That's a good point about Nidhogg's silence

@octapusxft

Жыл бұрын

He basically denied the ishhardians any individuality

In short, the end does not justify the means. I am replaying the Heavenward expansion at this time and so, this subject has very much been on my mind. While I can certainly empathise with Nidhogg’s anger and understand his, and the suffering of his people, I cannot accept that undying grudge and rage. Much like the Ascians, Nidhogg never let go of the past, thus condemning himself and more importantly, his people, to centuries of suffering, pain and death. Nidhogg claimed that mankind was unworthy, cruel, vile, selfish and arrogant, but he couldn’t see his own failings. He acted much like man did but somehow believed he was justified because he was superior. Like the Ascians, he preferred to stay frozen in time and never hope again. That is the true tragedy. As for man, their memory is short, and selective, they are ever the victims. But the truth is always far bloodier then that. Pride was the downfall of both species. Brilliant video! Thank you. 👍

@rickscott9375

2 жыл бұрын

A very good point to be sure. Nidhogg also probably somewhere in his own subconscious even hoped man would betray dragon to justify his own stance. Ratatoskr's murder was unforgivable...as was Bahamuts...but Thordan the First wasn't driven by Pride...in fact you could say it was the only Deadly Sin he wasn't driven by. He was driven by Envy for the dragon's power, he was driven by Wrath at his own limitations, he Lust for the dragons power no matter the cost, he was driven by Greed for more power despite being the top echelon of his own kingdom, he was Gluttonous in his perceived need for validation in the eyes of his people, and he was Sloth in finding a better way. Thordan had no Pride in his abilities or potential, no Pride in his Kingdom and people. And he received the fate he'd forged himself. In a way Haldrath the first Azure Dragoon was more mature and a man than his own sire. Haldrath recognized the sin he'd partaken in and gave up a throne he had the right to claim. He left the kingdom in the hands of those he trusted. But sadly, trusted the wrong people. The Four Noble Houses, including House Fortemps, hid the truth, painted over it with gaudy falsehoods and religious fabrication, and made the common man suffer a Millenium of blood, oppression, discrimination and deception and no matter what side you were on you lost. That was the legacy Thordan the First left with his cowardice and laziness. And, let's face it, kicking his butt at the end felt hell a lot good.

I find Nidhogg’s pride to be a very bad personality flaw for him. It’s gotten a lot of people killed. I would dare say it indirectly got Ratatoskr killed as well. Not to say he’s justified or responsible alone, just apparent if one looks at the sequence of events. King Thordan essentially “shot the messenger” for this perceived superiority in addition to a myriad of other reasons.

@yoooo790

Жыл бұрын

True. But the major difference is that nidhogg is a dragon.

@acgearsandarms1343

Жыл бұрын

@@yoooo790 Species shouldn’t matter where pride is concerned. Pride is pride. It makes people do irresponsible things and inflate egos.

@yoooo790

Жыл бұрын

@ACGearsandArms he's a dragon. Big difference in terms of their rightful experience. You can't truly speak on his behalf of pride. Neither can I. But you're seeing things too much from a human perspective.

@acgearsandarms1343

Жыл бұрын

@@yoooo790 Am I? Nidhogg never had a great impression of mortals in the first place. I was trying to look at the sequence of events objectively, I wasn’t aware their dragon moral relativism was a factor in this instance because she was killed in any case.

@yoooo790

Жыл бұрын

@ACGearsandArms you forget his brother Bahamut was killed as well by humans. That was before the death of his sister.

You literally posted this a couple of hours after my friends and I began jokingly argue that "NIDHOGG DID NOTHING WRONG." Beautiful coincidental timing xD

9:54 Don't you mean he experiences it... Again and again and again and AGAIN

Great video that addressed the majority of points I brought up in my comment on the previous video. Although something about Niddhog believing he as a protector of the world has the authority to slaughter the mortal races of the world despite not being native to the world seriously bothers me, regardless of Hydaleyn assigning the protector status to Midgardsormr while she waited for the events of Endwalker. I do wish you mentioned how Niddhog forced his brood to attack with him regardless of their will though.

@SynodicScribe

2 жыл бұрын

I try to avoid data that's repeated in game ad nauseum. That way I'm not boring people with stuff they already know, and I'm leaving players that haven't played the game the chance to be surprised when they get to that point in the story. It's just how I like to structure my content. haha

@thepainsight

2 жыл бұрын

@@SynodicScribe Fair Enough. Good short series to watch as I count down the second until I can raid and enjoy Aglaia.

Now I’m hoping to see an exploration of the Knights themselves

I hadn't known about Nidhogg's attack at Eil Tohm

looking at it, there is much comparisons to be made between nidhogg and emet

@SynodicScribe

2 жыл бұрын

I felt I needed to make a cheeky reference since multiple groups don't see the races of man as "Worthy." lol

@KyrialArthian

2 жыл бұрын

@@SynodicScribe And to be fair, for a long-ass time, we really weren't. xD Looking at the differences between when the game started, and now at the end of 6.0.... it feels like so much more time should've passed in-game for such change to have happened.

@Ranixo286

Жыл бұрын

"I don't see you as people ergo it's not murder to kill you"

I didn't know dragons only had one parent. I believe I recall one of the Dragoon job quests.... in Stormblood I think, where you had to help help a dragonet and its father find said father's mate?.... Did you take that into account or is this the kinda situation where one dragon produced the dragonet, and then the dragonet took to calling their mate the other parent simply because they're its parent's mate?

@duppady5319

2 жыл бұрын

In the stormblood dragonet always refers the other dragon as his farther's mate, never once like a parent. The whole thing about a dragon and their mate is I believe to be a strong desire for companionship. In the 65 lvl quest you are asked why men marry, if you respond for love the dragonet says that it's not far off of why dragons have mates. Hraesvelgr and Shiva are very good examples of the whole seeking companionship thing. They had a romantic attraction to each other but as dragon don't need another to reproduce and even then Shiva was a child of the land (Men). The two were together not because of why humans would seek out another due to our primal instinct to reproduce (even homosexuals fall into this as they have sexual attraction and performs what is basically reproductive acts), but rather because of the desire for companionship, it's also the very reason why Hraesvelgr merges with Shiva. Even other dragons recognise this, for example vidofnir refers to Shiva as both her farther's mate and beloved on separate occasions.

@SynodicScribe

2 жыл бұрын

You got it.

@DemonKingRegalia

2 жыл бұрын

@@duppady5319 That makes sense. I recall picking "I have no idea why people marry" lololol

@AegixDrakan

2 жыл бұрын

@@duppady5319 I gotta say, as someone who is Ace (And thus only experiences romantic love, not sexual feelings), I really REALLY find that whole lore for dragon love really cool. XD

I've only recently discovered your channel, and I love the content you put out. So much lore and history behind FFXIV that I've forgotten about playing it over the years, or plot points I've glossed over thinking it was irrelevant, only now seeing the importance of how an event from Heavensward has a heavy impact on Shadowbringers and so forth. Watching these videos has done so much for me as an active player, to relive, and enhance my love for this game, and make sense of all the different pieces Yoshi P and co laid out to paint a massively larger picture. I have a request for a future video, in honor of the MSQ main scenario which is about to change due to the upcoming 6.1 patch, I would love to learn more about the Heart of Sabik, the source that powered the Weapons, the magic that Allag could barely begin to scratch the surface of. In Van Belsar's words, "Of what magic do you speak!?" I would like to know more about it. Once again thank you Scribe for these videos, and until next time, I WILL stay safe.

@SynodicScribe

2 жыл бұрын

You better! It's hard to have these conversations when one of us is unwell. As for the Heart of Sabik, tis a tall order indeed. Even I know very little about it. But I can dig deep and see what I come up with!

@KyrialArthian

2 жыл бұрын

@@SynodicScribe I always wondered about this too, and honestly, the only thing I've been able to theorize is that Lahabrea himself, or one of the other ancients, made it. Maybe we'll get a reference to it in the raids!

I love your videos! You pick such good subjects among the lore and communicate really carefully.

If title isn't working for your click through rate you may want to try "How Nidhogg Created Ishgard as we know it"

@SynodicScribe

2 жыл бұрын

Honestly it's a problem for most my content. Regardless of how I dress the titles, or cards, KZread just doesn't advertise my content. I can see it in the statistics. I dunno what I did, but the algorithm hates me. lmao But I shall not be discouraged! I will still make lore content in SPITE of KZread's nonsense!

@PeninatorSS

2 жыл бұрын

@Synodic Scribe Your content certainly deserves it, really liked your unarmed combat episode. I still think you might want to try taking some inspiration for your thumbnails, like from platinum WoW, lots of his videos have big bright text and characters pogging, imagine thordan pogging in this thumbnail, I can try making one for you if you want

I am starting to think that had Nidhogg won the Dragonsong War, he might have spread his fire to the rest of Eorzea, the Far East on Othard, and most likely Garlemald, he will not have stopped until all of the world is nothing more then ash.

@Nehfarius

2 жыл бұрын

Or until the Garleans or Ascians did to him what the Allagans did to Twintania.

This all could have been avoided if Nidhogg killed the people who murdered his mate instead of enacting literal genocide on everyone else regardless of what they actually did.

@mikoto7693

2 жыл бұрын

That’s actually a point I made in the comments of the video about Thordan’s betrayal that I watched but a few hours ago. I’m not fully convinced that the dragons aren’t evil or at least not as stupid and flawed that the humanoid… Hyuroid races are. You can see my full essay on the last video but the short version is that Nidhogg was totally justified in killing Thordan, his knights and other followers and so much could have been avoided if he’d just been smart enough to realise that and directed his rage appropriately. Given the nature of dragons I’d have probably even forgiven him targeting the children and grandchildren of Thordan and his followers. But after that the genetic and cultural shift would have made any further killing of the bloodline pointless. But hating every Ishgardian regardless of involvement with Ratatoskyr’s murder or not and their totally innocent descendants for centuries and butchering them by the thousands is monstrous almost beyond comprehension. Perhaps one of the most egregious things about Nidhogg and his blind indiscriminating rage and hatred is slaughtering the Hyur minority of Ishgard. No Hyur were involved in the murder of Ratatoskyr. It’s a bit unclear how the dragons viewed the other Hyuroid races including how Ishgard joined the Eorzean Alliance part through the Heavensward story. So aside from Nidhogg himself who I genuinely sympathise with because the nature of dragon memory his life after the murder of Ratatoskyr sounds like sheer torture. I’ve experienced depression earlier in my life and it really is awful beyond my ability to adequately describe. No wonder it drove him mad. But that makes the next all the much worse. So it means that the other dragons are complicit in the attempted genocide by Nidhogg because while some of them tried to reveal the truth to the Ishgardians, none of them actually made any real attempts to stop Nidhogg and his insane slaughter of thousands if not millions of completely innocent people. While Nidhogg was very powerful and determined, I believe that they could have outnumbered and outgunned him so that they could work together to stop or contain him. But they chose not to. Perhaps the very worst of them is Hvaesrelgyr who saved Nidhogg by giving him one of his eyes to prevent him dying. Ultimately he is as responsible for the attempted genocide as Nidhogg himself. He allowed the atrocities to happen without challenging it or reigning it in and at any point during the last thousand years he could have stopped it. But he got as much revenge on the Ishgardian people as Nidhogg slaughtered through him. By his own words, the only reason Hvaesrelgyr didn’t degenerate into hate, and join Nidhogg in his stupid vendetta was because of merging with Shiva and her soul that he felt her gentle, kindness and mercy. But it doesn’t make him a good person. He still sat back and watched the slaughter unfold for centuries without stepping in to stop it.

If you can’t protect your family, at least you can do is avenge them

i had a thought about time traveling to the age of the allagans or the reign of thorden and somehow stop the atrocities commited, save nidhogg from his grief but if then there would be so much undone but such actions, sure i'd like to talk one on one with bahamut and not just the false primal crated in his image, but then i think of stories like back to the future where a single change can cause a world of difference especially since the acian's would be at their most dangerous and yet to be sent back to the aetherial sea or erased from existence, who's to say that they wouldnt try something even worse than what ended up happening, cause yeah i do believe that the acian's had a hand in ratatoskr's death that kind of chaos fits their MO

@BlazeIgnitus

2 жыл бұрын

FF14 has two different forms of time travel and temporal shenanigans; it has both multiverse theory (the future that the Exarch came from still exists in a split timeline) and causal loop (events of Elpis). It's hard to say what might happen.

As Thordan VII said, King Thordan's betrayal was unconscionable and unforgivable but should his descendants be condemned to suffer for what they did not do? We can all say he was wrong for hiding the truth like his predecessors but in his argument with Aymeric you can see his own regrets over the situation and how many people he saw in sadness over their loved ones deaths and how he couldn't tell the truth because as shown with Ysayle and others those who grew tired of the conflict or learned of the truth sought to destroy Ishgard and even turn themselves into dragons.

@TheSuperRatt

2 жыл бұрын

I don't jive with that. The truth should never have been covered up. It wouldn't have changed the fact that Ishgard must still fight for its own survival, but it would show that King Thordan, and the culture he went on to create, understood their half of the culpability for the war.

@historian252

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheSuperRatt And again what should they have done? Rolled over and let Nidhogg do what he wanted done to the city?

Great video but I am curious to where you found that ratatoskr had the same feelings for Nidhogg, I read the 2nd encyclopedia but I only see where it would imply he had feelings for ratatoskr. If you could show me that would be really appreciated. I absolutely love the dragon lore of ff14 lol a bit of a dragon maniac xD

@SynodicScribe

2 жыл бұрын

It's not said "they loved each other" anywhere. Like stated, dragon romance is more abstract. But there are lines from Faunehm that state. "Thordan had murdered his beloved." Beloved is a term that the dragons almost always use on those they see as their chosen mate.

@shangospark7517

2 жыл бұрын

@@SynodicScribe So I guess after ratatoskr died his new mate was tiaman...then WoL killed her..damn Nidhogg can't catch a break

Good points

Yup. So unbelievably tragic. :(

I love this video! Do you think you could do one about soul crystals specifcally? Spoilers for the drk storyline but: I'd love to know how the soul crystal summoned myste especially ^^

@SynodicScribe

2 жыл бұрын

I actually made an entire lore video talking about Soul Crystals if you're interested! It's one of my earlier works.

@syrendsong

2 жыл бұрын

@@SynodicScribe oh you did? thank you

@syrendsong

2 жыл бұрын

@@SynodicScribe i've watched it now! but unfortunately the video doesn't really mention myste =c it was interesting regardless though

@SynodicScribe

2 жыл бұрын

@@syrendsong Dunno how much lore I can pull from the manifestation of the WoL's regrets but I can certainly try some time. lol

@syrendsong

2 жыл бұрын

@@SynodicScribe just pull an y'shtola and learn for the sake of learning ez c:

What's the location at 0:48 please? I can't for the life of me remember a pyramid @_@

@SynodicScribe

2 жыл бұрын

The Weeping City of Mhach

@Orukamachi

2 жыл бұрын

Thankyou sensei

I always sorta wished the dragons had become part of the Alliance. Like when fighting Garlemald at end of SB if we had had dragons and dragon rider knights to fight the magitek air forces and stuff.

@iantaakalla8180

10 күн бұрын

Meanwhile the dragons are only around to further the Omicrons’ story

I still can't blame Nidhogg. Given longevity, a love that streched longer than I can comprehend, and a memory which retains all, I'm sure I'd be no better. You don't explain yourself to rats after they've chewed on your cables. You don't explain yourself to an insect that bites or stings you before you kill it. His pain resonated with me, though. Even 6 years after experiencing the story, I cry thinking about it and sobbed through this whole video.

What is the source on the dragons being genderless?

@SynodicScribe

2 жыл бұрын

In game data as well as direct paragraphs pulled from their books. EE Volume 1, page 268 if you wanna read for yourself.

@BroadBoulders

2 жыл бұрын

@@SynodicScribe Thank you 🤙🏼

Wasn't bahamut the strongest of midgard's children?

@SynodicScribe

2 жыл бұрын

Not according to the history books!

@DistendedPerinium

2 жыл бұрын

In a twisted way, yes. Bahamut was mighty, but like all sapient beings, had the restraint that comes from intelligence and self-preservation. Even Nidhogg, as powerful, angry and insane as he was, had some measure of that. That restraint was stripped away when Bahamut was transformed into a primal. This allowed him to focus everything on destruction without thought of protection. As a primal, Bahamut was stronger than Nidhogg, but it can certainly be said that he really wasn't Bahamut, or even a dragon, anymore.

So if the omnicrons had attacked, Nidhogg was the Star's guardian. Now imagine if they had invaded after the dragonsong war. We're under attack and the Warrior of light just killed the only thing that could actually stop this new threat.

@acgearsandarms1343

2 жыл бұрын

What Omicrons? They’re an extinct race. Omega is the last one at the time.

@madambutterfly1997

2 жыл бұрын

@@acgearsandarms1343 I'm just spitballing here

@acgearsandarms1343

2 жыл бұрын

@@madambutterfly1997 They’ll love long enough to fight off any foreign threats.

10:11 I feel like the writers underestimated how vital forgetting is to consciousness when they wrote that lore. Not to mention that taking in that much information would fill up ANY brain VERY quickly if unable to forget, they would be unable to focus with all the memory clogging up there consciousness, the processing time on pulling up facts would be horrid, and at a point they wouldn't be able to make new memories anymore cause their brains would be FULL. They would either have to over write and forget or become functionally Anterograde amnesiacs. "What's for lunch my human friend" "I told you just a few minutes ago, we're having sandwiches?" *dragon loading screen noises* "I.... LOVE.... SANDWHICH...ES!" "That nice, so let's have lunch" "What's for lunch my human friend?" "Ah, I see your mind is full, I knew this day would come..." There is even a name for the condition of not being able to forget. It's called Hyperthymesia. That said, I suppose the answer to how they remain functional is "Becuase ather/magic" still, it's a little unsatisfying to me personally.

@SynodicScribe

2 жыл бұрын

SANWHICHES!

@GaleGrim

2 жыл бұрын

@@SynodicScribe SAMWHICHES! :D

@TheSuperRatt

2 жыл бұрын

You forgot one thing, my friend. Dragons are super magical aliens x3

Haldrith could've attempted to make peace, but he instead chose to keep the cycle of violence going.

@acgearsandarms1343

2 жыл бұрын

Peace with Nidhogg in his state is an exercise in futility. I doubt it was an option.

@madambutterfly1997

2 жыл бұрын

@@acgearsandarms1343 he didn’t even try his only concern was avenging his father the neurotic Thordan

@kaihedgie1747

2 жыл бұрын

@@madambutterfly1997 You ain't been payin' attention. Haldrath believed he already avenged Thordan by defeating Nidhogg and taking his eyes. Also, his concern was keeping Ishgard safe. He knew full well what he did was wrong and chose to become a dragonslayer out of shame for killing Ratatoskr and betraying the bond between the two races

@madambutterfly1997

2 жыл бұрын

@@kaihedgie1747 how does killing more dragons atone for the original sin?

@kaihedgie1747

2 жыл бұрын

@@madambutterfly1997 He condemned himself to a lifetime of fighting until his death rather than take up the throne. _As one who partook in Ratatoskr's essence, it shall be my penance to bear a knight's arms until death grants me leave to retire. When that day comes, no prince shall perish, but a hells-bound hunter of dragons_

Pog

@SynodicScribe

2 жыл бұрын

Dab

@gabrielshope2508

2 жыл бұрын

Based

@DiegoGangWeedBrando

2 жыл бұрын

And red mage pilled

Both the dragons and primals commit the same sin of collectively judging mankind for the sins of a few. To them, a mortal on the other side of the planet is just as culpable of a sin as the one who perpetrated it. It’s nonsensical and stupid.

@SynodicScribe

2 жыл бұрын

I mean the 4th Astral Era proves that mortals are just as stupid. They blamed knowledge itself as the reason for the calamities and burned books on mass. No wonder long lived races like the dragons think mortals are crazy. lol

@iantaakalla8180

10 күн бұрын

Honestly, I can see why it took the Warrior of Light to solve every single problem. Every single living thing had it out for some other group save probably the original Scions, and the precursors to the Scions of the Seventh Dawn (and even then Alphinaud held no hope until the Warrior of Light). Honestly, if anything FFXIV accidentally tell the lesson that you have to legitimately part of a fourteen-times-blessed godly race of mortals to cut through everything and change the world, and hope to be caught in the only forward-thinking group in Ethyris.

honestly the most tragic part of the dragonsong war was that everyone in positions of great power could've, in theory, stopped the war. or at least TRIED to. but no one did. also, i know the in-universe reasons but [gagging noises] did we REALLY need TWO pseudo-incest dragon relationships???? like. fellas, nidhogg already had a consort and him loving ratatoskr as a sister would still be motive enough for the war. and forgive me if im wrong, but the romantic bit was only added in shb with the lvl 80 drg quest, yeah? why retroactively add that in??? 😭😭😭

@SeathThePawn

Жыл бұрын

I think part of it is the fact that when we hear that, we still instinctively think of it in that uncomfortable incest way with the implications it raises, despite their completely asexual biology. But given that the way dragons think, live, and act are so alien and foreign to us, it's just not going to be one of those things we'd actually be able to properly comprehend. A culture clash if you will where we do look at it as pretty damn weird, while they would find it weird that WE find it weird.

I don't blame him at all. Humanity is the ultimate parasite.

@armpitbeard2031

2 жыл бұрын

ow the edge

@kaihedgie1747

2 жыл бұрын

And yet Nidhogg attempted to carry out his vengeance as a _literal_ parasite, even promising to kill his own if they don't follow him