That’s why they left Eurofighter Typhoon consortium. At least Britain can be relied upon to be truly inclusive, collaborative and unselfish…

@jelepettos1894

6 ай бұрын

With uk you will end up needing to buy an american fighter to complete your fleet. Kinda stupid to developp the typhoon and need to buy a f35 lol. France just doesnt want to bender over to usa but uk seem to like it.

@wsm7929

5 ай бұрын

​@jelepettos1894 British industry will build 15 percent by value of each of the more than 3,000 planned F-35s, generating significant export revenue and GDP growth. Secound only to the USA. So the UK does quite well out of the F35.

@Orbital_Inclination

5 ай бұрын

​@@jelepettos1894F-35 has replaced a different capability to Typhoon. They fulfil different needs. The UK couldn't have produced anything close to the F-35 on its own, so teamed up with the US on the project from the outset and had significant input into the development.

@sucellus5452

5 ай бұрын

i think france demand was clear at this time a true multirole and naval capable. britain and germany wanted an interceptor with no copmpromise on french demand... so bye bye. the end we know it... 4 batch to make EF2000 a bad multirole jet fighter 20 years later and an impossibility to be naval capable for queen elizabeth aircraft carrier. and buy F35 b 🤣. the joke of the century

@NotUnymous

5 ай бұрын

Sure... Thats what the UK is known for 😅🙈

The MBB Lampyridae (Latin for Firefly) was a low-observable medium missile fighter (MRMF) developed during the 1980s by the West German aerospace company Messerschmitt-Bölkow-Blohm (MBB).[1] The programme was terminated during 1987 without any production aircraft having been produced.[2] Germans had a 1980s stealth program.

@LOLOVAL-os3pq

5 ай бұрын

LOL, it's not because a plane has the shape of a stealth plane that it is stealthy! there are certainly particular shapes, but special materials are also needed, often paints! the supposedly stealthy Russian SU57 is not stealthy at all! the Chinese J 20 is not more stealthy! LOL and stealth is not only against radars, but also against infrared! in any case, the new Rafale F5 will be equipped with a long-range radar, the RBE2 flight phase, so impossible to say if it is stealthy or not! we must not take these dreams for realities LOL

@thorluis226

2 ай бұрын

It has been rumored that the project was shown to CIA officials, and days later development was ordered to be canceled

UK is better off not partnering with Germany. They’re the reason why euro fighter cannot be exported. UK did the right thing by partnering with Japan and Sweden. Frankly Germans and French will have an argument half way into the program.

@massimobernardo-

26 күн бұрын

Italy not Sweden

@chethemerc7841

14 күн бұрын

​@@massimobernardo-saab is.

DO YOU FORGET SPAIN??????????

Britian and germany should sign a cooperation treaty trade, military and innovation there our closet family in europe we are germanic in heritage

@NATObait

7 ай бұрын

No NO NO ! Germany won't sell Eurofighters to Saudi Arabia and will scratch their scrotums while the order goes to Rafale! If Germany considered it's partners then that would/ should be a majority vote or pay them compensation! Germany has proved itself someone you don't want to be handcuffed with in military sales.

@skygod1975

7 ай бұрын

I'm a brit. Iv lived in Germany. Now live in England. You are actually right lol I'm awaiting outrage from fellow Brits but funnily enough it's true!

@pitmarkovic4545

7 ай бұрын

Absolut Right 👍 I think the Government goes with British and Japan so in the past it is always difficult with French and Belgium like that place from Germany for FCAS.I hope we do FCAS fighter for my didn't 6.Gen

@RajBlake7

6 ай бұрын

Why let Germany join the GCAP programme, they bring little to the table and on current politics will actually stop sales of the finished aircraft. Germany is proving herself the worst possible partner !

@NATObait

6 ай бұрын

​@@RajBlake7Germany would be a good partner provided they allow a majority vote on who the end product can be sold too, with the partners in the project. At the moment Spain, Italy and the UK want to build Eurofighters for Saudi Arabia but Germany has refused. Turkey has tentatively mentioned it would buy Eurofighter Typhoons ( maybe used ) and Germany has already said NO on behalf of its partners?!! Perhaps Germany has better financial security than her partners or is more politically balanced but they don't speak for all others and her high handed position means nobody wants to partner with them. Dassault's position is obvious they don't want Germany vetoing future sales in FCAS and unless Macron can " Pull a Rabbit out of the Hat " that possible outcome is a Red Flag. UK , Japan and Italy have a project that looks to be workable and a combination of 2 possible projects being linked . Remember the Japanese Mitsubishi F2 was the first AESA platform and was the basis for F22 avionic style Radars. So if the FCAS project fails would the ' Tempest ' partners want Germany.......No unless they except a no veto without majority vote. The project will move further away from German design influence the longer the timescale goes. Does Germany keep whispering to the Tempest team in case FCAS goes south ... probably and that keeps France on its toes. Has Dassault plans to go it alone..... definitely and that probably means Rafale F5 will combine FCAS systems into an upgraded version. Let me know if the betting shops are offering good odds on this race.

It doesn’t matter if the Germany chosen FCAS or Tempest, in either case Germany will have a second role

@Cartoonman154

7 ай бұрын

Yes, they will relegated to junior role or observer.

@NATObait

5 ай бұрын

Germany should only stay in a project where it has no veto and full production lines would guarantee partners the option to build freely for chosen customers. This will allow sales to third parties when Germany inevitably goes wobbly like it has over the Saudi Arabian Typhoon sale.

@NATObait

5 ай бұрын

Breaking News Germany back tracks and will allow sales to Saudi Arabia that it has blocked since 2018 !! Basically to late. Nobody wants Germany for a partner . French people and Dassault don't want German participation because they are the THE WEAKEST LINK and are guaranteed to go wobbly again. Poor Spain and France. Germany should pay billions in compensation to its partners 🇪🇸🇮🇹🇬🇧 for lost sales and potentially jobs. Saudi Arabia may not purchase any more Eurofighter Typhoons because of the prospects of future flip flop sanctions. Now Germany has a distinct feeling that it is not wanted by Dassault and has been testing it's bail out position and will be begging for participation somewhere, anywhere! For those who believe I have exaggerated the position about light weight German politicians, we only have to remember Germany announced no possibility of sales to Turkey ( of second hand Eurofighters ) would be allowed and it would veto that position. Did it talk to its partners and except a majority vote??! Good luck to Germany and it's people, they now face no positive participation in any new fighter aircraft projects in Europe so they will be buying from others ( including US ) as they don't have the ability to build by themselves.

@dieterdodel835

5 ай бұрын

@@NATObait ...BS

@NATObait

5 ай бұрын

@@dieterdodel835 I stand bye my comment. Germany have proved a liability as a partner.

BAE should have invested more money in project greenglow maybe they could have changed aerospace forever.

It might of unveiled but that was not the finished model of the 6th gen Fighter it was just a concept , please do your homework .

I'm sure I read somewhere about the Tempest having swarm drones.

@saundyuk

5 ай бұрын

Yes, one of it's modular features (remember it's being designed to be able to fill multiple roles) is to act as the controlling 'hive mind' for a drone swarm.

Next these 8 countries merge their programs to create a mega 6th gen fighter jet 🔥🔥🔥 That would shock the world and realistically speaking they are allied countries so everyone working with same platforms could benefit eachother

@barrymiller3385

5 ай бұрын

Unfortunately it is not always easy to work constructively with the French. (And no doubt the French would say it is not always easy to work with the British!)

@knowledgeiswealth.

5 ай бұрын

@@barrymiller3385 they always in a medivial feud

@thegto8535

5 ай бұрын

@@knowledgeiswealth. It's nothing like a medieval feud although it can appear that way and it's actually the same with Germany. To France both have proved to be unreliable and prone on taking the easy way out by buying american and now want to collect on both ends. On the other hand since they have been doing great things on their own for the last 50-60 years and because they know most of other European countries would tend to do the same as UK and Germany, France is reluctant to let go of a single drop of command over the project to any counterpart.

@knowledgeiswealth.

5 ай бұрын

@@thegto8535 maybe they don't view uk as a reliable partner?idk I don't believe its that france is unreliable i can think of bunch of weapons system they worked together like storm shadow,exocet And if they merge 6th gen fighter jet programs its a win-win for both

@thegto8535

5 ай бұрын

@@knowledgeiswealth. I was talking about planes -even if they had the Concord and Jaguar with the brits, lots of issues arose btw the two countries over those programs. They also developed some ships with the italians and a helicopter an a trainer jet with the germans too but that's almost it. Developing platforms when you don't expect the same out of the project can be tedious. The project for the next MBT between France and Germany is already a shitstorm. Policies are too far apart on military, defense and economic topics, it's easier to get along on ammunition.

Europe must be united as well as these two programs

@squirepraggerstope3591

3 ай бұрын

NOT under the loathsome EU and NOT at the price of we British being frogmarched back under EU control. Not to mention that Japan (and Italy and Sweden) are already far more reliable and capable partners than certainly France would be and most likely than Germany as well. In the latter case, largely as Berlin's involvement would itself be followed anyway by ever increasing interference from the rancid EU Brussels bureaucracy. Accordingly Germany (and especially France) should be rigidly excluded from the joint Japan/UK/Italy/Sweden 6th gen fighter programme.

The reality is that the French government want FCAS to show la gloire de la France, and Dassault Aviation is determined to be be the undisputed prime contractor. The role of Germany and Spain is to cough up lots of money and do some low tech metal bashing . We were of course in the same place in the 1980's with the Future European Fighter Aircraft" (FEFA) programme, which France left in huff in 1985 when the other countries refused to give it the lead role. France just managed to fund on its own what became Rafale, but it was a close run thing in 1990's. Germany has effectively now played its ace card on the FCAS industrial set-up by threatening to join Tempest, the question now is does France think that this is a bluff and will try to call it? We will see in the next few months. But it is hard to see France being able to produce FCAS on its own. Most likely FCAS will become just a technology demonstrator programme, and the French effort will be placed on developing a new generation Super Rafale that could stay in production through the 2030's. A capable but reasonably priced 4.5G multi-role aircraft that is "western" but not American may well maintain the niche export market that French combat aircraft have held since the 1960s'.

@pitmarkovic4545

7 ай бұрын

Die Franzosen müssen nicht Belgien ist an dem Platz Deutschland interessiert und ich bitte darum schnellstmöglich mit den Briten und Japan zusammen zu arbeiten vorallem ist es ein 6.Gen fighter der schon in 20 Jahren überholt sein wird,es wird alles noch schneller in dieser Hinsicht gehen da die Amis nach 70 Jahren endlich die Gravitation besiegt hat, natürlich nicht Offiziell!!

@glynnwright1699

6 ай бұрын

I agree with most everything you have written, although it is only an 'ace' if it is credible. I doubt that there is much enthusiasm from the British to have Germany as a partner.

@teggart123

5 ай бұрын

You seem so knowledgeable on this subject! Could I pester you ( if you don’t mind ) telling me the difference between these 2 systems. Dumb it down for me a little ? 😂 so I can understand. And I know everything is speculation etc at the moment.. but who would put your money on getting the best completed system out ? Do you think Germany will join the tempest ? Or do you think the issues will be rectified and France, Germany find common ground ? If you don’t mind I’d love your opinion

@thegto8535

5 ай бұрын

Can't really blame the french on that one, Germany is as much a vassal of the USA as the UK is; for the last decades neither wanted to bear the cost of developing and buying indigenous european platforms and systems from top to bottom, buying american to save a few pennies instead. Why would France be keen on sharing decades of hard earned experience and know how when they know from experience their counterpart to be unreliable ? Same will happen / has happened with the next generation MBT. There are other factors too, like the energy issue between the two countries and others little pebbles that arose during the last 40 years that do not encourage trust nor collaboration. There could be an other opportunity for France, to join forces with Sweden who seems to be out of the Tempest picture since the UK-Italy-Japan announcement. It could present a lesser risk for them than Germany. Sweden has said neither projects were on par with their plan but things can change quite quickly.

@augustiner3821

5 ай бұрын

just wait, France can do everything on it's own. And the result is - of course - like always far superior.

Nope. Apparently, The Times published an unnamed source, which tends to happen, that reported that Germany was in talks in talks to join GCAP, which has already been denied by Germany and the UK. But, the MGCS project is pretty much dead due to strained relations, so anything is possible at the moment. Also, Sweden is not involved with GCAP or SCAF. Sweden has mentioned that both projects do not align with their current plans.

@NATObait

5 ай бұрын

Haha UK has seen how reliable a partner Germany is. All the hand wringing and hollow promises that they won't veto future sales will fall on deaf ears. France are well and truly super glued to the dithering Lobby of German Greens. Good luck to France and Spain ( and Belgium the observer partner ) on pulling this project off.

@saundyuk

5 ай бұрын

Meh - it's always been that way. When the UK was in the EU, our role was basically to play piggy in the middle between France and Germany and stop them both from throwing their toys out of the pram. Whilst we were there, they both got to pretend they get on like a house on fire and we are the bad guy. Now that we've left, everyone can see their incapable of cooperating on virtually anything any more.

Geez your lost, Sweden left te program before Japan joined and it was launched as GCAS Global Combat air system, and why use the F22 videos which is not related at all...

@Cartoonman154

7 ай бұрын

Because of B roll and laziness.

@eouzcuemarz3114

7 ай бұрын

​@@Cartoonman154lol😂

The United Kingdom has not shared how it plans on developing and delivering new technologies tied to the sixth generation future fighter and associated system of systems known as the Global Combat Air Programme (GCAP) with Italian manufacturer and partner Leonardo, according to company CEO Roberto Cingolani. Led by Italy, Japan and the UK, GCAP is set to launch its “core platform” or next generation fighter plane development phase next year, but a frustrated Cingolani told reporters that he has still not seen “anything specifically as a capability from the UK” and suggested the roles of industry partners were not made “very clear” from a competence assessment, designed to define manufacturing responsibilities. He said work with partners must be “transparent” and “collaborative,” adding “it’s impossible to have a 20-year-long consortium with the idea that we don’t share the information.” For a start, the joint team “should make a serious competence assessment, and then I think there will be surprises,” he said during a press briefing last week to launch Leonardo’s 2024-2028 industrial plan.

@NATObait

Ай бұрын

France have made their position crystal clear. 1. French Design 2. French Engines 3. French lead on the Project 4. Carrier version

Similar design with F22

Me vas a perdonar pero me he sentido dolido. España es miembro de pleno derecho con las mismas facultades que Francia y Alemania. La verdad es que el único que es responsable y coherente en este programa es España, francia quiere que España y Alemania apaguen y que sus empresas sean las que se lleven el dinero, de Alemania no te puedes fiar si no fíjate qué está pasando con el Eurofighter de Arabia Saudí. Lo dicho el único responsable y coherente España.

@Voyageursdelanuit

6 ай бұрын

Ah yes the Spanish are consistent and reliable, you have short memory .... the behavior of the Spanish in the case of the submarines of Agosta has still not passed in France ...... we need Neither Germans nor Spaniards or person !!! We are going to do our own new generation plane as usual

@axelscharf2415

4 ай бұрын

​@Voyageursdelanuit I wish that was true . Germany should have never agreed to parcipate . Financing Daussalt helps France but nobody else in Europe .

@Voyageursdelanuit

4 ай бұрын

Olvidan el caso de los submarinos agosta, cuando trabajamos en español con transferencia de tecnología, lo primero que hicieron, ¡fue hacer que los submarinos idénticos fueran más baratos! Esta es la razón por la cual Dassault no cometerá este error .... Sal del proyecto. ¡Esto es exactamente lo que Dassault está esperando, haciéndolos dar responsabilidad!

@Voyageursdelanuit

4 ай бұрын

@@axelscharf2415 If if you don't worry, I think the project will plant either this year, or 2025 !!! Anyway, it's simple, the Germans don't want it anymore, and that's good because Dassault wants to release the Germans !!!

@NATObait

Ай бұрын

Is Spain, Germany and France all giving 33% of the funding? France want to build the engines too. So the project is a tricky balancing act.

Tempest is way further on.

Team Tempest would never combine with the French as they would want to run the programme and force it to be carrier capable making it very expensive. Tempest will be built not sure the French one will be.

@squirepraggerstope3591

3 ай бұрын

Quite! Not only as the existing UK/Italy/Japan/Sweden combination is already near-optimal, but because we'd in any case be unwise to accept German involvement and even more, France's. Primarily as admitting either state would open the door to ever increasing meddling by the loathsome EU, plus in the French case, Paris' usual efforts in any multinational project to dictate purely French requirements to all the other participants.

@mangalores-x_x

2 ай бұрын

@@squirepraggerstope3591 There is no Sweden in there. They left.

@squirepraggerstope3591

2 ай бұрын

​@@mangalores-x_x Correct! My bad. Their own NATIONAL requirements being sufficiently distinct (single engined/lower unit cost/etc, etc), the Swedes have characteristically opted NOT to emulate an arrogant little Gallic snit and try to issue diktats to their partners in hope of obliging them to fund variants for which they have no requirement. So Sweden is going solo and has gone to Saab + GKN to assess the concept options. I wish Team Sweden EVERY success and predict a genuinely effective 6th Gen Swedish plane, recognisable as taking forward the success enjoyed rightly with Gripen, when FCAS has gone "phut!"... ..Grace of the by now, near-routine wee noxious detonation of trapped excess fumes from the project's badly maintained fosse septique. Which is where many complex multinational defence projects end up, when the other team members over-optimistically let France in to metaphorically lock herself in the loo and sit ..er? 'sulking' when she can't get all her own way.🤣🤣

@squirepraggerstope3591

2 ай бұрын

@@mangalores-x_x They're going solo in view of their distinct national requirements and have Saab + GKN on board. They'll succeed and I wish Sweden total success! Not least as unlike the French, they have characteristically NOT attempted instead to issue diktats to their partners in hope of browbeating them into diverting joint project resources into developing variants for which only France has any requirement whatsoever.

sweden should join france for scaf programm. Sweden has already built the first autonomous stealth drone Neuron with france . It was logic to build the stealth scaf.

US have 2 sixth generation aircraft projects building now. The USAF prototype flew in September 2020 and the Navy won't be far behind. Also add B 21 to the list and Europe is way behind.

@padawan1754

5 ай бұрын

USAF tested a prototype but not a 6 gen. jet there will be none before 2030😂😂

@NATObait

5 ай бұрын

​@@padawan1754B21 is in trials now. That is the first 6th generation.

@B-A-L

5 ай бұрын

Add universal healthcare all over Europe and USA isn't even in the running.

@saundyuk

5 ай бұрын

@@NATObait No offence but B21 is a stealth bomber. It basically needs to get where it needs to go unobserved and drop a bomb. Not quite the same thing as a 6th gen air superiority fighter jet.

@NATObait

5 ай бұрын

@@saundyuk No offence taken.

Yes I confirm the rumors that increase more and more like what Germany will leave the SCAF ..... to move towards partnerships with the Americans around f35 ..... But this is excellent news for French industry, so we give off the Germans and it is they who bear responsibility it is all benefit !!!

@NotUnymous

5 ай бұрын

Sooo, you dont get why France wanted to do this in a partnership in the first place?

That's not how the future Tempest will look like. Very old photo the cockpit want be as raised at the front. And want look like as shown. Obviously.

Team Tempest is too ready by 2035 with a prototype flying by 2028 apparently !!!!!!!

@chethemerc7841

5 ай бұрын

Maybe even sooner. The project is coming along well.

@RaySqw785

2 ай бұрын

@@chethemerc7841 The United Kingdom has not shared how it plans on developing and delivering new technologies tied to the sixth generation future fighter and associated system of systems known as the Global Combat Air Programme (GCAP) with Italian manufacturer and partner Leonardo, according to company CEO Roberto Cingolani. Led by Italy, Japan and the UK, GCAP is set to launch its “core platform” or next generation fighter plane development phase next year, but a frustrated Cingolani told reporters that he has still not seen “anything specifically as a capability from the UK” and suggested the roles of industry partners were not made “very clear” from a competence assessment, designed to define manufacturing responsibilities. He said work with partners must be “transparent” and “collaborative,” adding “it’s impossible to have a 20-year-long consortium with the idea that we don’t share the information.” For a start, the joint team “should make a serious competence assessment, and then I think there will be surprises,” he said during a press briefing last week to launch Leonardo’s 2024-2028 industrial plan.

Labor and production are expensive in Germany. It also creates problems in marketing the aircraft produced. (Just like Saudi Arabia and Turkiye blocked in Eurofighter) Turkiye should participate in the Tempest project. Both the production cost decreases and the project gains a reliable partner.

@bertjilk3456

6 ай бұрын

Reliable? You must be joking. 😂

@user-mk5vs1up2z

5 ай бұрын

Gipsyturks not allowed

@mothmagic1

5 ай бұрын

@@bertjilk3456 My thinking exactly. Turkey sides with whoever is most expedient for them with no thought for anyone else.

Previous experience has shown the French as less than desirable partners in such programs.

Germany is not going to leave the FCAS for tempest it does not make sense.

@cjjk9142

7 ай бұрын

They will. French are impossible to work with

@d.a.g.c961

7 ай бұрын

@@cjjk9142 They have already spend to much money to withdraw.

@vladimirnaydenov8563

6 ай бұрын

​@@cjjk9142 You are right Impossible to work with french Just fuck 😊

@jelepettos1894

6 ай бұрын

​@@cjjk9142but germany want a good fighter, they won't get one with uk. They should stick with France and trust them to do an awesome fighter. With uk they will end up needing to buy an american fighter to complete their fleet.

@cjjk9142

6 ай бұрын

@@jelepettos1894 what are you talking about, uk worked on a 5 th gen jet (f35) whike france was busy making a more expensive 4th gen jet. uk has some of the finest plane engineering in the world, you are so ignorant 🤦. Germany isn't invited anyway as they are a pain in the ass to collaborate with

Germany is already in the fcas program

@mangalores-x_x

Ай бұрын

There is constant rumour about this in British press while actual news is: - France and Germany have worked out their differences - Airbus and Dassault have worked out their differences - German parliament passed full funding for the next step of FCS - Belgium joined FCAS - Sweden left Tempest It can still go wrong but Tempest does not look any less at risk than FCAS and current commitments indicate France and Germany are fully commited to it. The same can be said about MGCS which was declared dead multiple times by the British press and equally was announced to have passed its next milestone and move ahead with both countries funding ot.

the English Tempest project in which Italy and subsequently Japan joined is now almost closed, with equal participation shares between the three countries... England 33.33%, Italy 33.33%, Japan 33.33%. Sweden was initially included and then left the project.

Whatever happens do not under any circumstances partner with France!

Well, the way I see it, if Germany 🇩🇪 and Belgium 🇧🇪 step in to help the role. It's no big loss. And if Germany 🇩🇪 decides to throw their hat in with England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇬🇧 Sweden 🇸🇪 and Japan 🇯🇵. Then it's a win-win either way. After all, all those nations need each other's help to develop a 6th generation fighter Unlike the United States 🇺🇸 Russia 🇷🇺 and China 🇨🇳 who are able to develop their own fighters without help from other Nations 😂😂.

@NATObait

Ай бұрын

Tempest has three nations 🇮🇹🇯🇵🇬🇧 FCAS has three 🇫🇷🇩🇪🇪🇸 at the moment Belgium have stated they want an involvement in the FCAS project ( if Germany left ) but France declared only as an ' Observer ' so that looks a non starter. Sweden stated the projects were not in line with them . Saudi Arabia was mentioned as wanting to join Tempest but that would be mainly as a financial backer and Japan are distinctly against the proposal. How much communality will their be in the Japanese design v the European is unsure, perhaps it will be like the Horizon Class ships of Italy and France that are cousins not twins. Wait and see.

The Tempest project was not supposed to be a practical 5th/6th generation mass production aircraft development project. The purpose of the Tempest Project was for the participating countries to bring their technologies together to research and develop the technologies and knowledge necessary for next-generation aircraft, and to manufacture demonstration aircraft. The development of a full-scale commercial aircraft was shifted to the GCAP, with the three countries of the United Kingdom, Japan, and Italy contributing capital, and the direction of sharing the development work among the major companies of each country was also indicated. The GCAP is currently in the process of sharing information among the countries and reaching a consensus on the plan. All three countries have already introduced and deployed the F-35 (A/B), and the aircraft to be developed under the GCAP is absolutely expected to be capable of conducting operations in coordination with the F-35. Above all, the United States, which has concluded a high-level defense agreement while providing the F-35, has agreed to the GCAP development plan and is certain to be involved in the provision of datalink/satellite communication antennas and technological development. The GCAP project will be led by Rolls-Royce, BAE Systems, Leonardo, Mitsubishi Electric, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, IHI, and others. The relationship between the countries was established because they have very similar performance requirements due to geopolitical issues related to next-generation fighter aircraft, and it is highly likely that the operational performance requirements of Germany and France will be different, so even if Germany leaves the FCAS program, it will not participate in the GCAP program. (Germany seems to be moving forward with the introduction of the F-35.)

@glynnwright1699

6 ай бұрын

All true, but where does that leave the German aerospace industry?

@fromfareastindy8234

6 ай бұрын

@@glynnwright1699 No matter what Germany chooses, the world's largest military alliance, NATO, exists, and the latest technology will enter Germany in some form as long as its relationship with the U.S. in the form of nuclear sharing is not undermined. To begin with, military aircraft is a far less cost-effective business than civilian aircraft. It is certainly an attractive business in terms of developing the latest military technology, but the cost has become too high today. The aerospace industry, including UAVs, is likely to change in the future. At the same time, it will become clear that fighter jets and other military aircraft are only a part of the military system. Even if the FCAS is cancelled and Germany does not participate in the GCAP, I believe that a wise Germany will be able to maintain its aerospace industry. As the GCAP shows, it is no longer the time for a single nation to develop state-of-the-art fighter aircraft. At the same time, all weapons must be networked and interact with each other. This is one opportunity. For example, if Germany focuses on the development of UAVs, this will benefit many countries and open up new avenues for the German defense industry. The options are wider than ever. The German aerospace industry still appears to be full of potential.

Amusing plug for the FCAS with the likely much more capable UK/Japan/Italy/Sweden project's 6th gen fighter getting a brief mention at the end... ...despite the vid ostensibly being about Germany wisely contemplating an attempt to drop the link with France and join the Tempest project instead! While more importantly i.m.h.o, NONE of the four (UK/Japan/Italy/Sweden) "Tempest" project participants should even consider merging effort with the probably quite inferior FCAS prog.

@apvial

3 ай бұрын

What makes you think FCAS would be inferior? Dassault is top dog in Europe. There is no debate there.

@squirepraggerstope3591

3 ай бұрын

@@apvial To start, Dassault is NOT "top dog" anywhere. Secondly, France has zero experience or involvement in ANY project beyond its own 4 / 4.5 gen Rafale, which is somewhat inferior even to its contemporary, the other 4.5 gen European multirole, Typhoon... which multinational project the French (naturally, as usual) left when they couldn't get all their own way and dictate to the other participants.

@apvial

3 ай бұрын

@@squirepraggerstope3591 They sure are. Find me better than Dassault and Thales in Europe. I'll wait. France left the eurofighter project because the partners refused to design a carrier capable plane, which 1) makes no sense when it comes to European power projection and 2) was incompatible with France's strategic interests in the Atlantic, Pacific, and Indian Ocean theaters. But yeah everyone just said the French were being assholes. Guess what... in hindsight the French were right and the Rafale's track record speaks for itself.

@squirepraggerstope3591

3 ай бұрын

@@apvial Bae Systems, MBDA and Leonardo, to identify just three major defence-related concerns involved in GCAP, all have far more relevant experience with 5th-Gen+ aircraft design and related systems than Dassault can yet boast. While Thales is not tied so closely to purely French requirements re air or sea-based systems at all, as anyone familiar with RN procurement can testify. Additionally, while babbling on only about Europe, you seem to be conveniently forgetting that only FCAS is a wholly and specifically "European" venture. The UK/Italy/Sweden team now also includes JAPAN and thus other world-beating concerns such as Mitsubishi. I confess, however, that I love your comedic whine about poor little upset France's customary piqued bail-out of previous multinational projects with specific reference to Eurofighter Typhoon, because on that occasion the other participants wouldn't be browbeaten into funding a marinised, CATOBAR-suitable variant that NONE WHATSOEVER of THEM even required. While if you're really so very confident about Paris' ability to take FCAS through to a successful conclusion, one can only wonder at your earlier responses to my first comment? One which after all, merely opines that neither Germany nor especially, given its previous appalling record as a partner in analogous projects, France (and thus in this age, the loathsome EU central EUrocracy), should be left any crack to slither through into participation in the entirely distinct Tempest/GCAP venture. Though I merrily admit that one factor I perceive, besides just France's history in other projects or the repugnant EU central org's vile m.o.'s in general, is the disappearingly low probability of our own totally spineless and treacherous London political/Civil Service establishment EVER standing up for British interests against either Paris OR Brussels. Something with possible consequences that outweigh even my own view that it's now Britain which SHOULD (but our odious metro-elites certainly won't fight for it or fund it willingly) require the development of a fully marinised variant of GCAP/Tempest (a "Sea Tempest", say) for CATOBAR operation from the post-project-Ark-Royal 'hybridised' QE carriers alongside the STOVL F35-B and several large UAV platforms.

@squirepraggerstope3591

3 ай бұрын

@@apvial PS; why should we British and for that matter yet more so, the USA, be remotely willing to defer or even countenance France's ongoing pretensions to uphold ITS global maritime interests? Especially as 1) It's supposed to be a primarily continental European land power operating 1st as a NATO member. NOT to cut it's army so it can still go swanning around the globe like the Ruritanian comic opera ghost of a maritime 'great power'. Especially while it still expects Britain instead to stupidly deploy more significant land forces to Europe at need! 2) It remains absolutely wedded to its odious doctrine of "Strategic autonomy", which in truth is just code for self-serving EUropean denial of and attempts to undermine the USA's primacy.

Wah Ra urusanku sing penting koe tak omongi jajal perang Kon mandek pemerintah Indonesia tetep merem pora Karo aku...aku jaluk opo ???

Cooperation with US-made weapons such as AWACS and Aegis ships is important. France is inferior to Britain in this area.

@cfoa13

5 ай бұрын

uk destroyed his aerospace industry to the benefit of usa , so let me laugh.

@kytsunekami

4 ай бұрын

I would rather say that France is sovereign and less subject to the United States than UK

@ZuulGatekeeper

4 ай бұрын

@@cfoa13 UK aerospace industry is the second largest in the world.

@cfoa13

4 ай бұрын

secoond largest you mean france ariane / esa ( E.U. ) or you mean the companies you sold to usa and E.U compagnies and i hope you know spaceX is american.

France should also go all in with UK and Germany, then they could actually build something together more effectively. Put ego's aside.

@mangalores-x_x

Ай бұрын

that actually would be the best solution. But Brexit and all that... heck even without it national egos would have already been difficult enough. But Brexit is probably the main reason Germany went with France instead of with UK because Europe's unity and stability is essentially Germany's primary and possibly only clear geostrategic goal.

FCAS program hasn't got off the drawing board as of yet plus France just take over and do things to benefit france that's why Germany and Spain want to join Team Tempest !!!!!!!! I'm also hoping there will be a carrier version of the Tempest 6th Gen Fighter jet with that German Italian Japanese Swedish pilots could all serve on the British Carriers as and when needed.

@BS-vm5bt

6 ай бұрын

FCAS is carrier capable not GCAP. The main problem for france is that germany does not want the fighter to be carrier capable. This is the exact same senario that happened with the eurofighter. France wants to build their own fighters for their carriers while the UK wants to import from America. The uk will lose their own ability to build carrier fighters. Since it is losing the experience to build such fighters. France currently is the only european nation capable of building carrier based fighters with the Rafael m. The uk will most likely import a large portion of aircrafts from america(NGAD carrier capable fighter). Or maybe the uk won't have any lose the ability to produce carriers aswell since the uk is losing the ability to build fighters for those carriers.

@NATObait

6 ай бұрын

France can guarantee an order for about 50 carrier aircraft for its Navy. Germany don't want an aircraft carrier and Spain are ok with a small one ( F35 B ). France are planning a 75000t carrier as it wants a bigger than Rafale aircraft. But any aircraft that is carrier capable needs good low speed handling. That becomes a design feature that influences/ compromises other possibilities. Perhaps that conclusion is what Germany are not happy about , along with the Dassault must be in charge .... you just pay attitude. The possibility of Germany walking away from and joining the Tempest Project is paper talk ( Zero ). Germany have Vetoed the sale of 48 Typhoons to Saudi Arabia gifting an opportunity for Dassault to secure a deal likewise a Veto on Turkey to purchase secondhand aircraft from Spain and the UK has now happened . Who treats partners like that this should have been a majority vote or pay compensation. Italy, UK and Japan have now just signed an agreement giving a future pathway to produce it's next generation aircraft. France can keep it's flip flopping German partner and it's Veto but I suspect that is the first compromise Mr. Trippier will want binned. Who wants to be handcuffed to Germany over it's recent performance.?

@Then.72

6 ай бұрын

@@BS-vm5btthe UK is now building with other nations and the UK invented most carrier technology

@teggart123

5 ай бұрын

This was such a good read! Can I pester you to please explain the difference between both projects ? Is one looking better than the other? Or is it not post to tell? I’m a noob to the topic but your comment told me more in 20 seconds than an hour of googling 😂

@teggart123

5 ай бұрын

This was such a good read! Can I pester you to please explain the difference between both projects ? Is one looking better than the other? Or is it not post to tell? I’m a noob to the topic but your comment told me more in 20 seconds than an hour of googling 😂

Probably the worst researched video I have seen in years. For your enlightenment; FCAS is an aircraft intended to enter service from 2035, gradually replacing the Eurofighter Typhoon. It is being developed as part of the Future Combat Air System (FCAS) program by a consortium known as Team Tempest

@mathuix1183

6 ай бұрын

Probably the worst comment under a KZread video 😉 There are two FCAS programs : the european one and the british one (same acronym, same meaning). This video is obviously referring to the first. Love from France 🥰

Yes germany should indeed join the Tempest and f off!!!

since uk leave ue , the tempest is a programme born to fail , why because of the creation of the futur european defence at some point it will be difficult to share high tech with an non member.

@saundyuk

5 ай бұрын

No offence, but our tech is just fine thanks - and it's the EU that's been trying to tempt the UK to join a defence treaty.

@cfoa13

5 ай бұрын

you said our tech but i can said the same because is too mutch interconnected and this is what i mean in my comment the problem is money an eu budjet will be far away from an uk budjet in R&D if uk play alone don't forget what happened with uk aerospace industry uk was a leader but uk gouv at that time destroyed it to the benefit of usa industry, And right now EU politics hope uk come back this is why they want an defence treaty but think in 10 years if uk play solo wwhat do you think willbe in the head of a single european army europe is going federal and it make me feel sad.

@saundyuk

5 ай бұрын

@@cfoa13 I sympathise, we've been saying for some time that Federalisation was the EU's main goal, but everyone kept saying we were scaremongering. As for us playing solo and someone else being at the head of a single European army - whatever makes you think if we'd stayed that would have been us - or even that we want to lead a single European army? That is the dream of others in Europe (i.e. the French). It was never our dream. We just wanted to be in a trade block - not a Federation. We've already had our Empire. And quite frankly good riddance to it.

@mrsentencename7334

4 ай бұрын

@@cfoa13 We never agreed to a EU super state nor do we want it. Thats how you get turned into 'economic zone 3' by the WEF

Britain will have the best 6th gen fighter 🇬🇧

Deutschen 'raus. Immer die gleiche Komödie. Einsame vollenden wir das FCAS. !Tambien gracias a los Espagnoles por cierto ! And this will be a sea-going aircraft.

抄襲中國

UK great air industry country

Imagine if we Europeans all joined as 1 to create a new jet :(

@mothmagic1

5 ай бұрын

Never happen, France hates working with anyone else unless they are in charge because they always think they can do better. Frequently finding that the scheme the project they stayed away from out performs their own.

@NATObait

5 ай бұрын

France and UK are partners in Scalp/Storm Shadow and that has proved effective over in Ukraine and they are now building a replacement. Meteor is also a European collaboration. France can partner forget the jingoism.

@user-aero68

5 ай бұрын

@@mothmagic1 France joined the EF programme with the agreement it would deliver a carier and nuclear capable aircraft. They left the EF programme when it became clear this would not happen. Are you implying with your last sentence that the EF outperforms the Rafale? Other than for speed and climb rate, the Rafale outperforms the EF in pretty much every other aspect. EF's speed and climb rate have a lot to do with it being initially designed as an interceptor, which was not the case for the Rafale which was designed to be omni/multirole from the start.

@user-aero68

5 ай бұрын

I think its best to have some healthy competition. A single jet may be great, or it could end up being designed by committee which is usually a disaster. We need to keep our capabilities healthy and everyone working on a single jet risks too much dilution of knowledge/capability/experience.

@user-aero68

5 ай бұрын

@@NATObait Yes, also the Franco-Swedish 155mm Bonus shells for ex.