The golden rule here is: "Be in the gear you need to be in for what you're doing". If you're slowing down, then you don't really need to change gear until you're forcing the engine to rotate slower than it likes to, as shown in the 6th gear slowdown in this video. If you can't rely on your brakes to slow you down, get your brakes sorted. For long steep hill descents, the same rule applies: "Be in the gear you need to be in for what you're doing." In the case of a steep descent, that is maintaining your speed and not letting the car accelerate out of control due to the steep descent, so a low gear is the right gear to use for steep descents.

@kenbrown2808

2 жыл бұрын

counterpoint, if you need to slow gradually, like if there's a light well ahead, that won't quite be green when you reach it at your current speed, then drop one gear and step off instead of riding your brakes in a higher hear. but yes, coming to a relatively short stop, unless you're driving something which wants special care - and 90% of drivers aren't - then downshifting is just unnecessary fuss and bother.

@Asto508

2 жыл бұрын

@@kenbrown2808 Depending on the gear ratio of your car, you can be in 5th down to 20 mph before it’s start to stall and then you can simply clutch if you want to slow down further. There is absolutely no need to lower gear for slowing down unless for the special situation on downhill roads.

@mammadtori3964

2 жыл бұрын

nice explanation

@kenbrown2808

2 жыл бұрын

@@Asto508 oh, sure, you can be in a higher gear and ride the brakes... But why not just drop a gear.

@MrSonicAdvance

2 жыл бұрын

@@mammadtori3964 Thanks. 😊

if im coming up to a queue, from a distance, i like to change gear and decelerate slowly. if i do it properly i can use less brakes without straining the engine.

@deandejaguar

2 жыл бұрын

This ... especially in a diesel car

@kilerscn

2 жыл бұрын

On top of that if the lights change whilst you are decelerating then you don't have to come to a complete stop which has many advantages, including less wear and tear on many components, less fuel use and better flowing traffic. Also saying that a car uses no fuel what so ever is completely false, for a car to use no fuel the engine would have to be off, there is always a minimum fuel use, even just to idle.

@keithnewnham

2 жыл бұрын

@@kilerscn when the engine speed is higher than needed for the road speed it keeps running without using any fuel at all!! As soon as you disengage the clutch it starts using fuel again to keep the engine running!!!

@TheEulerID

2 жыл бұрын

Absolutely. Be in the right gear is always what I was told, and it saves a lot on replacing brakes and disks and, despite what some say about clutch wear, I can't recall the last time I replaced one of those and have drive cars from new to 140,000+ miles. My current Ford Focus Diesel is almost at 100,000 miles on the original clutch and only one change of disks/pads at the front and nothing at the rear.

@classicretrogameroom

2 жыл бұрын

@@keithnewnham exactly, this guy is a bald know nothing.

I wouldn't want to slow down from 45 to 0 without any gear being engaged. Having ridden motorbikes I find it good practice to always have a gear engaged until you actually come to a stop. This helps to retain traction and improves safety.

@PalladinPoker

2 жыл бұрын

It is a lot easier with a sequential gearbox and a hand operated wet clutch, but I agree. The above scenario in a car I would probably do 5 to 3 then 1 when stopped, maybe 4 to 2 depending on the gearbox. On a bike though absolutely go 5-4-3-2-1 stop and ready to go.

@dickyr3295

10 ай бұрын

If you are stopping then you won’t be using any gears and so there is no point in engaging them. Unlike a motorbike, a car can block change and it is preferable, while braking, to have both hands on the steering wheel. A motorbike doesn’t require you to compromise on one form of control to use another because your left foot is doing nothing else; your left hand in a manual car is needed for accurate steering or skid recovery.

I always go down through the gears to slow coming off a motorway or descending a steep hill. After 46 years driving I've never had to fit a replacement clutch, and I've run several cars well over 100,000 miles; if you time the change correctly you're not going to wear it out prematurely.

@andrewmolloy5095

2 жыл бұрын

Yep, I'm the same although I've only been driving for 2 years, I guess its also what we pick up when watching our parents drive as children.

@NegotiableHemingway

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah I was always taught to go down through the gears and always have. Seems to preserve the life of the clutch much better too

@aalb1970

2 жыл бұрын

I block change 6 to 4 when exiting motorways with sharp bends because I know I will slow down to a lower speed than gear 6 can handle.

@djtaylorutube

2 жыл бұрын

@@NegotiableHemingway illogical because each time you change gear using the clutch going either up or down the box, you are introducing clutch friction and thus adding wear. Now, if you want to change gear without the clutch then yes, that will avoid that clutch and brake wear.

@silviuchitic162

2 жыл бұрын

rev match for smooth gear changes and minimal wear, what I do on my 16 year old Corsa with 107k miles.

Don’t forget that engine braking is much safer than foot braking in snow and ice.

@raftonpounder6696

2 жыл бұрын

@@composimmonite3918 why? Do modern cars not slide on ice if you brake? What a ridiculous statement.

@thomascarroll9556

2 жыл бұрын

No, “foot braking” better much more control especially nowadays with ANTI-LOCK BRAKING

@raftonpounder6696

2 жыл бұрын

@@thomascarroll9556 oh dear God. ABS does not work on ice. Unbelievable. Have you actually driven a car on ice? Doubtful.

@timothydraper6626

2 жыл бұрын

@@raftonpounder6696 It's more something people in Scandinavia think about, but engine braking can send pulses through the drive wheels enough to affect one's control on ice, compared to pressing the clutch and/or braking. I gather it's a specialised area for countries where icy conditions are more common than in the UK.

@raftonpounder6696

2 жыл бұрын

@@timothydraper6626 nonsense. You use the clutch smoothly. Don’t just dump it when you change down. Ice and snow here is the same as ice and snow anywhere.

When i learnt to drive in the army, we was all taught to double clutch due to the vehicles we drove. This was a lot to brake fade and the general lack of brakes lol. Additionally it was from the old synchromesh gearboxes, they were fun!! I could slow a 16 ton wagon with just my gears and not cause any damage. You are so right, cars and vehicles change and i had to adapt my driving to the newer cars that we have now. Great video as ever and great to update my driving. Thank you for taking the time to do these videos great Job!!

@nigelw638

2 жыл бұрын

Back in the 1980's when I was a HGV fitter I used to drive a Guy Big J6 I think it was called that was converted to a recovery truck. A Cummins engine with, I forget how many gears it had but I had to double de clutch every gear up and down much to the amusement of the drivers of the trucks I was recovering. When slowing down with a fully loaded unit and trailer behind I used to always use the gears to help slowing down. Good job it would not ever drive faster than 35mph.

@kenbrown2808

2 жыл бұрын

I spent my formative years learning to power shift, and it paid off when I got to play with a mid 60s "screaming" Jimmy. - mind, synchromesh DIDN'T require either double clutching, or being able to power shift. I could blast through the gears (as much as you can blast through gears when you weigh 20 ton and have an engine that would have 290 BHP IF it hadn't been badly tuned) while everyone else pedaled it like a bicycle. the other reason for shifting down as you slow is to keep track of your gears. if you just drop it out of gear, you have to be a magician to find the gear you want if you need to roll off without stopping.

@grahambonner508

2 жыл бұрын

Double de-clutching was an important skill in vehicles without synchromesh, it was used to match the gear speeds in the gearbox to avoid that horrible gear crunching when you move the gear lever from one gear to the next. You would rev up in nuetral when changing up and rev down (lift off the gass) in nuetral when changing down, takes some practice to get it right but is not necessary in modern vehicles with synchromesh on all forward gears. The last vehicle I drove like this was a series IIA Landrover - had no synco on 1st or 2nd. Had drum brakes all round as well so I know all about brake fade!

@deeeeeeeench1209

2 жыл бұрын

Back in my day we would pull on the reins and shout wooaaaahhhhh

@IamaHaley

Жыл бұрын

Great reply not many will know what or Wye double clutching was necessary or even what it is nice to know some experienced member of the driving club of old school watch these videos Regards Haley

If I’m coming off a motorway down a slip road slowing it from 70 on often quite a steep downslope, going down to fourth and then third has the car much more under control and settled than leaving it in fifth (my car) and declutching at 30mph. The car is slowing with you rather than the mass trying to push on.

@Batters56

2 жыл бұрын

@@jav.7611 The only thing I can say is try it. It’s a feeling

@Dominate955

2 жыл бұрын

I just leave it in 5th and have no issues. I do slow down quite early though

@MASAo7

2 жыл бұрын

@@Batters56 I completely agree about that feeling. It's almost as if the car has more lateral traction for a given speed when it's in a lower gear. My suspicion is that this effect is something to do with the differential.

@Jock609

2 жыл бұрын

@@jav.7611 If you have your clutch depressed you do not have full control over your car.

@squadmeta

2 жыл бұрын

Low compression petrol engines with a heavy flywheel are the worst in that situation, unless you take a lower gear the brakes are fighting a lot of rotational mass. It’s a car specific thing so some won’t understand the feeling you’re referring to.

As HGV drivers we are taught to stay in the higher gear till as late as possible just as you did. The biggest difference for us is approaching roundabouts where we will change down but usually in block style in order to try and keep a loaded truck moving, rather than pulling away from stopped.

You can save a lot of fuel by keeping the engine above the anti stall revs. If you keep 5th engaged until 800rpm the engine management will apply throttle to fight a stall. This is wasteful and should be avoided!

What I have learned from my instructor was to anticipate when coming up on roundabouts. To be looking ahead and slow down to the speed where you don't have to stop and fit in perfectly behind the car that's already on the roundabout. Therefore not having to stop and pull up again. Mostly I change to 2nd or 3rd gear in that scenario, and I was taught to be done with all the shifting and everything before I enter the roundabout so that I can only focus on observing. Of course this is only applicable to roundabouts without traffic lights and/or other stopped cars in front of you. But even with the latter one, you can anticipate it. I love to do it because it makes driving even more fun and it helps the flow on the roads.

I did have an instructor who said that brake pads were cheaper to replace than gearboxes. However I frequently use engine braking even on the automatic work car with paddle shift, especially downhill to control speed. I replaced my brake pads after 12 years and the gearbox is still fine.

@Mira_linn

2 жыл бұрын

Like it were more waring to engine breake then accelerate xD

I learnt to drive by using the engine to aid breaking and I continue to do so to this day, no biggy, I do notice a lot less break dust on my alloys when it comes to detailing my car, that had to be a plus.

@arealscotsman

2 жыл бұрын

Yes and your pads need changing less.

@viperz888

2 жыл бұрын

@@arealscotsman but your clutch needs changing more

@jefflerner7526

2 жыл бұрын

*... to aid braking ... ... brake dust ...

@ynotnilknarf39

2 жыл бұрын

@@viperz888 explain how

@onelyone6976

2 жыл бұрын

@@viperz888 not unless you know how to rev-match

Ok, I don’t do what you suggest and go from 70mph in sixth all the way down to a stop and clutch in before stall. In fact I block shift from sixth to forth (or indeed fifth to third) so that I clutch in much later and I’m not coasting in gear. This is coasting after all - since although you are in gear, the gear is disengaged and you have to actively reengage and the car would not do so for you. I also tend to ‘heel and toe’ even in normal driving and block shifting like this does require me to lift the revs in order to slot the gear without dragging the clutch on engagement. This all requires much more input from the driver but I’m ok with it - It benefits by not labouring the engine so much as you approach stall, particularly apparent in a diesel. You maintain drive which is safer in the event of a shunt and at least in my car (2005 Petrol) it uses less fuel since disengaging drive means the engine requires fuel to maintain idle, whereas staying in gear uses no fuel as Ashley points out does not. Thanks for the video - interesting discussion in the comments as ever!

@itzakkerz9842

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah I also prefer to downshift revmatch accordingly which some might find excessive, but I too prefer doing that as an extra input since it's all part of the driving experience and having more sense of control along with it being satisfying to feel and hear when doing so which is why I love driving manuals lol

@AK-nb6hz

2 жыл бұрын

There’s also the added benefit of you being in the right place if the lights change early. Not every deceleration hits a stop by the time you’re ready to apply power again so being in the right area as you’re slowing down allows a bit more control in my opinion. Sure I’m wrong but it seems sensible. I also drive a diesel and being in too low a gear usually causes my turbo to spin up too wasting more fuel along with the torque / power of a lower gear causing the ride to become more jerky too. I think this is one of those comfort things really. Sure either method is fine but it’s what I’m used to now.

@adogmcdizzle

2 жыл бұрын

@@AK-nb6hz I did an IAM assessment a few years ago and they had me change gear just before applying throttle in most situations and discouraged my changing gear while I was braking. So they would have you brake quite late and hard into up to a junction, then off the brakes select a gear and go. This seemed much more rushed to me than my process and surprised me a bit, but they are all about ‘making progress’ and try to emulate the police driving course - although ROSPA Gold goes even further in this regard. I would still like to try ROSPA Gold in a manual car.

My instructor taught me that you go down the gears because if the traffic then starts moving you are in a better gear to continue on, as for brake fade this can happen with disc brakes, try the run down from Hartside to Penrith to see how disc brakes can fade.

@OkenWS

2 жыл бұрын

Definitely, my Dad trashed a set of brakes coming down Llangynidr Moor in neutral. I had been telling him for years to stop doing it. He almost ran off the road.

@stevesmith7530

2 жыл бұрын

So, slow to an appropriate speed, select a lower gear, and use the engine to maintain a lower speed, not the brakes. Note that is slow down first with the brakes, not use the engine to slow the car, only to keep it slow.

@hmmm9183

2 жыл бұрын

@@stevesmith7530 engine braking is fine, in fact my theory included one of these to use engine braking. When he said its wearing it down, compare with moving off wear its still minimal. The real wear would start if you go jumping from 5k rpm down a gear it has to bring up a lot of rpms. But as we all go low rps reach around 1k and down a gear. youre wearing the brakes way way more than the clutch. theres no real disadvantage in it, your just saving a bit of brakes

@fill7t1

2 жыл бұрын

Oh yes down hartside on the brakes you’d have non left!, I use both gears and brakes, I must have another trip there soon.

@grahvis

2 жыл бұрын

I remember a great many years ago, my father when following another car down a long hill, would comment on the vehicle in front, going down on their brakes rather than their gears.

I passed my test around 13 years ago, but I've always been taught to and use engine braking and brakes. Thinking back a few years I had a 2012 ford, a few weeks after owning it came to brake and (apparently) the brake booster had failed. Using engine braking stopped the car from being a very dangerous missle on wheels. I wouldn't say there was anything wrong with someone using engine braking, nor is there an issue with someone not. I have found though using it makes jumping into an automatic a lot more difficult.

Happy you added the "doesn't really matter" bit at the end Ashley as I was all set to point out that the wear you mentioned earlier was negligible. I have been driving over 30 years and was taught engine braking but my instructor at the time also took the time to explain the details to me and point out that even cars of that era were quite comfortable to brake from top gear to zero with no risk of ill effects. As you point out, when the car is driving the engine (most braking scenarios), no fuel is being used so the longer you stay in gear under braking, the less fuel is used. Changing through every gear requires fuel to be used during the change so this isn't a clear benefit and will depend on driving style. Personally I have a hybrid habit with this in mind. I often make one change down as I'm braking (possibly 6th to 3rd for example) which has the benefit of staying in gear to a much lower speed but with only one splash of fuel in the middle of the braking process. If the braking is heavier though I won't change at all or if it's more extended I will make an additional change on the way down (maybe 6-4-2 or 6-3-2 depending on exact speeds and distances). My decisions (once safety and observations are accounted for) are largely based around mine and passenger comfort along with fuel efficiency.

@roostercruiser

Жыл бұрын

The fuel efficiency here is microscopic. Also there's no need to give it a splash when changing down.

@malccraven5276

Жыл бұрын

@roostercruiser the tiny splash of fuel I mentioned was what the engine would use to keep itself running while the clutch was in and it was disengaged from the drive. I don't believe it's possible to avoid the engine keeping itself running in these circumstances so that tiny splash of fuel is entirely unavoidable until I re-engage the clutch and let the engine be driven by the car again. As for the amount of fuel saved, it won't be as much as a newer car with a start/stop system but it will be part way there and also leads to a calmer more controlled driving style which in turn leads to further savings which is why I regularly get over 50mpg and have even hit 70mpg on a journey

@roostercruiser

Жыл бұрын

@@malccraven5276 Why does stop/start feature make it less of a problem - the engine won't turn off between gear changes....? A 5A-FE 1.5 DOHC 4-Cylinder with 9.8:1 Compression Ratio in park has a fuel flow rate of 0.171 cc/s which is 0.000175l a second... So if you change gear quite slow, lets say 2 whole seconds that 'splash' = 0.35ml. Barely a splash to an ant. This not even raindrop amount of fuel is not a contributing factor to your 'good' mpg.

I actually fundamentally disagree with you on this one, and it's been a long standing issue I have with the way driving is taught in this country. You did mention engine braking, but it isn't just about drum brake fade, its also about being able to cope with brake failures. Both my wife and my daughter were taught the method of "brakes to slow and gears to go" and because I disagree with it so strongly, I taught them both to use their gears to slow.... subsequent to that, my wife's car actually suffered a brake failure whilst descending a steep hill, because if what I had taught her, he was able to control the speed through the sharp corner at the bottom, slow to a crawl on the level section afterwards and bring the car to a safe stop using the handbrake. If I had not done what I did, I honestly believe she would have been seriously injured or killed... why do driving instructors not teach this, at the very least as an emergency situation???

@tonyb1223

2 жыл бұрын

Sounds like she suffered brake fade due to overheating the brakes on a decent down the hill, the signs are there and usually say use a lower gear whilst descending, though it probably depends where you live or who taught you to drive, in a city there isn't much use to it but I was taught that back in the 80's on using a lower gear on a decent, it also usually tells you in the owners manual, a vast book of knowledge that people don't read.

@alsmith5604

2 жыл бұрын

@@composimmonite3918 Yes... but once he ha taught people around the streets of Liverpool, they are legally permitted to drive anywhere... including the hills of Cumbria... so driving instructors should be teaching people how to cope with all conditions and what to do in emergency situations.

@alsmith5604

2 жыл бұрын

@@tonyb1223 No, the failure was actually due to a mistake by the garage who had serviced the car and just changed the brake pads... but irrespective of the cause of the failure, nothing is 100% reliable and all machines are prone to failures... so to me is should be an absolute essential that those skills are taught as they can literally save lives!

@elobiretv

2 жыл бұрын

It's hardly like you couldn't work out that you'd need to use the gears in that situation if you usually used the brake to slow down. personally I'd prefer to just make sure my brakes work all the time...

@alsmith5604

2 жыл бұрын

@@elobiretv So... HOW exactly do people "work that out" if they've never been shown? You might be mechanically minded, but the majority of the population are not... as for checking... so did my wife... they were fine when she set off, they failed whilst she was driving.

I’ve tried the ‘gear for go and brakes for slow’ method and I really hate it. I don’t feel in control of either my van or car. I use engine braking and double declutching all the time. This ‘new’ way of driving must be the reason I encounter drivers who never seem to be in the correct gear. I think it’s a lazy way to drive.

@R3DDL

2 жыл бұрын

I use this method and always seem to be in the correct gears. 🤷🏻‍♂️

@paul756uk2

2 жыл бұрын

That's purely a psychological thing not feeling safe and unless you're driving a 4 wheel drive, you're only getting braking on 2 wheels. How would you get on driving an auto where you get virtually no engine braking at all?

@onelyone6976

2 жыл бұрын

@@paul756uk2 I also tend to downshift when coming into a junction. And for me autoboxes are ok, but a manual is much more suited to my personal driving style

Passed my test first time with one minor thanks to you and your videos, thank you!

As a cyclist, changing gear for the subsequent start before stopping is a necessity. Derailleur gears can only be changed when the chain is moving forward, which only occurs when the bike is moving forward or you've lifted the rear wheel off the road (which is difficult to do in traffic). It's usually still *possible* to start off in too high a gear, but it's a struggle. Bicycles with *hub* gears can change while at a stand, but they're not so common these days. Experience teaches the necessary habit. The situation with motor vehicles is of course different, mainly due to the clutch which allows changing gear at any speed, including while at a stand. There is an additional complication with hybrid vehicles, because the drivetrain for charging the battery is through the gearbox on some (but not all) configurations. In that case, selecting a lower gear after you need to declutch from the high gear may assist in regenerative braking. I wouldn't change down one gear at a time, though - two gears at a time may often be better, as then you spend more time in gear and less effort on changing.

I remember my dad talking about the one day he was on a very steep hill descent and tried double clutching with a crash gear box in an 8-wheeler tipper. He missed one of the gears and couldnt get it back. He was on the brakes but they faded quickly and there was a cross road at the bottom of the hill with a yard being straight on - a dead end. Some how he came to a stop, brakes smoking like mad and he got out to assess the situation and work out where he needed to go, only to find himself perfectly on the weigh bridge of the place he was meant to be delivering to. Those days are certainly behind him and most commercial lorry drivers now! Edit (because some people took my comments to the extreme): I should clarify, brake fade is still a thing for hgvs but not like it was back in the day. A bit like brake fade is still a thing for cars (that dont have ceramics), but not like when cars had drum brakes back in the day.

@piciu256

2 жыл бұрын

In a truck you definitely need to preselect the proper gear, not changing mid descent.

@WatchesOnWood

2 жыл бұрын

@@piciu256 my understanding is that with the advancement of disc brakes, engine brakes and automatic gearboxes, the modern truck doesnt really have any real concerns about brake fade

@135Ops

2 жыл бұрын

@@WatchesOnWood Your understanding of driving and the point @Piotrus was making is pretty limited to be fair.

@WatchesOnWood

2 жыл бұрын

@@135Ops care to elaborate?

@kenbrown2808

2 жыл бұрын

brake fade is still a very real thing with heavies. but crash boxes are no longer common.

I'll admit I prefer to engine brake on top of standard braking and mae my way down the gears. Just like when going round a roundabout for example, coasting around it at speed is a big no-no because the car is unstable and being in gear gives you more control. This is the same for me under braking so i will selectively go down through the gears until i'm sub-1000 revs in 3rd gear, sometimes 2nd depending on the scenario, which is when i will declutch for the stop. I guess engine braking is seen as an advanced driving skill these days.

@dalmo001

2 жыл бұрын

@@jav.7611 I think you misunderstood the context of my statement, which was clearly in response to the video and Ashley's comment on in the view of the DVSA and some examiners, downshifting to engine brake could be a negative mark or in the terms of passing your test these days - a non-requirement, this prompted my comment "I guess engine braking is seen as an advance driving skill these days" as if it isn't seen as a basic or required skill, then it now must be catagorised under a more advanced form of driving in the view of the regulators.

@bogdan_n

2 жыл бұрын

@@dalmo001 Just ask any of the newer drivers about using the parking brake for starting uphill, and watch their reaction. (That is if the car isn't equipped with electronic parking brake).

@Purple__

2 жыл бұрын

@@jav.7611 Wait what, so you clutch and then brake until you are at the right speed? Why not just gear down (and if needed, brake as well). Letting the car roll out is great and increases fuel mileage, could reduce wear on the brake pads as well.

@Purple__

2 жыл бұрын

@@jav.7611 I don't agree, doing this wastes fuel and once you're used to doing so it does not require your active attention and it happens automatically. Also no need to switch to every gear, if I know I'm nearing a roundabout or traffic signal I could easily go from 5th gear to 3rd of even 2nd, depending on the traffic behind me and the amount of breaking that might be required. The gear to pick depends on the car as well, mine is very light (1L, 3cyl engine) so even at 5000RPM it does not engine brake a lot. Either way I've never learned to drive with the clutch continuesly pressed down until I've gone down to the right speed. Massive waste of fuel and energy and it also occupies your feet, what if you suddenly need to react by speeding up again?

@DaveSpecC

2 жыл бұрын

@@Purple__ I tend to do a bit both depending on the situation, but pads are wear and tear items. A gearbox is not.

Well done on the video Ashley, the eyes are the only thing in a car that should overwork, I was taught to drive this way forty years ago, I have never replaced a clutch or gearbox in my life, and one of my car's reached 200,000 miles plus, well done.

I remember you retrained me with this method and I teach it this way totally makes sense 🙌🏻

Totally worth it. Even if it's just so everyone within a quarter-mile can hear the gorgeous sounds of the pops and bangs on your remapped Mini as you attempt to heal-and-toe rev-match to the red line on every down-shift as you pull up to the lights outside McDonald's. Gosh they must think I'm so cool.

@allothernamesbutthis

2 жыл бұрын

i don't think i could drive a car with rev match.

@ianstoyan

2 жыл бұрын

@@allothernamesbutthis I drove a Nissan with rev match for a while. It's a nice feature, but I disabled it because I enjoy the challenge of perfecting heel-and-toe.

I believe using the gears to slow down can be more effective than using the brakes in low grip conditions i.e. Snow, ice etc. Would be interested to see some testing on that though to prove me wrong (or right). Again, as others have said, selecting a lower gear for going down particularly steep hills is also a good idea, though I can't imagine many places where it would be required for stopping as modern brakes can surely handle a few quick stops in maximum stress situations.

@sam-po7rx

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed but the only time I really see this being usefully would be extreme snowy/icy conditions. Most modern day brake systems can handle stopping in most conditions

@davidtanslow3584

2 жыл бұрын

Never ever use the gears and transmission to slow or stop on ice and snow!! Only idiots drive above the speed of the gear in ice and snow!!

@davidtanslow3584

2 жыл бұрын

@@composimmonite3918 With only 30 years driving artics I have recomended that no one encourage using gears to either slow down or stop. Only the brakes must be used for this purpose. The signs which say use low gears on slopes are there to ensure that you keep the transmission in the speed of the vehicle and not to encourage you to use the engine and transmission to slow you down. Always use the brakes!

@davidtanslow3584

2 жыл бұрын

@@composimmonite3918 The gear changing exercise to try to match the gears to the speed whilst slowing down is totally unescesary and a complete waste of time. Hope this satisfies your understanding. Even if the obstruction disappears it's far more simpler and efficient to do a box change down that progressing from one gear to the next. Common sense!

@kal9001

2 жыл бұрын

Just NO... Engine braking like that can and will lock up the drive wheels, or at least can provide enough resistance that you can start to slide. and there's no mechanism to prevent it.

I'll definitely have to give this a try. Used to driving an old Escort van with rear drums so engine braking is a must. Carried the habit over into the Passat. Always learn something from watching your videos. If you can improve just one driver you've made the roads just that little bit safer. Top man!

My *pet* Peeve is people who break for no apparent reason and then indicate their intention to turn left or right. Instead of indicate then break.

@rebeccaconlon9743

2 жыл бұрын

Reliance on Google maps, I've done this before simply because I couldn't see the junction I was told was ahead that I needed, and so I needed time to assess and so I slowed my speed down incase the turning was sooner than expected and needed to be safer. However, if you're keeping a safe stopping distance, this breaking and then indication shouldn't be much of an impact on your driving, if you're too close, then maybe take it a little calmer, as they may not know where they are going.

@M0odez

2 жыл бұрын

If someone is braking that's a very obvious sign that they will want to turn off soon, and it should be all you need to make the appropriate adjustment to your speed. I don't even get annoyed when people only brake and don't indicate left or right at all; it's easy to work out what they're going to do and plan accordingly.

@pifko87

2 жыл бұрын

My pet peeve is people unable to spell 'Brake'

@_Steven_S

2 жыл бұрын

Not as bad as those who slow from 60mph+ with no brake lights to warn everyone else because they're gearing down...

@uptheduffagain

2 жыл бұрын

So you want people to give you notice that they are going to have a coffee?

Passing other slowing traffic on multi lane carriageways you should select a gear to suit your road speed and not be in an inappropriate gear in case you need to take avoiding action. If the other traffic in this scenario is all but stopped, then fine with the depressed clutch.

After riding bikes for a decade I'll be using downshifting to my advantage all the time. Same as double clutching to build the boost, it has a purpose and not practicing stuff like that often make it easier to get wrong.

@FlyingFun.

2 жыл бұрын

Same here, bikes defo benefit control wise. When just driving normally I tend not to use engine braking these days though mainly for efficiency due to price of fuel lol.

Interesting, great insight into the subject. Thank you Ashley!

When I told my father the engine uses zero fuel when off gas in gear, he was impressed! It was a while back. Cheers for the video!

@RushfanUK

2 жыл бұрын

I think you will find that if the engine is running then it is using "Gas"

@olii9062

2 жыл бұрын

@@RushfanUK Not true. In modern cars when you are off the gas pedal the car stops supplying fuel to the engine because the energy from the wheels can still be used to spin the engine itself, especially when downhill.

@jacobfoster6773

2 жыл бұрын

@@RushfanUK Your info is out of date mate, in carburettored engines of the past that is true but in any "modern" vehicle (I use modern loosely as almost any vehicle in the last 25-30 years with electronic fuel ignition) will stop injecting fuel completely when you're off throttle, and will only start injecting fuel again when you're low in the rev range to prevent stalling or you're on the throttle again.

@MrSonicAdvance

2 жыл бұрын

@@RushfanUK Nope. If there is no throttle demand and the car wheels are driving engine rotation through the gearbox when slowing, then there is no fuel used in an well-controlled fuel-injected car.

@whitesapphire5865

2 жыл бұрын

This was even true in my 1984 Sierra XR4-I. It's not exactly a new concept.

My driving instructor taught me when coming to a stop let off the gas and then clutch down when the RPMs were getting low. Then when you're completely stopped or the traffic starts moving again is when you switch gears. Then my dad taught me to slow down using the gears and he said it was because I would wear down my brakes too quick by using them so much. I use both now depending on the scenario.

@gingernutpreacher

2 жыл бұрын

I had it the other way round this was only 21 years ago . I will say my Skoda citygo only needs to be de clutched at 18 my current car is 25mph so I find I don't need to that often

RoSPA uses the technique used in the police driving handbook - Roadcraft - which is the technique you teach Ashley. I learned the technique myself when I originally passed my advanced test twenty years ago - originally taught by going through the gears ten years prior to that.

@bp19870

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly the same method taught in IAM.

@7755ian1

3 ай бұрын

The police are good drivers are they? Really!

@phillipsiviter2024

3 ай бұрын

@@7755ian1 they used to be.

Hi Ashley Thank you very much for this video, the information is really helpful and I've learnt so much from your channel already. I'm presently an associate with Rospa (motorcycle) and my observer uses the same expression gears to go and brakes to slow, I understand that so much from watching this video. Thank you..

Excellent video have been doing something similar for long time nearly 67. Take foot off gas to engine break 6th and choose gear when necessary. Find I can do this just before engine hunts change to 3rd and then foot on clutch to stop or another gear if continue to move. Find when foot off gas better fuel consumption. Only break if necessary, anticipating is key.

30 years out of date 😬. I learnt to drive around 15 years ago (big up to Ruth at SurePass in Chester!) and I was taught to use the "brakes to slow & gears to slow" like you demonstrate here. My problem is used to commute on a 2 stroke 125cc and always had to work the box to get decent acceleration and unfortunately that has somewhat translated into my driving style too 🙄

@Wonderkid44

2 жыл бұрын

I passed two weeks ago, and I was taught to use gears to slow down.

I had gearing down drilled out of me for my blue light training - Information, position, speed, gear then acceleration (or brake) If your foot is on the brake, both hands on the wheel NOT the gear stick - if the traffic/lights ('the information') changes - select the appropriate gear for the speed you are doing. :)

@squadmeta

2 жыл бұрын

IPSGA and TUG. :D

@laureni6427

2 жыл бұрын

@@ts757arse makes sense, however I cant go back to my 'normal' driving now, its been drilled haha

Yup this is how my instructor is teaching me too. Can stop in any gear and then change when needed to move off

This was something I was wondering about for a while recently. Great explanation. As you said... its easier and cheaper to replace brakes than a clutch.

@kenbrown2808

2 жыл бұрын

other side of the coin: I've replaced a lot more brake shoes/pads than clutches.

@JdeBP

2 жыл бұрын

The point that M. Neal made is really that the wear-on-brakes and wear-on-clutch arguments are *both* specious. They aren't even the correct argument. The argument for changing down to come to a stop was because on U.K. cars in the first two thirds of the 20th century, drum brakes by themselves were not in fact good enough for braking all of the way down from high speeds to a complete stop. (They weren't. I've driven old drum brake cars.) This argument no longer applies. It hasn't really applied since at least the 1970s. Brakes got better.

Hi Ashley. Great video. I can confirm RoSPA advocate brakes are for slow, gears are for go exactly as you demonstrate. In fact going down through the gears to slow down would not be considered proper use of the 'system of car control' as separation of the braking (speed) and gear (changing) phases is what's advocated. With the exception of a little judicious brake/gear overlap at the end of braking if advantageous and done under full control as part of a planned approach of course, (that's a whole other topic!!) Combining braking and using the gears reduces control and so is less safe, as it gives you two things to do instead of one which is distracting - why bother? Brakes are to slow was how I was taught to drive in 1990/91. I think it was the near universal adoption of disc front brakes backed up by servo assistance by the early eighties that tipped the balance towards this approach to braking, at least on passenger cars, as brakes were now efficient enough to cope under normal conditions. Now of course we have ABS, traction control, ESP and on many cars all round disc brakes. Driving in snow and ice may present something of an exception, though mainly because if conditions are really bad you want to avoid braking as much as possible- hence the need to drastically reduce speed so you have time to slow almost exclusively on acceleration sense. You'll probably be in a lower gear anyway so not many gears to go down through!

@alanreynolds5985

2 жыл бұрын

Blimey, if you can’t do two things at once when driving, then you shouldn’t be driving. RoSPA are at odds with the police and Highway Code as they say it’s ok to straight line a roundabout and the police say you can’t. Given the number of wrecked police cars I see, I think I’ll continue to drive how I’ve always driven. I actually got stopped by police yesterday and was told my brake lights weren’t working. They started going over my van and couldn’t find any faults, even with the brake lights. I said that I drive ‘on the gearbox’ and thus don’t need to brake all the time.They argued ‘how do people know if you’re stopping’? I replied that the reducing gap between them and me should be a dead giveaway if they’re paying attention. I asked if the way I preferred to drive was an offence and they had the gaul to say ‘probably’!

@MK-1973

2 жыл бұрын

@@alanreynolds5985 so you slow down by changing down through the gears? That's a lot of effort when the brakes will do the job for you much more easily as they were designed to. The signal from your brake lights is also quite helpful to reinforce the fact that you're reducing speed - perhaps it might be worth reflecting further on the advice the police have given you, before someone crashes into the back of your van possibly injuring themselves and you. I appreciate the need to concentrate on many things while driving- not sure how braking and changing gear at the same time helps you stay in control of your vehicle and stay safe though?

@alanreynolds5985

2 жыл бұрын

@@MK-1973 So you’re not sure how braking and changing gear at the same time helps me stay in control of my vehicle and stay safe? Sounds like you’re not sure of much then. Certainly not as sure as I am. If people can’t concentrate enough on the vehicle in front, then it should be them you are addressing not me. My method ensures I’m always in the gear I need. I’ve been a passenger in cars driven by people who have passed in recent years and there seems to be much faffing about attempting to decide exactly where they should put the gear lever. I always know what gear I’m In. Driving standards are poor these days and I see instructors using methods that I do not think are safe. I tire of people thinking they need to fix things that ain’t broke or reinvent the wheel when we all know that round is best. Keep your arty farty methods of driving and look out for my tow bar. Quite a few haven’t, even when I’ve been stationary. Invariably I just get out, look at their car, smile and drive off. I don’t need their bad driving to affect my insurance. Good luck with the Brownie points. Incidentally, I’m 74 and still involved in racing and my reactions, awareness and skill are better than most of the people I encounter daily and that comes from younger racers who I teach, one of whom has just started an apprenticeship at Mercedes in Northampton two weeks ago and was offered the job within 3 hours and before they had finished interviewing the rest of the candidates. On his first day an instructor joked to a third year apprentice that he had more knowledge on his first day.

@MK-1973

2 жыл бұрын

@@alanreynolds5985 thanks for your reply. Your third sentence says it all really - you're still sure of yourself even though you've been warned by the police and you go on to say that you've been involved in several accidents. Presumably your attitude is they weren't your fault so that's alright then. I'm glad you have a rewarding life involved in motorsport but as I'm sure you know what works well on the race track isn't always suitable for public roads. I'll stick to my 'arty farty' methods of continuing to look to learn and improve my driving based on advice from experts like Ashley which I think has helped keep me and my family safe - no major accidents in thirty years. So the front of my car won't be gracing your tow bar any time soon I hope. Take care.

@alanreynolds5985

2 жыл бұрын

@@MK-1973 I never said I drive the same on the road as the track did I, so please do not presume things. I’m frequently accused of being far too considerate and too polite, so my driving cannot be that bad. I can’t help if people do not pay enough attention and hit me. Doing it when I’m stationary must surely exonerate me completely. My Son has just arrived for dinner and out of curiosity I asked how he drives his GT80 on the road. It appears he drives like me except he uses heel and toe too. He is if the opinion and the same as me that your method is just wrong. He has raced up until 3 years ago. Your constant use of brakes contributes so much pollution with the brake dust as can be seen on the wheels of the cars that are driven by people like you.

I passed an advanced driving course in the early 80's and was taught then to slow down using the brakes and drive using the gears , only using a lower gear on steep hills for extra braking .

It is in my RS6, love the sound.

I used to downshift to slow down for an intersection to reduce wear on brakes. Then on inspection they told me my brake discs had some surface rust. After that I started doing what is shown here. It's also more relaxing not having to rev-match lower gears all the time.

Before my wife's physical challenges, we always drove manual transmission vehicles. I nearly always down shiftewd when stoipping. I have heard pundits say how rough that is on the clutch. My clutch plates (and brake pads) regularly lasted 90,0000 - 100,000 miles. Proper technique and planning ahead is required. The extra stress on the engine and transmission is minimal, on the clutch negligible, less than to the brake pads. Braking is mechanicle and you're wearing the pads and disks the entire time you're slowing. Using the engine, there is, at most a very brief light slip of the clutch. I'm unimpressed with the whole "the brakes are cheaper" argument, especially when brake jobs are several hundred Dollars, Pounds, Euros, or whatever.

I don't have to gear down! My beautiful Skoda Karoq is fitted with a superb 7-speed DSG gearbox, which always has me in the correct gear. And I don't need to double-declutch either! It is not as much fun as driving my old Mk One Cortina GT nor the best car I have ever had, the Mk One Lotus Cortina. These days sometimes I don't feel as I am in charge, but boy was I glad about the Brake Assist last Wednesday when a car nipped in front of me on a dual carriageway and then slammed its brakes on, the Brake Assist had the brakes on immediately. I think it was an attempt at an insurance scam.

I passed my car driving test way back in 1980, I was taught to gear down but there was only 4 gears to choose from on my vehicle then. Four years later during my HGV1 lessons I was taught when slowing down or stopping to always be in the correct gear to enable an effective acceleration and when possible to keep the vehicle in motion to avoid a complete stop. A skill I was pleased to have when I started to be involved in truck and trailer recovery. The only time when driving a HGV I was told to gear down during my lessons was when approaching a pedestrian crossing, apparently back then the examiners expected a gear down change as an acknowledgment of my observing the crossing. Now I use a combination of both gear down and just braking depending on the conditions at the time.

I’ve been driving for nearly 7 years and after 2ish years I switched to this style of driving and I haven’t looked back so much more efficient in my opinion

You may not think that it constitutes coasting but your use of the clutch would undoubtedly have got you a fail for coasting were you taking a test in the 1970s - such is the way these things have changed (I hesitate to say evolved) over time.

@JdeBP

2 жыл бұрын

Ironically, as I mentioned in another comment, the actual 1979 Department of Transport Driving Manual (which I have here right beside me) gives exactly this procedure for coming to a stop. It was before the 1970s when this changed. As M. Neal points out, and as the 1979 Manual actually says (because it also says what "coasting" is), it's not coasting until right at the end because the clutch isn't down until step 6 of the (same Manual's) procedure for coming to a stop, which is in order to stop the engine from stalling. If you are braking with the footbrake, the car is in gear, and the clutch is not depressed, as one should be for most of the procedure, you are *not* coasting. Coasting is driving in neutral or with the clutch pedal depressed, which is only the case towards the end of the procedure. "This is unavoidable." says the 1979 Manual. "The important thing is to keep unavoidable coasting down to the shortest possible distance." Page 47.

As always, "it depends"... in a modern EFI car, coming to a stop, roll off and brake in gear till time to engage the clutch to stop.... when coming up to a scenario that will start moving because you CHOSE to slow early - something we choose to do a lot of the time as motorcyclists - gear down early and be ready to roll on... keep moving....

@allieandmaria

2 жыл бұрын

"something we choose to do a lot of the time as motorcyclist" - Is this perhaps more to do with the NEED to go through the gears on a motorbike?

@themittonmethod1243

2 жыл бұрын

@@allieandmaria I do it all the time in my manual transmission car as well... it is a good habit to be in!

Hi Ashley, I always taught "Gears are for going, Brakes are for slowing".

I am one of those that have used gear down, and yes I came from the old days of drum brakes and no ABS also. I'm about to take my Cat C this thurs, and in the training they don't like you to gear down, I figure this is because of the weighted load behind you, so only change down a gear when you're at the speed for the gear, my bus driving and now lorry training has given me a whole new level of patience on the road which is a good thing.

Definitely coasting especially coming to a stop in 6th or 5th gear.

Excellent video by Ashley, explained really well and the plethora of cameras showing what was going on out of the car, in car, at the instrument panel and on the pedals was brilliant. IAM does the same technique - brakes for slow, gears for go. I learned to drive 40 years ago and was taught to go down through the gears when slowing. Then I did my IAM test and had to learn to simply use the brakes to slow. Complete declutch before engine stall. This eases wear and tear on the clutch. Also gives more stable braking as brakes act on all four wheels whereas engine braking only on two (usually). When about to move off, select the correct gear and then come off the clutch. When approaching a hazard, IAM uses IPSGA - Information, Position, Speed (so adjust the speed using accelerator or brakes) Gear (once the correct speed has been reached) and Accelerate. The braking is done before the gear is changed. To balance the above, there are some situations where dropping a gear could be beneficial. These include: 1) Brake failure 2) Brake malfunction/weakness/overheating - less serious than complete failure 3) Going down a steep slope (be in the correct - lower - gear to stop the car running away, without having to ride the brakes) 4) In a fully loaded HGV where you need to use everything possible to slow down For minor slowing down, you can also use acceleration sense - just lift off the gas when needed. With practice this can be used to reduce the use of brakes to only when they are strictly needed.

My old Maxim “brakes to slow, gears to go’. Simply be in the gear you need for the speed you need that it is dictated by the road and traffic conditions. I was always taught to ‘block change’ up and down the Box. I taught it to my pupils and passed all check tests as an ADI

I drive a manual and enjoy downshifting a lot. It's super useful if you're slowing down but not necessary if you're coming to a stop. For example coming to a roundabout, I'm not planning on stopping unless I have to so downshifting gradually to second and being ready to stop or being in the correct gear to get power can be useful. Coming to a stop is a completely different story though but I still downshift when slowing if it's suitable. Also, not all of us have fancy expensive brake pads and you can reduce wear a decent bit with engine breaking.

For all the people asking (even though he explained it in the video): You don't need to gear down when stopping, the second you push the clutch down (after braking first obviously) and coming to a stop, it's all over. Just proceed to fully stop and select first gear and move off again whenever you can.

"Gears to go, brakes to slow". Ok, like many rules it has exceptions, but for the overwhelming majority of drivers in the overwhelming majority of circumstances there are good reasons that little phrase is taught.

@seemorebeer2848

2 жыл бұрын

*Many exceptions ! You wouldn’t sit on your brakes all the way down a one mile decline now would you? 🤔🤪 Come on now

@stevesmith7530

2 жыл бұрын

@@seemorebeer2848 No, I would not. I would select an appropriate gear beforehand, which in my case could be slower than walking pace down a 40 degree slope. Perhaps "brakes to create slow" would be more to your taste?:) Although to slow is used in the sense of a verb, a doing word, in the simple mantra, rather than as an adjective, a being word. The problem appears to be what people define as engine braking. Engine braking to change to an appropriate speed = generally bad, engine braking to maintain a suitable speed = good.

@1daddyDA

2 жыл бұрын

Yes of course this has exceptions but it’s what I always taught my pupils

My old boss demonstrated this technique and explained it to me about 35 years ago, he was a member of IAM. I’ve been largely doing this on the road since unless I’m in my classic with its distinctive exhaust sound 😉 or on a track day

I can confirm that both IAM (I hold a Masters Diploma with Distinction) & Rospa (I have a Gold Certificate) totally advocate the Brakes to slow Gears to go routine. This also means that when slowing down you are retarding all 4 wheels (in a 2 wheel drive car) which vastly improves braking performance & stability, whereas using gears to slow only retards the 2 driven wheels which is inefficient & unstable, but also fails to give due warning to following traffic by showing brakelights. I retired from driving instruction in 2015 but never once taught a pupil to use the gearbox to slow, despite several parents telling me I was teaching their offspring the wrong technique.

@PippetWhippet

2 жыл бұрын

I feel like you, and a lot of others are making a weird straw man argument here, people don’t use engine braking exclusively to slow down, they slow down on their brakes and select a lower gear to supplement their braking, and be in the correct gear to react quickly to changes in the road ahead.

I've frequently reproached younger drivers of my acquaintance, after they have approached a roundabout or junction at speed and then braked at the last minute - and their response has been "but I was taught to do that". I've found that difficult to believe until now - but I guess I am out of date, having passed my test in 1971 😁

@slothgoingfast

2 жыл бұрын

I think a lot of people really do leave it a bit late though. :)

@horspiste

2 жыл бұрын

@@slothgoingfast the real jokers are those who race up to the junction knowing that they can't see what's coming from the right until they get there and have to stop anyway- unless of course they intend to just drive out come what may 🤣

@horspiste

2 жыл бұрын

@@jav.7611 I hope (and think) you're right - but maybe they interpret things that way? Taught or not, there's lots of them doing it....

@horspiste

2 жыл бұрын

@@jav.7611 my responses are also coloured by the fact that I'm a motorcyclist as well - it's not so easy to just "pick a gear" on a bike....

If anyone accuses me of coasting, I'll just say no, no... Ash said it's a "controlled roll".

I absolutely agree with you. I passed my IAM in 2010 and my IAM F1rst in 2019. I do wish other drivers updated their skills.

That's an interesting one. I was taught that way too, so it's ingrained in me and I'll probably have a lot of trouble changing. The other thing is that I no longer drive a manual.

I always down shift to make the most of fuel cut off mode and save fuel. I rev match to the gear to reduce clutch wear

@stuartmcconnachie

2 жыл бұрын

Driven 160k in a vehicle and almost always use downshifting in place of brakes when coming to a stop. Still on original clutch….

@assassin3g

2 жыл бұрын

But isn't the revmatching counterproductive to fuel economy? Obviously it's gonna cost less fuel then when the engine is under load, but a sharp blip will definetly cost you some fuel. I personaly love to revmatch to hear the engine roar and it is so satisfying to get it just right so the clutch doesn't have to match speeds, but strictly fuel effciency speaking I think it is a bit better to let the car idle under its own power for a bit longer.

@micheals1992

2 жыл бұрын

@@assassin3g not sure if it's good but I average 68-75mpg in a Toyota Aygo. I just try to use all of my kinetic energy and use as much waste energy to keep the engine turning in fuel cut off mode during engine braking... It's rare I down shift below 3rd for this though unless I know I'll need 2nd gear (like to slow down for a tight corner that requires you to slow below 20mph)

I really don’t miss driving a manual in traffic like that. It’s amazing really how antiquated it looks with all the body movements it entails!

@PippetWhippet

2 жыл бұрын

Some people just don’t like giving that much control of their car up to technology, for me, automatics exist to allow unconfident drivers access to the roads without being a danger to themselves and others. I’ll add the bone idle to that as well, imagine watching a gear change and thinking the person is doing “all that” movement

Being a tight yorkshire man I use the correct gears to slow down ( no over revving ) as it regens my hybrid battery so I don't use as much fuel for the next uphill section

I like that whirring sound when you lift the clutch pedal slowly.

Brakes can fail on any car and then your screwed, always change down and use engine braking, hybrids do this to regenerate and some have a brake gear.

@PippetWhippet

2 жыл бұрын

Yep, on my plug in hybrid, gearing down doesn’t only save me brake wear, it saves me fuel thanks to the regeneration.

@toxlaximus3297

2 жыл бұрын

@@PippetWhippet Exactly, two birds with one stone, Ash should get with the times and stop driving outdated manual transmission cars, its all CVT Hybrids now. :P

@xlphos

2 жыл бұрын

@@PippetWhippet in an auto why bother? do plugins have ghost gears like hybrids, I like the linear acceleration of an EV.

I do, on my motorbike, it's how I get 93 mpg average on it. I use engine breaking and slight brake all the time, coming up to a bend I will drop a gear rather than brake, or if I see a potential hazard ahead or speed limits I will also drop a gear. My bike has an automatic transmission you can over ride with buttons, by standard it wants to get to 6th asap. Engine braking to me is also important in the wet with potential diesel spills, it allows for more control and avoids accidental lock up.

@mammadtori3964

2 жыл бұрын

Motorcycles are a lot different as they don't have as much grip and brake effectiveness as cars and you are fine changing gears to slow down

@funkycowie

2 жыл бұрын

@@mammadtori3964 when I was learning to drive a car a few years ago I really missed that engine braking in the automatic I was learning in.

@dasp125

2 жыл бұрын

It’s a fail in advanced motorcycle training if you use your gears to slow. You should slow with the brakes and only select the gear once engine and road speeds are matched. You can easily lockup your back wheel by down shifting at higher engine speeds, even with a slipper clutch. You also should be loading weight onto the front suspension and tire before cornering to maximise grip. This can’t be done with engine braking, only by applying front brake.

@funkycowie

2 жыл бұрын

@@dasp125 hence stating I use engine braking and slight brake. By that I also meant front brake only with DCT the front is loaded. I only use the rear brake when stationary.

@dasp125

2 жыл бұрын

@@funkycowie oh ok, I miss understood what you meant. Although you should use front brake more with some back, not just front on its own. Even 50/50 in wet conditions and back only in ice and snow. Unless your bike automatically applies rear brake with the front. I know some new bikes have this technology.

Yup, not outdated as previous reply from you, it's the way to do it and means your in correct gear if needing to get going again and saves wear on clutch components as your not sitting with foot on clutch for long periods of time, Saves brakes as well as the engine can assist with braking and means your in more control over the car.

I always use the gear that fits the road speed and engine RPM, every car is different and road conditions are often different. So there is no hard and fast rule that fits all. I'll often skip gears going up or down through the gears, like set off in 2nd if I'm going downhill from a standing start, or 5th to 2nd if I'm coming to stop at traffic lights that look like they might change so I'm ready to set off. Depends on the car, engine size, power, even fuel type etc all behave differently, again no hard or fast rule. One of my cars I can change from 2nd straight into 5th, my other car would probably manage 2nd into 4th etc etc But the main thing is be in the right gear for the speed you're doing and to keep the engine revs in the optimum range, be looking ahead to make the changes early and in time for stopping, slowly or moving forward.👍😎 Even advise from a driving instructor will differ from person to person. Our son was taught by his instructor to sit at the lights with his car in 1st gear, handbrake on, clutch in at biting point, ready to set off. When he did this when I was in the car I told him it was bad practise to sit with the engine running and clutch at biting point, his reaction was like 'what do you know, my instructor says its okay!' I explained what the clutch plate and flywheel on his car were doing and how it would over heat, wear out quickly etc you could even smell the clutch getting hot! ⚠️😯 He kept driving like that when he passed his test and sure enough his clutch failed very early!

Watching this, I was reciting "brakes to slow, gears to go", and about to scroll down to say this, when....you said it. Both IAM and RoSPA use roadcraft as their base, and both use the above phrase, and keep the gear you're in until necessary to stop or depress the clutch. We've had adequate brakes since the early 1950s, and by the early 70s there really was no need to gear down when slowing, yet DVSA (and its predecessors) expected it on test until 1997, which is partly the reason it lives on. I've had many conversations with parents, arguing about this.

I thought coasting was when no gear was selected.

@VSTV1993

2 жыл бұрын

You are right but that's only if theres no reason to not be in gear. Say your driving down a hill and you just decide to depress the clutch or select neutral then that is coasting

@7755ian1

3 ай бұрын

Clutch down translates to "No gear selected"

I'm feeling old now but I must agree in what your saying 👍

As pointed out in the video, it's easier to replace brake parts than clutch parts, and if you're paying a garage to do it then it's cheaper too. Only time I would change down while slowing down is when I'm pretty confident about what gear I'll need when I want to accelerate again.

@douglasreid699

9 ай бұрын

in the 18 years i have been driving i have had 3 vans, 2 of which were over 130k miles on the original clutch, as well as family memebers that drive long distance for work, with most of their vehicles going over 100k miles with the original clutch, and we all down shift through gears, it does not make a difference in a vehicle from 2001 onwards as the clutches are designed to last into the 100kmile range. its how you use the clutch that creates wear. if you hold the clutch down while you wait, that adds wear. if you hold it on the biting point while pulling away, that creates wear. using the clutch to hold it on a hill junction longer than 10seconds, that creates wear. personally i would rather be in gear while slowing down as it gives 2 options if a situation arises, you can stop or you can go forward if space. i had an incident on the motorway once where i was in 2nd gear slowing for stopped traffic and checked my mirror and car behind wasnt going to stop so i dived for the hard shoulder as i was in gear ready to go. my dad was an advanced driving instructor when in the army in the 70s, he taught me to pass a test and then to drive, and thats one of the many tips he showed me, give yourself options.

Going down through the gears sequentially means you're in the car's power band more of the time, so that if you need to accelerate you're already good to go. By putting the clutch in at say 40 or 50 mph because there is a queue ahead, for me, you're undoubtedly in less control of the car than if you went down to 4th, 3rd etc. Pros and cons. I also enjoy rowing through gears so that's certainly part of it!

@mammadtori3964

2 жыл бұрын

So you think police interceptors and advanced drivers don't know this? the guys who go to pursuits at over 120 mph do this same thing, you shouldn't overlap braking and gear changing that is.

@elobiretv

2 жыл бұрын

I don't think you are in less control because the braking is giving the same effect as the engine breaking would have. I don't see why you would really need to be ready to accelerate when you can see traffic ahead is totally stopped either. At best it may start moving as you get closer and you may want a low gear like 2nd which just makes shifting through all the gears pointless.

@Duncan94

2 жыл бұрын

@@elobiretv It was just an example, you obviously wouldn't be looking to accelerate coming up to queued traffic. Only using the brakes doesn't give the same level of deacceleration as using the brakes and engine braking.

@Duncan94

2 жыл бұрын

@@mammadtori3964 The system of car control is a very methodical way of driving. Too methodical for my liking. It's not fluid enough.

@piciu256

2 жыл бұрын

@@elobiretv maybe not advantageous in most situations, but it's definitely not a bad thing to do, all this means is planning ahead and engine braking instead of using the brake pedal, not braking and changing gears at the same time etc.

Those ancient gear things will soon be consigned to history... Gear stopping in my old jalopy works n I get a sad sense of fun knowing I'm confusing drivers behind by no brake lights showing. keeping clutch down stretches cable...

@littlebluepanda394

2 жыл бұрын

As someone who has been using regenerative braking to recharge my battery for the last six years I approve of this comment.

@crabsy6452

2 жыл бұрын

Because you can change speed with a hydrostatic tractor you can slow down to a practical stop without using the brakes

@piciu256

2 жыл бұрын

Holding clutch down also wears the throw out bearing if you do it too much.

I 'coast' (or not) in this way quite a lot. Always though I was technically wrong for doing this, so I'm glad to know that there's nothing actually wrong with it. Makes driving that little bit easier.

I'm doing the ROSPA advanced driving course - its all orientated around the police "system of car control". Every hazard is supposed to be addressed as IPSGA (Information Position Speed Gear Accelerate) ... so basically you should set the appropriate speed and _then_ chose the appropriate gear. It is definitely taking some getting used to as you need to brake a little earlier (or harder) to leave time to slot home the gear before (eg.) a sharp corner. But it does work well when you get it right - you can focus on your observations as you slow rather than trying to rev-match the gear change with heal-and-toe.

I do think it's beneficial for learners to down through gears and keep the revs in the operating range. You'll learn to downshift properly as well as get the feel of which gear is apropriate to the speed you're going and the sound of the engine. Otherwise, it's completely fine, my dads driving is impeccable, and he's a certified coaster 😆

@SuperNovaHeights_

2 жыл бұрын

I’ll continue to drop gears when I’m coming to a stop or slowing down

@garyohara4612

2 жыл бұрын

Yh I agree with that 🤣 maybe not textbook but in a car you can select the right gear when you need it if your breaks are working as they should be. I wouldn’t do that going downhill in my truck. I suppose it all comes with experience and knowing what your capable, your vehicle is capable of and being able to effectively judge what is happening in front of you. Experience.

Have you seen the signs before steep hills going down "select low gear" its so the engine assists with the breaking. As a lorry driver in the past (I know many lorries now have automatic gear boxes) a lorry driver would always go down the gears ( I actually think automatic gearboxes are setup to do this anyway) so its a habit I've got into and what I feel comfortable with.

@kenbrown2808

2 жыл бұрын

difference between heavy vehicles and light vehicles. light vehicles have a lot more brake per weight than heavies, which makes the brakes a lot more forgiving of hard use.

@JdeBP

2 жыл бұрын

A lot of commenters here have missed the "to stop" in the title of the video, and mentioned by M. Neal several times. "Ah! But to go downhill ..." comments aren't talking about the right thing. The issue is whether changing down is mandatory, or even modern recommended practice, in order to *stop* a car. People think that it is, but it actually is not. (It wasn't even recommended practice for cars back in 1979, as I pointed out in another comment.) Going downhill, or slowing down to a slower road speed whilst continuing, is not stopping. And the procedure is not the same for the two.

Taught by the Army back in the 1980's, first in a car then did my conversions, Land Rovers were fine with no double clutching, even 4 Tonners, though you were taught to double clutch them (drum brakes all round), some of the older vehicles like the Bedford RL's that were still knocking around (and in some cases there were the odd K9 :o ), these required a different method of driving. I was taught to go down the gears, but not like it was explained here, more when you slow down, not dropping though the gearbox in a car, needed more on LR's with trailers or 4 tonners with trailers. On the car, it was more like that shown here, and coasting was when you sat on the clutch for an excessive amount of time, but overall its fairly similar with maybe dropping from 4th to 2nd for example rather than 4, 3, 2 (yep, most of the cars we had were 4 speed manuals back then).

another great video

I was taught to use engine breaking in slippery/icey conditions. Does this make sense?

@martinconnelly1473

2 жыл бұрын

No. Simply put engine braking works on one axle only and one wheel on that axle only due to the differential, brakes work on all four wheels and are balanced correctly for safest braking. A 4 wheel drive vehicle in 4 wheel drive mode may get engine braking on 2 wheels but there is no guarantee of that.

@sparkycalledmarky

2 жыл бұрын

No. On ice (or even in rain when it's slippery), a mismatch of road speed and engine speed can break traction that's difficult to recover (you might need to pump the gas to regain, which isn't ideal when you're trying to slow).

@martinconnelly1473

2 жыл бұрын

@@sparkycalledmarky ABS works on the brakes when using the brakes, not when you use engine braking. A modern car with ABS should be slowed using the brakes as it will maintain traction of all the wheels and steerability that you lose with engine braking. You are not using a modern car correctly if you use engine braking.

@sparkycalledmarky

2 жыл бұрын

​@@martinconnelly1473 I didn't reply to you with "no", it was to the question of "does using engine braking in icy conditions make sense?": No, because it doesn't. I've then explained a bit of why: engine braking can cause a loss of traction which is more difficult to deal with in icy conditions (which may need throttle input to correct, which is a dangerous position to put yourself in when trying to slow), thus isn't suitable for those icy conditions.

@martinconnelly1473

2 жыл бұрын

@@sparkycalledmarky Sorry if you read it as not agreeing with you, I thought I was adding to what you said regarding traction.

perhaps a good reason for engine braking is so you know how to slow and stop your car without brakes. Brakes can and do fail and instead of going into panic mode and pressing the brake pedal you will have the know how and experience to engine brake. How often do brakes fail, rarely I suspect but that is not the point.

I usually slow down enough to go into third, so I can have a slowed and controlled stop in time or to go straight into second if the lights go green.

12 years ago: My driving Instructor told me that changing down gears gives more control in deceleration and to no coast along, I should never try to do a declutched roll... even when controlled. He didn't elaborate when to declutch or maybe he did but I don't remember but I quickly learnt that 1000 revs is about the safe minimum. 900 is the stalling threshold. In a my Ford Focus MK2 and in the Fiat ER Van, 5th gear can cruise at 30mph just about but you do have to be alert and prepared to declutch for any slowing down. It's really not advised but it is possible to do safely. With that said, the fuel efficiency is a bit undermined by the fuel demand of trying to accelerate from a stop. But I don't think any car can get to 10mph in 5th gear...

Well with motorbikes you sort of have to 😉

@EinkOLED

2 жыл бұрын

It's much easier on a motorcycle, the higher revs allows you to prevent the needle reaching the rev limiter. But yes, it's essential on a bike and there are times where you don't even need to use either brake.

@Gobbbbb

2 жыл бұрын

@@EinkOLED Yes but the gearing accounts for the additional revs. Engine braking on a bike like you say though can be a lot stronger than a car, I still like to tap the brakes though just so the brake light comes on.

@elobiretv

2 жыл бұрын

Not really, just come to a stop and then flick through the gears.

@hazharibo7439

2 жыл бұрын

Do you do any advice on driving automatic transmission. I've had to teach myself..

@EinkOLED

2 жыл бұрын

@@Gobbbbb You do have to be careful not to select a lower gear at a given speed, there's a potential to lock the rear wheel.

Not watched it yet but depending on road speed and what your actually doing then yes, try driving a oldschool auto on the hills of yorkshire with zero engine braking.

Got to agree with the 30 years out of date, those types had best get up- to date with the Highway Code too. Look forward to the Highway Code update video.

I have taken the RoSPA advanced car test. My tutor taught me the same system as described by you. Gears to go and brakes to slow. Keep up the good work Ash.

I've always called it engine braking, probably because my Dad did so too. I use it all the time, and it's one of the reasons I dislike automatic gearboxes!

@JdeBP

2 жыл бұрын

The thing is: it isn't. Staying in the same gear all the way down to the stall point is *also* engine braking. When it isn't engine braking is when you have the clutch depressed and the engine isn't being driven by the wheels. Engine braking is when the wheels drive the engine rather than the other way around. Ironically, if one comes to a stop properly in the way that M. Neal describes and doesn't press the clutch too soon, one can actually spend less time overall with the clutch depressed and no engine braking happening than one does with all of those clutch depressions to change down. Whilst one is changing gear, one is not engine braking.

I think what a lot of drivers do (admittedly those that are not particularly interested in the skill of driving) is do both at the same time, ie brake and change down through the gears. It’s all about the correct gear for the speed and conditions that suit your particular vehicle, losing speed by deceleration and braking then matching the gear to the new speed. When approaching hazard/round about/junction etc prepare to stop but plan to go should the conditions allow. As Ashley said, observation and forward planing will always allow you to use both brakes and gears appropriately and make good efficient progress.

I go down through the gears if I am rolling up to a situation where there is a chance that I will get an opportunity to keep going if there is a safe gap. For example, coming onto a roundabout or an appropriate give way junction. Of course if I am coming to a stop I won't do it because I know I will be stopping anyway. I think your conclusion summed this one up well, it doesn't really matter if you do or don't do this.

driving evolves, perhaps the biggest issue is that we drivers forget to evolve with it. I learnt to drive a car with only the rev counter, this, as you have said, will depend on the individual car, thus you need to analyse each car individually. I think today we need to concentrate on our well-being within the driving environment and be more relaxed. Anything that brings this goal about should be used, although at the end of the day it is down to the individual to decide what works for them. Great video

Great video and I could comment on so many different aspects of this. Here's one and I'm sure you all recognise: 1. I'm in slow moving traffic on a downward slope. 2. Gear stick physically in 2nd gear but due to slow traffic speed & downward slope, clutch down and simply using brakes to control my speed in the slow moving traffic. 3. Is this coasting? I've often done this for quite a distance if the downward slope and traffic jam is long enough. 4. In any case, what's the alternative? Use 1st gear for greater engine braking and clutch up to connect "drive"? Much too jerky in my opinion & the method I described is much smoother. Thoughts anyone?

It’s a big thing in transport, we got taught to never engine brake due to wear on the engine and clutch like you mentioned, a set of brake pads are far cheaper than a clutch or engine fix. just for reference, my 2.2 tdi ford S Max will sit nicely at speeds as low as 30mph on a flat road in 6th gear, it’ll even pull away in the same gear from 30mph without too much fuss.

@Asto508

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly this. Brake pads are cheap, engine and gear is not.

I had a pupil once who told me "my dad said I should always use the gears to help slow the car down". Didn't seem to matter at all what I said, (as a professional ADI).......Dad knows best etc.... Consequently, he failed his test for 'USE OF GEARS'. Sometimes you just have to let the stubborn ones go through the test (as long as they're safe of course) to prove a point! He wasn't matching the gear to the speed of the car - we would often find ourselves being thrown forward in our seats as he changed down to 2nd whilst still travelling at a speed far too high for 2nd gear. A waste of time and indeed a waste of fuel! I don't have any problems if someone wants to change down through the gears as long as the gear chosen is the right one for the speed and the engine. Otherwise, I agree completely with Ashley - there is little point in going down through the gears when you're pretty sure you're going to stop. I have often noticed older drivers going down through the gears when approaching a bend or corner but with each gear change the clutch stays down, even when going around the bend or corner, which is the definition of 'coasting'!

If you’ve got a gate change you can pick any gear next. Bikes with sequential boxes have to go through all the gears every time. So go second to fourth or fifth to third as you need to. Or want to