Hey everyone! Thanks for watching my first video! I just wanted to clarify that Cloud and Tifa are NOT the technically canon couple, and it is my mistake for saying that. I was under the impression that they were canon through fandom talk and playing through the original game. Sorry for the confusion, and thanks for the important correction!

@scarlettlav

6 ай бұрын

Correct when I’m young and don’t go onto forums Clerith was always the main couple to me just that she died and it was tragedy but when I went online I was shocked to see Cloti and Zerith shot up because of Crisis Core and Zack was so popular one period of time that Clerith was forgotten, I always felt like the odd one out.. did I play the same game as everyone else? And remake really brought back all the Clerith that I thought we need!

@quangthaitruong7960

6 ай бұрын

So glad you realized this. It hit me like a truck when you said that 😂.

@marieb4496

5 ай бұрын

I think the scene under the highwind may be considered canon by one of the developers. That said I think Cloud and Aerith have way more chemistry in both games.

@Zero-fx8pc

5 ай бұрын

@@scarlettlavThe thing is that popularity doesn’t equate canon in this franchise or any other, the creators have gone to say multiple times that this is a matter of interpretation and that they give both girls equal amount of moments so they try to be fair not favoring one over the other. Nomura even said in an interview (the info can be found easily online) that he was asked multiples times about Cloud and Tifa relationship in AC to which he responded that even after all these years he doesn’t really know. All we know is that he loved both girls Tifa in his childhood and Aerith in his adulthood wether or not he and Tifa got romantic after Aerith death is depending on affection points. Shippers are the only ones that would argue that Cloud and Tifa is canon even tho the developers have debunked that multiple times. Take what you hear from shippers on both sides with a grain of salt since both sides are known to lie, specially when you hear stuff like Cloud feelings are Zack’s and that kind of stuff.

@derekgregg9009

5 ай бұрын

@@scarlettlav they’ve never been the main couple

I completely agree. And one small thing i love about clerith is the fact that cloud is kind of naturally kinder around her. He tells the flowers to learn to talk to aerith when he told barrett he was crazy for hearing the planet. He tells the kids that he'll get rid of the toad king for 3 gil, something i could never really imagine him doing before meeting aerith. He hears the old man say he cant make the trip anymore in a sidewuest and decides that he should give the old man some motivation to not give up, basically saying "return this key yourself or I'll charge you to have me return it." (While seen as rude by the people, i believe aerith recognized he was actually being kind because she didnt say anything to him about it). And theres the fact that he sympathizes with leslie when he talks about his fiance, because he feels the same about aerith and leslie even recognized it

@webguy943

6 ай бұрын

Dont forget cloud telling barret he doesnt dance. Yet see him in drag and dancing.

@Ahmed-og2jm

6 ай бұрын

This is about his progression in general not only bc of Aerith...it's everyone...

@derekgregg9009

4 ай бұрын

Lol dude there’s not even a hint that cloud even wants to go for Aerith. He’s working on saving his girl and Aerith helps. Then Aerith dies and goes back to the planet with Zach. Her man. Cloud and tifa do it under the highwind. Then are a couple in advent children. Stop

@xmant8842

4 ай бұрын

@derekgregg9009 maybe you didn't recognize me because I changed my pfp. We just had a debate under my other comment 2 weeks ago and you yourself claimed it was left ambiguous. Why are you trying to start something again after it's already been settled? The fact you're still commenting stuff like this tells me you didn't mean what you said two weeks ago when we ended the debate, but frankly, I don't care enough to debate anymore. Neither of us will change the mind of the other

@derekgregg9009

4 ай бұрын

@@xmant8842 I just can’t help myself 😂 hope you’re having a good day Idk why I’m like this. Happy Monday friend

One thing to note is that Tifa says "Our home...And everything else. They took everything from us again." Cloud doesn't really seem to respond to that. Because for Cloud, Sector 7 wasn't his home. He spent one night there before he fell into Sector 6. It's meant to represent the disconnect between the two. Tifa has always felt her attachment to Nibelheim and their childhood was something shared with Cloud but he never felt that way about their home. He hated his childhood. Her friends constantly bullied him and the other townspeople ostracized him and his mother. Even now that they're adults, nothing has changed. Tifa believes the loss of Sector 7 is a shared loss but it's not. It's hers. She had friends there, a life, a home. Cloud didn't have any of those things. Nothing has changed. There's always this emotional gap between then even where there isn't one physically.

@mythrlmoogle

3 ай бұрын

You're so right! This is an excellent point. I know Tifa often means well with Cloud, but she really doesn't know how to connect with him. I feel bad for her in that regard. She's trying, but she can't really understand where Cloud is coming from.

@ALostExplorer

3 ай бұрын

Yeah I didn't see it that way in my playthrough of Remake - way to catch that! Though to be fair, Cloud did lose his mother from the Incident, so there is a shared thread there of losing something important after the village was burned down. Not as deep a connection as Tifa would suggest though, to your point.

@wmen48

3 ай бұрын

@@ALostExplorer If you would play og ff7 in the lifestream with Tifa, Cloud said they grown up NEAR eachother but they didn't know eachother. Which staggers Tifa how apart they are. Even so she always pushed for Cloud. Scene under Highwind came from that. Cloud as a leader said - go find something you're fighting for. All went away but Tifa stayed with Cloud and said she has nothing except him. And kinda pushed him to go below with her for the night. It would be outta character for Cloud(like the kiss in gold saucer date) except at that time Cloud had a fixed mind and wasn't grieving Aerith.

@ALostExplorer

3 ай бұрын

@@wmen48 Hmmm I dunno. I heard there were two scenes under the Highwind and the one you didn't mention was far less intimate. I don't deny that Tifa really likes Cloud, it's just that Cloud seems more willing to keep some distance from her for a variety of reasons that I'm still trying to put into words. He still cares for her safety and doesn't wish ill on her, but that's a different kettle of fish from loving her back the way she wants him to. IMHO, both Advent Children and Case of Tifa also 'counteract' even the high-affection scene in that both still had communication problems with one another once the main OG story ended. Like, imagine that they really had sex that day only to have it not matter when they still could not be together smoothly once they're cohabiting with each other. That meant things were going wrong for them long before Geostigma reared its ugly head and started even more problems.

@wmen48

3 ай бұрын

@@ALostExplorer to be honest post og I consider it retconed fanservice. Why Aerith,Cloud and Zack are different characters. Aerith is different in every medium she is in. Cloud og to ac is a 180 on his character arc. he was a competent protagonist at the end of og and wasn't grieving Aerith. And Zack... he is completely different in japanese og than cc. And that could be seen as lore breaking since Cloud starts as impersonating his persona but if we would put cc Zack with Cloud it's just dumb. Discussing this with a japanese person, I was told that each medium has no "cannon" and characters can differ medium to medium. Ok so this all then has no continuity. What happened under hoghwind stays under highwind style.

17:39 not even tbh. In the books and advent children, cloud is really distant from tifa and, well, everyone due to the grief he felt from aerith's death. He was drinking and tifa wanted to join him, but he told her he wanted to be alone. I believe Tifa even asks cloud if he loves her, and he couldnt bring himself to say it. He moves into aerith's church for a while without tifa knowing. Tifa basically told him to move on, but aerith(from the lifestream) comforted cloud, telling him that she never blamed him and that he should forgive himself

@monca1222

6 ай бұрын

To this day, I've never seen an explanation for why Aerith shows up twice when Sephiroth asks him what does he cherish... The impact she had on him is irreplaceable...

@user-df8lp9zq8s

6 ай бұрын

Cloud was in love with Aerith . Its just a simple true fact

@chisakiryu

6 ай бұрын

I also remember that

@audriari

6 ай бұрын

I always thought it was mean to tell Cloud "what is it? A MEMORY or us?" I was like... a memory? That was so mean. And like i get it, the kids needed help and her comment seemed to help Cloud, but it still seemed so mean and disrespectful

@xmant8842

6 ай бұрын

@@audriari I honestly agree. I will never find it "right" to tell someone to just move on. Especially how tifa did it. Tifa was forceful, but aerith was comforting

Spot on analysis! The way Cloud and Aerith's relationship is continously moving forward and progressing makes them so entertaining to watch. Their dynamic and writing is truly masterful and I really applaud the devs for that. For the non-spoken interactions, I especially like the moment where Aerith tells to Cloud she is paying him by spending time with him (they're basically on their date right then). He questions with a "huh?", and she responds with "hmm?" and then he realises with an "ohh.." it's so adorable

@liselotte9453

9 ай бұрын

I love that about Cloud! It's so precious

@derekgregg9009

4 ай бұрын

Right like… killing her so cloud could end up with his girl tifa. Where they have sex under the highwind.

Near felt like I was going crazy when I see so many people say Tifa is the proper choice when I just dont see near any chemistry with the 2, yeah they might end up together but like it just feels like it only happened because Aerith happened to be killed. But yeah Aerith is just so perfect for him its not even funny, Its rare I get invested with stories of shipping but damn they struck a home run in remake fleshing it out a ton.

@ErenDenizMert

4 ай бұрын

Facts

@megaaa4k

4 ай бұрын

.

@yasuminagunne9623

3 ай бұрын

100%!!! I'm not big on the shipping thing. I honestly didn't know shipping was called shipping until a few years ago but Cloud and Aerith... just gets me right in the heartstrings. And I've been a fan since '97 and they still just make me all warm and fuzzy. I'm beyond invested in these two despite not actually being a huge fan of romantic elements. I'll be sailing this ship until I'm old and Grey 😂

@gatorssbm

3 ай бұрын

@@yasuminagunne9623 I also never really been into any ship until I met a woman who is oddly similar to her (albeit has a temper) and I just kinda stumbled on and wasnt sure how to act around them but we eventually became friends and me being perceptive on how she truly feels despite her attempting to appear cheery I just knew despite not being that social or knew how to express emotion myself. I always mistook this ship as friendship but now having realized we both have/had feelings for each other I appreciate the Clerith dynamic a lot more, its not as obvious but its slowly changing Cloud for the better because with me it took me over half a year til I could truly open up. Just a very wholesome thing they have with 100% genuine care for each other.

@nguyenanh7518

2 ай бұрын

Tội nghiệp Tifa, cô yêu Cloud rất nhiều nhưng trái tim lẫn tâm trí Cloud đều hướng về Aerith. Điều mơ lớn nhất của Cloud là muốn gặp lại Aerith ở Promise Land😢

Cloud (Sky) Aerith (Earth) One cannot prosper without the other, perfect for each other. But just like their love story, theres a barrier. Perfect as they are, they can never be together, thats my take of it atleast. Who knows, maybe in the promised land where the skies and earth are one, they can finally be one as well. Whats your take? comment it, I love reading other peoples own takes.

Outside of the main FFVII game itself, Cloud is constantly searching for the Promised Land because he's always thinking about Aerith and he wanted to reunite with her. Isn't this tragically beautiful? And now we have songs that tells us about Cloud's longing for Aerith(Hollow) and Aerith's answer to Cloud that she believes he will be able to find her(No Promises to Keep). Their relationship is just genuine.

@derekgregg9009

4 ай бұрын

You ever lost a friend? I want all of my friends back. Doesn’t mean I love them. Cloud loved tifa all his life and ends up with her. They have sec under the highwind. And they’re together even til advent children and beyond. Cloud and tifa will die next to each other

@christine8459

4 ай бұрын

@@derekgregg9009 that's nice.

@derekgregg9009

4 ай бұрын

@@christine8459 yeah. :) You’re welcome. I’m constantly having to defend the proper ship. Someone’s gotta do it.

@christine8459

4 ай бұрын

@@derekgregg9009 oh, thanks. I'll stick to the canon couple that complements one another :'>.

@yasuminagunne9623

3 ай бұрын

​@@derekgregg9009Mate... seriously, do you have anything else in life? I've seen you on various Clerith videos being a troll 😂 I promise you these fictional characters don't need you "defending" them. Just go enjoy your CT content and whatever else you enjoy. And if you try saying you're trying to correct misconceptions, speculations or bad interpretations, I got news for you... it was deliberately left for interpretation. The devs have said so, and unless you can show me solid proof to the contrary, you're just spouting headcanon.

Wow, talk about starting strong-this was great! While I would like to correct that Cloud and Tifa aren't actually officially canon (the developers have stated that, even without the threat of Sephiroth, Shinra, Meteor, Geostigma etc. the two of them would not work out as romantic partners and that they never got together at any point in OG or Remake) that does not take away from the points made in this video whatsoever. Keep up the good work 👍

@ALostExplorer

3 ай бұрын

I've heard/read that line from the developers before and it always made me scratch my head as to why they were very VERY adamant that Cloud and Tifa were never going to happen and even shot down a ton of other hypothetical scenarios (no Sephiroth/Meteor/Geostigma) that would maybe help them get together. Then again, at some point it felt like the new line was that players could read the triangle and make of it what they will. Honestly, as someone who watched Advent Children I settled on the idea that Cloud was more than happy to keep Aerith's memory alive and that he didn't need to be with Tifa for the purposes of closure. I really had the sense that Cloud really listened to Aerith's words of encouragement from the Lifestream and they were what helped him move forward.

I am new to FF and i played Remake and Rebirth recently for the first time without no previous knowledge at all. All I knew was pictures of that hot Sephiroth guy haha. It was really noticeable how much Cloud hates touching and being touched - BUT not with Aerith. Particularly in Rebirth, there are a million small touched initiated by Cloud that he didn't do with anyone else: a hand on her shoulder when they are betrayed by Caith Sith, embracing her to protect her from the sandstorm, reaching out for her hand when leaving the sky wheel, etc. I also laughed that he DOES NOT contradict Aerith in the beginning of Rebirth when Aerith tells everyone they were on a date.

I 100% agree with you, Cloud and Aerith are my favorite romance in modern media.

Aerith is basically Cloud’s free therapy session

@ugh5281

6 ай бұрын

i think one underrated aspect of their dynamic is that cloud feels so comforted in her presence. even after her death, he seeks comfort in her presence and in things that remind him of her, like her church for example. i think that's really beautiful.

@ChoompaLoompa1985-uw8lw

22 күн бұрын

Cloud is pretty good therapy for her as well, with his goofy NPC behaviour, which is breached every time she pretends to fall or slip and he's there to catch her. Aerith is a romance junky and a romantic herself.

Cloud and Aerith have a very beautiful love story going for them. SE ruining that would be one of the worst decisions ever made. Also, Cloud and Tifa are not considered canon. The original game was made so that you can pick who you think the main love interest is. While though Aerith dies, people still think of her as the main love interest because of the story her and Cloud hold as you talk about in this video. She’s also the heroine of the story. People also have the option to pursue Tifa in the game, but you don’t have to. So really, just depends on you and how you wanna see it. I agree though, Cloud and Aerith are a beautiful pairing.

@user-df8lp9zq8s

6 ай бұрын

They cant ruin Cloud and Aerith, when its all about them. This people who create this game love this characters...

@monca1222

6 ай бұрын

I feel if the path is as straightforward as CloTi, there wouldn't really be a point to Aerith's death/character and their fight for the planet. Their scene under the highwind shows more romantic love from Tifa's side than Cloud's. She even tells Cloud to let her have this moment. If the answer is Tifa, then why have her feel upset over Aerith in AC or have the last scene be between Aerith and Cloud? Adding Remake to the mix, then why does it appear that Cloud is still falling for Aerith again? And this with her telling him not to do so and trying to keep him more distant? It'd be strange because you'd expect him to just not react to Aerith romantically if it wasn't her...

@FenrirInFlowers

6 ай бұрын

Yeah. Cloud's feelings for Tifa are entirely optional, but his feelings for Aerith are hinted and expressed in very non-optional scenes. It's in the moments such as him starting to say, "But I'm here for you," in Cosmo Canyon before catching himself. It's in his heartbreak over Aerith's death when his heart cracks. He talks about remembering her smile, and she motivates him to destroy Sephiroth. Plus, no matter which Highwind scene you get, Cloud still goes reaching for Aerith's hand in the Lifestream and chooses to try to find her in the Promised Land.

@ugh5281

6 ай бұрын

@@FenrirInFlowers even in the remake there are a lot of small details that may be easy to miss but clearly hint at cloud having feelings for aerith/ thinking about aerith, etc... even in the scenes where you choose tifa, she's always mentioning aerith and hinting at something weird going on between aerith and cloud (which cloud does not deny), the whole thing with leslie and his fiancee when he said "was it a message? what was she trying to tell me?" was also a hint at cloud thinking about aerith and there's the whole theme with the flowers and reunion etc... those small details are easy to miss but they're there. i know the game has options but there's still a story they're trying to tell beyond those choices they make you do as the player, it's just a shame that some people disregard it. the devs have bene saying for a while that cloud is much more of his own character in the remake and that they'd be leaving things less up for interpretation this time around. i think the issue comes with the fact that despite them leaving things less up for interpretation there's still the choices you can make and people's biases in the way so ppl can easily be like "well i like tifa better and i made the choices to get tifa therefore MY cloud likes tifa" you get what i'm saying? even if within the choices aerith's scenes end up being with a lot more romantic than all the other ones, ppl can make that argument and i get that to a certain extent, i just don't really share the same perspective bc to me it's very clear that even though they let you make choices they want to tell a bigger story and all the choices have to make sense in the bigger scheme of things.

@FenrirInFlowers

6 ай бұрын

@ugh5281 - Absolutely! Even in the OG, if you got Tifa at the Gold Saucer, she was thinking about Aerith during the gondola scene. And that Leslie parallel is right in your face (as was the Vincent parallel in AC/C). Remake is really obvious about showing how Cloud feels. Like you pointed out, he will immediately tell Aerith that Tifa isn't his girlfriend, but he never denies to Tifa that there's something more going on with him and Aerith. Cloud has an elaborate cutscene of him reacting with awe to Aerith in the red dress, complete with fireworks to show his romantic feelings for her. It even leaves him stuttering. Meanwhile, Cloud has no moment of romantic admiration for Tifa in any of her dresses. One of my favorite small moments is when Cloud, Aerith, and Tifa fall through the roof at the train graveyard. Cloud immediately checks that Aerith is okay and completely forgets about Tifa. He's not trying to be mean. He's just a man falling in love, and his thoughts are full of Aerith. The way SE frames the events speaks volumes too. SE used the red dress scene in their promos for Remake, just like they are using Aerith's Gold Saucer date in the promo for Rebirth. Also, the Aerith resolution scene was included in the clips during the end credits for Remake. They do it because these are the scenes that they want players to experience. These are the scenes that are important to the story they are telling.

You perfectly explained why I ultimately stopped shipping Cloud and Tifa. I still believe there is something there for sure! But I never really liked the underlining feeling of Tifa being the second choice after Aerith's died. Because even if we learned that Cloud had a crush on her when they were children, Cloud still fell for Aerith hard and strong and I don't think he will ever really get over her loss (the song Hollow kinda confirmed this to me when Remake came out, he will go on yes, but hollow...). Then came Advent Children and On the Way to a Smile in which Cloud and Tifa's dynamic was still not doing it for me on a romantic level. Tifa felt more like a mother figure to Cloud in my view, I felt like she was dealing with a boy going throw his teenage phase, wanting to drink alone, unable to even answer when she asked if he loves her and buying motocycle behind her back to finally leave her to go seek comfort in Aerith's Church... I love Tifa and I want better for her. And I say that as probably one of the biggest Cloud fan there is! I don't blame him, I simply don't believe they are a match, it just doesn't work for me. Whereas with Aerith, everything seems easy. It's organic, it's fun. Cloud opens up to her without even realizing he does. He talked to her about Sephiroth without her having to ask. There is a scene where she says to him that he must know about Wall Market and he answers "didn't I told you?" like it's the most natural thing in the World for him to talk about himself to her when he is so reluctant to do so with anyone else, including Tifa. They are a perfect match for each other. Claudia Strife would agree.

@Traigame2cervezas

6 ай бұрын

Beautifully said

@PollenAinne

6 ай бұрын

This is so true. I feel that the dynamic of Cloud and Tifa isn't reciprocal in a way that it is always Cloud comforting Tifa whilst closing himself from her. Even when Cloud was at his ultimate low, when he thought he wasnt a real person, he was the one who apologized to Tifa and tried to give her hope that she would meet the real Cloud someday. Tifa who should have been his much needed pillar at the time was on the floor sobbing her heart out. It is the same in the resolution scene in remake. Tifa sobs and Cloud comforts her. I do not doubt that Cloud of course gets a huge euphoria in being able to be the strong man to comfort Tifa, and in that aspect, their relationship works. However, when Cloud needs someone, he simply cannot seek solace to Tifa because their relationship simply goes one way. Another good example is on the Highwind Scene which is the favorite of clotis. Even here, it is Cloud who tries to reassure Tifa and as they spend the night together she asks for a bit more time which he concedes to. Once again, Cloud is giving Tifa comfort. The books detail how this dynamic doesn't stand the test of time as it is tested when Cloud is once again going through his all time low, this time with Geostigma. Actually, it even started way before that when he delivered flowers to Aerith's grave wherein Tifa wanting to share his sorrows with him simply wanted to drink alongside him. But Cloud closes himself off as he never wants to show weakness to Tifa and Tifa instead of seeing through that tells him to drink alone in his room. But it seems that with Aerith, Cloud shows his vulnerable side without even meaning to. Cloud and Aerith have an interesting dynamic where Cloud is her protector in a physical sense while Aerith is the emotional support who holds him together. Aerith is not ashamed to rely on Cloud's strength because she is secure in herself being a strong magic user. She tells everyone that he is her bodyguard and that with him she has no worries for sure. It builds Clouds ego but also at the same time, Aerith teases him constantly when he tries to bluff and doesn't get put off when he shows a facade of disinterest. Aerith is basically the girl Cloud's mother Claudia said he needed. I do strongly believe that had Aerith not died, Cloud's psyche would not have fallen apart like it did in the OG. I hope we get to see that in the remake, altho for some reason, I do believe that if Aerith doesn't die, she will be separated from the team just so Cloud can break apart. The thing here is that, I strongly believe that had the roles were exchanged and it was Tifa who died and Aerith lived, although Cloud would also grieve a lot, the presence of Aerith will get him through it a lot better. He would have been able to seek solance into Aerith and move on from his grief much easier. I would say that Cloud is kind of complex and his personality is kind of a burden in a relationship. Even Nojima said himself that a relationship with Aerith would have worked better than with Tifa, but that the burden would be on Aerith. So in essence, I would say Aerith is able to carry the burden of loving Cloud much easier than Tifa can.

@dalegleneagles5072

6 ай бұрын

@@PollenAinne good to see you here. How about that Rebirth theme song?

@dalegleneagles5072

6 ай бұрын

Yes, sadly Tifa is sort of portrayed as the embodiment of the song "Love the One You're With". There were two highwind scenes...low affection one is telling. And it's just as much "canon".

@ugh5281

6 ай бұрын

@@dalegleneagles5072 if i'm being honest the notion that people spread over the years that tifa and cloud are canon because they had sex under the highwind is the silliest headcanon i've ever heard yet people still believe it somehow. i know both clerith and cloti fans go to extremes to validate their ship but seriously some of the stuff i see people believe is genuinely hilarious to me... it literally screams "i want to have sex with my waifu tifa therefore i'm gonna self-insert as cloud and interpret this nice bonding moment between them as sex"

They're just so cute together ❤ I love how soft she makes him. I feel like their interactions added so much depth to Cloud as a character, and I love how Aerith is a fully fledged character outside of her interactions with Cloud. A lot of romances treat the love interest like an accessory to the MC, so it's refreshing to see a change in that. And it's nice to see someone putting so much effort into sharing their appreciation for how FF7's writing. Super well spoken, great detail. Can't wait for more!

Thanks for this video. It's also mentioned in the FF7 Remake Ultimania that Cloud's heart starts pounding when Aerith sits closer to him in the evergreen park but he doesn't feel anything romantic towards Tifa when she hugs him. 🤔

@ahernandez5375

2 ай бұрын

He even ends up hurting tifa when trying to comfort her :( cause he was copying Barrett

when i first got into ff7 i thought tifa and cloud were like the ultimate ship bc i had just seen more content of them online so i was expecting to ship them too but when i got to the game i was kind of surprised bc i ended up loving aerith and cloud's chemistry and dynamic wayyyy more. i also then found out that both ships are technically canon and it depends on your game choices and how you interpret the story. some people choose to believe that tifa and cloud got together after the game and since aerith died they see tifa as the romantic option for cloud by default, even though the devs have never confirmed one couple over the other and always let the "love triangle" be ambiguous and up for interpretation. honestly i find it kind of shocking that tifa/cloud are so much more popular because i personally just don't see romantic chemistry between them, at least not in the same way i do with aerith/cloud. don't get me wrong, it's not to say that tifa/cloud don't have good moments in the game because they definitely do, they have some chemistry between them in certain scenes for sure and obviously tifa and cloud care for each other but when it comes to pure romantic chemistry their moments never come close to the aerith/cloud moments for me, like you said even their small interactions are so fun. i think the fact that cloud and tifa have known each other since childhood and share history makes ppl want to root for them (the childhood friends to lovers trope is popular, even though cloud and tifa were not particularly close as kids), aerith's death (leaving tifa as the only romantic option by default) and then crisis core didn't help because ppl started shipping her with zack and claiming the only possible canon ships are zack/aerith and cloud/tifa. aerith's characterization in CC is awful and zack and aerith's "love story" is very lackluster and even the devs basically admitted that they just recreated cloud and aerith's interactions in the OG ff7 and applied it to zack and aerith in CC, which makes the whole thing even cheaper in my eyes. i wouldn't mind shipping zack and aerith if it was well written and developed but nothing about the way their love story is portrayed makes me ship them the way i ship aerith/cloud. their connection was portrayed as a teenage puppy love and their relationship and bond doesn't even come to aerith and cloud's, there's no depth there. they just met, hung out a bit, developed a crush on each other and then zack died, that's about it. even romance aside, aerith has a much stronger connection to cloud than she ever did to zack so it bothers me immensely seeing ppl forcing her "deep" connection with zack and acting like they were married or something. zack was her first love and they had a thing going on i'm not denying that, but there's no way anyone can convince me that zack and aerith make a better romantic pairing than cloud and aerith. upon meeting aerith cloud changes so much and it's all due to aerith's personality and the positive influence she has on him. she manages to break down his walls and cloud becomes much more relaxed and talkative around her... idk personally their interactions felt way more romantic and organic to me. some of cloud/tifa scenes have some tension and they have some good bonding moments but other than that their dynamic is not very interesting to me. i get the appeal in the ship though don't get me wrong, it's just not my favorite dynamic, there's something missing there for me. with aerith/cloud it felt like there is an organic romance brewing throughout the story and their interactions feel exciting and fun to watch. this is of course my perspective but i'm obviously not the only one who feels that way. you can ship whoever you want but i just wish people would stop denying that cloud and aerith share a romantic connection. sometimes you have to put your personal ships aside for a moment and look at the story and what it's trying to convey. it's fine to have preferences but it's also important to understand the overall narrative.

@dalegleneagles5072

6 ай бұрын

Who knows, maybe Tifa and Zack end up together this time. If you think about it, he embodies everything she's always wanted, and she would reciprocate his stated desires (all based on the "hero" and rescue motif). His personality would play better off of hers too.

@ugh5281

6 ай бұрын

@@dalegleneagles5072 i actually agree unironically. i believe zack and tifa would make a way better romantic pairing than cloud and tifa. their personalities would complement each other well and like you said he embodies what tifa wanted. although tbh i don't think square enix will do that, i feel like the love quadruple with cloud, aerith zack and tifa is more than enough drama already haha. the toxic shippers are already mad that square enix is "pushing" clerith as a romantic pairing even though they've always been a thing since the OG game, imagine how mad they'd be if they created a whole new love story for zack and tifa... it'd be a mess.

@dalegleneagles5072

6 ай бұрын

@@ugh5281 Oh yeah, but a glorious and logical mess! Others have suggested Tifa and Barret, which also makes a lot of sense when you consider THEY are essentially the two already raising a child together. I completely agree with you about CC. They had to effectively change Aerith's personality (and retcon how she got her ribbon) just to make her a foil for Zack's plumped up personality. She's very insecure and a wallflower in CC. Contrast that against her more consistent personality in Remake, the OG, and both of those games' childhood flashbacks (which already feature the ribbon!)

@funtests-6644

5 ай бұрын

Took the words right outta my mouth

@xwf80

5 ай бұрын

To Aerith, Zack is first love, in all her misery, he was the only light, it's natural for her to fall in love with him. However, considering 200 letters in 5 years or so before Zack die, i doubt how deep her love for Zack is. To Cloud, he have brain damage, due to Genova. He remember his puppy love for Tifa, he thought he was a soldier. Tifa is the option in fate, as in with most people, this is the best choice in life, so we got together, not because of love. Same to Tifa as well, in the few stories after, looking at Tifa's situation and choices she have, Cloud is the best choice she can have, and that's that. She tried to get Cloud to come home by reminding him of his responsibility to the children in Advent Child, instead of asking Cloud to come home for her. She had, and it didn't work, so she knows, Cloud's aren't in love with her, and she doesn't seems to be sad about that. As for Zack, Aerith is the dream girl he have had in mind, just like every other boy in the world from young.

youve made me ship a couple i know nothing about from a game i know almost nothing about, great job!!

@mythrlmoogle

9 ай бұрын

then my work here is done!

@dustinjowen4427

6 ай бұрын

@@mythrlmoogle i also play this game because of Aerith and their romance. Never play the OG or anything ralated to FF lol

I’m someone who is VERY picky with romance, I actually cannot stand lots of romances and it’s hard for me to get attached. they need to be VERY good for me to be invested. So far, I see absolutely NO flaw with Clerith and that spoke VOLUMES to me. I love every single aspect of them.

@derekgregg9009

5 ай бұрын

They weren’t romantic. Cloud and Aerith are supposed to be kindred souls because they are both so alone in the world. Not romantic. Aerith is reminded of Zach by cloud. That’s all. Cloud went to soldier to impress tifa. He came back and saved tifa. When he was messed up after Zach died tifa saved him and watched over him. Because she loves him. When she’s putting his brain back together in mideel she finds out he loves her. They save the world. Aerith and Zach are dead together where they belong. Cloud and tifa finally make love under the high wind. I’m sorry that you shipped Aerith and cloud the first playthrough and haven’t been able to shake it. But despite how well you’ve imagined them being a perfect couple, they were never. They have never been. Clouds pain when she dies isn’t because of romantic love. Barrett’s death would’ve messed him up too. He’s starting to love his friends.

@derekgregg9009

5 ай бұрын

Also I’ll name you a flaw. Cloud flirting with tifa and Jessie if you choose to make him do so. And then having sex with tifa. Calling tifa your girlfriend if you choose to. does that not flaw up the ideal love thing you’ve got going on lol

@nguyenlehoa2073

4 ай бұрын

@@derekgregg9009 You know i can have countless way to rebunk your words, but i dont because frankly i respect any other ship include Zerith as long as they appreciate the core value of products. Just dont push your own view to other ship, especially in a Clerith video, that is just rude, this is one of the reasons many people dont like Cloti fan. You should know Clerith is absolute overwhelming in Japan and many Asia countries for many reason,s so just to be nice and dont push over too much.

@derekgregg9009

4 ай бұрын

@@nguyenlehoa2073 hey man I’m sorry. Shipping Aerith and cloud is just fantasy. They couldn’t have set it up any more obviously. Cloud and tifa end up together. They save the world. Aerith and Zach are dead. Together at last

@nguyenlehoa2073

4 ай бұрын

@@derekgregg9009 ANd again with that kind of comment I and any Clerith fan can have countless way to rebunk you so lets just keep if that way. Just dont be too rude, especially with that kind of answer and how you continue pushing your view to other. So let's just stop this conversation in here.

When I played the remake, I was wondering what Tifa liked about Cloud because in the beginning of the game, it's definitely not his personality lol. Initially, I thought what attracted her to Cloud was that, he was someone who was from the same town as her but Tifa hadn't seen since they were much younger. So naturally, seeing someone from they were 13 vs 21 is a huge difference. Basically, the kid she hadn't seen in years came back into her life and he's suddenly really hot. I'm glad you pointed out how Cloud interacts with both Aerith and Tifa, but I honestly didn't think Cloud and Tifa had that much romantic chemistry. The remake didn't show enough interactions with the two, where me (as the player) might be able to determine why someone is attracted to someone else outside of appearance if that makes sense. Cloud and Tifa are both fighters but they don't really bond over it. They don't seem to have much in common, nothing to have banter over. It's just all business. I think they just like each other because they're both attractive which is fine but it's not enough. Not to say that Aerith didn't choose to tag alongside Cloud for similar reasons (ie. he's hot), but it just worked out better because her personality contrasts with Cloud but in a way that positively changes Cloud for the better. However, I've since finished the OG so I know why the interactions were made that way.

@audriari

6 ай бұрын

I believe Tifa is in love/attracted to Cloud cause hes the only thing left from her childhood; her family is gone, her hometown is gone, her friends turned shitty and are gone now, everything that she grew up with is gone but when she sees Clous again its like she sees a part of her past and clings to it... thats my personal take tho, I'm not sure if that's why she likes him so much... but thats why I don't like that ship, it just seems like shes in love with a version of Cloud she idealized

@houstonscott4362

6 ай бұрын

@@audriarithat’s not why she fell for Cloud. Clearly you’re more invested in Clerith and based on your comments, you don’t like anything Tifa/Cloud does. If you read up on it, she fell in love with him and realized AFTER she met up with him on the tower, before she lost everything. Nice try though. Stick to only talking about Clerith.

@xfairfaeriex

6 ай бұрын

@@houstonscott4362 Clearly you're more invested in Cloti and, based on your comments, don't like anything Aerith/Cloud. If you read up on it, Tifa started to show _interest_ in Cloud AFTER her friends left and after he promised to be her hero. FFVII Ultimania Omega page 25: “Although Cloud has been holding favor for Tifa since earlier, Tifa’s interest in him didn’t begin until the time of exchanging their promise. That may have been due to the loneliness caused by her surrounding friends leaving one after another, but more than that, it seems largely due to the promise he made to become her hero.” Traces of Two pasts can hardly be used as evidence since it's told in Tifa's POV and Tifa herself had issues remembering their childhood as shown in OG during the Lifestream sequence: "Sorry, Cloud. If I had only remembered more clearly what happened, I could have done something sooner......" Nice try though.

@houstonscott4362

6 ай бұрын

@@xfairfaeriex nahhhhh. I don’t dislike Cloud and Aerith. I don’t downplay her significance like you do so based on my comments, you definitely didn’t get that. Mind you, you’re etched all up and through this particular video downplaying Tifa and her position with Cloud and as a character period. Nice try though. Also, interesting how you downplay Traces when it’s in fact stated that’s when she fell for Cloud. Don’t pick and choose champ.

@xfairfaeriex

6 ай бұрын

@nscott4362 I copied your comment almost word for word in my response, aside from swapping “Clerith/Tifa to “Cloti/Aerith”, giving quotes, and explaining the quotes so if you are reading me as being all riled up about it then you have to look at my inspiration (you) for why it comes off that way. @audriari was expressing an opinion respectfully and even said “thats my personal take tho, I'm not sure if that's why she likes him so much” yet you just had to escalate it and be rude about it: “Clearly you’re more invested in Clerith and based on your comments, you don’t like anything Tifa/Cloud does…. Nice try though. Stick to only talking about Clerith”. If you actually wanted to prove a point, you’d do it in a respectful manner with quotations and logic whereas your comments jump to conclusions on top of being rude. They never said they “don’t like anything Tifa/Cloud does” in their comment. They didn’t bring up ANY of Tifa’s actions or interactions with Cloud so where are you getting that conclusion from? They just shared what they thought Tifa’s perspective was which is different from the things Tifa "does". You jumped to conclusions on my comment too. I’m not downplaying Tifa’s significance (you said: "I don’t downplay her significance like you do"). Tifa definitely has a huge significance for Cloud - just not in a net positive way. All I did was give you a quote about Tifa _herself_ admitting she had memory issues. Tifa shows in Remake that Traces of Two Pasts likely isn’t entirely what it seems when she says to Cloud, “Deep down, you’re a pretty nice guy. Didn’t see it when we were kids, but…” In fact, thanks for reminding me to reread Traces of Two Pasts. Let’s read EXACTLY why Tifa likes Cloud as she heads to meet him at the water tower: “Cloud has such a beautiful face. She recalled her mother’s words, and how her mother went on to say, “Well, I think he’s even more beautiful than your great hero, Sephiroth.” Her mother compared Cloud to a Soldier from Shinra Company - who the youth in those days touted as the great hero, Sephiroth - as a way of complimenting Cloud. Tifa remembered thinking in her head at that time, “Oh, is he?” Yes, the reason why her heart was racing now was because Cloud was unreachable, a thing of beauty. Like the stars.” Tifa's use of distancing language ("unreachable", "like the stars") indicates that she doesn't have a relationship with Cloud and doesn't know him as a person. She admits she likes Cloud because he’s handsome ("a thing of beauty") and because he is a mystery/challenge since he doesn't fall all over her like she’s used to with everyone else. Tifa continues in this manner in Remake when she makes a drink for Cloud and compares him to others fawning over her while fishing for a compliment, "Well? Most people would say something sweet right about now," and, when he states "I'm sure they would," Tifa gets excited about the challenge and makes him a new fancy drink, sounding pleased with herself as she sets it before him. Traces of Two Pasts also shows Tifa being jealous of a city because her friends started to always talk about it and were not vying for her attention as much anymore so she went to lengths in devising ways of getting that attention: “The boys kept talking about Midgar so much that eventually I looked to Midgar as my rival. I wanted to wear the latest fashion that the girls there wore, so I asked someone who was good at needlework to help me make them. And it had to be fabrics that we couldn’t get from our general store. I even learned how to bake sweets. Up until then, I don’t think I had ever tried to get any boy’s attention.” Tifa sure is putting in a lot of effort for her guy friends to notice her with no mention of Cloud... I like @audriari ‘s opinion better. It makes Tifa less shallow sounding than Nojima makes her sound. Dismissing Traces of Two Pasts actually does Tifa a favor. “Don’t pick and choose champ.”

Excellent video essay. Something interesting about the dream sequence is it is actually Cloud's resolution scene and not Aerith's like many believe. If you read the chapter description it says Cloud, Tifa and Barret resolve to save Aerith. So you can only see it by getting higher affinity with Aerith. I thought that was neat. Another thing to note is the original promo material and the original trailer don't mention Tifa as a love interest at all. You'll actually be hard pressed to find any official material depicting them as a couple. Dirge of Cerberus gives a great write up of all the characters listing Tifa as Cloud's childhood friend; nothing more. Even the games that have had any FF7 references in them or have included characters from the game are always Aerith and Cloud with Cloud looking for someone. In the case of Final Fantasy Tactics he's looking for the promised land. In Kingdom Hearts 2 he's literally running away from Tifa. In Advent Children they don't really have a relationship. He doesn't call her back and he doesn't even really look at her when they're talking. Even the photo at the end with Tifa, Marlene, Denzel and Cloud in it, shows Cloud standing off to the side and the photo itself is off to the side almost hidden. I feel bad for Tifa because she really deserves better. The ending though where Cloud is on the bike and Aerith is in the field waiting is so good they shouldn't have changed it. There's actually a really good essay I read that parallels Cloud and Aerith's relationship with Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet along with a lot of the biblical references in the game. Here's a link should anyone be interested in reading it. It's a really good read. thefandomoverthinker.wordpress.com/2020/04/07/why-ff7-was-always-a-romance-between-aerith-and-cloud-by-understanding-romeo-and-juliet/ If anyone decides to read it you'll discover the game is literally Romeo and Juliet.

@slayer1156

24 күн бұрын

The AC ending was actually put in again in some editions. I think they took it off because Crisis Core, it was a hit, so they gave Zack space to breathe. Just like Maiden, it was pushed to the side, but neither are officially debunked. Also, while he doesn't have a Aerith photo in that scene, he has a wall full of yellow flowers' photos, Aerith's motif.

Great vid…I remember watching a play of VII Remake before I got a PS5 and was able to play it and I was just enthralled by Could and Aerith’s interactions. I felt that they have this electric chemistry that’s not seen very often in media idk. It’s pretty palpable! Excited to see what the devs do for Rebirth.

If Cloud and Tifa will become canon someday , i will accept it, but i will never ship them . Because when im playing the game i see, how Cloud and Aerith perfect for each other . They are not for nothing star crossed lovers .

@xfairfaeriex

6 ай бұрын

As a Cloud fan, I'd be fine with Cloti if Tifa actually showed she understood Cloud's deeper struggles and validated his feelings (which she doesn't do in _any_ of the Compilation, not even truly in the Lifestream sequence) and also if she realized and acknowledged how deeply her deception affected Cloud. Tifa couldn't have known the extent of what would happen and didn't intend for any of it but that doesn't change the fact that it had a massive impact on Cloud. I think these issues are why Cloud is always distancing himself from Tifa in Case of Tifa and Advent Children and why he continues to pine for Aerith. Ultimately, Cloud feels alone with Tifa and he heavily implies those feelings in Advent Children. After Aerith says “You see, everything’s alright”, Cloud says “I know I’m not alone. Not anymore,” which means he felt alone even with Tifa this whole time, thus distancing himself, until that moment where he was able to reconnect with Aerith and forgive himself for her death. Cloud is then shown to be looking for Aerith in the credits video "Calling" even after gaining forgiveness, which means his searching for her goes beyond guilt. It's because Cloud is still in love with Aerith since he feels understood and accepted by her due to her perceptiveness, which is what Cloud needs based on his internal conflict. This is why I can't ship Cloti and why I'm almost certain the developers will never make Cloti canon, because it doesn't fit Cloud's characterization and his needs. Tifa is the misbelief-based love interest and Aerith is the needs-based love interest based on his internal conflict which is why Cloud is always shown wanting to reunite with Aerith after her death and never settles for Tifa in CoT and AC.

@ALostExplorer

3 ай бұрын

​@@xfairfaeriex I'd love for you to elaborate on how you thought Tifa deceived Cloud even if she didn't mean it. There are certainly a few things I have grasped, like maybe pretending that they were childhood friends (or introducing themselves as such to others) when they weren't; or (at least in the OG) not coming forward to question Cloud's recollection of events at Nibelheim. Maybe there are other details I'm missing. Or maybe you can expand on how Cloud responded to Tifa after they left the Lifestream and realised the extent of her deception. That part wasn't too clear to me either.

@xfairfaeriex

3 ай бұрын

@@ALostExplorer Tifa’s deception is multilayered in that she both unintentionally and intentionally deceived Cloud however my big issue with her deception is the massive consequences her intentional deception had on Cloud and her lack of accountability for it. Cloud seems to outwardly forgive Tifa (“It's not your fault, Tifa”) to her meager apology (I’ll share more on that later) and, I don’t know whether he’s allowed himself to think as deeply as I have on the topic of her deception, however I think deep down his mind is scarred from Tifa’s deception and her lack of validation for his struggles because he doesn’t allow himself any closeness or vulnerability with Tifa after the Lifestream sequence (outside of the high affection Highwind scene which is debatable anyway) as seen in Case of Tifa and Advent Children. This signifies that they haven’t actually bridged their gap, even though Tifa was literally inside of Cloud’s mind and he shared all of his struggles with her. Tifa unintentionally deceives Cloud into thinking they’re childhood friends/osananajimi. In Japanese, it means someone you’ve known since before you can remember (there’s often a romantic connotation/relationship depth to this word). Connotations of the English/Japanese aside, the important thing to remember is Tifa’s altered perception of how close she thought she and Cloud were (which we’ve discussed on another thread). The reason her misremembering their closeness is a problem is that Cloud's Jenova cells copied Tifa’s 'memories' for his own when they first meet again in Midgar per the FFVII Ultimania Omega ("Immediately prior to the start of the game, when Cloud's mind was shattered, he ran into Tifa and seemed to immediately return to "normal"; this was because the mimic abilities of the Jenova cells inside Cloud read her mind, seeing her memories of him, which were then combined with his own ideal vision of himself, fashioning a new personality for him...." P.11,13). This made it so that _Cloud_ also thought they were closer in OG than what truly happened as kids in Nibelheim. Not blaming Tifa here for this but just the circumstance of Tifa’s self-brainwashing which is now affecting Cloud. Tifa also intentionally deceives Cloud however I read on another comment of yours that you haven’t played OG. This one is never brought up by Clotis (I wonder why…) nor have I seen it expressly in any of the Remake+OG analysis media I’ve watched and is therefore likely a relative spoiler for you (Crisis Core has kind of brought it to light) that leads to a host of massive spoilers in my analysis so read at your own risk because I think Square might be saving this as a big moment for the third installment of Remake (haven’t play Rebirth yet to be able to tell if things play out similarly in key locations there). *Huge spoilers for FF7OG ahead* Tifa intentionally deceives Cloud about the Nibelheim incident in OG by lying to Cloud in Junon, in Gongaga, and through lies by omission after that until the Lifestream sequence which is when she admits, “I've been hiding it for some time,” and then reveals what happened on her end during the Nibelheim incident. When Cloud asks in Junon during OG about where Tifa was during the Nibelheim incident, Tifa lies about them seeing each other, lies about not remembering other things, and then quickly changes the topic: Cloud: Tifa… When Sephiroth and I went to Nibelheim, where were you? Tifa: ...We saw each other, right? Cloud: The other time. Tifa : No... it was 5 years ago. I don't remember. But, something seems strange outside. Cloud, come quick. In Gongaga, Cloud asks Tifa if she knew Zack due to her mumbling his name after a visit with Zack’s parents and Tifa lies about not knowing Zack: Tifa: Zack...... Cloud: Do you know him? Tifa: N, no, I don't know him! Cloud: Your face tells me differently. Tifa: I told you, I don't! Cloud: A, all right. Tifa: ............ That sounds just like you, leaving town, and saying 'I'm joining SOLDIER!'. Cloud: There were a lot of guys like that back then. Tifa: You must really be something making it in SOLDIER out of a group like that. I really respect you... I believe Tifa’s line about Cloud “really being something” and “respecting” him joining SOLDIER (aka liking his SOLDIER persona) comes up if you have high enough affection points with her during this scene. I’m adding this here as per of one of our other conversations about how Tifa was into Cloud’s SOLDIER persona in OG and I think that’s partly why she didn’t tell him about him not being the SOLDIER in Nibelheim (aka Zack). I think too few people look into the depth and breadth of the consequences of Tifa misleading Cloud about being the SOLDIER in Nibelheim. Cloud thinking he’s in Zack’s place during the Nibelheim incident is what allows Sephiroth to manipulate Cloud and break his mind. There’s a whole scene at the Northern Crater where Sephiroth tells Cloud he’s a created puppet and uses Tifa’s hesitance and the Nibelheim mansion photo of Zack as proof that Cloud is a “failed clone” and “puppet”. Cloud isn’t actually bothered by it but Tifa’s guilty consciousness sure is because she gets agitated by it. Cloud then is still fine until he can’t remember how he joined SOLDIER but ‘brushes it off’. Afterwards, they see Shinra there and Cloud asks for the Black Materia from a party member while apologizing to everyone and then begs Hojo for an experiment number. That part is so heart-breaking because it’s obvious Cloud has believed Sephiroth’s lies about being a created puppet which is why he wants a shred of an identity via a dehumanizing experiment number from Hojo (“Professor Hojo... I don't have a number. You didn't give me one because you said I was a failed experiment. . . Professor... please give me a number. Please, Professor...”). Cloud then hands the Black Materia to Sephiroth and WEAPONs awaken as Meteor is summoned and Cloud falls into the Lifestream. After the Lifestream sequence, Cloud’s memories are restored and Sephiroth can't control Cloud anymore (you’d best believe Sephiroth would've tried that tactic during the final battle if he could) which means a lot of Cloud's woes were enabled by Tifa actively lying and refusing to tell him his error about the Nibelheim Incident. Not only that, Cloud was manipulated at the Temple of Ancients to give Sephiroth the Black Materia (the first time), to beat Aerith, and to try to kill her at the Forgotten City. Can you imagine how heavily those events must have weighed on Cloud’s mind? Tifa could have prevented Cloud’s mental breakdown, his manipulation, and his handing the Black Materia to Sephiroth twice if she had just talked to Cloud. Aerith also went on alone to the Forgotten City for Cloud's sake in OG, saying, "And let me handle Sephiroth. And Cloud, you take care of yourself. So you don't have a breakdown, okay?" She could tell Cloud was on the brink and was willing to fight his battle for him so that Cloud didn’t have to face Sephiroth and deal with a likely mental breakdown. Why else go alone? That means Tifa could have also prevented Aerith’s death and Cloud’s failure to protect Aerith (which we saw weighed heavily on him in AC) by preventing his manipulation in the first place if she hadn’t been a Lockh(e)art about it (i.e. just talked to Cloud), especially when he asked her twice (Junon and Gongaga) about things related to the Nibelheim incident. Obviously, there’s no way Tifa could have known any of these events would happen and didn’t intend for these consequences (this is what I meant by her not “intending for any of it”). I don’t think she could have known she could prevent Aerith’s death because only Cloud spoke to Aerith in his dream so Tifa had no idea as to why Aerith left all alone. I’ll give her a break on those things, but Tifa never actually apologizes for actively lying to Cloud nor does she reflect on how her lies impacted Cloud in any of the ways I mentioned. The only thing Tifa apologizes to Cloud for in OG is for not remembering their childhood accurately and uses that as an excuse for not doing something sooner (“Sorry, Cloud. If I had only remembered more clearly what happened, I could have done something sooner......”) despite full-well admitting earlier that she was “hiding [the Nibelheim incident] for some time.” I also have a lot to say on Tifa’s being “supportive” to Cloud in the Lifestream sequence but I’ll share more on that only if you don’t mind the spoilers.

@ALostExplorer

3 ай бұрын

​@@xfairfaeriex I don't mind the spoilers; Once you wrote down Jenova I think we're well past the point of hiding stuff. I have heard the Jenova stuff before from a Pollen Ainne video before so it didn't come as a shock to me. I'll put aside what you wrote about Gongaga and Junon and just focus on the unintentional deception Tifa had on Cloud through acting like his close childhood friend (lying by omission). Honestly, once Cloud figured that he wasn't close to Tifa at all as kids it does feel like he still has a ton of awkward questions that were left un-answered. If he had a sense that his memories came from Tifa's imagined version of their childhood (from taking her word for it or Jenova or both) and that they weren't right at all, the next obvious thing he'd probably ask/wonder was why Tifa allowed herself to believe what she did. None of the answers he'd likely receive will reflect well on Tifa; they will likely lead Cloud to think that she has zero self-awareness of herself or her feelings. Even if Tifa decides to blurt out that her self-deception was a product of her crushing on him, Cloud may be flattered... but that only leads to more questions as to why she had that crush at/near the start of the game when she barely knew him and ignored him in childhood. Answers from those won't reflect well on her either, whether she admits to a physical attraction or even Audriari's suggestion that she wanted a reminder of her idyllic past and has nothing to do with Cloud as a person at all. I hope you don't mind if I take some of the arguments I made from another comment, but I do have to wonder if the false belief of being childhood friends acted as a sort of hindrance between Cloud and Tifa. In the short term, maybe it was a way for Tifa to monitor Cloud and stop him from just skipping town, but in the long term it bred complacency from both in that they really didn't feel the need to get to know one another or ask questions about each other because they're childhood friends and they OUGHT to know already even when they truly don't. Compare that to how Cloud was near ground-zero with Aerith, especially in the Remake, and they had to build their rapport and relationship from the ground up because they know they can't work together otherwise. And that starts a virtuous cycle in that they spend time together and get to know one another, which convinces them to spend more time with each other which gets them to learn more about each other and so on and so on. There's just a sense of curiosity between Cloud and Aerith so at least in the Remake they're in the habit of being more open to one another. That curiosity is less present between Cloud and Tifa despite a ton of catching up to do, and I do have to wonder if they could have come close to the rapport Cloud had with Aerith if they knew from the start that they just grew up in the same village but knew little else about each other. Honestly, it sometimes feel like they only feel motivated to get to know one another when circumstances demand them to. My current read on the limited evidence I have on hand suggests that Cloud did forgive Tifa for her intentional or unintentional deception... but I don't think he forgot per se. Maybe that's from seeing how much harm Tifa unintentionally caused from her inaction, like you suggested, but I also consider the possibility of his feeling exhaustion from parsing out where he stood with Tifa, what she knew and when and whether she was lying or not at this moment or that; I mean, if you and I are scrambling our minds to decipher Tifa's mental book-keeping, that sort of review is probably taxing for Cloud too and he probably wants as little to do with it as possible. That's why I think he continued to long for Aerith, at the end of OG and through to Advent Children. Things are far less complicated with Aerith. Cloud knows where he stands with her and vice versa, and that makes a huge difference.

@xfairfaeriex

2 ай бұрын

@@ALostExplorer I wouldn’t say that Tifa’s false belief of being childhood friends is lying by omission since Tifa believed her self-deception so she was being “truthful” as far as she was "aware". I have somewhat of a hard time coming to terms with the Ultimania’s reason of the Jenova cells copying Tifa’s childhood memories for two reasons. 1) Cloud is very coldly towards Tifa in the beginning of OG _after_ getting her memories. He tells Tifa, “Too late to be saying that now. Why'd you come along anyway?” when she admits she’s scared on the second bombing mission. He also refuses to help her and Avalanche with the second bombing mission even after Tifa asks him _three_ times to help and Cloud wants to break his promise (“I'm not a hero and I'm not famous. I can't keep...... the promise”) after forgetting the promise and being reminded of it by Tifa (“So! You're really leaving!? You're just going to walk right out ignoring your childhood friend!?......You forgot the promise, too. […] Remember...... Cloud. It was seven years ago... ”). It’s only after Barret pays up and says “A promise is a promise! Here!!” that Cloud agrees to the second mission for a RAISE. Doesn’t sound like there’s any good will towards Tifa. Also notice Tifa’s guilt-tripping/shaming of Cloud - a recurring theme. 2) Cloud is very confident in fact-checking Tifa in the Lifestream sequence and it’s Tifa always saying, “Was it?” and “…that’s right”. That being said, Cloud wouldn’t have agreed to the childhood friends label if he fully remembered their childhood so maybe Cloud’s heart knows what actually happened whereas his mind believes Tifa’s/Jenova’s version. That would explain why Cloud says, “It’s not like that. More like… I don’t know how to explain…” when Aerith says Tifa is "special" to him because his mind ‘knows’ one thing (childhood friends) while his heart knows another (not close at all) which is why he can’t explain and doesn’t tell Aerith that they’re childhood friends. While I agree that there are a lot of unanswered questions for Cloud about why Tifa allowed herself to believe her version of their childhood, it unfortunately doesn’t happen that way in OG. Cloud immediately offers Tifa an out about the first memory he shares which is the Mt. Nibel accident: Young Cloud: Tifa...... did you forget...... about those days? Tifa: Look...... I...... I'm sorry...... But what are you talking about? Young Cloud: No...... it's all right. You were having a hard time back then. You were so busy with your own things, it's only natural you don't remember me back then. I really hope that Square delves into your great points about Tifa’s misrecollection and the reasons behind it in the third installment of Remake because I think that’s another reason why Clotis don’t see how questionable Tifa is as a love interest for Cloud since it’s glossed over in OG unless you close pay attention. I like your argument that part of the hindrance between Cloud and Tifa may be their false belief about being close so they don’t feel the need to learn more about one another however I think there are stronger reasons for their lack of emotional intimacy. 1) Tifa seems to want Cloud to stay as she conceived him in her mind (hero SOLDIER) rather than learning more about the real him. I think this is why there is a lack of curiosity from Tifa to Cloud because it would burst her bubble that she’s created for herself of SOLDIER Cloud protecting her via the promise she "strong-armed" him into per the FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania. Tifa also calls the promise “irreplaceable” despite it being a “simple idea” in Traces. a. OG - Tifa says Cloud is “really something” and “really respects” he made it into SOLDIER when she has high affection points for him. b. OG - When Cloud is missing for a while after he falls in the Lifestream in the Northern Crater, Tifa misses Cloud’s persona despite his likely outcome being death (“......If only Cloud was here, everything would be fine. Cloud would...... Stand that cocky little way he did, and tell us what to do. He'd say, 'Everything's under control, Tifa.'”) c. OG - Tifa lies to Cloud in Junon and Gongaga and doesn’t seem interested in hashing out why their versions of the Nibelheim incident are different and how Cloud even knows about it since he ‘wasn’t there’. She says she wants to keep an eye on Cloud when she first sees him in Midgar since things ‘don’t add up’ (“All the things you didn’t know that you should. And other things you shouldn’t know that you did. I wanted to make sure…”), but she never _addresses_ these things until her hand is forced. d. Remake - Tifa asks Cloud about what went on after leaving the village twice but Cloud gets touchy talking about Shinra/SOLDIER, “Not exactly small talk. Especially with someone you haven't seen in a while.” Tifa doesn’t try to engage Cloud in any other way about himself like his interests, friends, travels, etc. 2) Tifa is a Lockh(e)art (i.e. isn’t vulnerable/doesn’t share with others) a. Traces - Tifa omits things, likely many things, when talking to Aerith, Barret, and Red XII as she tells them about her past. (I’ll share more on this as a response to your “frame story” comment on the other thread.) b. OG - Tifa hides her feelings and keeps secrets from Cloud. She doesn’t reveal her secret until it’s forced on her, when she and Cloud fall into the Lifestream together during a WEAPON attack, which is about 75%-80% through the game. It’s at a point of no return because Cloud was catatonic from mako poisoning, Meteor was summoned, WEAPONS were on a rampage, Aerith was dead, and they both had fallen into the Lifestream which is toxic. c. Remake - Tifa doesn’t share her inner world with Cloud when he says, “If you want to talk, I’m listening”. d. Remake - Cloud asks Tifa if she’s been in Midgar/Sector 7 for a while and Tifa answers him but quickly changes the topic like she doesn’t want to talk about what happened in that span of time, “Five years, give or take... But never mind that! We've gotta get you your money!” e. Remake - Tifa wants Cloud to make good on his promise when saying she's “trapped” with Avalanche but, when he forgets the promise and only says, “If it feels wrong, don’t do it”, Tifa sighs while shaking her head and has a long silence without telling him what the issue is and what she really wanted from him. Only after randomly seeing the windmill during Jessie’s mission does Cloud put two and two together. Cloud’s always putting in the work when it comes to Tifa but it's rather one-sided which is a sentiment Pollen Ainne shares in a comment under this video. f. Case of Tifa - Tifa wonders about the status of her relationship with Cloud but only ‘asks’ him when he’s asleep, “After making certain that Cloud was asleep, she said to him. 'We'll be all right, won't we?' Of course, there was no answer. Only the sound of Cloud sleeping could be heard. Tifa wondered if the fact that he was sleeping here meant that he was part of the family. 'Do you love me?'” g. Case of Tifa - Tifa wants to spend time with Cloud as a family and never tells Cloud she wanted them all to spend time together, “Tifa tried closing the bar for a day every week but it didn't stop Cloud from doing his job. Cloud couldn't turn down requests. Although Tifa wanted everyone to be able to take some time off together now and then, she decided that it was too selfish of her. During that time, it was Marlene who noticed a change in Cloud. She told Tifa how Cloud would sometimes look up at the sky and not pay attention to her.”

Not really sure a semi-implied one night stand makes for a cannon couple unless there was some other confirmation of Tifa and Cloud actually getting together post AC that I'm not remembering. That aside, Cloud & Tifa's bond being based on shared trauma is spot on. They weren't actually friends as kids and only became friends during the events of OG FF7; which was entirely driven by the struggles and trauma they went through: losing their hometown, losing Avalanche, losing Aerith, fighting Shinra & Sephiroth. Yeah at various points in their lives they did have crushes on one another, but in both cases those crushes were rooted in who each thought the other was, as opposed to who they actually are. To me the real difference in the two women all boils down to Tifa constantly trying to get Cloud to return to who she thought he was compared to Aerith wanting to know who he actually is.

Thank you for pointing all these little details out that I passed by but definitely subconsciously noticed. I feel the same way too. While Tifa got Cloud to open up, Aerith got Cloud to open up more. The way Aerith did it, it was so organic, so natural that there's no other choice but to declare her the best choice for Cloud. She brings out the best in him and makes him the most at peace with himself.

Cloud x Aerith love dynamic got deeper in rebirth

Aerith is the only one to get Cloud to open up...even Cloud considers the other character as friends. Aerith is the only one to shock Cloud by grabbing arm or grabbing his hands. Cloud became more protective of Aerith in the Rebirth. Oh my goodness, Can't wait for you to talk about Rebirth. Oh, new subscriber here.

@jinnimoo

2 ай бұрын

Saying Cloud only opens up to Aerith is wild considering the Gongaga bedroom scene happens 🤯 Tifa is literally the ONLY one he shared his deepest insecurities with in an extremely vulnerable moment.

@WindDark-ce4pc

Ай бұрын

@@jinnimoo Yup...after he was possessed and tried to kill her, as if trying to explain why he intentionally killed her.

@anndeo3818

Ай бұрын

@@WindDark-ce4pc calm down. Exactly fool you even said it. Posessed. Real cloud would never hurt tifa. His life's purpose is to protect her and defeat sephi. Maybe get off the internet and stop trolling people. Cloti is cannon. The end. 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

@WindDark-ce4pc

20 күн бұрын

@@anndeo3818 yes.. ONLY RIGHT FOR YOU 🤣🤣🤣

why is this so well thought out what the hell? I love this.

I absolutely love the choice of clips you used in this. You can really tell how different Cloud views them both. and i personally just love how cute they are!! I totally agree with you! I wish there were more romances like this in fiction Super well done btw! The transitions are so smooth and the sound quality is great! I can't believe this is your only video on this channel! I can't wait to see more. Subscribed almost immediately. And thanks for putting timestamps and credits in the description! I'll be looking forward to more Mythrl content!

The editing!! ❤ !! Such great takes. Love it! Can't wait to see more!

So, what are your thoughts about Cloud and Aerith after the latest Rebirth trailer and new theme song? I don't understand why people keep saying the developers left the option up to the players about who Cloud is in love with. Sure, there are options like Cloud and Barrett, Cloud and Yuffie, and Cloud and Sephiroth. But none of those make any sense when it comes to the story supported by the entire FF7 compilation. I played the OG FF7 when it first came out in the late 90's as a teenager on my PS1. Spent hundreds of hours playing the game, maxing my stats, etc. I never even know that Cloti was a thing since the internet was so new at the time and there weren't a lot of people debating it online.

@mythrlmoogle

6 ай бұрын

I am honestly not going to form a strong opinion until I play the game for myself. Trailers can be a bit vague sometimes, and there is not enough information to give a proper analysis. After I play the game, I plan to make another video on it though :)!

@user-df8lp9zq8s

6 ай бұрын

It is open to interpretation and always was . Why? Because Aerith is dead and we learned that Cloud had crush on Tifa, when he was a child. Thats why. If she is gonna survife than we can talk

@quangthaitruong7960

6 ай бұрын

@@mythrlmoogleAbsolutely agree! Just because there are many of them together in the trailer doesn’t make them a couple. But you could interpret it as an implication that the two may be developing feelings for each other. Anyway, look forward to your video after rebirth.

@quangthaitruong7960

6 ай бұрын

I actually think the options make sense. The point of the options is for the player to spend time with their favourite character, so Cloud’s “date” with Barret or Yuffie even Tifa could just be wholesome, cute bonding moments that do not have to be romantic.

From another upcoming KZreadr, this was SOO good! I can’t wait to see your thoughts on Aerith and Cloud In Rebirth :)

I love this video! You are amazing at explaining with clear detail. ❤

This analisis is perfection. Thank you, really.

I loved this video! Clerith is my favorite couple of all time, and watching this video analysis was a joy! I would love to see more of your thoughts about them if you're interested of uploading more videos about them. I'll definitely would like to see more of your content!

This is such a well done and thought out video! Ive always thought cloud/aerith is the more interest ship and your video explained this perfectly.

Enjoyed learning your view on this topic yo, good job!

@mythrlmoogle

9 ай бұрын

thank youuu!

I love the easily missable detail that Aerith, the only one out of the three who doesn't fear the ghosts at all, is the only one targeted by Eligor. Much like Cloud she harbors so much sadness. Tifa does as well but she has no trouble letting it out

Hey there! Just found this wonderful video, and I wanted to thank you for sharing your insights! I'm especially thankful that this didn't turn into a shipping war, and that Tifa's role as a platonic friend is recognized as a perfectly fine relationship for Cloud to have in addition to his feelings for Aerith. Platonic friendships between two people of the opposite sex seem to be far less common than romantic relationships, and it's nice to see you welcome Cloud's relationships with both women in his own way for each of them. ^_^

"Cloud and Tifa are the canon couple." No, they aren't. And that is not even up to debate. Everything Nojima-san - not someone else - ever wrote, was exactly the opposite. By the way, canon is not an adjective. Cloud and Tifa are a thing and so are Aerith. It is quite simple. BUT thematically Aerith is the one because FFVII is a more spiritual story.

@mythrlmoogle

5 ай бұрын

I rectified my mistake in my pinned comment 😇😇😇😇

@Cetra29

5 ай бұрын

@@mythrlmoogle No problem, sorry for "rushing to the comments". I am so used to people claiming things nowadays that I just want to clear things up immediately.

@countquackula8539

4 ай бұрын

It's Cloud and Tifa.

Love this!

Great vid!

Cloud and Aerith were always true couple of FF7, Cloud truly loved Aerith, Aerith loved Cloud . They have songs for each other in remake its Hollow, in rebirth it will be no promisis to keep. Songs for each means they are canon. Cloud liked Tifa in childhood , Zack was first love of Aerith , but true love and best dynamic is Cloud and Aerith. Its obvious.Only death can break them. And I dont know why Cloud and Tifa are "canon", if even in AC they are not couple and Cloud still looking for Aerith

@NordicWiseguy

6 ай бұрын

Yep. FF7 is Cloud/Aerith story. Always has been and always will be. The advent children alone proves it. Cloud was miserable with Tifa and Aerith was on his mind 24/7. The man was so heartbroken that he moved away from Tifa's place into Aerith's church just so he could feel even a glimpse of her presence. Marlene said that when Cloud and Tifa lived together they slept in different rooms and they were constantly arguing. Cloud was miserable with Tifa. Aerith's death caused Cloud to lose his enjoyment of life. He was just wandering around depressed and without any purpose. It was only after he saw Aerith again in the end of the movie and realized that she wasn't really gone and that she will always be with him he got his will to live back.

@dustinjowen4427

6 ай бұрын

@@NordicWiseguy There's another ending version that Cloud riding on a flower road and he sees Aerith briefly. That ending implies that Cloud will forever love her and will reunite with her when he passes.

@ALostExplorer

Ай бұрын

Looking back, I now have to seriously wonder if Aerith being in a previous relationship with Zack (it was enough that she had fond memories of him and he called her his girlfriend) was a fact that some fans held against her as a potential love interest for Cloud. In that argument, her love for Cloud seemed to be 'lesser' than what Tifa had because the latter seems 'purer' in that she has loved no one else besides him. Personally, I just don't think Aerith's past history with Zack should be seen as a demerit, especially when Aerith herself has stated (and has shown) multiple times that she has moved on from Zack and wanted to be with Cloud first and foremost. Her relationship with Zack is just evidence that she lived a life before Cloud showed up. Honestly if the situation was reversed -- if Tifa was the one in a previous relationship despite holding onto The Promise -- I'd like to think that I wouldn't hold that part of her past against her or call her potentially unfaithful or untrustworthy. My doubts towards Tifa being Cloud's love interest was always centred around her obliviousness towards the sort of person he really is and his emotional wants and needs underneath the SOLDIER persona. Something else that I think works against Aerith for some fans was how her interactions with Cloud can be read both platonically or romantically. I think that's by design. If for some reason Aerith and Cloud decide against being a couple... I don't think their relationship or banter would be all that different because they just enjoy each other's company and are perfectly happy to keep things light and fun between themselves. Take romance out of the equation and just ask who Cloud wants to hang around for an enjoyable day out, and and I think even some non-Cleriths would see that he would pick Aerith to hang around if he had to pick one person because Aerith has a strong case for being Cloud's best friend in the party. Cleriths such as myself really appreciate how that strong platonic bond is the foundation of their strong romantic relationship. By contrast, Tifa's relationship with Cloud is harder to read in a platonic light; not only are there moments when they argue with each other and take awhile to make up (because, again, they don't know each other that well despite the pretense that they're 'childhood friends/osananajimi'), but the more physical nature of their interactions (especially the hugging and the optional kiss at the Golden Saucer) and the more romantic slant of their interactions leads some players to think that Tifa is the love interest while Aerith is just a good friend for Cloud. But it's that lack of a firm platonic base that also makes me worried about a relationship between Cloud and Tifa, and its flaws are something seen in Case of Tifa, parts of Advent Children and their argument at Kalm in Rebirth. Nietzsche sums it up pretty succinctly: 'It is not a lack of love, but a lack of friendship that makes unhappy marriages'. Cloud and Tifa never married but the point still stands. It's almost like some shippers put Cloud and Tifa together not out of the belief that they are the best fit for each other but rather out of some division of romantic labour calculus, which goes something like this: 'Tifa can't JUST be a friend for Cloud while Aerith can, so comparative advantage dictates that Aerith accommodates Tifa by staying as Cloud's good/best friend to make room for the ONLY thing Tifa can do, which is to be Cloud's love interest.' Finally, and on a related note, I guess shipping Zack with Aerith and Cloud and Tifa is a way to clean up any romantic loose ends despite, again, Aerith noting that she loved Cloud more than she did Zack -- even going so far to reject him in the Lifestream in Maiden Who Travels the Planet. It doesn't help that Zack is an extremely popular character in his own right while Tifa obviously a ton of fans herself, to the point of denying what they want isn't going to be easy.

I am just a FF7 fan that likes checking out what people are saying about the series and characters. I don't have a favorite between Tifa/Aerith but it's interesting to see different peoples thoughts on them. A a lot of fans seem really set on Tifa/Cloud, which I understand of course as Aerith dies in the 1997 original. Over the years since 1997 there have been so many bonus media expansions on the story and now when the Remake trilogy is coming out, I think it's in an all-to-play-for type situation between the two. Things like the crossovers with other games always being a duo of Aerith/Cloud, Aerith being the one that has the tied bow feature (like all the other main female characters in Final Fantasy) and things like the way Aerith talks about Cloud and Zack in the lifestream, I can see how people can make the case for Aerith being the canon girl. Ultimately I can't pick a favorite between the two but I am pretty excited to see what happens in the rest of the story. I also think Yuffie will still have a crush on Cloud in Rebirth but of course it will be played as a joke.

Not gonna lie, you starting off the video with cloti being canon was a bit sus to me since fandom loves to push that idea but the analysis you had was so spot on, clerith has such incredible dynamic that adds to both characters rather than diminish anything with them and also adds so much to ff7 as well as ff7r's stories. Cloud and Aerith are fantastic and complex characters on their own, their romance, chemistry and silent understanding of each other is like adding a cherry on top of both the characters and their relationship with one another. The remake did such a fantastic job expanding on their relationship compared to the scenes in the og. On top of that, I'm so glad you touched upon Tifa's agency because you're right she shouldn't have to settle for that sort of relationship, she's so much more and I hope remake expands on her character because she has so much potential. Very well done video, I really love how you broke down the relationship between the two!

I feel this video so much. Tifa deserves so much better, and men I hope she has her happy ending not with Cloud, not like this

@ALostExplorer

3 ай бұрын

Honestly one can flip what you wrote the other way around. Cloud doesn't need to settle for someone who has a hard time expressing herself and doesn't really get him - even if they care for one another.

What a fantastic video. This was a well put together breakdown for someone not well versed in this story. I just finished playing the remake a couple days ago and I learned some very nuanced moments I didn't catch thanks to this video

Good video, but Cloud and Tifa are not the canon couple

@mythrlmoogle

9 ай бұрын

good point, but i feel like it's heavily implied in the original that they get together when they are under the highwind, but maybe i got higher affection points for that scene in my playthrough of the original game. Also, tifa and cloud are a much more popular ship among western fans.

@dwafdiddledump

8 ай бұрын

@@mythrlmoogle i hope this won't come off as rude (shipping wars tend to make opinions/facts sound harsher than they intend to, i think) but... there is no "canon" couple in ff7. it was left ambiguous on purpose, even including the highwind scene. the developers themselves have stated that they don't really understand why people think that cloud and tifa are "together" post OG (particularly in advent children, and the surrounding materials like the novels, they do not come off as a couple) and that, even if the entire conflict of ff7 didn't exist (sephiroth, jenova, meteor, etc.) that cloud and tifa still wouldn't work out as a couple, in their eyes. and that's word of God... plus, if they really did "get together" why did cloud insinuate that he wants to meet aerith in the promised land, y'know? even still, these things are based entirely on interpretation and if that's how you interpreted the game, then that's fine! but just because cloud and tifa are the more popular ship here in the western world doesn't mean that we know all the facts. because, honestly, as a japanese game/story/product, i would look towards what JAPANESE fans think about the game/ships to see which one makes the most sense in context, y'know? american and european audiences aren't the end-all-be-all of opinions. they just like the way tifa looks/fights more... which is fine but that definitely influences why they ship cloud and tifa LMAO all this to say that, it doesn't really matter what ship is canon or not canon, this is all based on opinions and interpretations and we should just have fun with it. i, myself, am a clerith shipper who loves romance manga/anime so it makes way more sense for me to ship the couple that seem more like a straightforward romantic pairing, y'know? i'm a little defensive of them, so ONCE AGAIN i'm sorry if this seemed harsh or mean. i loved your video and analysis on them! thank you for putting the time and effort into making it!

@mythrlmoogle

8 ай бұрын

@@dwafdiddledump Thanks for the comment! it is my fault for assuming that cloud and tifa were canon, I kind of based it off of word of mouth and my own personal playthrough of the og game. My fault for the poor information there. I agree with your opinion about looking towards what Japanese fans think, and I am pretty sure in Japan Aerith and Cloud are more popular. For me, however, this video was a partial rebuttal to all of the hardcore Cloud and Tifa shippers I know. Most people that I talk to that are fans of the game have tried to (usually rudely) make their case as to why Tifa and Cloud are correct/canon, and it sparked this passion in me to write a great Clerith analysis. Once again, my fault for making it come off as/assuming that Cloud and Tifa are canon in my video, though. Also, I understand your defensiveness! I am also a defensive Clerith shipper if you couldn't tell from my video, and I am not bothered at all by your comment. Thanks again!

@xfairfaeriex

7 ай бұрын

@@dwafdiddledump 100% agree. Other than Tifa's appearance/fighting ability, I think there are two other reasons the West (North America/Europe) ship Cloti is because of 1) how 'struggle love' is portrayed in our media and 2) people tend to have a preference for plot (external conflict) over character development (internal conflict). Struggle love is hugely popular (e.g. Twilght, The Notebook, etc.) and is often portrayed as romantic and desirable, which I greatly dislike because it normalizes and pushes incompatible and often detrimental relationships. If you pay attention to Cloud and Tifa's dynamics, they often are not genuine with one another and are pushing one another away in some shape or form whether in OG, Case of Tifa, Advent Children, and even Remake. If you only look at the plot of OG, Tifa looks like a huge focus for Cloud but if you really pay attention to the Lifestream sequence, you see that Tifa is actually the source of Cloud's misbelief (the start of his internal conflict) whereas Aerith is the source of Cloud's needs (the resolution for his internal conflict) in the rest of the game and later Compliation entries. This is why Aerith is the intended love interest for Cloud but you actually have to pay _close_ attention to the Lifestream sequence and its implications for Cloud's character to know that. I've had a Cloti tell me I'm "geeking out" over the Lifestream sequence when it's _the_ scene to dissect in order to properly understand the protagonist (Cloud) through the internal conflict presented there because it last-minute subverts most expectations of who Cloud and Tifa are as characters and their dynamics when it comes to OG.

@midnightstarlis6405

6 ай бұрын

this is perfectly well said!

I wish this was viral , like you did this so good 😭

Amazing video!

Well made and great analysis ❤

After playing remake even I switched from motorcycles to flower gardening... 😀

Although they kissed (cloud and Tifa) if you follow her romance route. I still feel Aerith is the one cloud could not let go. In the flow of the story. If not for Aerith cloud would still build up those wall. It’s only Aerith and bringing all of them together they are close. In the OG, only Aeirth died only did the story progress through with Cloud and Tifa

@wmen48

3 ай бұрын

that scene felt like fanservice to the under the highwind moment. The way the walked out outta the gondola said to me - something more happened there. But even the kiss doesn't work with Clouds character. When Cloud sends the gang to find something they're fighting for Tifa stay with Cloud because she has no one else. Basicaly pushing him to go under with her. BUT his mind is fixed and he isn't grieving Aerith anymore. Saucer date is really outta character.

Great analysis

True. I want to see them hug and kiss.

@countquackula8539

4 ай бұрын

There will be a hug and kiss in Rebirth.......😮

Great video and great analysis! Even when you don’t look at the specific details of comparing Cloti scenes with Clerith scenes, there’s the whole **story** to look at. Aerith and Cloud are very much counterparts to one another, they complement each other with their differences, and yet also have quite a few things in common. (Both are victims of Hojo, both lost their mothers whom they loved deeply, both had lonely and isolated childhoods.) In the original, their story was always meant to be a tragic romance. Now, with the remakes, there’s hope that they just might finally get their happy ending. 💛

Spot on... Cloud's true love is Aerith, even if it means he ends up with Tifa. Its sad for Tifa, coz she is second choice and he ends up with her out of convenience in my opinion. Yes, he has love for Tifa but Cloud's love for Aerith transcends everything and that is what the truest form of love entails. Cloud's heart belongs to Aerith beyond life and death.

Their love triangle (or square lol) is very effective. Like for the 'right' reasons, its easier to say its CloTi and Zerith but for some reason, the narrative, chemistry and build up for Cloud & Aerith is just....irresistible. Anyway yes this analysis pretty much sums up why I fell in love with Clerith.

@wmen48

3 ай бұрын

because Zack should be with Tifa and Aerith with Cloud. That dynamic would be best.

Cloti is not a canon couple. Its Clerith. After all there is a Clerith Day, they got 2 remake songs about them and Clerith is more popular in japan then Cloti. Also Clerith has many official things. For example married picture. Groom Cloud only you can get with Bride Aerith.

@LeocaprioDinardo

3 ай бұрын

Whats that married picture? Can you explain better? It seems so interesting.

Nice video team areith she amazing like her 😊 I wonder what happened to tifa when she see cloud and areith close 👀

Make one for rebirth? Would love to see it. Love theories about the ships.

@cv3452

Ай бұрын

Especially the Golden Saucer dates 😊

This is a good analysis, new subscriber here

Thank you for this great video. I love Aerith so much.

8:08 Bruh, you just gave me an epiphany as to how the part 3 of remake will develop Cloud and Tifa's relationship... They be fighting monsters while smiling at each other and maintaining eye contact, and making the monster there a second priority

My starcrossed lovers 💔

Great video. Probably one of my favorite couples of all time. I hope you maje a Reburth follow-up video.

Simply perfect. I agree with you completely.

In a lot of ways, Cloud and Aerith greatly resemble the two kids (can't remember their names) from Bridge to Terabithia, a film that oddly resonates with almost all grown men on an emotional level women are somewhat not understanding on (not meant to be a diss in any way). I shared a meme on FB years ago that said something like "did y'all hear about that new rule change in the NFL? Okay men, now that the ladies aren't reading anymore, did you cry in Bridge to Terabithia?" When I shared that meme, I had an even number of reactions to it, and right down the center, the reactions were divided completely in half, half were likes, half were laughing. Half were men, half were women. EVERY man who reacted to it, LIKED it, and EVERY woman who reacted to it, LAUGHED at it. Meaning every single grown ass man who watched that movie secretly cried their eyes out and the ladies think we're kidding about it. We're not. The tragic ending to that story resonates with almost all men I think because most men feel like we have to put on some façade of stoicism. A lot of men are just quiet and moody outwardly, appearing cold and aloof, but deep down, are great big softies wanting and waiting to be saved by a girl with a pure spirit. All men secretly want to meet a woman that easily dismantles his guard completely, a woman that effortlessly breaks through his crusty exterior and makes him FEEL again. When a man meets a woman like that, he generally falls for her very fast and very hard. And in both cases, FFVII and Bridge to Terabithia, after meeting that incredible, joyous, spunky, bright and positive person, the main character loses her to a tragic death he couldn't prevent. Just like that, the best part of himself is ripped away. The light and bright colors in his dark world are destroyed and his reality is grey and bleak again. He had a brief taste of true beauty and happiness, and immediately lost it forever. I think it's what every man is afraid of the most.

@shelleybelleygaming

3 ай бұрын

Bridge to Terabithia made me ugly cry. I appreciate your male perspective on love and loss. I have loved Cloud since OG '97. Forever the tragic hero. He deserves his happiness. I'm hoping he is REUNITED with his happiness in Part 3.

@ALostExplorer

3 ай бұрын

The names you were looking for are Jess (the boy) and Leslie (the girl).

@MrHoll87

3 ай бұрын

@@shelleybelleygaming Admittedly, I really hope Cloud gets his happy ending with Aerith as well. Nothing against Tifa, she's great, I just like Aerith better.

@MrHoll87

3 ай бұрын

@@ALostExplorer Thank you! I could have looked it up but was too lazy at the time. Haha.

@Soleneus

2 ай бұрын

Am man, can confirm. Most men desperately hope for the happy ending, but the thought of losing that light will keep us up at night.

❤

Thank you for this... Aerith is a perfect empathic friend... She has a beautiful soul... However... we all know, Zack... will always be in her heart... Tifa and Cloud didn't end up together actually... just like you've said, their bonded thru Trauma... They did end up taking care of children biologically not their own (Advent)... and yeah its kinda platonic... Aerith finally rejoin Zack in the afterlife... Cloud and Tifa somewhat in a "what now?" stage...

I played the original game shortly before the Remake released and played FF7 Remake right after I've completed the original. I was not aware of any shipping or love triangle discussion since I was far removed from the general FF7 discourse at the time. While playing none of this ever came to mind. Cloud and Aerith were so obvious to me and I think Remake tripled down on their mutual love for each other more than anything else

Nice video

Excellent video essay! Really hope you do one now that Rebirth is out now

@mythrlmoogle

3 ай бұрын

Playing through it now! Once I finish I'll have a video in the making. :)

Clerith is beautiful. I want the young Aerith to meet young Cloud in a dream...So she finally say, "I finally met - the real you -". I know we as Clerith fans can't expect more, but better than nothing.

Hopefully you do another video for the clerith moments of Rebirth

6:16 The moment Aerith realises that Cloud doesn't realise he has a crush on her. 20:45 The moment Aerith realises that Cloud realises he has a crush on her. 9:53 The moment Cloud realises he's desperately in love with her.

I'm curious what the follow up to this will be now that Rebirth is out (and oh man that ending).

kinda unrelated but i love seeing tifa with aerith more than tifa with cloud after the two remake games, everyone but cloud would work with tifa atp. am i crazy? i dont think so.

@mythrlmoogle

3 ай бұрын

I think aerith and tifa have a fantastic dynamic! (and pretty fun romantic chemistry too)

I agree

Hey loved the video was wondering if u plan on making a part 2 for cloud and aerith whenever u play rebirth

@mythrlmoogle

2 ай бұрын

I have a couple of rebirth videos that I am working on now!

@wmen48

2 ай бұрын

@@mythrlmoogle I am so waiting :*

Beautiful video, well written. ❤

Well rebirth really took a step back with their romance. When Aerith sits on the water tower with Cloud she sais she wants to be alone. Cloud tries to stay but can't break Aeriths wall. But he should power through it because she needs someone close their. Also he isn't making enough of effort. The girls clearly talked about guys off screen....

@mythrlmoogle

3 ай бұрын

Yeah, I just finished my Rebirth play through, and I am working on a script now. I kind of have mixed feelings about this scene. On one hand, I think it's important that Cloud does respect Aerith's space when she really needs it. (as that is what you should do in a healthy relationship), but knowing Cloud's character, it seems unlikely that that was out of a place of compassion and empathy for Aerith.

@wmen48

3 ай бұрын

@@mythrlmoogle to your new script my, japanese friend translated for me the dream date and church part is completely different in japanese. Basicaly she outright said she loves him but in english it sounds like a friendzone scenario.

@mythrlmoogle

3 ай бұрын

@@wmen48 oh really? I never interpreted it as friendzoning in english i think it was clearly an awkward romantic confession. However, its interesting to know that it was more direct in Japanese. I'll check it out!

@wmen48

3 ай бұрын

@@mythrlmoogle pasting what she wrote to me: the original Japanese is a bit more clear: Cloud: Here is where you wanted to come Aerith: Got it right! Cloud: It was obvious Aerith: That's because we have few memories together Cloud: Over time, we'll have more Aerith: Is that what you want? Cloud: Yes, of course Aerith: It's a relief to know how you feel, I... I love you, Cloud, but there are many ways to love someone. Which one do you think I mean? Cloud: Aerith, you're acting very strange, you've been acting strange all day Aerith: Excuse me \*Hugs Cloud\*, Enough feeling guilty \*Pause\* Cloud... Thank you Bear in mind that "thank you", when said in an intimate setting such as this, can be interpreted as "I love you" in Japanese. But the sentence she says before that is even more clear IMO.

@wmen48

3 ай бұрын

@@mythrlmoogle Was thinking about what you wrote. And personal space aside, Aerith invades Cloud constantly but secretly he wants that. I think she needed the same someone to take the darkness from her. Atleast in her final moments she died with love for Cloud.

Can you please to a video about their relationship in Rebirth please? I am burning to know what you see there of their relationship! QwQ

@mythrlmoogle

2 ай бұрын

I have a couple of rebirth videos currently in the works!

@Matagu1

2 ай бұрын

@@mythrlmoogle Thats cool i can't wait for it! >///

I love this I got fully turned off from TifaxCloud after he got excluded from the avalanche celebration She didnt pusg for hin to be allowed to stay, she didnt consider it might be painful for him. Putting him back on the outside looking in just like when they were kids. Aerith pulls him in and acts counter to her mother who tries to push Cloud out. She goes out of her way to go after him. This subtle difference in how the two women respond to a friend being made to feel excluded. Tifa doesn't consider it as she hasnt felt it, Aerith knows it all too well and seeks to prevent Cloud from feeling that exclusion

Tifa is a what? Bro… you fumbled this video hard. The canon couple in the OG 1997 game is Aerith for Cloud. She just dies before their romance blossoms. The main musical themes for Remake & Rebirth are about them two. Let’s not forget these two are also the two first main characters created for FF7. Just because Cloud had a crush as a kid with no friends at all, it doesn’t mean he’s in love with Tifa as an adult.

i thought in the rebirth they are not kill her as it looked like . i desperately wish they bring her back in part 3 or kill cloud too. so that they can stay forever together

In fact, Cloud and Tifa do have a relationship after the end of the original game, but in the book On the way to a smile, which is a sequel to the game, it is said that Cloud leaves her because he cannot bear the depression over Aerith's death and He goes to the church where Aerith saved him in the game, which is where he is at the beginning of the Advent Children movie. The truth is I like both Tifa and Aerith, but I like Aerith more because of her personality. To me she is simply perfect.

FIRST

@mythrlmoogle

9 ай бұрын

lets gooooo!!!!

Great video, but I would argue there is no Canon couple. Americans in particular are adamant that there should be canon, but we must not forget that this is Japanese storytelling and the onus is on the viewer to interpret what they are seeing. This is made all the more clear when SE resist the opportunity to sink ships. Advent Children could have gone heavy on Cloti, but chose not to, being cognisant of Clerith sensibilities. The two single beds, the fact that the children are adopted and not the result of a union between Cloud and Tifa. Then to the contrary, Cloud and Aerith are never overt... Leaving breathing room for Tifa. It's all left purposefully vague to allow for that interpretation.

@nickisthemost

3 ай бұрын

Finally, someone that get it

Good video t but it could have a little more self awareness(Is that the word i'm looking for?). Like as in "This isn't me saying that you're wrong for being a Clotif . This isnt me saying: OH! CLOUD AND TIFA IS DISGRACE TO FF7! Nono i ......" But its your first video so that,s alright.

- SPOILERS REBIRTH - Why didn't we get to see a kiss between them ?? why Square ?? you've made such an incredible relationship between them, full of chemistry, something magical, since FF7 Remake...why did you give Cloud/Tifa a chance to kiss and not Cloud/Aerith ?? someone help me understand please

@EldenRing2023

3 ай бұрын

The type of hand holding they did during the high affection date scene at the gold saucer is one in japan that only couple does. And in her dream date, Aerith literally confess her feelings for him if you have a high affinity/affection score with her.

@francisco24slb1

3 ай бұрын

I hope so... May there be a miracle in part 3 and they get together somehow @@EldenRing2023

@dylangarcia0407

3 ай бұрын

Call me crazy but I feel like the kiss was somehow less affection than the hand holding. In the kiss, Tiffa approaches him and says that theyre really close which intiates the kiss and cloud then follows. With Aeirth though, cloud does not just let her hold him but rather reassures her and lets his hard edge guard down completley. It is extremely unlikely for Cloud to show off affection on his own which he does for Aerith. This can be seen in the scene from Tiffa crying in the garden, it takes cloud a second to hug her but its more just a response as to true emotion exchange.

@xZarazWracam

3 ай бұрын

that kiss sucked ass. It was so ooc it was hard to watch. It also makes 0 sense in context of the following chapters. The one almost happening between princess and Alphreid during stage play was milion times more romantic. Pure fanservice, and badly executed. Unless SE wanted to paint Cloud as complete asshole, but that I highly doubt that. Anyway, having optional content like that in the game at that point was a bad writing decision.

@francisco24slb1

3 ай бұрын

I agree with you... the scene is that my hope of seeing something between Cloud and Aerith, from now on, has been greatly reduced... just a miracle@@xZarazWracam

Have you played Rebirth? THis narrative is accentuated even more... Spoilers.. She is a part of Cloud... Even in death....

@wmen48

2 ай бұрын

could you plz ellaborate?

@quangthaitruong7960

2 ай бұрын

Lol spot on spoilers

I love to see Clerith more than cloti, why??? if you guys play rebirth and choose to date Tifa, after the Kiss scene, then cloud still will hold Aerith's hand after defeat sephiroth, this is SO WEIRD okay?! If U still don't understand what I mean, just ignore my comment, because U will always don't know what is common sense. that's all

@wingchun1719

Күн бұрын

Lol please get outta your basement

@Duo61988

Күн бұрын

@@wingchun1719 just continue your stupid thinking 🤡

@Duo61988

Күн бұрын

@@wingchun1719 just continue your stu pid thinking 🤡

I think maybe from an intellectual level Clerith works, and it seems like some people like it because it’s a better relationship (more romantic, extrovert/introvert, less conflict, tragic, star-crossed lovers). But after playing FF7 Remake and FF7 Rebirth it became clear to me that Cloud is really in love with Tifa. Cloud and Zack have always been my favorites, so I support Cloud x Tifa. I know a lot of Cleriths think all Clotis are guys, but I’m a married female with kids, lol. I’m learning to like Tifa. I was apathetic about her until FF7 Remake. I guess we’ll see what happens in the 3rd game.

@Nat_the_White_Mage

Ай бұрын

This is interesting, because after Remake many Clotis argued that after Rebirth everyone would be convinced (even hard Cleriths) that true romance was only between Cloud and Tifa. Now, a lot of them say that we all have to wait until the last part and then everyone will surely be convinced. I'm really curious what they will say after the third part. So I agree, we will se what happens in the last game

What I found is the Cloud in Cloud in the flashbacks and end of FF7 liked Tifa but the Zack and Part of Cloud in Cloud in the Early and Mid game of FF7 was drawn more to Aerith because of the whole Zack and Cloud being ‘one’

@ugh5281

6 ай бұрын

that has been debunked a million times, it's just a narrative spread by a part of the fandom who wants to invalidate cloud & aerith's bond and by ppl who just don't understand the story and the characters at all. cloud's feelings for aerith are his own, he does not have zack's feelings. people misunderstand the whole thing about cloud "being zack". cloud only thinks he's zack during the nibelheim flashback and he takes on some of zack's mannerisms and some stuff that zack told him about being a soldier but cloud doesn't think he's zack when he's interacting with aerith or anyone else for that matter, nor does he have memories of aerith. he sure as hell doesn't like her because "he thinks he's zack", that's complete bs. the whole love triangle in the OG game was always meant to be ambiguous and left up for interpretation depending on the choices the player makes during the story but cloud's feelings for aerith are very much his own feelings, it has nothing to do with zack.

@stavcy

5 ай бұрын

@@ugh5281thank you!

@user-df8lp9zq8s

5 ай бұрын

​@@ugh5281thats just facts

😂😂😂😂😂

i think the video is well done that brings up a lot of good and valid points for whats supposed to be your first video essay but the title really doesnt fit when the video is really just "ermm heres why cloud and tifa SUCKS ASS and why cloud and aerith is the oh tee pee" i dont really pick either sides because all this is frankly just childish to me and yall need some grass, but just pointing out that the video could be titled better / the video could have a stronger focus on the actual subject from the title. Like half of the duration of the video is just about cloud and tifa which isn't really that relevant in my opinion lol

@mythrlmoogle

2 ай бұрын

the purpose of analyzing cloud and tifa in the video is to juxtapose it to cloud and aerith and why i think cloud and tifa don't work as a couple in comparison to cloud and aerith!

I'm late to the party, but my take is, that the reasons for their chemistry in Remake are that first cloud is still using a mask, adapting this hardened according to his vision of a Soldier, hence I expect that the dynamic they have right now, as cloud slowly opens up, will ebb out in the long run. Secondly they may have intentionally presented Aerith in the best light they could, and still will in Rebirth, just to make a certain, highly probable event even more painful. The night sequences after the sector 7 plate fall actually show a slight change in pace regarding both relationships. Aerith tells Cloud not to fall in love with her, since his feelings are not real (they're his current persona's) while the scene with Tifa finally being especially vulnerable in front of Cloud and him for the first time opening up enough to actually hug someone, which is (depending on the culture, FF7 is not european so hugs are not too casual I guess) a sign of intimacy. Regardless if the hug was platonic on his side, it showed Tifa that opening up and sharing her feelings with Cloud is a 'safe action', hence she should feel more secure opening up to him in the future. Additionally Cloud actually hugged her a bit too hard, probably because he expressed his current emotions that way. On the other hand the Aerith scene showed Aerith actively inhibiting their relationship developement, which prompts him to ask if he had a say in this at all. If Aerith can read people well, than she must know that what yet stands before her is a part of Cloud, a part she really likes, but the real Cloud probably is not the right choice. She may like flirting with Cloud and she is a truly wonderful character, but the Cloud, Cloud will become is probably a better match for the Tifa, that Tifa might become, than Aerith is. And lastly, Aerith seems to have really loved Zack, and finally feels his presence again at the end of Remake. I doubt that Aerith can ignore her feelings for her 'ex-lover' the first man she ever loved, if she can get into any contact with him. Maybe she will actually be content with joining the lifestream if that means joining Zack, who has become more of a hero than when selast saw him. The Man Zack became (or may become in Rebirth?) will probably be a better fit for her. I just hope they will actually depict the character developement and romantic interactions leading to this outcome...

@ErenDenizMert

4 ай бұрын

Too much waffling. She said that so Cloud doesnt get too sad when she passes.

@Caerise

3 ай бұрын

Yes yes and YES! 100% agree with everything you said and Rebirth only confirmed it imo. Even after losing her ability to see the future she can still sense/remember the person in front of her isn't the real Cloud (as she said on the Ferris wheel). Aerith also confirmed she indeed still does love Zack, even after all these years. And Cloud is also being depicted as more proactive in the scenes with Tifa (hugging her and kissing her). So I get the feeling the developers are taking the story in the exact direction you described.

Tifa was never the side chick. Cloud became a soldier because he wanted to be powerful like the war-hero Sephiroth mainly to impress Tifa. During that time he was traumatized and mindbroken by being infused with Mako and his close friend dying. He wandered into Midgar and found Tifa (He mentions fate bringing him and her together in Rebirth during the Nibelheim chapter). Cloud took on Zach's persona as a coping mechanism to his mindbreak. Tifa took him in, got him a place to live, found him work that he liked doing. She obviously wanted him near her, they have the same apartment complex. Just watch her in his apartment when she says she's so glad he's back. She's smiling, she takes a breath that's probably full of butterflies and stretches. Just that little gesture says so much. He's her piece of home, the one thing she didn't lose from her past. Cloud and Tifa's relationship runs so much deeper than him and Aerith. Aerith basically tries to re-live her romance she had with Zach by doing the same things with Cloud. The way she looked into his eyes, that was with Zach at the same spot. She met him after he fell through the church roof, just like Zach. It'll cost you one date? Zach's pickup line. Aerith is alone and Cloud reminds her of her past love, so she's playful, assertive. Yes she's into him, but Cloud is mixed between her and Tifa. The problem with Remake being your basis of this is Tifa has many more great scenes with Cloud later on, the beginning focused a lot on Aerith. The romance could go either way depending on player choice. But for the two that mean the most to each other it's Cloud and Tifa. It's not just a trauma bond, they grew up together, they keep finding each other, and they care deeply about each other.

@wmen48

2 ай бұрын

You...complete missed it. Cloud never really had a deep connection to ANYONE. He always was that awkward. He wanted to be like Sephiroth because it was his male power fantasy. And Sephiroth was the alpha in the media. For him Tifa was a status symbol. Being the man getting the best girl. Tifa only really remembers Cloud for that promise because the moment was out of nowhere. He didn't get his Zack persona as a coping mechanism. When he arrived in Midgar in his zombie/black robe state Tifa recognized him. Jenova cells in his body reacted to his and hers memories and crafted the persona for him fit in. In before crisis you can see how at the beggining he is so robotic and unnatural. Tifa wanted him to stay because of how not normal he acted. At the beggining of the game atleast he seems human while not himself. There was no deep relationship. If you aproach it as og basis than you're even more wrong. Tifa never showed being attracted to Cloud. Aerith was flirting from the get go. But the thing is, og Aerith never was serious with Zack. For her he was an older flirty guy that she liked but saw he was like that with other girls. First time Tifa tries to make a move is IF you have a gs date. But even there she doesnt say anything and only makes a move on Cloud after his mind is restored.

I think that the point of making Aerith the main love interest is due to the fact that they are trying to cement how much Cloud changed after what happened with Zack. Also THE SWORD BRO. Tifa is a symbol of his weakness and he does everything in his power to protect her and keep her safe. Tifa doesnt let herself but Cloud is important to her. Its a trope honestly.

@user-df8lp9zq8s

6 ай бұрын

Zack has nothing to do with Clouds feelings to Aerith. Cloud was little boy with problems, and Aerith opening his heart, she accepts him, breaks his walls, and then she is dying. Thats just typical tragic love.