448 Ft/lbs of energy for a 10mm is a bit disappointing. If those are the ballistics a person is seeking, they'd be better off with a .40S&W as that's in its ballpark. Anything providing less than 600 Ft/lbs is a watered-down, neutered 10mm. Underwood, Buffalo and Double Tap routinely drive the 10mm to its actual potential, typically in the 700 - 750 ft/lbs range. Thanks for this video. I was mistakenly under the impression this load was properly loaded.

@ShastaBean

2 ай бұрын

YW & I agree it's quite weak. I did shoot handloads of this into gel, and I took it up to 1170 fps and every shot (6 in total) was basically identical penetration to this factory load. They were all right at ~19-20". So, while I understand people want their 10mm to be full-power, it doesn't look to give very much benefit with these projectiles. I'm sure it would have more capability when it comes to something like striking bone, or if clothing involved, the higher velocity probably gives a better chance of not getting clogged and fail to expand, but that'd take some testing. I think if they just loaded these to something like 1100-1150 fps, people might be more content that it's "close enough". Low 1000s is hard to swallow, especially given how expensive they are.

Thanks for the video man.

@ShastaBean

11 ай бұрын

👍

Thanks for posting this. It seems to me this amount of expansion is exactly what Federal/Swift A Frame designed it to do(penetrate more,expand less ) more geared to the large game , bear defense crowd. Your result looks exactly like the picture on their box. Go for the HST bullet if more expansion is what you seek.

@ShastaBean

7 ай бұрын

this is one of the reasons I make the videos public...I foolishly didn't even notice the box picture. haha. Thanks for pointing it out and I was hoping someone might mention something like this. I have a couple boxes of HST and similar to these, thought they were mighty slow, but have seen tests where they do still expand pretty well at that low speed. And they went deep. Real 10% gel might show more of a difference between these and HSTs? I carry the Underwood 200 gr XTP but might consider some of these a bit further down in the magazine. If you didn't see, I also posted vids of these bullets at some higher speeds (~1100-1150), and they basically look identical to this, and essentially the same penetration depth but certainly a couple of inches further as vel increased. kzread.info/dash/bejne/q5qK0ceRo7K7Zto.htmlsi=--esyrKkvrZxH2mx So for me, other than functioning tests to ensure what velocity cycles best, no big reason to jack them up over 1200 fps, especially if recoil is taken into account. I don't have bears to consider for, but that could definitely be another reason to get them up in that 1175-1225 fps range. Thanks again

@pg214

7 ай бұрын

Yes, in this case with this bullet I don’t think velocity will change the results too much. The tell tale sign is how far the cuts in the copper outer jacket go down the side. If you visually compare the Swift/A Frame to the HST bullet you’ll see the difference. This bullet you tested here is exactly what I’m looking for, for woods defense. Again thanks for posting and I will be checking out the other vid you referenced.

@ShastaBean

7 ай бұрын

@@pg214 thanks & glad it was useful. I had considered it mostly failure, and others in comments looked at it same way in terms of expansion. Now I see it as success, considering what it was designed to do - - it does that. I'm also going to shoot the new 5.6" M&P with at least one of the 3 rounds I did in the other video. I have them already loaded and at least want to see the increase in velocity and be able to compare penetration totals to the 4". That will hopefully be in vids in a week, or 2. Lots of other gel shooting planned and most is 5.7 x 28, but also some .308 light & some .223 light bullets I'm interested in.

@pg214

7 ай бұрын

@@ShastaBean Exactly right, not a failure. I googled this particular round and that’s how I found your vid. Swift A-Frame is a legendary hunting bullet ( Thorr’s Hammer) …different bullets and loadings for different purposes.

Great bullet poor velocity Should be at least 1250fps

@ShastaBean

5 ай бұрын

Agree - it's pretty weak. Although from testing perspective that saves me from having to load slow vel and see if still works. Glad to see it performed the same here as when I loaded hotter. I took up to 1170 fps and have now put a total of 7 of these bullets into gel and they are all nearly identical looking and same ~19 - 20" penetration. I may next do a clothing test or two to see how that might affect them. They should come out with 2 different offerings, because some people might actually prefer the more manageable .40sw velocity if it's actually not going to change how it performs in a target...while I think most people using 10mm still want it to be 10mm vel like you mentioned.

Have you had any problems with the M&P 10mm? I bought one early and could never get it to run so I sold it. Curious if S&W has it worked out now.

@ShastaBean

Жыл бұрын

I've had a couple cycling failures with 180 Sig ammo. But the Hornady Custom (180 & 155) and S&B 180 and CCI 180 has functioned (so far - haven't shot nearly enough to date). I did have LPS issues with the handloads I tested during this outing (video to come later). I shot a few factory rounds after those to make sure it was me, and not the firing-pin or something. It did fire & cycle fine after my loads. I keep saying I need to run a few hundred more rounds through this to really vet it, but just haven't taken the time yet.

I am curious to see how it expanded with 4 layers of denim in front. I have had Failures to expand in gel with all major brands of Hollow Points when shooting through denim.

@ShastaBean

8 ай бұрын

Yes, I agree & wish ballistic-tips were more of an option in handgun rounds. Why Hornady doesn't sell their FTX bullets in .40cal ? - is sucky. l didn't really know anything about the A-Frames when I bought them, and just wanted to see if there was something magical about them, because of how expen$ive they are!! And one thing looks pretty clear, is they won't lose their jacket or come apart at all. But I do think they are better advantage if going really fast. The denim test is ultimately where things need to be shown if they'll expand, but I'm not there yet. I only tested these factory rounds to have a baseline to compare some handloads. These were a bit slow, but the expansion looked pretty similar to the 3 loads I shot, that still only got to ~1150. I may take one up to 1200 and see if it's any different, but at this point I don't expect it to look much different. If I can, I'll try to get a test through clothes. I can't say when. Still too hot here, and have myself overloaded with too many things trying. In case you missed, here's vid with the other 3 handloads with this bullet. Nothing much different to see, tho. kzread.info/dash/bejne/q5qK0ceRo7K7Zto.htmlsi=Oamsdwjffva4g6E0

You always post my favorite rounds. Try out a Glock 40 longslide

@ShastaBean

Жыл бұрын

Send me one to test 🙂

@ShastaBean

Жыл бұрын

Had an exchange with someone on a different channel last night...who mentioned their Underwood 200 gr vel w/their G40, but not a KKM barrel (1280 fps). I'd be too uneasy using stock barrel and want to use non-smiley brass to reload. I know it helps function, but not fully supported would always be on my mind. I would like to see the extra velocity I'm giving up with this 4", though. I loaded a few of these myself in same outing, along with the FTX 200 gr. I'm hoping I can at least get up to a vel that will open these up sufficiently. I was actually a bit pleasantly surprised this opened at all. What I am really interested in is a carbine. Keeping hoping Ruger or Smith will come out with one.

@ShastaBean

Жыл бұрын

XTP, not FTX...I sure do that a lot.

I keep wondering if i should have gotten the 4.6"

@ShastaBean

Жыл бұрын

I am thinking about buying one. Unfortunately, I have no way of knowing what these bullets would do out of even a 6" barrel. There were no videos last I checked. They might actually look the same. I have 3 shots that I loaded myself and put into gel at vel of 1097, 1112, and 1147 fps and they all look identical to each other, for the most part. In fact this slowest one has the largest diameter. I'm fine with carrying the 155 gr XTP, but was curious about whether I could make the 200 gr work. The A-Frame are just so expensive I wondered if there was something magical about them. I bought a box of 200 gr XTP Underwood sitting on my table here that I'll be testing and shoot into gel to compare and probably pull one apart. I'm not quite sure what velocity I can push the 200 gr to with the 4". Was hoping 1150 would make a bullet work fine. I'll be uploading videos of those shots in coming days if I can ever finish with all the 5.7 x 28 shots. Wasn't in a rush though, since there's really nothing different to see other than about ~ 1" - 2" more penetration as speed went up.

@ShastaBean

Жыл бұрын

How about the 5.6" Performance Center? I have decided to get one...but of course now can't find one.

Not great expansion out of the 4” barrel, thanks for showing this!!

@ShastaBean

Жыл бұрын

yup, not great - but at least "some"? I just wanted to see what the factory load would do as a baseline comparison. I have a couple boxes of projectiles I'm loading so hopefully I can get some higher velocities and they'll perform.

@ShastaBean

7 ай бұрын

someone just pointed out that these actually performed just like they are supposed to, and are same as the picture on the box (which I neglected to even notice before. lol). With that in mind, and what they market these for, would actually make a pretty solid choice for big-game, especially if hand load to bigger velocity and gain those couple/few inches of penetration that they did when pushed over 1100 - 1150 fps.

Very slow just above 1000 fps

@ShastaBean

6 ай бұрын

yup. It's slow just like their 200 gr HST...although both do look to function as advertised in terms of opening

@ShastaBean

6 ай бұрын

and for what it's worth, this particular round was slower than all others I fired of the ammo. Another round was 1045 fps. Also, I shot it with the Magneto Speed chrono attached and it clocked 1046 fps. The HST was 1065. From the 5.6" perf ctr it the HST was 1097 and this A-frame was 1055 fps. Not much better, but this 1004 seems an exception, not the norm. My handloads through the 5.6" were up to 1169 fps and they look identical to this one. Extra velocity doesn't seem to change terminal performance aside from maybe 2" of penetration, but should be easier to fire multiple shots. Silver lining, maybe.

Why on earth are you going through all this trouble with money and good setup..chrono...slow mo...and yet not putting either 4lr Clothing or 4lr Denim at the front of the block? Without that is is almost completely useless data w clear gel. Literally means nothing to real world penetration or expansion data that will be similar to that in 2 legged bodies (yes, even if they are naked). Why not narrate?

@ShastaBean

Жыл бұрын

I live in Arizona. So, 4 layers of anything is pretty much not real-world here, and more unlikely than no layers at all. One layer of t-shirt would be really useful, though...and I'll eventually do other tests...and eventually probably mess with 10% gel and/or layers of stuff and/or barriers. This is just a data-point for me to see what various rounds are doing that I haven't seen others do. To think outcomes in bare gel is useless if astounding. There's a ton of valuable info to be gleaned from it...at least for me, there is. I don't worship at the alter of the FBI 12-18" thingy although even that protocol supposedly includes bare-gel, doesn't it? Along with the layers & barriers? So it must mean something. It is the sum of them. Not just that one test w/clothing. 10% gel is meant to represent muscle-tissue. Living beings don't even remotely get represented by it. It's just a medium and so is the clear-gel. So both have plenty of valude. Bones, skin/hides, water (the red stuff), organs, fat...are all different than muscle and all different than either gel. Same goes for 20% organic, or the other protocols out there besides the FBI one that people even think rifle rounds apply to. Gasp. I just saw a Hornady video of 223 that only went 10" and people say it's inadequate. Ugh. None of the videos I post are for entertainment of others, or really to give others any sort of viewing experience. It's really only for me and to refer to at a later date. I only make them public in case someone finds it of value, and some people have so I might add this or that if someone asks, but narrate? No intention of doing that to just talk to myself. If I meant for this to be a g*nTuber channel, I certainly wouldn't have K-Pop images & videos hanging around. haha. I did like your talk about the Tissue-crush stuff, and so I do appreciate some narrating & discussion. It's just not what I'm doing...yet, maybe. But I do have to say...Man, get a spreadsheet!!! Seeing those notes on that sheet of paper made me curl up into a ball in the fetal position and crouch in the corner for 25 minutes. haha. But seriously, I started out with just notes & paper and if you use a Google-sheet, or Excel you will quickly wonder why you didn't do it sooner. It's worth it even if you have to take time to learn to use them. And the big-caliber vs. small...you do mention recoil but I don't think that applies to ONLY those who are sensitive. Even experienced shooters are going to deliver faster and more accurate hits with less recoil. I carry a 10mm & a 5.7 x 28 when I am walking around here because of javelinas. I've been charged once and chased once. If I ever feel they won't let me run away, I am most likely reaching for the 5.7 because I know I can shoot it better & faster. Especially since I don't shoot nearly enough anyway. But after watching Colion Noir try to shoot his Glock 40 and also his 5.7 guns...I know it's not just me. Paul Harrel shrunk his two-shot drill from 25 seconds to 17 seconds on his 1st go with the Ruger LC vs his AR. That's 26" improvement. So he gets 5 hits, rather than 4. That's something, sometimes. I will have to watch your video some more to get the whole mathematical gist of that data you had. But did find it interesting on 1st view.