At 17:48, you say “you have bread and wine... you could say space and time.” This opened up my imagination and I couldn’t let the phrase go until wrote a poem: Bread and Wine Bread and wine Are space and time And love divine Proclaiming death Enter in And cast your sin Upon the wind Of God’s own breath Take and eat And taste the sweet And wash His feet As blood wipes clean Holy Ghost The highest host In Him we boast We find our being Love your teaching, Jonathan! It’s helping me so very much. 🙏

Last week, in talking to my coworker, I explained that bread and wine were made of grain and grapes, which both sprang from seeds, but had to undergo further processing to become their final states: they represent, I explained, the beginning of the Christian life, and the processes that create bread from grain, and wine from grape, represent the process of refinement, growth, and development that Christians continually undergo through life. I also pointed out to him that it was a process of uniting with God through physical reagents, and "levelling-up," as a spiritual being.

I've been watching your videos for something like a year now. They've been so confusing to me. They describe a truth so deep I haven't been quite able to get it. Finally I feel like everything has started to "click". Thank you so much for your work and bringing me closer to the place I need to be!

The carnal rises to heaven in the smoke from the sacrificed flesh. The soul drips into the earth from the sacrificed blood. The imagery pieces together a whole web of symbolism. This is so insightful!

Hopefully not all at the same time ...

@ArcherWarhound

6 жыл бұрын

Sex and eating go quite well together, actually. Similarly, I would imagine that if you could take communion and then immediately go join in marital relations with your spouse that would be quite a meaningful and satisfying: to feel in that brief moment wholly at peace and in communion with both God and the most important person (to you) on earth.

@pontification7891

6 жыл бұрын

good one :D @archer -> I've read that Ethiopians don't condone this in their canons, I haven't read anything about other Orthodox traditions. We at our home though do practice "broad" communion, for the reason you mentioned.

@thenowchurch6419

3 жыл бұрын

@@pontification7891 I know that in the Ethiopian church one must not have had sexual relations for a certain period before taking communion, I have not heard about a rule concerning after. Have you?

@thenowchurch6419

3 жыл бұрын

Unless you are Aleister Crowley. LOL.

Your previous video where you discussed Christ and Communion reconciling and reuniting Cain and Able should be linked here as well for further watching by people who enjoyed this talk.

This is without a doubt one of the best explanations of communion that I've ever heard. Thanks to he who wrote the question, and thanks to you Jonathan. God bless

I was reading through the Exodus description of the Tabernacle, and I got to the Show Bread. I find it interesting that God commanded the Israelites to maintain twelve loaves of bread in the Tabernacle. The pastor explained that it meant that the Hebrews would show their faithfulness to God by supplying the Tabernacle with bread; the surest sign of an abandoned dwelling place is rotting food. Maybe I am just reading too much into it, but I was struck by the fact that God inverts this in the Eucharist. He shows His faithfulness to us by providing us with a bread in the form of the Body of Christ.

Matthieu's superb book contains a lot about this with superb clarity, and brilliant diagrams

Thank you for your hard work!

Another new video! But I'm not going to watch this right know, because I prefer to see them at night. I feel more connected with the silent. God Bless you, (A venezuelan young guy who escaped from Venezuela because we are under a comunist dictadoship and also, love your videos, because in my situation, I need to found God and keep my family unity).

@fraukatze3856

6 жыл бұрын

Bryan Barradas I hope your new life after Venezuela will bring you success and happiness. Very bad in Venezuela now. God bless.

@bryanbarradas6460

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks bro, God bless you too!

@bryanbarradas6460

6 жыл бұрын

William Merrick Thanks William!

Great placement of the intro!

I love your stuff man

Great video !

Eating can also illuminate the necessary and complimentary roles of both our effort and God's grace. Our effort is necessary, just as it is necessary to seek, prepare, and chew our food. But the food itself, the actual sustenance and life giving force, is God's grace.

Great talk. The symbolic level is more powerful than ideas and concepts, and is the level where we perform miracles, like turning water (libido) into Wine (Blood of eternal life), or bake the Bread (Flesh) with stolen fire. In the Jewish Eucharist or Kiddush, they use Bread, Wine and Salt, which fits in with the alchemical Tria Prima.

Just looking to the title makes u thinking and feeling profound.

You are what you eat.

@benoitlapierre1315

6 жыл бұрын

Porfirio Diaz what you absorb ' it all about assimilation it deeper then feeding

I think I'm getting it...but then lose it again.

Awesome

Very similar thoughts (and others) have happened to me. I'm glad to see I'm not the only crazy mind in this world. I would like to get in touch with you...

you probably know Heinlein described the sameness of knowing and eating for my age group pretty well with Grokking (I think it was from STranger in a Strange Land)

What is the image used for your intro? I really would love to have a copy for my room.

@kurtjensen1790

4 жыл бұрын

An image of creation. He does have it on shirts and mugs. There may be a poster.

@peppy619

4 жыл бұрын

The creation of eve

Been studying on my own for years... Your talks have combined the truths needed to perceive life as IT is. I've been neededing commune. Trying to find it all my life. Can't get my home in order, old or new. I'm in limbo. I'm in Montreal too..I need a place to go be real.. With people who understand. I've been wanting to teach these truths in and with logos locally and online. Knowing I can't do it alone. Please... Send me some message. No shame in begging

@jacfalcon

6 жыл бұрын

Cerebral Trip Hello! I'm always looking to connect with other people about relationship and the nature of our beautiful life on this Earth! I can't figure out how to message you on here though...

@johnr1485

4 жыл бұрын

Im in Montreal too

How can we call something blessed and favorable-that is procreated family-that owes its existence to the fall?

In evangelical spheres it is taught that Christ, during the last supper, refers more to the action performed upon the bread and wine than the substances themselves. It is said that the "this" in "this is my body/blood" is spoken as the action of breaking the bread and pouring the wine is performed, such that the idea of "kenosis" is inherent to the meaning of the statement, even if evangelicals themselves do not realize it. Thoughts?

I liked the beginning of the video, but I feel you lost cohesion in the latter half. Thanks.

Could you make a video on the symbolism of veganism? Why do some people claim that we should all stop eating meat and animal products? What do you think about the so called "sun eaters"? As far as I understand this is some extreme form of fasting, but I don't know what the proper response in a such argument would be.

100% for content

💜

Would it be reasonable to say holy communion is the unity of the both the eater and the eaten? I had this thought based on the image of the 3 angels and the cup.

Would it be proper to say communion is also an act of faith? That rationality cannot provide an answer to end questioning; so we must have faith to proceed in the world. And the communion act is an act of faith in the stories of Christ?

What's the painting at 23:40? Thank you!

@user-xw3su2ot6y

3 жыл бұрын

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Boyar_Wedding_Feast

@teethonreed

Жыл бұрын

A Boyar Wedding Feast by Makovsky

if communion is based on the last supper, which took place after jesus took out the bad leven of judas, then could it be said he replaced the bad ferment with the good ferment of the wine? a little leven levens the whole lump, the early church spread quickly because it was "under the influence"?

Where did you learn about symbolism?

@karbut4135

4 жыл бұрын

Bible.

@Tyler_W

3 жыл бұрын

@@karbut4135 that doesn't explain much. There are many people who try to sincerely read and study the Bible yet have very little understanding of symbolism. Appreciation of symbolism comes from education from your culture or an individual learned in such things, not simply from reading a text. You can't understand symbolism when you read it if that symbolism doesn't fit within your limited frame of reference.

@karbut4135

3 жыл бұрын

@@Tyler_W You are right, education generally. Espacilly for those who are aethists

@christophersnedeker

3 ай бұрын

He often references a book called life of Moses by st Gregory of nyssa.

Will you look at the symbolic significance of the Book of Mormon?

@zenuno6936

4 жыл бұрын

It symbolizes heresy. Literal and symbolical.

I just heard it now but he has a French accent

"We can tell those who assert the truth and certainty of the reality of sense-objects that they should go back to the most elementary school of wisdom, viz. the ancient Eleusinian Mysteries of Ceres and Bacchus, and that they have still to learn the secret meaning of the eating of bread and the drinking of wine. For he who is initiated into these Mysteries not only comes to doubt the being of sensuous things, but to despair of it; in part he brings about the nothingness of such things himself in his dealings with them, and in part he sees them reduce themselves to nothingness. Even the animals are not shut out from this wisdom but, on the contrary, show themselves to be most profoundly initiated into it; for they do not just stand idly in front of sensuous things as if these possessed intrinsic being, but, despairing of their reality, and completely assured of their nothingness, they fall to without ceremony and eat them up. And all Nature, like the animals, celebrates these open Mysteries which teach the truth about sensuous things." - Hegel, Phenomenology of Spirit (Miller)

🤯

Why is there more ostentation in the Eastern Orthodox Church than the current Roman Catholic Church?

Doesn't fermentation, for wine and for bread, mean sin?

@christophersnedeker

3 ай бұрын

The kingdom of God is like levan hid in meal...

Doesn't communion to some degree negate the individual? Is this suppose to erode the ego of the individual? This appears as a contradiction.

@jamieyoung9392

6 жыл бұрын

The ego isn't the whole individual.

@1214gooner

2 жыл бұрын

*Integration

keep working on the editing of your videos Jonathon, they're decent but there's room for improvement ;)

yeah, pretty sure Jonathan stole my favorite shirt. Much like how Jordan Peterson stole Owen Benjamin's lawn mower. I lost that shirt at a bender, bro. I want my shirt back. (I really really love your content Jonathan. I keep sharing it with pastors that I keep in contact with.)

the Communion has such interesting, cannibalistic overtones: "The one who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. The one who eats my flesh and drinks my blood resides in me, and I in him. (John 6)". Lots of magical thinking going on there. Just like when the Mayans thought that eating their enemies' hearts and drinking their blood would transfer their power to them.

@jacfalcon

6 жыл бұрын

Sometimes falsehoods and bad practices are popular because they are close to the truth, not just because of magical thinking. People looking to pornography to feel close to someone doesn't mean a real sexual relationship is magical thinking for closeness. I'm not offering a proof here, just an alternative possibility. Also, your observation is a key part of the whole narrative, actually. Cannabalism was rejected in the religion of Judaism, and many are noted as having left in scripture due to the cannabilistic overtones in Christ's message.

@Xeronimo74

6 жыл бұрын

and what would the 'real' element be in the case of the Communion?

@jacfalcon

6 жыл бұрын

Christ. It has never been fully elaborated on because the early Church and Orthodox Church have never seen reason (nor even ability, haha) to explain it. It is more than just symbol, but it doesn't meant if you went in the human stomach you'd find blood in a genetic sense. But there is a way in which there is the real aspect of Christ coming into you and joining. Probably not a satisfying answer for you, but that's it to the best of my knowledge ;)

@NorthernObserver

6 жыл бұрын

Xeronimo74 you comment is interesting because communion is the antithesis of cannibalism and all forms of religious blood sacrifice. Communion takes on the symbolic and spiritual burden of blood sacrifice and transforms it into something that can heal the world rather than create more scapegoats and cycles of violence.

@danielgradisar6817

6 жыл бұрын

Xeronimo74 this question of the truth within communion may be among the most important and interesting questions in all history.

Man ist was man isst.

A lot of this sounds so much like Vedanta that I can’t believe that Christianity is truly in opposition to it. The only difference that could be posited is the centrality of Christ to Christianity, whereas generally speaking modern Vedanta doesn’t fully grasp the importance of Christ.

Coincidence??? I think NOT!!!!

Kind of a click bait title, there, JonO. 😉 Interesting. Communion is indeed very difficult to understand. Can you cite scripture occasionally while explaining symbolism? I am trying to read the Bible again and understand it this time. Not an easy task.

@ZachJenkins

5 жыл бұрын

i think the title fits the video

Adam, Eve and Batman ….. stop teasing me so.

"Communion": But if anyone seems to be contentious, We have no such custom, nor do the churches of God. Let no one deceive himself, for " YOU" were bought at a price. Therefore glorify God in Your Body and in Your spirit, which are God's! Therefore We do not lose heart, for so also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in in corruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power : Then the Jews answered and said to Him, " Do we not say rightly that you are Samaritans and have a demon?" Jesus answered, " I do not have a demon. I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me ". But this He spoke concerning the spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive communion, for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. For then would they not have ceased to be offered ? For the worshipers, once purified, would have no more consciousness of sins ,( been in coma :) Therefore gird up the loins of Your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ, as obedient children not confirming yourselves to the former lusts as in your ignorance... for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but Righteousness and Peace and Joy in the Holy Spirit. For He who serves Christ in those things is acceptable to God and approved by Paul 😇 For You offer defiled food on My altar and then you say , " in what way have We defiled You "..? ( Luke@ 10:21 for Christ' sake )

@Pinedal

6 жыл бұрын

Nice job splicing and cutting verses together into a wall of text. Mind sharing with us what your point was?

You're a teacher not a preacher. But, if you were a preacher, I'd fellowship at your church. I believe mainstream Christianity is heading this direction.

Sharing bread and wine was quite common at Jesus' time though.

@jacfalcon

6 жыл бұрын

What statement of Pageau's are you responding to?

I dont agree. The apple of the tree of knowledge is not man made. It is God made. Jesus use two man made products. He once said that we must separate the good yeast from the bad to make good bread. He turned water into wine (the ferment). When he say "this is my flesh and blood" he means the REAL Jesus is spiritual, not a piece of lamb. Not meat. Not God made but man made. Eve's eating of the apple gave us knowledge, conscience, and free will. We are no more animals. We are what we produce. Good or bad wine and bread. The resurrection (miracle) is not physical.

@xARTi5Tx

5 жыл бұрын

Goy George Eve didn’t eat an apple, well, at least the fruit you’re referring too wasn’t an apple. Also, just as man tends the ground to produce “man made food”, so did Adam (man) tend the garden, which produced the fruit and vegetation, possibly including the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Also, the fruit gave knowledge, not consciousness and free will. Free will was needed to eat the fruit, and sin against God’s will in the first place. But, it does say their eyes were opened, so maybe it won’t be too incorrect to say it gave them consciousness.. but I’d disagree for now. But I too disagree with this video, and so far this channel. Correct me if I’m wrong, but symbolism cant really be proven to be much more than hypothetical and speculative. But interesting thoughts. In my opinion however, it’s foolish to place any hope on such thoughts. If knowledge came from eating, then what knowledge came from eating of the fruit of the garden before Adam and Eve partook of the fruit of good and evil? It appears then that only this fruit produced a knowledge, and not all food. Symbolism is built on an incomplete foundation, isn’t it? Shaky ground

@acabramzach

5 жыл бұрын

"Eve didn’t eat an apple, well, at least the fruit you’re referring too wasn’t an apple." - Andres Guitierrez The apple tree was perhaps the earliest tree to be cultivated. The origin is in Turkey. So it makes sense tu use it as a symbol of man's first manipulation of it for producing a new fruit out of it. Still, it is NOT "man made food". No more than man makes sperm out of sand or any other material. Tending a garden dont make you the garden. Knowledge is indeed con"science". And knowledge did not come from eating but from wanting to know. Eve was already disobeying when she took her decision to eat it. To want to know is already conscience. It is not the act itself, but the projection of the act in time (future). It is knowledge of time. The Word. Any fruit would have been just as good. Only God's forbidding was special. Every word is a symbol. And it is what makes man.

@xaviervelascosuarez

5 жыл бұрын

@@xARTi5Tx Adam and Eve, being created without sin, didn't have the inclination to sin, and therefore they could know no evil. After eating, that is, after sinning, their eyes are opened to evil, which is to say they were also open to good as a concept, since before the Fall, both good and evil didn't mean anything to them, who only knew God and had no inclination whatever to reject His command (which means His Love, for you can only reciprocate love if you acknowledge the true nature of your Lover: your Creator and Supreme Authority, whose every loving command is solely aimed at your infinite happiness in union to His Life giving Love, for His Love is the only source of Eternal Life). But I digress...

And so Jesus was kind of a human sacrifice to appease the angry god so he wouldn't be mad at the humans anymore?

@adamshellard6935

6 жыл бұрын

Xeronimo74 lol OK Cathy Neumann

@Xeronimo74

6 жыл бұрын

don't like my question, bro? please explain why it's not a valid one?

@jacfalcon

6 жыл бұрын

I think if you would have looked up the person Adam referenced you might have your question answered. Cathy Neumann famously took Jordan Peterson's statements and reworded them to put words in his mouth so that she could take down a straw man. I'll give you a more specific explanation though. First off, Jonathan never says in the video what you just said. You are putting that in his mouth. Secondly, that's a theological idea called substitutionary atonement, which Eastern Orthodox (of with Pageau is a member) specifically reject and find abhorrent. To your credit, however, it is the popular explanation in western traditions (Catholicism and, consequently, Protestantism), so it's heard all over as the normal explanation.

@NorthernObserver

6 жыл бұрын

Jesus showed what was true and what was false in human affairs. His life and death revealed the corruption of the world and offered a way out through his example and his Church. We his children have not always honoured his word but he is always waiting and ready to receive us. I can only point the finger at the moon, you must see it for yourself. If the Gospels are not sufficient to show you the light I can only recommend what worked for me. Rene Girard’s Things hidden Since the Foundation of the World really explained how Christian ideas transformed the world. William t Cavanaugh the Myth of religious violence made me much more skeptical of the defamation of the church by enlightenment thinkers like Voltaire and the atheists that followed him. God Bless

@Xeronimo74

6 жыл бұрын

Shea: so why did Jesus have to die? Or was that just an 'accident'?