Always play what you want to play above all else, but if you are TRULY pushing for numbers pinches well... explore these options.

@Nimoot

Жыл бұрын

And if you aren't violating ToS by using a 3rd Party Program ... you wouldn't be able to Tell what your damage is so, a tad moot?

I apparently just naturally gravitate toward the jobs that are the weakest in the meta. I started with Ninja and it dropped off hard. I switched to Machinist in Shadowbringers and still main that job and now it's struggling beyond belief. My highest level tank job is the Paladin... I just recently started heavily investing my time into Sage and now I'm being told it's among the weakest of the healing jobs out there. I can not seem to settle into a job that really performs. SO I just have to say "screw it" and play what I enjoy, numbers be damned.

@Leftside08

Жыл бұрын

Are you clearing savage tiers in weeks 1 and 2? Bc if not this tier list means nothing.

@wafutafu

Жыл бұрын

Let us know what job you using in the next exp ahead of time

@elvangulley3210

Жыл бұрын

At least you aren't a rpr main it was in a good spot until selfish sam players cried it was out shining sam now its the worst melee didn't even get past a month before it got jumped

@kuchiku-kanzo759

Жыл бұрын

I remember when drk was low tier tank. So I played it and instantly fell in love with it

@IRedpunk

Жыл бұрын

@@elvangulley3210 in a way it makes sense, rpr has great mobility, a personal shield, raid-wide buff, damage buff with debuff on target and better armor. The problem is that the devs don’t balance without either being heavy handed with nerfs or super small buffs. So we end up like this.

Whats your experience on sage in door boss and p8-2? and how does it compare to sch? You seem to be very confident on sage, but our p8-2 clear in week one came from changing our 99 parsing sage to scholar and we one shot it.

I am Machinist's complete lack of surprise 😐

Is 7PS considered a DPS check? We got it down to 1% and that was using healer LB every time after we struggled to adapt to war harvest. I am hoping to clear it today but if we can’t do it today the stat bump from next week should take care of it.

My uptime always falls off massively in these savage fights as a healer and idk how to keep it sustained through doing my job and following the phases, I feel like I’m doing fine but around the halfway point in most of the fights is where I just fall off between all the moving and mitigation, end up with like 1.3K-1.9K :/ any advice? (SCH)

@charnor2727

Жыл бұрын

Ruin 2 is an instant cast spell you can use while having to move a lot. May not do as much as broil, but damage is damage

The DPS number you pointed is rDPS which is actually your nDPS (for tanks). You also need to look at the aDPS, GNB can sync their burst with raidbuffs while PLD cannot. It brings a huge difference to total rDPS because being able to sync your burst with raidbuffs bring other players rDPS higher as well. PLD sucks, I main it though (p8s p1 now). You need to be perfect at every play to even be able to touch other tanks lower DPS.

@Kalletenz

Жыл бұрын

somehow every person i've seen so far who says "tank balancing is fine" looked at rDps difference and on top of that does not main a tank

Been a dancer main since ShB, I love it so much and it just flows so nicely

I remember when the first tier of pandaemonium came out, P2S only had a “dps check” for the first 2 weeks. Statics didn’t see enrage after that. And party finder didn’t see enrage anymore after week 5 or 6. I understand frustration about a “difficult” damage check in p8s part one. But the bosses are meant to get progressively harder. The meta doesn’t matter for anybody except week 1 clear groups. After 6-7 weeks of gear a blue parse ends up being higher than a week 1 orange.

@icholi88

Жыл бұрын

Gear negates damage checks... correct. This is only a problem for the first few weeks before people have the ilvl to not care about comp as much, but this environment also magnifies class imbalance to an unhealthy extent because... it needs to. People on the tippy top make decisions that allow them to be there and they will use any advantage they can take to remain there. The problem is causal players thinking they need to conform to content they will never attempt anyway (week 1/min ilvl ).

@talancorwell

Жыл бұрын

I think the biggest issue is how poor the job balancing is this patch, combined with the exceptionally tight damage check. Given this game's reputation that "every job is viable in all content", having a damage check where some jobs have such an advantage over others is a big problem

@icholi88

Жыл бұрын

@@talancorwell Do we know if its impossible to clear with specific comps yet? If not, its technically still viable but just hard as hell.

@ryanelliott6706

Жыл бұрын

@@talancorwell they only “have a big advantage” for 2 weeks regarding 1% of players who reach p8s right after patch. So it doesn’t matter for most players. And for nearly all players it never actually makes a difference. I understand how it does still “matter” that there is a discrepancy between RDM and BLM or WAR and GNB for a small amount of players week one. But making a big fuss over it is pointless. Especially for an mmo with 20 classes as opposed to 7 or 8, I would say the balance is near perfect. All devs hate the concept of a meta that makes a difference and FF14 only has one for 2 weeks every patch.

@Alen725

Жыл бұрын

Still doesnt change a fact that game is unbalanced. Also that silly talk about statics and PF groups... like whats the difference? Statics doesnt play better for granted. And even if, it doesnt matter too.

I mained Dancer when it was garbage in Asphodelos. I main Dancer now that it’s S tier in Abyssos and I will 100% continue to main Dancer when it’s garbage again in Paradiso. That’s what I do.

@gregoryhj5225

Жыл бұрын

Garbage in asphodelos..?

@dedexter88

Жыл бұрын

@@gregoryhj5225 BRD was stronger specially in firsts weeks

Well, I've been coming back from a break, and I've personally been finding it very difficult to get my bearings again. I previously mained a Dark Knight (Monk way back in ARR), and when Endwalker hit, switched to Paladin and Reaper. Since I don't have folks I know to play with, I never feel comfortable tanking for groups I don't know, and for some reason I'm having a hard time getting used to the Reaper again. I guess my question would be, what would the EASIEST class be to play? Something when I can focus more on actually avoiding damage, learning boss patterns and mechanics? Even if I'm only doing like 80% of the damage I "should" be doing, I feel like I just need a job with "training wheels", so I can just get used to the game again?

@charnor2727

Жыл бұрын

For casters, there is summoner which has many instant cast spells. For physical ranged dps, machinist and dancer both have easier rotations, with dancer having a dash

what did you mean with the " *huge* dps for caster dps" ?

Regarding MCH: I am a MCH main. I feel like I'm pretty good at it. Not amazing; but good. Anyways, of course I would love a DPS boost for MCH. That said, one part of MCH that is consistently overlooked by people who don't have a lot of experience with the job is it's lack of cognitive requirements. That doesn't mean MCH = UNGA BUNGA. What that means is that MCH does not have to worry about lining up raid buffs as they have none, they just need to worry about making sure their burst windows fall into the raid buffs. MCH doesn't have to worry about timing utility because they basically have none(tactician is cool though). MCH doesn't need to rely on RNG. MCH can continue to deal consistent damage regardless of the mechanic as long as the boss remains targetable. All of this means that MCH can focus more on the mechanics and their rotation, having an easier time becoming consistent in a fight. MCH is a great job for doing callouts for this reason. As such, In my static, I find I am usually the person making callouts. As you say, damage downs, deaths, and inconsistencies hurt raid DPS more than a "sub-optimal" party comp. So, a job which allows you to focus on being consistent, not dying, and being able to help the party with callouts is actually a pretty good job in my opinion.

@TheHarpieking

Жыл бұрын

As a fellow MCH main, I can agree. And the Tactician buff is perfectly named for what we are, the Tactician of the group. Analyze the field and keep everyone informed.

They should give machinist some fast cast skills like in pvp and up the damage significantly due to less mobility. Adding utility to it while keeping it as the higher damage ranged dps will just screw the other range dps up.

@milanmalfait9914

Жыл бұрын

This.

Conclusion; These tier lists are absolutely irrelevant if you're not trying to world first or trying to clear it on 1st/2nd week of its release. I am so glad that FF is never going to have a built-in parser.

My Co-Tank is a Paladin and they were on the struggle bus for P7S. Had a really hard time with the bleeds and wind burn busters/raidwides.

I do enjoy watching these type of videos even if I will.never swap out of drk and sge no matter the content lol

@HaydoisHollow

Жыл бұрын

Same w me and Bard lmao. Switch to Dancer? Yeah no thanks

@sirkyrxon936

Жыл бұрын

By the looks of it, Gun and War are still basically the same in dps (minus the average player dps). But even if warrior's dps got nerfed closer to paladin, it's not enough to make me quit the class lmao I dont trust my healers in dungeons (in any mmo), and their defensive mitigation can still block off a chunk of a tank buster in raids. Its perfect for me Altho I think i'll be forced to switch out of Dragoon and Ast..... they keep touching the classes and reworking them/dumbing them down..... They've slowly become not fun to play anymore

Unless you do week 1 clears the roles don't matter to much. Ill stay warrior and unga bunga because i can play that blind, while on gnb i sometimes mess up my 2min window during tankbusters (that square enix put there in p5/p6/p7 so far)

Idk if I'm being unlucky but my party survivability drop so much if I met SGE and just rarely have clear, we often die to raidwide etc, every dozens PT mybe only 1 that clear with SGE, then again maybe I'm just unlucky with OF

Island sanctuary feels a good fit

What about bard idk feels just like caster dps situation that dancer is just so much better than the other 2

I always subscribe to the idea that you will play better on something you enjoy rather than what is "Meta" Someone who doesn't like the turret mode playstyle of BLK is gonna hate every moment of it and perform worse, even the best players in the world have their picks

To everyone saying it doesn't matter or don't really care that much just know in SHB the dmg different from the tanks was around 1-3%, PLD/GNB at the top and war/drk slightly behind.Compared that to endwalker its around 10% gnb/drk at the top and war/pld way bellow. Hopefully next patch tanks dps should be around the same like it used too.

You are right, no one talks about the caster discrepancy and it pisses me off. I main RDM and want to switch right now despite loving this job since HW. It feels extremely bad to have lower dps than a range dps when you have to make so much more effort with planning your casts and melee combo to fit movements. It is SO UNREWARDING to put so much effort and not be at the spot you deserve. Not to mention all the dps loss from having to rez at times to keep going. BLM should be up with melee. RDM should be above range dps but bellow Mach. Summoner should be bellow RDM because of the higher mobility. SE needs to reward players who play high risk/high management/more complex jobs and mobility should be a big factor. Utility should always be considered obviously, but less mobility = more chance to fuck up, more tight rotation, more planning. Time to hang that RDM coat and wear black.

as a gnb main, i love that heart of stone is only a 25 second cooldown so i can always double it up with a better cooldown for heavy tankbusters plus aurora has two charges now as well, so i can always throw on my own regen after heavy hits as well to alleviate the work the healers have to do its great

@lotharschramm5000

Жыл бұрын

Okay?

@qwerty-dm8gr

Жыл бұрын

You're probably a grey parser lmao

@apathy2454

Жыл бұрын

@@lotharschramm5000 lmaooooooooooo

You also have to be aware about what kind of crafted gear jobs get each tier. This tier is pretty bad for casters outside of black mage, and it’s pretty bad for warrior. We are already starting to see the numbers even out to more stable amounts as people get their bis gear.

Damn so smn is weak ? That’s crazy I was gonna main reaper this patch then swapped and spent tombs on smn :(

I love Black Mage...I do good DPS but my death rate is unreal...

Thank you for stating at the start that the meta matters mostly for people pushing to clear in the first few weeks. Once gear is out there, the "weak" jobs will start to easily be built up to not need to have 100% uptime to still fall behind the meta jobs. Sure it will still be easier, but thankfully the dev team has worked hard to make sure no class is ever total trash, don't bother using at all.

thank you! as a SMN main it breaks my brain when people praise SMN as meta out of magical DPS, you are first person who ive seen actually say the clear obvious BLM runs laps on SMN and RDM

As someone who plays summoner regularly, I would lose dps by going blm, due to not knowing the class as well

I main BLM. And honestly, when I see us below melee, I get excited for the buffs coming xD good Ole daddy yoshi, king of black mages.

@UndercoverCracker

Жыл бұрын

I want to love BLM but I end up getting bored with the rotation....not to mention it's annoying to have to stand still so much. 😆

I totally agree with you, playing what you enjoy is best. You do no damage if you didn't have fun and unsubbed after all. With that said, did you get distracted and forget to make a tier list? ;)

I get saying mch has no utility, but considering it has less to focus on for abilities, it shouldn't have any issues with mobility. I feel like that statement simply stems from the fact that is doesn't have a dash/gap-closer. Lots of jobs don't have this. Scholar, astrologian, white mage, and I'm gonna throw summoner in here as well since it doesn't have a choice on when to use it's gap closer and originally did not have one to begin with. All do not have gap closers, so requiring that in order for a class to "have mobility" is just dumb.

except you keep looking at p8sH2 and rdps, look at adps and other fights especially H1

The problem isn't that this will force a meta for world first races. The problem is that it is indicative of a slacking control of overall class balance. This is the most out of whack classes have been since Heavensward. Whether or not that affects the majority of players is irrelevant. The skill floors have been raised enough to compensate the low end to be viable, while the skill ceiling on some jobs doesn't reflect their output. The fact that week one parses between DRK/GNB vs PLD/WAR is nearly 8-10% in most cases is alarming. The fact that MCH is as badly balanced as it is should be concerning.

@CWFDSmokeEater

Жыл бұрын

He's a casual, who woulda thought

And all of it doesn't matter anymore, because very soon ppl are geared enough to meet the dps check anyway. Although a bit of love for MCH would be appreciated, lol

Paladin change idea: Let goring blade proc sword oath, and slightly buff its potency

@234bokoy

Жыл бұрын

Lowering cooldown of requiescat seems nice

I dont agree that you shouldn't care about meta unless you go week 1 clear. It's even worse, if youre not a top world player, you might want to check your class more. Not only you do less dmg because you play bad, youll have a handicap even with the class balance, and dmg loss will add up and youll get demoralised. To put is simpler, let's assume not going meta for week 1 clear will push you to week 2 clear means just as much for a less good player that ususaly go for week 7-8 clear will clear 8+ (well for 8+ 6.2.5 will drop with balances as it usually does). So if you are a person that clears before x.5 patch, youll get pushed to after it. It will affect anyone at any time, just different.

I totally agree with this. The only thing that I still don't agree with is punishing casters in damage. Sure at least SMN gets great utility and movements, so makes sense. But why is BLM putting out lower DPS than melee who can freely move and provide mitigation at will? Mind boggling.

@elvangulley3210

Жыл бұрын

Jobs shouldn't be punished at all

@angelhehe19

Жыл бұрын

Melees this tier just has perma uptime

@lotharschramm5000

Жыл бұрын

BLM has more than enough tools to not be hindered by casting.

@24hr-Gaming

Жыл бұрын

@@lotharschramm5000 Idk try keeping ll uptime in p7s. Some spots you just have to give it up or hope you get lucky with the tethers. And purgation is annoying. Meanwhile ninja hits trick attack and can keep going.

@UndercoverCracker

Жыл бұрын

@@lotharschramm5000 disagree...still get stuck casting....

Almost my favourite jops going sink 😅 paladin kinda great at holding the line but not dps pure defence whm kinda good at heal only samurai my favourite dps still holding the dps line and gunner anther story Thx for info and have a good day 🍻

@Lunar_Yojimbo

Жыл бұрын

Also you can say dragoon a different story to me personally I grow up loving lance in old game call DFO before ff11 😅 used to love Demonic Lance 👍

Makes a lot of sense that p7s has such a tight dps check now! I didn’t know how much of a difference certain ranged/caster dps had. (Specifically for week 1-2)

@RathVantas

Жыл бұрын

7 isn't particularly tight though, it's mainly 8 that was so brutal

Been saying for AGES that Machinist NEEDS a massive buff, they have NOTHING but their DPS, they are the ranged Samurai and Black Mage for god sake.

As a RDM player that was just about to jump back into the game, I have to say that this is... a bit upsetting. RDM was the first job I really enjoyed in this game, so seeing it fall so far behind the other jobs is a bit painful.

@SniperYanda

Жыл бұрын

Keep in mind, any statistics they show with RDM's damage isn't counting the extra damage they're responsible for from quicker raises, and they have magick barrier for more mitigation/healing too.

Fundamental problem: Why do I care about mit or sustain or HPS if every encounter is designed around any tank being able to heal or survive through the specifical mechanics they need to? Dmg is the only thing that separates classes in a meaningful way and specifically rdps because that is the actual contribution to the raid's overall performance. Some classes are based around design philosophies that don't directly benefit them in this specific kind of content (ala MCH) but could theoretically make them excel in others (like palace or heavens). TLDR throughput and contribution that directly affects the dps of both you and you're peers are the only challenge in content designed around meeting those checks.

@Leftside08

Жыл бұрын

Good point. It’s a rock and hard place design wise. Bc you need tanks and healers to collaborate - but you can’t make tanks reliant on surviving via the healer bc then they begin to lack any agency and are at the mercy of healer performance. The bleed busters were a nice touch just bc it makes it all a bit more collaborative between main tank and off tank and healers. While you can yolo through one- the next one with cooldowns fucked is going to be painful. All that said, I think healers should have more interesting dps rotations or more interesting offensive buffs. Astro is fun for that reason. You have a meaningful and engaging buff system with cards to do outside of healing windows.

This whole video is this guy just saying “well actually”

There is a reason they don’t add dps checkers in the game. This would ruin the game. I get peoples desires to improve, but who want to have some kind of “key metric” looming over your head in a world that is supposed to offer respite from the real world.

the one with more oGCD ( DRK / GNB ) to weave will have much more DPS than GCD Jobs ( PLD / WAR ). DRK can do 22 + 6 living soul attack action with only 8 GCD ( 20s ), GNB do 20 attack action in 9 GCD ( 22,5s ). While Warrior need 15 ( 37,5s ) GCD to complete WAR rotation, and sadly PLD need a whole 20 GCD ( 50s ) to complete PLD rotation. The value of 1 GCD are way to different, they need rebalance this with potency or just rework the job entirely. right now the more oGCD > GCD jobs

@Leftside08

Жыл бұрын

Then how do you explain monk samurai vs. dragoon and ninja

this game is too personal for me to drop my mains in a role. only reason i ever considered dropping monk was because i was dog shit grey at it before the endwalker rework. now im decent . i didn't get pyros knuckles to drop this job based on "meta"

I don't like complaining but I can barely see the numbers and graphs and that's with the screen zoomed in. But I do enjoy the use of graphs.

"Unless you are going for a week one savage clear" >Uploaded 9/7/22 A bit late for that lol

RPR needs help also in savage.

I play my altime Favorit: Monk.

@mlemlemmlemmlem

Жыл бұрын

Me too, punch punch

Pld has more healing, but its not as on demand as War is, and you use the Pld heals it all the time where as you don't use War healing all the time since you save it for busters and times of more need. so War still has the better as it can be used on demand for higher potency. But I do feel bad for Mch its been is a really bad spot for almost a year iirc, seems stupid they wont change it and just keep changing other jobs. surely it would be a top priority

Playing Warrior/Machinist in a raid is like having someone in your FFXI Group not using Windower lol.

this only matters for week 1

RDM and SUM can deal as much as a BLM IF they remove rez from RDM and SUM as well. OR give BLM a rez, which they wont.

@Its_an_Eze

Жыл бұрын

Imagine asking a black mage to rez lol they'll put ley lines on ya dead body 🤣

As much as I would love to play Bard more I just cant shake the feeling of need more damage output compared to DNC. Devs need to buff bloodletter. Who dafuq wants to spam a damage equivalent to a tank range attack?

Huh im suprised no comments on rpr

One thing people seem to forget too is how easy it is to achieve a higher % of your maximum possible damage. Warrior simply has less buttons to press, it makes mitigating around your burst windows easier, it's easier to not overcap resources and line your big abilities under buffs and loses less when you don't. These are great attributes to have when you're progging new fights and your brain is focused on learning new mechanics or calling things out for your group. Very small fraction of the playerbase is 99 parse on all jobs types of players so you need some jobs like warrior (or even SGE compared to SCH) to fill those roles in raid groups.

@Leftside08

Жыл бұрын

That’s actually precisely the issue everyone is talking about here though. It’s that a subpar gnb performance out performs a warrior playing at 90-99%. Like that’s entirely the point here. Not just for tanks. For the casters / phys range and even rpr when compared with monk. It’s that you have people on the weaker job doing 85-99% correct rotations getting out damaged by people doing things 50-75% correct.

As a MCH main yeah, we do need help. One thing I love about FFXIV over WoW is playing everything on one character, and if you don't like the play style just go to another class/job without needing 20+ alts. It used to be that you could just play what felt good to you. I love MCH and its mobility and range, able to pew pew on the move in great. But outside its big burst it lacks for filler. But I personally don't want to sit there on a job that I don't enjoy playing or don't want to be locked into getting drops or gear for but would be forced to if people demand it of me due to a numbers game. I don't like that at all. I know the devs try and make all the class's as balanced and even as they can, but it comes down to play style and how many people actually play those jobs, and to me that feels like is these based on real numbers, or is some low due to not enough players going in due to the misconception of the numbers being low? I know at least on our world I don't see many MCH's at all running around, or even on roulettes when I DRK thats my 2nd main and even mount runs and the like... so really is it not enough people are playing the job that makes the numbers seem so low or is it people not playing because they see numbers are low? Is it a catch 22 with one taking down the other? That's what bothers me with charts like this... but I do agree MCH needs something more once they exhaust their big burst, some of the cooldowns just feel a bit too long before you can toss in anything more.

I wouldn’t say 2 months, I’d think most competent mid-core statics should be seeing P8 by the 2nd or 3rd week.

@Leftside08

Жыл бұрын

If we are talking mid core as 6-10 hours a week, you’d definitely clear p5 to p7 at the rate of 1 week/fight unless you’re blind progging. So agreed

@dragonflame4990

Жыл бұрын

@@Leftside08 I think 12 slides into mid core as well :p

People will be like 12,000 short of a car and asking where the best "need a penny, take a penny" trays are

Always been a dragoon so im probably gonna stay a dragoon

In the context of week 1 the issue of gnb vs. warrior/paladin was 100% valid bc it helped ensure kill consistency when you had to reclear part 1 on p8s. Otherwise you ran the risk of not meeting the dps check and wasting a ton of time just to get back to p8spt2. While the dancer swap is readily doable by most any physical range player, not all casters can swap on the fly to blm- especially for week 1 prog. It adds an extra layer of difficulty. Some magic dps mains don’t even touch blm too. So In the context of week 1 the warrior to gnb vs. rdm/sum to blm is a smaller barrier to entry in terms of adjusting to a new job. Not to mention it’s very possible to be playing 90% optimally on summoner within a few pulls. Which gets you closer to blm - not necessarily higher- at a more suboptimal percentage. (I might need to fact check this). Outside of week 1 and week 2 for less skilled groups. Agreed. Although I think for a mid core doing 9-12 hours a week it’s reasonable to clear a fight per week up to p8s if you’re on top of your game and not blind progging. As for the healer dps on week 1… I can’t really comment. I don’t think the damage difference there was worth swapping vs. playing the healer with the better healing kit for the fight itself. That said, scholar being as strong as it is + damage … it wasn’t unreasonable to see people calling for people to play it instead. Melee had the least discrepancy between highest and lowest. Although since melee bring the most dps there was still pressure to swap if you were a maiming set main to ninja/Sam/monk unless you specifically were running samurai / dragoon. I’m the first 1-2 weeks.

Whatever ppl say about Red Mage... they always need a Rez Mage. I show how good I am fighting and reading amd them they can shut up about their parce cuz I rez them for being greedy.

@johnway8819

Жыл бұрын

Red mage has the same damage as Summoner atm... like 20 dps lower or so lol... huge overreaction of people thinking the job is gimped.

fast forward today how the community's perspective on WAR and MCH changed a lot RWF of TOP MCH was one of the parties and now they do a lot of dmg that can outdps all but SAM from a melee standpoint. WAR entirely leave PLD behind and is now near as good as GNB and 11/12 with DRK, the difference is barely visible.

comparing jobs only by their role is kinda silly . as role subtype is clearly a thing . Summoner should not be close to black mage neither should red mage be . Black mage is a pure carry and should be around the top dps , not just above dancer lmao. job difficulty should be rewarded and so taken into account with the balancing . Taking that into account MCH should be at the Summonner level damage wise , and imho red mage should be the last one as it's a job that bring so much utility that giving it more damage would simply make the job mandatory amongs the non optimal raid groups . When i see that as a black mage you have to be 4 SD above the mean to be very slightly more efficient that a reaper . something is really wrong here . Considering the difficulty curve when you play BLM at the highest level .

Cole, I am going to be honest, class balance *is* fucked right now.... especially for the top 0.01% of players who were trying for world first, where the ~5% DPS difference between the highest DPS classes and lowest DPS classes mattered an absolute ton to get past the DPS checks in P8S. People *did* have to swap off of Sage, Warrior, Reaper, Machinist, and Red Mage to meet that DPS check. Claiming that it is a 'player issue' and not an issue with class balance is just disingenuous. However, this does really only apply to the most absolute cutting edge of progression content and the community is blowing it out of proportion. It doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist, this is probably the worst class balance has ever been when it has come to progression raiding, and pretending otherwise is just silly.

@shizachan8421

Жыл бұрын

I think the problem goes actually faster than just cutting edge world first and trickles down, as in consequence to the cutting edge raiders struggling week 1 with certain comps, it will long term also affect weaker progression groups.

@marcodossantos5366

Жыл бұрын

while it is important and it matters, people need to be carefull how things are presented and the conclusions they reach. Xeno went on a rant about the difference between warrior and gunbreaker. But... 1) they swaped bard to dancer to buff their samurai and swapped red mage to summoner 2) drak knight had weakness on their clear of the dps check and there was 2 damage downs on both dancer and samurai So did the change help? most likely as he himself did more damage. Was it a must do? I kind of doubt that. It's hard to believe the gain from war to gnb is so big that it could negate a weakness on the drk (+ 2 damage down!) and then we have the fact that most week1 groups spent 2h farming as much tomes as possible for some extra gear, while world first group didn't bother with that according to their interview with Frosty.

@MairnSA

Жыл бұрын

@@marcodossantos5366 So... you are confirming that multiple people *DID* need to swap to more "meta" classes to beat the DPS check? (swapping Red Mage for Summoner AND Bard for Dancer) on top of also swapping Warrior to beat the DPS check? I am not sure what sort of argument you are making here, considering three people felt the need to swap to higher DPS classes to beat the DPS check.

@marcodossantos5366

Жыл бұрын

@@MairnSA no, 3 people did indead swap. Yet they had 2 full debuff time damage down and 1 almost full debuff time weakness from a death. Sure you could look at that and say "those jobs are massively OP, look at that, they swapped and cleared a hard dps check that was blocking them even with 3 debuffs that heavily nerfs their dps". Or you could say they are massively better at those jobs than they are at the ones before the swap. You could even go so far as say "they beat an extremely tight dps check with 1 dead and 2 damage down, guess it's not so tight afterall" Without an extremely intensive look at their performance to check what happened you could use the same footage to reach very opposing conclusions, that's what I'm saying

@MairnSA

Жыл бұрын

After swapping to three better balanced classes they managed to beat the boss even with a death and 2 damage downs, but couldn't do it without swapping. One of two things happened, all of which completely dismantles your point: 1) They played equally as well on their main classes and swapping classes got them the clear. 2) They somehow played *worse* on the swapped classes, and *still* got the clear, meaning that the classes they swapped to did more DPS than their mains even when played worse.

PLD is not doing less damage than WAR and is in fact doing slightly more... what are you on about lol?

@rexkwando09

Жыл бұрын

It's doing slightly more in 2 fights, the rest WAR is beating them out. A lot like Cole is saying though, PLD damage is unfortunately dependent on crit chance.

Its not about meta, its about not letting ur group down, u can play pld but swaping to drk will fixx that damge down a dps get. Its not my foult if dps get damge down but still i dont expect a perfect run ethier

Give MCH their own battle peloton and watch it be top ranged dps lol

I will be honest, thinking of dropping sage for scholar, mainly because of all the movement due to the mechanics. If I didn't enjoy both classes, I really wouldn't care that much lol. Plus as much as I enjoy sage, I do get annoyed with the button to change heal/shield and dps/dot everytime

@Downbythebay22

Жыл бұрын

I don't understand this at all. Sage is wildly mobile. I feel like the reason I don't like scholar in comparison to my sage is that I have to stand still to cast things where on sage, basically the only thing I have to hardcast is dosis and pneuma I think

@ahlee3455

Жыл бұрын

Honestly the optimal thing to do is play both and swap depending on the fight. Sge is vastly superior to sch in say p7s for instance whereas sch is better in other fights. Also the whole "sch dps better than sge dps" is rubbish. The outliers for sch especially are in high performing teams where chain rdps is way higher than in lower performing teams. I have found that if you personally are playing consistently but others in your group (either due to pfing or a static that don't necessarily have the greatest players) you can do consistently higher rdps on sge due to maintaining uptime during mechanics far easier + not having rdps loss due to DD/weakness/misalignment during chain from others. If you want to discuss healing then again its a very fight and team comp dependent + what you're most comfortable with. the amount of burst/insta cast shields + reactive hps throughput is vastly superior on sge compared to sch making it imo better in a pf environment or in certain fights like p7s (think kera for people moving to diff platforms, gcd shields if you need to gcd heal during purg), however if you have a very capable ast (which you see in high end groups) then sch is often preferred due to a stronger co-ordination. At the end of the day don't drop sge for sch or vice versa because of meta - play what's most comfy for the environment you're in (pf v static, whats the quality of your cohealer, which toolkit fits a fight design better, which do you have the most experience on/enjoy playing more, what's easier to execute within the group i.e. group comp/co-ordination, etc.)

Being a Black Mage never felt so good.

@UndercoverCracker

Жыл бұрын

True but it also still doesn't feel as good as other jobs.......

whm need some help shield healer shouldn't outheal the pure healer role.

@robowolfzane6666

Жыл бұрын

Whm is fine it just Whm not casting heals and doing more glare spam

Really enjoying the buffs WAR got this patch, but I do feel like Im falling off a bit. I have other GNB and DRK at 90, so its not like I dont have options but I always use the same mentality of 'Play what you like'. Well, I'm playing what I like and I'm starting not to like anymore simply because the gap feels absolutely insane this time around. So the memes are 1000% correct. WARs leaving for GNB isnt just a meme - it's an unfortunate reality of which the wear and tear is showing.

Larry on blm xD? Now that is the content I want to see!

I'm really unsure why everyone playing this game only seems to look at raid DPS, it's only one category of DPS and doesn't tell the whole story especially for jobs without raid buffs to begin with. To analyze Samurai or Black Mage's contribution from a perspective that is basically irrelevant to them seems quite bizarre and it seems to be why people constantly think these 2 jobs are underpowered or balanced when it couldn't be further from the truth. As of now, and basically for the last several years these 2 jobs are firmly #1 and #2 in DPS contribution and feed into raid buffs by far the best, particularly Samurai. You can just compare a total party DPS with them vs without them for a more accurate picture. Like just because the Samurai is 'leeching' from raid buffs, it doesn't mean that DPS they're doing with them just disappears into a void, it still counts and should be considered lol

@catfood4142

Жыл бұрын

I wanted to say this since shadowbringer, rdps is a hidden data and is only accessible till the finished battle and uploaded parse data on the log site, where the actual in game experience is that , a lot rage physical dps casually gets out damaged by dark knight during the initial burst somewhere around till boss drops below 80% hp, and on wards range physicals dps is unmatchable compare to other dps

@catfood4142

Жыл бұрын

I understand it has to do with balance as if bards rdps (after soaking up the dps gain) is somewhere comparable to caster class then the number feels about right, but then that caused mch to not make sense

your tier is wrong because blu beat all jobs without the broken spells etc hands down and thy suppose to be number 1 as for dnc S tier wth totally wrong

Black mage should be even higher up ther competing with meeles for the top 3 spots

@ventrue7

Жыл бұрын

It is so weird why sam and blm not back in the top again.

Wtf happened to Sage? Used to be the absolute best now all of the sudden its bottom tier? Sge so much easier for me to heal with. I love the mobility to the class. Especially doing P7S Sleepo strat. Lot easier to move and mitigate/heal with it than Scholar

@arionell

Жыл бұрын

Sage is doing just fine.

@SILVERONIN

Жыл бұрын

Nothing happened, stop taking these dumb lists seriously

@24hr-Gaming

Жыл бұрын

Asphedelos it was only better than whm because pre 6.1 whm was ass to coheal with. It always did worse than scholar because it has no way to compete with chain and critlo. They gave holos a shield but you know expedience is a good button and still no answer for chain. It's not bad by any means. If you want an easy healer sage is pretty easy. Just if you're trying to be sweaty scholar is just better. I think this tier because the arenas are huge range on stuff is a much bigger problem, like Asphadelos I didn't have any issue with hitting everyone with mit and shield, but this tier I've heard a lot of complaints. Plus, since it's early and a lot of things are heavy hitting you're more likely to run out of ogcds to roll and have to rely on e. prognosis which is... not great.

Paladins should just whine as much as DRKs do, that should help.

[sarcastically] argh, click bait title, and I fall for it.

Excuse you? Sage low tier???

This video would hurt xenos feelings.

All my favorite jobs are trash tier. I have 4 kids so I don't even know what a rotation is. I last parsed in the bottom 1% as a warrior. Just got past p8s dps check today with 2 friends in a pug. Broke up to cook dinner at enrage but we got him by the end of the week.

Here's a tip: Don't look at the statistics and play what you're more comfortable with. Just because GNB does more DMG on paper then PLD, doesn't mean you will have the same result due to being overwhelmed with GNBs pace while also solving mechanics.

@IKeepGettingFlagged

Жыл бұрын

That has been the case for the most part but the job balance is so bad at this point that you are actively shooting yourself in the foot by not picking a better job. For example, Xenosys Vex, the best Warrior player in the game ,HAD to *-HAD-*- to- swap to GNB to clear P8S otherwise they would not have the damage. I can also attest to this, I play WAR to the 99th percentile and I was getting beat by mid 40s GNBs in P7S. Despite being more comfortable with WAR by a far far larger margin, it was near impossible to meet the p7s DPS check. The DMG ceiling is just too capped.

@chrislakatos7999

Жыл бұрын

@@IKeepGettingFlagged what's the rest of your team comp

@destinl8382

Жыл бұрын

@@IKeepGettingFlagged you are exagerating the tanks and ignoring other aspects. For example in Xeno's clear which is posted on youtube they have a sunmoner as the caster, which according to fflogs is the lowest rdps of all the dps jobs right now. Its litterally doing less dmg than psy ranged in p7s prt 2. So to say "you have to play gunbreaker" is dumb. taking a BLM istead of a summoner is an over 600 dps increase while GNB is a 100 dps increase over WAR. Whats more likely is that xeno swapped to GNB because it was more practical and/or because he is better at GNB than the caster player is at playing BLM

@Kromheim

Жыл бұрын

@@IKeepGettingFlagged Now that's a case of terrible tweaking on SE's behalf which isn't the first time since P4S Phase 1 had the same problem on release because the Devs tweaked it around Reapers numbers... dunno how that happened but that was the offical statement. And I will probably will always parse way higher as PLD then I will when playing as GNB or DRK because I have 3 years of experience on that job. At least I don't see myself getting anywhere close to my 6.4k dps in P5S I did as PLD when playing those.

meta comps = better chance of making enrage, simple as that. You can play less optimally and make the dps check if you're playing higher dps jobs.

We kicked our MCH to manage week 1.

Four ears tho?

Scholars have been dealing with memes shitting on them since Scholar was only so much as described. Sage can deal with not being 100% overpowered in every single area. And to a degree they still are because they're the new class that gets special treatment.

Got everything to 90 and imo for me I pick the job with the aesthetics that fit me lol

I just like my SCH and DRG ok and wanna be the best at those jobs. Know how to play your job well and you too can be an outlier.

Luckily I can give 2 shits about savage. When you see me in a random roulette on my MCH, it’s because I’m doing the bare minimum.

thank you for your take on this. Reddit and the FFXIV community has become a complete shitshow based on misinformation and false data. this new era of players who don't play savage at all, or casual savage players looking at week one logs where people have funneled gear or regurgitating the words of salty streamers and shit talking the devs about class balance is really disappointing.

@Its_an_Eze

Жыл бұрын

Honestly I'm kinda feeling the same. Like it's only been a problem for early on clear stuff and typically certain comps and strategies seem and look strong and or weak because of people looking to clear as fast as possible. Yoshi P mentioned on more than one occasion about how things were going to be more difficult. Well here you go. You wanted a challenge? Here you go. As a savage raider I can understand their viewpoints but I also have to look at the other side of things.

I don't like the idea that someone that doesn't intend on cleaning week one shouldn't be preoccupied with this. The job balance right now reflects the general state of the game, a general lack of polish since endwalker dropped. Job balance should be an issue for everyone.

It's kind of how's it's always been. Paladin is better for prog. Gnb is better for parse runs. I enjoy playing paladin over gnb though. I'm sure I'm in a small minority on that 😂

@Bravadorado

Жыл бұрын

Except PLD isn't better for prog this time around since the DPS checks are so tight you need the extra GNB DPS.

@JohnnyTsunami55

Жыл бұрын

@@Bravadorado somehow I don't think the buff today was enough

Whm is in a rough spot that I don't see ever being addressed. Especially with how strong and now required barrier healers have become. Look at the p5s, sonic howl aside, every other raid wide can 1 shot people without mitigation. Whm is completely reliant on other classes to keep the party alive on those, it's ridiculous.

meta doesnt matter. Savage and Ultimates are designed to be cleared with any job at min ilvl. Yes, even with machinist in the team

BLM huh, doesn't Yoshi play a blm as main??? Go figure.