Matt: "This is not an entertaining process" Me: *Thoroughly entertained* "oh no"

@josephreynolds2401

3 жыл бұрын

one of us

@alandcapelari

3 жыл бұрын

I crave TTRPG design thoughts. I knew Matt through his series of videos "one fighter at a time"

@thaynedye1292

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, this design process is really fun to me. I love making fun weapons.

@gelbadayah.sneach579

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, same; I love game design! Nothing satisfies me quite like a well balanced probability matrix! Matt is really good with this kind of thing and that's absolutely why I subscribed. The fact that his excited personality makes it all entertaining is just the ice cream on the pie.

@willowweedsYT

3 жыл бұрын

Thing is I have never played D&D nor contemplated making my own game, but anything Matt talks about is just riveting to me.

my favorite d&d firearm factoid is that, technically, rapiers are more recent than firearms

@halo7oo

3 жыл бұрын

They are in real life too! At least in terms of when they became popular. The first firearms used in European combat were in the 1200's!

@darrinscott6612

3 жыл бұрын

And plate mail!

@fabulous_finn7810

3 жыл бұрын

@@darrinscott6612 hell plate mail as we understand it was in part a response to guns.

@nebby2763

3 жыл бұрын

@@fabulous_finn7810 wait really? thats super cool actually! now i gotta research this lol

@nathanmarcano3171

3 жыл бұрын

@@fabulous_finn7810 If memory serves, it is sort of inverse, though I am going off memory so I may be wrong.

While I also thought Pirates before Cowboys, for those of you who think that D&D ISNT a western: You stride into town, hit up the tavern (saloon), hear about someone causin a ruckus, go and stop them, and ride off into the sunset. Every town has an issue. Every villain has a schtick. Every mark has a bounty. Western.

@lokitakahashi3042

3 жыл бұрын

oh no, my paladin carries a shotgun and a lever action. its a western. just the medieval Texas Ranger kind. you never know whats through the next portal ya berk, but if you got enough scratch you may just keep yourself out of the dead book. mayhaps even earn yourself some jink while your at it.

@Drekromancer

3 жыл бұрын

I love the fuck outta this. I gotta use it now.

@perryfolk8796

3 жыл бұрын

I remember hearing Gygax or Arneson were real fans of westerns and used some of the tropes from Wild Westerns to frame their planning. Also, the early D&D space was kind of based in Westerns since those were some of the larger properties in the late 70s/early 80s and those stories and conventions seeped into the hobby.

@jimbodice2672

3 жыл бұрын

Absolutely, I mean the lost mines of phandelver is pretty much a western.

@GBS4893

3 жыл бұрын

That's general mercenary stuff tbh.

"The fantasy is that you are cool." Thanks for aptly summarizing my whole life, Matt.

Reload bonus is perfect for the "slight of hand" skill.

@bigfatcarp93

3 жыл бұрын

*Sleight

@kaleidoslug7777

3 жыл бұрын

It really is, huh? Finally a way to make that skill useful

@sirquestgiver8550

3 жыл бұрын

And then at 20th level you load 12 bullets into your 6-gun XD

@RiotKurhein

3 жыл бұрын

@@sirquestgiver8550 unless you have Expertise.

@The_ExoHunter

3 жыл бұрын

@@RiotKurhein oh dear

"when you think of blunderbuss, you don't think cool" Excuse you. Blowing away your enemy in a blast of shrapnel with a resounding and satisfying crack and boom, followed by saying "fear my boomstick" is the definition of cool.

@jeffrossi1642

3 жыл бұрын

I definitely designed a blunderbuss for my 4e game years ago and the players loved it.

@josephreynolds2401

3 жыл бұрын

Misfiring and saying "oh shit" at an incredibly inconvenient moment.

@shawngillogly6873

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed. Blunderbuss are amazing. The best part of Pillars of Eternity, after the cipher class, was black powder firearms.

@mirthfulArtist

3 жыл бұрын

Amen. And call it a rod of fireballs. 😎

@friarzero9841

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, Warhammer perfectly captures cool pre-modern firearms.

Matt: "What kind of fantasy are we imagining for pistols." Me: "Pirates." Matt: "Six guns." Me: ... "Okay. I wasn't going that direction, but it's a cool direction. I'd like to hear more." :)

@enxman7697

3 жыл бұрын

Same here xD

@JWonn

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, i think pretty much everyone here was thinking pirates.

@Skybot437

3 жыл бұрын

@@JWonn Yar not wrong.

@haerthguard

3 жыл бұрын

Same!

@brandonogden3498

3 жыл бұрын

... I thought 6 gun...

Hot take: D&D's standard world isn't "medieval Europe". It's Renaissance Europe in big cities and the Wild West everywhere else.

@dvklaveren

3 жыл бұрын

I like it to be a mix of late medievalism in terms of technology, philosophers born far ahead of their time, dark age politicians, postmodern realpolitik, wild west frontiers, chivalric/bushido codes of honor for the common soldier, Emmanuel Levinas inspired codes of honor for paladins and magical realism through the lens of Jean Baudrillard.

@Shalakor

3 жыл бұрын

Forgotten Realms especially, but even the less advanced official settings skewed this way. Even the more advanced D&D settings skew this way. Even Star Wars skews this way. People just associate wizards and dragons too much with medieval times to notice.

@jakesgenuineanarchy5955

3 жыл бұрын

A lot of games that I’ve played in embrace the industrial revolution as a good setting for fantasy.

@zubbworks

3 жыл бұрын

Pike and Shot. Rorkes Drift.

@ayyohwinning

2 жыл бұрын

@@dvklaveren you just described more succinctly than I think I ever could’ve EXACTLY the blend of shit I try and use in my game

I can totally see a blunderbuss, with sails, rope, & and a terrifying jolly roger!

@TheodoreMinick

3 жыл бұрын

A pirate with a brace of pistols is definitely in-genre.

@Ihileath

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheodoreMinick Aye, pirates and flintlocks came to my mind before westerns that’s for sure!

@HMJ66

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ihileath you probably don't need a whole lot of design for flintlocks either - just a ranged weapon with the loading stat that maybe does higher damage in exchange for shorter range or a chance of misfiring/jamming.

@DuffTerrall

3 жыл бұрын

Pirate was exactly where I went when he was asking about gun genre.

@8-bitsarda747

3 жыл бұрын

I love how none of the people replying to you have pointed out that a blunderbuss is a type of gun, not a ship.

6:45 "What do they have a fantasy about?" Me: Pirate pistols and Spanish Conquistadors era. MC: Sixshooters. Me: No... but let's see where this goes.

@ethan_anthem

3 жыл бұрын

I was also thinking Bloodbourne guns...

@BlancoPancho

3 жыл бұрын

AC black Flag's one-shot pistols up to 4 in your self for a quick strike

@tonyb9290

3 жыл бұрын

Listening now, almost identical thought pattern lol I thought a fighter with a special harness in place of armor with a bunch of flintlocks or gnomish clockwork pistols so he can rain bullets for awhile before spending half an hour to reload :)

@feistyvillain7308

3 жыл бұрын

Also, there's plenty of technology in the base game of 5e, like rapiers, that only existed in history after the invention of firearms.

@BlancoPancho

3 жыл бұрын

There was the Bilgewater homebrew cross over with League of Legends

I’m relieved everyone else was thinking “pirates” for the historical era. Great video Mr. Colville!

"Design isn't entertaining" Me listening and enraptured with my brain firing on full: wait what?

@joshuarichardson6529

3 жыл бұрын

Gamers aren't like most people. Strange things entertain us which normal people would find boring.

@johnathanrhoades7751

3 жыл бұрын

I feel like almost all DM's are game designers in some regard. I definitely enjoy it!

honestly i was expecting "pirates", not six shooters, but i'm happy to have been wrong

@burntnorris

3 жыл бұрын

Flintlock pistols was my first thought, which made me think of pirates as well.

@StevoM08

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah when he was asking those questions I defaulted to pirates and flintlocks not cowboys. Says a lot about how much of a gun fantasy I have. Lol

@DaCaldwell

3 жыл бұрын

I thought Cowboys first then Pirates. I was hoping for pirates. Lol But this is cool.

@thegreatandterrible4508

3 жыл бұрын

The first campaign I ran was a Wild West campaign, so that's where my brain immediately goes.

@PANCAKEMINEZZ

3 жыл бұрын

Eh... Six shooters are too out there for it to fit in my world. I only have one six shooter in my game, and it's the quest reward for an inventor who was way ahead of his time and also a very skilled Articifer with magic at his disposal.

I would argue that a lot (if not most) of modern D&D games and settings more closely fit within the realm of Renaissance era Europe moreso than Medieval Europe, making firearms even more at home in the world

@bmike3000

3 жыл бұрын

I definitely don't think most games are Renaissance era. At least not in my personal experience or the dms I commonly see posting online. Those games certainly exist, but I wouldn't call them the majority by any means

@emmalucas4177

3 жыл бұрын

@@bmike3000 I think a lot of what people commonly consider to be "medieval" is actually quite a lot later. As ohthreefiftyone mentioned above, full plate armor and a lot of the technology you see in games is emblematic of very late middle ages on through the Renaissance. I don't see many people running in medieval feudalist settings, most settings (a great example would be D&D's default setting, Forgotten Realms) feature independent city states and large unified nations or regions not splintered into the small locally controlled counties and duchies under a feudalist hierarchy. And you also tend to have things like artisan guilds and factions like the Harpers, very much Renaissance concepts IMO though of course this is Fantasy Land and not actual historical Europe

@TessHKM

3 жыл бұрын

@@bmike3000 Forgotten Realms, at least for 5th edition, presumes a Renaissance setting.

@ikaemos

3 жыл бұрын

Much like Emma Lucas pointed out, I think that's mostly due to a warped perception of what the Middle Ages were like. There are games set in, and embodying the fiction and fantasy of, the European Early Modern Period - mercenaries, pirates, religious conflict, intrigue among a trans-national tangled mess of aristocratic families, the end of chivalry and the start of massive mechanized warfare, bloated decentralized empires with even more bloated debts desperately spilling over into oversea colonies in search of wealth, and so on. It's a big world full of small people, and games about it usually have that inform their design - Zweihander, WFRP, etc. D&D, while not quite "medieval", still embodies the (modern) fantasy of a magical world of legends, knights, kings, honorable duels... It's a small world full of big people, and that structure is precisely what collapses at the onset of the Early Modern Period. You could say that D&D is _spiritually_ medieval, even though the trappings it presents are anachronistic.

@voland6846

3 жыл бұрын

@@ikaemos Yeah, I agree, most D&D tends towards medieval or even heroic-age in *thematics,* even if it's usually renaissance *aesthetically.*

As someone who has been watching your vids since the beginning, I LOVED this video and would love to see more game design processes and lessons

5:45 my favorite thing about the first Guardians movie was how much it felt like a sci-fi DnD campaign. They're all selfish murder hobos and they're hilarious.

"Long and rambling." Those are my favorite videos, honestly! I'm playing a gunslinger in an up-coming one shot. You gave me a lot to think about!

I feel like I've just been given the tools to turn my ideas into real, usable game mechanics. I think this is the most inspired I've been after watching an MCDM video. A whole new way to interact with gaming has been opened up to me. Thank you so much for this video, I'm so excited!!!!

@MrSilvUr

3 жыл бұрын

Hey! That's freaking awesome, man! (Or woman. Or other.)

"Arthurian knights didn't ride around with M16s!" Man, now I want to live in the timeline where they did.

@brothertaddeus

3 жыл бұрын

Be the change you want to see in the world.

@seanmcgurk2603

3 жыл бұрын

Watch "12 strong" with Chris Hemsworth.

@mauricewalshe8234

3 жыл бұрын

Of course not they would carry the L1A1 (selective fire version) in reference to the SA80 *Kingon voice* "We do not talk about that "

@dvklaveren

3 жыл бұрын

Obviously. That's a viking thing.

@bingus549

3 жыл бұрын

The dark tower

Honestly, blunderbuss/flintlock is way more interesting for "fantasy" than a six-gun, to me. Six-gun makes it Weird West or something, which is cool, but definitely a different genre.

@digitaljanus

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, but in pirate movies, a given character might unload two pistols and maybe take out a mook or two before the cutlasses come out and the real fight begins (Jack Sparrow's revenge bullet notwithstanding). So in the fantasy of pirate fiction, flintlock pistols are really just more grounded and serious handcrossbows. They're a softening-up weapon, not one you build a character concept around (again, 5e broken Sharpshooter builds notwithstanding).

@mrcatface6860

3 жыл бұрын

The way they do guns in Warhammer fantasy, i.e. Vermintide games, works really well for some reason, same thing with darkest dungeon

@DogKacique

3 жыл бұрын

There are renaissance guns with multiple barrels that would work in a similar way than what matt is proposing

@DogKacique

3 жыл бұрын

@@mrcatface6860 To be fair, warhammer guns are 16 century guns, just like most of the empire's tech

@Sammo212

3 жыл бұрын

I feel like d&d is already pretty western + romanticized, medieval fantasy.

Guns definitely fit as much as rapiers, and full articulated plate mail.

When designing for a UK audience, I found the thing which most appealed as something that felt "right" for that kind of fantasy setting, was the classic 1800 Baker rifle from the Napoleonic wars. Big part of the public imagination here thanks to classic Sean Bean show Sharpe, and a lot of novels set during the period. You can balance it pretty nicely too, by lining up its reload time with combat rounds - if someone wants to get off multiple shots, it rewards them with high damage per shot, at the cost of actions spent reloading, the only thing is getting the sweet spot between that and them always opening with a shot from it then never considering the reload worth it and just ploughing into combat leaving it lying behind them. You can neatly round it out as well by having lower damage flintlock duelling pistols that can get off single shots during combat but which you only really want to reload outside of combat fulfil that more disposable role.

@Pussinconverses

3 жыл бұрын

It's funny you mention Sharpe, Matt recently did a stream talking about that show! The VOD has been deleted but there is another one coming soon.

@davidc4983

3 жыл бұрын

That fire once and forget is actually very thematic of a historically accurate weapon. It's why pirates are depicted with bandoliers of flintlocks

@GreatBigRanz

3 жыл бұрын

So many Americans accidently discovered that show while researching civil war weapons. Christian Sharps was an American Gunsmith who invited one of the first practical breach loading rifles that where mainly used by Cavalry kzread.info/dash/bejne/foei0syJeNfdnNI.html

It seems everyone else had the same idea I did: pirates. Actually running a pirate themed game with firearms and some homebrewed ship combat rules.

@AugustBurnsSam

2 жыл бұрын

So is my brother. Except we got our ship, equipment and everything else taken away from us in like the third session so we're back to being regular-ass adventurers in a non-piratey pirate campaign.

@dbensdrawinvids8390

2 жыл бұрын

@@AugustBurnsSam Impossibly lame. LET PIRATES BE PIRATES.

I designed a full gunslinger class for 5e and one of the subclasses "The Wanderer" (based on archetypes like The Man With No Name) had the features you're talking about. The first was "Steady Aim" where at the start of your turn, you can use a bonus action to aim at a single target. You add your wisdom modifier to all of your attack rolls this turn to that target, but your speed is 0 until the start of your next turn. The other feature was "Fanning" where as an action you can make a number of attacks with your firearm equal to your proficiency bonus but each attack after the first has a cumulative -2 to the attack roll (3rd at a -4, etc)

The way I use (describe) firearms in my game is by making them semi railguns. It's mostly just a piece of metal which they just blast with lightning, getting the magnet coils to shoot it out at high velocity, therefore not only dealing piercing but also thunder damage. Oh, and it's loud. VERY loud.

@alizard7617

3 жыл бұрын

So it’s very “magitech”? I assume they cost a small fortune for the fact that you can turn a fully armored knight into a red mist with the press of a button.

@Calebgoblin

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah that's kind of along the lines of how I do it, because I just don't dig the connotations of gunpowder in my setting

@alizard7617

3 жыл бұрын

@@Calebgoblin gunpowder does currently exist in my setting, however it’s still in the novelty stage and hasn’t really been weaponized yet.

@Calebgoblin

3 жыл бұрын

@@alizard7617 fair fair! Flintlock fantasy is valid, it's just not my fantasy

@RiflemanTV

3 жыл бұрын

@@alizard7617 I prefer to think of it as "Magicpunk". Kind of like how Eberon does it with mixing magic with tech.

This came at just the right time for one of my games. The rogue took a gun-arm from a construct and has been turning it into his own firearm. I’ve been winging it so far but this video gave me some concrete ideas to work with.

@MrSilvUr

3 жыл бұрын

A gun-arm? Firearm-arm?

@Oblivlawls

3 жыл бұрын

Firearm²

@treymclemore3418

3 жыл бұрын

@@Oblivlawls haha glad you got the pun

@Alex-fn2hl

3 жыл бұрын

Honestly, the DMG rules for guns are fine. No need to over-design.

@treymclemore3418

3 жыл бұрын

@@Alex-fn2hl this PC is more of a tinkerer so he’s looking to customize the gun with attachments and mods, haven’t found rules in the DMG for that yet

There's a great part in Netflix's new Shadow and Bone where a character talks about firearms and magic coexisting. He says that when he was young, he was told that 1 Grisha (Mage) was worth 50 standard soldiers. Then the repeating rifle was invented and that figure became 20. Then the revolving pistol was later imported from abroad and it became 10. He then asks how long it will be until Grishas are just as useless as anyone else. If Mages have any political power in a region, this gives the very existence of firearms political weight. If you need Alchemists Guilds to make the powder and Crafting Guilds to make the firearm, and they are traditionally aligned with Mages, you can have a story about aristocratic Mages fighting to keep their relevance against a shifting world of line infantry belching fire and smoke with little training.

@friarzero9841

3 жыл бұрын

I just watched that. I think there's a great deal of cool storytelling potential in examining that period between late medieval and early modern that just hasn't been done by WotC.

Now that helped me way more than I thought it would. I have built some rpg mechanics and most of them can't fit any game because they were built as stand alone mechanics, ignoring genre and any kinds of fantasy. Once more: thanks, Matt!

After seeing Matt Mercer's Gunslinger, I would love to see what you and James could come with for firearms...an article for a future Arcadia?

@andrewwelsh9194

3 жыл бұрын

I’d also definitely recommend looking into the Renegade Fighter martial archetype that was published as a part of D&DBeyond’s limited time “Legends of Runeterra: Dark Tides of Bilgewater” promotion. I’ve run gunslingers in my world using both rulesets, and the Renegade is (IMHO) the more easy-to-run/read and fun 5e gunslinger

@procrastinatinggamer

3 жыл бұрын

One thing to note with Merced’s gunslinger (assuming you mean the Fighter archetype that Taliesin was using through campaign 1 for Percy) is that that is mostly a port of Pathfinder 1e’s gunslinger class and turning it into a fighter subclass. If he’s done a new version since then then disregard. Unless it still has Grit points, those were the key feature of the PF1e class.

@friarzero9841

3 жыл бұрын

@@procrastinatinggamer The grit points were key to the subclass but the Paizo rules for firearms themselves are perfectly workable in D&D 5e. The subclass includes rules about reloading, a list of firearms, and misfire rules.

@procrastinatinggamer

3 жыл бұрын

@@friarzero9841 yeah, but I’m saying a good chunk of the Gunslinger subclass’s design - when I last looked at it and based on how Percy was played in campaign 1 - draws a lot on Pathfinder 1e’s Gunslinger class and takes on firearms. Since Vox Machina’s campaign actually started as a Pathfinder one before they switched to 5e and began streaming it, I wouldn’t be surprised if Percy had been made in those PF days as a Gunslinger and it was only when they transitioned to 5e that Matt just ported the gunslinger over. And other mechanics - like misfire and such - were just brought over because “Taliesin’s used to how PF1e handles guns so I’ll just bring that over to ease the transition.”

@MusketPenguin

3 жыл бұрын

@@andrewwelsh9194 Going to piggyback and also recommend checking out "Weird West" by Mage Hand Press

Yes!!!! I love getting these windows into your game design. "Make ramming, a last ditch effort." I love this!!! Thanks Matt! SO INCREDIBLY excited for Kingdoms & Warfare.

@tearstoneactual9773

3 жыл бұрын

PREPARE FOR RAMMING SPEED! - Worf

One thing that I think is worth mentioning is that if you're designing special rules for your own game and the goal is to match a particular fantasy it's ok for a ruleset to be "overpowered" (at least in my mind). So long as the goal is to evoke a particular powerful fantasy. Recently I was running a one-shot for my friends using the mutants and masterminds ruleset, the premise was that they were a SWAT like counter terror/crime unit in some distant future corporate dystopia. One very important part of that premise for me was the idea of "breaching", where the squad has to make some effort in order to set up for a breach, they have to be relatively undetected, and succeed on a skill challenge (with any skill so long as they can explain how they use it) but if they do they're rewarded by a very powerful series of events. They get to chose what their initiative is from an array (first person to breach gets highest, last person gets lowest). They always act out a surprise round where none of their enemies get to act first. And based on the number of sucesses on the skill challenge (had to beat 14) they get this: "1 Success = 14 to be used on an ally or foe. 2 Successes = 7 or 18, with the 7 being an effect against a foe and 18 friendly. 3 Successes = 1 or 20, with the 1 being an effect against a foe and 20 friendly. Every breacher gets one result to use. These numbers can be used out of turn order. Meaning multiple people can use theirs at once. For example when multiple foes must make a roll at once. They can be used on any dice roll during a breach. They can not be rerolled, and must be used before a dice roll is made. **An unused result is lost**" This is insanely powerful. In the oneshot we've had the very first combat finish in the surprise round because the players rolled well and made good decisions. But that was the whole point of the system! I designed encounters with the assmumptions they'll breach them and thus I'll be able to roll through them faster. Not to mention, the idea was supposed to be that their organisation is infamous to the point where if people say "RIPpers are here" the characters could hear genuine terror in their voice. They were supposed to be boogeymen that all criminals have nightmares about and it worked PERFECTLY. So yeah, sorry for the long winded comment, but I think it is important to remember "why" you're designing a certain ruleset. If the idea is for it to be balanced, then try to keep it balanced. But if the idea for something like a gun is to be a terrifying weapon that should absolutely be kept out of people's hands rules can also be designed around that.

Related to homebrewing guns: A party I was in a while back had a Ranger that used a longbow, and me, a Monk who used guns. My DM and I both homebrew a lot and we wanted guns to not suck to use while still not completely overshadowing our Ranger. The fantasy we thought of was "gun make big boom", so we wanted them do extra damage. We didn't go for the western duelist principle because it just doesn't seem to work in DnD, since everything is a big sack of hit points in this game. Since they dealt a lot of damage, we needed to give them some drawbacks so that they wouldn't overshadow the ranger. The drawbacks we gave them were threefold: 1. They had the "loud" property, which meant that for the most part everyone within half a mile could hear it when I shot. 2. They had a loading penalty, which meant when you fired the number of shots the gun could have (so it would say "loading 2" for a double barrel shotgun) then you had to spend one attack to reload. 3. I had to track ammo, which we developed what I thought was a fun system for which I'll explain later. I had a six-gun that dealt 1d10 damage (a lot for a one handed weapon), had "loading 6", and used "light" ammo. Had a sniper rifle that dealt 2d12 damage and had "loading 1." that used Heavy Ammo and had disadvantage up to 20 feet because of the scope, but a super long range and could help me see at distances. Had a double barrel that dealt 3d6 damage, had "loading 2" and used Heavy Ammo, and shot in a cone in front of me where enemies had to make dex saves. Now, the ammo system: We decided that the longbow ranger shouldn't have to pay attention to ammo because it was easy to buy, find, craft, restock, etc. Arrows are everywhere. Bullets, in the setting we were playing, were not. A person could hold three slots of light ammo and two slots of heavy ammo in easily accessible areas at a time. When you roll a natural one to hit with a weapon, you mark off one "slot" of the ammo of its type. When you're out of slots, you're out of ammo. If you are carrying extra ammo say in a backpack or a saddlebag, you could refill one slot with an action at a time. The system was actually fun, because it made me consider when going into an encounter if I should carry more shotgun ammo or more sniper ammo, or a mix of both. It also added narrative tension because knowing I was low on ammo and could run out at any second made it riskier to engage in a combat, so I had to make the choice between spending a turn restocking if I could or taking the chance that I could run out if I went in. You knew it was coming, but didn't know exactly when.

The -6 to AC for higher damage might be a good way to incentivize John Woo movies. Everyone running around blowing the hell out of the set to avoid getting shot.

At THE moment Matt said design process was boring, I was completely enthralled in it. Am I a designer-in-making, or is Matt a great speaker? Or both?

@SimonMaroon

3 жыл бұрын

When given an either/or, say yes, and if it works, you're not dealing with a binary.

@Drekromancer

3 жыл бұрын

Definitely both. I can't get enough of this stuff.

As someone who has 'fanned the hammer', accuracy is out the window, starting at shot one. No level one should hit the broad side of a barn doing that

@Drekromancer

3 жыл бұрын

Hahaha. Thanks for sharing! That helps tune the realism of this design, I think. That begs the question, though: which direction do you want to take the design? Will you maximize realism (missing the broad side of a barn), or strive for the fantasy (McCree instakilling a 6-man enemy team with one rapid volley)? The choice is yours!

@LaceNWhisky

3 жыл бұрын

How about we make "fan the hammer" a Dex save instead of an attack roll? DC = 10 + Dex mod, it expends the entire cylinder/magazine or what's left, forcing the need to reload before the gun can be used again, and only hits up to as many targets as you had ammo left in the cylinder before making the attack, starting with the lowest save result going up, in a 15-30ft cone in front of the user.

I love how everyone in the comments agrees that we want pirate guns

when talking about firearms Warhammer Fantasy pops into mind. There are a few other neat ideas in there, like corruption.

@shigerufan1

2 жыл бұрын

A brace of two single-shot pistols is a common thing to give empire and dwarf commanders in WFB and Mordheim, and the Ratmen use Jezzails and crude, wildly inaccurate gatling guns as staples for their ranged support.

Your shirt makes me really happy, I need one! Thanks for the video as always.

Really nice display of game design, especially how it shows that wanting to get a specific fantasy to work often leads to overly complex rules that don't work. It's almost always better to simplify your design up to a point that you cannot simplify it any further without losing the fantasy you're trying to achieve.

At 17:55 you add in that enemies get advantage because you're standing still, but I think it should be *Creatures* *you* *didn't* *attack* *this turn have advantage* *on attacks against you* *until the start of* *your* *next* *turn* since you're looking directly at your target (or targets, plural with certain combo features). This wording has the bonus of accounting for Haste and cross classing into Fighter. After all, we see heroes in action movies narrowly avoid attacks made against them from the guy they're shooting at all the time, but be completely unaware of a flanking maneuver until it's too late. This way you really feel like you're only looking at the one target enemy with the intensity of a western hero.

Firearms don't work for the Tolkien style medieval fantasy that we see a lot today, but muskets are all over the Grimm faerie tales.

@alekssavic1154

3 жыл бұрын

If you want to do a strictly Tolkien-esq fantasy then yes, but there's no reason why you can't do that type of fantasy but with guns. There's a pretty large overlap between the first guns and the last use of amour and swords IRL, so there's a lot of neat ideas to explore in fantasy too.

@tnatstrat7495

3 жыл бұрын

Eh. Hard to still call Forgotten Realms Tolkein style these days.

@joshuarichardson6529

3 жыл бұрын

There was a Blunderbuss in "Farmer Guiles of Ham." though the hero only used it once.

That was a very insightful look into the mind of a designer. I loved it! Also the flavor of a reload action rolling a d6 and reloading that many bullets is such a good idea. Top tier content here.

That moment when you watch Matt Colville go over almost the exact same thought process you did when you were designing your own gun system... Maybe I should be getting into game design

As for firearms and D&D and so-called Medieval Europe: plate mail and two-handed sword appeared around renaissance, at which point simple firearms were certainly present

Daily reminder that early firearms predate the full plate paladins are often seen in

@madsam7582

3 жыл бұрын

They did have the Cuirass and used them on horseback vs. Muskets.

@alizard7617

3 жыл бұрын

@Ouro Boros yea, its primary advantage is that armor was by and large paper to it. The downside was reliability, or the lack of it. I prefer early firearms cause then my “I wanna do a gunslinger” player isn’t some dumb spaghetti western transplant into my low-mid magic setting with tech close to the 11th or 12th century. It’s still anachronistic as hell but it’s not as egregious.

@alizard7617

3 жыл бұрын

@Ouro Boros also if I’m not mistaken, gunpowder was made by Chinese monks in the 11th century trying to achieve immortality. Instead of getting a life extender, then made a life shortener.

@velazquezarmouries

3 жыл бұрын

And predate rapiers another staple of dnd

@velazquezarmouries

3 жыл бұрын

@Zach A well it depends some armour in the renaissance was purposely built to resist gunfire from a distance

I figured that "fanning the hammer" fantasy would be partially filled by having a gun fighter with multiple attacks. It would be interesting to be able to "spend" extra attacks to stand still and increase the damage of your shot. It would even be balanced to if you get an extra damage die per attack that you spend this way

@crimfan

3 жыл бұрын

IMO the existing rules already do a pretty good job with most of this. In the Old West it was common to carry a lot of pistols because reloading them was hard, so a character built on this kind of premise probably would have several. A fast firing character would be built as a Battlemaster, whereas the devastating single shot type as a Rogue. (I'm leaving aside the magical pistoleer built on a Warlock chassis, but that's viable too.) If a revolver was a difficult weapon to make and cost a lot, that would keep it out of the hands of riffraff, but within the realm of PCs. A good analog would be Plate Mail.

Let’s keep it real, guns were invented 300 years before the spyglass/telescope so historically, firearms absolutely should work.

@kiritotheabridgedgod4178

Жыл бұрын

Especially something like a flintlock pistol. The second he said "what is the Fantasy of guns" my mind instantly went "Highwayman" if just because of the whole "Stand and Deliver, your money or your life" being a badass line, that isn't overly edgy.

There's a few ways I've approached firearms for DND, particularly 5e. Want em to be super potent and realistic? Can only use them once per short rest or something, basically treat em on par with wands that deal a lot of damage once per day, with a similar cost. If they're too accessible, players will just buy multiple to avoid reloading. But if you want them to be accessible to players? Try to compare them to other ranged weapons. While it feels a bit weird to make em on par damage wise with bows and the like, it makes em very interchangeable, and you can add some small tweaks. (E.g., maybe trade some range for more damage over a crossbow, or give them a trait to do more damage within a certain range increment for say scatterguns.) Wanna do special actions, like six shooting, etc.? To be honest, I'd make it a feat or class feature or fighting style in conjunction with above. If they have specialized actions, they start feeling less like weapons and more like features. It makes them feel too 'special' to the other options otherwise. I really like how pathfinder 2e handles guns too, in their current playtests. The 3 action system makes reloading them feel easier to balance, and the fatal property means that if you get a critical hit (which also happens if you beat the AC by 10), they feel as powerful as you'd expect a gun to be. Classes like the Gunslinger really capture the western feel even without an actual six-shooter, while an Investigator with a gun feels like a sniper or marksman out of the movie Untouchables. Or give em to your fighter, rogue, or swashbuckler to capture the feel of pirates.

@matildaduff3543

3 жыл бұрын

Fun fact, "buy multiple guns to avoid reloading" is exactly what people did during the days of flintlock, so you would have soldiers (usually cavalrymen) walking around with four or more pistols hanging off their belts.

@Zedrinbot

3 жыл бұрын

@sheparddog117 Except players don't care about loud enough for it to be a detriment. Loud is far more flavor than anything and you can't mistake flavor for balance, even if you're adding 'deafened' as a side effect. Including a clause "gunfire can be heard up to a mile away" doesn't suddenly justify doing absurd damage as an easy to use weapon. It should be natural and expected for them to be loud, but there are spells that do the same thing that don't deafen you (thunderstep, knock, etc.). Also I used to be a firearms collector. This is at the end of the day, a game, and adhering too closely to realism doesn't always make for the best choices. Also x2, muskets and flintlocks were not as loud as modern firearms.

@crickettbug3959

3 жыл бұрын

It’s funny you mentioned PF2e in a later paragraph, because your first idea with the short rest made me think of Focus Spells from 2e. You could just give the guns a reload time that makes it impractical to do in battle, maybe a minute or 30 seconds even. Easy to do after combat, but near impossible in battle. Then if you decided to do gun-related feats or class features you could include reload-time reduction stuff.

@Zedrinbot

3 жыл бұрын

@sheparddog117 Did you even watch the video / read my post?

@Zedrinbot

3 жыл бұрын

@sheparddog117 I said it's not enough to balance it, and that there's plenty of things in 5e that already make just as much noise but without the side effects you're mentioning. It would make things feel inconsistent. Sure, they'll emit noise and blow your stealth, but mechanically that's not enough to balance them as a _weapon._ Re-watch the video because it talks about the concept of creating a specific fantasy you envision and your suggestions are completely off the mark. And again, re-read my post, cause you clearly think I'm trying to say something completely different.

"Do they fit the genre of 'medieval European fantasy' the D&D is based on? No, of course not, don't be ridiculous, Arturian knights didn't ride with M60s" And they didn't ride with anything close to full plate armor, yet we have these in D&D, plenty of them. Even when guns predate full plate armor.

@alizard7617

3 жыл бұрын

Average six shooter in my setting with tech analogous to 11th or 12th century fan Vs Average “yea I’ll use an early matchlock, it’s a bit of an anachronism but you’re ok with it right?” Enjoyer

@pitchforksdragon1252

3 жыл бұрын

You should know, i'm not left handed.

@velazquezarmouries

3 жыл бұрын

Well handgonnes cannons And even serpentine muskets were used during the later half of the medieval period and by the existence of rapiers and full plate armor in dnd we can tell that it is mostly in the late medieval period or early renaissance All if you don't count katanas or smallswords

One single firearm exists in my D&D setting, a revolver-esque pistol that propels shards of obsidian with what is essentially a stored Eldritch blast inside. The obsidian has to slowly grow back inside the cylinder, which is the "cooldown"

@fabulous_finn7810

3 жыл бұрын

Stealing this

@8-bitsarda747

3 жыл бұрын

please tell me it is specifically a pepper-box style revolver

@Calebgoblin

3 жыл бұрын

@@8-bitsarda747 sorry m8

This is one of the best videos I've ever watched, and I've been looking for this kind of content for a veeeery long time, especially since last year when I started developing and designing unique mechanics involving rituals and lighting bonfires for my own setting. I'd watch videos that go through processes like this all day for days

Listening to your proces this is what I came up with: Make it a magic item. You can make different weapons have more or less damage, or different size in magazines etc. based on their worth (rarity). My take: Western Sixgun. This is a short range weapon found in the western lands, where lawlessness rules. It became populair due to its versatility. You can use it in two different ways "Fan and Blast" or "High noon shot". Fan and blast gives you the ability to quickly unload your gun and instil terror in you opponents. As an action you can shoot half your magezine (3 shots) and you make 3 ranged attacks each with disadvantage. Every shot does 1d6 damage (+ dex mod) and all enemies not in at least half-cover make a Wis saving throw (DC 10 + dex mod) or are frightend (of being shot) until the start of your next turn. High noon shot: the shot to end your enemy. As an action you can shoot one precise bullet, make 1 ranged attack with advantage and lose your movement for this turn enemies have advantage on attacks against you. For this attack you can choose your dex or str, you ignore half and three-quarter cover. The shot does 3d6 dmg (+dex or str mod). If you hit the enemy and it fails a Wis saving throw (10+str or dex) it is Shocked (Shocked is a condition in which and enemy cant take actions and movement is halfed) until the start of your next turn. These shots have to be perfect so after every third *maybe second. shot you have to clean your barrel from sooth and powder residu this takes an action. Reload: Use your action to fill the gun. Roll 1d6 + dex mod, thise is the amount of bullets you can refill. Is the amount bigger then the amounts of bullets you need to fill the magazine, then you can use your bonus action to fire (ranged attack) 1 bullet dealing 1d6 damage. Edit: Range Fan and blast has a max 30ft range, high noon shot 60/90ft range. Nobody is proficient from the start in weapons, so they have to take a feat to add their PB to the reload check and attacks.

You going through the design process was actually incredibly entertaining. It allowed me to go through the process with you and build ideas in my own head! Love every video you do!

@jrpjrp201

3 жыл бұрын

You can say that again

2:14 The answer is actually yes, they obviously wouldn't be using m16's in medieval times, but they would be using rudimentary firearms like handgonnes, arquebuses and cannons.

This is definitely one of the most useful videos you've put out so far! Really nails the design process in a way that's actionable for a DM trying to homebrew content for their game.

Matt, I'm gonna tell you right now . . . You're completely wrong about 'firing a blunderbuss' not being a fantasy. Always have to remember, Pirates are cool. Pirates had loads of pistols on their bandoliers, or they had long-muskets that they used for accuracy, and so on. Pirates are cool, so flintlocks are cool. And then you expand that out to a pioneer fantasy, or a colonialist fantasy, and it starts to really grow and grow.

@Quandry1

3 жыл бұрын

Yes. Percy from the first season of Critical Role would have been just as fitting in our World with his guns (magical barrels aside) as he was in Exandria. And he was basically using what were actual multi-shot variations on things like flintlocks that really saw some use before the revolver was fully invented as we know it.

@shigerufan1

2 жыл бұрын

Arabian Jezzails are also a good starting point, especially if a character wants to take a more sniper-esque role.

@All4Tanuki

Жыл бұрын

Ah! Bazaar Bargain!

Great video! Having poached enough from 3e, my mind went mediately to the two firing modes which I think would be rather cool. But the best part of the video by far was the "what behaviors do we want to encourage to capture the fantasy?" I'm not a game designer so I've never thought of it that way, but it makes total sense. Definitely learned something today, thanks!

Stoked on this cos I'm considering running my K&W homebrew in the Napoleonic era.

@jeremyscroggs9652

3 жыл бұрын

I am running a pirate campaign in an era partly inspired by the Napoleonic era and it's great. Would recommend

@VosperCDN

3 жыл бұрын

If you don't have at least one player wanting to play a Rifleman, they've not watched enough Sharpe.

@ApathyParabellum

3 жыл бұрын

@@VosperCDN Fighting undead at TOree Castro instead of French Cavalry, now that's soldiering.

@dvklaveren

3 жыл бұрын

Have you read the Temeraire series by Naomi Novik?

@ApathyParabellum

3 жыл бұрын

@@dvklaveren No, tell me more.

Love this kind of content. I recognize a lot of what you describe as what we do when tweaking our home game. Speaking of which what you describe isn’t just useful for designing a new game but also working out rulings for your own table.

This is 100% an entertaining process. I'm one of those people that watched *all* of Mike Merles Happy Fun hour... twice.

@voland6846

3 жыл бұрын

yeah I really enjoyed that series

"This is not an entertaining process" Wrong, it is entertaining for a very niche audience.

@SpiseyMcHaggis

3 жыл бұрын

I feel like I’m back in logic’s class in college 😂❤️

@shigerufan1

2 жыл бұрын

Working on homebrewing rules for another tabletop game, so I find it relatable in addition to entertaining.

No part of this was uninteresting. I routinely fall down the "homebrew" rabbit hole until I am suddenly building a nearly brand new system and every part of this video spoke to my memories of those wonderful and frustrating projects.

my favorite thing about these videos *is* the authenticity of the process. it’s probably one of the best things i couldve seen back when i was first testing the waters of game design. thank you for that

This is phenomenal, similar to The Chain Campaign Diaries, content with examples and an explanation of your thought process is so so useful Matt, thank you very much for sharing!

Love it! Though you can add another knob to tweak by considering ammunition: How common is it? Are there different types? Can you craft it, and if so, how expensive/rare are the materials? ...what if the gun shot SPELLS!? *outlaw star intensifies*

@NevTheDeranged

3 жыл бұрын

I have a custom class called the Runeslinger, that's basically the Arcane Archer as a gunslinger. They carve runes into both their guns (say, accuracy, or phasing) and also into the ammo (fire damage, blindness, radiant, etc).

@digitaljanus

3 жыл бұрын

This would be the gun mage class from the Iron Kingdoms setting.

Wait, a new video series called Game Design? I'm down! But how did we already get to episode 101? Did I miss 100 episodes already!?

You are truly inspiring. You’ve just completed sold me on creating original in game equipment. I’m adding it to the list of 100 other things I have to do, to make my D and D game that much better.

One of my favorite videos to date. Hope to see more of these in the future. Thanks.

We need the six shooter so we can have an excuse for Matt Mercer to say "it's high noon" in critical role

@pixelated.dreams

3 жыл бұрын

Wasn’t Pepperbox a six shooter?

@aurorameyer159

3 жыл бұрын

@@pixelated.dreams Yes.

@Quandry1

3 жыл бұрын

@@pixelated.dreams A form of multi-barrel flintlock but it's the precursor of the six shooter in several ways yes. Percy's nemesis had what was closer to a proper six shooter however, which as I recall Percy later aquired.

My players' fantasy when asking for guns: *shiny stick goes BOOM* Me: "Here, have a brass wand."

Love your thought process. Has me looking at all my plans and ideas in a different way.

i LOVED this episode, explaining to us and showing us the thinking process, the steps. that was great, thank you.

Renegade Fighter martial archetype that was published as a part of “Legends of Runeterra: Dark Tides of Bilgewater” made the guns more of an ability than a weapon (I think they are sort of magical, so you don't deal with ammo and reloading). Good ideas to work off of.

I feel im in a perpetual state of waiting for the next vid lol

Honestly just listening to you ramble on and talk about design is so much fun 💜

THIS IS MY BOOMSTICK Today's task: Homebrew sawed off shotgun.🤩

Idea for fanning the gun: you get the penalty for each shot above however many attacks you get in your attack action. So a 20th level fighter gets 4 shots for free and can do 2 more at disadvantage or at -1/-2 or -2/-4. 5th level fighter gets 2 shots for free and can do 4 more with penalties

Really great to see your workflow man, thank you, you're a master for sure!

That was a really interesting look into the design process. I really appreciate that video, and it definitely goes to show you the amount of thought you need to give something when a homebrew idea is presented at your table.

The Hair. Has Got. To Go.

@birdiesfrijoles8324

3 жыл бұрын

You have to become a real wizard, you’re half way there!

@Pussinconverses

3 жыл бұрын

We're not allowed to comment on Matt's appearance!

@brandonneil11

3 жыл бұрын

Hahaha, you're starting to look like DnD Jesus !

@andreww830

3 жыл бұрын

Ah, but when it does I will be sad.

@derblobinmeister3006

3 жыл бұрын

Hard disagree.

I've always used the "Your heavy crossbow is now a musket" school of thought

This might be my favorite video! I would love to see another of these some time

I enjoy discussions like this, because there are so many different directions that design can take. Often different people have ideas that another simply doesn't even consider, so it's nice to see freeform thought on the design.

when you were asking what type of guns people have cool fantasies of, I just kept saying, "pirates". I was disappointed to hear "cowboys".

@MindOfGenius

3 жыл бұрын

Pirates of the Caribbean. halfling with a blunderbuss being blasted backwards

21:42 D&D 5e has 13 Classes now, this last one also gives proficiency with firearms innately.

This is one of the best videos you've ever made about anything ever.

Love ya, Matt. These videos definitely make me a better DM. I learned a couple new things in this video and was also pleased to see that there are some things I already do that were part of your approach to design.

I watched a history series where they tested a crossbow against one of the first muskets and the crossbow was deadlier but the musket was easier to use for a layperson

@epis8613

2 жыл бұрын

And you can put a bayonet on a rifle. It's a polearm and firearm in one. Extremely op for the time.

Literally just yesterday I was pondering simple firearms addition to 5e, what crazy coincidence.

@stevensmith3523

3 жыл бұрын

That happens all the time for me. One day I'm wondering how to implement a certain concept in my game, the next day, or sometimes later that day, Matt uploads a video that helps! He is a true wizard.

@NieroshaiTheSable

3 жыл бұрын

I'm blown away at the amount of people who haven't read the whole DMG.

@TyrannusAvarus

3 жыл бұрын

@@NieroshaiTheSable I didn't care for the as written rules.

@stevensmith3523

3 жыл бұрын

@@NieroshaiTheSable I use it only as reference for rules rather than a manuscript on how the game should be played, if I forget a condition I will check but anything else that isn’t a core game mechanic I rule in the game. And yeah I’ve maybe read 1/3 of the DMG

Matt, Im making an RPG on my own at the moment and this is SO USEFUL. Thank you

I LOVE game design and theory stuff, please make this a whole series :D

The thing is D&D weapons are balanced against each other inside the system, and that system has little relationship to real world combat, so guns are just a relatively high damage weapon. IRL any weapon has a good chance to kill or serious harm somebody. Bows, crossbows, and even slings are only moderately less deadly than guns against unarmored people. So guns really should only do moderately more damage than other weapons but have a better chance against to hit against armored opponents. The infamous THAC0 was designed to handle exactly this kind of problem, but it was just a bandaid over the design wound that is attrition-based combat. Matt's great and I really respect him, but this is like listening to a debate over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin: every "solution" requires a qualifier, an amendment, a rule inside a rule inside a rule. And at the end there's no great solution, because whatever you do, you're just propping up a mechanic with another mechanic. The problem isn't guns, it's D&D. This is why I use Powered by the Apocalypse systems: everything's deadly. If you roll well, you mess somebody up. If you roll poorly, you're on the receiving end. Maybe slightly more so for a deadlier weapon, maybe slightly less so if the opponent has armor. You can hold the rules in the palm of your hand and get on with the business of roleplaying. EDIT: And Apocalypse World literally has a stat for "cool under fire." It's called... Cool.

I love how Matt said “Lets design Dark Tower for D&D”😭😭😭

@TheLyricalCleric

3 жыл бұрын

He remembered the face of his father.

@lokuzt

3 жыл бұрын

_Ka is a wheel_

I was in the middle of working on the design for my RPG when I got the notification for this vid and decided to take a break to watch it. Perfect timing as usual :)

This was super fascinating, thank you for the video!

Brainlets: "fIReARms dOn'T bElOnGS iN FanTaSy" Me, wondering where in traditional European medieval fantasy does a submarine crab mecha come into play: I c

@josephreynolds2401

3 жыл бұрын

Must.....conform.....! Augh no it's too much pressure!

@hundbait

3 жыл бұрын

>me stopping the game to inform the DM that magic does not exist so the Wizard cannot cast a spell

@friarzero9841

3 жыл бұрын

Firearms have played such a huge part of the end of the medieval era, it's so disappointing to see people scoff at including them in fantasy. Not only were cannons and handgonnes used as early as the Hundred Years War in the west but fire lances and rockets were going strong for hundreds of years before that in China!

@dominickfinch5693

3 жыл бұрын

@@friarzero9841 firearms play a big part in my world. They just aren't wide-spread in the campaign that my players are currently in.

@nunyabusiness9433

3 жыл бұрын

Medieval armies used firearms and cannons. Rarely did they exist outside Royal arsenals, troops in the field of battle and siege trains. The average wandering adventurer is roughly never going to be toting an arquebus. Thus, they exist in my campaign, I have rules for them, they inform plot and conflict, but have almost exactly zero part in the gameplay itself. This is exactly the "Three Musketeers" formula. Almost exclusively swordplay in a world where war is dominated by firearms.

aw yeah love the shirt, happy pride month!

I love that this is about your design process rather than just a delivery of what you think gun rules should be. It’s much more educational this way! I would love more videos like this. I often go back to the world building videos to inform my own process, but they are of course super long, and criminally under-viewed. I’d love to see lessons from those videos boiled down into more digestible videos like this!

Awesome video. Great to see the process and really appreciate all the insight that even if you love an idea the design may just not fit.

Yo if you could look into dumping the twitch vods on KZread that would be awesome! I love the long form content, but my sleep schedule is fucked and the twitch vod player is (notoriously) garbage.