Problem is they were so obsessed with not blaming the hotshots crew chief or the hotshots themselves that they were very protective of the entire thing. Communication was a train wreck at times and it seemed they were way overconfident that they had it under control. Anderson is right; i remember when this happened and the first thing I heard was you can't point fingers. In reality you want to know what happened so you can fix the issues so it won't happen again. These were good, brave men and there needs to be answers.

@DJKATJAAPRADIO

6 жыл бұрын

jpm4444 I agree

@dealvarush357

6 ай бұрын

😅

@jamiehoover9348

4 ай бұрын

F

Finally someone really tells it like is! A valuable video. Telling the truth honors the fallen. Thank you John Dougherty & Chief Peter Anderson.

When you come right down to it, it is unforgivable that the central command on a fire like this does not know exactly where each and every hot shot crew is at each and every moment. GPS technology is 20 years old now, and it is unforgivable that we let men get this close to wildfire without each of them wearing a GPS transponder. Eric Marsh made a mistake, but any individual crew boss can make the same mistake. The single point of failure is a perfect invitation to tragedy. There need to be multiple eyes at the command center watching the movements of each hotshot crew. As other videos show, guys from other crews thought Granite Mountain was still in the black, when they had left it long ago. What a complete lack of situational awareness by the command center!

@DJKATJAAPRADIO

6 жыл бұрын

Joe Quinlan I agree

@debd5641

5 жыл бұрын

Unfortunately it isn't that simple. There are not enough bandwidth frequencies. Even our military do not have them. Maybe with 5g and newer advancements coming, there may be possibilities in the not so distant future. But five years ago... not possible. Then there was the topography to affect the signal. I know everyone is angry and looking for a simple answer. There isn't one. It was a box canyon and the events all unfolded horrendously but no one did anything wrong. If they had left 15 minutes earlier or 15 minutes later...the whe event would have unfolded dramatically differently. Everyone wants to blame someone or something. I get it. But, sometimes there really is no one who did anything wrong. Sometimes it is just a horrible event.

@joemariquinlan

5 жыл бұрын

@@debd5641 You are underestimating where the state of technology was, even five years ago. GPS has long been able to keep track of multiple targets simultaneously. Think of all the cell phones that have been operating off a single tower since the 1990's. When the US military goes into battle, they know the location of each tank, helicopter, and plane, and they have since the 90's. 2013 technology could have easily told central command the location of Granite Mountain in real time. They just didn't budget for it. There are only two moral choices: If you going to let firefighters get as close to wildfire as hotshot crews do, then you must give them all the latest technology. If you are not willing to budget for the latest technology, then don't have hotshot crews in the first place. To do otherwise is simply murder. No set of buildings is worth a human life.

I don’t understand why someone doesn’t have a flare gun in the hotshot crew as a last resort to show location to air tankers

@tamadrummer111

2 жыл бұрын

A flare gun? In a wildfire? Why not just light a match? They'll equaly do nothing

@gc99289

8 ай бұрын

Maybe not a flare gun, but a powerful lazer. Shining a lazer at helicopter cabin or plane will instantly tell them your location and get their attention.

Pete was my Chief when i was on The Yarnell Fire Department and they made a Mistake by letting him leave

@Arizona_Desert_Walker

2 жыл бұрын

Steven, please reach me. I have looked for you for nine years.

Truth teller. You can tell when an honest man is speaking.

Very direct and correct response. Thank you chief.

And the residents were well cleared out right? So, saving empty homes and personal property is worth firefighter's lives now? Makes them Heroes? Changes the benefit payouts agreed to beforehand? Too bad for all hurt by this debacle. Let's make sure it doesn't happen again.

John, I am currently on a wildfire crew here in California, As I began to watch this interview, I thought, Wow the interviewee is asking very excellent poignant questions, At about that moment I thought, "I know that voice" Sure enough it was you my former team mate and roommate! Another award winning Video by you. Kudos John.. Rich Peters, Pismo Beach, Cal..

this should have had never happened. WE broke the 18 and 10 fire orders. Why pull your crew out of the dam black and go down hill where you could not see the fire! The crew boss screwed up big time!

@DJKATJAAPRADIO

5 жыл бұрын

YOU WASNT THERE DONT BLAME THE DEAD THEY CANT TALK BACK

@adamamber0513

5 жыл бұрын

You think maybe the fire was running along the ridge and they thought they had time to make it to the safety zone that the fire was getting out of hand in their direction so they tried to rush to the ranch or that hey just wanted to save the house and get to the safety area?

@1193bobmcc

5 жыл бұрын

@@DJKATJAAPRADIO You don't have to Be There to know what the facts are.

@DJKATJAAPRADIO

5 жыл бұрын

@@1193bobmcc THANK YOU FOR THE FACTS

@biglove2487

4 жыл бұрын

@@adamamber0513 I think that's what exactly happened.

Maybe it's as simple as instead of sitting in the hot baking sun they could be sitting in a nice safe air conditioned house improvised to withstand fire. We will never know what made them go down that Ridge.

@gtrance3567

3 жыл бұрын

Pressure from leadership to hike down and protect structures.

The person who assigned the safety spot without updating over the radio that it would be compromised once the winds turned 180 degrees???? This is extreme negligence. All wildfire crews know a fire head travels at 10mph in 40mph winds The fire head was 2 miles from the safety spot. The storm front with outflow air moving towards the SE was anticipated for over an hour in advance. Why is it no one said anything about abandoning the ranch as a safety spot?

Spot on.

Walked into a firey death because they were afraid of what people would think of them if they didn't. Shamed into doing that by idiots who weren't even there to see the full situation. Tragic indeed.

My take from this report Peter is talking about is pretty close. GM Hotshots were left to dry out in the field by BLM; or whomever put them on this fire. Say what you want to about the GM briefing before they deployed about their safe spot, and the GM Sup's decision to egress into fuel and a saddle to move out from the black. When the fire was handed over to the Type 2 Incident Commander the GM Hotshots were left on their own by who deployed them; and nobody in charge was paying attention to the boots on the ground, or the fire for that matter concerning their safety. One Hotshot crew on the fire working the heal in the black and their lookout bugs out; and no one tells them to stay in the black? Who was in charge?

@ericdecker7771

5 жыл бұрын

Chuck Howard I’m no firefighter. The only knowledge I have of this incident is from reading My Lost Brothers and The Fire Line as well as numerous videos and articles from those who were there. From what I understand, McDonough was ordered off his lookout spot by Eric Marsh when the first of two wind events occurred. He was picked up by Brian Frisby of the Blue Ridge Hotshots and taken to the cafe. Some folks seem to think GM left the ridge when they did because they thought the wind event that had just happened was the 2nd one when in actuality it was the first. From what I’ve read the collapsing outflow boundary from the storm is what accelerated the fire and caught them off guard. They couldn’t feel the wind change because they had already begun to drop into the canyon. I’ve also read some different things regarding Eric Marsh taking what other hotshot sups called “unnecessary risks”. Either way, it’s an awful tragedy that shouldn’t have happened. It’s crazy that here we are 6 years later and the issue of GPS for Wildland firefighters still hasn’t been addressed.

@JPF941

4 жыл бұрын

@@ericdecker7771 Eric Marsh's service record does not support the "unnecessary risks" comment. He was far from that. The IC of this event as well as operations were managing the north end of the fire which at 1615 had begun to burn into the city of Yarnell directly from the north. GM's sup was division A command, and GM was all that was in Division A for resources. The lack of coherent radio structure is a part of what happened that day, but to say it's because Marsh took unnecessary risks is unsupported by known fact. The other point I want to make is this, all 19 were together, they were all in a small area, no one ran from the group, there was no separation of the group. I think that makes the fire's appearance a complete surprise to the crew, why it surprised them is open for debate, but I do not think it's because they all willingly followed a questionable decision, and Steed was in command of the crew, not Marsh that day.

@joemariquinlan

11 ай бұрын

This is a great point. Of course Marsh and Steed made a really bad mistake. But why did they make that mistake? Why didn't their training kick in and keep them out of that box canyon? Just like the NTSB, you have to dig deeper on these incidents. Marsh and Steed had no record of risky behavior, so there must have been something else at work here. Was the whole concept of a "local" hotshot crew misguided? Things like that.

Terribly sad but if they stayed in the black this is all moot, no?

If you wonder why Americans have lost trust in their institutions, this is why. The Forest Service cannot be trusted to do a proper investigation including a determination of probable cause. In fact, the probable cause was Marsh and Steed deciding to descend into the box canyon in violation of multiple key precepts of their training. So why did they act in a way that was so uncharacteristic of their training and past performance? The Forest Service report completely punts on answering this question. And that is too bad, because answering that question could save the lives of future firefighters.

@gc99289

8 ай бұрын

DIdn't want to say the guys who died sucked at their job and quick decision making. I know bare minimum about wildfires and I knew it's probably best to stay up on the ridge vs going down the canyon. At least if the thing catches up to you it's easier to run downhill.

It's sad they are gone

@gc99289

8 ай бұрын

It's sad how they died, but they were not great at their job. Getting trapped in a canyon without being able to see the fire that has been flaring up and moving in gusts is amateur level mistake.

@Fresprt

7 ай бұрын

Especially sad that the crew boss clearly disregarded the 18 watchout situations AND the 10 Fire Orders. Also, there is the unofficial 19th watchout situation, to stay out of fuel laden chimneys, especially from the top side.

Yarnellhillfirerevelations

Obviously the crew did not get the update on the new activity of the wind that blew the fire up. The management team was way too busy as you can hear the frustration from the guy fussing at the crew "hollering in the radio" , wishing he would quit. That is a man too busy and comms were bad we know from the tone problems reported at the start of the shift. If the crew had known the fire was coming, they'd have never went where they did. I still wonder if some order was given to them that no one admits or remembers. Several watch out situations were present, they couldn't see the fire, the lookout wasn't able to warn them, they were moving into a box canyon full of fuel, and didn't tell anyone they were moving, and management was slow in getting notified due to com issues. A perfect storm for such a disaster. The investigation should not seek to blame, but to learn from the mistakes made, while honoring those who died.

People need to stop blaming

@Sirkillsalot22X

2 жыл бұрын

I don't think that's the point Pete Andersen is getting at. Whenever a disaster like this occurs, you need to find an objective root cause. Not so you can point the finger at someone and say "that guy fucked up" but so you can implement changes to prevent this from happening again. By coddling the whole situation without finding the cause, even if it means putting blame on someone/something, you're making their sacrifice worthless and inevitable for repetition.

@Fresprt

7 ай бұрын

So, it is really about butterflies, unicorns and yellow ribbons and nothing to do with the reality of The 10 Standard Firefighting Orders, The 18 Situations that Shout Watchout and LCES or keeping people safe and alive. Thanks for your input.

Investigators report fact. They don't speculate on what ifs.

@schlooonginator1227

6 жыл бұрын

Or rather a better question then, why did they not attack the fire easlier when it would be both easier and safer to do so. Why were there no heli support from the beginning. I think he has a point, many of these so called ÈinvestigationsÈ are more about the higher ups doing what is expected by investuigating but avoiding any questions involving the actual decision makers and the choices made but rather focusing on the actions of those on the ground, many who cannot be questioned. It becomes more a political exercise than a real investigation. This is done all the time because the people who stand to get in shit are the people who are often directly connected to the investigation.

@jpm4444

6 жыл бұрын

no way; not all. it matters. many investigations are round out to be bogus and bunk depending on who they are protecting and who is doing the investigations. With lawsuits pending, saying there is negligence means a great loss of money.

@fredschoeffler8047

5 жыл бұрын

Investigators first establish a conclusion report and then find facts to support it. They do fabricate and lie and cover-up

Where was the lookout? Uh, PICKED UP BY BLUE RIDGE SO THE LOOKOUT DIDN'T DIE. I love the opinions from people who weren't there and have no idea what was going on, discussed or decided by that crew. Chief doesn't know, 'journalists' don't know, the investigative team doesn't know. Those discussions and decisions died with the crew. Accept it. Your questions and speculations will never be answered.

@Arizona_Desert_Walker

Жыл бұрын

@jcm028 11 months ago (edited) I love the opinions from people who weren't there and have no idea what was going on, discussed or decided by that crew. Chief doesn't know, 'journalists' don't know, the investigative team doesn't know. Those discussions and decisions died with the crew. Accept it. Your questions and speculations will never be answered. WE WERE THERE ON THE WEAVER MOUNTAINS WITH THE GMHS- GO TO YARNELL HILL FIRE REVELATIONS AND SEE OUR TESTIMONY. I AM THE ONE WHO TOOK ONE OF THE LAST PHOTOS OF THE MEN--WE ALMOST DIED BUT THE 19 DID. WE ARE THE EYEWITNESSES. THE FIRE INDUSTRY IN 2022 MADE ME EMERGING LEADER IN FIRE SO I AM SURE I KNOW FIRE---

@Fresprt

7 ай бұрын

Yes the lookout was in danger. However the facts are that the crew boss did not follow The 10 Standard Firefighting Orders, The 18 Situations that Shout Watchout and LCES to keep all the people safe and alive.

These HEROES tried to move from the black to their Safety Ranch and Got caught by the racing flame front.1) A new Watchout should be created to ALWAYS keep Eyes on the Fire and Stay on the Ridge if at all Possible instead of losing Sight of the fire in Canyons or draws. 2)Also they should be equipped with real shelters, stainless sheets with aluminum cloth keeping them together and Sheep wool insulation inside. 3)NEXT they should have O2 canisters to breathe. The Fire stole their oxygen. 4)NEXT they should have a couple of Steel cable kites to locate themselves to aircraft. 5)NEXT Hotshots should have access to aircraft channels and aircraft should have to monitor it and air channels. This is NOT a Climate change issue it IS a 50 Year Buildup of Unburnt Fuel Issue. ALSO 4X4"s and GPS Locators could be used to Reduce Crew Sizes and Cut Lines Quicker with 4X4s. This is New Information of Watching dozens of Videos about This Disaster that focuses blame on the overwatch and failure to deal early with the fire while it was controllable.

So many people speak as if they were there Funny thing is majority of the people criticizing marsh and Jesse probably don’t even know the first damn thing about how fire moves. i’m sure they only think there’s one kind of heat that comes from the fire. I’m sure their answer would be hot.

@Arizona_Desert_Walker

Жыл бұрын

@brandonrobinson5703 3 weeks ago So many people speak as if they were there WE WERE THERE ON THE WEAVER MOUNTAINS WITH THE GMHS- GO TO YARNELL HILL FIRE REVELATIONS AND SEE OUR TESTIMONY. I AM THE ONE WHO TOOK ONE OF THE LAST PHOTOS OF THE MEN--WE ALMOST DIED BUT THE 19 DID. Funny thing is majority of the people criticizing marsh and Jesse probably don’t even know the first damn thing about how fire movesWE ARE THE EYEWITNESSES. i’m sure they only think there’s one kind of heat that comes from the fire. I’m sure their answer would be hot.THE FIRE INDUSTRY IN 2022 MADE ME EMERGING LEADER IN FIRE SO I AM SURE I KNOW FIRE---