I DO want FFXIV's general content to be much more difficult at level 100+ so I need to have the uncomfortable discussion...🦁🦁🦁 Please be kind! I think this topic is VITAL to discuss in order to seriously tell the developers we need to ramp up the mainline general content to be much more difficult than today! Weève set the bar so low for so long that we need to seriously have this hard talk.

@randomanon8408

16 күн бұрын

Maybe just up boss hp by 15%, and boss damage by 20%. And make 2 vuln hurt as much as current 3 vuln

@VizerPS

16 күн бұрын

dead giveaway/reminder that cole is canadian with Canadian Keyboard Mode getting a è instead of a '

@rynsalasthol1498

16 күн бұрын

I think the Dev team can do a lot to increase difficulty throughout the game. I would like to see the old Keeper of the Land and other dungeons come back as well as some job complexity. They are responding to feedback but they have over corrected. Yes there will be an adjustment period for many players and some might quit altogether but those that stick with it will learn and grow and the player base will be healthier and stronger for it.

@SubduedRadical

16 күн бұрын

Mr Happy said it best: "We are not the majority". In his video about Yoshi P and the 7.2 job "individuality" quote. The VAST majority of people are playing this game as a Final Fantasy game for the story. That's one of the unique things about it. THIS IS NOT WILDSTAR - STOP TRYING TO MAKE THIS INTO WILDSTAR. I don't think you're an "elitist prick", but some of what you're suggesting IS elitist. Any time the word "forced" is used, you're in elitist territory - or tyrant territory - no matter what good you think it would achieve. The VAST majority of the playerbase just wants to do the MSQ for the story then hang out with people and socialize. That is what FFXIV is. It HAS Savage and Ultimate raids for people that WANT to do them. But the vast majority do not. Why do YOU need them to? "Because they should be better!" WHY? If they aren't raiding, if they aren't engaging with the game at a high level - and NEVER want to do so - why should they? What are they missing out? People need to understand what THEY find fun not EVERYONE finds fun. Not everyone thinks "Playing my Job to the utmost potential is fun!" Many people think "Playing through a good story for the story is fun!" And this is what you would be robbing from them so that WAR players... ...know the difference between Bloodwhetting (which they don't even get until level 82) and Vengeance? How is that more important than players enjoying a story and a videogame itself for its sake? WoW figured this out allllll the way back in Vanilla. Give the playerbase Hunter so anyone with working stubs attached and either eyes or ears (not necessarily both) can play successfully. MSQ is not Ultimate. It is not Savage. It is not Extreme. It is not (Hard). ...and it's not supposed to be. Raiders need to stop trying to get everyone else to be raiders. Not everyone WANTS to be. And they don't NEED to be. And they certainly don't need to be "forced" into it. Wildstar died. Do you want FFXIV to die, too? Of course, I know the answer to that is no. So let me propose a different answer: The game should EMPOWER people to succeed. Not force them to. Give people mechanics that show success or failure at them, not punish them nor force them to memorize their Job's Balance page and Discord folder. That show them what things do and how they can use them, not by force but optionally. Have the game teach people things like weaving and the difference between an oGCD and a GCD - this skill considered essential in high end play IS NOT MENTIONED ANYWHERE IN THE GAME ITSELF. Reintroduce (Hard) mode OPTIONAL dungeons. Give players difficulties between MSQ/Normal content and Extremes. Give players that WANT harder things to do ways to cap tomes and whatnot doing those things instead (Hard dungeons again might help). Give the players tools. But if they choose not to use them...let them not use them. It doesn't hurt you to do so. It doesn't matter if a 4 man Duty takes 15 minutes instead of 12, especially if you're running the "Hard Roulette" instead anyway to cap your tomes. Accept that not every Job is the same and not every one is for everyone. BLM isn't for everyone. SMN isn't for everyone, either. It's fine for them to both exist because each is for SOMEone. Why does healing need to be "harder"? What even is HARDER in terms of healing? MP demands? Cast times? complex oGCD tooltips? Even that concept isn't clear, and why does it need to even be in the first place? . Just let people have fun. What is fun TO THEM, not what you think they SHOULD feel fun. Is there not enough force and suffering in the world that it must also be imposed on people in games that they play because they just want to experience a story? And no, "watch it on KZread" is NOT experiencing tthe story. It's the difference between going somewhere in person and looking at someone else's vacation photographs. The two are NOT the same, and we all KNOW they are not the same. And no, the story is not a reward to be held like a carrot in front of someone to force them to run on a treadmill for hours so that you can say "Don't you feel better now you're in shape?" You're a good person, Cole. I've seen enough of your stuff to think that. So that is it. That is the answer.

@normnavx

16 күн бұрын

I don't think this is uncomfortable. I think it needs to be known. I still don't know why dungeons CAN'T be harder even with this chat about upgrading outdated tutorals. There are trusts and i understand this doesn't work for roulette. Trusts can TEACH people how the mechanic works by the ai party members doing it. It won't fix damage rotations however it'll fix dead bodies on the ground. I would love to see ff14 do M+ dungeons like WoW with older dungeons that aren't just cirterian dungeons, but i don't think the community can do that til the devs do something about teaching mechanics and making it mandatory in some regaurd even to people who are caught up to main story.

So many people I know hate the second boss of BM but for me it was a high light of the 4.0 main story.

@alien_marksman

16 күн бұрын

I already liked Azim Steppe, but Bardam's Mettle cemented it's place as one of my favourite zones

@Orih9

16 күн бұрын

I think it's just strange that it's all the way at level 65. It's hard to go back and redo old stuff, but this feels like something we should've seen in the first dungeon, for example. I definitely want to see the game make better strides at teaching players the more intimate mechanics of the game. We need more than stone, sky, sea. Imagine something closer to a fighting game's input tutorials, where the game asks you to perform certain input combinations with weaving, and you can ace those for rewards.

@DKarkarov

10 күн бұрын

.... do people actually think that boss is hard? I have only failed it one time and it was because a party member literally ran their aoe onto me and I had no time to move away.

Counterpoint holminster switch and tower of zot are some of the hardest hitting dungeons in the game

@DevilSeiji

16 күн бұрын

Stone. Vigil. T.T

@cwh41187

16 күн бұрын

​@DevilSeiji that last BIG pull after the boss is a healer/tank check. All the physical a d magic damage coming in at that lvl is nutty.

@SoulSin

14 күн бұрын

I find this really funny. There are plenty of dungeons that hit way harder than others but the pattern doesnt stick. I guess that devs are that afraid of tankxiety and healerxiety that they don't want to ever push their buttons.

I don't think its inappropriate or rude to ask that healers need to heal in content or that its somehow 'gatekeeping' if the bar isn't set below sea level. Yes, its a narrative game. Yes, it needs to be a little on the easy side so no one gets filtered by the main plot and they get to go through and experience it. No one wants to gatekeep the story. But in a game with 19 classes and about to become 21, why do they absolutely HAVE to be a healer to get past these supposed gates? If you pick a backbone role that even early on, which even the plot with Edda is shown to be high responsibility (and high blame lol) and don't want responsibility then why are you locking in one of those 4 classes in the first place when there's so much more out there? This becomes especially true when a small roadblock occurs and a team needs more time to learn something res's are used. The only guaranteed source of resurrecting is on healers so I'm not sure why it would be a bad thing to have more confident people in that role in the first place. The saving grace of most casual content is the lack of enrage timers which makes sub-optimal dps work in the game. Look at 24 mans, especially certain Nier wings and Ivalice when they were new (or sometimes if they just suddenly got artifact incentives)-- those strugglebus fights that occasionally would have just 10 people living and the rest being chain rez'd periodically, still cleared amongst the carnage due to no enrages. The game already has options.

All im hearing is cant read. Everything you saud about the tutorial hinges on peoples ability to read. And anyone who does, already understands what they're doing

Counterpoint: the Lv70 SGE job quest "Sage's Focus". If it's been a while, I encourage you to find a video of it on KZread. It starts with Lalah requiring you to give her Kardia and EDiag, warms you up with a single mob with a long-windup tankbuster and then a small trash pack, before throwing you into the "actual" encounter with Loifa and crew. It's giving you some instruction, some room for experimentation, some relatively spicy hits, and theoretically would prevent anyone from proceeding before they can at least heal this much. An extremely casual friend of mine, who only plays for story and RP, came to me because she knew I was a SGE main, and asked me for tips because she was struggling to heal Trusts. After asking her some questions, it eventually came out that this job quest killed her a bunch of times, so she gave up and set it to Very Easy. There are ARR-SB job quests which are required to unlock some of your abilities, which can be set to Very Easy. The Shadowbringers Role Quests are MSQ mandatory, and in theory are tailored around a tank/dps/healer kit, but they can be set to Very Easy. There are several MSQ solo instances that could serve as skill checks and could require players to improve before proceeding further -- and I'm not even picking on In From the Cold, but rather things like those 1v1 duels against story characters in Patch 3.2 or Patch 5.3 -- but they can be set to Very Easy. And on the one hand, I am pro-accessibility. In a heavily narrative game, I don't think it's fair or appropriate to gatekeep players from being able to see the completion of the story, so Very Easy solo instances serve an important purpose. But at the same time, I agree with Cole's points that there's a hidden cruelty in *requiring* so little from a new player. There's no mandatory solo instance that requires the player to pass a certain threshold before being allowed to proceed to something like Savage. Even existing optional tools, like Stone Sky Sea, are largely ignored by the playerbase, which likely disincentivizes the devs from building an optional Hall of the Expert.

@lootmaster1337

16 күн бұрын

Yeh i did my astro fully naked till lvl 60 (personal challenge) and i realized "easy" (not even very easy) can be done that way. Very easy might as well just show you the video and be done with it. But sadly i also believe that we can't just remove the bad players, especially not from the msq. Maybe adding some sort of Trials of skills to unlock expert rouletts might help a bit to at least have some level of knowledge in the game

@billy65bob

16 күн бұрын

My First day in EW (after a 12 months break) looked like: 1. Unlock Sage 2. Organize hotbars 3. "YOLO!" - queue 50/60/70/80 Duty Roulette I got The Burn, I managed just fine, though Eukrasia tripped me up. I think I leveled most of the way to 80 before I even did the quests, so imagine by face when I saw the first was a tutorial! 🤣

@qamarqammar7629

15 күн бұрын

Making people do their job quests won't help and I am proof of that :). I wanted the story from the Shadowbringers Role quests, but I don't heal. I took my Scholar (leveled via my SMN) and did all the job quests for Scholar. I did not set the quests to Easy. I am not even a novice as a healer and I know nothing about Scholar and I sailed through all of the quests. AoE heals ftw. This would never work in real content. It is bad gameplay :) It was fun at the time. So no, we'll have to come up with something else if we want to help people to learn their jobs. Try reading tooltips for a start? People who want to learn will learn, those who don't nothing will help and it isn't my job to lecture them.

As someone who started at the start of 6.5 I don’t get how people struggle with expert roulettes etc or even just their rotation. After playing the game for about half a year I don’t understand people not being able to just figure out their rotation just by reading a tool tip

@glaedth

16 күн бұрын

See that's the issue, you assume people read tooltips

@RinTheBard

15 күн бұрын

@@glaedth LMAO FAIR ENOUGH

The fact that standard difficulty is such a big concern of the playerbase when the game is going into its level 100 capstone (a big deal, considering its been like 10 years) is a little bit embarrassing… The leveling process and the old endgames throughout the course of ARR + 4 expansions should have absolutely taught new players how to play their jobs at least at a halfway decent level by the time they reach current content, be it MSQ or the endgame.

@yeetusdeleetus4697

16 күн бұрын

Not in this game. The community at large still considers fully level 90 players who have sunk at least 200+ hours into the game to get to that point as "baby sprouts" or "brand new players" because they effectively are for anything outside of level roulette. God forbid you say anything about it not on youtube, you'll be swarmed with people attempting to find your personal info and dox you and get your account banned while they screech "OMG UR A LIAR YOSHI P IS MY SAVIOR FFXIV IS PERFECT EW WAS SO HARD IT WAS THE END OF AN ERA, SOKEN WROTE THIS SONG WITH CANCER BTW"

I think a lot of this could be handled with class quests. I'm not sure I want to say "finish the quest or else you can't get the ability it teaches you" because then you end up with a lot of folks who didn't do their class quests and just don't have the ability. But a solo duty where your class trainer/iconic job NPC is spelling out things for you and having you do them in turn would be an ideal place for this. It might break with some of the story or lore, since not all jobs align with having a "training session", but I think it could be worked into most of them. Heck, I remember doing a job quest for DRK, and I had the hardest time with it because it kept wanting me to hit things with Soul Plunge - which is the THIRD attack in the standard rotation, but I never stopped to look at the name of that attack because "why would the game make me START with an attack that obviously I should never be starting with??" XD But I get what you're saying with making them part of the MSQ somehow, to MAKE SURE that they're done, since job quests are optional. Maybe we gate something at some point behind the job quest completion, or give it a job-unique cosmetic that everyone would want? I love the idea but when you're talking about training specific action interactions within the job, you're talking 21 job quests that need to get created/updated and implemented, and that's a lot of work when the developers' time is generally better spent elsewhere.

@Mephiidross

16 күн бұрын

I think it's simple, just lock progress into the MSQ behind having to do your job quests. Can even retroactively add that to the ARR/HW quests, and then overhaul them to do these things that were mentioned in the video. Now, the main issue is that it won't do anything to teach people already past these quests, however I do seem to remember them wanting to treat Dawntrail as a possible starting point for new players. As such, there might be a good chance to basically have your job trainer go "Hey, I know you've saved the world and all, mind helping out with some newbies we have and teaching them the basics?" and said newbies being the PCs who start with Dawntrail.

They just need to dramatically upgrade the Hall of the Novice to actually teach players how the game is/expected to be played. Example: Put tanks in training that *THEY WILL FAIL* if they don't use Rampart. I don't mean "Check the quest text box that says to use Rampart." I mean make them fight a bunch of mobs that will overwhelm them if they don't. Give the training actual risk. Then take it a step further every 10 levels or so: provide players with *JOB-SPECIFIC* training courses, the purpose of which is to teach them what their buttons do and how they should expect to use said buttons. I find it very painful that players might need their hand held like this, but as I get older I find more and more that the majority of humanity just *does not* think for themselves or, even worse, never learned HOW to think. (The US education system in particular is REALLY lacking in teaching critical thinking skills)

Theres a balance that needs to be struck though for main story content. I wouldn't mind it being more difficult but it can't exclusionary. They are made as is so everyone of every skill level can complete it and enjoy the story. It's a thin line between pushing people to better learn their classes and making it simply to hard for the lowest tier of players. I think the easier and possibly better answer is to take a page from ESO and create two versions. One that continues as is and is easier for those who either aren't interested or for some form of limitation can't do harder content. Another version that is harder for those wishing to push and challenge themselves. Keep the rewards generally the same though with their being achievements and maybe achievement awards for clearing them all. It's an idea and maybe a bit better balanced than trying to push players into harder content they aren't interested in. As Mr. Happy stated earlier today, those who want the hard content in all aspects of the game are not part of a majority. It's a very vocal minority that lives within a tight echo chamber. We think there are more of us than there actually are because we mostly associate with each other. We are in all the same spaces together. But at least it does appear they are taking the voice into account

I kind of wonder how well dynamic difficulty would work in FFXIV. It's tricky, and I think could end up being messy in a sense, but at the same time, I see some potential. By dynamic difficulty, I mean that the game could be designed in such a way that it adapts to how well the team is performing. Like if your team is doing more damage than is expected in a dungeon against the first boss, later bosses get more HP. If the party is dodging mechanics, it starts throwing more unavoidable damage at the party. If the healing is maintained strongly, the damage taken gets new elements, like adding DOTs to raidwides, or maybe even adding mechanics. Maybe a fight will start producing orbs that the party needs to pop that deal high damage to one person, but if the party didn't do as strongly against the first boss, these things don't appear. I'd worry that a lot of players would see this as a punishment, though. "If our damage is higher, why is the boss getting more HP? Shouldn't the reward for more damage be shorter fights?" That kind of thinking. So I don't know how effective it would be, but it was something that I think could be interesting to think about and discuss.

@rickmel09

16 күн бұрын

they haven't figured out how to make 1000 slot dresser, i think dynamic difficulty is a long way to go

@SoulSin

14 күн бұрын

Fun fact, this already happens with Trusts. When you are DPSing harder, the NPCs do less damage. If you start sleeping, they literally soo the dungeon by themselves. Still, meanwhile I would not mind the game being harder for more skilled players, how do you reward those people? Mind me, bad player don't care for what they are dropping or how much zenny they get, they just wanna finish the dungeon and move on the current quest. You can't make a worthwhile reward if the players objectives are not the same. Why play better? Just play worse and let the dynamic difficulty make everything a cakewalk.

Exactly what you say! I've also been saying this for years now. I'm tired of carrying entire groups of new players. We need these tutorials!

I was afraid to post this because I don't want to be flamed. But I'll give it a go. I do agree that Normal content could push players a bit more with higher damage output and less forgiving mechanics. I'm not against tutorials teaching players the fundamentals like using mitigation and combo actions. At the same time... I don't think everything needs to be tutorialized. Part of the fun for me is discovering what your character can do and figuring out how abilities flow into each other. That's why Recitation is my favorite button in the game. When I got it, I played around with the different combinations. It it looks like there are still other ways for me to use it. The game could have had a whole quest about the right way to use Recitation and it would have been useful and fun and even expand on Scholar as a class. The early ninja quests do this pretty well with the early mudras. Even just a note on skills that gives possible use cases. But I don't mind being left to my own devices.

@raevenent751

16 күн бұрын

"I don't think everything needs to be tutorialized. Part of the fun for me is discovering what your character can do and figuring out how abilities flow into each other" This honestly. I'm all for a game teaching you the basics on how to play, but as you said, it shouldn't be to the point where it holds your hand down to the T "This is how you should play/approach". Part, if not most of the time, it *should* be on the player to figure it out, learn, and as you said, discover it.

@qamarqammar7629

14 күн бұрын

I agree. The entire fun for me is in figuring it out. I don't think the argument here makes any sense: "The game is too easy and too many players are bad." WoW players wore out their game with this kind of reasoning. It never ends well. Once people start expecting competence in random duties, we move next to entitlement - others must perform well - then we waste the developers time designing tutorials or tests, all of which are outdated in two years if not at inception. (Hall of the Novice? Guildhests?). Then the fun dies and we wonder why. I loved those early Ninja quests - here's your mudra - go hit that thing :)! Some of my best fun in the game was with players who didn't have a clue and were falling all over their own feet. We had a good laugh and got it done. If I want perfectly competent MSQ companions I'll go with the robot npcs (Trusts).

I think one of the biggest hits to not having to heal in current dungeons and why ARR dungeons can actually feel harder than expansion ones (Stone Vigil I'm looking at you) is the fact that Tanks (mainly Warrior) have so many ways to self-heal. Like Warrior is ridiculously powerful at self healing that it can and will outheal a healer. For a healer to even need to look at hardcasting a healing spell in a dungeon with a Warrior, Warriors are going to need their HP restoration gutted. Ultimately the best way to make Healers need to heal in dungeons is make it so Tanks only mitigate and have to rely on their healers, rather than being able to continue without them. But I feel that most tank mains probably wouldn't be fond of losing their self-sustains.

@ChannelRaznoff

16 күн бұрын

It's not just tanks. As a reaper in expert roulette, I can get through every fight's unavoidable damage with second wind and blood for blood usage. I've legit had several healers either DC or die very early on in expert dungeons on bosses and not really have any issues staying up mostly above 50% hp.

@Bigalinbklyn83

16 күн бұрын

No

@nefesha3972

16 күн бұрын

Od like tanks to get the healer treatment and separate them. Have 2 be designed for main tank and the other two more utility based. Gut the tank mit and cds abd making it so healers have to heal

I definitely agree that the story pipeline needs to teach abilities and gameplay better. Unfortunately this would require a lot of work to keep content up to date with job changes and reworks. I can see CBU3 seeing the amount of work in that being prohibitive. A rework of the hall of the novice and the implementation of a "Hall of the expert" with reward involved that would incentivize participation may not be a bad idea. I know the game needs role identity reinforcement and changes but the "strike" is a comically bad way to go about this. You're going to protest them not needing you by not showing up? Maybe think about this a bit. The Xeno clearing the dungeon thing was, IMO, not indicative of a problem. It was the one job that could do that in the one situation and it was 4 extremely skilled players doing it. Any other tank wouldn't have worked. Any other type of content wouldn't have worked. Dungeons are purpose built to be completed by the casualest of casuals. I found it very telling that a large number of the posters complaining about the clear couldn't help but mention that they had some sort of personal problem with Xeno and that's telling. I think it's time to bring back hard mode dungeons with a more difficult version of the story content. ie. more damage from enemies and a couple of additional mechanics. Sort of the differences between the normal and harder versions of criterion, just not as painful. Put the "hard" on a roulette and add additional rewards. More tomes, maybe higher drop rates on minions and orchestrions etc.

@thesagem

16 күн бұрын

I'm not a tank main and I've cleared expert roulette dungeons without a healer. It's not hard. The only reason the xeno run of the new dungeon was sloppy at all was because the party didn't know the mechs of the last boss and they still were able to clear it.

Sage's first solo duty, explicitly tells you to put Kardia on tank. Reaper's tells you to use your other skills. I wish they would expand on solo job quests, with the other existing jobs, and definitely should expand on. And Guildhests have been forgotten. We could also gain dungeon variety, if there is dungeon with the tank and healer purposefully separated. Or either the tank or healer's skills being sealed.

Twice Come Ruin is an infinitely better "you failed a mechanic", mechanic than Vuln stacks. With Vuln Stacks, you can basically ignore them in most cases. Depending on your gear and healer, as a dps you can get up to like 4-5 vuln stacks without being 1 shotted by things and tanks can probably get upwards of 8. Twice Come Ruin is a much more visceral feed back loop, you fail two mechanics in a row you die. But then the problem there is the same problem with vuln stacks to an extent. It's not teaching you how to read and execute the mechanic correctly. Failing a mechanic and getting a debuff and/or dying doesn't mean anything if you don't know what you were supposed to do in the 1st place. Since ShB, they've been doing a good job of standardizing mechanic symbols in general content, but they don't really teach players all that well. I've seen people in Seat of Sacrifice who have no idea what a stack marker is. They should make Hall of Novice mandatory. They need to overhaul and update Hall of the Novice for the current state of the game. And they need to add a section in Hall of the Novice to not only teach players about their toolkit, but to teach them about the different mechanics.

You bring up the point that honestly infuriates me the most about this game. *Lack of proper in-game tutorials.* Listen, I can understand if they don't want to tell people things like "this is what you have to do as a bare minimum", however, giving people little to no information and instead leaving them to their old devices causes way more harm then good. I sometimes wonder if SE look what Shigeru Miyamoto did with the first Zelda and tried to replicate it in FFXIV. For a little history lesson. The first Zelda game had a similar problem to XIV. It gave players almost no information on where to go, what items to get, or what enemies gave new powers when defeated. Miyamoto believed that, by minimizing the in-game information, players would need to share info with one another and foster a sense of community. And it worked. Beautifully so. Now, why is this approach not working for SE? Because Zelda is a single player game, and XIV is a team multiplayer game. You're expected to assist one another in content, and what you do (or *don't* do) affects others. So, when max level people are almost as clueless as when they were low level, toxicity and bullying are inevitable. And all is made even worst when the devs themselves insist on fostering such a low-risk gameplay that rarely, almost never asks players to improve. And lastly, a huge consequence of this is an entire role becoming worthless since another role can do its job just as good. So, what would be the solution to this? Adding more failure conditions would be a good start, on top of revising the in-game tutorials to better teach people. The thing is, we may be too far into the current gameplay to make any changes the wouldn't affect everyone, both casual and hardcore players.

I think a large part of the problem is also how IL sync in roulettes completely destroys so many instances between ARR and SB for new players going through MSQ. Not so much their gear, but having 3 other players that quite frankly OP by raw numbers constantly reinforces a false sense what is required of them in their role. Every tankbuster in the game should do MINIMUM 50% full HP, unmitigated.. you literally cannot tell that the tank was under any real threat otherwise, so what is the point of even telegraphing? Let instances take longer, "force" players to do mechanics, increase XP/tomes accordingly.

not the exact same thing, but a newer game that is out, wuthering waves, every time you get a new character they have the option to go into a tutorial where it puts you in specific parts in the kit and combos and tells you what to do and you have to execute it to move forward and at the end you get a small reward. ffxiv could have a similar system where it puts you in specific parts of your kit and makes you press specific skills/abilities to complete it but maybe at the end you get some gil and exp for that class and a materia(or something but just an idea) this could be basic just to show what the job is about at base level or a little longer to show each button and tell us what it is for and incentivize it.

Ffxiv doesn’t force you to learn your Job class but it forces you to work together to complete stuff there’s no I in team or squad there’s also no carry in team or squad.

I've been saying since Bardam's came out, we need more of it scattered throughout the MSQ. I go back there for refershers.

As an Astro I forget use my buttons with how brain dead healing can be

The answer is simple block people from level 100 unless they defeat Maat from FFXI

Anytime you have a game that lets players buy their way into max level or to skip doing main story

I feel like another thing that is important and that is connected to it is teaching players the ability what is their own mistake and what was someone else's mistake. Because without that ability it is impossible for players to tell if the content is hard, or other players made so many mistake that it became hard because of that. Like the following scenario is totally reasonable: someone newer to healing goes into a dungeon. Has an extremely tough time because the tank isn't using any cooldowns. They assume the reason is their own healing ability (even though they are doing a good job for their experience). The will then most likely give the feedback to the dev team "I would love to play healer but it is too difficult for me" Even though I have no idea how to even tackle that to solve that issue

Hi cole, is it true they’re going to add more voices to choose from once dawn trail drops?

I'm a white mage main and agree with a lot of this. Specifically the mechanics in the save the queen content. I loved those duties so much, and the thing I loved about them was how challenging they were. But also, it encouraged cross party cooperation. People would drop like fly's but there was always someone to help pick you up. I would love it if newer content was modeled after the Save the Queen/ Bozja content. I genuinely enjoyed my time between expansions completing that area.

I honestly don't think this is elitist. like world of warcraft even more recently i think it was in there current expansion or maybe the previous introduced an alternate starting zone for complete newbies to actually fundamentally learn how to play the mmo and specifically your job exactly and even had a small dungeon to do as soon as you finished that actually had you do your role and do mechanics. i do think though that that isnt enough though because than those new players are thrown into the deep end of the pool but i digress that is wow not ff14. point is wow has more accessibility in teaching a new player how to even just press buttons right and how to kind of do your role and its forced on them. hall of novice should be mandatory and than later down the road they should have a hall of expert or whatever that actually sits down with you and teaches you how to play your job a little bit better. the only downside is will this stuff be actually good? as many people will say and i will say as well, "you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink." you can actively give these people this kind of thing but that doesn't mean that afterwards they will play the game like that. they will still not press buffs in the right spot they still want do the mudra's in the right order will still do celestial revolution on monk because its easier. its very annoying for most people but you can't necessarily force these players to play the game you want them to play

There was a WHM quest hack in Stromblood that really taught you how to use your OGCD and Hots or you would keep failing the job quest. It taught me how to parse my heals at the correct time. Same with that one Tank role quest that teaches you to use interject or you fail the quest. We need more mechs like that in MSQ dungeons where certain skills/spells must be used to progress the fight or wipe. This would teach people when and how to use their skills/spells. Tank busters should one shot a tank if you have no type of GCD and put it all together in raids/savage/ultimate runs

So I started playing FFXIV at the end of Shadowbringer, around patch 5.3-5.4. I main as a melee DPS, i did all the savage tier since i started to play FFXIV and some ultimates and I wish that the difficulty become higher. I take example with roulettes. I play as BLM in Expert roulette and just here i notice the difference in time for this roulette as DPS. When one roulette takes 17 min with people who already did the dungeon and then you take 11-12 min to do the same dungeon with different people, it baffles me, litteraly. Okay there's the gear difference, but i can't believe that it is the only thing that makes a 5 min difference in a dungeon. I played most jobs to lv90 and when i played healer and you know what a tank is able to do for mitigation, I can't help but notice the difference in healing that needs to be done. And again, you notice the difference in player that have read their tooltip and the people who didn't. So when I call people to read their tooltip, either i'm ignored or sometime I'm flamed for being too elitist. That's the sad reality, I can understand that some people are casual and they don't want to sweat at every corner of a dungeon but I just wish that the game pushed people to learn about what they are doing.

Thank you for bringing up healers not using Esuna. As a healer main this frustrates me to no end. Especially when I've experienced multiple party wipes where a Esuna would've saved us from wipes and time wasted.

Stormblood had some of the best difficulty balance imo

"TOP has been cleared with no healers. FFXIV has a difficulty problem right now where content is too lenient on the playerbase" Oh hell no.

before watching this, my thoughts as someone who came from WoW this year to FFXIV. WoW has multiple difficulty modes for endgame content. Every dungeon has a normal, heroic and mythic difficulty mode which add more mechanics and higher scaling (and give better loot). It also has mythic+ which continues raising the difficulty of the dungeons and adding rotating mechanics weekly to the dungeons to keep them difficult and different. Outside of raids Mythic+ is the main form of endgame content. These difficulty modes make it so there is always a difficulty level that is challenging but not impossible for every player. I think that would be a good inspiration for FFXIV, some scaling difficulty content, Expert+ dungeons if you will.

A good motivation for healers to always improve is the knowledge that one misstep and they have to sit in the boss fight for 30 minutes as the warrior smacks it

@rickmel09

16 күн бұрын

as a warrior main, i am doing my part to make healers want to improve :)

I'm looking forward to Alphinaud healing all my Dawntrail solo duties as I do the MSQ on SCH. Broil go brrrr.

6:40 erm ashkully you can’t use bloodwhetting without hitting the thing

I agree with this so much more than the points made by the healer strike! Players should have to learn their kit! Content should feel intense because everyone’s full kit is required to clear it! 🔥🔥🔥 great video!

God damn, I just finished commenting on your other video making the point that by level 91, people should know how to clear the story content where a healer's role is essential...and immediately within the premise of this one is what I think the answer should be. And it is an argument I've made before. And it is validating to find a lot of what you argue aligns with my own arguments and thoughts & feelings with healers, albeit I don't agree with every detail. but I think that's fine. One thing I used to compliment the game on back in 2.0 was the fact it had a gradual progression of difficulty to help improve the player and throw in "checks" for tanks, healers and DPS. When you look at it, it pushes you to do Guild Leves first, which were like mini dungeon training exercises. Then you have your 3 main basic dungeons, which were very forgiving, because it didn't matter if your healer was slow or your tank missed a mob, it wasn't going to be punishing and it introduces similar mechanics. Then Brayflox IMO ended up being your first kind of tank & healer check in a dungeon. Each of the primals kind of head their own healer, DPS & tank checks. And Praetorium felt like a test to prove you've learned how to play the game and my first run of that did take an hour without cutscenes (I opted to watch them later, back when you could). It feels weird to say now that this is all content you can just clown. But this was a time where Praetorium was cleared by parties with an average of i45 and people were doing end game raids in i70 gear and back when the game had about 200ms latency & most people didn't know mechanics. One thing I have suggested to the forums a couple of times is an improvement on the "Hall of the Novice", maybe a "Hall of the Intermediate" which comes with a "Training Log" that introduces a new concept to your role/job and a good dungeon to practice that concept and a good incentive for clearing them.

If we raise the expected ability of the player while at the same time increasing the difficulty, don't we just end up in the same place? Not saying that it will literally be the exact same, but is such a major expenditure of time, money and effort really worth it for such negligible results?

@yeetusdeleetus4697

16 күн бұрын

No because the issue isn't actually that the game is too easy, its just being misrepresented as such, what people want is **interesting gameplay**. Let our buttons work with our other buttons beyond "+ potency", let our jobs have game-changing unique effects and abilities that make them feel full and fun, give us mechanics that are more fun to solve then "walk out of the orange circle" in normal content. It doesn't matter how hard or easy the game is if you're having too much fun to notice.

My question for you, in which I think then people that suggest multiple ways to learn the player role/class, how would you implement it and how? If people do what they suggest that once you reach certain milestones, every "cap" meaning 50, 60, 70 etc, would you want it then so people understand all the abilities? Let me explain War and Paladin are the two tanks you can use from the get-go and say you want to be an omni tank. Would you for example, once you reach level 50 as a Paladin and decide to learn War, would you then go through the same type of "tutorial" to ensure the player knows how to do the mitigation and abilities since the class plays differently? What about people in statics that do split clears that have alts? Would they too be subjugated to having to do the exact same thing? Would it be possible to then in theory "test out" so to speak for those that do know and learn how to play the class and learn what to do in game? Personally how I feel about this, most of the content in game that would need to use later on in the game, will only be used if you're doing end game savage, extremes or ultimate. Now the question then would be how would you go about making it so that players would have to use more of their abilities. In dungeon, if you have an on point healer and a tank that knows how to use their Mitigation, what then would be the point of an invuln if the OGCD healing that at least for me as a WHM with the lillies, benny and tetragram, if we can wall to wall and I can just toss those out and if again a WAR using their own personal healing then it would be redundant and I will be just a glare mage. The solution then could be 1 of 2 folds, you could either 1) reduce the potency of healing and defensive. While probably the worst of the two, by doing this, players would have to be more force to use abilities like Rampart, reprisal, arms length, feint and addle to help with the mitigation. Or they could 2) increase the damage of the mob in dungeon and lowering the effect so that stats actually matter in game, which would arguably be worst, because I can probably guarantee you that besides end game raiders, no one can tell you why you don't want piety or why you don't want tenacity in your stats and why Crit, DHit and Det would be better alternative. Healers and by extension Tanks can get away without the use of those substance because it deem to be worthless. Sure people look at piety and say cool, more healing Potency but neglect the fact that it also boost MP regent, just as tenacity boost damage dealt, HP restore while lessening the damage taken from mobs. If then that's the case, then square should either get rid of piety and Tenacity all together since it seems rather pointless to have skills like that, given the amount of sustain and oGCD healing that healers have making so that you're using LD on cool down to not go under. Or make those stats mean a lot more by raising the MP cost of healing and make it so that the MP regain tick and recovery is much lower than what it is now. As always Cole, nice video, this would be my suggestion. One could argue that the game does teaches players how to deal with all mechanics during the MSQ, but to what effect that it does since in dungeons it does little to no damage, most players would probably take it once and say oh, then continue on their way.

tbh BM give you more problem with different control mode. Now the one you can use to turn away from the boss gaze quickly, is now make you face the boss while adjusting positional while looking away.

16:08 opportunity missed: “We parse pink on Wednesdays” But also Everything you said is needed. People should be taught mechanics in game. Your example, a ninja shouldn’t be ignorant to its mudras at level 90 and soon 100…

I totally agree with everything you said regarding the steep learning curve. It took months for me to fully understand just the navigating of different menus and setup, learning rotations and being effective when playing my role. Understand roles in battle is like learning on the job with no training, and I main DPS. Just started grinding Warrior, and i was shocked to learn how often Tanks don't mitigate, much less dodge. Weather that's due to ignorance or laziness, it definitely would add stress. I wouldn't even want to attempt a healer for those reasons. Making it harder on top of that?? I understand the strike

You could also use protraction before doing a spreadlo for even more percentage buffing

I quite agree, the game needs to be better at tutorials. I recently made a comment on someone's stream on how the game is really bad at teaching sprouts about their rotations in general, and of course I got the classical angry reply along the lines of "oh my god let them enjoy themselves". Sigh...

most of the things you propose were already done by other games. none of them ever worked WoW tried increasing the difficulty of endgame dungeons in cataclysm... and it went badly then they gated dungeons behind the role-based proving grounds... it also went badly Wildstar built it's game on challenging PVE content... and we all know what happened to it truth is: the main audience for MMOs just isn't interested in "gitting gud" (the RP in the acronym doesn't stand for "raid progression"). they want to collect stuff, make good-looking outfits and hang out with their friends that's why vanilla wow was so popular in a world where other MMOs were extremely punishing and convoluted. and that's why classic wow is so popular when its content and classes are laughably easy compared to the modern game

I can tell you one thing. I dont know the skills by name and probably never will. I have a hard enough time with names as it is irl 😆😆 But as a turbo casual who dual mains WAR and SGE I know exactly what every skill on my bar does, in relation to where I placed it on my bar. Just dont try to quiz me with icons and skill names because Ill have no clue. But I agree with you. Bardam's Mettle is a formative experience of the SB expansion. It should have happened for SHB and EW.

Personally. As someone who has barely even played this game, I would probably say in most instances that it's a lack of failing at the beginning which leads to lack of confidence and a fear of failure. If you are not taught that failure is expected and normal and okay, you never develop a resilence to it or the tools to learn how to do better and that it's better to try and fail then never try at all. It's very easy to not acquire new skills in games if you aren't self motivated and there is no failure.

6:06 Ninja KINDA has that through the job quests.. if you start the job 1-50 and doing dungeons kinda reinforces the muscle memory. I skipped the job in EW because I wanted a melee for faster Alliance queues and even on NG+ I struggled. I'm heartbroken l hearing that Deep Dungeon is a great way to ease into the kit so I'll try that next

I’ve been crying for better learning systems in FF14. My biggest complaint moreso than even basic tutorials is there is little transition from Main Story to other content - and the big divide between casuals and high end really comes from one deciding to google the answers or ram their heads against the wall till they get it, which is just not a sustainable practice. Stop lowering the ceiling, raise the floor and get everyone on the same level. Many players still don’t know what a rotation is and that’s REALLY sad when people also say they want to try out harder content that you know they aren’t prepared for because the game offers 0 support to the learning experience.

I still haven't tried the new extreme trials, always too nervous to run them. I know that sounds stupid because I raid but joining random groups makes me nervous so I end up not running the content.

with how powerful they're making GCD heals, there's no reason there cant be more group damage in dungeons. See damage, press Medica 2/Succor/etc isnt hard and means that damage can happen fairly frequently. Tank damage is a different story, but theres at least some merit in the argument that a good tank shouldnt need a healer or else a bad tank would be unhealable.

All of this could have been done with the job quest. It could teach you how to use the abilities before they give them to you in the main game. I had to learn basic functions of the game outside of the game, which is a strange concept.

I really liked the two strike system of DR! It makes you remember the mechanics and tricks much faster than if you could cheese it! Hopefully they can at something similar to the MSQ or at least the new Eureka/Bozja like content

Counterpoint : I want to play the game without feeling like a nerd or like I'm at work.

Good talk. I agree that the game could teach players how to do their job better. Hall of the Novice really only teaches your role which is nowhere the same thing. I’ve been playing since 2.0 and I would like to be shown demonstratively how to be better at my job. I’m around midcore ability: not the super best or top-tier, but pretty competent and capable. I push the buttons, but I know I could be better/effective.

I still think any really hard content is going to be annoying as heckies for most players (me included) as long as you have to juggle the chain of skills you describe for ultimately, just boosting healing effects. That's what? 3? abilities that each add healing%? That's just cumbersome and painful for binding buttons. This flavor of difficulty is lame imo. Currently it feels like a lot of my healer buttons are relegated to cumbersome combinations and extreme edge cases in gameplay. It's like I have buttons 25 through 35 for *just* 1,5 savages and an ultimate or two. And otherwise I'm just a glarebot with maybe 5 healing spells I regularly use. And yes, part of that is that content difficulty is just not there. No habits for using cooldowns, so they feel alien and tacked on. Sure. But I don't think you can make genuinely fun difficulty (for healers at least) with the way both the healers and the content are designed right now. Can't create engaging problems in the moment if all your solutions are strictly timed and pre-assigned, and the interaction between them is plain as bread (healing %+ damage%- values stacking pretty much) if at all there. Critlo is fun, but fully stacked critlo is just cumbersome and unnecessary in 99% of content. I'm increasingly loathe to hop on my healers and that's been my primary mmo role for over a decade now xD Better content yes, but encounter design is chained to job design, so... first thing first. And maybe more difficulties after all that is more engaging than it currently is.

2 things I wanted in Dawntrail. 1 - a second difficult (or third, a la hc and mythics in wow) for the dungeons we already have, shouldnt be hard to make. 2 - interesting gear with those dungeons. Set bonus, cooler stats and more ways to build our characters.

@yeetusdeleetus4697

16 күн бұрын

As much as it pains me to say this we will *never* get interesting or unique gear in this game. The dev team is literally allergic to creative and fun gameplay or any player choice whatsoever. You will play this class as I DECREE and you will use THESE STATS.

@BargodeProductions

12 күн бұрын

@@yeetusdeleetus4697 yea... I love the game but that's absolutely true. It seems that they are so afraid of failing that they r on "auto mode", doing everything as simple as it can. All other mmos have better stats and gear

I, as a casual, do too think that the difficulty needs to rise in MSQ dungeons. I really would like if there was any reason to learn how to use the whole kit in story and not because there is harder content or just for fun.

For me the main argument for the state of healing in the game is like this, healers don't need tanks, tanks don't need healers, tanks get a damage rotation, healers do not. If we didn't need agro management, which used to be active, and is now a toggle, you'd be seeing a lot more scholar sage only dungeon runs, because their aoe is powerful, and their shields make a tank useless. So the question becomes if neither of us have to work, why do they get a damage kit?

Maybe these fundamentals as teached at the novice hall + other more advanced mechanics should get implemented in a new kind of trial which will then pop regulary in dutyfinder

I love that mechanics boss

I think this might be gatekeeping to prevent players from getting further in the in story until they learn how to use their abilities optimally, also this might surprise you but early days of mmos were about discovery, so if the game tells you, you must use this after this, it kinda take it away from this finding it for themselves. I get it you want the medica II spammers use other spells and abilities and if they wanted to learn how to play their job better or try to look at ways they can heal better they would. I think forcing them to play their class optimally would deter the players who unsub once they do story.

I feel like in a way dungeons need to be easy so that they can easily do solo player duty support for the games longevity maybe harder dungeons would have to be non story related/optional with no duty support

At this point trying to get players to use actual cds is going to be hard. There is an entire group of people that won’t use a dps skill on healer. There needs to be a better way for the earth and sky dummies to give a better dps experience maybe add some mechanics to the timer

from expert to the lower lvl stuff u can get it done by just dps 80-95% of the time as a healer a;though the best time i have as a healer is when i got a bad tank

The MSQ content does need a substantial difficulty bump. It's sad that MSQ ARR dungeons (at least prior to EW butchering them) were significantly harder on healers than much of what comes after. I understand dropping the difficult at the start of an expansion (You know, to ease returning players back into things), but they really take it too far. Plus Duty Support heavily restricts them in ways that they weren't in the past, as they tune it for what the bots can handle, rather than players who have accumulated hundreds of hours of experience.

Your wanting to know why people don't know there stuff I 100% think it's because the main msq content is too easy, I got insanely good my healers and knowing their kits because I would go into dungeons with tanks that are allergic to mitting and in the more rougher dungeons and I'd be forced to use alot more of my stuff to keep up, but this was in the rare gems of dungeons where they were on the pricklier end, or I had friends who would challenge me and intentionally make things harder so I had to keep up with the flow or we team wipe and that ultimately set me up for a better skill Base over all. Making the main game so easy that your not require to challenge yourself or that you can beat a dungeon without actually learning a single mech from said dungeon is kinda bleh

they would have to rework the entire game at this point, theres no way they can teach the player base their tool kit this late in the game unfortunately. it would have to be optional content at this point like "raid ready tutorial" to make it look worth while

I hate Bardam’s Mettle but only because I’ve had to heal too many Dark Knights in there

You'd raze the casuals with that, those ideas were not a net positive for WoW As for the difficulty, I don't know for certain, I can at most assume everything was toned down because there were journos among those invited to the media tour, not only players.

@qamarqammar7629

15 күн бұрын

Definitely not a net positive for WoW. And a reason its community was considered destructive.

I really do want to see as a healer there to be a MUCH larger need to HEAL. But until we address these fundamentals and address this uncomfortable discussion I don't think we can hope for the general content to be more difficult. I LOVED Delubrum Reginae and I think that's a very appropriate level of difficulty for general content and heck I'd liek to see it expanded even beyond that if I'm honest. But we CAN'T seriously ask for that until we address this topic... I'm super uncomfortable discussing this but I think it's a necessary talk.

@StarGazerTom1991

16 күн бұрын

Turning Healers into a more dps style of play, with a heal toolkit, could be better. For example, Sage should play by marking whoever you want to heal, but you have a bunch of attacks that heal your target for a portion. Having one or two more healing effects, shields, aoe heal on damage skill, that would be your heal kit. Which is actually what I thought Sage was going to be. I'm not a healer, I prefer dps or tank. So I obviously misjudged what was to be, but just explaining my idea of how the problem could be fixed. Thinking out loud here, but this one is on the spot. What if White Mage could have a gauge that builds up for dealing damage and for healing aswell; each 100 provides 1 token. A token can be used for bigger heals and even for applying HoTs. And right there, with those two jobs ive mentioned, WHM and SGE have two different playstyles aswell. Ones proactive, ones reactive.

@StarGazerTom1991

16 күн бұрын

Damage dealt by healers doesn't need to be as high as a DPS, it just needs to provide 1) Something for healers to actually do instead of waiting for some pre-arranged damage timer to run out, and 2) To feel like they've done more than just topped out the hp meters.

@lindaa9005

16 күн бұрын

interesting, I liked DR, and that was a degree of difficulty that I liked- but I also enjoyed that i could often had significant contribution due to DPS lost actions. I certainly did some healing, however there was more responsibility on each player to know mechanics. Couldn't save someone there who failed.

@lindaa9005

16 күн бұрын

@@StarGazerTom1991 it also has to be significant enough when solo so that any solo encounter (solo duty, out in the world) isn't a slog. Try doing that as an AST now 😠

@qamarqammar7629

15 күн бұрын

The problem with Delubrum is that it was being cheesed by role actions that weren't part of peoples' normal job kit. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but for something that would teach everyone something more accessible that didn't involve buying items off the MB or farming them first would be a better idea.

to be honest, it doesnt really matter about the changes especially when for MSQ you need to wait 2+ hours for certain trials, if you want difficult then they should reintroduce hard mode dungeons, hard cap job requirements 2/2/4 except the blues normal mode is normal mode duh, want harder go savage extreme etc, too many classes no real balance, either way none wins

RPR's first quest actually forces you to learn the bare bones of the class but then it never does again. Same with NIN where it teaches you how to use like 3 mudras and then stops. I'll watch guides when I plan on playing a job for a long time but it would still be better if the game taught people that. Having to spam heals because the tank wants to pull big and the dps wont aoe doesn't make me feel useful, it feels like time is being wasted.

While I definitely agree that the level of challenge in normal content has been lowered so much that some people seem to take that as encouragement to not bother even learning the basics of whichever job they choose... I'm in the category of players that will still always fat-finger skills, still get slapped by mechanics and still get somewhat overwhelmed by some of the higher-level content. Still, _some_ place for more focused teaching of mechanics would definitely be welcome. A requirement for more active healing would also be welcome but I have to admit I'd be very sad if they did strip ALL self-sustain from tanks.

time to add twisters and exaflares to the msq dungeon where you need to fully mit with all 4 players of you die :D

When I am with random players in random content I expect random levels of skill and thus I am rarely disappointed. Some of my more amusing and fun runs have been with people who were pretty clueless. If I want difficult content it is there for me, but I don't expect MSQ dungeons or roulettes to be that kind of content. I wouldn't mind, depending on what it was, but I don't expect it. The problem of healers having not enough to do is something I hear often. But I don't see what it has to do with other players not knowing their jobs.

Xeno clearing a dungeon without a healer isn't a sign of how "low" the bar is, it's a sign of how busted WAR is

@nefesha3972

16 күн бұрын

I wanna see tank cds gutted and made longer cds. Make it so healers have to heal and use their cds. Right now their is so little damage you dont even need to worry about cds on mit.

@Cmaxon1521

16 күн бұрын

This isn't the whole picture though, I'm definitely not in disagreement with you, but watch the damage output of the bosses and trash packs in DT's first dungeon. It's pretty low. The second boss has a single instance of unavoidable damage. The design of content is absolutely part of the issue as well

@nefesha3972

16 күн бұрын

@@Cmaxon1521 I want damage to go up as well by a looooot. Lowering the CD's while increasing the damage taken I think would be the easiest start so that you dont have cd's just not being used. From there you can make more adjustments. Would make it easier to give tanks more identity down the road in how they mit and recover from damage

@tundaenix3586

15 күн бұрын

I have an idea of boos + tank rework it goes as follows: Rework tank busters: Tank buster will have 3 types: Slash, smash, pierce, magic Let take example we are in raid and the boss will have 4 tanks busters And tanks have 4 main tank busters which will be each tank buster will have the same effect but with additional one of the 4 tanks buster type example: rampart will have magic mitigation, blood spitter will have smash mitigation If done correctly it will mitigate 80% dmg and give effect as follows: Magic : will give team support buff Paladin : defense Warrior: Heal Gunbreaker: regen Dark knight: shield Smash and slash and peirce will give tank specific rotation that have big damage as a reward for done mechanic right Effects will be randomize each time but with very hard moments will give magic effect tank busters Please give me your thoughts

@nefesha3972

15 күн бұрын

@@tundaenix3586 I like the idea of different types but I think it just makes it so its the same as just increasing CD's across the board and spacing them out between jobs. Different types would make things a little to confusing. Though I would love to see tanks get the healer treatment and have it so two do one role and the other two do another. I was thinking like 2 are better suited for main tanking while the other two are better for utility/off tank. Both can do the main tank but they can build off each other.

healng is so dumb in ff14 that im playing wow cata now, imagine healing as a healer, mindblowing stuff.

@TheOneGreat

16 күн бұрын

As a long-time XIV player, yeah... I think I'll try out WoW healing.

@lawless7859

16 күн бұрын

@@TheOneGreat Cata is some of the best healing you're going to find in an mmo.

Fear of failure. I dont like it to play healer or tank, because the roles are to important (and i dont want be the leader as tank), and i dont like the image, that a fight fails, because i did a mistake or didnt noticed something and it comes to a wipe. About the forced thing: I dont like the image of forcing. But, what they could do is improving the job teacher. That the teacher can make small trials, where its showed the effect of the skills better. Or at last, give a text, where he explain, a skill more to you. Like: - fire 2: at my beginning did i refused to use it, because it looked so weak to me. ST attacks looks to be faster, as using aoe. That its more effectiv when you face 3 or more enemies at the same time, was something, that i needed to read first. - scholar: This on skill in the 50er area, that gives your barrier number as extra heal (dont know the name), I refused to use that skill for month or years, because, it looked useless for me. I readed the skill allways in a way, that the extra healing would go to scholar. Something, that i wouldnt need, if im not hurted. That the extra healing was going to the barrier target to was even something, that i first needed to read in a guide (at first, did i not understand, why you would use that skill). Or by the tanks, all the skills that reduce dmg. That it isnt intented to be used at once. But, at the other side, can i think, that this stuff explained isnt something, the devs wanted. It is something, that the Player should understandable by themself or learned by themself.

I only know how to play my one main job ... for all other jobs others have to suffer with me only using the 1-2-3 combo for about 4 days per job until they all are at max level and I can put them aside until the next expansion. Most jobs are just way too complicated to play. x_x If SCH would require me to use the whole kit for a stupid dungeon, I'd never touch it outside those 4 days to level it.

I really don't think we need to have harder dungeon difficulty. Out of every mmo I have ever played, i have never seen a dungeon literally bar you from progressing through the main story of the game if you didn't display some level of arbitrary skill. You raised the issue of players not knowing what half of their buttons do but i would contend that if you able to clear a dungeon, you are doing fine. I believe that you should be able to starfish your way through dungeons and the dungeon taking longer than you think it should it purely a personal opinion. If Square wanted everyone to clear dungeons within 20min, all they need to do is change the dungeon timer. If your dps is too low, you fail and get kicked out. Eventually, people will have to learn. Dungeons have never been the pinnacle of what skill expression looks like in any mmo I've ever played. Secondly, I agree that Extreme and Savage needs to be way more difficult than they currently are. Being able to solo heal should be out of the question, and a complete understanding of your kit and rotation should be the minimum. I do not think these people you refer to that have no idea what a spread critlo barrier is won't be doing this kind of content to begin with, maybe Extreme but certainly not Savage. And then we talk about Ultimates....To me, it sounds like you want people to be able to hop into an Ultimate raid right after they finish leveling. I just don't think that is realistic, and I would argue that would ultimately turn people away from the game. I have always seen the content progression to be designed such that you can take on harder stuff if you choose to. Forcing players to get up to YOUR skill level is completely contradictory to the idea that you can choose what you want to engage with in this game, and you aren't forced to do anything. Imagine if your favorite omni crafter was forced to be a savage/ultimate clearing badass when all they want to do is finish the story so they can start leveling their crafting jobs. I would imagine a lot of them would quit. All in all, I think that this game has far more content in it than just just the hardcore or even softcore raiders. To look at it from just that point of view is denying that people play this game for different reasons. To me, that is very elitist of you.

@jasonhartman6092

16 күн бұрын

And if we want to prevent people from clearing content without healers, they just need to remove or nerf the healing options tanks have. It's crazy that tanks can heal as much as full specd healers. That shouldn't be possible.

This is what job quests should be for. Teaching you how to play your job. Also I don't mind the idea of more intermediate difficulty content in the game. It would be super nice to have something that doesn't require spreadsheets, but is a little more difficult than just dodging AOE puddles. It might also be nice to have the tooltips be more ... explanatory? Like have a gif of it being used. It might be nice to even have like ... the default hotbar setup not suck ass??? I think that'd help a lot.

@rickmel09

16 күн бұрын

the problem with that is they'd have to overhaul the whole job quest whenever they make changes to a job, which is way more effort than its worth if people want to learn, they'll learn. if they don't, they wont. that's just the nature of the beast

@Aogami20

16 күн бұрын

@@rickmel09 They have to overhaul job quests when they change the jobs already. Remember the summoner rework? They had to significantly change the job quests for that. All content has to be completable regardless of what changes, which means going back to re-evaluate old content and make sure it still works.

@rickmel09

15 күн бұрын

@@Aogami20 so they had to change one questline after 4 expansions and you think that's the same as changing several every expansion? if someone wants to learn, they can read their tooltips and hit a dummy for 5 minutes, no need to remake all the job quests - not to mention the 5 million guides they can find all over the internet

@Aogami20

15 күн бұрын

@@rickmel09 they had to change a lot of job quests actually, since they stopped tying specific abilities to job quest completion. Tank stance used to be tied to job quests as well. If you don't like that idea it might be a good idea to put more useful instructions into the hall of the novice, like introductory rotations or advice on using mitigation etc. I prefer to have those kinds of resources INSIDE the game rather than relying on third party tutorials.

@rickmel09

15 күн бұрын

@@Aogami20 the introductory rotation tutorial is already in the game, it's called "tooltips" the buttons even light up when you're supposed to press them

I'm of the opinion that the difficulty ramping is ok/fine. Talk of Dawntrail expert dungeons being hard is the perfect image of difficulty to me. The game will teach that you that if you die, you did something wrong. the pathway from dungeons to trials, to extremes, to savage, to ultimate works. Asking a causal player to understand a tea spreadsheet is like asking a recorder player to understand a symphony music sheet, of course they don't understand. Why would they. Hard dungeons will give the players a bridge between trials to extreme.

I'm gonna be honest any discussion about 14 needing to teach players how to play is going to hit a brick wall when the reality is that some people just vehemently do not want to learn. There are a lot of people that just straight up don't read tooltips or do and then go "I don't need that it doesn't do damage" and then never press a feint or addle or a personal mit. I've seen tanks with some truly diabolical mitigation styles and Ive had sages spam Diagnosis on me at full health instead of hitting a single damage spell in an expert roulette. How do we get those people to learn and to want to learn isn't something I think is really talked about. Also I think tooltips could be better. I do EXs for mounts with some FC members and two of them are healers but EX in EW is really the first time they're doing hard content in the game so having to explain things like Fey Illumination only working on spells and then clearing the difference between spells and abilities isn't something I feel, as a player, I should have to do. Include the class relevant buttons that are affected on a tooltip for things like that. I also think that hall of the novice isn't bad per se but it can use an update and I wont disagree on that at all. I'd say for a job to level 50 give them an instance based on role that they have to go through the training grounds. For tanks make more enemies spawn as the instance goes on to get them acclimated to having the confidence to w2w, for healers make them have to upkeep the tank while doing dps or the instance runs out and you fail, for dps make just constantly give them dps checks (some for aoe, some for single target) and make them at least learn how to use feint/addle to help mit damage I also don't think its elitist. I think asking for a way for at worst the 1 person to learn in the game without 3 to 7 strangers yelling at them is good for everyone. 14 is a cooperative game; people have lives that are tough and they want to relax and not be in a dungeon for 90 minutes because people don't know what they're doing and don't know how to play on the role they queued as because that's just objectively more unfair than being expect to learn how to play a game with real people

Most people will not connect cause to effect if there is ANY lagtime at all. Most people will not Git Gud unless they are forced. You have to be as subtle as a brick to the face. You have to punish, severely, _at the point of violation_ or they will not get it. You also have to make it required, and not allow them to avoid it; they have to Git Gud to pass- overpowering it (via overgearing or overleveling), skipping (by not making it required), or getting carried can't be allowed. If that filters people out, so be it; a higher quality player base of lower number is always superior to a massive one that can't walk and chew gum at the same time- let them pose in Limsa and ERP for gil. The other thing that _has_ to happen to make it stick is that the game itself calls you out for screwing up. It names and shames, loudly and proudly, so you can't hide that you fucked up- and, in group content, are the party responsible for getting others killed or causing a wipe. No more Get Along Gang bullshit; if you don't perform to spec, you get shit on until you come correct. No more healers not Rescuing or using Esuna. No more tanks running out of LOS of heals. No more shit DPS not using their utility or doing rotations wrong. Name and shame to affix the blame and then folks will move to improve their game. (Or quit, which is also acceptable.)

@KujoTenshi

16 күн бұрын

true, but in the mmo space if they are forced they would sooner leave then improve

@MrBCWalker01

16 күн бұрын

@@KujoTenshi Acceptable. Maybe preferable.

@rickmel09

16 күн бұрын

wildstar did exactly that... and there are many reasons why you're not actively playing it :)

@rickmel09

16 күн бұрын

@@MrBCWalker01 tell that to wildstar players

@MrBCWalker01

16 күн бұрын

@@rickmel09 They have private servers.

The game is currently WAY TO EASY ... we need "harder" content while leveling ... not only savage... something, between savage and all other content :D

I don't think 80% is the wrong value.

People told me I was an asshole for suggesting difficulty increases for nm content. "You can't make story dungeons and trials harder!" Me: "Why not?" At this point, assuming no boost, you must have put like 400+ hours into the game. It's time to sink or swim. Perhaps getting hard stuck on a story dungeon will actually make some of these folks read their kits and make use of them, or even, twelve forefend, visit a striking dummy for a bit... I, too, am so tired of seeing zero mit tanks, dps who only single target in expert pack pulls, it's ridiculous by the time you've reached level cap. And if you did boost, that's on you. No one else is under any obligation to carry you when you didn't at least even bother reading your tool tips or hitting a dummy for a couple of minutes.

@raevenent751

16 күн бұрын

"dps who only single target in expert pack pulls" Story of the expert roulette I was in last night. And to boot it was a single pulling tank. I was so close to leaving after the first pack but stubborn me stayed with it.

@rickmel09

16 күн бұрын

you can always play with premade groups, if you really don't want to play with those kinds of players

dawntrail hype!

it is difficult if you have to remember 1000 different mechanics and if you made a mistake you get one tapped lmao, that's it and i didn't need 18 minutes to explain this

But see here is the milllion dollar problem it has been made damn near impossible to give people feedback on how to get better i am not excusing the people who get toxic while doing it but when players are afraid to help each other in fear of getting banned it doesnt help the community come together and help each other get better either so if we arent going to fix that mindset then i agree we need to have a system in the game that should teach people how to play the game properly

The problem is FFXIV is just to easy. You have to many bad players playing, so this is what you're going to get.

Make players complete hall of novice on thier job before being able to launch into a dungeon on that job type

@thebrave9971

16 күн бұрын

That wouldn't... Work too well with current hall of Novice, as that doesn't even teach the correct thing sometimes. They would need to overhaul the hall first before making it mandatory.

Too many people complained about healing through harrowing hell for me to think they're going to add more intense healing I do think the game does a terrible job of teaching players to play competently, and the playerbase at large is terrible at enabling poor play. I agree we dont need to make everyone be sweaty parselords, but players who dont do anything beyond the minimal 1-2-3 should be called out and made to improve or kicked

I'd love to see healers using lb3 more. Tanks get their lb3 during pivotal raid moments. Dps always get theirs. I don't remember the last time I needed to lb3 as a healer because everything is so brain dead easy. Hell, a mechanic could attach an AoE on *every* party member *except* one healer, forcing them to spread out. They all die, but the lb immediately caps. It's up to the healer to lb3 to save the party. Similar to moments where the tank must save the raid from damage. Healers have gotten the short end of the stick for way too long. Increase damage, less oGCD, more GCD healing, variety of mechanics that target not just the tank. I want to feel like a healer when I enter a dungeon. Not a glorified dps. It's pathetic as it stands, now. I get there's skill floor and ceiling for healing. But let's not pander to the lowest common denominator. Get healers to use their kit through more rigorous dungeons. I'm sick of this bullshit.

Make boss autos random targets. Problem solved.