I just noticed now while looking at the art for the final form... The Sorceress Ultimecia upside down is a human being! It shows a complete human form, even with normal hands. The upper half has all the magical/beastly/demon aspects the Sorceresses have shown: horns, claws, and wings. But, the upper half is hollow, lacking a face, heart, lungs. In their place there are glowing circles, which correspond to the locations of chakra points. There's a glowing face for the third eye, a blue gem at the heart chakra, and smaller glowing part in the solar plexus chakra. Veins, such as the one's Edea had, shown in the cut scene, are connecting the two "bodies". "It's to be expected that the "magic of Hyne" could not be found. Because of people's feelings at that time, it concealed itself in bodies, in the form of women, people who it was thought should be protected." -Aru Hi no Garden no Jugyō Fūkei The magic of Hyne had left it's former "body" it bargained away, and it went to hide inside women. When those women had their magic awakened, natural magic users, they were known as Sorceresses. These fragments of Hyme's magic that lived inside Sorceresses, under Hyme's influence and manipulation, were trying to find a way to reunite. The goal of Time Compression was to bring all of Hyme's second half, to where his other half was, using the singularity of time. But, it was not just time, the space, was also contorting. This reverses an expanding universe, into a contracting one. That would continue shrinking space, until you reach at situation like "The Big Bang" where all matter converged. Hyme's idea was to, from this point, recreate the universe, a fresh start for Hyme. After being defeated by his creations, forced into hiding, this was the way to reconsolidate his separated "selves".

The final boss is zell's hotdog

@baguettefantasy

2 жыл бұрын

They were originally "bread" in japanese, some of those "melon pans" and other stuffed bread treats. In french, they were "changed" to.... *drum rolls*... pretzels. Don't ask me why, FF8 and 9's french localisations were some of the weirdests in the series.

@suprizeoptomist4680

Жыл бұрын

Can't fight a boss that never shows up.

@wwabbd1987

Жыл бұрын

Underrated Comment

@75190255508

Жыл бұрын

@@baguettefantasy Melon pan is not a stuffed bread *wink wink*

Great video. I’ve got two bits to add. Firstly on the bottom half of Hyne being linked to “geology”. There is a theory out there that suggests the lower half of Hyne was the “physical” half (which also helps explain why sorceresses have knights, to provide brute force rather than magic). The reference to geology may be a hint towards the deep sea excavation site where Ultima Weapon can be found. If you look at Ultima Weapon, it is the direct opposite of final form Ultimecia (prominent lower body, strong physical attacks, weaker upper body). Interesting theory but does leave a small plot hole around what / who Omega weapon is! Secondly, Ultimecias last words are in my opinion a way to trick the protagonists to think about their childhood. This allows them to “travel” to the orphanage in the past (in a time compressed environment) to meet Edea who in turn receives Ultimecias powers. If you don’t go to the orphanage in the past, then how can Ultimecia (as a vessel of Hyne) transfer her powers and die? In doing so it creates a time paradox but allows Hyne to go on living infinitely.

I have played this game through half a dozen times and this is the first time I've ever heard about that schoolteacher on the White SeeD ship. They REALLY don't want you to find some of these plot points...!

@Ranixo286

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I guess they're going for "Ludonarrative Synergy" about how strict SeeD protocol is because if you go out of your way for a lot of secrets your rank can get deducted. But I guess it kinda hammers home one of the themes of the game that sometimes (but not ALL the time) you have to break the rules even if there's backlash.

@baguettefantasy

11 ай бұрын

@@Ranixo286 I was wrong about the first legend, it relies ENTIRELY ON RNG. I just so happened to save at the "right number in the RNG seed/series" that would guarantee ME that the old man and his grand daughter would be there if I repeated what I did in the video. But after trying to force the RNG to move (getting in and out of the Garden before putting on the SeeD uniform, etc), I didn't get the old man and his grand daughter in their house when going back from the port. I'm sorry and I really didn't want to mislead/deceive people really. The old man won't talk about the first legend anymore after the town has been occupied by Galbadia, so in the end, you can easily miss it if you're not going in and out of the town to manipulate the RNG.

This has a strong Final Fantasy X Maechen vibe and I love it! Also, mind freaking blown

@baguettefantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Because of the beard or the accent?

@AlexMoukalaMusic

3 жыл бұрын

@@baguettefantasy The charisma!

This is so good. Can't believe I took the time to watch the whole thing. I LOVE the lore of FFVIII and the fact that you really have to dig to get it.

Amazing job! But plz make it longer I have loads of time to sleep and I'm intrigued

@baguettefantasy

3 жыл бұрын

I know you're joking but I actually cut some stuff out.

I like the idea that it turns out everything was being masterminded by Hyne the whole time. If you look at Ultmecia's final form she looks as if she is being junctioned almost enslaved to something else. I think that is Hyne. It mentions Hyne giving up half his body and that became the sorceress. Well Ultemcia is making up the other half of the final forms body.

Fantastic video, great job! I believe ultimecia is actually using her powers (curse of Hyne) against Hyne by attempting to force time compression to occur, creating a singular timeline in which only she exists, therefore ending the sorceress powers with her since she has no one to pass on to, SeeD no longer exists which means squall never attempts to murder her, and the power of Hyne no longer exists...with this motive, ultimecia is easily the overlooked hero of the FF8 story, allowing a calculated string of events to occur where she uses Squall as a pawn in a much greater plot...

@baguettefantasy

Жыл бұрын

That's a really interesting idea. I'm personally not too fond of the trend of "reforming/redeeming villains" but I do admit that Ultimecia's story seems tragic, if we consider that she was a puppet of Hyne's. FF Mobius tried something about giving her more backstory but I haven't played it, I just got some infos from someone who played. Considering that Kazushige Nojima was the story writer for Mobius, maybe he genuinely tried.

Loved that! Great work on all the research it must have taken

@baguettefantasy

5 ай бұрын

Thank you very much! If you plan on sharing that video, remember to recommend starting at the 20:24 mark if they don't have the patience to sit through the first half that's mostly "rambling about localisation nonsense" !

Lol I do believe Selphie is the main villain. Ultimecia is Selphie in the future, in the game Selphie is very violent and there are major red flags of evil

Extremely interesting, keep up the good work!

19:13 this adds new light on something. It feels as if Ultemcia wanted to lose and the current wisdom was so she could start a time loop. Maybe the reasons he wanted to die so that Hyne's power died with her.

This is awesome! I love how we can find these details years later. It is too bad they don’t always put more world building and backstory into the game literature or journals (information section of the information section lol)

Great video man! super interesting, Amazing how you can still learn things all these years later I'm going to replay FF8 after watching this. Keep the videos coming. Subbed 👍

Very interesting information about Hyne. Thanks, I have to give you credit for all the long gaming hours and research you did to find out more about this Hyne.

excellent work.

Amazing video, I must have played FFVIII around 20 times and I've never noticed any of this!

@baguettefantasy

Жыл бұрын

Don't beat yourself over it. As I said, it looks like the game's plot was changed or tinkered with a bit too late in development, leaving a lot to be ironed out. Hyne's story/legend feels like it should have been more or was more but was toned down. One of the best examples is the time discrepancy regarding the Lunar Tear that destroyed the Centra civilisation "apparently overnight" and the survivors migrated to what would become Esthar. When you speak with one of the technicians on the Space Station, he says that the Lunar Tear fell 100 years ago, but the ingame "Information section of the Information section" states that it happened 80 years ago.

Found your video from a Gamefaqs comment. This is awesome man! Please keep making more.

@baguettefantasy

2 жыл бұрын

Now I feel bad for only going on Gamefaqs for CyricZ Yakuza guides... thanks to whoever talked about my video ^^

Haha vraiment énorme ! Une bonne barre de rire et plein de choses intéressantes ! Merci pour ce bon moment :)

@baguettefantasy

6 ай бұрын

J'apprécie le commentaire mais c'est la version anglaise ici, alors ça parait bizarre de voir un commentaire vf ^^'

@YueNoKizu

6 ай бұрын

Ah y’avait une version Fr ? 😅

@baguettefantasy

6 ай бұрын

Ouais, "Baguette Fantasy" est la version anglaise et "Baguette Fantasy FR" est la version originale en vf. Les vidéos sont quasiment les mêmes à part des blagues que je ne peux pas toujours "localiser", forcément. Donc si tu as déjà regardé la version anglaise, te tracasse pas, va !

Great work 🎉. Its great that FF8 never spoon-fed this info to you like you were a toddler. You actually had to put some good effort to piece the story together. Its more rewarding because of that. Its one of the few games that catered to those with an above average IQ.

These fan theories are infinitely better than the more popular ones like R=U or squall is dead. There’s a lot of research and actual evidence for these thought experiments

@baguettefantasy

11 ай бұрын

For a good minute I thought your profile pic was Freddy Mercury. To be fair, those popular theories came from a time and place where everyone liked to come up with "dark and gritty what ifs" kind of theories. "What if this character was in a comma and everything was a dream?". "What if Mario had a gun? What if all of his adventures were just him tripping on LSD and mushrooms?" I still kinda like "Rinoa becomes Ultimecia" but just like my own theories in this videos, there are flaws that have to be overlooked to work properly. I don't mind "head canons", I just don't like when people want to push them as true. That's why I insisted so much on "these are just my theories and opinions" throughout the video.

Excellent video friend

nice video, i thought of hyne as a hero that got rid of the monsters. i figured the other half was what became the monsters id never have known because i don't know japanese that he's ff8's ganondorf. thanks

Given how Hyne was said to have "reduced the number of humans" being able to draw a spell called Apocalypse from Ultimecia's final form gives a lot of support to your idea here. Also fantastic job this is the best Final Fantasy video I've seen in years.

Damn you translation issues!! Great video, thanks.

Very sound, I agree.

There was always something strangely captivating about Final Fantasy VIII's world, like there was something big going on, but the game wasn't telling me. Even with the popular Rinoa theory adding some emotional weight to the story, it always felt like something was missing. Now, with this explanation the story finally feels complete. The world-building wasn't missing. It was just bizzarely well-hidden and fumbled due to localization issues. It kinda explains the reliance on datalog entries in XIII. With such a lore-dense world, they must have wanted to avoid the confusion that VIII left people with. Regardless, this video proves to me that Final Fantasy VIII deserves a remake, so it can have a second chance to tell its grand story that got so borked the first time around.

@baguettefantasy

Жыл бұрын

In my opinion, if they remake 8, there's only 2 ways to go on about without ruining everything like they're doing with 7. Either they try to make Hyne more upfront, but not in the sense of "Dr Exposition dumping everything in an unskippable cutscene near the end".... or they simply take Hyne completely out and turn the story about some kind of "curse of the first sorceress". I'll explain my ideas in my next video... that will be up one day.

Plot twist : vascaroon was Hyne the whole time 😂. Great content, I don’t know why but Hyne and his role in ff8 has always peaked my interest

I always thought he had more to do than just being a hidden secret lore piece, and more to do with the reason why sorceresses went evil. I considered Hyne as being a parasitic GF…what is the drawback of junctioning a GF? You lose your memory. Why though? I always thought it was because the GF’s are draining your mind to slowly take it over, which if Hyne was forcing himself into young maidens to become sorceress’ the longer he has been junctioned into them the more he will gain control over time as their memories become nothingness altogether. I also believe Griever to be a part of this and had way more to do with the story over just being a scanned thought of Squalls mind. How would squall even know Griever was a GF unless he saw him at some point in his childhood. He is regarded as the strongest GF in his mind. But why? Because he seen him after Edea absorbed Ultimecia and became the next descendent of hyne. In other words Griever is Hyne. Hyne grieves creating the humans that created him, hence he is hidden behind the moniker of Griever.

@baguettefantasy

Жыл бұрын

Unfortunately, in hindsight, I realised that I was completely wrong with my theory about "G-Forces were gods defeated by Hyne". Going back to Radiant Butterfly's "retranslation" of Ultimecia's dialogue, when she summons Griever, she states that she will now manifest/create the strongest GF based on Squall's imagination. So the GF were more likely created by sorceresses of the past channeling Hyne's ability to create stuff like humans and/or the world depending on the legends of Hyne.

UPDATE (2 years later): Getting to the first legend of Hyne relies ENTIRELY ON RNG. I just so happened to save at the right moment in the series of numbers in my "RNG seed" that guaranteed ME that I'd get to see the old man and his grand daughter if I did everything shown in this video. I involuntarily manipulated the RNG and falsely claimed that it was the only way/moment where you could see the first legend but I WAS WRONG and I'm sorry for that, it was not my intent. However, you can't see the first legend anymore once Balamb has been occupied by then freed from Galbadia, the old man will just repeat how "glad he is that everyone is safe".

30:00 "inquiring about it for geology classwork"... What if Hyne's useless half simply turned to stone, or became fossilized? Just a thought.

To truly defeat hyne, the sorceress should not be allowed to transfer powers in her death. It's obvious, the "so she could die in peace" is hyne's excuse to keep his distributed half alive. If the sorceress did not transfer the power then the portion of hyne dies with her.

@two_spirit_sun

Жыл бұрын

Legit just explained this exact concept on another FF8 video, in an absurd way, Ultimecia is actually trying to save everyone....forced into the curse of Hyne by a previous sorceress, ultimecia is hunted and isolated by society as a result of SeeD existing specifically only to murder her. Her supreme goal is to use her magic to force a reality into existence in which only she exists...thus ending SeeD who would eventually murder her, ending the timeloop paradox, and ending a reality where she must pass on her sorceress powers. If ultimecia is successful, the sorceress powers end with her, and a reality where there is no SeeD, no witches, and no Hyne exists...

The Void actually establishes the FF Multiverse and Hyne is is in FF3. Or at least a variant. Google FF3 Hein for what he looks like.

Amazing job! But plz make it shorter I barely have time to sleep but now I'm intrigued

Reading some of the Japanese caps you have the screen I think a lot of nuanced is missed here. For one thing the second myth refers to Zebalga as a master of dark arts (黒聞王). So it seems there may be a darker side of humanity with the Hyne battle. Thats probably why the French went with a necromancer.

@baguettefantasy

11 ай бұрын

Interesting and thanks for your comment. My translator friend told me that she wasn't sure but she thought that it translated to "Zebalga of the black ears tribe" or "Zebalga the black/dark". I put it through "google translate" after I read your comment and I got "king of darkness". Since "black ears" or "the dark" sounded weird or dumb, I dismissed it as some nickname you can often see with kings in History (the tall, the wise, the beautiful, so on and on) and didn't take it into account in my video. And "king of the dark arts/darkness" or "black king" might just be a metaphore for his or his clan's brutality since they won the war. Even so, it has no bearing on the french localisation as to why they changed "sorceress" to "necromancer". As far I could confirm, FF7 had 2 localisations, first for the Playstation, then a relocalisation for the PC port. Both were based on the US english, same later for FF8. I'm not sure about 9, but it was from 10 forward that the french was based directly on the japanese (even if there were some liberties taken). I might be entirely wrong as I'm working alone and don't have the ressources of a much bigger channel like "Did you know gaming" or "Larry Bundy Jr". Take care and have fun !

No I just realize that ur video and another video about ultimera real name fit together

@dantereiper7740

Жыл бұрын

Imagine half of hyne body that was a fake actually live on and infused with one person that cause the sorceress to come to light. And imagine hyne recovering in the interworld rift. And this cause him to attacking any one that arriving there

@baguettefantasy

Жыл бұрын

@Dante Reiper That's an actually good take. My video was already long enough as it was, and I had to give up on 2 - 3 ideas because I didn't find any or enough "evidences" to back up my claims. I've been busy for quite a while, but I've been working on some kind of follow up or commentary where I adress some critics and questions, as well as explaining some of those theories that I gave up on, such as the Shumis and Deep Sea Lab.

Pupu is ALWAYS watching... Honestly the whole origin story of Hyne sounds a lot like Jenova/Sephiroth maybe a body found with magical powers

very interesting video friend, can you make a similar video about the possibilities that a sequel can bring to the story, and if you can make an interview session with some ff8 devs so we can have some answers and few evidence on all these?

@baguettefantasy

Жыл бұрын

That would be honestly a dream of mine but I'm million miles away from the reach of a channel such as "Did you know gaming" for example, so even if I often make jokes about needing confirmations from the story writer Kazuhige Nojima or the director/producer Yoshinori Kitase... well, that's not for today. And even if someone else "borrowed" my ideas (that others might have already came up with anyway), I'm not aware of any interview of the sort.

@gianniszafeiridis6139

Жыл бұрын

@@baguettefantasy I know that the ultimanias have a lot of information about these topics, but I feel that there is a distance from these( maybe also from the lack of a proper english translation) from the opinions of a wider public, and often the criticism (don't know if it is fair or not) that ff8 gets from people about its disjointed plot or script, mechanics and more, maybe if we could make a thread collaboration style with people who are on the same page about the ff8 story so that some light can be shed about these topics, some of which are still debatabe and the theories, before SE devs confirm some facts.

@baguettefantasy

Жыл бұрын

@@gianniszafeiridis6139 there have been some interviews like this one: web.archive.org/web/20170905173922/kotaku.com/is-squall-really-dead-final-fantasy-producer-addresses-1800007113

@____REX

Жыл бұрын

@@baguettefantasy "... if we ever do make a remake of Final Fantasy VIII, I might go along with that story in mind." regarding Squall being dead, lol. I will apply 'Death of the Author' here (i.e. Devs as humans change overtime and they may or may not deny their own work and because of that, they cannot be trusted). I think I will trust my own interpretation on the game's story rather than listening to authors' new opinions/answers.

@baguettefantasy

Жыл бұрын

@@____REX I do agree that this is a stupid idea. But the interview is from 2017, so maybe he reconsidered it since?

If honest is the real final boss then his parents were the cause, and their parents and so on. I totally understand though, it's funny, we hear of hype from time to time but also never anything at all. So thank you for this video.

you are hilarious man

feels like a jenova theory

Hyne always reminded me of some hidden uber bosses that were added into the Advance versions of the earlier titles. Particularly Enuo from FF5, also sporadically mentioned (and implied to be way stronger than Exdeath) wasn’t even seen until the Advance port of FF5. Kaiser Dragon from FF6 was another but at least he had a dummied out version in the original FF6. I guess another example would hilariously be Emerald/Ruby Weapon in the original FF7, as they were not included in the original Japanese Version and only added to the International versions. But nowadays they’re so infamous that nobody would know any different. Anyway if FF8 ever gets an enhanced remaster or remake, hopefully they cover Hyne, after all, Time Travel is already such a major part of the plot. Ultimecia should have sent herself back to where Hyne was and demanded to know why he locked her (and a lot of other witches) into such an awful timeline lol. My point is, like Enou, he certainly could play a more major role for optional content imo. Not saying that this would be a good idea either, as Enou was kinda a letdown in FF5A. *Sigh* Ah well. Unrelated, but I wish we got to see more of Esthar under Adel’s leadership. FF8 has a lot of hidden lore, as you’ve shown very well in this video. It’s almost funny how hidden some of this is….I feel like a fraud, I love the lore of the FF games but have never even heard of these Zebalga characters. >_> Anyway great video!

@baguettefantasy

Жыл бұрын

Last week, I was thinking about FF5 for reasons unrelated to Enuo. But after perusing through the wiki pages, I ended up on Enuo's page. Your comment just made me realise how Enuo and Hyne are, in my opinion, complete opposites. Enuo is mentionned at least once in the main story, but he's ultimately irrelevant. You could erase him no problem and make Exdeath the only villain; the story wouldn't be missing any beat. However, Hyne feels like he (it ?) should have been an integral part of the plot as Ultimecia's goals feel very underdevelopped (she's just "full of rage"). I know it's pretentious, but again, I do feel like having Hyne at least appear or being mentionned once in the main plot and revealing itself as Ultimecia switches to her final form would have worked a lot better. Especially with the paralel between Hyne's Throne Room being literally the place of birth of FF8's humanity, and Ultimecia's "master room" being Hyne's place of ultimate demise at the hand of humans' children. I do hope that they take that into account if they ever try to redo the plot, but I really have no hope with how FF7 Remake turned out.

This is amazing! Lol Selphie might not be the true final boss, but she could have been. She had The End.

So they plot twist of ff10

........ is the Swedish Chef a FF8 fan?

Is yoyr uncle Santa Claus??

Ultimecia final form is missing its legs, this makes it obvious its hyne. maybe they dropped the Hyne story to simplify the story a little because it was already hard to understand the plot, especially for the 8-16yo kids who were playing this game.

I'm sorry if this comes off as mean, there is no malicious intention with this. But why do you almost sound like Tristan from YuGiOh abridged?

@baguettefantasy

11 ай бұрын

That's my normal voice... Did you expect me to sound like Sauza in the DBZ Abridged's rendition of Revenge of Cooler 😂 ? Although I did dumb overly frenchified narration for 2 of my videos in the past: kzread.info/dash/bejne/oKdpqM6yaafcnbQ.html

Could the other half of Hyne be Lunatic Pandora? Sort of like a time bomb or diversion for the humans that defeated him. This is an excellent video thank you for putting in this work! Subscribed! What was that at the end?! Was it FF12 related!?

@baguettefantasy

3 жыл бұрын

In the game, it's stated that the Lunatic Pandora was created by Esthar around a Crystal Pillar. The Ultimania I'm referencing also confirmed that the Crystal Pillar is a giant moon rock that came down 80 years ago in a particularly devastating Lunar Cry that destroyed most of the Centra region/civilization. You can learn more here, thanks to editors of the wiki: finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Lunatic_Pandora For the special ending of my video, you're 2 numbers off, it's from a raid in FFXIV, but mostly out of context if you never did that raid ^^'

Hyne is a legend in present time during the game's story, there is no actual evidence of a being called "Hyne" being real, it's just what the people in the world of FFVIII choose to believe similar to how people in reality have a belief in various gods. I don't think Hyne was ever intended to be a major plot point of the game, it's just a reference to Hein in FFIII. The fact that you have to go out of your way diverting from where the game pushes you to go suggests that the legend of Hyne isn't really important.

Riona is the main villain for taking Squall away from his true love, Seifer.

@LyntzbartzkyPerez

11 ай бұрын

Squall x Seifer - the ultimate bromance

Are your from France or Quebec?

@baguettefantasy

2 жыл бұрын

Oui

as a kiwi I appreciate your English my friend

@baguettefantasy

Жыл бұрын

But I'm french D: You're not the first one to mention my weird accent. As I learned english, I probably ended up mixing many accents as well as english and american pronunciations/inflexions of words. In the end, it likely sounds very unsettling, that's why I make sure that the subtitles are ready to go before publishing my videos ^^

@johnback3299

Жыл бұрын

@@baguettefantasy bro i mumble like an uunga buunga your doing all good enjoyed relaxing listening to random nerd stuff from high school just recentaly got the remaster and am in love all over again

@baguettefantasy

Жыл бұрын

@@johnback3299 The only kiwi I heard talking in my life was Joy Kowley in one "Best of the worst" video from those hack frauds Red Letter Media guys.

This is interesting information but get to the point, shouldn't be 50 minutes long. You are adding too much slow pointless comment.

@baguettefantasy

11 ай бұрын

You can skip up to 20:24 or 28:27 where I recap what I said in the first half of the video. I know that I should have made a separate video to make fun of the localisations, but what's done is done.

@megakristof3855

11 ай бұрын

@@baguettefantasy Thanks for the reply, I already watched most of the video. Finding out that Ultimecia likely took the form of Great Hyne really adds a lot of context to this great game and the character of Hyne is a great mystery I didn't know was this deep, thank you. I know I posted a kinda negative comment but I think you'd really benefit from limiting your videos to 10-20 minutes to make them more watchable and force you to keep the best stuff.

@baguettefantasy

11 ай бұрын

@@megakristof3855 It's fine, it's been over 2 years, I had time to think about it. I'm currently working on the "sequel" but the script started to look a bit too long so I'm gonna split the different parts/chapters in shorter separate videos.

I will say Rinoa is Ultamecia until my dying breath...but this adds even more complexity. I wish this game got a sequel since there was so much more left to explore.

@FF8FansChannel

Жыл бұрын

I wish too :)