I'll believe it when it's in a car, not a press release...

@johngonon1507

4 күн бұрын

Actually there are multiple cars on the road with this battery in it ... but only in China. Zeekr 001 and Zeekr 007 for instance since last december I think. edit: actually it's the previous generation "golden brick" battery that is in those EVs, so I guess this version is even better

I’m surprised no one else has really covered the Geely Golden Battery yet, the spec is kind of insane, the 75kWh pack in the Geely 007 can charge at 370kW - and that’s the base spec! This unit is surely going to turn up in a whole number of models Zeekr, Volvo, Polestar, Geely, Lotus etc under the Geely brand Well done for covering 👏

@vangpham2514

4 күн бұрын

electric viking channel did

@Techridr

3 күн бұрын

Yeah, It's heating up and Geely's offering really looks amazing

Considering you only want to charge to 80% with the cobalt/manganese lithium batteries for longer cycle life. LFP is looking better and better.

@larryc1616

4 күн бұрын

+4000 charge cycles

@rogerstarkey5390

4 күн бұрын

"Considering" that on the relatively rare occasions "you" want, or rather "Need" to charge "A battery" to 100%, you can time your "NICKEL" (Manganese/ Cobalt) charge cycle to reach "100%" as you leave, and that degradation occurs if you SOAK the cell for a long period, it's not REALLY a problem, just a lack of education, or understanding.

Immagine we had started putting this much effort into batterr 50y ago

@mike_w-tw6jd

4 күн бұрын

or 100 years ago, lead-acid was 1859! NiCd, NiFe around 1900

@CHMichael

4 күн бұрын

@@mike_w-tw6jd 70 - 75 we had issues with opec and that would have been a good time to concentrate on alternatives to oil. As you pointed out, 100y ago we actually did put a lot of effort into battery's, as much as technology allowed.

@johngonon1507

4 күн бұрын

the problem is graphene that started to be really produced since 2009

@rogerstarkey5390

4 күн бұрын

The "Chevron effect" See a technology which threatens your own? Suppress by any and all means available. It took A country with vision and a long term plan, A change in "Global perspective" And, outside that country, One company (Person) with a similar perspective... to change the game. A convergence of technologies and attitude.

@CHMichael

4 күн бұрын

@@rogerstarkey5390 laptop batteries and elon musk ?

Great report most appreciated

Excellent balanced coverage! Appreciate your support

Well done great wrap up.

The biggest problem with graphene and nano-tubes right now is that we don't really have any method of producing them in the desired sizes in a deterministic manner. You whip up a batch, hope for the best, sift out the sizes you need, pass the rest to whoever wants it and if nobody does, send it back through the process for the next batch.

@michelcote

3 күн бұрын

I heard that ball for ball bearings are similarly sorted. but I suspect that the yield may be better.

@teardowndan5364

3 күн бұрын

@@michelcote With rolling BBs, you have pretty good control over the base size by weighing the starting slug and can grind/polish them down to spec. With graphene and nano-tubes, you don't have much control over how carbon vapor deposits around seeds.

Thank you Jon. Man would I Love to be a test driver as part of a team testing Electric Cars for a living!! I'd love to see the difference in cycles of NMC, LFP, LMFP and other Cell technologies in a real world scenario.

I'm not impressed by press releases. Third party testing and real world use is all that matters.

@douglascutler1037

4 күн бұрын

Oh, you think China is kidding about it's battery innovation?

@brettmciver432

4 күн бұрын

​@douglascutler1037 Believe but verify especially if it comes out of China. They are k own for lying also never believe a Democrat or liberal , take what they say with a large grain ,very very large grain of salt.

@GreenDriveIndia

4 күн бұрын

Yes unless it is mass produced and adopted .. nothing can be said

@williamcrowley5506

4 күн бұрын

Can’t just appreciate the info, hope it hits mainstream soon, and look forward to further advancements?

@MrQuay03

4 күн бұрын

​@@douglascutler1037 prototype is easy, mass production is hell

With v2g, those cycles will be important and no battery will be around for 50 years if it’s going through multiple cycles daily. Also, those cars will be driving around 20 hours a day, so the battery will get more than plenty of cycles.

Jon 1:02 onwards You STILL quite clearly differentiate between "Lithium ion batteries" and "Lithium iron phosphate batteries" . I'll say AGAIN(!) . "Lithium ion" is the general classification of ALL batteries containing "LITHIUM" ("Li") . "Lithium iron phosphate" (LiFePO4) is a SUBCATEGORY of that set. . SO IS (for instance) NMC / Li-NMC ....Nickel Manganese Cobalt (LiNixMnyCo1-x-yO2) . The clue is the "Li" in the formula. . PLEASE start referring to "Lithium ion" vs (maybe) "Sodium ion" which are DIFFERENT "CLASSIFICATIONS" (Types) of cell... BUT Under (WITHIN) the "LITHIUM ion" classification, you should describe the SUB-SETS as "IRON based or NICKEL based LITHIUM ION cells" . REMEMBER you are providing information to: Those who understand. Those who THINK they understand (and will innocently relay incorrect/ confusing information) Those willing to learn (Who NEED the correct baseline) AND (?) Those who will continue to push incorrect information trying to undermine the knowledge. . You DID seem to make the correct distinction earlier... but consistency is crucial.

Increasing battery energy density is the new Moore's law.

These batteries definitely aren't more expensive. They are incredibly cheap. The geely galaxy e5 is released in a month. It starts at 20,000 usd in china! It has these batteries. The longer range version is only about 23,000 usd with 300 mile range! It's a total game changer.

@MrVanre

4 күн бұрын

not recyclable, you will put these in the ground or shooting to the moon, i call that a waste for the planet.

Geely is surprisingly important. It includes Proton Lotus Volvo Polestar Zeekr Lynk & Co

@Cleanerwatt

4 күн бұрын

Exactly! This is potentially a really big deal.

Will this be delicious for my Polestar stock? Let's gooooo lol

Amazing that Geely came out with this before CATL.

@rogerstarkey5390

4 күн бұрын

Have you ever been to the CATL website?

Battery tech that treaded water for a time with small and scarce updates and breakthroughs has just went wild. Of course the investment went through the roof with EV’s but the jumps are beginning to be massive. Weight, density and cost all improved. We can look forward to big changes.

@rogerstarkey5390

4 күн бұрын

Battery improvement has been ongoing and exponential for 2 decades.... you just weren't paying attention. There will be various companies (Mainly, but not always Chinese!) leapfrogging in chemistry, materials, formats, manufacturing processes for the foreseeable future. "Enthusiasts" will proclaim each as "The killer" of others. THERE WILL BE A PLACE FOR MANY DIFFERENT CELLS AND APPLICATIONS. . What "we" SHOULD look for is "WHAT is the operating envelope for a particular application in terms of production, performance, cost, etc" and Does "A cell" fit the profile.

more Wh/kg offsets some of any cost disadvantage. And back of envelope calcs say 3,500 charge cycles would translate to 10 years of use at a charge per day, for commuting to work - 300 miles would be excessive.. A lot of people change their cars 2/3 times in that span.

It's the battery the cybertruck should use

Used in a Robotaxi of 100K KM per year then the batteries would last 10 years in a Robotaxi, which is still very good. Not too many existing Taxi's would do 1M KM in general in their lifetime.

@lennyvalentin6485

4 күн бұрын

10 years of taxi cabbing and the interior would be looking incredibly shabby. Production cars aren't really built for that kind of constant usage so who can say how the seats would hold up (if at all) etc...

I would like also to see Tesla uses this LFP battery in thier rear wheel drive model 3 and model Y

Looks like CNTs cost less than Graphene. A few percent by weight in CNTs and you may drop ESR quite a bit. Multi-walled tubes are cheaper, and they may work better to intercolate lithium... Thanks for the talk.

@olgglo

Күн бұрын

WTF is CNT and ESR pls?

Nice. Still not clear how a Peltier cooling device cant be developed.

QuantumScape created a battery that can go 300k miles with only 3% battery loss. And it has been range tested in ID4 by Volkswagon.

Amprius has also branded its existing silicon nanowire platform SiMaxxTM with its current product range of up to 500 Wh/kg. George Davis

@rogerstarkey5390

4 күн бұрын

In mass production?

@beetle5000

3 күн бұрын

The difference is that these batteries are in vehicles now

@psylinx

3 күн бұрын

They're plant in Colorado opens about the end of this year. They will be supplying the battery for the aptera which I'm a reservation holder for

@beetle5000

3 күн бұрын

@@psylinx that’s a cool car 😎👌

@psylinx

3 күн бұрын

@@beetle5000 They start production next year and hopefully I'll get mine in 2026.

Is anyone looking into heat damage to the batteries in the desert?

@PETERJOHN101

4 күн бұрын

The latest batteries have improved thermal tolerance so arrid climates are well tolerated. In fact, it takes less energy to cool an EV than it does to heat one because there is no engine heat to overcome. That means cold weather can impact range more than hot weather. Having said that, it is important to maintain a parked EV in a moderate temperature range between 0C to 30C (32F - 86F) to avoid charging loss during storage.

what about temperature sensitivity?

Isnt this "just" the Golden battery Zeekr annonced back in december 2023 ? (Zeekr is an subsidiary of Geely)

Always enthusiastic from a new battery break through but this wouldn't be the first time we were lied to from the Chinese.

when the Y has them then ill believe

Graphene is not a source for nanotubes. Well, no more than any other carbon. Graphene is a sheet of carbon atoms, a flat (but flexible) two-dimensional lattice one atom thick. Nanotubes are *tubular.* It's a different configuration for carbon atoms. You won't find any nanotubes in a graphene sheet - except perhaps as unintended during deposition. You make nanotubes through vapor deposition. Or you find them in nature. Either way, it's quite expensive to produce nanotubes with desired properties and purity, and achieving scale is difficult. Geely's announcement is interesting - but no more so than any other hand-built bench-test battery candidate. Unless Geely *is* commercializing these short Blade batteries? Geely's announcement is devoid of any price, volume or schedule information. Some perspective: lots of battery candidates blow the doors off contemporary commercialized batteries. Getting them to market is the hard part.

@Cleanerwatt

4 күн бұрын

Thanks for your helpful perspective and for the correction on the nanotubes and graphene.

I’m pretty sure these are already in their new vehicles?

Gee, how could you miss the charging difference and safety of lfp in the equation? Charging to 100 percent wins in my book.

@Twin.motors

4 күн бұрын

I've charged all my EVs to 100% since day one. If I had to charge to 99% I'd sell then and buy a diesel. It's absurd to sell a product and tell people to use only 80% of them

@seranne

4 күн бұрын

So you top of your diesel tank every day then?

@rogerstarkey5390

4 күн бұрын

@factchecker9358 You need to "Check some facts"

Volumetric energy is more important for an EV. I want to see that chart.

Lfp doesnt take you as far per charge as other chemistries but those loose capacity faster and need replacement sooner so how far does each chemistry take you in total before the pack fails?

@rogerstarkey5390

4 күн бұрын

Battery 101. "Chemistry" doesn't equate to "Range" "Capacity" does. A 100kWh "LFP" Pack has precisely the same RANGE as a 100kWh "NICKEL based Lithium ion" Pack in a similar vehicle (Disregarding the probable weight advantage of the Nickel based pack) . Focus on "kWh" NOT Chemistry. . "Longevity" (Life) is another discussion altogether.... BUT I do know that acclaimed experts HAVE said they have "Nickel based cells with zero degradation and better performance than LiFePO4 cells" on test (2023)

The must have studied the BYD blade battery carefully

@rogerstarkey5390

4 күн бұрын

Which BYD cell? You KNOW it takes years to bring a cell to production? (For instance they must complete an accelerated test program to be confident in the warranty?) That being the case, the same applies to BYD? So..... How did Geely get hold of the LATEST BYD cell to benchmark it? (DUH?)

New battery every week :)

Its believable because its not very energy dense and is a somewhat good product. There is no "game changer" its a technology that works.

Cool. I just picked up 105 kWh of LFP for my Ford Ranger EV. They are only 1 C rated charging, but they are pushing past 180 Wh/kg. I will say, though, I think you're overstating the importance of weight. While reducing weight is always beneficial, the actual efficiency gains aren't that great. It's factored into the rolling resistance, which typically accounts for less than 10% of an average EV's overall energy usage.

@mondotv4216

4 күн бұрын

RR is inverse squared though with speed. So it cannot be ignored unless you only drive at 60km/h (about 37mph). Every Kg you increase in battery weight is a Kg less you can carry.

@newscoulomb3705

3 күн бұрын

​@@mondotv4216 It is a static load, which is why its percentage of the overall energy consumption mix reduces as speed is increased (aero drag increases at the square of speed). So I'm not saying that weight isn't important, but its importance relative to efficiency is not as significant as a lot of EV folk try to claim. The weight is a bigger factor in other areas, such as acceleration and payload. As an example, the Chevy Silverado EV weighs 1,500 to 2,000 lbs more than the Ford Lightning, Rivian R1T, and Tesla Cybertruck; however, the Silverado EV's efficiency is almost identical to the dimensionally similar Lightning while being worse than the efficiency of the smaller and more aerodynamic Cybertruck and R1T. Likewise, despite the Chevy Bolt EV's weighing as much as 500 lbs less than the dimensionally smaller and more aerodynamic Tesla Model 3, the Bolt EV's efficiency (especially at speed) is slightly worse. What I'm seeing most from EV journalists who are new to the automotive space is that they have chosen brand favorites, and they try to invalidate EV offerings from competing automakers by citing metrics that ostensibly matter but don't actually have as significant of an impact as they claim.

@mike_w-tw6jd

3 күн бұрын

How does that much battery fit in a Ranger? Do you sacrifice the bed space?

@newscoulomb3705

3 күн бұрын

@@mike_w-tw6jd Short answer: Energy density. Long answer: I'm still figuring out the best arrangement in the factory battery pack. Each cell is over 1 kWh, and I can fit 98-100 cells fairly easily in the NiMH pack. The lead acid pack has a bit more room, but I have more work to do on that Ranger EV's chassis and powertrain before I finish rebuilding the traction battery pack.

Legacy auto makers are screwed. Imagine hearing that ford or GM developed a new battery. Not in the cards.

Can the Geely short blade batteries be charged to 100% on a regular basis? If so, that would help increase the daily driving range of an EV.

@Cleanerwatt

4 күн бұрын

Yes, they are LFP, so they can be regularly charged to 100%!

@rogerstarkey5390

4 күн бұрын

@@Cleanerwatt as can Nickel based.... Just don't leave them "soaking"

Its not GEELY's battery at all. Its the BYD blade battery. GEELY does not manufacture batteries.

@waynerussell6401

4 күн бұрын

Volvo lists their battery manufacturer as Northvolt. But they are unable to produce commercial quantities and are loss making.

@johngonon1507

4 күн бұрын

Well technically it's Zeekr's battery ... which belongs to Geely. BYD are not the only ones making batteries you know.

@rogerstarkey5390

4 күн бұрын

@davefroman4700 have you looked at the Geely website? Maybe you should?

Shill, nice job pretending shexing plus, catl's lfp that has 205 wh/kg doesnt exist

@rogerstarkey5390

4 күн бұрын

Try "Shenxing Plus" 😉

@dyeace

3 күн бұрын

@@rogerstarkey5390 I was going from memory on a Chinese word lmao

why do i have the impression that this is at best a prototype and at worst a concept just like the solid battery and that we will at best see it in about 10 to 15 years on the market an that bi that time chinese batteries twice as good ? so far the best batteries ( eve , catl and and something with a g ) are made in China

Carbon nanotubes? GLWT in mass manufacturing. 20-80% in 26 minutes? Kia/Hyundai e-gmp tech will do it in 15 minutes. I don't think these batteries will see the light of day in EVs.

That energy density at 192 Wh/kg is quite low in the battery world. Tesla's new 4680 battery has about 272 Wh/kg. Just as a point of comparison, petrol (or gas in the US) is equivalent to about *12,800 Wh/kg* !!!

@johngonon1507

4 күн бұрын

4680 is NMC not LFP ... so it's kind of normal to be above. You basically choose your tradeoffs. For petrol, don't forget that the engine will use only 30% to 50% of that (which is still more). But it's the same ... choose your tradeoffs.

@maxhugen

4 күн бұрын

@@johngonon1507 True... ICE lose a lot of the energy as heat etc. Seems like every other week, there's a "great new" battery. Maybe one day.... 😎

Lithium is still lithium mate. 🔥

@jimmurphy5355

4 күн бұрын

Sodium is sodium. Burns on contact with water. No way to put it out. And since sodium is sodium, that sodium chloride in your pantry is going to burn the house down one of these days.

YAGCSB (Yet Another Game Changing Super Battery). Or more clickbait bullshit.

🥱😴

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

🤣🤣🤣

Does anyone need a 50 year battery?

@larryc1616

4 күн бұрын

Why not? You can always sell it for thousands to a recycler or energy storage co

@Techridr

4 күн бұрын

Obviously, yes. If you have a 50-year battery, that means in 10 years you might only have 2-3% degradation.

@waynerussell6401

4 күн бұрын

Every storage facility.

@rogerstarkey5390

4 күн бұрын

@douggold7582 "Does anyone need a 50 year battery?" Well... I think it's item 7 (8?) on the "Great Big EV FUD List" that "Batteries need changing every "X" years (Variable) so aren't fir for purpose" (Just above "...and they're not recyclable") . This is another nail in the leaking coffin of the FUDsters.

Lots of lying in the Chinese auto sector….

🔋🔋🔋🔋🔋 MERITOCRACY Of CHINA 💯%. i wish 🧞 i was CHINESE 💯%. 💜☸️☯️🕉️💜

Why not just grow the mustache it really compliments the loook join the beard gang fully 🫡

@altosack

4 күн бұрын

Maybe he plays tuba? (This is a reason why I, as a trombone player, seldom keep my 'stache long term.)