I am _flabbergasted_ by how elegant a solution this is. Downright _gobsmacked,_ positively _agog._ Damn, this is going to change things!

@ronvanwegen

3 күн бұрын

Internet Award for the use of the word "agog". After both "flabbergasted" and "gobsmacked" it was entirely unexpected. Well done!

@LeesChannel

3 күн бұрын

Someone's been having a little too much fun in their thesaurus

@SonnyDarvishzadeh

3 күн бұрын

Well, as impressive as I am with the tech, this comment gets the win 🥇

@mandrakejake

3 күн бұрын

But you lose the ability to use the conventional rear brake. A bit of a downside to this system.

@key39075

3 күн бұрын

​@@mandrakejake Yes not huge one considering saved brake pads, but anyway, we just cannot lock the rear wheel?

This is absolutely brilliant, simple and elegant. An absolute game changer. I've been building and modifying geared hub motors for about 17 years, and I'm annoyed I didn't think of it- and it's a perfect example of how powerful it is to believe that a beautiful and elegant solution exists somewhere in design space, and if you look hard enough you'll find it. Everything has not been invented.

@GrinTechnologies

3 күн бұрын

Exactly, those original gems may be harder to find but they are still out there waiting for someone to see the light in just the right way. What's coolest is that Alon had never even seen a ridden a geared hub motor before coming up with this, let alone opened and serviced one. It's like being an outsider to the space was almost an advantage.

@AlonGoldman-ChargeBike

2 күн бұрын

This is really touching, thanks ❤

@nc3826

2 күн бұрын

I thank all the legacy ebike innovators, such as Grin Technologies. But it often takes an ignorance of what can't be done (IE a fresh pair of eyes), to make truly breakthrough innovations.... Thank you, Alon Goldman @ChargeBike. And thx to Justin @Grin Technologies for recognizing its game changing nature and for helping to bring it to a production stage of development. I look forward to seeing it developed in a myriad of ebike applications.

@Michael_Charge

18 сағат бұрын

Thanks, @therhubarb, it is touching to finally meet the people who understand the beauty of it, as we do.

If you don't know, you don't know. If you do know and understand, this is truly epic in its simplicity and its genius, not to mention it is something we want and need!

@Cineenvenordquist

3 күн бұрын

Nah, I haven't much seen the build or gear durability etc.

@andretokayuk8100

2 күн бұрын

Would have been invented in 'murica if the tax slave colony wasn't so enslavy!

@sammiller6631

2 күн бұрын

@@Cineenvenordquist Grin has nearly 20 years of e-bike design, testing and sales. Their build quality is top tier. You pay more for Canadian durability.

@sammiller6631

2 күн бұрын

@@andretokayuk8100 Why would it be invented in America?

@andretokayuk8100

2 күн бұрын

@@sammiller6631 moot point at this point.. this cuntree stifles innovations these days.. just like it suffocates it's tax slaves under the weight of our corpulent "government" tapeworms.

Smart idea, particularly for cargo bikes! I guess you could always fit an additional V-Brake if ever needed. Well Done!

Congratulations everyone. Can't wait to see this project move forward. And would love to see more videos on this.

At 77 and been involved with several start-ups, all I can say is you have a REAL WINNER on your hands and you will have no problem finding the funding for your project. My only problem, I see, is the plastic gears. DON'T USE THEM !

@sammiller6631

2 күн бұрын

Metal gears in ebike motors are annoying loud. Why use them?

@bigshnitzeljesse

2 күн бұрын

​@sammiller6631 at 77, he might be thinking plastic is Bakelite?

@johnbb99

2 күн бұрын

@@sammiller6631 I'd take a lot of convincing that plastic gears would be strong enough. (You know that any cordless drill that's desighed to last has metal, not plastic gears, don't you?)

@sammiller6631

2 күн бұрын

@@johnbb99 Do cordless drills have the same torque levels as e-bikes? Or do bicycles spin at much slower rates than drills?

@sammiller6631

2 күн бұрын

@@bigshnitzeljesse The world has come a long way since Bakelite.

For people like me who are cyclists who also love electrified things (bikes/scooters/cars), it is downright ASTOUNDING how beneficial (and surprisingly simple) this new invention is. Best of both worlds with freewheeling eliminating motor drag, but we still get regen braking - Amazing!!!

This is brilliant! Couple this with a supercapacitor to absorb and release the regen energy efficiently (batteries are a bit sluggish in this respect) and you can significantly reduce the battery size as well!

@steveurbach3093

3 күн бұрын

Or, at least, retain the energy long enough to be absorbed. 👍

@4nlimited3dition_4n3d

2 күн бұрын

Even huge supercaps are no match for basic li-ion batteries in terms of actual capacity. And now with modern 21700 cells (a single cell) handling 200A pulse currents I see no problem doing even high power regen with a tiny 10S 1P battery.

@bigshnitzeljesse

2 күн бұрын

As another mentioned, supercapacitors don't hold much energy for size/weight practicality on bikes. Some batteries charge incredibly fast now.

This will revolutionize. Glad to be alive to see this happen.

This is fucking phenomenal. Nothing is this elegant

This will be a great product once people understand it. I have a geared GMAC for better low speed torque, with locked clutch version for regen. The regen braking has been great, but I do feel the drag the rest of the time pedaling at higher cruising speeds. The quality of Grin products is top notch. Adding Freegen would be amazing. The smaller diameter and lighter Shengyi, combined with just 200-300 Wh of Ligo+ would be perfect for gravel and road bikes, adding just about 5kg. I just want a ultralight setup to get me up hills and regen brake, without the weight of most ebikes.

@jpsuperstar

4 күн бұрын

I thought it was possible to have the motor controller trickle current to the hub to eliminate the sensation of drag, or do you still have some feedback?

@stephen_chan

4 күн бұрын

@@jpsuperstar Yes, but I haven't tried because I don't want to use the few watts of power to eliminate the drag, which seems more with gear hub. I'm pedaling 95% of the time, with motor only for hills and quick passes, and a tiny 360Wh battery. I have a knobby mountain bike tires and accepted the drag as a workout. Freegen seems like the simpler and ideal solution, especially for the road and gravel bikes.

@Michael_Charge

3 күн бұрын

@@jpsuperstar Hey guys. It's not only the efficiency issue- it's HOW you use the brakes that is also a gamechanger- until now, if you were using the current Grin regen products, you'd have to work the braking yourself, meaning you have to apply the throttle to set the braking amount, and you also have to pay attention not to press hard on the brakes because if you pass the point of engagement, the braking would be mechanical. You need to keep it just so that the on/off sensor detected it but it's not working yet (same as lightly touching the brake pedal in your car and the brake light would turn on even before an actual force point has been reached). With our solution, you simply brake NORMALLY. No extra buttons, sensors or getting used to a specific method. And in all cases, you'd get the (nearly) optimum possible regen

@ofersaraf

3 күн бұрын

​@@Michael_Charge very cool ! ;)

the revenge of the hub motor. awesome. I'm really really curious to real world efficiency numbers

This is exactly the type of engineering I would expect from Grin. Amazing

@scienceraven1200

Күн бұрын

what regen efficiency %?

This is going to be a game changer! Can't wait for a product!

@wturber

4 күн бұрын

Yep. It really is its own new category.

@freeforester1717

3 күн бұрын

It’s been 12 hours - they’ll already be being built and sold on Ali…😊

@haqitman

3 күн бұрын

@@freeforester1717 right?

@sammiller6631

2 күн бұрын

@@freeforester1717 Stuff bought on Ali tends to fall apart right after you get it.

This is so elegant I'm aghast at the fact no one had tried it before!

It exactly the Toyota Hybrid transmission adapted to ebike. GENIUS.

@jamesvlambert

3 күн бұрын

Yep

@xxwookey

Күн бұрын

It's true - we had a similar example to work off in a related sphere, and still apparently no-one actually thought to do this before Alon.

@azertyQ

Күн бұрын

@@xxwookey exactly why this should NOT be granted a patent.

@xxwookey

Күн бұрын

@@azertyQ Maybe. The patent people allow very small inventive steps. The Toyota hybrid uses a 2nd electric motor to drive the planet frame. This uses a brake. That'll almost certainly be enough to declare it a new invention. It would be better for the world if this wasn't patented, just something all manufacturers can use. But not better for Alon.

@magicbox9371

Күн бұрын

Aliens can’t hold patents on earth

great idea, only concern is running disc brakes at high tourque/low speed. The heat difference between the rotor in contact and the rotor not in contact with the pads might cause warping, also pad glazing. Disc pads are meant for high speed high tourque. i could see these having issues with brake noise.

@GrinTechnologies

3 күн бұрын

That's one of the things that only firsthand experimentation will help us better understand. In general glazing happens from disc pads getting too hot, and since the frictional energy dissipation with a low speed rotor is way less than a high speed rotor, the heat will similarly be way less with this system too. The expectation is that the pads will last much much longer and provide more dependable braking than with a conventional setup, but the proof will be in the pudding once we get a lot more on the road and have ways to quantify this.

@dmrfnk

Күн бұрын

​@@GrinTechnologiesAs a bike mechanic I can confirm clean brakes way more often squealing on small bikes, kids bikes and on casual riders' front brakes because they barely use them. Even if broken in they will start screaming due to little use. On bikes glazing due to overheating seems not to be an issue. However as a hub manufacturer you have near zero control of what will be installed on actual bikes if you use standard disc mounting. You can make a specification but bike manufacturers will just override it to get to their price point.

Amazing tech and Grin values on full display. Perfect partnership and a win for everyone!

OMG. This is so so cool. Revolutionary, even for mid-drives

@GrinTechnologies

4 күн бұрын

There is even a trick to use a similar concept with mid-drive ebikes, but it's got a bit more mechanical trickery and custom parts required. What's so elegant about the hub motor solution is it's a painless drop-in fit of a front or rear wheel hub.

@musicamaiz

4 күн бұрын

​@@GrinTechnologiescan you share more?

@solomon__ejay

4 күн бұрын

True. So true.

@solomon__ejay

4 күн бұрын

Buh, when there's a will, there a way. Only a matter of time now.

@user-dy3oc3vt8h

4 күн бұрын

@@GrinTechnologies With two different rear wheel kits i noticed my rear wheel would not sit 'true' in the dropouts and even carefull adjustment wouldnt help because the axle torques and creeps out of the dropouts in a un-symetrical way causing the wheel to lean drive side at the top and non-drive side at the chaistays. e, and i asked you about this years ago and you said, "i havent seen that happen before" which to me is BS. It is easy to replicate. This was a big reason i had to take the rear wheel kit off my bike (135 QR mounted). Two different bicycles using two different motors with your tourque arms(x2) on the second bike. and the biggest hurdle for wheel hub motors aside from this isnt regenerative braking but rather internal gears so the motor can be used most effectively going uphill or downhill. and also li-ion is a distasteful battery tech if only for the fire concerns while LiFe leaves a user wanting more after such a weight penalty. Honestly having a quiet gasoline middrive could be realized for less money, with a small catylitic converter it would run very clean. The motor could be made in titainium given how small it would need to be,, could last forever and not be destroyed by rain or need silicone conformal coating + weepholes. Oh.... and there are no oil-fill ports on any of these ebikes yet they have gears that turn for alledgedly years. makes no sence.

Very interesting design, I have a few questions :) 1) Do I understand correctly that if the planetary gear fails the brakes will not work? 2) What is the maximum braking power? Is it limited by the power of the electric motor / recuperation system? I would be interested in a comparison with a typical disc brake system.

@GrinTechnologies

3 күн бұрын

Correct that this requires the gears to work. Fortunately planetary gear failure is much less common than people make it out to be, but there is a reason to have them even further over engineered in this usage case. The braking power in watts is actually a function of the bicycle speed more than anything else. At high speeds it's easy to pull 1-1.5 kW of regen if you are slowing down fast, while at low speeds the same braking force can be just a few 100 watts or even negative watts (ie you are pulling energy OUT of the battery, not putting it in). What matters in a comparison is the torque, and with a largish geared motor as shown in this video that torque can exceed 100 Nm, which is around the point where the rear tire starts to skid.

@bigshnitzeljesse

2 күн бұрын

You'd still have front brake which provides the majority of braking power. Maybe invest in good anti-lock fronts. Most people riding bikes have low quality brakes all around if you think about it.

@ryan0io

2 күн бұрын

I've moved away from the gmac because changing planet gears every 1,000km is too expensive at $100+ per gearset. One planet gearset did last 2,000km, but that was the longest. And this is all 'easy' pavement bike-path riding at 30-40 km/h. So far the all-axle motor has been very good. Only slightly heavier, but no gears to fail, cools better, and is quiet.

@frankhage1734

Күн бұрын

It looks to me that if the regen electronics or the planet gear box fails, the wheel will freewheel. If the battery is full an you go downhill, then the electronics must shunt the current to get any braking. I wouldn't trust this on the front wheel.

@WahotsW

Күн бұрын

@@ryan0io I don't know exactly what Radpower is using, but my BF's bike has an amazing 6,000km and is still going strong. I hope my (non-radpower) gears last that long, but we will see... Mine are currently at 1,004km.

Amazing! Thanks for that, such a clear explanation. Justin, you're the man!

@GrinTechnologies

3 күн бұрын

Hey Nathan and glad you liked it! In principle this tech could be used on a next Gen electric unicycle hub for long distance touring, where you use the motor for help on the up hills and disc modulated regen on the downhills, and have it freewheel with no drag riding on the flats. Not a big market, but one that is always ticking in the back of my mind :-)

@nhoover

3 күн бұрын

@@GrinTechnologies That would be amazing!!

These guys went to the right person to develop and bring this to market, Justin is the Man!

Brilliant work. Congrats on this new development; looking forward to having this new motor available soon!

Beautifully elegant and solid!

Finally! Can't wait to see it🎉

@GrinTechnologies

4 күн бұрын

The countdown is on! Thanks for being tuned in.

Totally Brilliant !!! I am glad to see that Grin tech decided to be involved in teh dev of this product. It will be a succes no doubt!

excellent development, and work done by all parties involved!

Simple control of a complex problem. Well done!

What a great piece of engineering, thankyou for sharing this new idea

That's amazing, looking forward to seeing it in the market!

Amazingly Brilliant! Thank you for sharing this video. Greetings from Madang, Papua New Guinea.

Very cool. I've been running a direct drive rear for over 15,000 miles now and as my needs have changed from lots of daily miles to more frequent short trips in a hilly area, this looks like a great replacement ... or an nice excuse to fiddle with the bike. :^)

Elegant and revolutionary!

Wow, that is amazing, well done to the team.

How incredibly elegant!

Honestly i really hope he get’s rich by licensing this. It’s fucking brilliant.

Utter engineering elegance! Brilliant minds making real progress. Might have to investigate putting this into the Dual Motor electric cargo bike, Cyclopes!

This is truly an awesome story for aspiring engineers! 👍😎👍

Please make this available for retro fitting to tadpole trikes! I would purchase one in an instant!

I'm not a huge fan of hub motors, yet watched through and am amazed at the awesome engineering that improves and simplifies. I am sure this will bring improvements to electric cars as well

@barneyklingenberg4078

Күн бұрын

Why? I despise front wheel hub motors. Due to the awful riding characteristics it creates. But rear hub is usually very low maintenance simple and long lasting. Also the other parts tend to last longer (chain cassettes and in this case the brakes)

Almost shocking how simple this is......... but that makes it such a great idea.... I get the idea of breaking while the battery is at 100%. This allows for flexibility in battery capacity. Add more battery when you go for a ride in the mountains, use less when short and flat ride :-) It is a pity you need a sensor on the brake arm to use this system. Would have been great if it could do without. Shimano or Bosch should adopt you guys or at least use your technology in their systems.

@GrinTechnologies

4 күн бұрын

Exactly, that's what makes this invention particularly special. Amazing that with 7 billion people on the planet there are still some simple solutions like this lurking in the background waiting for someone to have the right AHA moment!

@GrinTechnologies

4 күн бұрын

Oh, and you CAN use it without any sensor on the brake arm, as long as you don't throttle and brake at the same time, and one of the demo bikes setups at eurobike runs this way too. When the motor isn't being driven, the disc rotor spins and would stop spinning once the brakes are squeezed which the control system can pick up on and then engage regen to hit the slip ratio. But while you are throttling, the disc rotor isn't turning, and so there's now way in that scenario to know that the rider has pressed the brakes.

@HansKeesom

4 күн бұрын

@@GrinTechnologies I think it is normal behaviour on a normal bike not to throttle when breaking. That why I think this could be a nice self-contained frontwheel system for existing (e-)bike. Maybe even with the battery inside the wheel, like the Copenhagen wheel did.

This will have massive implications and is such an elegant design

YAY! HOORAY! I can't wait to get this in my bike!!!

I'm impressed!

Impressive work......

My rolling- gen system. I have introduced a button (inline with the brake sensor) into my regen-braking, using the variable regen braking system within the grin controller. What I have done is mounted a handlebar on-off button and set my adjustable regen to activate on the minimum setting which hardly even stops the bike on flat ground let alone going down hills, if I want more braking power of course I use the accelerator/ throttle to increase the regen-braking as normal however using the minimum setting going down any hill gives me more regen charging apart from regen stop braking. If this button is introduced to stop the internal brake within the Freegen brake then you could recharge going down hills like I do with the standard GMAC. If like Justin has said that you reclaim about 10 - 15% for regen stop braking how much do you think you can regen charge going down hills ???? I plan my bike rides to go down hill in both directions if possible.

MOTOR GENERATOR IS THE FUTURE OF ELECTRIC DEVICE! VERY GOOD IDEA!

The benefits of this astounding innovation are MUCH more than just regen. The reduced load on the torque arm for example. But also the big reduction in brake wear. About a year ago I started regularly riding in an area where there are steep hills, and live at the top of a hill. I am leaning on the brakes hard all the way downhill, and buying pads every four months or so. This would not only let me offload the brake wear to the motor, but also it would let me vary my downhill speed on the fly so I could either go down faster, or just apply less regen on a hill segment where the slope of the hill is less, so I can maintain whatever speed I think is comfortable at the moment. I see this as not just a now-we-got-regen feature but a head-and-shoulders general improvement of hub motor technology.

I'm glad to see ebike regen advance so far!

Beautiful engineering. Truly.

Literally just commented on an old video asking whether clutch was a thing. So cool. I wonder if they've just added a reversed clutch mechanism with an electromagnet to overcome the freewheel spring. I've got a bbshd on an HP velotechnik street machine, but lose so much going down hills because it's so fast. I've wanted to do a front hub geared motor regen for it and this would be perfect. I was

This an awesome solution! Really well done boys! 🤙

Nice one! thanks for telling the story

I've had debates with people in forums stating there is a big difference between regen not being implemented in freewheel hubs and not being possible. I explained that in principle, there is no reason someone could not engineer a solution. They didn't agree with me; I'm glad someone finally proved me right. I don't think this is the very first example, though, although the solution is undoubtedly more elegant. My spouse has an HP Velotechnik Scorpion that I had retrofitted with a factory Go SwissDrive system, which has regen in a freewheeling rear hub motor. Ours doesn't have brakes because the frame is too old, but it can be fitted with a disc brake. I wonder how their solution compares; GSD unfortunately went out of business. I hope to upgrade that trike some day for my spouse, previously knowing that I would have to give up regen; but maybe now I can someday upgrade it with a GMAC equipped with freegen. It would be fantastic if it were made in such a way that an existing GMAC could be retrofitted with a new planetary gear assembly and cover plate. It's unclear to me if the electronics would need to change though. It seems like your prototype was achieved only with machining?

@GrinTechnologies

3 күн бұрын

The GoSwiss is a direct drive hub motor, so it's not truly freewheeling. It's the same as the Grin All-Axle, the BionX, the Falco, and similar systems. That said, with good engineering you can get the drag of a DD hub to less than 0.5 Nm which is pretty hard for the average rider to discern. The retrofit route on a GMAC for this prototype was more convoluted than just a simple swap, but as we move in next phase design prototyping we'll keep in mind to see if there are ways to do it just with a chance of the plannet carrier and side plate. That would be especially cool and would be a nice avenue for early adopter testers. The Phaserunner also needs a minor rewiring hack so that the white speed signal from the motor makes it to the Main9 cable, replacing the FWD/REV pin that is currently there.

Sounds like this will be a game changer!

@sammiller6631

7 күн бұрын

Why do people say "game changer"? It's overused.

@nerdslikeus6690

4 күн бұрын

@@sammiller6631 I think it was started by DARPA

@daich

2 күн бұрын

@@sammiller6631 i agree but in this case, it is applicable. this will definitely change the ebike game

Great vid. Simply amazing and genius! All the best on the developments...it sounds like a game changer. How much range improvement will this regen provide?

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

This should also nearly eliminate brake locking, making this the first practical concept of ABS I’ve seen for e-bikes. If the gear teeth are made of durable enough material this is going to make big waves in the market

Holy in the freak! This is going to be big!

@GrinTechnologies

4 күн бұрын

It sure has potential to change the ebike landscape a little!

I'll Take one Please!!! Great Video thanks!!! God bless!!!

Seems brilliant, nice presentation also!

Pretty cool I’m still new to eat bikes I don’t know about all the different system types of things out there but I’m a bicyclist, this just sounds game changing

This is what we simply call "good engineering". Love it :)

Very exciting. Congratulations.

this is genius, can't wait to buy one!

Wishing you all the best of luck with this amazing innovation. Am Yisrael Chai.

Very cool, game changing!

I love this. Very elegant.

This is brilliant engineering. You guys need to get in touch with Aptera motors who are building solar electric vehicle with hub motors. Maybe of interest to them.

I like the simplicity of no torque arms, and variable regen. But I also don't mind if when not pedaling instead of freewheeling, the optimal regen to stop rate were applied. Basically, a knobby fat tire ebike with freewheel still slows down significantly as you cut power due to wheels. Even more at low pressure. Range extension and brake wear is manageable through this predictable and intuitive slow down during coasting. Faster trip times are possible with shorter "coast" times that apply regen. Basically freewheel is not at all necessary. Still, a nice thing about this system would be low heat, where motor is not generating heat 100% of the time.

@GrinTechnologies

4 күн бұрын

Yes, we get a few people who like and want "engine braking" like this and it's actually a setting in the Phaserunner / Baserunner controller suite for those who do. Unfortunately that won't work with a freegen setup as the brakes need to be used, so if it's a feature someone wants it needs to be a more classic regen capable hub.

It's like an automotive differential with a motor on one wheel shaft and a brake on the drive shaft? I love this simple but effective concept!

@AlonGoldman-ChargeBike

4 күн бұрын

Motor on one shaft, hub on the other shaft and brake on the drive shaft, exactly, that's why I'm referring to it as a "two degrees of freedom system"

@rudge3speed

3 күн бұрын

@@AlonGoldman-ChargeBike I will buy one, hope to see it on the market soon!

@Domspun

2 күн бұрын

Pretty much how Quaife mechanical lsd works.

Awesome! Good luck guys! I'll buy one for sure. I own a nice electric bike, but I always wondered why they did not include regen braking or even rolling regen. It's a waste of energy!

Unreal. Can’t wait to get one! So novel.

I set mech disk breaks w/ a bit of slack before the pads ingauge to use regen anytime I want, even when peadeling after the boost has be set to zero.

Stop! I can only thumbs-up the video so much!

Inspiring!

Well done to you Justin for giving two random dudes the time to explain their idea. Looks great! Is there an issue with keeping dirt out given that you have to expose the carriers which would normally be nicely hidden away inside the motor case? Also can you lock the back wheel for all important skid turns to impress your friends?!

@GrinTechnologies

3 күн бұрын

Oh the planet carrier is brought out via ball bearing, so it's got the full bearing seal on it and no worry about dirt ingress. But sealing that larger bearing against water is a bit of a concenr that we addressed in the Q&A video you can also watch. As for skidding the back wheel, come to Eurobike next week and give it a spin yourself!

@RaglansElectricBaboon

2 күн бұрын

@@GrinTechnologies thanks for the answers. I'd love to come to Eurobike but I'm in New Zealand and only fly to visit family or for emergencies. One day :)

Je serai content d’apprendre que le vm45 de Katanga passerait par Grin pour son moteur. Et bravo Justin et toute l’équipe.

This is so elegant, just beautiful. I forgot to ask in the QA because I arrived late : to work around the large bearing/weather sealing issue, would using centerlock discs help reduce bearing size ? Or is centerlock proprietary and to be avoided in this case ?

@GrinTechnologies

3 күн бұрын

This is a really good idea that we will look into! The diameter of a centerlock system is certainly less than the 44mm BCD pattern of an ISO disc and could help with this concern for sure by allowing a smaller bearing over the carrier. Thanks for the comment.

@arlendetraz1863

2 күн бұрын

@@GrinTechnologies I suppose that external spline lock rings for the centerlock are to be preferred to give plenty of space for the axle.

This is an absolutely amazing brakethrough! (yes I misspelled that on purpose, I'm very sorry) Congrats all around, I'm wildly impressed. Really hope the whole ebike industry takes this seriously; I want more regeneration-capable ebikes. Now it has me wondering, is there a way to make this have ABS? I guess that might require a finer-resolution wheel-speed sensor, but otherwise couldn't it back off the regen anytime it detects a locked wheel?

Perfect!

This is absolutely genius!

Electric kick scooters are just regen-capable eBikes without pedals… and I’ve never seen a freewheeling model. When your battery is low and you can’t fall back to pedals it’s even more annoying that the regen-capable hub motor quickly saps away any momentum you’ve built up from kicking. Get it into an even smaller hub motor and I think this will be just as well-received in the world of kick scooters.

Dang, this is a brilliant solution.

impressive AF. KUDOS all around. the elegance of this innovation is astounding.

Seems like the same concept would also work on a dynamo for braking a conventional touring bike

Amazing

So what's the typical real-world improvement in battery runtime?

@GrinTechnologies

4 күн бұрын

The prototype bike that Alon rides is generally getting a little over 10% energy back with this system, which is pretty typical of regen recapture on an ebike.

@wturber

4 күн бұрын

I think GrinTech has a nice video on regen that explains how the amount of regen is situationally dependent. Things like stop frequency, hills and grade percentage all factor in.

@LeesChannel

3 күн бұрын

​@@GrinTechnologies So the efficiency gains in freewheeling are lost in the friction braking during regen?

@kit6580

3 күн бұрын

@@LeesChannel no, losses on regen are losses on 10% not 100%

@LeesChannel

3 күн бұрын

@@kit6580 You're right

Amazing!!!!!

Amazing...sometimes it takes someone that is not very familiar with a machine to improve it :). Only having torque on the torque arm in one direction is a huge improvement regarding reliability. Definitely something worth pursuing...looking forward to seeing what Grin Tech can do with the technology.

this is something i have been working on too for a while, in the end the best and easiest solution is to forgo the actual brake, and use fully electric Ebraking, less complexity and weight. and this solution pretty much works like a brake+dynamo in one :p on the rear tho it still makes sense to have a regular hydrualic disc brake, since having gear that can offload the energy trough heat if the batery is full would add more weight and complexity again. and the nr1 issues i have run into is making a custom hub small and light enough that it would be worth it and work proper, that being said the cool part is no torque arms needed since you can mount to the caliper mounts :D

It seems that using a direct drive AC induction motor could greatly simplify the system. This would require greater electronic controls complexity but it could eliminate all gearing. Also eliminate all permanent magnets replacing rare Earth magnets with large diameter, low rpm, high torque, multi pole AC induction motor/generator using something analogous to a squirrel cage.

Wow. I CAN IMAGINE SO MANY APPLICATIONS ALREADY. I saw a video recently, someone talking about disk brakes on EUCs for added stopping power. How about this, am EUC with a lighter motor with mechanical advantage both for accelerating and for even greater braking potential. Total genius!!

@GrinTechnologies

4 күн бұрын

On an EUC it wouldn't work at all as that vehicle needs to do constant bidirectional torque to stay balanced, and since this device freewheels when the disc isn't being pressed then you'd totally just fall over. But for a super skilled normal unicyclist who can 'coast' by feathering their unicycle brakes with the feet off the pedals, this system would work flawlessly.

Finally!

this must have been the best experience to design

@AlonGoldman-ChargeBike

2 күн бұрын

Absolutely !

Thx for the quick reply, I sometimes wish I still had the Bionx. I made the switch to Bosch and although it hasn’t given me any issues (14k) I miss knowing the free energy is being bypassed

very very cool!!!

Absolute genius

This + Pinion gearbox is gonna be the new world standard. Add a fully-enclosed chaincase, and the whole powertrain and brake system is protected from the elements

Yes this is similar to what i have been thinking about,...However i considered the Torque force and wondered if allowing a spinning part to continue to Gain frequency. my thoughts revolved around an internal mechanical component with high rpm and torque,... never mind ,that's Genius i cant wait to try one. thanks