While i agree this game wouldve been better linear, people would have complained, and now we would be getting “what if arkham origins was open world” videos

Hold on there, bucko. It was a good video and all, but you've forgotten quite a few stand-out features that really deserve to be mentioned: - A full-fledged Batcave and Alfred (Asylum only had an emergency cave, City had none and Knight had 3 random 'variants' of a cave-like hideout; Alfred here is a true character, not just a voice behind a computer) - The best cinematography out of the series, I'd say. Along with colors and thematically matching music. - Batman actually acting like 'The world's greatest detective': using his deductive skills to solve murders and crime scenes. The best detective segments in the series (Asylum had liquer/tobacco/blood trail following; City had blood trail and cold/frequency finding segments, Knight took inspiration from Origins) - Many actualy character developments, both inner and outer (Batman goes from using fear and anger to scare -> to being a beacon of hope, learning to be trustful of allies and work together; blooming relationship of Joker-Batman, Batman-Alfred, Batman-Gordon, Batman-police/people) - Deathstroke's boss needs to be appreciated even more: the best, no-nonsense, one-on-one, hand-to-hand bossfight in the series. - Unlike previous Arkham games, in Origins, it feels like there's actual ties between big players and factions of the city: police on Black Mask's payroll, with GCPD's swat bigshot Branden dealing with Sionis himself, Penguin and Black Mask's rivalry going back and forth, Sionis was having Joker followed, Joker and Bane teaming up to take down Batman)

@zorn2017

Жыл бұрын

the detective moments suck, they are long and noninteractive, the equivalent of clicking through OK prompts, same as asylum and city but way longer and more boring. the deathstroke boss fight is basically just a series of quicktime events, its so shallow and the only challenge is whether you can just press the counter button in time.

@moshymosh

Жыл бұрын

The Deathstroke bossfight borrowed heavily from the Ra's Al Ghul bossfight in City.

@laszlopados3350

Жыл бұрын

@@moshymosh Yes, WB Montreal used most of the assets from City, since they barely got a few months to develop and finish this game. I have no problems with this. That moveset works well, maybe even better with Deathstroke.

@nnnnmhughuuhhjiijj9457

11 ай бұрын

​@@zorn2017Buddy, there's only like three in the main story, I know they could've cut Riddler's one but rest were pretty intriguing.

@nnnnmhughuuhhjiijj9457

11 ай бұрын

​@@laszlopados3350I kind of wish that they had made new moveset for playable Deathstroke, instead of Deathstroke just being reskined Robin and he can't even use his sword.

I agree it would’ve made more sense to scale back the game due to continuity with his gadgets and abilities. However, Origins released offer City so it’s understandable why they went bigger.

@themadtitan7603

6 ай бұрын

I believe that's a root reason behind several of Arkham Origins' shortcomings/missed opportunities imo. They had a shorter dev time and were inheriting a series from another developer with a lot of expectations. And I think they opted for a safer route where they not only reused a lot of assets (I'm more fine with that) but decided to not risk disappointing audiences with the scale and style of the story. So they went for the same formula of one night, lots of big villains, the same gadgets, and even reused Joker as the main antagonist. I'd be more fine with reused assets and City part of the map if we got a more distinct story. Make it smaller-scale, set across a period of time (weeks/months) and have it be far more detective driven, maybe inspired by The Long Halloween as a fellow Year 2 story. And mostly center it on gangsters and the mob as the main threat in Gotham during Batman's early years. With some comic-booky "freak" villains (whom we got to know from the first two games) making their introduction as suspects for a series of murders. Set up to one day take over as Gotham's new brand of criminal. Have Gordon and a DA Dent in major supporting roles who represent the hope for a better Gotham. A story that has potential for a lot of dramatic irony and tragedy imo. Rather than another large-scale, fast-paced plot with more character moments.

Honestly, I notice more tension towards Arkham Knight than Origins. Mainly regarding the Batmobile.

Making the game level-based ala Ratchet and Clank would probably be for the best, especially as you could make Wayne Manor/the Batcave the personal hub, then turn it into a brutally difficult mission.

11:02 Actually it was called the Grapnel-accelerator in origins The predessor of the Grapnel boost. It works similarly, but slower.

@nnnnmhughuuhhjiijj9457

11 ай бұрын

Bruh, it didn't work slower than grapple boost, it's about the same speed and it doesn't make sense why he didn't have this already in Asylum.

2:57, I think both Bane fights in Origins and Mr Freeze fight in City tops that Deathstroke fight easily.

I love seeing Gotham in the winter/holiday period and hope they do something similar with a sequel to the Batman (Freeze or Mad Hatter would be excellent antagonists) Brilliant video, great work

While I do think your solution would probably help keep the bugs to a minimum, it would make the game feel too linear with no replay value, basically just uncharted with a Batman skin, and that is the last thing I want from a Batman Arkham game. The biggest issue was not the open world or traversal, it’s the bugs, and WB Montreal were unfortunately rushed to release this game. Still fun to play tho.

You can’t cut the Mad-hatter. If anything, that part needs expansion, additional maps and additional themed villains, Tweedle-dee and Tweedle-dumb.

@theonlybilge

Жыл бұрын

Tweedle-Deeznutz and Tweedle-Dumbfuck Ed: when I posted this reply, I got one of those popups from KZread that says some dumb shit like "are you suuuuure you want to post this? This seems like hawassment or buwwying :‘( 😥😥😥 boohoo very mean and sad"

hey dude you’re channel rocks. hope you can keep it up and start getting compensated for the hard work!

My only concerns with this is it would very much feel like a step backwards - we'd be forgoing the open world, side quests, and traversal of City, but then by also keeping the plot of Origins we're also throwing out the Metroid-Vania Design of Asylum in favor of a much smaller, more linear experience. Now if it turned out great that wouldn't be a problem, but if it didn't hold up as well as we hope then it would have been brutalized on release for being a downgrade over it's predecessor 2 years prior for the same price. The story would logically be expanded upon without the open world so we'd be making space for Shiva and Deadshot in the main story so that shouldn't be an issue. Interesting idea but not what I'd personally want - great video though!

@knightfallprotocol585

Жыл бұрын

I know this is close to being a year old now but I just joined this party lol. But I think you have a point. He did mention that there could be a small open world, at least for segments. Personally I think it would have been better if they would have just kept the focus on the Financial District as a small open world and had the Sionis Steel Mill bit as a separate set piece similar to Blackgate. Then they could've put more energy into development and making it more lively.

@themadtitan7603

6 ай бұрын

​@@knightfallprotocol585 I think ideally, they just should've had more sufficient time to work on the map and make it (both North & South Gotham) lively and distinct from what Rocksteady did with Arkham City. I wouldn't forgo NorGoth because the idea of seeing what's considered an old, derelict part of town by the time of the last game, almost 10 years earlier is fascinating to me. Just because it felt dead, relatively lacked content and had that long bridge leading to it because of developmental reasons & choices, doesn't mean it inherently should've been excluded imo. They could've done the above by adding pedestrians this time which also makes it distinct from RS' open-world and highlight how it's a story told in Arkham's Gotham proper and not a mental penitentiary or city prison. Added more city lights all around. And made a lot of the landmarks from AC enterable, including a lot of the locked ones. One in particular that I think was a wasted opportunity was the old GCPD building, but with all the wings open.

@knightfallprotocol585

6 ай бұрын

@@themadtitan7603 That would have been really cool to see, definitely. But with it mainly supposed to be a tie-in game just to fill the gap between City and Knight, my idea was mainly for having as much depth as possible given the time constraint they had. But yeah if it were possible, having both sides and being lively and better developed like you said would be perfect

@themadtitan7603

6 ай бұрын

​@@knightfallprotocol585 Yeah, I understand. Game Den was presenting an idea (as they tend to do) based on the limitations of the development, specifically the shorter time span. And your idea presented an alternate suggestion in that framework, I'm guessing. That's why I said ideally, when I'm rewriting/revisioning media, I tend to think more of what they could've been done had they been working in more convenient and freer circumstances, or at least, managed to somehow find a way to still pull it off even with the same restrictions. And less so in the limited circumstances that it actually did.

@themadtitan7603

6 ай бұрын

​@@knightfallprotocol585 Also this is not completely related, but speaking of this made me want to express the fundamental issue I have with Origins as a safer entry that opted to only reuse a lot of assets (I'm more fine with that) but also to not risk disappointing audiences with the scale and style of the story. So they went for the same formula of one night, lots of big villains, the same gadgets, and even reused Joker as the main antagonist. I'd be more fine with reused assets and City part of the map if we got a more distinct story. Make it smaller-scale, set across a period of time (weeks/months) and have it be far more detective driven, maybe inspired by The Long Halloween as a fellow Year 2 story. And mostly center it on gangsters and the mob as the main threat in Gotham during Batman's early years. With some comic-booky "freak" villains (whom we got to know from the first two games) making their introduction as suspects for a series of murders. Set up to one day take over as Gotham's new brand of criminal. Have Gordon and a DA Dent in major supporting roles who represent the hope for a better Gotham.

Crazy how underrated this channel is

Open world with a Rocksteady type game is always needed, and additionally the redesign in this video is silly all of the side missions are awesome, to say fix the traversal by getting rid of it is rediculous. Arkham Asylum didn't need the grapple boost as he wasn't expecting Joker to break free as Origins has access to the batcave. It's obvious he has access to more of his tech, where in asylum Joker put limits on batman's access, like how in the batgirl dlc Joker made it clear he didn't want batman to show otherwise he'd kill the commisioner. You can see how Joker applies the same rules here in the asylum with threats of bombs.

@GameDenColor

Жыл бұрын

That's not true, it's stated in Arkham City that the grapple boost is brand-new technology he just got for the first time in that game. That's why you have to work to unlock it. Batman just doesn't leave basic gadgets behind because he doesn't know he'll need them, that's silly

@mr.melonheaddd

Жыл бұрын

@@GameDenColor In arkham knight there is the freeze blast in the movie studios and the electrical charge blast in GCPD evidence lock up, this is evidence that batman does leave gadgets about, maybe not intentionally, but more optionally. The grapple boost being avaliable in city may be a plot hole, but Sir I insist you provide evidence that the grapple boost is brand new in that context. It is believable to see the boost to be put on the shelf until needed in a larger situation from Origins not needed in Asylum and a Return for the gadget in city. With love

@GameDenColor

Жыл бұрын

@@mr.melonheaddd The evidence is in the level itself, if you replay it or just watch a playthrough I assure you they outirght state it's new technology Lucius Fox just developed and Batman has to field test it with the AR glide side activities, that's why those are in the game. It's definitely a plot hole for Origins, it makes sense they wanted to use it in the game since Origins open world is partly a reskin of City, but canonically it is strange they just kind of ignore it

@mr.melonheaddd

Жыл бұрын

@@GameDenColor Thank you for the response, I mean I have just checked out arkham city where it was labelled the grapnel boost and is optional, Alfred did say lucius has the prototype, but in origins it is known as the grapnel accelerater, which is given a different name for a simular gadget I suppose, but I believe that it is possible for the batman to use gadgets at different points in time, have some gadgets in field testing and all together reapproach how a gadget works, all I am saying I can believe for the sake on continuty that the grapple boost is a seperate model to the grapple accelerator. TEDIOUS AS FUCK😂😂 Because like you I imagine mate, I have great love for these game so the making it make sense is better for everyone👌🔥

Origins should’ve just had an entirely new map without City’s map. Just have it as one large island of Gotham. I think a good size would be one of the maps from Shadow of Mordor.

Look at the suit of origins compared to aysulm the origins suit could take the g's of force

With the sad death of Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill retiring as Joker I think the new iconic duo should be Roger Craig Smith and Troy Baker

A simpler solution would have bee adding a grapnel swinging mechanic rather then removing the open world

I don't know about this game being reworked to be more like Batman Arkham Asylum. To me it just would be too much of a step down after playing Batman Arkham City, regardless of this game being a prequel. Overtime playing on PC with modded filter removal makes me love the Open World Snowy Pieces of Old Gotham. I think just giving the game a good polishing and free it of the game breaking bugs, and allow it to feel more immersive by having the cinematics be in game graphics like Batman Arkham Knight to work with any and all batsuits, would improve the game immensely. Also I feel like a Batwing that you can actually somewhat control to an extent between each pieces of Old Gotham would've been great, also maybe a Batwing Chase mission with Fire Fly would've been great. Also about the traversal I think WB Montreal felt the time crunch and didn't really have time to make the gliding and grapnel boost make sense. Yes this game is highly flawed, but it is still very much underrated and many great features, and it deserves all the newfound love it has been receiving in recent years.

Removing open world is horrible just make the grapnel boost better

I’m unsure where you got the story taking from Arkham City bit considering both are vastly different stories and also the whole timeline. Maybe you might have misspoken but Arkham Knight is set around 10 years after Origins as stated by a deleted Deathstroke quote in Knight or maybe a bit less if we are referencing the info in the wiki

@nnnnmhughuuhhjiijj9457

11 ай бұрын

Excuse me, when did he even mentioned stories being similar? I'm pretty sure, he was talking about gameplay throughout the entire video.

@themadtitan7603

10 ай бұрын

Origins has a different story but it indeed does have several beats and mission segments that noticeably parallel Arkham City's campaign imo.

I feel like if this was a reality then people would complain about Origins feeling like a downgrade from City due to abandoning everything that City expanded on from Asylum. Say what you want about Origins, but it doesn't feel like a step backwards. It feels more like taking a step forward into a pitch black room after leaving a well lit room.

Nice videos i think it could be improved upon even more (both the singular game and the franchise ad a whole) : Batman is in his first year of crine fighting and so far his gadget staff is pretty limited (batarangs, grapple gun, smoke bombs and that little computer he carriers around) . Black Mask is the main villain (for real this time) along with his False Face Society ( so hè isnt just some slightly more sadistic classic mob boss) . Batman has been going after Hin ad of lately as opposed to Falcone and Maroni because BM is a much more prominent menace ( Falcone and Maroni mostly operate through lawyers and whatnot which is harder to fight while BM isnt afraid to fo public and get his hands dirty and Batman wants to stop him before he gets too much power ). I think the overall story can be more or less the same but i' d change the assassins roster a bit ( Batman has little experience, i honestly dont think he should be able to beat Deathstroke and some other of those assassins so early in his career). So from the original game we have : Croc, Bane, and Copperhead. The new villains are: Bronze Tiger and Black Spider. Shiva and Deadshot never added much to the story so scrap them and like i said Batman shouldnt already be good enough to take on someone like Shiva and imo Firefly has too much mobility for Batman at this point. Bronze Tiger takes Deathstroke' s place and Black Spider takes Firefly' s. Bane acts as a co-antagonist through the game ( also, no tughs involved durante his boss fights) . Anyway around the end of the game Batman captures Black Mask after a mini boss fight ( essentially the one in the Red Hood DLC) and he gets locked up in Blackgate. Bane funds Bruce' s secret identity like in the original and the Last boss fight is in Wayne Manor. It can ho pretty much the same way with Bane using TN1 then getting electrocuted and losing his memory. Batman brings him to Gordon and we have the same Gordon' s speech . Freeze' s DLC can stay the same on my this time in some mid-credit scene Vicky Vale says that the city is considering re-opening the Arkham Asylum. The end Arkham Origins 2( my personal idea) : So the game opens up with Batman beating KGBeast. We learn he was enrolled by Carmine Falcone to help him in his gang war against Salvatore Maroni (Batman,who' s now almost in his fourth year of crime fighting has been going after both with the assistence of Gordon and Harvey Dent the new DA and they' ve been doing a good job at arresting their allies in the political scene meaning the two crime bosses are now resorting to their armed thugs to keep control of the streets and it war a matter of time before a full out war began) Batman interrogates him and learns Falcone' s wherabaouts. He calls Gordon and has him and his men surround Falcone' s hideout while him and Robin get inside to get Falcone (Dick is 17 in this and has been Robin fkr about 7 months). Aniway we get a stealth challenge and then a combat challenge like in Knight and Falcone gets arrested. From now on im not sure about chronological events but we have two storylines: one where Batman is going after a cop' s killer (Prometheus) and one where Robin has to go after Maroni ( with Killer Moth as the first supervillain that Robin on his own) Side missions villains are: Firefly, Mad Hatter, Riddler, Jane Doe, Catwoman, Penguin, Scarecrow, Ventriloquist and Humpty Dumpty( dialogues changing depending on the character you want to play as). Also IMO Barbara shouldnt have become Batgirl in this universe and just be Oracle (why? well why not it would be an original thing plus id' be fun to have Barbara and Dick as some mirror to Bruce and Alfred rather than both be active on the scene and speaking of Joker, he doesnt exist in this universe yet, i think Joker would work best if he appeared later in Batman' s career). At the end of the game Harvey gets scarred by Falcone and we get a DLC for him ala Mr Freeze. The plot would essentially be Two Face killing Falcone and then him going after Sofia and Alberto Falcone. His henchmen are the citizens who were ruined by the Falcone' s activities ( i think this adds a nice moral dilemma for the protagonists) Arkham Origins 3: Batman is in his 6th year, the old mob (Falcone and Maroni) has crumb led after the events of the first game and new villains have emerged, but Batman is about to face one like nothing he has ever seen before: the Joker. Jason is Robin in this one. Not sure about the details but the plot revolves around Batman and Robin going through multiple villains to try and get information on this Joker. The game ends with Joker killing Jason( for real this time) , Batman doing a number on him but letting him live and Joker saying that line he said at the end of Origins. Other Villains : Maxie Zeus, Ventriloquist, Ratcather, Great Withe Shark, Clayface, Poison Ivy. Asylum can be pretty much the same but id scrap the Titan thing and say that Joker and Scarecrow are working together (Joker breaks Scarecrow out and in exchange Scarecrow helps him to mess with Batman in the Asylum and later gives Joker a generous supply of fear toxin, and please give Bane a better design). Final boss is a brawl with normal Joker bur with Batman hallucinating due to exposure to fear gas. Once again, he comes close to killing Joker but doesnt. City can be literally the same, just say that Joker' s exposure to fear gas combined with the chemicals that altered his appaearence is what has made hin sick. For Knight, Oracle doesnt get kidnapped and the villains as Scarecrow and Hush. Batman still has those hallucinations but on a smaller scale. No Arkham Knight since Jason is really dead in my continuty, the "militia" is just an army made of the villains goones. Riddler is also not a side quest, but a main part of the story(he' s leaving riddles to Batman that trigger hallucinations). Side quests are also handled by Robin (Tim, obviously) Nightwing and Oracle while Batman, Alfred and Gordon focus on the main threat. Scarecrow gets brought in, Hush reveals himself to be Bruce Wayne and Batman has to unmask himself to discarge himself. Knightfall protocol still happens and the ending with the ghost bat is the same. Side missions can be like you imagined them( aside from the villains i think should be a main part of the story like Riddler, Penguin and Two Face).

@jadekissling

11 ай бұрын

You did great man!

@themadtitan7603

10 ай бұрын

There's a lot I love here regarding overhauling the series and the idea for an Arkham Origins trilogy. Two things I've had lots of ideas for myself. But I'm curious, how would revise City's plot overall. It noticeably gets the least coverage in your post and I'm interested in how you'd improve Hugo Strange's role and better integrate Ra's and the League (or not) into the story without undermining the former, like many complained. Also about Arkham Knight, while I get why you'd have the Robins/Oracle charge in of the side missions, I think they should be majorly involved in the main story too for this grand last outing of the Arkham series. I'd keep your idea of them doing damage control in Gotham by focusing on the side villains, but I'd also have them show up often in the story and react to big plot points, events and reveals.

That’s bold saying F Tim Allen.

My biggest gripe with this game was the overuse of Joker. WB Montreal should’ve stuck with Black Mask.

The gameplay is a step down. Combat feels lighter and the sound effects aren't as satisfying. Still fun, but City is far superior. Predator sections are often huge which spreads out takedown opportunities and makes it likely a blind player is going to use silent takedowns. Exploring the map isn't as fun because of bad design choices (Pioneer's Bridge) and everything blends together. City did a great job of organizing the map in a way that I wouldn't even need the map to traverse on a repeat playthrough. With all of this said, it's still fun. If you liked City, Origins is basically more of City's gameplay with a story that is entertaining enough to get you through.

Why not just make a playable batjet. By either playing a sound with a click of the button to summon the plane. You can just attach to it. Tired of traversal just manual batjet to fix it.

@GameDenColor

Жыл бұрын

That would be sick

Wouldn’t it be easier to just make the gliding like arkham knight? And there are worse things than the traversal like the challenge system and the bugs.

@gonkdroidgaming6984

6 ай бұрын

Or they could have added the batmobile just for traversal

I prefer this change, it would make the game better.

Actually the title of Origins is becuase this story is the origins for how arkham reopened with all these supervillians showing up

Or the fact he has those damn gadgets is cuz HE IS NEW and is more than likely trying to compensate 😮

The traversal never bothered me. Everything was so perfect in Arkham City that I really didn’t mind using those same gameplay mechanics again in Origins. I had the same gripe with the grapnel boost, but I felt like a single, mostly redundant plot hole shouldn’t impact my enjoyment of the game. And with the whole idea of Origins having a younger and inexperienced Batman, I actually liked how it was more challenging to traverse a larger and more grandiose map than City.

Ah, how did you know that your lunacy and smart way of redesigning this game made me want to marry you? I haven't even bought the ring yet

@GameDenColor

2 жыл бұрын

Let's just say a little birdie told me 😏

Ima huge arkham fan I've been playing arkham since I was Like 4 but I agree orgins is one if the worst but it's better than asylum in my ipnion

imo this is my favourite out of the arkham franchise

@GameDenColor

2 жыл бұрын

Respectable

@etabiansosin

Жыл бұрын

@@GameDenColor I hope you can make videos rewriting some missions, the main story and boss fights for Arkham City in the near future.

You lose a lot of content taking out the open world, maybe instead of gliding u can traverse with parkour as its early years make a new game mechanic like assassins creed and maybe a swing rope you have to charge up and release for wider jumps off roof tops can still glide but can grapple boost if there’s more skill in Traversal could be like it’s own mini game which wouldn’t make it feel tedious getting from a to b

@thenoirknight5729

6 ай бұрын

This could be cool

hey dude you’re channel rocks. hope you can keep it up and start getting compensated for the hard work!

hey dude you’re channel rocks. hope you can keep it up and start getting compensated for the hard work!