I remember when I got out of the military people asked me about the weapons I used. I was a 203 gunner so I had the 203 underslung on my M4, had the Aim CompM4, PEQ-15, and a flashlight all attached to my weapon. When I mentioned this peoples eyes would go wide in awe about how I had all these 'cool' attachments and how awesome the rifle must of have looked. I quickly reminded them that all that gear made my rifle both heavy, and especially front heavy. It was cool at the range, but not after long marches or live fire exercises.

@BigFatNasty

2 жыл бұрын

Why did you have to run a PEQ box? For NVGs?

@knrz2562

2 жыл бұрын

Correct you really don't need all that only for extreme long ranges very cumbersome its good to run a gun just bare bones stock lazers optics are all good but it doesn't matter 😉 U can gucci it up but won't shoot as good as the person operating it...

@michaelw2263

2 жыл бұрын

@@knrz2562 Lol I suppose. Each piece served a purpose and I didn't have a choice what was attached to it. I was just responsible not to lose it.

@Mikebumpful

2 жыл бұрын

Makes me think of all the cosplayers running around with Barretts… When maneuvering in the actual field, looking «macho» becomes less important.

@michaelw2263

2 жыл бұрын

@@Mikebumpful I've handled a Barrett once at a range. I would never, ever, carry it for an extended period of time. Let alone want to add a bunch of accessories. Same for something like the 249/Mk46. It's all cool at a parade or in garrison, but no fun in the field.

I've really liked this series. Bringing Jonathan on really levelled this show up. Looking forward to more.

@Jason-jb1vs

2 жыл бұрын

everyone now know Jonathan is GOAT

Foregrips: how they help on the accuracy of the gun? We often see Vertical, Angled, the hand stopping one, a stubby, there are a lot of sizes and shapes. In real life it's more down to a personal preference or they actually perform different like we see on Call of Duty where one is better for hip fire and others are good for accuracy, sustained fire... I kinda know the answer but would be cool to know Jonathan thoughts on it and educate us more about this topic. Love this series thanks Dave and Jonathan.

@chris.3711

2 жыл бұрын

It's mainly down to confort and personal preference. Only vertical grips when actually held by the grip itself seema to have proven to be the most negative as it doesn't let a shooter handle the gun as well as they could be.

@afd19850

2 жыл бұрын

so angled foregrip on an AR allows you to C-clamp the front of the rifle and get more control on the rifle. Its the same with vertical grip but its all about comfort and personal preference as Chris. says. Hand stop is just that, it stops your hand from getting too near muzzle and again is personal preference.

@swimmerdude299

2 жыл бұрын

I would also add that when using a foregrip that you can use it to push into the top of a wall or a window sill and help stabilize the weapon by really leaning into it. This can help control recoil a lot and get fast follow up shots in my experience in competition shooting.

@robertpatter5509

2 жыл бұрын

Adds stability. You hold the VG and pull the rifle tight into your shoulder. This makes it more stable.

@JarlBSoD

2 жыл бұрын

I know i am a bit late to the show but here is how i run some of my rifles. My AR15 has no foregrip at all, The hanadguard i use is slim enough and i use it for "DMR" OR "SPR" or whatever you want to call it so i have a bipod on it. On my MCX i use a magpul handstop because i find on that girthy handguard that it works best for me. On my 8" MPX i have a handstop at the front (yes losing fingers is a thing even on an 8" barell so :p) and a short vertical grip. I don't use the vertical grip as a handle but i use it to sort of.. wedge my hand bewettn it and my handstop, makes for a real nice and stable grip for me. The only rifle i use a vertical grip on is my modernized VZ58, and that is because.. well it is the only rifle i feal comfortable using a vertical grip on. So, for me it is all down to the type of rifle, how the handguard is shaped etc etc.

In regards to drum mags. As gamers we seldom have to think about how we are supposed to carry spares. Disregarding them being more prone to issues with feeding and such, a big issue is that designing good pockets to hold them without taking up more space than necessary and not being awkward. Which incidentally isn't as much a consideration for various types of gangsters and police guys who used the thompson before WW2. I doubt either brought spare drums to any shootout.

@SynthLizard8

2 жыл бұрын

**Kills a single enemy with a burst** -> **Reloads 90% full LMG**

@heeeeeyyyyyyyyy

2 жыл бұрын

Often only one drum would be in use, with further reloads being from stick mag.

@carsonm7292

2 жыл бұрын

I think a lot in this context about an anecdote I read once by someone who had what he thought was the bright idea to bring a c-mag to an airsoft event. Whenever it wasn't in use it was an enormous bulk to carry on his person, and caused major problems when he needed to for example belly crawl. I believe he physically hurt himself at one point when he tried to dive for cover and the thing jammed into him from his kit.

@gabesgaming7064

Жыл бұрын

I always imagine my guy with a backpack with a least two drums. Would be cool if games showed you like reaching back and grabbing one.

Can we get a video talking about different optics? Acogs, holographic and red dots, maybe even portrayal of night vision in video games

This reminds me of hearing about people complain about the weight of being the guy with the 40mm underbarrel grenade launcher. It's so easy forget that everything you slap on a gun is something you have to carry around, and have to lift up over and over again to aim or reload.

I haven't played Tarkov but played a bit of MW19, the attachments are represented *fairly* well. When you start adding extended magazines and longer barrels on your ARs, they REALLY start slowing down. Awful ADS speeds and even slowing the actual player down. So there is *some* sense of realism that they're going after. My biggest beef though is there representations of long barrels and heavy barrels. They reduce recoil more than anything as well as drastically increasing your bullet velocity. They would do that but not really to the extend portrayed. If anything, the heavy barrels should be improving your Spread. But COD doesn't really deal with Spread outside of Vanguard. So I get why they went with recoil instead because that's reducing your "Spread".

@caprise-music6722

2 жыл бұрын

But if you remove the stock of an AR, it’s as controllable as an MP5 WITH stock. That’s just disappointing.

@Cooltech06

2 жыл бұрын

Agree I think MW2019 hit like the right spot as it's attachments are fun and simple to play around with while being pretty realistic. But I do agree that AR should be less controllable with no stock than an MP5 as people are just gonna abuse this. Finally the "no attachment" came challenge is like the cherry on top for me as it challenges you to do well without being spoiled with attachments...

@caprise-music6722

2 жыл бұрын

@@Cooltech06 I love that no attachment challenge. Very fun. Cuz the weapons are good stock too. Just at a slight disadvantage against other players. But that’s what makes it fun imo

@jakelee7083

2 жыл бұрын

Also the fact that attachments stack multiplicatively. I think the P90's max bullet velocity in MW2019 is like over 2000 m/s which is ridiculous even for most rifles.

Really enjoyed this series, bringing Jonathan in was a great shout. Looking forward to the next series

I think a strong reason that Drum Mags are so popular in games beyound the lack of weight and jams, is that in video games you might fire 10 or so rounds then change out their C-mag for a full one. The 90 you fired just magically get combined with the two or three Mags that have 2-3 in them to be full the next time you go to reload.

Props to the hosts for practicing gun safety even though I’m sure they don’t have live ammo.

@georgeyoung3791

2 жыл бұрын

Always treat a gun as if it's loaded, even if it isn't.

@megagamernick9883

2 жыл бұрын

@@georgeyoung3791 exactly the sad thing is i see a lot of people never do that.

@liviuganea4108

2 жыл бұрын

Alec Bald

@DarthFerder

2 жыл бұрын

@@megagamernick9883 accidents always happen with guns that „i thought wasn‘t loaded“

@megagamernick9883

2 жыл бұрын

@@DarthFerder no kidding first rule treat every gun like it’s loaded.

Thanks Jonathan and Dave for educating so many. Looking forward to your return.

Thompson drum mag worked well for Police and Gangsters operating from vehicles, but lugging them around in the field would have been so heavy, I can see why it was abandoned. Aren't C-mags and drums in general unreliable at feeding?

@RandarTheBarbarian

2 жыл бұрын

So in general any point in which 2 points converge into 1 is less than ideal from a reliability standpoint as it leaves opportunity for things to get hung up. Double stack single feed magazines like you'd find in most modern pistols, even with all the good designs of the modern era, suffer more problems than a single stack single feed magazine, or a double stack double feed magazine (meaning the top round whichever side it's on stays above the stack below it and can be fed from either the right or left position). This follows the rule with basically every machine which is that every point of added complexity must also add a potential point of failure which has to be mitigated. With C mags from the fullest point you're taking a pair of double stacks, slimming each down to a single stack, then combining those back into a double stack with an eventual double feed and relying on 2 separate coiled springs to push everything through. This adds several points of failure not present in a simple box magazine, in terms of both feeding complexity and for parts breakages (and oh boy my favorite story about drums is the 22lr 110rd drum for my GSG 5 breaking a plastic feed lip under pressure and spewing its guts all over before the follower hit the end and broke). But there are different designs that vary in mechanical complexity and have their own problems, and like I said problems can be mitigated with appropriate effort, but even the idea of having something that curves around is inherently more complex than not doing that.

Thanks for this season of Loadout! Enjoy your time off this project and your time on other projects!

Enjoyed watching these, It's a good series as an addition to Johnathon reacting to firearms in games, hope to see it come back! Thanks to everyone involved.

Great stuff can't wait for the next epsiodes.

Have him do a part 2 reaction to 2019’s COD Modern Warfare! Have him focus on the gunsmith and DLC guns!

@YellowDogWithCone

2 жыл бұрын

I agree! It would be cool to see him react to some of the crazier guns like the Sykov, the SP-R 208 and the FiNN LMG

Looking forward to the next episodes!

Weight is always a factor in actual use weapons. Ounce equals pounds and pounds equals pain. At the same time, an "ultra-light" gun is going to bring its own problems, from heat-management due to extended fire, to recoil management due to being so light you go off target almost instantly, etc, etc.

I am surprised by how well Dave handles weapons for a youtube show host, great job man. Also great episode.

Love the amount of BF4 footage. Still play it.

Jonathan and Dave are legends.

Hellyeah!! Loved to see Sig represented.😎👍🏻

Would like to see the reaction to the masterkey underbarrel pump shotgun.

can we get longer episodes I love this series so much

Can't wait for the new season, I've enjoyed this one! As for an idea for what to do next, how about looking at equipment and gadgets that FPS games use to differentiate themselves and their real life counterparts/inspiration. Start with the humble frag and flash, then look at stuns, decoy grenades and 9bangs an such. A talk about how ballistic shields are used IRL, breaching charges, a look at grapple hooks and other realistic equipment. Then finally a look into the whacky like Battlefields Pokeballs and CoDs detection grenades and other detection equipment, remote/AI operated gun turrets, wingsuits and jet packs, hologram devices, active camo and so on. A more brutal episode could look at melee weapons used in the firearms age so things like bayonets and trench shovels and clubs but also officers swords and the swords of cavalry troops. Probably a harder episode to film and get hands on with the equipment but a look into the facts around killstreaks could be interesting. Have a look into how the mantra "steel not flesh" came to be and how that developed from artillery barrages to bombing runs to close air support and the modern combined arms doctrine that's used today. Then have a look at how those are used in games such as CoD but also games like Battlefield that have also implemented them in some capacity.

You have to admit, the drum mag use in tarkov makes it clear how annoying it actually is. Most important point is volume and weight. The drum mag weighs a lot more and weight does affect player movement a lot. The size of the drum is taken into consideration, needing more space to store and carry, which restricts the selection of rigs to those that have the necesarry space, if you don't want to pick it up after each reload. And most bothersome of all is reloading the magazine with new bullets. The reload speed of the drum mags is a lot slower than repacking a regular magazine, which is important, when you need to keep moving.

@bubba200874426

2 жыл бұрын

Ignoring the insurance mechanic making them easier to just dump wherever, starting with a drum in the gun and switching to stick mags afterward is also realistic.

If you ever make your own channel, I'll be there. Thanks for the weekly content.

I think the element of weight is quite an interesting one in terms of near-future settings, be they video games or books or movies. Firearms are pretty much as good as they need to be right now. There’s a reason the M16 has been in use for ~60 years. But finding new materials to make gunsights and weaponry out of that make the weak lighter and more resilient, even if they’re not groundbreaking, is a pretty major benefit. If Soldier A and B have rifles with a longer, thicker barrel and a scope, but Soldier B’s weights a kilo less or whatever, even though it’s not a flashy advantage, it IS an advantage

Dope channel 🎉

Hmmm, perhaps the way VR games simulate weight (pulling the player's hands down and slowing down your movement, forcing the player to compensate) could be used to simulate the bulk and off-centering that adding an attachment causes? Rather than using a canned iron-sights animation, it could be physically-simulated so things like front-heavy rifle having a tendency to dip down before the player character is able to level it out?

So happy they put the best fps for most clips. BF4

It has always driven me insane that the ACOG sights in games don't actually work like ACOG sights, like all of the stadia lines are just their to look cool. Also, I carried an underslung m203 on my M16 and my M4, with the M4 I had to learn to shoot by feel because my optic covered the 203 leaf sight; what has always frustrated me about grenade launchers in game is that I used to carry 30+ rounds for them, not 2 or 3 like the games give you. One thing you didn't mention about drum mags, but that I think is huge, is that they are hard to carry on your kit, box magazines on the other hand work great. Drums do have a utility in fixed defensive positions though (like guard towers, etc), when you don't have to worry about moving around with them.

@hannibalkills1214

2 жыл бұрын

I've heard about M203 grenadiers never actually using the leaf sight because they could never work it out, yet still land their shots accurately by 'feeling' because of the slow and predictable arc. Was it true in your case?

@JohanCody

2 жыл бұрын

@@hannibalkills1214 exactly! Its like throwing a baseball but the throw is identical every time, the only variable you have to worry about is the wind. You would also bracket it like a mortar, one goes short, you go a little further, too far, bring it in a bit, bam, right on target.

The US Marines experimented with Jim Sullivan's drum magazine that was similar to the beta c mag. The body was polymer and the magazine tower was steel. But when Marines were house clearing, they would hit a doorway with their drum and it would snap off, spewing a third of their ammo load out into the air with a stub of magazine stuck in the well. Drums are hard and uncomfortable to carry.

ground branch is another game where the weight of the attachments has an effect on the accuracy of the play. the more longer the gun is aimed without bringing it to the ready postion the more sway happens.

This is the content I expected from the original video' title.

I would love to see the history of attachements both IRL and Video Games.

That man is a national treasure

I'd love a full length doco done by you with Jonathan about all aspects of weaponry in videogames. I was going to ask why you seemed flat Dave then I heard the closing news :(

This is like Objectivity, except about weapons and games, and focused. instead of just a random, but amazing stroll through history.

Fun fact: dutch military police SF uses drum mags on their HK416's. These are units with a protective role, be it VIPs or Transports

I think it's time Jonathan tackled the guns of STALKER games :)

I have shoot a man size papertarget in the "Chest". with a Rifleganate fired from a H&K G3. so it was kind of guess work and I was expecting to hit in the front of the target.

Pls do a crossbow and handmade weapon episode!!

Just kitted out my latest fire team in Arma 3. Suppressors all round (even on the pistols); exotic scopes... WICKED! OPFOR don't stand a cat-in-Hell's.

It was the same with the shotguns the other week. Most players don't expect guns in video games to behave exactly as they would in real life because they just have no experience of what that would actually be. What they expect is for them to behave the way they do in movies and other video games. I do still think there's more room in the video game market for truly realistic guns in an FPS, but that's always going to be a niche thing and not something you're ever likely to see in something like a COD or Battlefield game.

Dope

Can you make video on different barrel designs, flash hiders/ compensators, and sights(scopes, acog, red dot, daylight powered sights, night sights). Destiny 2 has different barrel perks that affect the weapon characteristics like smooth bore, full bore, arrowhead brake, etc… and no one really talks in detail about these.

Oh lovely

great series but one point that bothers me more than it should: the MCX doesn't look like it's set to safe

I do love dolling up an AR-15 😅 so many things to add and change. You really can make your rifle your own. Tailor it for what you want to use it for.

@lukegray2835

Жыл бұрын

It's the Barbie doll for middle aged men!

Hmmm taking insparation for my game

Ever notice how it’s “what I played” not what I’ve shot or seen in real life

@BoomBoomBrucey

2 жыл бұрын

Yes because he's the video game expert and Johnathon is the firearms expert

@stevemc6010

2 жыл бұрын

Dave mentions shooting a DEagle in the US, so he's been a gun tourist.

This has to be my favorite series on KZread. Advancing the gun culture and bringing in a new generation of gun enthusiasts. Preserve the 2nd amendment at all costs

Because of mismanagement and supply quirks, a lot of US Army trainees don't get to shoot a grenade launcher, not even chalk practice rounds until they're in theater.

Johnathan should start his own youtube channel

@taxevasion4870

2 жыл бұрын

Check out the Royal Armouries channel

Sling loop on the SA80 is on the wrong side FYI

If there is any foreign veterans in the comment tell if you have ever seen any of your buddies(or yourself) aiming an underbarrel gl, or even a tripod version like AGS17, cause i haven't. We always "eye-balled" the shot. After first 20 shots you kinda know its flight pattern and most of the time you don't even know where your target is, like you just know a general area but not exact square meter where they shoot from if that makes sense. Even with trenches and dugouts they can move left right and backwards. Unless you have a stationary automatic GL and a drone or FO, but that's not what the video is about. 35-th OBMP, Odessa.

Time to load up some bf4

is there a similar museum in the US?

Would like to see jonathan react to garand thumb mosin nagant video

what do different barrels do? why use a flash hider when a suppressor hides flash completely and increases muzzle velocity. do flash hiders actually reduce recoil? what are the differences between grip types

@callsigncoyote7931

2 жыл бұрын

1: heavy barrels heat up slower from automatic fire 2: flash hiders are cheaper than suppressors, and in the US civilian market suppressors are highly regulated. 3: flash hiders don’t, muzzle breaks do. 4: It’s just personal preference

@chris.3711

2 жыл бұрын

Heavy barrels reduce recoil and increase accuracy. Surpressors increase barrel length. Compensators are better for recoil control. As far as grips are concerned, mostely for comfort. But different textures increase grip and reduce slippage of the hand.

@lucious8675

2 жыл бұрын

@@callsigncoyote7931 then whats the difference between compensators and muzzle brakes? Thx everyone for the replies!

@chris.3711

2 жыл бұрын

@@lucious8675 Flash surpressor works for the intended purpose of reducing visible flash or report of a firearm. A compensator works to actively reduce weapon recoil and increase accuracy.

@KanshunGanshun

2 жыл бұрын

@@lucious8675 Compensators typically have slots or ports facing upwards, gas venting in that direction helps reduce the amount the muzzle climbs upwards after firing a round. Brakes typically are vented in a way that directs energy forward slightly, reducing the amount of recoil into the shooter's shoulder. So they do similar things, but differ in where they are directing energy. And often a muzzle devices can be brake/compensator combinations that do both to a certain degree. Then as Chris said, flash suppressors disperse gas in a manner that makes the powder still burning once it exits the barrel (or flash) less noticeable

I'd like some kind of Jonathan Ferguson charm to add to my rifle IRL. I bet he'd love to hate that!

God I want John's job.

Speaking of weight, what about drum magazines hanging all that weight off a catch meant to hold 15-20% as much?

@JollyMcSwaggins8009

2 жыл бұрын

Magazine catches aren't built to barely hold a 30 round mag. They are very robust mainly because they're often just a hung of steel that the mag is held in place by. The magazine catch of the majority of weapons has little to no real strain on it, and any strain a heavier mag would put on it would be incredibly negligible

Moar load out soon pleeeeeezzzz!!!!!!

Tacticool is the only way to go

sooo when we gonna have even more and more guns of escape from tarkov, they add 6 new weapons in the last patch

please review the guns of Ghost Recon Breakpoint.

Jonathan looks like Dr. Strange (Benedict Cumberbatch) 😃

Ρersonally, my favourite attachment is the potato.

I very much like seeing Dave using proper trigger discipline. Johnathan too. I know these weapons are unloaded, but even still, good job!

@Lowtan

2 жыл бұрын

Unloaded or not trigger discipline is a must.

@jamesallred460

2 жыл бұрын

@@Lowtan totally. This is why I think education surrounding firearms is a must. There would be far less accidents, tragedies, etc if learning about the proper use of weapons was required learning.

@Lowtan

2 жыл бұрын

@@jamesallred460 preaching to the choir. Teaching children from a young age is a must.

@jamesallred460

2 жыл бұрын

@@Lowtan for sure. And just because they learn it doesn't mean that they have to own one, but at least they'll know what to do if they end up around a weapon. Glad I'm not the only person who thinks this way!

@hellishcyberdemon7112

2 жыл бұрын

@@jamesallred460 well if we didnt have such a culture of being terrifed of guns maybe we might actually get somewhere

And gamespot become an armery channel

"M79 gunners in Vietnam would learn to aim by instinct and experience, like an archer". Unless they're shooting bare-bow, archers use sights (target archers, at least). They adjust them up and down for what range they're shooting at. During practise, you work out what heights of sight setting correspond to what distance and mark it on the front of the sight, and then in competition you adjust your sight to the distance you need.

@DavidChong

2 жыл бұрын

contemporary archery sure, but I imagine he was thinking about when archers were a big deal in actual warfare, like Agincourt or somesuch.

I feel like red dot sights are almost required for aiming in many games when ironsights obscure the target and everything slightly below them, and leave very tiny holes to look through One way I think ironsights could be much much better is to move the camera even closer and magnify much much more than they do normally.

@wabisabi7755

2 жыл бұрын

@Scaucy man 2.0 Back off, he's mine! 😂 (Or we can share)

Yea, attachments are only gonna get dumber. Games are in an arms race (zing) for more customization, more unlocks, more microtransactions, and more KZread click-bait. It will expand even if it hurts the gameplay because you have to have more.

The red dot sight was 50 cents DLC in CoD 🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️

"Six pounds in old money"

Reacting to Warframe could be cool, if the selection of guns makes use of his expertise

The reason game dev don't make the sights for grenade launchers better is because the player would be OP with it. People would over use and abuse the accuracy, and every game with that mechanic in it would devolve into grenade launcher battles.

Ugh. Just hearing that the SA80 was tested with a beta-c drum mag makes me wanna throw up.

Why don't you create loadouts for games so those who want a more immersive or realistic experience can enjoy.

MP55555555

Callmekevins evil older brother

I do not like the gunsmith they added to Call of Duty I would like it better if they would allow you to lock in the appearance of a weapon so attachments don't change the weapons look but they don't

To be onest im a dmr person i ned a ACOG scope and grip bipod mix flash light and red lazer box for my M16A2 +A4 3 round burst and semi for situations and a supressor for silent attack an 15 + 9mm side arm supressd with a flash light to help me in my missons

The only recurring show Gamespot does and it's hardly about video games....

@Madjo-qj2ge

2 жыл бұрын

Weapons on video games

Dave is so out of touch 😂

I feel kind of bad for the host. He sounds defeated in this episode. Although Jonathan does pretty will carrying it through.

These guys have as much chemistry as Israel and Palestine.

@bigangenbygang

2 жыл бұрын

Not true. No one has shot a child and claimed they were a terrorist yet!

Both of those men need to shave their beards off. Very unprofessional and unhygienic.