3:47 “Keep an eye out for the word target…”, or flying, I guess. It is an important one too!

@RobMedellin

Жыл бұрын

Or deathtouch

@jakethewolfie119

Жыл бұрын

Or Lifelink

Two things to point out: 1) You can choose a target even if it's silly to still get the spell's other effects. You can "counter target spell" that can't be countered, "destroy target creature" with indestructible, or "gain control of target creature" you already control. So, for example, Act of Treason can be used just to give your own creature haste. 2) Since you brought up Decimate, this seems important: You don't actually need four distinct targets. You can, for example, pick the same Baleful Strix for your artifact and creature and then the same Urza's Saga for your enchantment and land.

@Suspinded

Жыл бұрын

Act of Treason is also an untap effect in red. I can't count the number of 3/4 untapped Vampire Nighthawks I got free damage with using Mark of Mutiny in Zendikar limited.

@apjapki

Жыл бұрын

​​​@@Suspinded Also a one shot haste enabler for one of your own team

@mn6334

Жыл бұрын

I have a Krenko commander deck built around using Act of Treason effects to untap my own Krenko as much as possible. It's pretty fun.

@davidchapman7350

Жыл бұрын

self-targeting with an act of treason effect is the whole reason the Kiki-Jiki / Zealous Conscripts combo works.

@JLPicard1648

Жыл бұрын

This goes as well for copy-spell effects. Kicked Rite of Replication targeting my legendary Zada, Hedron Grinder? Yes please!!

I like casting Vines of Vastwood on an opponent's creature when they try to pump it or equip something to it.

@GoodMorningMagic

Жыл бұрын

A classic! Nice one

The wrinkle that a spell will fizzle only if it has no legal targets on resolution is now much better illustrated for me. Until now, I was not confident about how to interpret those decimate and cryptic command examples, so thank you Gavin!

Many an enfranchised rules lawyer had so thoroughly convinced me that Decimate was unplayable because it fizzled if it lost any of its targets. To the point that I haven’t been playing it in my decks for years, citing that as the reason why not. Thank you Gavin for clearing that up!

@RasmusVJS

Жыл бұрын

They weren't very good rules lawyers then if they were wrong. :D

@supranova7594

Жыл бұрын

My understanding was it used to fizzle if it lost any of the targets but that they changed the rules on it couple years ago

@NeoSlimey

Жыл бұрын

They used to be correct, but the rules on spells with multiple targets changed a while ago.

3:46 "Keep an eye out for the word target" *highlights the word flying

@lunotique

Жыл бұрын

Or banding

Fun vid, always good to reinforce this kind of stuff.

@GoodMorningMagic

Жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

Cards like Lorehold Command and Dark Salvation deliberately target players in addition to creatures specifically to get around the "I sac my creature in response and fizzle the effect" trick. It reads a little weirder, but it helps make the rules work. One thing that really surprised me in the Warhammer 40k decks was that Blight Grenade and Mandate of Abaddon seemingly just sort of forgot, or didn't care, about this problem? It's strange to me that they weren't worded as "Choose a creature" to avoid that feel-bad case.

@Natedogg2

Жыл бұрын

Especially in the case of the Mandate, that means the opponent doesn't get the chance to interact. If I have a 1/1, a 3/3, and a 5/5 in play, and you have a 2/2 and a 4/4, if it didn't target, you wouldn't know if you have to try to protect your 4/4 or not.

@troacctid

Жыл бұрын

@@Natedogg2 Personally, I think that's a preferable fail case to having the whole spell fizzle if your creature gets Unsummoned in response.

Same stream different direction, I think these deserve to be mentioned because they DON’T target: Clones enter the battlefield as a copy and never actually target. Auras entering the battlefield WITHOUT being cast (e.g. Brilliant Restoration, Replenish). These can slide onto even shrouded creatures, but will fall off if the creature has appropriate protection.

Gavin did teach me at least one thing. That my brain is too smooth for high level magic.

You forgot to mention the flipside of targeting: when you need a creature or artifact on an opponents board to target for one of your cards. If you need them to have a creature in play for that Decimate to have all legal targets (an issue after a boardwipe) you can tap your Forbidden Orchard to give a player a 1/1 spirit token. Or if you need them to have an artifact (this only works if they 1 or less mana available), cast Fateful Absence. Another way around the issue of your opponent not having an artifact is through either of the Liquimetal cards. Thran Forge also does the same. Shenanigans should be enjoyed to make sure you get your targets when the targets are removed, by say... a Gavin. 😃

One of my favorites is Canopy Cover. Its effect on one of your own creatures is, effectively, hexproof. But, cast it on an opponent's creature, and now they can't target their own creature, because you still control the aura. A very flexible aura in any deck with green that relies on its commander.

Thanks, Gavin. Here's what I learned today: even though I've been playing since the beginning, I'll never really understand this game.

I didn't know the purpose of "when you do" until this video, but it makes a lot of sense now.

I love this kind of video. Keep it up! (I also remember the neat multiple ninjutsu trick in an old video. Unfortunately, I couldn't make it happen on Arena.)

@RasmusVJS

Жыл бұрын

Full control mode maybe?

The amount of things I still learn about Magic after 13 years of playing it amaze me. Such a deep f***ing game. I love it.

Two more important ones: Aura spells require a target when they are cast, and are therefore stopped by abilities like hexproof and shroud. If you put them into the battlefield some other way, such as through zur, the enchanter's ability or via a replenish, you just attach them to a valid thing of your choice. This means that they don't target and so you could imprison in the moon a creature equipped with swiftfoot boots. The target on oblivion ring is an enter the battlefield ability so you don't need to announce it until after it has resolved

@SackofDooDoo

Жыл бұрын

I did the part in your first paragraph when I played a Sun Titan to bring back a Reprobation and put it on my opponent's commander that had Ward 7. He said, "Do you have 7 mana to pay?" to which I replied, "No, I don't have to." The table was flabbergasted as I explained and showed the ruling that you only target with auras if they are CAST, not put onto battlefield, thus, you can disable people's commanders that have both boots and greaves if you resurrect a card like Reprobation (or in your case, Zur). This same reason is why Bruna, Light of Alabaster works well with Greaves, as she "puts onto the battlefield," bypassing the Shroud targetting issue, while also dodging Hexproof work arounds like Shadowspear and Archetype of Endurance.

Shocking how few people understand this. Even seasoned players in my ONE prerelease had to call 3 judges to be convinced of the cryptic command esque scenario.

@EVO1148

Жыл бұрын

That was actually the ONE(!) thing I learnt from this video. I would have assumed the spell would continue resolving to the best of its ability. I didn't consider that it no longer had any "targets" per se and would therefore fizzle.

Great video! Cool idea to show rule interactions!

That gifts ungiven trick was neat. I didn't even think about getting rid of YOURSELF as a target to fizzle a spell.

The stray target rule was definitely the one that made me go "Oh shit." Great video!

I didn't know that the spell doesn't fizzle when you remove only one of multiple targets! One point I'll add building on this is that it took me awhile to realize I needed to play around graveyard hate when drafting the Innistrad sets. Opponents were blowing me out with rotten reunion.

You said to leave a comment if someone learned something, and I absolutely DID learn something! I learned that I already knew everything you discussed, and you forgot to add an important "target" topic mention this video. How to pseudo-target shroud and hexproof creatures through spells and abilities that don't actually target, but instead let's a player "select" or "choose" something, which can be the very thing your opponent thought you couldn't select. I'm smart and I want pants, so I'm a smarty-pants. You're welcome dummies. 😄

Great reminder video.

Thanks for doing this type of explanation! Very interesting

I have to admit, this video gave me a lot, I have to see it once more to fully comprehend it. I'm back in magic for like 1 month from cca 15 years long hiatus :D

It's great that you're back posting regularly Gavin, I love your videos.

@GoodMorningMagic

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for watching!!

This is great. More combat and targeting tricks videos, please.

I wasn't aware of the modal spell trick, nice!

The last one with Hypothesizzle is new for me, thanks ♥️

It's new to me that you can fizzle a modal spell by making one of its chosen modes invalid if it and only it involves targeting. So [Recover] is worded like it has two modes and if the first one doesn't have a target, the second one doesn't resolve either. (C.R. 608.2b) Also new that if a card asks you to choose a creature type, it is chosen only when it resolves, not when it's put on the stack. Not sure which part of C.R. references it.

I feel a bit stupid now, but after 25 years of playing Magic I now finally understand why and when a spell doesn't resolve. I knew the trick with Cryptic Command, but I've tried the same thing with other spells but they still resolved. Now I finally know why! Thanks! On an other note: Any chance to see you back on Twitch? I always loved your streams and the segments where you would tell a fact about a card of a viewer's choice!

@GoodMorningMagic

Жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!! And hope to come back sometime for sure. 😅

Great video!

Though I know it doesn't have to do explicitly with the word Target, I've always found it interesting the cards that use the word "choose" instead which kind of gets around hexproof and other common targeting mechanics

@freddiesimmons1394

Жыл бұрын

That feels really messy imo

@TirelessGod

Жыл бұрын

@@freddiesimmons1394 it is lol

Super interesting video. Once, playing Boros Burn in Modern, I missed a lethal line that involved casting Searing Blaze on my Swiftspear (the only legal target) to get her to 3/4 and swing for lethal. I lost the torunament because of that, but I learned something!

The choosing a creature upon resolution was something I didn’t realize about cards like Kindred Dominance

I just saw the First Look at March of the Machines and love that Planechase is back and in the precon decks! Me and my play group have been using the original planechase for years now when playing commander and it is a lot of fun! It can change the course of a whole game! I’ve gone from losing to winning just by changing planes! I’ve also won on turn 1 playing a five color deck and getting chaos to add WUBRG and cast my commander! Just wanted to share that and say thank you!

even as an mtg veteran, there are some interactions here I didn't think about! Excellent video as always Gavin

Responding to someone else's sword of fire and ice damage trigger to prevent them from drawing a card is another fun one. I also use the "when you do" to choose a target for my psychic pickpocket in my animar deck, mostly targeting itself to keep recasting and drawing. Its nice to see what I draw before choosing what to bounce.

That example with Cryptic Command is nasty! I’ll have to keep it in mind

You forgot to mention how when auras enter the battlefield without being cast, they just attach themselves to a valid target without actually targeting it so it bypasses shroud, hexproof and ward. It might seem niche but in decks that can abuse it, it's extremely useful as you can turn a normally impossible or incredibly difficult to remove target (ie: a voltroned Uril or something similar) and just make it a forest or indestructible bug. My Yorion deck in commander abuses this to make reality acid into possibly one of the strongest removal spells ever as it can attach to anything it needs to regardless of whether it has hexproof or shroud and ignores indestructible by being a forced sac.

UUUUH, come again?? I feel like I dont even understand Magic now!!! Thanks alot Gavin! lol

I’d love to hear more about the interaction between grasp of fate and the commander zone, and if it differs at all from other similar removal enchantments

Glad you have been post more lately! So modal spells the targets are chosen after the spell resolves correct? Second question What happened to your series with Melissa and the commander decks?

I was thinking we were going to hear about eureka effects and getting around hexproof and shroud with auras, but I like these.

I've a rulings question. Many cards, like Reality chip, allow you to "look at the top card of your library at any time". At what times can you not do this action. Can you do it while resolving spells like Brainstorm? While scrying, revealing or looking at what is the "top card of your library". A video covering this ability could be fun.

@seandun7083

Жыл бұрын

You can do it while half way through a brainstorm. You can do it while looking at the top card of your library, although you won't get any new information as it's the same card. While scrying, the cards stay on top during the whole process so you can't see beneath them until afterwards if you put them all on bottom. You can't look beneath a spell that you are casting from the top of your library until you have already chosen the targets/modes, payed for it, and put it on the stack.

Sweet! Now, a video on delayed triggers would be great!

I enchanted someone's 4/4 toxic guy with Combat Research. It reads like I would get card draw if damaged me. Which is not the case. But it worked. 4 turns not attacking.

The number of times someone has told me my decimate didn't resolve because they killed the creature I was targeting in response is STAGGERING

I learned an impressive amount about targeting with my white whale card: Flesh Allergy. I’ve spent a decade trying to break the card and have experienced more than one way the card can fizzle.

@TheRealWormbo

Жыл бұрын

Ah yes, single target, and only if that's still valid when the spell starts resolving, somebody might actually lose life. These Bone Splinters effects always have you pay upfront for something that might not actually happen.

Yuuup you just got a sub from me, this is awesome

Didn't learn anything new, but will still leave a comment to help your numbers.

If you look at modal spells that get made nowadays, you'll notice lines like "Target player gains 8 life." This so if one mode fizzles, the other still has a legal target.

Some of those are definitely clever.

Auras target when you cast them, but don't when you blink them, so it can be important to deal with hexproof/shroud

Didn't remember about 'when you do', so new thing learned Also, I've never considered cryptic command to be stoppable that way. Wild!

@GoodMorningMagic

Жыл бұрын

Glad to teach something new!!

My favorite target interaction was when somebody cast River's Rebuke trying to bounce my board and I countered it with Dawn Charm. The whole table was just sitting there stunned for about two minutes...

@yavivanov6650

Жыл бұрын

They were unsure why you'd play such a bad card

@chrisnengel7520

Жыл бұрын

It's not bad. That card has helped me achieve more than one victory with my deck, as well as save me from tight spots. It's also unexpected, so people tend to not play around it. There are piles of worse cards out there to be playing...

"switcheroo", he cheered

I'm surprised that auras entering the battlefield without casting(returning from the graveyard for example) were not mentioned. They are the only permanents that require to target something when being cast yet if not cast as a spell you just have to choose a legal target for them but that doesn't count as targeting. It is niche for sure but can be very powerful because this gets around not only hexproof or shroud but even protection from colours or enchantments.

Before watching this video, I know i didn't quite understand all the differences. After watching dthe video, I now know there are more possibilities I have no idea about. Still very confused. Love your video though!

I wish you talked about councils judgement and choose getting around hexproof

I didn’t concretely know that all of what follows a targeting clause is contingent on targeting, versus the when you do example. I wonder if that quid pro quo could be templated more clearly.

Gavin Verhey of Game Knights fame! #gameknights

I didn't know that removing the target of a cryptic command would fizzle the entire command as a result, I figured because the other modes could still happen the rest resolved

@porgy29

Жыл бұрын

It depends on which modes you choose. If you choose the two targeted modes it will still happen, if you choose the two modes that don't your fine as well, but if only one target (especially the bounce) people can mess you up. When it was played in Standard and Modern you would often see Pro's picking modes that seem less ideal, but make it harder for their opponent to fizzle the spell.

I didn't know about Cryptic Command !

I would like a follow up video which goes a little more in depth about this topic! There are a lot of blowouts and sneaky tricks one can do, that are not that intuitiv on first look.

I still don't fully get why decimate resolves with a missing target but recover? Doesn't draw you the cards. Is there a trick to telling a difference between the cards? Really enjoy these rules tricks videos Gavin! I'd love a vehicles one next

@seandun7083

Жыл бұрын

A card only fizzles if all targets are no longer legal. Recover only has one target, so if that is no longer legal it doesn't do anything. Decimate has 4 targets, so if one of them is no longer legal, the rest are still destroyed. It only fizzles if all 4 are no longer legal.

How does the “if you do” work? Specifically on cards like archfiend’s vessel? Exiling it isn’t a may.

Regarding how Decimate will still resolve if something is sacrificed in response: does this also apply to Heliod's Intervention? I had opponents sacrifice targets in response and I was convinced that then the spell fizzles and all of the other targets would be safe

@seandun7083

Жыл бұрын

It does apply. If you target 3 things, and they sacrifice one in response or give it hexproof, the other two still die. It only fizzles if they are all no longer legal targets.

Wow when I started I was told that removing one target after decimate resolves counters the spell I’ve even told other people that now

I think you missed a very important targeting trick involving auras. Auras target when they are cast... but not when they enter the battlefield as part of another effect, such as Sun Titan. Which means you can get around shroud and hexproof to enchant a permanent this way.

I knew that spells with multiple targets will still try to resolve as best they can if they lose a target, but I did not know that they'll still fizzle completely if they lose ALL their targets.

Surprised the Aura ETB from graveyard trick to dodge shroud/hexproof didnt come up

I’m curious how targeting relates to last known information. Like, Piru’s death trigger doesn’t target, so it’s not a perfect comparison, but even though she’s dead, you’ll still gain life off of her burn thing, since she had lifelink when she was on the battlefield

@eternaleclypse

Жыл бұрын

Are you thinking of examples like Marionette Master? In that case, you use the creatures' last known power while it was still on the battlefield.

Needing all targets for decimate

0:13 bruh this whole time I thought that thing was an EYE (it seems like it probably intentionally resembles an eye? regardless of whether it’s intended to seem like an eye or not, I had NO IDEA it was a boat)

A lot of people have incorrectly informed me that removing one target from a card that has several specific targets means the whole card fizzles. Glad to see that it isn't true!

Does anyone have suggestions for more videos like this? I started playing in 5th grade up to now (I've been out of school for about roughly 5 years now, I was class of 2018) and I've always enjoyed learning new things. I already follow Tolarian Community College, Command Zone Podcast, and MTGGoldfish.

So how does random targeting work when prices increase on certain targets. For example, goblin test pilot when there is a kopala on board making so when goblin test pilot randomly targets a merfolk, it costs 2 more when you can't pay 2 more. Does it get rolled back or?

@whocifer9392

Жыл бұрын

I'm glad you asked because I've wondered the same thing!

Yeah I got scammed in the finals of a tourny that 1st won a Bob. I was on bogels and opponent was on Ux control. I was attacking for lethal (game 3) and they cast Cryptic command bouncing their snapcaster mage and tapping all my creatures. I pathed the snap and should have won but he called the judge and argued that he didn't know that's how targeting worked and they let him repick his CC modes... Never went back as the judge was the store owner.

I certainly wasn't aware that the "when you do" spells can have targets that aren't declared when the spell is announced but gain them partway through resolution. That's pretty weird.

@Natedogg2

Жыл бұрын

Technically, you're putting a trigger on the stack (they're called "reflexive triggers"), and that trigger is what's doing the targeting. Players get a chance to respond to the trigger like normal (so you can still do things in response to the reflexive trigger).

Have you considered using Decimate to ilustrate the examples in the video?

Clones: 95% Don't target. Don't say what you're cloning unless it's resolving. Likewise, Oblivion Ring: ETB, so don't mention target until the Ring is in play and the trigger is on the stack. And auras? They only target when you cast them. If they get flickered, or otherwise come into play, they can be attached to anything that's legal for them, even if it has hexproof or shroud.

@Jerhevon

Жыл бұрын

I will say it's fun to counter Ziatora's treasure generating ability by making her burn target illegal. And while it doesn't come up often, I countered a player's Jeska's Will by killing the player he was targeting with an instant. No mana generated, no cards passion drawn. XD

Can someone explain how Druid of Purification doesn’t target, getting around hexproof and protection. Choose is somehow different?

I found targeting rules to be pretty inconsistent until you said “unless every target is removed”. That makes so much sense to me and is definitely a good rule of thumb going forward

I've got a question: How do I know when to choose something? For example Blast of genius (6:46) Says "Choose any target" and this has to be selected on cast. But Kindred Dominance says "Choose a creature type" and is choosen when it resolves. And when casting spells that have modes you also have to choose them on cast not when the spell resolves. Is there a good rule to follow here?

@Natedogg2

Жыл бұрын

If it uses the word "target", then you have to choose the target on announcement. Since Blast of Genius say "Choose any *target*", that means you have to choose the target on announcement. Same with modes - modes are always chosen on announcement, not on resolution. The Dominance doesn't use the word 'target', so you choose the creature type as part of the spell resolving.

@lukasschmitt3075

Жыл бұрын

@@Natedogg2 Thanks a lot. So spells that target and spells that have modes choose both when cast and spells that have none of these only do this at resolution? Or are there exceptions you know of?

@Natedogg2

Жыл бұрын

@@lukasschmitt3075 Modes and targets are chosen on announcement. Everything else (that I can think of) happens on resolution.

@seandun7083

Жыл бұрын

Also remember that etb abilities that target (like oblivion ring or frost lynx) also trigger on resolution. You don't need to declare what you targeted until after your opponent has decided whether to counter it. If course they can still respond to the ability after the spell has resolved.

@lukasschmitt3075

Жыл бұрын

@@seandun7083 Hi, thanks to you, too. But to be clear: A etb trigger with a target that goes onto the stack has to announce his targets when going onto the stack?!

So targeting. I have a scenario for you Taunting Elf on you side, and a creature on your opponents side. You attack with you Elf forcing the Block trigger. If you cast Valor Made Real on your opponents creature. Does it force that creature to Block the Elf more than once?

@Natedogg2

Жыл бұрын

The Elf doesn't have a triggered ability, it has a static ability. And the Valor just says it can block any number of creatures. It doesn't mean that the creature can block the same creature multiple times.

@dracosdiabolis1769

Жыл бұрын

@@Natedogg2 that's what I was thinking. Just was looking for second opinions. Lol. I was looking a Karplusan Wolverine/Tormentor's Helm/Simian Sling and thinking of ways to force the blocks and if there is a way to force creatures to block the same creature more than once.

At 3:50 he says to look out for the word "target" and proceeds to highlight the word "flying" on basilica skullbomb. Oops! Does that count as an illegal target? Or does it still resolve because he found another target?

So, a "when you do" card create a triggered ability?

Something's not clicking with regards to why I can sacrifice Commander's Sphere in response to Decimate and the spell still resolves, but in the next example, with Cryptic Command, if I doom blade the creature in response, the whole spell fizzles. I'm not getting the difference there. Any idea what I might be missing?

@GoodMorningMagic

Жыл бұрын

The difference is that there is still at least one legal target. As long as there is one legal target, the spell will try to resolve. Hope that helps!

@brettwolfelodge7379

Жыл бұрын

@@GoodMorningMagic thank you! I think I understand. So if someone was using the "Counter Target Spell" mode of Cryptic Command to counter something and then chose one of my creatures with the "Return Target Permanent" mode. I Doom Blade my creature in response and the counterspell mode still happens because there's still a legal target?

When was this change made? I remember thinking hex was really bad because it had to target 6 creatures and would fizzle if a creature was sacrificed

"You have to select all legal targets before the spell or ability goes onto the stack" Well, unless you've got a Krark-clan Ironworks, a card with a targeting trick so complicated it got banned.

I didn't know Innocent Blood targeted!

Okay. If I understood correctly, Hypothesizzle's damage cannot be stopped after the target is chosen, because choice of a target is a part of resolution of a spell that is already resolving. Am I correct?

@Natedogg2

Жыл бұрын

Hypothesizzle (the spell) has no targets. But if you discard a nonland card when it resolves, a reflexive trigger goes on the stack, and that trigger targets (and can be responded to).

@GoodRogue

Жыл бұрын

@@Natedogg2 Thanks!

This was a really helpful video. Good job. Also I hate it when Magic players refer to cards as "technology." Stop!

AEGIS TURTLEEEEEE !!!! Thats my favorite pet blue card

I was expecting the Sun Titan reanimating a Pacifism to enchant an Illusion .....

you taught me pleeby deeby oobey doobey

I didn't know cryptic command could fizzle if you get rid of one of its targets. How come that one doesn't behave like a decimate if some sacrifices a creature in response?

@kitsovereign4127

Жыл бұрын

A spell is fizzled if *all* of its targets are invalid. So if you choose a combo for Cryptic that only has one target (like bounce + draw), and that one target gets removed, it fizzles. If you pick counter + bounce, it'll have two targets, so the targeted spell will still get countered even if the targeted creature gets hexproof or something.

@Suspinded

Жыл бұрын

The key is all the targets being invalid. Choosing "Tap all creatures..." and "Draw a card" has no targets, for example. "Counter target spell" and "Return target creature..." will both add the targeting requirement that could make this a risk.

@cyrusburton1287

Жыл бұрын

Got it, that makes sense. Thanks!

You have taught me that I am very confused