" can be heard in trains while running? This is usually happening on duplex trains (on various models). I thought at first that this was the door of the toilets opening up alone, but it is too loud and too often.

@Slithermotion

Ай бұрын

Pneumatic?

@rogerschuerch7768

Ай бұрын

This comes from the fast-closing, mechanical flaps to provide effective pressure protection. This happens especially at tunnel entrances and train encounters at high speed.

@maximemm7768

Ай бұрын

Thanks for the input !

@LB767

Ай бұрын

Sometimes it can also be the noise of the main contactor relay opening and closing when passing neutral sections on the catenary. If you are sitting right below the pantograph it can be quite loud.

Fun fact: You can find a picture of this train in the intro of the TV show „The Big Bang Theory“.

Hello Tribault! This train is almost the same as SJ x2000 tiliting train in Sweden as you have ride? Or is it like the same or much difftrent? Thank you for god films from RP in Sweden!

"HSL" is a bit of a misnomer though as the highest speed is only 200 km/h. The Swiss considered it necessary to construct a whole new line with in-cab signalling for 200 km/h, which Britain had been doing since the 1970s on conventional tracks with conventional signalling 😊

@berkeleyfuller-lewis3442

Ай бұрын

Perhaps, but Switzerland is a (slightly uptight) VERY well run country, whereas the U.K. has become (post Brexit, and pardon the apt pun) a "train wreck."

@AndreiTupolev

Ай бұрын

​@@berkeleyfuller-lewis3442 what has brexit had to do with it? 🤷‍♂️

It's certainly at least 85% better looking than the Twindexx! 😁

j'adore le voyage suisse beau tgv

Half of the seats in the carriage are facing away from the direction. Will this make some passengers feel uncomfortable? However, I like this train restaurant and food very much. I hope that Chinese trains can also have such a dining environment.

c'est la dernière année qu'ils viennent sur Genève

I wouldn’t call that one best, it’s 2005 technology or some such. SBB does have much newer tilting trains, such as the Alstom ETR 610.

Les prises de courant en hauteur au dessus des sièges, ça ne doit pas être très pratique, non ?

@rogerschuerch7768

Ай бұрын

Non, ça pas, mais c‘était le plus facile pour les rattraper.

@enelym1978

Ай бұрын

c'était à l'époque... il me semble que ces trains n'avaient pas de prises à leur mise sur les rails. Ils ont ensuite rajouté les prises vu qu'on commençait à tous avoir des gros smartphones qui se vidaient rapidement et je crois que les lignes électriques couraient au-dessus des fenêtres. Idem pour les anciens 2 étages ou même les vieilles rames blanches et vertes :)

Having travelled geneva - zurich countless times, i can tell you thats its the least reliable service, especially on a friday evening rush hour. The amount of times that train broke down, or some crap was happening in one the stations. a few times had to change at morges to a local train because it broke down. same thing with having to change at solothorn once.

Never been this early before so looking forward to seeing the vid 😊quite expensive at a euro per mile or is it kilometre,noticed no one wants anybody sitting besides them they put their bags on the seat practically everyone on the train did this obviously not a gregarious people

@ballyhigh11

Ай бұрын

Two things about the fare. First of all that's the full price. Pretty much everyone who uses the train more than a couple of times a year in CH have a half price rail card (which isn't that expensive. A couple of returns can pay for it). Secondly, Swiss salaries are very high, so even the full fare wouldn't seem that outrageous for someone that lives and works there.

@enelym1978

Ай бұрын

That's ridiculous, yes we put our small bags next to us but we remove them when the train is obviously full and people just nicely ask and people remove their bags, it's never been an issue.

Heyy.. its out of topic butttt... please come to INDONESIA. Nous avons un nouveau train à grande vitesse. Le deuxième train le plus rapide du monde après la Chine. 350km/h. Vous voudrez peut-être l’essayer. C’est le premier train à grande vitesse d’Asie du Sud-Est et le premier sous la ligne équatoriale.

I tried booking a ticket at SBB website but after I enter my card details, it just freezes and keeps on loading.

@SMILYSUNFLOWER

Ай бұрын

do it on the app

@claireness999

Ай бұрын

@@SMILYSUNFLOWER I tried, but the app does not offer international ticket purchases

@SMILYSUNFLOWER

Ай бұрын

@@claireness999 try on another browser

Good video, but too many ads. Literally had 6 ads in 45 seconds, so couldn't finish the video. KZread needs to rethink its policies.

@berkeleyfuller-lewis3442

Ай бұрын

OR you can pay $11 a month (for "KZread Premium") to ELIMINATE ALL ADS. If you view KZread often it is totally worth it. What in your life that's worthwhile is totally free? Eh?

a train arriving 10 minutes before its departure is normal, right?

@enelym1978

Ай бұрын

It's because Geneva airport is the end station so it has to arrive 10 minutes early to allow a quick clean up of the train, refill of the restaurant stocks, etc.... Otherwise, typically, trains only stay 2-4 minutes at each station. Zurich HB being an exception.

@daanwolters3751

Ай бұрын

@@enelym1978 yeah but that is what i meant, isnt that is a normal amount for a train to start a line? Because space at busy stations is tight.

I don't think the incidence of bad tilting trains is greater than for trains in general. Too many successful examples to mention in Sweden, Germany, Italy, Slovenia, Spain, UK (the Alstom Pendlino which uses the same SIG electric tilt as the ICN), Australia and of course, Japan, where hundreds of tilting trains run every day.

3:13May not like it? I'd choose a seat in a facing bay with a table any day. The back of the seat in front, if they're all facing the same way, really obstructs the viee

Try to record in 50/60fps... 🙃

@SimplyRailway

Ай бұрын

Recorded in 4K, 60fps

Honestly high floor ICNs would have been the perfect solution for the northeast corridor as they would have been able to tilt on large curves and accelerate/decelerate quickly on tight curves. But it's probably going do be a few decades before the acela 3 gets discussed

@nashorn9745

Ай бұрын

The ICN's are one year younger than the first acela sets. They are slower than the acela and are only able to reach 124 mp/h. But SBB is using them less and less and plan to replace some of them with stadler flirt trains. Thats extremally sad because the flirts are like way worse than the trains NJT and MBTA use on the northeast corridor. Amtrack could buy the ICN but a lot of things would need to be changed.

Tu connais pas le glacier et le bernina express! C'est sont les meilleurs trains en suisse!!

@tejmey

Ай бұрын

Et le brienzer rothorn bahn à brienz peutetre👍🏻

Tip for ya: when taking place at the 1st-class compartements right behind the dining-section, you'll served directly at your seat!

How can I reserved an exactly seat in SBB trains. I tried many times but can’t do that

Love your content, but hate seats that face each other.

expensive ride!

Nice train, but I wish transit companies would stop using velour for their seat covers. Velour shows wear so quickly, and it really cheapens the appearance.

I totally disagree with your positive opinion about these trains. These trains have a very small delay in their tilting system. Everytime I travelled on these trains (4 times so far) I become extremely sick and get serious problems with my balance. Symptoms I never had on other tilting trains, cars, planes or even rollercoasters. I heard I’m not the only one with these problems on this specific train. So from now on I do everything to avoid this ICN trains.

@felixtheswiss

Ай бұрын

Then you are a very strange case, i like it much better than the Pendolino and FVD system. And all people i know prefer the ICN too

Wait, so you paid €162 for a first class train ride only covering 272km and there's a possibility you might have a stranger right in front of you bumping his/her knees towards you? And then, to add insult to injury, they charge you almos €15 for breakfast? I know the Swiss are ridiculously good at scamming gullible people but this is just next level. You could paid at least €100 less for the same distance, the same type of comfort in 'first class' in any other Western European country. And that "tilt" speed doesn't justify that price gouging one bit.

@abelsuisse9671

Ай бұрын

Few people would actually pay 162 euros, most Swiss will at least have a demi-tarif so pay 50% of that. IMHO €15 for that breakfast is really well priced, it's very big, with several toasts, jams, butter, croissant, hot drink, and muesli. You'd pay that for a single coffee and a croissant in Starbucks

@youssef16844

Ай бұрын

@@abelsuisse9671 Most people in the world, like the owner of this channel for example, aren't Swiss though. It's a rip-off. And your hilarious comparison to Starbucks just shows how deluded some Swiss folks are.

@abelsuisse9671

Ай бұрын

@@youssef16844 the owner of the chanel travelled on the train, which as you could see was pretty full all the way, so I don't understand what your point is other than ranting about the fact that you can't afford it.

@youssef16844

Ай бұрын

@@abelsuisse9671 Yes, Abel, I too, have eyes. I saw Thibault getting into the train and noting that he paid €162 for a seat on a 'first class' seat where you'd be potentially be seated with a complete stranger. That's not 'first class'. That's a Swiss scam. I have paid much less for a similar comfort level while travelling a similar distance in Western Europe. I have also paid a similar price Thibault paid for this trip for a Nightjet where I had full berth to myself. But keep on deluding yourself that you're not being scammed. The Swiss are counting on it.

@Slithermotion

Ай бұрын

@@youssef16844Yes, but most of the swiss railway is also built by swiss taxes, which are not paid by most of the people including you and the channel owner.