Missed a great opportunity to state that "32-bit float recording is a complete GAIN changer" 🤣

@bostocked

Жыл бұрын

Thissss loooool

@benderocks788

Жыл бұрын

I see a T-Shirt opportunity here! 😁

@Mix3dbyMark

Жыл бұрын

if only his script was in 32-bit float, he could go in and add this joke

@Elcanario91

Жыл бұрын

​@@benderocks788 yeah but would only be understood by 1%... Of the most nerdy 1% of sound engineers 😂

@benderocks788

Жыл бұрын

@@Elcanario91 I bet these T-shirts would sell like hot cakes at the NAMM show! 😁

I think HDR photography would be a much better analogy. In audio, you have this window you have to shift around. In photography that window is the dynamic range of the camera sensor and it comes exactly with the same problem. When you don't set that window to the correct setting (gain or exposure settings in the camera) some samples/pixel will be outside of that range (clipping/hissing/non-audible or over or under exposured) which can't be restored in post because information was lost. Sometimes, what you want to capture has such a big range in volume/brightness that the window you're shifting around just isn't big enough (very loud AND quite impulses or very bright AND dark areas in the picture). To deal with that you just make multiple recordings (at once with audio/in a row with photo) and then combine them by having different pairs of preamps with different gain settings and A/D converters, choosing the converter which is within that window for that specific sample or taking multiple photos and choosing the photo with a good exposure for that specific pixel. RAW or JPEG files are a better analogy to WAV or MP3 files. JPEG and MP3 files are compressed and information was lost. RAW and WAV both are uncompressed and all the information of the recording is still there. But just with a RAW photo without HDR, you can still have the problem of over- AND underexposed pixels when the dynamic range of the sensor is to low for that picture.

@AlexGuzmanGTR

Жыл бұрын

This is very correct.

@porkpie2884

Жыл бұрын

HDR Photography is the equivalent of overdone audio compression. Not the same.

@kylelitwack

Жыл бұрын

As a professional photographer it is most similar in my mind to setting color temp in raw vs jpeg. It's something I frequently just leave it on auto for raw because I can change it after the fact. If I was shooting jpeg for some reason though it needs dialed in by hand.

@sonarun

Жыл бұрын

I think HDR is the best analogy, not RAW. With most audio capsules, there is a technical limit to how much DB it can capture, but for most practical purposes, it’s quieter than you and hear and louder than you can hear. Camera sensors aren’t like that at all. At best they can capture 15 stops of dynamic range, and the human eye can see something like 23 stops. So the sensor is a very weak part of the camera. So multiple frames have to be captured at once. 32 bit recording, like HDR allows to smash the extremes into one file using clever processing. Not exactly the same, but pretty close.

@Ozpeter

Жыл бұрын

Yup, HDR is a much better comparison. In fact the multiple exposures of HDR photography equate quite well to the multiple preamp / AD converters of this mic.

This is a great video explaining how 32-bit float recording works! I think the only aspect that's missing is the notion that you still need to practice good mic technique and placement when recording in 32-bit float. An analogy I like to use is to think of 32-bit float recording like shooting a 360 video. With a 360 video, you can simply hit record and reframe your shot in post, much like 32-bit float recording and the ability to "reframe" the gain in post. However, if your initial 360 camera position is, for instance, too low, you can't magically change the perspective. Likewise, if your mic is too far away from your subject, and you're in a noisy environment, raising the gain in post brings up not only the voice being recorded, but also the ambient environmental sounds. Conversely, if you're too close to the mic, plosives will still ruin a 32-bit float recording.

@alinsey5774

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for this great explanation! I just started doing more 32-bit float recordings myself. It feels so weird not having to set gain or trim. I have been trying to figure out how it works to have more options available in post.

@JorgetePanete

Жыл бұрын

I would consider AI that changes the perspective or removes noise pretty much doing it magically

This is so important! I really like how Dan's strategy to teach 32-bit float is to begin by explaining why DAWs use it -- that's the best way to see how it especially makes sense there, and why it's where it's been for the longest. If this educational production portends a whole 32-bit float product line on the way from Rode, this is truly exciting! Zoom has phoned it in recently after their fantastic F6, with poorly engineered MicTrak products, and Rode has a great opening here.

In this video you guys are forgetting that preamplification happens before conversion, in the analog realm. 0VU is still 0VU, no matter how much digital headroom you have. So what you are talking about is still processing and not recording.

@zbyszekolko3998

Жыл бұрын

Not really. You do have additional headroom. Each A/D converter has its own preamp range. When it gets overdriven it does not contribute to built 32F word.

@RobDiesALot

Жыл бұрын

@@zbyszekolko3998 Yes, but in practical sense that is only true in a device that has BOTH preamps and converters. Single preamps only have a varying dynamic range of about 100dB. We are still converting analog signal to digital and thats where the video is a bit misleading.

@zbyszekolko3998

Жыл бұрын

@@RobDiesALot Well, A/Ds usually have some sort of preamp at input. You can also attenuate input signal to some ranges. Lot of 32F videos are misleading cause they explain 32F in digital enviroment. No unlimited headroom in 32F A/D converter built with multiple 24I A/Ds . It is physics not a digital abstract.

@RobDiesALot

Жыл бұрын

@@zbyszekolko3998 Not sure I get what you mean, but the original comment stands. In analog, where it all begins, distortion/hiss may still happen. 32-bit recording is only half of the equation. It doesnt matter in some devices, but generally the idea that 32-bit = no distortion or hiss is just wrong.

@zbyszekolko3998

Жыл бұрын

@@RobDiesALot Distortion happens when gain is set too high. Hiss happens when it is set too low. In case of NT1 you have four gain values outputted as 24 bit integer stream each which can be combined into one 32F stream while eliminating hissing or distorting ranges. In other words you have a voltometer with four ranges and you can measure each sample value with a range which gives you the best accuracy.

For the math-curious, the "float" concept is basically just scientific notation, such as 1.2345x10^-6, where most of the 32 bits are used to store the "mantissa" (1.2345..) and a few store the exponent (-6). This lets you represent a vast range of values without losing important details. What's novel and exciting (to me) is that Rode integrated an ultra-wide dynamic range 32-bit float A-to-D converter into the already lowest-noise-ever NT1 that should now allow you to capture the artist's eyes blinking from across the room. One might say it's a complete GAIN changer :D

@Cristian-DanielCalinescu

Жыл бұрын

What mic are you talking about? Is there a USB NT1?

@petea

Жыл бұрын

@@Cristian-DanielCalinescu Yes, the video is about NT1 "5th generation" which has an AD converter in the mic and usb-c jack

@gtabro1337

Жыл бұрын

These higher level math courses in university are finally paying off :) Jokes aside, thanks for the explanation.

@johnyang799

Жыл бұрын

It's pretty much impossible to have true 24bit resolution adc let alone 32bit (float or not).

@johnyang799

Жыл бұрын

It appears clever dsp is used to combine signal from different gain settings. The result can be very good however it can be done with 24bit as well. And I'm 99% sure the ADC won't have 126db snr and doesn't clear 21bit with the combination it can be close to 140db but not more than 24bit capabilities.

32 bits is really more like HDR photography based on muti exposure than Raw, it is about passing the sound through multiple amplifiers at different stage (just like HDR photography does with different levels of image exposure). Raw means no data compression, which is what wavefiles already are. So I dont think the analogy is the best here. Also, most DAW do make pre-render in 32 bits but can calculate at 64 bits precision.

@yasunakaikumi

Жыл бұрын

I mean the data itself is a pcm 32-bit float so it is uncompressed tho... so.... no data compression also.... You can, imagine the bit depth is the contrast (stop level) of the image, so 16bit = 4 stops, 24bit = 8stops, 32bit float = 14+stops

@XRaym

Жыл бұрын

@@yasunakaikumi I know what you mean but IMHO it is still less relevant because thannhe multistage nature of the audio recording/HDR photography.

@krzysztofbasinski915

Жыл бұрын

Exactly, was about to make the same comment. In photography, you can make an overexposed photo which is the same as clipping in audio. It is even called clipping in photography, as it refers to the same problem (running out of dynamic range). Storing an overexposed photo in a RAW format would not fix the problem (storing in JPEG would probably make it worse). Taking a HDR might fix the problem. I really don’t think this is how you should explain 32 bit recording as people may get the incorrect idea that somehow ordinary 24 bit wav is a compressed format (it isn’t). The tech presented here has more to do with how analog/digital conversion is handled and not with data compression.

@380stroker

Жыл бұрын

This isn't 32 bit integer recording. 32 bit float is still 24 bit integer with 8 bits for storing different info. Don't confuse 32 bit integer with 32 bit float. 2 totally different things.

@AlexLapugean

Жыл бұрын

@@380stroker Where do you get this from? 32 bit float is not at all 24 bit with "some storred info", all bits are used for data (samples), it's just a way of representing floating point numbers, in a scientiffic format (signifficant digits x base ^ exponent), where 32 bit integer is a classic binary representation (signed, 2's complement). The catch with 32 bit integer is that the values between min an max possible are normalized to -1 ro 1, so it is not possible to have values over 0dB, while you definatelly can in 32 bit floating point. Also, why even bring this up? Where have you seen interfaces that support 32 bit integer? Maybe there are some obscure ones, but I have never heard of one or see a pro engineer using one. What would even be the point, when it doesn't even address clipping?

Thank you Dan, learned a ton today. Sounds :-) like 32-bit float is a game changer. I’ll try and dig into this.

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Paul!

im back to 1990s 16/44 audio thank you very much

As a camera guy, the raw comparison was a perfect analogy. Thank you.

Thanks for this wonderful explainer video.👍

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

With “no-gain” approach, Rode could have launched a game-changing sound interface. Something in a CloudLifter form factor, which would have just just a single microphone preamp, single XLR-in and single USB-C-out. And a little 48V switch. You just insert this interface (itself, being in a body of oversized XLR plug) into the back of any XLR microphone, and your XLR microphone becomes an USB one, with 32bit capture.

@bolttracks

Жыл бұрын

Zoom just did that

@amyodov

Жыл бұрын

@@bolttracks , but what model? I may be missing something but I don't see "1 in/0 out" plug-format interfaces from Zoom. The closest I see is Shure's X2u... which is still "too much" for 32bit no-gain, with 3 volume controls while you could have 0.

@zbyszekolko3998

Жыл бұрын

Good idea but to match microphones with different sensitivities and max SPL handling some gain knob would be nice anyway.

@aldavidson1044

Жыл бұрын

What about monitoring?

@amyodov

Жыл бұрын

@@aldavidson1044, but do you really want to monitor anything (from a single microphone) but the gain level? (which you don't have to monitor anymore).

I think it's a good thing to have that option to fix things in post, but this doesn't change the recording process for me. I'm still going to adjust the gain on the proper level, since I'm on the job, I might as well do the job. It's just good to have that option later, if something unexpected happens.

Thank you so much!!! I was just looking for how to professionally record my JawHarp, it sounds so good, like saw bass with vibrato effects, this way i can play it live with beats coming from my LaunchPad, i will have pre recorded pieces and intros will be live👍🤝

is the gain knob obsolete or does it define how the preamp colors sounds ?

very nice choice of DAW to explain the video. I love reaper's workflow

This is amazing! 🔥🔥🔥🔥

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

Thanks! Glad you think so.

Using 32bit since 1O Years on Stagetec Consoles . Nothing new in professional circles , but realy good also for consumers because thats where the lack of knowledge leads to clipped or to quiet Audio. Especially for Camera Guys ,..... those need it the most.

@peerstelter929

Жыл бұрын

YES! and Stage Tec released it in 1996.... so not new at all :D We got it with the Aurus Console in 2002 :)

@AndrewSmith-ir1ui

Жыл бұрын

Ouch! 😂

I was hoping for a true objective explainer video, that will also mention downsides of 32-bit float. Like more work in post-production and file size. Completely failing to mention difference between gain staging a preamp and a digital file in DAW is also a bit disappointing. Hiss doesnt come from 24-bit, it comes from the preamp. 32-bit float is only game changing when you are working in a 100% digital world and thats okay. Its great for film makers for sure, because it allows for mistakes. But music studios will be recording in 24-bit for many years to come, even though our DAWs may be working in 32-bit world. I think most engineers understand the benefits, its just that dynamic range of 24-bits is absolutely enough for almost everything. And human ears like the sound of preamps driven to the edge, so we will always touch the gain there anyways. 32-bit is not superior, its just different and yes, its hard to understand because it cannot really be compared to video or images. But its a nice marketing video :)

@thetubaguy5853

Жыл бұрын

Thanks!! Was about to write this

Since I have been using zoom f6 last 3 years, and i go for 32 bit float everytime now and then . it's has become a new standard for me now. Press record and sleep, lol. Now in want this mic.

@xMaSSxHyST3RiA

Жыл бұрын

everytime or now and then? pick one lol

Very interesting!

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

It seems to me that indeed, 32 bit float does not magically remove any analog noise, but it does encourage designers to minimise that noise in the first place - it throws the focus back on to the very earliest points in the recording chain. So 32 bit float recording systems use multiple preamps and A/Ds, each optimised for a certain range of input level. That helps. And particular care will be taken over the design and implementation of any analog components before the actual preamps. A certain company whose name begins with "Z" has recently launched a one-piece stereo mic and integrated 32 bit float recorder. This seems to me to be an excellent approach because every part of the recording system, from the capsule to the SD card interface, can be optimised to integrate with every other part to the highest degree within the price point set of the device. The device I'm thinking of is actually pretty cheap, but for the money it sounds pretty damn good to me, because the designers have had to live up to the expectations that 32 bit float devices encourage. (Shame that a manufacturing issue caused it to immaculately record RF radio station breakthough too and they've had to recall it for the present... but once that's fixed, it could be a game changer in some sectors of the recording world). I look forward to RØDE producing something similar, but more upmarket, in due course!

Great video.

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

Thanks! Glad it was helpful.

Nice bit about 32-bit recording, now do you have any products that support this? I've been waiting for a 32-bit float capable Rodecaster Pro.

I think the stacked converters make this more like light stops in visual, therefore HDR not raw.

@georgwalt7978

Жыл бұрын

stacked converters is a thing since what 12 years?

@Bthelick

Жыл бұрын

@@georgwalt7978 oh really didn't know that. I thought it was just stacked filters

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

HDR is also a good analogy, yes. Like all analogies, they are never perfect, but help to illustrate the principles and use. We used the RAW analogy as we thought more people would be familiar with RAW than HDR, but the HDR analogy is also a great way to explain 32 bit float. Thanks for the comment!

@user-ok8xx8wf2c

Жыл бұрын

@@Bthelick Actually HDR is when you use HDR-monitors for playback. This is closer to dual-gain sensor feature in the video world. The difference is you can catch several staged convereters and record them all simultaneously, which you can't do with a camera.

@Bthelick

Жыл бұрын

@@user-ok8xx8wf2c yeah I mean in the sense that it's like how HDR is a composite of different light stop ranges for "High Dynamic Range" right? High dynamic range being the direct equivalent of compositing several converters to achieve high dynamic range in the audio space.

Are there any (portable) audio intrfaces for the homestudio that can record at 32-bit float?

Can you say please what the preamp type for each A/D converter is? Are they class A or A/B?

This would be more useful if Røde could make a capsule that can take eq well, or one with a somewhat flat frequency response. Besides, 32-bit float recording isn’t very useful if you take the time to gain-stage properly.

@Nathan_Woodruff

Жыл бұрын

True, I don't expect this tech to be coming to digital mixing consoles anytime soon for that reason. Generally not a great tradeoff for people who already know how to gain stage well. Maybe we'd see it if manufacturers could cut costs by combining multiple high noise preamps instead of having one ultra low noise preamp, for example. Idk. That being said, I think the tech is pretty useful for field recorders and camera mics which might encounter a huge and unpredictable dynamic range. In those cases it can be much harder to set a good gain. Maybe it could help cell phone recordings as well.

how long will we see the double-precision floating point?

awesome. this podcast should be called "Rode Head"

As I'm creating my homestudio for my voiceover work (so not at all a sound ingenier or anything approaching), my question would be : what kind of audio interface we will need to have benefit from 32 bit float mic ?

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

For this mic, you don't need an Interface to use it with 32-Bit float recording over USB!

How do you handle proper monitoring of a performance recording using these methods?

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

Hey George, here's a bit more on monitoring: rode.com/en/user-guides/nt1-5th-generation#:~:text=Using%20the%20NT1%205th%20Generation%20with%20Your%20Audio%20Software

Hey how to record with backing tracks(usb mode), as this mic doesn't have headphone jack.??🤔 Does it have any direct monitoring system somehow??? Thnx 😃

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

Hey you can find out more about monitoring with your favourite DAW in the User Guide here: rode.com/en/user-guides/nt1-5th-generation#:~:text=Using%20the%20NT1%205th%20Generation%20with%20Your%20Audio%20Software

If there is a bit of hiss noise from a fen nearby the microphone at the momet of recording, turning up the gain should make it disappear?

So... is there capacity / plan to upgrade the CasterPro II to 32 bit float then? When? Also, it seems you have not been responding diligently to an update which has made the mix minus function unpredictable and unreliable. When will you fix this?

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

Hey Bart, you'll have to wait and see! If you need a hand with setting up your output mixes we’d recommend getting in touch with our Service Team at: rode.com/contact

@Professor-Bart-Kay-Nutrition

Жыл бұрын

@@rodemic This is a VERY poor response. Very poor indeed. Answer the questions.

If I record in 32 bit format, then in the daw after the recording when I need to increase the volume in the low volume parts, wouldn't the noise also increase? The bit format is related to the process of anolog to digital conversión. While highest is the number of bits you are using more precise is the conversión. I dont understand what is the relation between the bit depth and the dynamic range

@user-ok8xx8wf2c

Жыл бұрын

The NT1 5th Generation uses four stacked 24 bit convertors. Their output is combined in an on-board DSP to create a true 32 bit float output that exceeds the performance of any individual convertor.

@user-ok8xx8wf2c

Жыл бұрын

Bro, you need to watch the 2nd part of the video to get this right.

@Nathan_Woodruff

Жыл бұрын

The relationship is that the 32-bit float format is needed to store the full dynamic range of the stacked converter setup

Is a Rode Wireless Go III with 32 bit float in the works?

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

Not presently, but you never know what the future holds! 🤷

When are you guys making a rode wireless go III with 32bit i would buy that.

There’s still a quantization amount even in that adc configuration though. What is it?

Any recommendations for interfaces that could record 32 bit? I couldn't find any yet. Only one I heard could do this was MixPre from Sound Devices

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

Hey Michael, we don’t make any interfaces/recorders that record in 32-bit float at this stage, but there are a few out there on the market!

@75ajw

Жыл бұрын

Not sure where Zoom are at with this, yet, regarding passing live audio at 32bit from F-series recorder to computer over USB.

Any chance the 32 bit float option will ever work on the Go 2?

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

Not at this stage, but we can pass on the request!

Awesome review. I'm however wondering how you would use the USB in a 32bit recording in pro tools for example when overdubbing. I mean how would you handle the monitoring roles for the headphones for example? Thanks

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

You can learn more about monitoring with the NT1 5th Generation here: rode.com/en/user-guides/nt1-5th-generation#:~:text=Using%20the%20NT1%205th%20Generation%20with%20Your%20Audio%20Software

..almost forgetting an important point, normally a Daw uses an ASIO driver (for low latency in recording) with ONE audio interface, not multiclient, but in this situation this mic haven't an headphones output for monitoring while tracking, so I suppose it has a Rode Asio multiclient driver wich get possible to set the output of an audio interface while using Rode NT1 5th gen as input interface, right ? No issues with Daw compatibility and low latency at 48kHz with a medium cpu and soundcard ? Thanks again, have a nice day !

Do Rode make any 32 bit float devices or mics? It'd be amazing to have that capacity built in to a self powered mic.

@DalmaTon-Records

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, their new RODE NT1 5th Generation microphone is capable of digital 32-bit float recording through USB and also has the option of standard XLR connection ... Cheers!

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

What they said!

So what recorder do you need to do 32 bit float?

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

There are a few different ones on the market, but we'd recommend using the NT1 5th Gen which can do this via USB when connected to compatible DAW

Great work, guys! I have a question. I want to recommend the Rode NT1 5th Gen to a friend of mine who is constantly clipping on Discord due to him using a Blue Yeti. Would this microphone help solve that? Or is my friend just a lost cause? 🤣

@topdazzle

Жыл бұрын

If he's constantly clipping then his gain is too high - you don't need 32 bit to set your gain correctly, it just makes it less important.

@georgwalt7978

Жыл бұрын

he will clip with the rode as well then

@topdazzle

Жыл бұрын

@@georgwalt7978 Unlikely if he is either using the USB connection and capturing in 32 bit or using the XLR connection into a 32 bit recorder and recording at 32 bit (the latter is true of any mic, the former - not).

@bmoklsc

Жыл бұрын

No, he’ll still clip on Discord because audio is going straight to “broadcast.” If he was recording to a DAW, he could correct it in post, but that doesn’t happen with live-streaming.

@topdazzle

Жыл бұрын

@@bmoklsc yes - you’re correct. Clipped audio at 32 bit will need post processing to tame the clips and not possible if you are live streaming.

So if I record in 32 and capture all kinds of clipping, I can somehow make the clipping disappear?

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

Yep, you can fix it in post-production.

isnt the noise floor of the electronics constant (if i would use a 32bit float audio interface)? so if i boost the audio in post i also increase that noise floor anyway? isnt 24bit enought with 144dB because the mic can handle noise till 120db anyway?? do you know an audio interface with 32 bit float and a noise floor similar to the mic?

@concernedcitizen3254

Жыл бұрын

It seems like the quiet signals are recorded at what would have been a different gain stage then mixed back in with the final signal, so any noise would be very very quiet.

@youareliedtobythemedia

Жыл бұрын

​@@concernedcitizen3254 there wouldn't be any difference. It's just a signal recorded at multiple gain levels, so you can choose the correct one later

@Nathan_Woodruff

Жыл бұрын

Depends on which electronics you're talking about. The preamp stacking thing basically eliminates the preamp noise, but you'd still have the mic's self-noise. Depending on the mic and interface it could be a substantial improvement though

@youareliedtobythemedia

Жыл бұрын

@@Nathan_Woodruff how exactly does preamp stacking eliminate noise?

@musicproductionbrauns2594

Жыл бұрын

@@youareliedtobythemedia maybe the noise is so low in relation to the dynamic range that even if you turn the volume up like 120db the noise is still down there , I don't know 😂 the noise as loud as the quietest stack I think

So there is a digital and a analog output?

Does your camera have to have 32 bit float capability for it to be recorded in camera? Seems like you will always have to sync in post.

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

To use the NT1 5th Generation to record the 32-bit float, you will either need to use it via XLR with a 32-bit float compatible recorder or over USB into a DAW capable of recording in 32-bit float

So my road caster pro is recording in 32bit? Or only new equipment still to come?

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

You'll have to wait and see ☺️

What is the equipamento used in 3:06 ???

So, if you are recording and you cant hear yourself because the gain is too low, just record it anyway and fix it later? Turn down everything else and turn up the monitoring output? am I missing something?

@Nathan_Woodruff

Жыл бұрын

You'd turn it up in your daw using trim/volume/utility plugin while you're recording

Finally. I've been wondering why that hadn't happened yet

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

Great things take time 🙌

@BellXllebMusic

Жыл бұрын

@@rodemic 64 bit when? XD

I've had noisy recordings in 32 bits when recorded with little gain. The noise floor seems to be a problem still.

@paulisaacs5980

Жыл бұрын

Yes, the noise problem will still exist if your mic preamps are inherently noisy. That's why you should use something like the Sound Devices MixPres which have noise floor (EIN) below -130 dBu.

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

Shouldn't be a problem for the ultra-quiet NT1 5th Generation 😏

@erinburke9711

Жыл бұрын

You're probably referring to 32-bit integer devices.

I wonder if cinema cameras will one day record in a series of base ISO's simultaneously, so the raw footage has a dynamic range of something like 30 stops.

Something to bear in mind with floating point addition is that it is not associative, that is, a+(b+c) needn't equal (a+b)+c. In audio signal terms: if I have two signals, X and Y, and phase invert X to get -X, then if I first add the samples from X and -X before adding Y, then the sum becomes 0+Y=Y. If, on the other hand, I add X to Y first, and then add -X, I don't get Y, but rather a bit-reduced version of Y. (I'm not sure how relevant this actual is to audio production, mind you, just something that comes to mind when I think about how float's are represented in binary -- if all the signals being summed are substantially different, then this is unlikely to matter that much.)

@giulioboobzilla

Жыл бұрын

?

@Nathan_Woodruff

Жыл бұрын

The term for that is quantization noise, if I'm not mistaken. It effectively generates the noise floor in digital audio through those rounding errors, so the whole point of increasing the bit depth is to reduce those errors.

What happens if I feed my interface a 220V signal, will it clip then?

I remember when we got Cubase vst32 in the late 90s. Game changer.

@georgwalt7978

Жыл бұрын

cubase audio xt 3.05 on a pro tools III nubus rig still sounds better than todays cubase

@Bthelick

Жыл бұрын

@@georgwalt7978 pro tools 3 was tied to hardware though right?

@giulioboobzilla

Жыл бұрын

@@georgwalt7978 what’s Cubase xt 3.05?

One thing I don't understand is what the step range is defined as? Sure 32bit can do 1500db of whatever but wouldn't it be more useful to have maybe 200dB but be able to have steps of 0.0000001 db instead of like 0.001db?

@paulboregard4056

Жыл бұрын

With 32bit float the stepping isnt that straightforward. It varies as you increase or decrease your exponent in the float represented number. The 1500db means the ratio between the highest and lowest reprentable number with 32bit float. The biggest representable number is 1529db or 2,89480312E+76 (linear scale) times bigger than lowest representable number. The stepping you think of is not connected to this db information.

@erinburke9711

Жыл бұрын

32-bit FP resolution is on par with 24-bit integer

@forbiddenera

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I totally didn't think too hard about the float part; go figure, I've been coding for over 30 years lmao 🤣 😂

I have a follow up questions then. How is it that there aren't any interfaces already using this? (Only Steinberg seems to offer 32 bit but it is integer instead of float.) I have seen plenty of handheld recorders now. But actual professional interface are all still 24 bit. Is there a reason why?

@LukeEsther

Жыл бұрын

24 bit is in most cases sufficient, as long as you aren't clipping (and auto-gain levelling or setting the gain conservatively will avoid clipping). You can turn down the gain significantly, have plenty of headroom, and still have a ultra-low noise floor with 24 bit. There hasn't really been a good reason to jump to 32 bit in most devices.

@Ozpeter

Жыл бұрын

@@LukeEsther Sound Devices MixPre-3 II can be used as a 32 bit float audio interface to USB. It's been out for a while. There may well be others.

@arminfatol

Жыл бұрын

@@Ozpeter Do you know if that kind of devices could be usesd in a recording studio, recording vocals? Not sure if they have ASIO drivers and if the singer caould monitor the instrumental in real time, while hearing his voice also in the headphones. I am thinking of upgrading my audio interface with a Sound Devices device so I could use it also for high quality field recordings.

@Ozpeter

Жыл бұрын

@@arminfatol I have no direct knowledge of the capabilities of such device in that context, so it would be improper for me to take a guess, given that you are making a purchasing decision! I'd suggest getting in touch with Sound Devices via their website and putting the question to them direct. Good luck with your project!

It's not that "not needing to set the gain to get a good recording" confuses me. It's all the other things I need to interface with and distribute audio to during a recording. Much more, how would this apply to live sound? Does the entire studio need to be "32 bit compatible"?

@Aldsomegaming

Жыл бұрын

I thinks so. Cuz if u are already or have already recorded at 24, then u cannot "upscale" or reacquire the lost information. However I also wonder if most modern mics are alrrady 32bt ready, cuz if not, then it's useless. Frm what I thi k this video is basically saying to record at its highest possible quality so u don't get downgraded upon post prod. But i know there is more to it than what I just said. He is more in depth abt the 32bt depth thingy

@Klblaz

Жыл бұрын

@@Aldsomegaming It's not about 24bit vs 32bit, it's all about a completely different way of representing digital audio. You could have 24-bit float with same benefits, but 32-bit floating point is a well established standard in computing.

@andrefylling5457

Жыл бұрын

Totally assuming your pres are digital, right!? .. any of the analog gear going in will definitely want to be in its sweet spot

@Nathan_Woodruff

Жыл бұрын

The technology is solely on the audio interface, not the mic itself. It's all about the preamps and the converters. In this case, the mic shown has an entire usb audio interface inside of it doing the processing, which confuses things. There will eventually be standalone audio interfaces created with this technology, which will work with any mic. Same with digital mixing desks theoretically, though I imagine it would be extremely expensive, and not necessary for most live sound use cases.

If they can do this with the next version of Wireless Go's that would be sweeeeeeeet

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

😏

@ChaoticMatters

Жыл бұрын

@@rodemic NO WAY!!!!!! So hard to get the gain right on them lol

So as long as you have a strong computer and plenty of hard drive space clipping is a thing of the past👍🏽😁

i dont get how compressing the 96bit int output of the 4 adcs to 32bit float has anything to do with raw capture

6:05 is that a power cord in an XLR input

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

It's dual connection - USB and XLR in one housing

I thought that the higher the bit depth, the more exact the sampled instantaneous voltage will be. Am I wrong?

does it work with any DAW?

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

The majority of professional DAWs will support 32-Bit Float, yes!

I will wait till Audio Science Review gives their verdict on this.

How is the sound quality of 32bit float compared to 24bit fixed? I dont understand the technology yet. It doesnt have noise floor? I dont care about avoiding clipping but i care about sound quality

@xMaSSxHyST3RiA

Жыл бұрын

You care about sound quality but not about clipping?? Read that statement out loud to yourself bro!

@topdazzle

Жыл бұрын

It is just capturing a wider dynamic range between the loudest sounds and the quietest with different A/D converters for each (4 in total) meaning that when you raise the gain after capture, you are not also raising the noise floor (as you do with a non-32 bit capture). The sound quality on this is meant to be superb, Curtis Judd claims that to him, this sounds better than his $3,000 Neuman U87 (although that is, of course, very subjective). Rode claim it is the quietest studio mic in the wold (in terms of its noise floor / self-noise). A 4db(A) noise floor is certainly very impressive, as is a 144db SPL maximum handling (for very loud sounds).

@benderocks788

Жыл бұрын

@@xMaSSxHyST3RiA 😆

@erinburke9711

Жыл бұрын

​@@xMaSSxHyST3RiA They're obviously saying they don't have a problem running into clipping because they don't record hot.

@xMaSSxHyST3RiA

Жыл бұрын

@@erinburke9711 Is it obvious? or are you just obviously assuming lol not sure where ya got that lol 🤣🤣

So what you are saying is that 32bit float recording eliminates noise? I get that it would eliminate clipping, but the noise is the biggest issue I’ve found in recording. Mic noise, preamp noise, noise of interference, noise of power/bad grounding, etc. there’s no way to fully eliminate noise in my experience. I’m curious how 32 would do this. It would eliminate clipping yes, but i doubt noise.

@concernedcitizen3254

Жыл бұрын

He probably means circuit noise, not background noise.

@CreativeMindsAudio

Жыл бұрын

@@concernedcitizen3254 I mean yeah, i'm talking about that too. mic circuit noise will still exist. granted it's often lower than other things, but i guess taking out preamp noise is a good thing? but sometimes preamps can be very musical (api/neve for ex), but i guess we got emulations of all that in the box these days. A future with easy recordings could be cool, but also render a LOT of jobs obsolete... then again it kinda already has taken most engineers out of the picture (like myself).

@youareliedtobythemedia

Жыл бұрын

It just records the signal at different gain settings and combines them into a single number automatically. It doesn't change anything about noise at all.

@CreativeMindsAudio

Жыл бұрын

@@youareliedtobythemedia oh totally! Just weird claims by rode.

@Nathan_Woodruff

Жыл бұрын

The technology is in the audio interface, and effectively eliminates preamp noise and clipping by stacking and combining preamps at different gain settings. This allows you to get recordings which are limited purely by the dynamic range/noise of the mic instead of the audio interface.

Will 32bit come to wireless go mics?

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

You'll have to wait and see!

we are believing here that the win stage is not important. For me it is important to have control of my gain knob. Decisions for a good recording start with the microphone and the preamplifier.

What's the ENOB?

I'm curious how you get 32-bit float recording from multiple microphones. Having e.g. 10 of these all connected via USB is surely going to cause bus contention, and if you connect by XLR, I presume you don't get the 32-bit float recording. I'm hoping patents don't get in the way of interfaces in general adopting 32-bit recording on their analogue inputs.

@oleklabisch644

Жыл бұрын

dont worry. Float is a completely digital thing that happens in the interface, nothing to do with the xlr. The only problem you theoretically could encounter is the max data transfer rate of your connection. Which for usb 3.2 is ~20Gbit/s. So if you are recording at 48k/24b you can theoretically still record 149.130 seperate mics at the same time. Yes i just spent 5 minutes calculating that...

@JasonTaylor-po5xc

Жыл бұрын

You need an interface capable of recording in 32-bit float - but very few support this. The Zoom F6, F3, F2 and their new USB interface do. Sound Devices Mix Pre series support it too. There are a handful of other options too. I'm not aware of any interfaces from Rode that support 32-bit float just yet. I'd love a RodeCaster Pro with that feature.

@oleklabisch644

Жыл бұрын

@@JasonTaylor-po5xc you actually dont, since the "32" bit are created after the conversion to digital. My focusrite solo could even do 64fp in Reaper. My SSL12 can also record in 32PCM. Just recalling the video, its really poorly and explained and doesnt go into why its 32 and whats floating point xD

@JasonTaylor-po5xc

Жыл бұрын

@@oleklabisch644 Depends how you are capturing the audio signal from your interface. If using the USB interface, then you are limited by the A/D conversion of your equipment. SSLv2+ supports only 24-bit that way. Reaper might say you are recording in 32 or even 64 float, but you aren't actually capturing all that information. It's like ripping a CD into 96k WAV. Sure, the software will let you do it, but it won't result in better quality. But, there should be an easy way to test - just record your mic hot (clipping) - then see if you can recover from that clipping in Reaper. I'll test my SSLv2+ vs my F6 and let you know my results.

@oleklabisch644

Жыл бұрын

​@@JasonTaylor-po5xc No it doesnt depend, because we are talking about a DIGITAL topic, so you WILL need an interface regardless. The 32bit fp works differentlyy than the 24bit pcm. The 32 bit are used in a manner, that its not usable by us humans, but rather for computation. Its encoded in a mantissa with a length of 32. Mantissa use floating points (FP). thats why the increase of usable dynamic range is not constant to the increase from 16pcm to 24pcm. Its, nowadays, software dependant if your interface can do it. Coming back to the fidelity point: 32 float does not make any sense in that regard, since its ~650dB of dynamic range you will never hear lol. PS: SSL 12 (twelve!) does also have 32 bit pcm

But it doesn't solve electronic noise, or does it? So if somebody makes very quiet noises you still have "bleed" from electromagnetic noise sources, no?

You can do the same thing with integers as well. Cameras use integers and NOT float when recording RAW footage. Seems like the marketing team is running this presentation who and want to jump the 32bit float hype train. A better analogy would be that you're recording the audio with multiple microphones from the exact same position with different gain settings. Then you can choose the recording with the best signal to noise ration after.

Do you need a special microphone to get capture 32-bit float ? Seems like a logical question that was totally ignored.

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

You need a 32-bit float capable mic such as the NT1 5th Generation or a 32-bit float capable recording device.

@schultzeworks

Жыл бұрын

@@rodemic Thanks for the info! That was my assumption, but it was VERY strange no one mentioned it anywhere. Future videos might want to have a “what you’ll need” section. I guess you guys are so close to the material that all of these critical details seem ‘obvious,’ but some basic testing would have identified this. 👍

Don’t you still need to set good levels in the analog domain?

@Nathan_Woodruff

Жыл бұрын

"good" levels are defined by how much clipping or noise you have in your signal. If at a single gain setting a whisper can be heard clearly above the preamp noise, and a train horn can be recorded without clipping, then there's no point in changing the levels, at least at the recording stage.

@erinburke9711

Жыл бұрын

That's somewhat taken care of for you. Multiple gain levels are fed into separate AD converters. It's kinda like recording at +0, +15, +30, +45 dB then picking the best take in terms of distortion and noise.

Is there any possibility that the next-generation audio interfaces will record in 32-bit float? That way, people can use all their mics in 32-bit, not just an NT-1 5th-gen.

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

😏😏

@Ozpeter

Жыл бұрын

They have been available for some time. Sound Devices MixPre-3 II for instance.

@erinburke9711

Жыл бұрын

Zoom UAC-232 leading the way. I'm sure there will be better options soon too.

So this is more like HDR photos where you take the picture at multiple exposure levels and later smash the range back down to something the display/printer can show.

Cool, so make a RODE Go III?

@dannyelfilms

Жыл бұрын

Yes a Rode Wireless Go III with 32 bit float

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

Imagine...

@BikeStuffPDX

Жыл бұрын

@@rodemic Would love to test it you have working model ;)

@AnthonyMoreschi

Жыл бұрын

@@rodemic imagine if it worked on the Go 2 like it’s supposed to?! How about a firmware update that doesn’t break the GO 2?!

Why do I feel like the commentator is talking to me like I am a googoogaga baby

The interface has to have this for this to work. You can 100 percent clip every pre amp in every interface ever made.

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

This isn't the case with a properly configured 32-bit float system, we'd recommend checking out how this works on the NT1 5th Generation while connected to USB: kzread.info/dash/bejne/Z6SNmKeQZKveYso.html

@ChazzRavenelle

Жыл бұрын

32bit only works when using the mic's USB A/D converter.

@topdazzle

Жыл бұрын

It only works in USB mode on this mic, not XLR - therefore you don't need an interface, it just plugs into your laptop directly. If you go XLR into your interface then it is not capturing at 32 bit and you can still clip unless your recording device is capable of 32 bit - in that case, any mic will do.

@noahf7824

Жыл бұрын

u right, with ur 4 subscribers. lmao

@whosyabobby

Жыл бұрын

@@noahf7824 Not that that has anything to do with what I said or make it any less true, this is my throwaway account.

How do I update my my Rode NT1 for this mode😭

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

Here's a link! rode.com/en/microphones/studio-condenser/nt1-5th-generation 😅

Who makes a 32 bit digital front end though?

People still don't understand the difference between 32 bit integer and 32 bit float. 2 totally different things.

I think the comparison with RAW Video is not correct. Even when shooting RAW you have to heavily adjust your camera: ISO, aperture, shutter speed - and that's because the sensor has a limited dynamic range. But I propose the microphone also has, even while it's analogue gear.

@user-ok8xx8wf2c

Жыл бұрын

Yes it is partly irrelevant, but ppl understand it better this way. Not everyone knows what is the stacked exposure in photo.

If this is true. We could eliminate the need for preamps. Hypothetically we could plug a mic directly to the ‘input’ of the interface and then adjust accordingly.

quick question. if 1dB is the lower threshold of hearing and 130dB is the upper threshold of pain, why would anyone need more than 144dB of dynamic range?

@BellXllebMusic

Жыл бұрын

To record extreme loud noises without clipping

@theNitefly

Жыл бұрын

@@BellXllebMusic the max spl of that mic is stated to be 132 dB. Anything louder than that will distort or break the mic's capsule. if you fix the gain on the mic such that 132dB SPL converts to 0dBfs that still gives you enough resolution on the low end to record audio that is too quiet to hear.

The performance of this microphone has much more to do with the fact that it uses four preamps and four ADCs in parallel and then switches between them for the final output, rather than the fact that the final output happens to be in 32-bit floating point.

@RobDiesALot

Жыл бұрын

Yes! It drives me mad when brands are oversimplifying for the sake of marketing lol.

@zbyszekolko3998

Жыл бұрын

The advantage of making 24 bit output out of four 24bit ADCs is minimal. The whole trick is to aggregate more complex word.

@RobDiesALot

Жыл бұрын

@@zbyszekolko3998 Yes, if you are already doing 4 preamps, why not include 4 ADCs and output in 32-bit float. But the practical benefit doesnt come from the bit depth itself in the first place, its in combination the PREs. Thats where the video is misleading.

@AlexLapugean

Жыл бұрын

@@RobDiesALot It's not ONLY because of the 32 bit output but you need the bit depth, it doesn't work otherwise. The fact that there are 4 pres and ADs, is only a design choice based on the limitation on each pre/AD, what dynamic range they can individually capture to be more precise. So really, the 32 bit is the important thing, why does it matter exactly how you get that headroom prom practival point of view? So what is misleading?

@AlexLapugean

Жыл бұрын

No, the performance of this microfone has to do very much with the 32 bit output. WIthout it, the 4 pres/ADC, wouldn't do anything (maybe if recorded as 4 different streams that you would manually need to blend, but that is just stupid). The entire point of the 4 pre/ADC stage is to each capture a different part of the sensitivity range, that is then merged to a higher dynamic range than any of the individual pre/AD is capable of. A good analogy is how bracketing in photography works, you take multiple pictures at different exposures, then merge them to a HDR image that contains both the shadow and highlight details, that the camera is not able to see at the same time in a single picture, due to sensor limitations. So the only reason you need those 4 parallel chains is the current limitations on the dynamic range that is able to be captures by a single one. But with better technology, you might only need 3 ... 2 or even a single one in the future, what remains the same and the important thing IS the 32 bit output and its corresponding dynamic range.

3:03 That is sø bad it's nearly a visual dad joke 😆

I'd like a wireless go that has this please.

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

We'll pass on the request!

Hmmm IMHO some glitches: - DAWs today use 64 bit float rather than 32 bit float. - when captured in float format, even in the DAW (as using Floating Point for processing) clipping is not possible.Hence it in fact is not strictly necessary to bother about gain at all. While of course a kind of gain staging makes sense to improve optical representation of the signals, and to improve the working of certain dynamic and nonlinear effects.

@Nathan_Woodruff

Жыл бұрын

When recording audio, the clipping and noise issues happen before the daw at the preamp or converters in the audio interface, so it's still important to set your gain right regardless of your DAW's working bit depth. The idea of the video is that the stacked preamps would allow the interface to have such a wide dynamic range that a single gain setting could capture a large variety of sound levels without getting any preamp noise or clipping. Such a large dynamic range would supposedly exceed the dynamic range of the 24-bit format, necessitating the change to 32-bit on the interface level.

What's the dynamic range of this then? We talking thousands?

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

The dynamic range of 32-bit float audio is 1528 dB

@moana-gamba

Жыл бұрын

@@rodemic and what’s the average dynamic range in the audio industrie ? Let say in music industry.

But you also have to keep in mind that these „stacked gain and A/D stages“ also increase your THD.

32 bit float has been a thing in Ableton live for a long time now

@allyemeraart

Жыл бұрын

32 bit float in a daw for processing has been around for a minute, but not actual hardware that can support it fundamentally.

@ThaexakaMavro

Жыл бұрын

@@allyemeraart 10years+

@giulioboobzilla

Жыл бұрын

Cubase SX already had it - that’s over 20 years ago

no matter what. I cannot just not use UAD LA610 Mk II Pre for Gain Staging. Those ceramic hardware preamps are one of the best possible things that can happen with an input signal.

how big is this file ?

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

We did a test in this video: kzread.info/dash/bejne/Z6SNmKeQZKveYso.html and you can actually download one of our test files here: kzread.info?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbVFGZUsyMEFrM2RKdU1ERjFpTE45VG1zVHNnZ3xBQ3Jtc0trY0hNaVhzekVKUHgyaVg4NW5CVk02MGpSdEozOWhNS2FyTzNnLU1FSFZWdUpjbDFHUWF6WnZ3c29DWEtsZ0lpV0x0R2JKcHFrQ29ublRhbjVxZGpMSEtiSGRFREFJb2l1d3RxM3pFYVpIN1doY2t3cw&q=https%3A%2F%2Fedge.rode.com%2Fzip%2Fpage%2F2125%2Fmodules%2F7661%2F32-bit-float-example.zip&v=5pY6EW4Hx2g

@Nathan_Woodruff

Жыл бұрын

32-bit is short for 32 bits per sample. The file size directly corresponds with this number, so you can just do 32/24 = 1.33, so 33% larger than 24-bit. This only applies to uncompressed formats like wav

6:05 what did you just plug it to?!

@rodemic

Жыл бұрын

That would be the dual connect plug of the NT1 5th Generation 😅