I'm sorry. I screwed up with this one. In a few facts and details, certainly, but also in ways that I didn't expect when writing it. And I don't want things to be taken the wrong way, so please, let me clarify: First, the intro was not intended to make fun of or belittle the fanbase of Persona in any way, and I'm sorry if it came across as mean spirited. Being protective of a franchise isn't a bad thing. I know from doing episodes on franchises like Dark Souls that there are just fanbases who are more amenable to theorizing than others and by choosing this episode, no matter what I would say, it would make some people angry (even if the facts had all been straight, which again, some weren't). I wrote that intro trying to play up the joke that it was a video no one would like, and in the process, I created a self-fulfilling prophesy that offended people and I'm sorry about that. It's never my intent to offend people. Maybe poke fun of in a joking way or call out for bad behavior (some other KZreadrs), but it's never my goal to offend a group of people for liking what they like -- I'm sorry if it came off that way. Second, I clearly didn't go deep enough or understand everything as clearly as I thought I did. As with the Phoenix Wright episode (another misjudgment on my part), I thought this game would function well-enough as a stand-alone title, but clearly there were added details in other games as well as supplemental content that I just didn't take into consideration. There were a few facts in this one that I either forgot to double check because I assumed I knew them off the top of my head (Elizabeth) or I could have explained better (Izanami). Again, I should have gone deeper, but time constraints and thinking I had covered all the necessary ground made me stop looking when clearly I should have kept digging. Third, sorry for being defensive. My life this past weekend was incredibly stressful and sad, so having a video receive a heavy backlash in the middle of it all was the last thing I needed, which resulted in me losing my head. Please remember that I receive hundreds of comments every day telling me how awful I am as a person and how I should die because I said X about Y character and that 99% of the time I let it run off me, but sometimes it just gets to you. This weekend was one of those times, so I ask you to forgive that brief saltiness. And lastly, regarding how I handle criticism, I want you to know that I'm listening. All the time. I read the comments, and yes, I don't respond a lot because when I have in the past, people have taken my responses the wrong way. Instead, I take your comments to heart and try to adjust the programming and scripts on the channel accordingly. Heck, this whole episode was in an effort to try and address some people who were tired of hearing about the same franchises over and over again. It's a bit of a Catch-22. My policy always was "Read the criticism and make changes to the series based on the feedback, but never directly call it out." That only prompted a lot of backlash of people saying "He doesn't acknowledge criticism." So, I've tried addressing negativity in a public way, but people criticized me for doing that too saying I was "bad at taking criticism" because I did that. It often feels like a lose-lose situation. Just know that I'm not writing this to be defensive, but to sincerely apologize for the mistakes in this video, the lack of clarity in some of the jokes, and to promise you that I will continue to work at getting better about all these issues. - MatPat

@kimsunova237

6 жыл бұрын

As long as you acknowledge your own mistakes and work actively to better yourself and go about it civilly thats all we can ask for, keep doing what you're doing and enjoy yourself.

@kahunalegend4249

6 жыл бұрын

well said matt pat

@orangestorange7374

6 жыл бұрын

Don't beat yourself up matpat. I'm a big fan and you have consistently good videos, just a few have been really bad in the years I've watched

@KidYoureAHomo

6 жыл бұрын

That'll do pig, that'll do.

@rickalbuquerque595

6 жыл бұрын

theories get desproven, that's completely normal

Broke: Teddie is Yu’s shadow Woke: Teddie is lucifer

@memperkasaya2078

4 жыл бұрын

Is that a Fither reference?

@pookiegaming75

4 жыл бұрын

@@memperkasaya2078 mayhaps

@thepillowhead2453

4 жыл бұрын

Luke Hogan The god you worship is dead.

@walker110701

3 жыл бұрын

Now THAT'S a theory!

@ouroborosereunetez4937

3 жыл бұрын

LUCIFER IS YU'S SHADOW

For as much as I love Persona, it seems that MatPat needs to reach out to the truth with this one.

@azkera

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, he really seems off these days, maybe he should pursuit his true self again

@haimirich7991

4 жыл бұрын

At this rate it’s time to make history correct though

@StargamerStarBro

4 жыл бұрын

I'd also say his brain is reaching maximum capacity.

@brau7152

4 жыл бұрын

Was that a joke because it was kinda awful

@madewithkinemaster2798

4 жыл бұрын

BbBBbA6YYyYYYYBabYYyYbabBYYyYbabayyyyy

Yu doesn't have a shadow because A) he has nothing to hide B) his power was awoken by Izanami herself, and last but not least; C) Adachi functions as his narrative shadow

@88phantasmagoria

Жыл бұрын

i’m gonna have to go with d. he’s the protagonist

@Edski10

Жыл бұрын

@@88phantasmagoria That as well, yes

@cking4869

Жыл бұрын

Well there's only one thing for it then. TEDDY IS ADACHI CONFIRMED

@kirinbobarcana

Жыл бұрын

Well technically, Adachi isn't LITERALLY, Yu's shadow but rather a shadow representation of what could have happened to Narukami.

@Juni_Bowman

10 ай бұрын

I am curious about one thing he said tho, he talked about namatame being able to use the tv, if izanami gave everyone those powers, why did namatame get it as well? I’m not a persona expert so I don’t really know

I love how this whole "theory" falls apart the moment you realize that at the very end Izanami tells Yu that they gave him his powers, and because of that, he gets to skip all of the fighting your shadow thingie. Also Yu's arcana isn't The Fool, his inital Persona is, but since he has the power of the Wild Card, his arcana becomes whatever Persona's he's holding

@wooble6222

4 жыл бұрын

no it falls apart when you look at the pinned comment

@rokia360

4 жыл бұрын

I'm pretty sure he's a Wild Card because his Arcana is the Fool. Like in the Persona 1&2 every party members are technically a wild card but not really because some personas of other arcanas aren't compatible with them. But because his arcana is the Fool he's can use any persona he wants

@waifuluver2727

4 жыл бұрын

isn't Yu's Arcana the World at the end of the game?

@wooble6222

4 жыл бұрын

@@waifuluver2727 I don't know, I haven't finished it yet

@deviledpotato17

4 жыл бұрын

@@wooble6222 wow

Yu doesn't have a Shadow because he doesn't have anything to hide They said that in the game

@rodnierrodriguez9087

5 жыл бұрын

On the anime,he did face his shadow on the fight with margaret...

@Sushi_Lover_707

5 жыл бұрын

But also in the true ending Izanami, disguised as the gas station attendant, triggered his persona by a handshake. The same goes with Adachi and Namatame.

@grey292

5 жыл бұрын

Lisa Rittmeyer ahem you mean Nanako

@Sushi_Lover_707

5 жыл бұрын

@@grey292 What do you mean?

@grey292

5 жыл бұрын

Lisa Rittmeyer everyone knows Nanako is the killer

> Says he researched the game a lot > Calls Margaret Elizabeth

@gudetamas

6 жыл бұрын

ikr

@shikitohnoreal7199

6 жыл бұрын

GammaFox By "researched",he means looking at some of the wiki articles for the game and then made a video on it.

@Clandor

6 жыл бұрын

Oh no, a simple mistake?! Therefore everything in the video has to be wrong(not saying it is or isn't but the fact that one little error debunks everything is ludicrous). Maybe one little typo, or a late night working the script or working on other things, or a simple slip of the mind. Its easy to make one simple mistake and not realize. You've never forgotten someone's name wrong or misremembered something in your life? Not saying everything should be forgiven but this is such a tiny little mistake that everyone is turning into a mountain is stupid.

@FlameFlowerTheCat

6 жыл бұрын

i have been thinking the same thing

@fusionxaran

6 жыл бұрын

I noticed it but I just found it funny because he got it wrong

"Yu has no shadow" *Cries in Adachi*

@mikeockhurts904

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah he missed the entire point of the game.

@MiguelAngel-go4ck

3 жыл бұрын

Im not a very smart person but im pretty sure adachi is a real human

@Max78000

3 жыл бұрын

Miguel Ángel yeah but adachi is meant to represent Yu’s shadow

@MiguelAngel-go4ck

3 жыл бұрын

@@Max78000 i know that but is pretty weird he doesnt have a proper shadow

@MiguelAngel-go4ck

3 жыл бұрын

@Luka Nastic sounds pretty biased towards the protag idk

It’s funny to analyze the velvet rooms because P5 is a prison because he feels repressed P3 is a moving elevator because he’s never settled anywhere. P4 is a limo because he’s baller and everyone loves him.

@Corridor3000

Жыл бұрын

Wasn't it a prison in p5 cus of yaldabaoth?

@legromp2357

8 ай бұрын

No. Ren/ Akira's velvet room is still a prison in p5 royal's third semester after Yaldabaoth's defeat. And I doubt it was Atlus just being lazy. It's pretty shocking how detailed they were in making sure there weren't contradictions. For instance, Lavenza has her own lines for tutorial stuff if you never entered the velvet room to get Caroline and Justine's tutorial.@@Corridor3000

@Kitsu_Worm

4 ай бұрын

@@Corridor3000 nah, even though he can tackle Velvet room. I think P5 representation of Prison is from Joker. because he just come fresh when every his surronding against him.

Welp, this was bound to happen sooner or later :p

@shikitohnoreal7199

6 жыл бұрын

SuperButterBuns Oh hey it's buns(also that sounds like you're dissapointed)

@WhosManIsThis

6 жыл бұрын

Help this man buns 😂

@CR0WMURD3R

6 жыл бұрын

SuperButterBuns helloooo! Huge fan of you and your videos! I wasn't expecting you to be here at all....heh.

@be_epbop

6 жыл бұрын

lol it's Super Butt Buns

@alacapajohndaniel6282

6 жыл бұрын

Superbutterbuns Shenpai!

>Says Elizabeth >Shows Margaret *T R I G G E R E D*

@sahajsin7847

6 жыл бұрын

illidan193 he doesn't do editti g

@Rotilisk

6 жыл бұрын

SahajSin he's still talking about Persona 4. Which doesn't have Elizabeth.

@jrock1174

6 жыл бұрын

illidan193 i got triggered too lol

@Dusty_B

6 жыл бұрын

What about Marie?!!

@Rotilisk

6 жыл бұрын

Dusty Benjamin what about Marie? She's not the assitant; she was just there.

1: the game says Yu has no shadow cuz he has nothing to hide, he represents the Fool arcana, which is basically a blank slate with infinite potential A *blank* slate There's nothing there How could he be hiding something when there's nothing there? 2: ur saying "Teddie's social link maxes out automatically so Teddie is Yu's shadow," but that logic would mean that Morgana would be Joker's shadow, which isn't even close to true

@Rptor_

4 жыл бұрын

Morgana is similar to Teddie in the regard they are both metaverse/shadow beings that guide, assist and help both Joker and Yu. They are not their shadows by any means. They share a goal and a bond and friendship but they are not shadows of said protagonists

@Rptor_

4 жыл бұрын

@Devon Nadeau should've researched then lmao

@peytongolding7544

4 жыл бұрын

@Devon Nadeau well he acted like he knew every little detail of the game inside and out when he obviously hasn't even picked it up or watched any videos on it

@ignShnv

4 жыл бұрын

Peyton Golding Akechi’s confidant also maxes out on its own in P5, so by MatPat’s logic, Akechi is also Joker’s shadow

@Rptor_

4 жыл бұрын

@@ignShnv And Sae and Igor lmao

With all this inaccurate info, I'm surprised he didn't think Mitsuo was the real killer

@memperkasaya2078

4 жыл бұрын

The people who liked this theory are unironically retarded

@Wildcat12

4 жыл бұрын

Tsmite Or they haven't played the games. If you play it you understand how wrong it is, but if you haven't all the information seems to line up. (I have, and yes this theory is retarded)

@memperkasaya2078

4 жыл бұрын

Wildcat121204 I just recently started getting into persona 4, and now can fully understand the retardation that went into this video. But even before that, when I had little to no info about p4, I still thought this theory was really dumb. One of the points is literally “one tarot card’s attributes are similar to another tarot card’s attributes, thus they must be the same”. If game theory fans actually paid any attention to what he’s actually saying, and not just listening to all the garbage memes and just believing everything he says is right, then this channel would improve. But so far, he continues to do stuff like this, where he acts defensive if he gets something wrong, but gloats before hand as if he solved some “unsolvable mystery”, even though this video is a prime example of not everything needs a theory. Plus, it’s pretty obvious he only made this video to capitalize on P5’s success, which is all Matthew really cares about now.

@DaGalaxyBoy

4 жыл бұрын

@@memperkasaya2078 did you not see the top comment from, oh idk, 2 YEARS AGO?! It was literally a apology comment about how he is sorry for attacking fans with a little joke, bringing up the wrong info, and not digging into the other games. He realized his mistake 2 years ago, so there is absolutely no point in calling this theory retarded right now when he realized that 2 years ago.

@memperkasaya2078

4 жыл бұрын

Galaxy boy just because he admitted the video was stupid, doesnt mean it’s no longer stupid. I still can criticize this video, whether or not he admitted it.

At first i thought it was a good theory until i played the game.

@hopechr

5 жыл бұрын

lol

@blackchase6732

4 жыл бұрын

@SHARMIN BINTI KHAIRUL AMIN - its normal you just summon a persona by manipulating people into liking you new ones

@evilnerd064

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah me too

@muhammedaljerari391

4 жыл бұрын

SHARMIN BINTI KHAIRUL AMIN - use an emulator

@ChokingOnRazors

4 жыл бұрын

lmao same

Persona Q actually explains the lack of shadow thing. The main protagonist from each game is referred to as the wild card. They don't confront their shadow in the same way their allies do but instead use personas to find their place. Wild cards are able to use many personas and people around them can only use the one that their shadows turned into. However in persona Q, the 3 and 4 cast meet and 2 wild cards are in the same place at the same time so it changes how the meta world works and everyone is able to use 2 persona (one for each wild card). Your theory does explain a lot of things and Teddy is 100% connected to Yu the same way Moana in P5 is a spirit guide for Joker, but I feel you either excluded evidence that didn't fit the theory or there were parts of the franchise you didn't know about. Persona is a ridiculously layered franchise after all and every spin off game is cannon.

@meimeihughes

6 жыл бұрын

Dante De'Von the non conforming thing could also be used to explain the P5 cast. All of them gain their persona by rejecting the role society had placed on them and being reborn, with the exception of Futaba who embraced her past and transformed her shadow the same way the P4 cast did. We never see shadow versions of any of the other P5 characters but their personas call out to them just like Yu.

@bruhhurb6059

6 жыл бұрын

meimeihughes Great comment bruh, I hope MatPat sees it because it is really good.

@patrickdees5256

6 жыл бұрын

meimeihughes isn't that a spinoff though?

@tacomeme429

6 жыл бұрын

So saving the world through dance is canon?

@romana3564

6 жыл бұрын

they are all spinoffs of shin megami tensai so who cares

"Yu doesn't have a Shadow" Yeah, this means that you forget the True Ending.

@ChokingOnRazors

4 жыл бұрын

or never played the game lmao

@MaddyDoesStuff

3 жыл бұрын

*cough* anime *cough* loneliness *cough* margaret fight *cough*

@mikeockhurts904

3 жыл бұрын

@@MaddyDoesStuff *cough* persona 4 arena *cough*

@rajaisgreen7663

3 жыл бұрын

Theory: mat never play p4

@davidklassen5791

3 жыл бұрын

@@mikeockhurts904 OKay, but in Arena it's a fake shadow. The anime one was legit.

Omg did he just say “Igor and his assistant Elizabeth” WHAT THE HELL

@anidiot192

4 жыл бұрын

@Gmoney 12 he's kinda smart in the game too, the 3 smart ones are yu, naoto, and yosuke (aka everyone outside the ramen shop when you think about who the killer is) and yosuke is part of the reason why you start investigating the tv world, and part of the reason why you constantly keep an eye on the midnight channel, he draws the connection between them and the murders, he even tests if he can go into the tv on his own too. The game just likes shitting on him

@Alibaba-id1cs

4 жыл бұрын

Jog Swanson to be fair in terms of school Yosuke is lazy and just dumb in class. But when he takes things seriously he’s actually smart. The entire investigation Yosuke was being pretty serious and was being smart at times. I feel like if Yosuke had a desire to be smart in school or have a plan in the future I feel like he wouldn’t be as overlooked as he is.

@ccpower5653

4 жыл бұрын

Yea yosuke is in my opinion the smartest person out of the whole in investigation team

@mikeockhurts904

3 жыл бұрын

@Gmoney 12 yosuke was never dumb, everyone always thought he was because hes always compared to ryuji an junpei, who are dumb.

@thewingedcheetahwolf2615

3 жыл бұрын

ITS YOSUKE OMggggg ma boi

I am thou,Thou art I..... Thou hast uncovered a new theory... It shall become the wings of inaccuracy that breaketh thy chains of rationality. With the birth of the MatPat Persona, I have obtained the winds of a bad theory that shall lead to criticism and backlash.

@Sushi_Lover_707

5 жыл бұрын

10 out of 10!

@maileakui4035

5 жыл бұрын

This was fantastic

@gachalibra9243

5 жыл бұрын

McCaroni Sup I’m so happy!

@ViVi-qj3ey

5 жыл бұрын

Yas

@jayboulware9900

5 жыл бұрын

I am thou, Thou art I, Thou hast turned an idea into a theory Thy theory shall become the wings of insanity, and break the common sense of thy mind Thou hast awakened to the ultimate secret of the fool, granting thee infinite idiocy

Game Theory: Is Ryuji a phantom thief?

@flayncel

6 жыл бұрын

Mastermind6425 I think that's unlikely, he's too dumb to become a Phantom Thief. Dumb theory, try again

@riderwolfseeker5066

6 жыл бұрын

Game theory:Are catherine and persona 5 connected?

@lionel7360

6 жыл бұрын

Actually they are. Catherine was an art test for persona 5.

@-Meric-

6 жыл бұрын

No way, inconceivable. Everyone who has ever been in earshot of Ryuji talking agrees he is not a phantom thief

@polkadi

6 жыл бұрын

Probably not. If he was, Ryuji would tell us.

ive just started watching this and i can already tell that its gonna be a trainwreck because he says at the start "oh if i get things wrong its the storys fault not mine pls dont hate on me"

@abyssboi6377

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah,you guessed right,it was a trainwreck. especially "yep story bad I'm right fanbase bad."

@pedroamaral3599

4 жыл бұрын

He was joking dude come on don’t be so hard

@xronium

3 жыл бұрын

@@pedroamaral3599 ok, but can he actually research or even play the full game?

@risasdesktop

3 жыл бұрын

@@xronium idk man, it's not like he had 2 channels that study many kinds of media with varying length of story, lore, or characters therefore making some of the team's facts definitely wrong as a result. idk

@ventura535

3 жыл бұрын

@@risasdesktop i mean, if you are going to talk about certain piece of media you need to actually know the main details of said piece of media

I waited to watch this theory until after I had finished the game... FOR THIS?!

@kefrika9950

3 жыл бұрын

Same, when I first saw this I was planning to watch this after I am done with 4 golden. I play the 3 persona games (I know 1 and 2 exists, but I couldn't find it to play so I skipped it) And when I was done with 5 royal I went to watch this video only to discover it's wrong

@Sportnugget

3 жыл бұрын

@@kefrika9950 If you can manage to get your hands on a PSVita, (and/or a classic PSP, but I don't know for sure on that one) P1, P2IS, and P2EP are available on the PSN Store. However, I wouldn't begrudge anyone for simply emulating the PSOne games given how old they are and how Sony hasn't done their due diligence in preserving them for future interested parties

@mohamedyasen2012

3 жыл бұрын

Yo guys it’s called game theory not game fax lmaaoooooo

@bshae1927

3 жыл бұрын

@@mohamedyasen2012 But every theory has to have somwthing to base off of. He was given a gradient puzzle to solve with red and yellow colours. He just found a red puzzle piece and a yellow puzzle piece with no pattern, glued them and called it a day without looking at context or doing minimum research.

@ofilosofoouumfumante5655

2 жыл бұрын

@@kefrika9950 emulator and persona 2 is the best persona

7:42 *I think you wanted to say *Margaret*

@Dae-Dae97

6 жыл бұрын

ari nath you noticed also

@obscurethings5047

6 жыл бұрын

If it was Elizabeth the game would be a lot harder

@loquendo47votaymas

6 жыл бұрын

I almost closed the video after that, it was hard to keep watching

@WhosManIsThis

6 жыл бұрын

*megidolaon Oh boy

@wildcard7449

6 жыл бұрын

I legit cringed at that.

Persona 4 face your fears Persona 5 *BLEED YOUR FACE OFF UNTIL IT ARRIVES*

@obludankeschun

5 жыл бұрын

Persona 3 kurt cobain

@placeholdernameless8569

5 жыл бұрын

To be fair,At The Same time they’re taking off the masks,It’s Taking off the mask so they can realize their Fears,Which is the same because Joker Is Questioned If His Decision was A Mistake,A Part That He hasn’t shown off,A Part Of Himself He doesn’t want to face.

@inktouhou

5 жыл бұрын

What about 1 & 2

@theinimitablejora522

5 жыл бұрын

@@inktouhou What ABOUT 1 and 2?

@inktouhou

5 жыл бұрын

Coolest Idiot That ever memed yes because I actually don't know

Guess I'm a defensive hater for saying this. This entire video shows that mat hasn't even touched a persona game

@minttshake

3 жыл бұрын

yes. he got some details wrong. yes, you can get mad at him for doing so. but can you justify getting publicly angry over a theory on a video game? I don't think so.

@Ragnarok30SP

3 жыл бұрын

@@minttshake and you're making a lot of assumptions, who says I'm mad, I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed

@bubblewaffle1558

3 жыл бұрын

@@minttshake he's right you know

@minttshake

3 жыл бұрын

@@bubblewaffle1558 not saying that he's wrong, just saying that what he said, while correct, is kinda rude.

@internetual7350

3 жыл бұрын

@@minttshake How is he rude? If anything MatPat was rude to the Persona fandom

Remember when matpat made theories on games he was interested in and not games that were popular at the moment?

@Unholy_milk

4 жыл бұрын

Oh I member

@saynomore6958

4 жыл бұрын

Yup. I unsubscribed cause he became a little too attached to fnaf and made theories that will get him clicks rather than make theories he's actually interested in making.

@zildjian2381

4 жыл бұрын

@@saynomore6958 i actually like fnaf theories but you dont need to hate on matpat because thats just a theory a game theory

@saynomore6958

3 жыл бұрын

@@zildjian2381 i don't hate him. I just don't enjoy his content anymore.

@alfonsosorialara3288

3 жыл бұрын

Bruh, persona 4 hasn't been popular in more than 10 years.

Have you not played the game? It literally is said in the game that Izanami awakened Yu's persona by shaking his hand, thus he never had to face his shadow.

@tobycoolboy2908

5 жыл бұрын

TheKewlPerson then explain why adachi and Namatame both have shadows and they both got the power from Izanami

@Likaboss480

5 жыл бұрын

@@tobycoolboy2908 Well, as matpat explained, shadows are raw and untamed, while personas are tamed. With adachi and namatame both clearly not being mentally 100%, especially with adachi feeding into his homicidal tendencies, we can assume that Yu, being a blank slate, dosnt have anything to hide AND no conflicts going on, he was able to get his persona. What need is there for a shadow if the person in question is already in touch with their true selves? While there is no evidence stating he does not have a self conflict, there is no evidence that shows he ever did, other than the fact that he never had to face his shadow

@fffx2

5 жыл бұрын

Have you watched the video? MatPat addresses this exact argument.

@haruhisuzumiya6650

5 жыл бұрын

That sounds like bullshit writing At least with joker you signed the contract terms of services at the beginning of the game. The contract is sealed...

@haruhisuzumiya6650

5 жыл бұрын

@Ren Amamiya so what you're saying is that atlus screwed up and attempted to fix retroactively.

how tf is ameno sagiri Adachis shadow XD ameno is a smller part of a fragmented god who is controlling the fog and making sure the plan to envelop the human world in fog works thats why when you initially beat adachi ameno takes over to ensure the plan woks.

5:22 your tryna tell me Shrek is Yu’s shadow

@virtuallynervous

3 жыл бұрын

I just died. Thank you

@musicalmoongirl5055

3 жыл бұрын

Teddie is Shrek confirmed. BUT HEY!

@crazyworldoutthere4379

2 жыл бұрын

@@virtuallynervous RIP

With more people getting into Persona now, this video is gonna get a lot more hate.

@Naotosbiggestfan24

3 жыл бұрын

And SMT. Don't forget Shin Megami Tensi.

@davidgn40

3 жыл бұрын

@@Naotosbiggestfan24 with SMT V and Nocturne remaster coming out soon, you're right.

@ovina6331

3 жыл бұрын

as it should

@akhtarjaviero3627

3 жыл бұрын

this theory is not even so bad it's good, it's just downright bad, kinda dissapointed on matpat rushing out a half baked theory which is even debunk in the game itself, he should've took a more scientific side on this, just like how his videos used to be. Like idk maybe explain the inspiration of the Shadows which are based on Jungian Mythology, or the science of the metaverse irl.

@davidgn40

3 жыл бұрын

@@akhtarjaviero3627 yeah those would be better options. I'm quite sure Wisecrack talked about Jungian psychology and how it's utilized in Persona.

I hate to be that guy, but there are a lot of errors with this. Firstly: "his assistant Elizabeth"... Wrong game Mat, that was Persona 3. In Persona 4 the assistant is Margaret. Also, the "shadows" of Namatame and Adachi you talked about are actually the fragments of Izanami that she placed inside of them - Yu's fragment is Marie - another person who may enter the velvet room. They are not shadows, especially as we see Namatame's shadow AFTER we beat Kunino-sagiri. We never see or fight Adachi's shadow as he already has a persona when we fight him. Both Adachi and Yu awakened to their persona to survive in the TV world as a result of Izanami. (Namatame would have as well, but he never had the chance to do so). As a Persona can never return to being a shadow, it is impossible for their shadows to exist as long as the user as a Persona. (The only exception is with the robot Labrys - as a copy of her shadow was saved to her hard-drive.) Because of this, Teddie could not remain if he was Yu's shadow as he would become Izanagi. Finally - we DO see Yus shadow. In the final episode of the Anime, we see that Yu DOES have a shadow as he is hounded by it during the Margaret fight until he accepts it. The reason why Yu does not normally face his shadow is that Izanami awakened it for him. As soon as Izanami wanted him dead in the anime, he lost it and had to face his own shadow properly to get it back. I'm sorry Mat, but you really didn't do the research on this one. Granted, for a series so full of lore, it is easy to miss facts, and the hypothesis is rather interesting - but it is rather full of holes and you made several mistakes - both relevant and non relevant.

@dairyubachanger

6 жыл бұрын

like he said at the beginning, 10 years

@JohnSmith-iz2le

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah I definitely was thinking about all of this as I watched, nice coverage man.

@wholesomescientist6674

6 жыл бұрын

I hope you don't get the impression that i'm mad or anything - I thought it was a pretty decent episode. Just giving some feedback from a longtime fan of both persona and GT on some things that don't quite add up.

@xaion64

6 жыл бұрын

yeah same. there were a few things that annoyed me about this episode. mostly the comments on how the velvet room worked, and the fact that persona's are shadows. but other than that its a fine theory... a theory i dont partake in.. but its decent.

@lordxan5778

4 жыл бұрын

I don't know if this is correct, but I'm pretty sure personas can revert to shadows under special circumstances, such as when the antagonist of p4a wants to shadowify the personas to make them killing machines, or if you lose your pride as a living being

And just for you persona and anime fans: Persona 5 the animation was released yesterday on crunchyroll (^o^)

@mr.t107

6 жыл бұрын

Playlist DJ it was?!!

@sariarosegold

6 жыл бұрын

hey thanks! i know someone who is gonna be very happy to find that out

@TheSithai

6 жыл бұрын

And hulu

@arielmartinez94

6 жыл бұрын

Really?,thanks for the head Up

@MoaiedE

6 жыл бұрын

Playlist DJ Ik it was lit

"A fanbase that I have no doubt is sure to hate whatever I say in this episode _regardless of how much research I do_ " And _there's_ the irony. HOO BOY

@bryanttan9589

3 жыл бұрын

Then why even bother to make this.....im pretty sure he didnt even touch the game based on what hes saying -_-

@Nothingnew917

3 жыл бұрын

Already at 12K dislikes

@robertogaleano3152

3 жыл бұрын

Fanbase is literally: *You hooed your last boy*

I know this has been up for 2 years now........but I just gotta say, in addition to the other inaccuracies, having to gain the traits of the Star to progress to the World means nothing. The whole POINT of the tarot is that you start as the Fool, traverse through all the major arcana, and come out the other end as the World. Likewise, the protag has to meet and learn from all of the people embodying the arcana in the game and that's why being close to them makes him stronger. Yes, you can beat the game with just Teddie, but that doesn't make him more essential. The game heavily penalizes you for this and while you make it to the end, you are also the weakest version of yourself. Because you only have the one arcana. And links that are required to go up are nothing NEW. They are in 3 and 5 too and in both games, there are more than one of them. In addition to the other comments, just..........please play the game you are making a theory about. It's kinda the bare minimum effort. A lesson that, looking at your videos from this point, you learned.

1) When Izanami gifted Yu and Adachi their Personas, they both received a variant of Izanagi. Namatame did not get a Persona; only the ability to travel into the TV world (which makes him different from Adachi and Yu and thus should not be grouped with them). 2) Marie is also able to enter the Velvet Room 3) Igor's assistant in Persona 4 is called Margaret, not Elizabeth (just a minor thing) 4) When you start the path to complete the true ending you get the new social link: Judgement (The Seekers of Truth). This social link, along with Teddie's, is also story based and impossible not to max out (assuming you continue to follow the path to the true ending). 5) Going by the logic of Yu's shadow becoming a separate entity, the same should have happened to Adachi's shadow, which it clearly didn't. 6) The shadows turn into the Personas, meaning that Izanagi is Yu's shadow. You can't have a Persona and a shadow at the same time. Yu's shadow turned into his Persona because it got forced that way by Izanami. The only way Yu is different from the other characters is because he never actually had to confront his shadow; it just sort of happened on its own. Please correct me on anything I got wrong.

@TheRareOn

6 жыл бұрын

Cameron Owen James nah fam, couldn't of said it better myself.

@D.Meanie

6 жыл бұрын

Just an addition I think in the late part or at the end of the game Teddie said that he exist for a long time in the TV realm

@Zero121090X

6 жыл бұрын

Continuing off of this, even though Izanami basically robbed Yu of facing his shadow, in a certain part of the anime, the aspects of his shadow become apparent: his need for socialization. Deep down, Yu believes he's nothing without friends, and so would try to do anything he can to keep some. That part of Yu's psyche almost reverts Izanagi back into a shadow, but then Margaret beats the crap out of him to snap out of it.

@joethorpe109

6 жыл бұрын

This is a mad theory, and I haven't really thought it through, but wouldn't it make more sense for Teddie to be Adachi's shadow? After all, one might think that it is Adachi who would be suppressing kind and gentle thoughts, and not P4s protagonist.

@QCCaster

6 жыл бұрын

Joe Thorpe. That makes a lot of sense.

SPOILERS Although you watched the video so... If you go off the Anime. Yu basically does have a shadow and faces it at the very end. (Not sure about Golden). During the anime it's hinted that Yu does has his own problems. Basically he doesn't want to be alone. It showed that problem in the anime during the fight with Shadow Mitsuo. Yu got trapped in a nightmare and couldn't summon his Persona cause he had no bonds. Till his friends snapped him out of it. Later at the end of the anime the same problem flares up again but this time he's trapped in the TV world repeating the same scene with all his friends over and over again till Margaret shows up to snap him out of his trance. Yu faces his shadow who basically says that he didn't care what it took he just didn't want to be alone anymore. But you could write off the anime as "We had to give the blank slate character some personality and conflict." Teddie essentially was in the Velvet room cause Yu subconsciously called out to him when he went missing. After Teddie had his crisis and dealt with it, he realized that he doesn't belong there. Then Igor pops up and says "Shadows...have no place here." Teddie also states that he's been in the TV World for a long time. Even to the point that he remembers what it truly looks like. Persona and Shadow are 2 sides of the same coin as pretty much established in the game. So Teddie can't be Yu's Shadow. Cause he got Izanagi. To further this if you wanna consider Persona 4 Arena cannon. Hi-No Kagutsuchi was basically trying to make everyone's Persona's back into shadows again for his own purposes. The shape of the Velvet Room is a representation of the person's heart. Minato's was an Elevator which can be considered his journey through Tarturus with SEES or his journey to find the answer to life. Ren/Akira's is a prison to represent that his life is basically a prison thanks to the rules of society. Yu's is a car driving through the fog to represent that he's journeying but doesn't know the destination.

@SirPhones

6 жыл бұрын

Do not forget that Marie also entered the velvet room, which was neither an assistant of the nose, nor "Yu's shadow"

@gamma_draconis9905

6 жыл бұрын

Now this comment, Brad_Ry, is a very good one because for 1, you don't hate on matpat, and 2, you present what you know as fact in a calmly and orderly fashion. Good job. :)

@mikeh1617

6 жыл бұрын

I'd further like to add that, P3 did sign a contract for the velvet room through Pharos. Additionally its explained through 'the answer', shadows are projected shadows not inverted of people's facet (why their shadows transforms into their persona in p4's case). Along that shadows could rewind/stop time, manipulate space(tartarus and basement) and project their subconcious (Ouroborus(the manifested persona of all people's shadow wanting the world to end (even the characters admit they might've added into it)) and their shadows culminating into a Minato and trapping themselves in the time loop for not being able to move forward after he became the great seal (which I'm understanding is not Messiah being final judgement and all).

@manticorephantom2377

6 жыл бұрын

Unknown550 makoto is his name in the manga, minato is his actual name, and he is, if I may be so bold, the Best Boy

@Philious

6 жыл бұрын

The dude from P3 has several names thanks to P3 having so many adaptations. Makoto Yuki and Minato Arisato are both correct, as is Sakuya Shiomi (from the musical).

Something tells me this guy never played P4 at all... That or he never even played beyond December 3rd. Though I'm pretty sure it's the former.

@kanenums8888

4 жыл бұрын

YoungMasterEraqueez he just skimmed through a wiki article

@nervousblanket3020

4 жыл бұрын

Did you not see his comment that he pinned He literally said that he messed the theory up

@kanenums8888

4 жыл бұрын

Sleazball Romin He started back peddling because people were calling him out on his BS. Like he always does may I remind you. Dudes a clown.

@DaGalaxyBoy

4 жыл бұрын

@@kanenums8888 so he's a clown because he got a fictional story incorrect? How stupid are you?

@kanenums8888

4 жыл бұрын

Galaxy boy yes he is a clown 100%. He made a theory and didn’t even know the story. Accuracy counts.

Instead of doing "so much research", why didn't you just play the game...?

@EdxSarxNatxChoc

4 жыл бұрын

Cuz' playing games are hard. Look at DSP, he couldn't beat the final boss of P3 on EASY MODE. His argument? Boss was "cheating" & "too hard".

@allergyjelly

4 жыл бұрын

EdxSarxNatxChoc Still doesn’t really save this theory from being just, REALLY bad.

@borringguy1006

4 жыл бұрын

Its already an 80 hour games and hes got to put these things out every week or so

@justgrey3114

4 жыл бұрын

jesus christ what will happen if he tries to play nocturne, the guy would break his ps2

@nowtmrb3337

4 жыл бұрын

@@EdxSarxNatxChoc Final boss too hard? Either he has a bad persona or hes too low level cause the only times I died in easy mode is because I didnt grind to much.

1) We did see Yu's shadow, it was in the True Ending OVA 2) That's Margaret, not her little sister Elizabeth. 3) Marie is also in the Velvet room, in the Golden version.

@Frankiedfkun

6 жыл бұрын

For the Ova, it was for the anime's cannon and not for the game. I believe Matpat was only talking about game cannon. Even then if the theory was true, Teddy is still separate from Yu and the Shadow from the ova was what happen to Izanagi when Yu went mad during the episode.

7:43 That's Margaret not Elizabeth

@Fae2705

6 жыл бұрын

ikr!

@mikeits13

6 жыл бұрын

Proof Matpat doesn't actually play some of the games he discusses or just reads a wiki.

@RobertMcBride-is-cool

6 жыл бұрын

Do you have the time to cover all of the material fatefully in a week or two while also having a social life? He just mixes up faces from time to time, and misses a detail or two.

Lmao if he's looking for Yu's Shadow, I'm surprised he didn't even look toward Magatsu-Izanagi

@vandairgaming481

2 жыл бұрын

Actually haha

@shelbybayer200

2 жыл бұрын

The anime shows Yu's Shadow

@heyweykrutcorbin5005

Жыл бұрын

he probably didn't get to that part of the story lmao

For once, and probably only time, I seriously doubt MatPat on this. He obviously didn't play the actual game, probably just read a very short summary :/

@rajaisgreen7663

3 жыл бұрын

Agree the most obvious is the name mistake

@LilKardboard

3 жыл бұрын

@@rajaisgreen7663 I mean I can see him making a tongue slip by accident, him calling Margaret "Elizabeth" was the least problematic thing about this theory video, although I gotta respect him for apologizing in his pinned comment [though one could argue he only did this as a backpedal to avoid more backlash it's still better than not apologizing or correcting himself at all]

@katiekatdragon

3 жыл бұрын

I think he did play the og p4, not p4g though, and also played p3 and didn't refresh before this theory, since I can't see any other reason to call Margret Elizabeth since if he read an article it would say Margret. So after 10 years he thought of the attendents name thinking he would remember and mixed up the attendents names. PS if you haven't played p3 the attendent in that game is named Elizabeth.

@ofilosofoouumfumante5655

2 жыл бұрын

@@katiekatdragon you wouldn't forget the major plot point of a game if you think and make a research like he said

7:43 that is not Elizabeth. In Persona 4 the assistant of Igor is Margaret.

@daisysmartheart1947

6 жыл бұрын

Random Guy THANK YOU!

@nworder4life

6 жыл бұрын

To be fair, they are sisters.

@thebestasianfood8313

6 жыл бұрын

Aren’t they technically sisters?

@sdft1138

6 жыл бұрын

*assistant. Sorry I love grammar.

@gegeji6442

6 жыл бұрын

Santi Diaz no problem thanks for pointing out

GAME THEORY: IS JOKER A PLANE

@Natsu2G

5 жыл бұрын

Or is he a bird? And that is the reason morgana likes him so much :p

@inktouhou

5 жыл бұрын

Is he plague doctor?

@ZBreezee-nb2rl

5 жыл бұрын

Game Theory: Is Morgana a dog

@protector9122

5 жыл бұрын

You fools Joker is a chair

@zea5946

5 жыл бұрын

Bill Lamprakos oh my god is that a reference to what i think it is

He's practically casting rakukaja (uping his defense) at the start of the video. 😂

@Naotosbiggestfan24

3 жыл бұрын

But it failed

@makoto-kun5129

3 жыл бұрын

@@Naotosbiggestfan24 miserably 🤣

@agent3689

3 жыл бұрын

Nah man, he tried the Heat Riser, but it still failed

"No matter how much reaserch I do" Yeah... What research?

“Why the fork did you chose this game to do a theory on?” I know why Because it is by far easier then Part 3 of Final FNaF theory

@cathl4953

6 жыл бұрын

jollow250 Wait there's gonna be a part 3 on that theory?

@shebehere2452

6 жыл бұрын

jollow250 DAMN ROASTED

@mrakex2475

6 жыл бұрын

Lol

@nope4-0-4

6 жыл бұрын

More likely he's just doing it because Persona 5 is getting an anime adaptation this spring and raking in the opportunity

@rogueslasher7899

6 жыл бұрын

TheToastLegacy While I agree that FNaF is dead, insulting it and calling it's theories dumb is overdoing it specially since FNaF6 IS a good game. At least better than 4 and SL and maybe ppl want lore on the last game that was decent.

As a Personna fan. I wanted to say that. I do not hate you for this. It's just a theory afterall.

@mes0gots0its

6 жыл бұрын

A GAME THEORY!

Me: "click the video" -14:30-- minutes later- Me: "It's time for all-out attack!"

@joeyshadeslayer9792

4 жыл бұрын

Time for some brutality!!

@o-o4436

4 жыл бұрын

Joey Shadeslayer I’ve been waiting for this

@veo1053

4 жыл бұрын

*Get back here you son of a*

@Absane8

4 жыл бұрын

Bear pile on the enemy !

@war_muffin363

3 жыл бұрын

Ah Ha! Is this our chance!?

I think the entire “where is Yu’s shadow?” segment can be boiled down to (in my mind) Yu has already accepted his shadow, the most hated part of himself, before ever meeting it not in the TV world but subconsciously.

@davidklassen5791

3 жыл бұрын

The reason Yu doesn't have a shadow (IN THE GAME) is because of the fact that he's a silent protagonist, a self insert of the player. The game doesn't know about the player's insecurities, so it can't accurately portray the game version of Narukami. Now, with the anime, Yu has an actual character. Therefore, he can have a shadow, which he does face (sure, he already has his persona at the point, but facing his shadow unlocked his full potential).

@kirinbobarcana

Жыл бұрын

Well, in the anime, it shows that he does have a shadow self, but I think that was created specifically for the Margaret fight so that Yu could confront his fears of leaving inaba.

Theory BUSTED! and here's why: 1) Plot in game! 2) In the anime, that I have watched, Yu gains his persona by shaking the Finale Boss' hand. 3) Still in the anime, Yu meets his Shadow while fighting Margaret

@leresidentdevelours1859

5 жыл бұрын

While the anime is very accurate to the game, I despise that you solely use that as your base of evidence and act hoity toity with it, if you've read the pinned comment, MatPat has already admitted that the theory is disproven. Learn your place.

@DemonzDay

4 жыл бұрын

@@leresidentdevelours1859 to be fair what other place can he say this lmao it's the comment section, besides look at his first point, in game, nothing to do with the anime. Still a lot of people consider the anime canon, there are many other things in Persona that disproves the theory, for the most part you only need to have played persona 4, you can't use all the messy lore between games as an excuse. MatPat, in the pinned comment doesn't point out the main flaws with it, he just talks about small things without telling me ways that it has been disproven, which is exactly what this comment did. Don't get annoyed at the guy for commenting this. They're good points, if you want more information on persona then feel free to ask because there's so many ways not mentioned by MatPat to disprove the theory :D

@d2g2

4 жыл бұрын

The anime is a different canon than the games but your point still stands

@ChokingOnRazors

4 жыл бұрын

#3 really doesnt make much sense and is kinda contradictory to #2 but whatever

@deathrod123

3 жыл бұрын

I will disprove this right now 2: Yes, Izanami gives Yu a persona, but this does not mean that he doesn't have a shadow 3: The anime is not canon

Matpat I would hate to correct you but you showed a picture of Margaret and said it was Elizabeth, Elizabeth is the Velvet Room attendant from Persona 3 Margaret was in charge of the room in Persona 4

@zerwardzelaiine7622

6 жыл бұрын

Champion Kasey lol, later on he did just refer to them as Igor's assistant so I guess he sorta corrected himself? :/

@minimonkeymasher8888

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for not being a total dock about like the guy above you

@LordBloodySoul

6 жыл бұрын

I mix them all up, too. Mostly because I play too much of the Shin Megami Tensei Games. And it got worse since I played Persona Q XD

@spiritninja5757

4 жыл бұрын

LordBloodySoul they seriously aren’t alike

well guys, this was not a reach out to the truth moment.

bold of you to assume that I stopped playing persona 4

@renren2946

4 жыл бұрын

Bold of you to assume I've plaued persona 4 I really want to

@PocketPhox

4 жыл бұрын

@@renren2946 Just emulate it my guy! Or if you have a PS Vita, buy Persona 4 Golden. It's literally just P4 but better graphics and more content. Some stuff was even improved!

@ucielsan

4 жыл бұрын

And If you have a PS3 you can play P3 FES and original P4.

@IceBlueLugia

4 жыл бұрын

It’s on pc now

Fuse Personae: Stupei: Ace Defective + Shuji Ikutsuki = MatPat Skills: Disproven Theory: Deals unsubscribe to all foes Fake Evidence: Deals facepalm to all foes Misplacing names: Inflicts rage on all foes Weaknesses: Common sense

@diazr31

5 жыл бұрын

Stupei & E-Coochie

@Thatphantomsaboteur

4 жыл бұрын

Needs a little bit of Goro Akechi

@mtemboar4726

4 жыл бұрын

This was exactly what he meant by over defensive

@TxmBxrrxtt

4 жыл бұрын

Salt

@imaginternet

4 жыл бұрын

Oh sh#£ that one outta burn

No offense but there's loads of misinformation in this. Perhaps the biggest one being Ameno-sagiri is not Adachi's shadow. Adachi didn't have a shadow, and it's confirmed in game that Adachi and Yu are counterparts (both awakened to Izanagi). I think it's an interesting idea, Teddie being Yu's shadow, especially with his affection towards Nanako. However, I'm not sure the evidence in game really supports it.

@pisic9022

6 жыл бұрын

AwkwardThursdays stfu

@EasilyBoredGamer

6 жыл бұрын

(Politely corrects misinformation) Someone else: "STFU" thanks internet

@spagboii4546

6 жыл бұрын

darkhorse0404 There are differences to fans and fanboys. Fans provide constructive criticism. Fanboys give "support" by releasing hate to fans and never acknowledge that everyone makes mistakes

@tamagukimicrowave1333

6 жыл бұрын

Ima politely reject what you say with a simple "ITS JUST A THEORY"

@KayokoSudou

6 жыл бұрын

I am Paradoxical But even if it's a theory, it should be a *correct* theory. And it should have enough evidence to back it up from the game

MatPat: "I wonder how many miles a gallon morgana gets?"

the fact he called margaret elizabeth had me laughing. and the anime explains pretty much all of this in a different way, and you should watch it to the end, matpat! im not spoiling though, its a damn good anime and game.

this would make sense if not for a few problems, I would like to point out a few of these holes in this theory: 1. Yu's Velvet Room Attendant is Margaret, not Elizabeth. Elizabeth was Makoto's attendant in Persona 3. 2. Nametame and Adachi don't merge with their shadows, but are actually possessed by two major fragments of Izanami; Ame-no-Sagiri and Kuni-no-Sagiri. 3. Yu DOES actually face his shadow during a secret/optional boss fight with Margaret. a non-violent shadow that appears on a bunch of TV screens. which Yu does immediately acknowledge as part of himself. 4. Persona 4 Golden, Persona 4 the animation and Persona 4 the Golden Animation fix some major lore holes. 5. this is not the first time this sort of theory has appeared, first one i have seen saying that Teddie is the disconnected shadow of Yu's childhood innocence, something he's lost connection to for quite some time thus allowing his shadow to gain a sense of self but also explaining Teddies lack of memories, and lore wise Teddie is not the first time a shadow has become self aware and sentient. a few other cases under different circumstances there have been "Shadow selves" appearing. whether caused by rumor becoming reality such as in persona 2 with the shadow selves of the party, or a powerful fragment of a greater entity becoming self aware, Such as Ryoji Mochizuki in Persona 3, a shadow representing "Death Arcana" becoming self aware. a decently crafted theory when taking the tarot into account, but there are still some holes even in your research for the game

@ekdeans6618

6 жыл бұрын

1. yay script error 2. You fight with Adachi in his Shadow form before Ameno-Sagiri shows up. Adachi's eyes turn golden right in front of you. His sprite blacks out the moment he gets possessed. Pay attention 3. Yu's shadow only makes an appearance in the anime, which has a separate canon from the games. It never shows up anywhere else. 4. Golden yes, the two animes not so much, since they're just adaptations of the games (and not very good ones in GA's case). But yeah, I question how Matpat managed to completely ignore Golden and its plot-hole patch job.

@livvy28sim

6 жыл бұрын

omg thank you it kinda bugged me hearing her name as elizabeth i was so confused as to why he was calling her that. I realise he can be busy but I thought her name would have at least been correct :P There are a lot of things he has missed kinda like he didnt really have all the information but i was really stoked to see a persona video on his channel either way :P It's always cool to see peoples interest in persona and their take on things :P

@TakiwaraTaki

6 жыл бұрын

Halleluhja

@NegitoroIsBestShip

6 жыл бұрын

Let's not forget the fact that he got the people who appear in the Velvet Room wrong too. Marie also makes an appearance. Which throws a big ol wrench in his theory.

@Melalink

6 жыл бұрын

I was just writing this until i saw your comment~

I enjoy game theory but, MatPat do a video over games you have some genuine interest in. The Persona series isn't even that obscure for this theory to be so flawed like some say. Especially when Petscop is obscure af and you have really good videos on it. It's also weird to forget an entire expansion of this game but then you tear apart a kid's activity book for fnaf. When you have passion for a series it shows the same can be said when you don't.

@memperkasaya2078

4 жыл бұрын

Avenz has The people who liked this theory are unironically retarded

@ChokingOnRazors

4 жыл бұрын

@@memperkasaya2078 or have just never played the game

@RXQ1jj

4 жыл бұрын

same goes with the bendy and the ink machine theories

8:08 hold up, we’ve seen another person in the velvet room in p4, being Margaret’s(igors assistant) assistant. And yes, the game did pull the “the assistant has an assistant” game trope

@ChokingOnRazors

4 жыл бұрын

in p4g

@anidiot192

4 жыл бұрын

And yaldaboath forced his way into the velvet room in 5, showing it is possible to do so, and igor constantly summons the protagonist into the velvet room (from 3 on) and igor states the fact tha yu summoned teddie into the velvet room

@davidklassen5791

3 жыл бұрын

@@ChokingOnRazors and Mat talked about P4G's true ending, so it's valid to mention Marie.

With the release of Persona 4 Golden for the PC I've decided to revisit this theory, and I found out a bit of controversy while searching for it... Re-watched the video, watched those response/reaction videos as well, and since I have played the game to a certain point I've came to my own conclusion. From your pinned comment i believe you did the same at some point, and probably already fixed that (since this video is 2 years old) but I'll try to add something constructive because i love your content and follow all of your 4 channels (soon to be 5). The point of the theories is to generate discussion, and not to be the "truth" that shall never be questioned. Poking holes on your theories, if any, is engaging as much as expanding on it, so you should not be afraid of that. It's by poking holes that we adjust and try to find a better, more consistent theory about a topic. That being said, I believe you should tone down your internet "Persona" a little bit, as he is a lot confident on it's research and claims it's theories to be truth (which they can be not) and sound very condescending. Best case scenario it comes as misinformation (which is something I believe you're proudly against of) and worst case it's just offensive to those who spend hundreds if not thousands of hours in a given franchise. I would like to see in the future a more humble Matpat that asks if there's something wrong with his theories, or if he's missing some detail, idk; keeping the community engaged while also giving an opportunity for a reply to said theory which keeps new content going. It's just a shame that the only franchise you're willing to make a second or third video trying to create a better theory is FNAF, instead of those lore-packet games that more people like and are invested into like Zelda or Persona. I hope this gets to your eyes and you all stay safe, Matthew & theorist team.

@JWuKong95

3 жыл бұрын

It's a shame how this turned out. I would definitely watch more game theory episodes on persona if all the required and relevant research was done. I'm fairly new to persona, but did a lot of my own research. With that knowledge in hand, watching this theory didn't make a whole lot of sense. And complaining about the fandom potentially having issues with the video cause they're overly defensive feels kinda weird. Like, people are gonna react in negative ways if you get something wrong about something they like.

You were right, the fans do not appear fond of this theory. Less in the *"ARGH, TEAR THIS NON-BELIEVER TO SHREDS!!!"* sense, but more in the *"I have legitimate, evidence-supported disagreements with this theory."* sense. I'd like to think I'm the same. This is just a theory, after all. However, even though there are other people that have been clearing up these points, I need to get it out too. *- Ameno-Sagiri is not Adachi's shadow.* It is the part of Izanami that she bestowed upon him to give him the ability to enter the other world without facing a shadow. It did draw some of its power from Adachi, much like the shadows, so I'm not surprised by this misconception. *- You used the wrong attendant name.* You were correct that someone by that name is a Velvet Room attendant, though. This one's name is Margaret. *- I had a gut feeling this point was wrong.* As I thought, I brought up a point I, myself, didn't have enough info on. But, that's ok. Other members of the community corrected me, and now I know. ^^ Thank you for shining some light on Persona. Not that 4 needed any more limelight. :P

@psirockin2251

6 жыл бұрын

I thought after P5 turned 1 year old we were gonna let P4 die (It did last Wednesday) but Matty brought it back and gave me something to analyze. And honestly, it could be plausible pending P4 Anime isn't canon

@pokelogikx

6 жыл бұрын

P3 Aigis had a shadow and everyone thought she was just another anti shadow unit like Aigis (FES)

@emperorfrost3183

6 жыл бұрын

Ameno isn't actually Adachi's shadow, he's more so like, the king of shadows. Adachi's actual shadow/persona is Magatsu-Izanagi. But what calls more attention to it is, Adachi didn't have to admit to any of his faults to tame his shadow, he was still extremely bitter and hateful, and still got Magatsu-izanagi. Which again paints the idea that if Adachi didn't have to face his shadow to get a persona, then why should Yu, I mean hell he also has an Izanagi.

@pokelogikx

6 жыл бұрын

He already stated that Ameno isnt adachi's shadow so IDK where this is coming from

@GayBearBro2

6 жыл бұрын

I'm not 100% sure since I never played Innocent Sin, but I believe that shadows are used as bosses fairly late in the game and the characters have to fight them despite already having their persona. Like the Velvet room part of this theory, that doesn't make it canon for all games. The only ones canonically connected are Revelations->Innocent Sin->Eternal Punishment (chronologically) and P3->P4 (same universe, roughly a few years apart per P3P).

When I heard that 2008 was a decade ago, I thought “that can’t be possible”, than I thought about it and my life has changed a lot

@RobertMcBride-is-cool

6 жыл бұрын

I'm so two thousand and eight, you're so two thousand and late.

@topogigio2412

6 жыл бұрын

*you're

@ruikirisame1744

6 жыл бұрын

it's a sign that you woke up, got up and got out there

@RobertMcBride-is-cool

6 жыл бұрын

Fixed. I am usually good about avoiding that stuff.

@gladiuslupus

6 жыл бұрын

A decade is 10 years, century is 100, millenium is 1,000. It doesn't surprise me. Though a decade makes us all feel just a tinybit old. *nervous laugh*

Next Theory: Is Stupei Iori Ace Defective a Velvet Room attendant

A friendly suggestion: If you do go at the franchise again, read up on Jungian psychoanalytics. It helps fill a lot of what many see as contradictions.

Igor and his asistant ELIZABETH

@Ghost-np6ww

5 жыл бұрын

What about Justine

@pinkiepie2196

5 жыл бұрын

Mat's mistaken.... that was clearly Theodore sitting next to Igor in Persona 4.

@haruhisuzumiya6650

5 жыл бұрын

@@galaxisoda in persona 3 if I'm not mistaken.

@estheriooo

5 жыл бұрын

Pinkie Pie yup defiently

@xecillmaze4740

5 жыл бұрын

How dare you. THAT'S CLEARLY ADACHI

Wait MatPat is covering PERSONA???? Oh lord, good luck dude, u better hope the people have mercy

@prince_sylex

6 жыл бұрын

Mercy is for the weak...

@PaleVoyager

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah, he's wrong. Video was still fun, though.

@mysty3400

6 жыл бұрын

Brandon Bevill lol i hope im not the target 🎯 ⚔️

@mysty3400

6 жыл бұрын

Mauro Richard Kousek agrreeed

@mysty3400

6 жыл бұрын

PaleVoyager it really was

Broke: teddies Yu’s shadow Woke: Maries Yu’s shadow

@theczman007

4 жыл бұрын

Nanako is Yu’s shadow

@thepillowhead2453

4 жыл бұрын

Mak the fox is Yu’s shadow.

@major_havok7854

3 жыл бұрын

Funky Student is Yu's Shadow

8:01 Marie: Am I a joke to you?

@anidiot192

4 жыл бұрын

Matpat: yes

@Alibaba-id1cs

4 жыл бұрын

Mat was talking about Persona 4 not Golden

@anidiot192

4 жыл бұрын

@@Alibaba-id1cs except he was talking about golden, he talks about the true ending (y'know, that ending that's EXCLUSIVE TO P4G?) In the video.

@adamb4140

4 жыл бұрын

@@anidiot192 facts

@jondoe7036

3 жыл бұрын

@@Alibaba-id1cs Evidently. Though what is the screencap at 12:05 doing in this video then? (to unacquainted, that picture and the looks main cast sport in it aren't in the vanilla version of the game and the girl with glasses in the middle of the picture is Marie, a P4 Golden exclusive character) Also given there's an updated version of the game out there, you'd have to atleast briefly address its existence and touch on how it differs from the original version, to not appear just plain uninformed. As is I'm hard pressed to regard these things as anything but further evidence how shoddily made this theory was.

GAME THEORY: Goro is Joker's shadow!

@javiinkling695

4 жыл бұрын

I mean, he kinda is in a symbolic way

@icantdraw3781

4 жыл бұрын

That means that Akechi promotes suicide

@memperkasaya2078

4 жыл бұрын

The people who liked this theory are unironically retarded

@PapiBlackarot

4 жыл бұрын

They are meant to be the 2 sides of a coin

@frigis2806

4 жыл бұрын

But akechi is the SON of a HUMAN in the REAL world

>does a theory on p4 >calls margaret elizabeth

@wekillall

6 жыл бұрын

This.

@kevin2714

6 жыл бұрын

nickbotful Beat me to it.

@lowhp_comic

6 жыл бұрын

The moment I heard that, his analysis meant nothing haha

@AxelScratchy

6 жыл бұрын

I would chalk this up to an honest mistake, but that’s just me.

@submariNervous

6 жыл бұрын

I often wish that I, too, could forget Marie from Golden.

Game Theory: Yu is actually Jokers grandma so he’s actually a girl and had a husband than became jokers grandma

@akabkb6692

3 жыл бұрын

Sure explains the grey hair.

Regardless of the inaccuracy this is a good time to just say that everyone should go back and play persona 4

@Joker-qm1jy

5 жыл бұрын

The only thing idk of in persona 4 is that extra dungeon and thats because i was too slow with Maries social link and missed my chance (completed it too late now im annoyed. Ive been in that damn strip club dungeon for far too long)

You forgot Marie can enter the velvet room also

@jimmykrabklaw1216

5 жыл бұрын

In the series party members have been able to enter the velvet room. The whole party goes in P2 and P5.

@baronsionis6855

5 жыл бұрын

And Persona 3 FES in The Answer.

@ambercarbuncle1440p

5 жыл бұрын

and SEES in PQ

@Counterbusters

5 жыл бұрын

@@ambercarbuncle1440p and literally everybody in Persona Q2

@c0ppets_

4 жыл бұрын

Jimmy KrabKlaw yeah he didn’t show that p5’s party can enter it.

As much as I LOVE this theory, there’s one things that’s been bugging me throughout the whole thing.... We HAVE seen Yu’s shadow. In Persona 4 the Animation. It was during his fight against Margaret. He didn’t fight his shadow because he accepted his right away. Though this theory seems to fit better so I agree with the theory more.

@minimonkeymasher8888

6 жыл бұрын

Emma Richter contradictory lore as he said. Also ask yourself this, which is canon? The animation of the game or the game which has an animation?

@rezaldievergreen5266

6 жыл бұрын

both?

@ThaTrueRealmWalker

6 жыл бұрын

All the games and the animation are canon, every single one is canon

@minimonkeymasher8888

6 жыл бұрын

Marro Bol yeah I know. That makes my head hurt about how everything is canon in the series

@Spacejazz6

6 жыл бұрын

Emma Richter same, it fits much more and seems to fit with the theme better, the one the animation gave us was kinda..dumb and admittingly made Yu out to be kind of a Mary Sue or..Gary lou? Whatever, ether way, it was kinda boring.

"If teddie is Yu's shadow, then who faced Yu near the ending of the anime with those stacks of TV with Yu's face all over it?" Me, who only watched the animation because i cant afford ps2 :(

@MilkyNep

4 жыл бұрын

I mean, you could emulate the game

@miyukihikawa18

4 жыл бұрын

If you have a PS3 or a PSVita you can get it from the PlayStation Store, I think it's 8 dollars for the PS3 version I don't know how much it cost on Vita. =w=

@kobeyashi6981

4 жыл бұрын

@@miyukihikawa18 a potato phone is all i have there arent any good emulators for ps2 yet either

@rokia360

4 жыл бұрын

@@kobeyashi6981 pcsx2 is good enough if you just want to experience the game. I have a potato laptop and I have extreme lag that would be unplayable by most people but I am still having a good time. But if you're talking about emulators on the phone then you're right there isn't any good ones that can run the original P4 (believe me I tried)

@kobeyashi6981

4 жыл бұрын

@@rokia360 its been 4 months since i posted this, and until now, i cant find any good emulators And i still dont have any laptop or pc or ps4 or anything really

Hey...ya know there’s a fighting game with yu’s shadow

@julianrobertson1869

3 жыл бұрын

A replica shadow

@smithwimm1575

2 жыл бұрын

A shadow's shadow

Namatame and Adachi didn't have shadows their "shadows" were Kunino Sagiri and Ameno Sagiri who were forms of Izanami who gave them the gift to travel into the tv

@sailorpaulino

6 жыл бұрын

V6Whiterewolf we see the talking to their shadows, with the gold glowing eyes and all. They fuse with the gods, but they were still shadows before.

@arrogantwanderer5248

6 жыл бұрын

Yes but they were being fused with a bunch of other shadows and namatame's shadow they see in the hospital is not actually his shadow

@animewatcher102

6 жыл бұрын

That is a good point even if the gods aren't their shadows the fact that they had yellow eyes means they fused with their shadows. Adachi embraced his shadow completely which allowed him to use his persona.

Counter Argument #3: It's explained that a Persona and a Shadow are the same thing. You even watch everyone's shadow become their Persona. Since Yu has a Persona, that would mean it's also his shadow, meaning Teddie couldn't have been his shadow. Side Note: Ameno-sagiri is not Adachi's shadow. Adachi has a Persona, and I doubt he has any part of himself that he rejects that would become his shadow. Interesting thing to note though is that Namatame has a shadow, but he's never shown with a Persona.

@redmaster12251

Жыл бұрын

Maybe namatame was possessed by one of the parts of izanami?

Can't wait for the inevitable and inaccurate persona 5 theory

@abyssboi6377

4 жыл бұрын

We're all waiting, it'll happen eventually with royal happening. be expecting something like "Is ren secretly akechi who is secretly igor?"

@kamz9105

3 жыл бұрын

Is morgana joker shadow?

@JWuKong95

3 жыл бұрын

I think he learned his lesson on this one.

Actually, shadow Yu actually exists. in OVA during the final battle Shadow Yu manifest himself, and Yu accept him thus transform Izanagi into Izanagi no Okami. He had his own fears, but during 1 year in Inaba, he focuses all his attention on the investigation so his real thought of himself never makes an appearance, just before the final battle when he realizes he needs to move on, his shadows manifest. He could also use persona without confronting his shadows because he is one of the three who had been given a gift by the god.

Or Yu simply doesn't have a shadow because he has nothing to reject about himself, being a blank slate and all. Teddy being the only auto maxed Link could just be a way for the game to ensure you're not locked out of winning against the final boss. "Didn't max any links? lol start over again for the true ending." Other people come into the Velvet room in several games without contracts, like Persona Q and 5 (and the Aegis story in 3 I think?) . Not being human to begin with, it's not all that odd for Teddy to show up there. It's more like a guideline, not a hard rule. Finally, I always saw Teddy as being an embodiment of the more positive emotions people may suppress, like childishness or curiosity, instead of the resentment and fear that normal shadows represent.

@skulllatte3352

6 жыл бұрын

All the members of SEES enter the velvet room in The Answer. Although they weren't supposed to have entered.

@witchBoi_Connor

6 жыл бұрын

He mentioned your third point with a counter point.

@OldmanJables

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah, and matpat's counterpoint is wrong, which is what this guy is offering in the first place.

@mikigirl18

6 жыл бұрын

I kind of saw Teddie ending up in the Velvet Room because he was so upset and devastated over Nanako. His heart called out for some way to help her. And that lead him to the Velvet Room.

@mads_in_zero

6 жыл бұрын

Teddie being the auto-max link is important for another reason. (TL;DR, Teddie's Arcana, The Star, is related to the game's main themes) In Persona 3 (the game to introduce SLinks), the SLinks that auto-ranked were Fool and Judgement (for the party), and Death (for Pharos). Death is the main theme of Persona 3. In Persona 5, the non-party related confidants that auto-ranked up were Justice and Judgement. This is because those two concepts relate to the main themes of the game. Persona 4 has a theme of persistence and determination, in the sense that you have to continually reach for deeper truths to unlock the True Ending. Teddie's Arcana, the Star, reflects this concept.

That intro is 100% true and yes, I just need to point out that Adachi never fused with his Shadow. Ameno Sagiri is not a Shadow, it's a god that answers to human desires, all the stuff happening in the midnight channel made people want to simply leave in peace, oblivious from the truth, so he just went "Oh, humanity wants that, then I'll grant their wish!" The reason why you got a Persona was because Izanami gave it to him, the handshake at the start of the game is the trigger that gives him his Persona and the powers to enter the Midnight Channel, same with Adachi, wich is why Adachi basically gets the same Persona as Yu. It's also worth mentioning that the anime actually gave Yu a Shadow. So while it was entertaining, this theory doesn't hold much water.

@cherryberrykomainu8699

6 жыл бұрын

ZabieW the anime isn't canon.

@Lastarious

6 жыл бұрын

You just explained all without the need of the animation part. Even P4G makes this theory water. Guess Matt was low on info for this one. Still a fun theory

@tollburd1348

6 жыл бұрын

ZabieW Shush and just enjoy the theory XD XD

@pataponguy8190

6 жыл бұрын

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who noticed the handshake missing in this video.

@setsuyuhitzuran323

6 жыл бұрын

Mr ReeMann except he references pieces of anime in the theory so yeah

Actually in Persona 4 the Animation Yu meets his shadow during one of the final battles when he fights against Margaret and **Spoiler coming up** His shadow self expresses how he doesn't want to leave the town and his friends (Persona Protags and all their 1 year only rules), which ultimately he accepts to fully unleash his persona's power

@rishabbnarayan4288

3 жыл бұрын

I don't think the anime is canon. Not sure tho. But the games say he didn't need to meet his shadow, since (spoiler) Izanami shook Yu's hand, giving him the power of Persona without going through the whole ordeal of facing his shadow.

Counter-theory: Teddie is essentially the same type of being as Morgana. Created by Igor (or Philemon?) out of mankind's hope in order to guide the wild card to the World. This aligns with his arcana being Star, with his connection to Yu, with him wanting to help the party from the get-go, with his special role in the true ending, and with him accessing the Velvet room and feeling familiarity with it. A great deal of other people have explained in the comments why Yu doesn't necessarily have a Shadow.

@Naotosbiggestfan24

3 жыл бұрын

Who mentioned the bad butterfly 🦋 god, philemon?

You DO realize that this theory is immediately shot down by an in-game plot point explaining why Yu had a Persona, right...?

@DukeOfTheDepths

5 жыл бұрын

@@ilujabista9130 He doesn't even sound that salty and this comment is 10 months old bruh what are you doing

@lLlILILw

5 жыл бұрын

to be fair, it still brings about the question about namatames shadow though

@jondoe7036

5 жыл бұрын

@@lLlILILw What do you mean exactly? Which question? Namatame's Shadow never manifested as a separate physical entity in the TV-world, due to his possession of the Gift/Sagiri he received from Izanami, which caused him to physically merge with shadows instead and the one you see on the Midnight Channel in his hospital room is warped by the Investigation Team's misconceived perception of him as the true culprit at the time of seeing it.

@lLlILILw

5 жыл бұрын

@@jondoe7036 that makes sense, but when he was in the tv world, why was it that he was unable to use a persona, but instead turned into a shadow?

@jondoe7036

5 жыл бұрын

@@lLlILILw While him summoning Persona was possible in theory once he entered the TV-world, doing so would have still required self-acceptance and Namatame was riddled with quilt and doubt over his own actions by that point and after realizing how hazardous of a place the world inside the TV was, that only amplified those feelings and essentially mentally broke him for time being. There was no way he was able to achieve any sort of self-acceptance in state of mind like that. From the looks of it, he probably could have summoned his Persona if he entered TV the way he was by the Epilogue in Persona 4 Golden, but since he had lost his Gift after Investigation Team defeated his Sagiri, there'd be no way for him to try that on his own and given how his only experience of TV-world was, I'd doubt he'd want to even if he could.

7:42 His assistant Lizbeth Mat, that's Margaret.

@cheeselegs9950

6 жыл бұрын

He actually made a comment on how the fans are all pitchforks and torches on him for pointing this out. Although I didn't see it myself, a lot saw it and said that he deleted it soon after. what a twinkie...

teddie on thumbnail: (read in deap dark death voice) *im coming for you yu* teddie in reality: (read in high but not too high pitched voice) *EvErYdAyS gRaTe At YoUr JuNeS*

Technically yu does meet his in persona 4 the animation in the final battle tho like adachi said your shadow only gets violent if you deny them that's why you dont fight him because in the final battle in the anime he is just like "I know who you are and you are me" and along with his social links he gets his final arcana the world.

@anidiot192

4 жыл бұрын

And at litterally every shadow they say "YOU'RE NOT ME" (at least in the game, even the characters understand this, if I remember correctly teddie fills them in on this) and yosuke without fail tries to stop them (as in he doesn't fail to try, not fail to stop them he fails miserably at that)

I don't think that the _Persona_ fanbase will get mad at all. I remember when Persona used to be obscure and that every Persona fan was ecstatic to hear how popular it was getting when _Persona 5_ was announced/released. Persona used to be a niche franchise, we appreciate the publicity.

@kal-eldritch

6 жыл бұрын

Agreed

@sailorpaulino

6 жыл бұрын

Well, just read the comments regarding his little Margaret/Elizabeth mistake and you star losing faith in the fanbase again.

@cyd_hunter99

6 жыл бұрын

Too late, they already did

@howell2010

6 жыл бұрын

I mean, the persona fanbase is already attacking him, mainly over the Elizabeth/Margaret thing, but they are pulling out a lot of esoteric lore as well. The differences between the original Persona 4, Persona 4 Golden, The animation, and Persona Q (which I forgot was a thing) People really go after Mat Pat for dumb things when he covers beloved series instead of just enjoying the video.

@codydaily3807

6 жыл бұрын

Already hundreds of dislikes

Game Theory: Is Morgana Yaldabaoth?

@saito1001

6 жыл бұрын

a cup? that's worse than being a cat

@aaron75fy

6 жыл бұрын

shraffe naquiddin a cup that has no base (unless you include the pointy bit)

@currentlybeingremade9706

6 жыл бұрын

DocZombieX no. He was created by the hope of people by the true Igor

“and his assistant elizabeth”, hmmmm tell me more of this elizabeth

I know this is now 3 years old but in the p4 anima when Yu fights Margaret in the anima, Yu dose in face confront his shadow, and therefor, Teddy is not Yu’s shadow.

I'm sorry MatPat, while I love this theory and wish it was true, you missed a few things that pokes a few holes in the theory. I'm not blaming you for missing them, since the game has so much lore to it, so I'll just summarize a few things for you. Firstly, Yuu's Persona awoke due to, quite literally, divine intervention. The Goddess Izanami awaken's Yuu's persona when he arrives in Inaba, you see the scene happen in the beginning. And there is a misunderstanding about Adachi, his Persona awoke as Magatsu Izanagi, the boss you showed was actually a servant of Izanami, not Adachi's Shadow. Both Yuu and Adachi awoke to their Persona without confronting their Shadows, because they both accepted themselves for who they were. Everyone else didn't, they had to confront the dark part of their psyche to awaken their Persona first. As for the Velvet Room's appearance, the room changes to reflect the heart of the contact bearer. Minato's was an elevator, because he was always striving to achieve new heights. Yuu's was a car, because he was always moving forward. The reason why Teddie could enter the Velvet Room was due to him being a being made up of consciousness and when he began to doubt himself, he went into a state between mind and matter. It's why he could arrive there. We also see someone other than Igor and his assistant in the Velvet Room, Marie from Persona 4 Golden. She isn't a denizen of the Velvet Room, so someone else was able to enter beyond Teddie and Yuu. Again, I don't blame you for missing this. Most of it is said in passing or drawn from other games. But all of the games are connected, so the lore and mechanics stay the same across. Just the details change.

@neoxcydin6112

6 жыл бұрын

You are amazing

@totallynotsophia6032

6 жыл бұрын

Also the main protagonists are wild cards, anything goes even if it doesn’t make sense

@MaximusPowerz1012

6 жыл бұрын

All good points, I don't blame MatPat for having fun in this video, but in my head this theory just doesn't hold up... Also, in the Persona Arena Spinoff, it is specifically stated that a person's persona and shadow cannot exist at the same time, as they are one of the same, so that pretty much blows this theory out the window as well...

@PoggoMcDawggo

6 жыл бұрын

Siciother Yes and just like every other theory it can be critiqued and changed. Theories can be wrong and using the excuse “it’s just a theory” does not mean people shouldn’t correct it. If we never corrected false theories we would still think flies come from meat, or babies feel no pain.

@BaoHadir

6 жыл бұрын

Every theory should be criticized. But if MatPat went back and changed or made update videos to his debunked theories, we'd never get new theories.

Except...that's just wrong. Yu's shadow is Izanagi, forcibly awaken by Izanami so he didn't have to face himself. Teddie confirmed that he wasn't Yu's shadow anyway.

@KasumiSasori

6 жыл бұрын

just curious, when and how does teddie do this?

@sirxenon2690

6 жыл бұрын

he’s a shadow born from the desire to have friends and be liked by other people, hence his mascot appearance. Tho I believe he says himself that he just wanted other people to like him.

@trueoskar

6 жыл бұрын

That's what Yu's shadow in the anime says too, he wanted friends so he wouldn't be alone.

@deadaccount2968

6 жыл бұрын

trueoskar Anume Yu and game Yu are two different characters.

when your entire theory can be clearly and easily disproved by things main characters tell you in the games story

MatPat: The World Me: ZA WARUDO

Well the whole idea is that Yu never had a shadow because he was always true to himself. If Teddie WAS his shadow, he'd never be able to summon a persona unless Teddie had been accepted and became part of him. Plus the anime showed it as a separate entity in the final episode so...

@IkaMusume813

6 жыл бұрын

T h a n k y o u I have no idea how you can forget such a basic rule for P4 lore. Like that's always been a constant. I'm like 90% sure he didn't even play the game or watch the anime. This video is so bad its insulting.

@FaqndoRedX

6 жыл бұрын

I always believed Yu never faced is shadow when he got his persona because he was "empty" at the moment.

@C0smocast

6 жыл бұрын

Yes and no, he also received the handshake from Izanami, which allowed him to gain the power without the shadow facing. The same happened with Adachi with his Magatsu Izanagi

@HappyPotat

6 жыл бұрын

No all they got from Izanami was the power to enter the TV without a persona. If that was the case then Nametame would have a persona too and not have turned directly into Hippie Jesus.

@Fall2RUIN

6 жыл бұрын

You are about the only fan on here that has not convinced me to not play the other games. so tell me read the top 20 comments on this video, will playing 1-4 turn me into one of them?

There are...a lot of points to cover with this post I'm about to make. It's a long one, so apologies in advance. MatPat asserts that this franchise is self-contradictory, but neglects to put forth examples of this occurring; in turn, he operates under the assumption that this assertion is true in the areas relevant to the theory. This is a problem, for there are a myriad of points made that are inaccurate. I won't be able to cover all of the inaccuracies, but these are the ones that stuck out the most. Let's begin. - One caveat, I am working with the mindset that the two anime adaptations are not part of the series' canon; any evidence to support my claims will come from the games, all of which have been labeled as canonical. Yes, that includes Dancing All Night and Persona Q, even though the latter of the two has the most cop-out explanation for its canon eligibility I've ever seen. 5:10 ~ "It's just such an odd pattern to break...but Yu, the main character of the game, completely neglects this part of the process." - Minato Arisato (or Makoto Yuki if you go by the movies), the protagonist of P3, skips his game's version of the Persona Acquisition Process as well. In the case of Yu Narukami, specifically, he has no Shadow to accept because he is just given a Persona. This next point is going to come up a few more times, but it is important to note that a Persona and the Shadow from which that Persona is derived cannot exist at the same time. Whatever Narukami's Shadow would have been, it now exists as Izanagi. - As an aside, the various characters who get placed into Persona 4 Arena, with the exception of Elizabeth and Teddie, face their Shadows again despite having long since awakened to their Personas. This is not a contradiction, for it is later explained that the Shadow Selves of that game are just manifestations of The Malevolent Entity, the Big Bad of that game. The Entity cannot manifest Shadow Selves of Teddie or Elizabeth because they themselves are Shadows - a Shadow cannot have a Shadow. Shadows can wield a Persona upon becoming self-aware, as Teddie demonstrates, but instead of needing to accept a Shadow to awaken, they must instead become self-aware and assert some semblance of individuality. 7:52 ~ “We learn that [the Velvet Room] is only accessible to those who’ve received special invitation.” - This is not entirely accurate. The Velvet Room grants access to a myriad of beings - Shadows like Teddie, Elizabeth, Margaret, Theodore, Justine, and Caroline; Igor himself; gods like Marie; and of course Wild Card users like the protagonists. That last one, “Wild Card User” is very important, for that is the contract of which MatPat speaks. Wild Card Users are granted an extra perk in the form of Igor’s services. Marie is granted refuge in P4 Golden, but she can’t fuse Personas, make Skill Cards, or anything Narukami can. Persona 1 and 2 are outliers in that everyone is a Wild Card user, so the entire cast can enter the Velvet Room as Igor’s guests. In Persona 3, Aigis starts out as the Aeon Arcana, and cannot perceive the Velvet Room, but in P3FES: The Answer, she awakens to the Wild Card to replace Minato, and then gains access just as he once did. - Persona 3 also explains two other rules. The Velvet Room cannot be perceived unless you have high spiritual sensitivity; this next one is critical to P4 specifically - anyone who makes their way into the Velvet Room is destined to go on a journey of self discovery - this is the reason Teddie makes his way there during the events of P4; at this point he has reached a critical turning point in his existential crisis. If Teddie was Narukami, he’d possess the same sensitivity and would have, at some point, asked Narukami why he’s always going through that blue door in their hub area, or followed him through that door outright. In P5, we get confirmation from Ryuji that the protagonists are all momentarily seen as staring blankly off into space when they enter the Velvet Room. Time freezes when this is done, so it’s only noticed for a moment instead of being overtly concerning since you can easily spend hours at a time performing Persona Fusions in there. 9:56 ~ “Notice how none of the other Velvet Rooms have that contractual stipulation.” - They do. Minato in P3 cannot enter the Velvet Room until he signs the contract provided by Pharos. In turn, Joker of P5 cannot enter his Velvet Room until he consents to the contract presented to the player when you first boot up the game. The contract of P5 plays double duty here - you literally cannot start the game without signing this one, but to explain why P5 is the only one to do that thus far would be to spoil something incredibly major for P5. In fact, the specificity of needing a contract to freely visit and depart from the Velvet Room is introduced in P3, not P4. 10:06 ~ Details of counter-argument #2 - This counter-argument is entirely accurate, though not for how MatPat explains it. Teddie cannot be Narukami’s Shadow because one's Shadow and Persona cannot exist at the same time. Narukami was granted his Persona directly by Izanami, thus bypassing the process of needing to accept any personal flaws he might have had. Those flaws still exist, and it is through the help of his Social Links that he overcomes them and eventually awakens to his true Arcana, the World. 11:00 ~ “But both [Namatame and Adachi] still have Shadows that appear in the TV Land.” - Incorrect. We never see the Shadows of Adachi or Namatame because the two of them, like Narukami, received the power of Persona directly from Izanami. Narukami goes on to use his power to save people; Adachi abuses his power to orchestrate the serial murder case; and Namatame is a unique outlier in that he never actually summons his Persona, which presumably would have been another version of Izanagi. Namatame throws people into the TV World and that’s it. - Their transformations are not a result of them fusing with their Shadows - remember that a Shadow and Persona cannot exist in tandem - but rather them directly fusing with an amalgam of miscellaneous Shadows drawn to the power of Kuni-no-Sagiri (Namatame) and Ame-no-Sagiri (Adachi). They are used as conduits to allow two gods to manifest; their own Shadows are not involved because they don’t exist anymore. - And just to clear up one point that someone who played the game might bring up, the “Shadow Namatame” that appears on the television screen when the Investigation Team is seriously considering the act of throwing the real Namatame in there to die as retribution for Nanako is not Namatame’s real Shadow. That is a by-product of the fog of deceit giving the now disillusioned teenagers an excuse to carry out their revenge instead of seeking the truth that has just become even more difficult to ascertain. The lot of them, blinded by grief and rage, are internally seeking an easy way out of the current situation, which the fog provides because that’s what Izanami created it to do in the first place.

@realsteel9900

6 жыл бұрын

This needs to be top comment

@Terron145

6 жыл бұрын

Yes, this is true. Admittedly, in my efforts to proofread and fact-check my refute, I didn't touch up my phrasing as much as I should have. To say the Shadows outright disappear is inaccurate on my part, and I thank you for offering that correction.

@viczio

6 жыл бұрын

your futile efforts-to-proofread have no meaning~

@Terron145

6 жыл бұрын

Should we meet under these circumstances again, Lore Keeper, I should like to rectify my previous err and present a post that even you cannot find fault with.

@nguyenhoangkien6745

6 жыл бұрын

Man this is satisfying to read.

lets forget teddy has a persona