This video 100% deserves a follow up. This was immensely helpful, but I feel like only the surface was scratched here

@BigCowProductions

Жыл бұрын

Same

@emeraldcityelicitor2281

Жыл бұрын

Yes, like you could go on about all these travel businesses themselves and how their workings and details affect things; since this video was more focused on the service they provide. Like even going over the ownership of a travel company can have so many implications! Are they fully independent? Are they beholden to or spun off from a larger trade company? Are they a service maintained by The Crown?

@james35813

Жыл бұрын

Yup. Part 2 please

@toufexisk

Жыл бұрын

Would love a part 2

Just a correction: netches aren't transportation in Morrowind, they're cattle. You're thinking of silt striders

@rcschmidt668

Жыл бұрын

That would be funny, though. Just imagine... 😂

Gamedev Adventures made a good view on Morrowind and it highlighted some of the same points in this video. The restriction of destinations ingrained into each mode of "fast travel" transport provides texture to a world, reminding you of the geography and factions at the very least. What I love is how video games and TTRPGs can give each other ideas like this.

If you do a follow-up video, I'd like to bring up two interesting talking points present in one of the D&D 5e adventure modules that you may want to pick at. First, the odd state of Baldur's Gate's laws. In the city of Baldur's Gate in the Forgotten Realms, it is illegal to transport wagons as well as horses or other beasts of burden through the city. A convenient road does not exist nearby that circumvents the city, and some powerful people like to ensure it stays that way. The reason for this is that there are many porters for hire and wagon / animal traders at each of the city's gates, likely working for some company that manages them which answers to said powerful nobles, I imagine. It is usually cheaper for merchants to sell their animals and wagons at one of the gates, pay to have their goods transported to the opposite side of the city, and then buy new wagons and animals on the other side. What are some other good examples of profiteering that travelers in a fantasy setting might encounter that they cannot simply swing a sword at to make go away? The second part I want to bring up is that once they've crossed, it is commonplace for merchants seeking to travel on to form caravans without a head organizer, guild, or mercenary company being involved. Each merchant is expected by tradition to hire a few bodyguards, with the idea that the group will be well protected if everyone upholds this responsibility. When enough merchants have gathered, they all set out together. I would assume that historically something like this didn't happen very often, as people tend to gravitate towards organizational methods with a leader at the top, and surely some company or guild would have ensured they had a firm hand on regulating this kind of thing. The part that makes this a bit more unique is that the area immediately north of Baldur's Gate is considered to be very treacherous despite being a major road. Supposedly a torch lit at night visible for miles and miles away could easily attract trolls and other dangerous monsters. Maybe in a fantasy setting, no company would want to shoulder the responsibility of organizing travel through so dangerous an area which allowed for this tradition of independent merchants to form? What are your thoughts on how the very nature of a fantasy setting might uniquely influence or even dismantle the various systems that existed in historical travel between cities?

Like others have stated: I feel like you've barely scratched the surface on this video. I'd be interested to see you put together a video on a made up small city and its various factions. How they're all tied together like a spider web would be major fun to watch.

Maaaan, I wish your videos were like 3x as long. Good stuff.

Thanks for the video! FYI, you may have forgotten to put your sponsor link in the description.

@DungeonMasterpiece

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for bringing that to my attention. It's correct now

Good evening Barren De Ropp I’m a dungeon master… thanks for keeping this series going! ❤

Welcome back and congratulations to you and the Baroness.

You mentioned Morrowind, but missed the best part! I think that game does this PERFECTLY, if you look online there is a map of all the fast travel networks. Mage's guild teleports, silt striders, ships, perpylons, divine intervention (goes to temples). Each with their own methods of access, unlocking, and mastery. An experienced player is maybe 5 minutes at most from any given location in the whole map if they know all the tricks. Making these methods of travel a reward in themselves.

@NonLogicUser

Жыл бұрын

Travel being a reward is a brilliant idea. Imagine if D&D backgrounds (or their backstory) had an impact on access to these networks?

@Twisted_Logic

Жыл бұрын

Also: the floating jellyfish are more akin to cattle in Morrowind. Caravan service is on the backs of two-story tall fleas that make whale calls!

Those are all good pitches but how do I practically do this at my table? A follow-up video would be interesting, thank you!

Did you know the Harpers faction has teleport networks all along the sword coast in forgotten realms that also interconnect with Sigil?

With the newest TV series on asoiaf hotd I think you should make a geopolitical analyses on its world. One example of interesting worldbuilding is the eastern coast of an entire continent having to maneuver itself across a strait between dorne and the stepstoned. One of the houses on the show, house Velaryon was very dependant on trait this were able to convince the king to military intervene in the area due to high tolls enforced by the local government

This was a good video - very thoughtful. I particularly liked the USSR and Japanese Empire examples. Food for thought on my world building. On an unrelated note, I thought you'd already hit 50k subscribers?

Has anyone else used the idea of paying the PC's to travel? I have NPC's occasionally hire adventurers; as guards for trade caravans and outriders for settlers wagon trains. I hadn't really thought about the Geopolitical angle; it was usually a mutual beneficial arrangement, for shorter overland journey. Whoever they are get guards, relatively cheap and the heroes get to avoid any "Imperial Entanglements" as it were.

@macoppy6571

Жыл бұрын

Geopolitical consideration is intended to add to verisimilitude. Random encounters slow down a game that gives rewards based on Milestones. PCs that level up by experience need Random encounters to close the power-gap with the BBEG. Indiana Jones "red line" fast travel is best for narrative driven game styles, but is a poor fit for West Marches style games.

@mathewstoker2131

Жыл бұрын

@@macoppy6571 Yarp, I have a group that are busy with IRL, considerations with a couple of dedicated players. So an open table, fits best for them. Helps with the prep for shorter more contained arcs too.

3:37 is a Matrix glitch moment for me. I was playing Skyrim not three hours ago, and I started and ended my session in Fort Sungard. Spooky...

Tabletop Notch does an excellent job making travel interesting and beautifully shows that it is an interconnected living world.

This is exactly what I’ve been looking for advice on, so thanks for that! Your channel is literally nothing but bangers

That's why Morrowind got travel right. You had to learn various connective networks of travel using various mean; gondoliers, teleportation, and the iconic Silt Striders. Each point of connection only had several options and there were both local and regional networks at play.

I enjoy all of Dungeon Masterpiece videos

Nice video! In my world the Dwarves have a massive tunnel network connecting their holds in the central mountain range of the continent. Great for caravans, as it let's you bypass the mountains and move relatively safely. However, to get in, you either need to be a dwarf or travel with a dwarf. None of the party were dwarves, and so they had to sign on as mercenary caravan guards to travel with a caravan heading to their destination.

that was an owl-DEER, 1000% more interested

Amazingly insightful. Great video.

Side note - I love the art you find and display throughout. Inspirational.

Very interesting to think about. The point about Moscow highways gives me an interesting idea for a smuggler faction who try to overcome that specific issue. Side note. I would love to see a video talking about how rivers trade actually worked. Namely how did you travel up river.

@theophrastusbombastus1359

Жыл бұрын

Wind and oars

Thanks! OK, so you haven't hooked me yet with a membership or joining the Patreon. However, you've got a solid Oeuvre that, IMO, no one else is working with. I know the whole 5e thing is hot, but it'd be interesting to see your body of work go into Scifi, cyberpunk, and other genera. Stay at it, it's good stuff.

Your contact is so on point

Putting out quality content. You are in fact the best. I recommend rewatching your video and this time look at how the books in the back make it look like you are wearing earnings.

THANK YOU!

This is a super interesting line of thought. Really makes me think about my campaign world (modified Eberron), and how to deal with travel (instead of simply saying, "you take the lightning rail"). I echo the sentiment of a follow-up video. This is cool stuff.

A nice and insightful tube.

Great content to bring a new dimension to my games. I love the real-life examples! Being able to point to some of those is a wonderful way to disarm the players complaining that Im just making stuff up to drain cash LOL Thank you!

Thanks. Very helpful

Y'know 🤔 the name "Pathfinder" has always made me curious how roads were made and maintained in the wilderness.

Souper useful and stuff I'd never have thought of on my own

Geezer here... All wonderful points. I disagree on some of the prices but my setting is atypical. Gaming on.

Hell yeah this is a good video.

Five stars! lifestyles of the knowledgeable and well-read!

Very true!

The current 24 hour record for sailing is 766 nautical miles (882 statute). 600 miles a day of sailing would be unrealistically fast without magical assistance. 12 knots, or 288 nautical miles per day would be very fast, and assumes sailing technology and conditions that allow sailing 24 hours a day as opposed to "coasting".

@Seraphina-Rose

9 ай бұрын

Thank you for this. Ghosts of Saltmarsh has stats for different ships. A sailing ship can travel 5mph, or 120 miles per 24 hours, presumably in good conditions, which is the fastest listed.

Pretty sure you could write a world builder guide like Bob did with Delve or Slyflourish did with LazyDM books.

I absolutely love all of this. Unfortunately most groups do not get this deep in detail. Even I as a GM rarely find myself dipping into content I go this deep into.

Awesome!

Well done.

I like the ideas. Players have to work to earn access to a fast-travel network, and pay substantially for it, then hope nothing changes to interfere with it. But *when* something inevitably does, it's up to them to find solutions or another means of travel. It's either that or a hand-wave and "poof! you're there." And if they're not high enough level to do it themselves, that hand-wave can be hard to justify. Unless, of course, you and your players really don't want to waste time on the road just to get to the next adventure. but what fun is that?

Thx, Baron, I'm not prejudiced against Fast Traveling anymore!

Next video: How to not make a total slog out of departing from the newly arrived (in terms of days) Shade Enclave to Ascore, without throwing up one's hands and slinging a Shadow Walk scroll the party's way after they choose to go directly east, then north from Evereska. Outside of Myth Drannor and Undermountain, I'm not a big fan of gauntlets....especially when the most predominant encounters are Bedine which the 7th level party can barely communicate with, hordes of desert lizardmen-esque foes they can't contend with, and blue sodding dragons.....and that's before they get to a campaign map that offers nothing but frozen desert and swampland for half of its length (where the aforementioned scroll was offered as an after-thought by the "kind" Princes of Shade.....eh, a ring of teleportation, time travel, and familial relations to explain that part, lol.)

Netches in Morrowind are not airships. They're cattle.

Too easy to get stuck in the trap of assuming everything in your world should work in convenient and logical ways. This is great advice.

haha on a night i been discussing travel rules for about an hour

To make travel more engaging & quicker, what I’ve done is open up the floor to my players and say “you complete the journey, what happened along the way?”. I go around the table in turns and every player (including the DM, we’re players too!) gets to kick-off a scene of their choice, I open it to anything within reason. Some players want to roleplay, or come across a puzzle, or a combat. It helps reduce my session prep greatly. Not only has it yielded some fun stories, but it helps me make sure that the players are engaging in content they want to. The table loved it, and while it’s not for everyone, I wanted to share in case someone out there finds it of value.

What's everyone's thoughts on a waypoint travel system, ala Diablo or Path of Exile? I had an idea to supplement/replace the magic circle spell in a game into a system of physical stone circles that could be activated by a bracelet/necklace/totem once a day to open a portal to another (known) circle on the network (and to restrict it, only once a day). I got bogged down in the details of where to place these, why the were there, and how other groups/factions would use (and abuse) the system.

@kgoblin5084

Жыл бұрын

Some thoughts on this topic: One implication with anything teleport circle/pad system that must be dealt with is ironically space concerns... eg. does the teleport activate as soon as you step over the line? If so then there are practical limits & implications for the size of the teleport zone, where smaller is usually better, because the center of the zone becomes wasted space because nobody can touch it (or alternatively, they build platforms over the zone to drop into the center). Whereas if you can load up the zone with goods/people/donkeys & wagons, then tap the bracelet to activate the circle, bigger zones have a lot more utility. For moving folks efficiently, teleport on touch zones will also naturally tend to be designed in such a way that they can be entered from multiple directions simultaneously, so you can form a queue on each angle/side. Another practical consideration is how arrivals are handled... if 2 people go to the same destination at the same instant, what happens? Options include telefragging 1 or both, punting 1 into a 'holding' dimension, the teleport magically figuring out to to place each person safely, or sending 1 person to ANOTHER open teleporter. Telefragging implies the need for coordination & safety procedures, less the factions that control the network literally end up killing themselves. Obvious adventure hooks stemming from that could include rogue agents causing havoc with unauthorized use, factions 'blocking' teleporters by sending thru random junk, arcane rules where teleporters only function at certain times for certain destinations, that the party must then decipher. The holding dimension & 'smart placement' options, while safer, have their own interesting implications though. With the holding dimension, there is of course the nature of that dimension, & whether it's native denizens approve of 'layovers'. But more importantly, both imply that the teleporters themselves have some level of *intelligence* to handle safely delivering both travelers. Is that intelligence an imprisoned/enslaved demon, that can turn on it's masters? Does magic create some kind of ectoplasmic computer program? Who is actually defined the logic of that program then, & does that logic have bugs?

So I think this episode really highlights the fact that in 5e that there is absolutely _zero_ consistency in the world economy in the books we are provided, and as a result it sort of makes money/gold as just some stat you keep on your sheet that you occasionally need to deal with instead of something meaningful. I'd really like to see them flesh that out in 5.5e, because I think it could actually add to the game.

Anyone up for another game of Taxes and Tolls?

Meanwhile a teleportation circle costs 50 gp in components, or a permanently established one costs 18,250 gp. At the cost you said, only 37 customers ever would pay this thing off. That being said a 1000% increase in price does sound about accurate.

I wish you went a little more in depth about morrowind because it has the best fast travel system I’ve seen in a game

While I like this overview about the topic, an important question was not answered at the beginning, I think! "How to make travel not tedious?" Keep in mind, what players usually want from fast travel is not interesting plot hooks, but to get to the "good stuff" as fast as possible. If your players are not interested in turf wars between caravans, but want finally get to explore that megadungeon you promised them for months, it is pointless to insist on "geopolitics". The best overland travel system is still "let's skip it".

@Lycaon1765

Жыл бұрын

That's only true if you don't care about the journey.

Ah, I thought this video would be about how to make travel go faster without skipping the details in between. My players don't seem to care much for my wilderness exploration. Sure, they have fun beating up the local fauna, they'd been celebrating in the capitol after fulfilling a small prophecy and were getting antsy for combat. But they're only out here for one or two plot points, so anything like Helmed Horrors sticking out like a sore thumb in the evil swamp to hint at the presence of an organization with autonomous defenses (which they already know about), or the passing appearance of Shadows in the haunted forest to show that all is not right (except that they've already encountered them before, so the message has been sent and received) just don't get much emotional investment. At this rate, the only thing I can think of is to just not have encounters once they're sure of their objective, despite the fact they're traveling upwards of a week in the hostile, abandoned, unmapped frontier full of horrible creatures, just to get to where they're going; let alone however long it takes them to find their way back out.

@bigbrother787

Жыл бұрын

I like to try non-combat environmental encounters. How will they traverse a deep and poisonous swamp? Will they catch disease, perhaps they come across an infected NPC and can try to help or risk catching the disease themselves. Perhaps they will be stalked by something over the course of a few days and they can ambush it if they are paying attention. Maybe they come across lizard people fighting Kobolds and can negotiate peace in exchange for safe passage and a magical item/potion?

@BeaglzRok1

Жыл бұрын

@@bigbrother787 I can give it a shot, here's hoping that it doesn't come off as artificially making travel more difficult than difficult terrain. It shouldn't, they're level 10 with a Wizard and Cleric and literally cured an Otyugh of Ghoul Fever instead of just killing it, but I've always got that worry.

You talk often about costs. Can you make a video about rewards for players or opportunities for the players to earn the required money?

I, for one, am disappointed that Morrowind had Jellyfish airships in lore but it was never was executed in game. Silt Striders are cool, though. Paizo's Kingmaker AP hints at but later forgets about why players are doing what they are doing in the first place - AKA eliminating threats to transportation and opening over-land alternative routes to the river traffic relied on between different nations.

@kgoblin5084

Жыл бұрын

"I, for one, am disappointed that Morrowind had Jellyfish airships in lore but it was never was executed in game. Silt Striders are cool, though." Technical limitations are a harsh & insurmountable mistress. Of note, even the silt striders aren't actually animated or interactable, for the same reason... having an entity in a game world that large is not an easy task. You can probably still find commentary from Notch on how & why they implemented the Ender Dragon in Minecraft the way they did, which was dealing with similar issues.

Why walk when you can ride?

Just make your campaign centered on a single location, skip the issues with overland travel completely 10/10 simple as that

The best adventures are just getting to the dungeon. Plus in this day and age, most new adventurers dont think of what might be needed to explore a dungeon, ruins, caves, mountain passes, lairs, etc....Hmmmmm...like ropes, supplies, water, food, tarps....a wagon?? the adventurers never seem to pool limited funds, so they can stay out murder-hoboing local non human tribes longer, bring back more loot, actually put a wrench in DMs weather maliciousness or starving torture and they actually get to put a real effort into a deep underdark recon, or haul comrades bodies back to be resurrected. YAAAAAA TEAM. just watch out DM's will try to pillage your goods....burn the wagons..lol....i dont.....i want to see adventurers push there limitations/skills/abilities/class and see what these hairless monkey's will do if given half the chance to use tools. I found modules were then nasty pain in the butts, good side treks, place to test there meddle or where the good magic weapon/staff/etc is that will be helpful to ?????? be a better murder hobo..ya thats it......I found most characters liked that they then got a real chance to travel and interact with the campaign world....and more...then they could be lords, bandits, heroes, at war, trading, hunting, been hunted, seeking forbidden magics.......etc...etc or all. THAT. makes it where characters wants to see over the next horizon....and they shiver and shake when then need to travel near real badass villains or monster territories.....and which hints that maybe some day they will be the ones who do...or die trying. ......it seems like hard work. naaaaaaaa a quick and dirty map pens, note paper....and let the adventurers travel through the first scribbled draft of the campaign world map......focus on the themes that they like......and add bad asses as required....the adventure and campaign will do the rest as the murder hobos run rampant in it or die trying......it just gets better every-time they travel in the campaign setting/world/map...Dms if you over think it and create masterpieces ....the adventurers will not go there or do it unless you rail road them....its pretty typical.....so let them explore and weaver in your elements deviously and they should blended in as you like with effort....remember adventures ... need adventurers and a good storyteller. and then this vid will help alot to more with brainstorming creative juices in map draft version 2 in a nut shell...where more is good

200 GP to use the road? Doesn't seem right - how could the commoners even possibly manage to conduct trade, with those kinds of prices? Much more likely is that PC's get to travel for free in a caravan, so long as they agree to help defend the caravan from threats. At which point, the encounters write themselves.

@kgoblin5084

Жыл бұрын

"200 GP to use the road? Doesn't seem right - how could the commoners even possibly manage to conduct trade, with those kinds of prices?" 1. Trade is only conducted by rich merchants, with the necessary capital to pay the fees. This naturally creates factions as the merchant's contend with the aristocracy for power, & form mutual prejudice with the common rabble who they see themselves as being better than. 2. You already mentioned caravan's, composed of many people. Maybe the caravan as a whole pays the fee, with the members each contributing a portion. This implies travel is limited by the time investment to organize caravans.

Call me silly but 500 gold for teleport vs 300 a day for shipping. Teleporting seems worth the cost.

I can see how AI generated artwork has sped up your production. I'm not sure how I feel about the visual artefacts they contain, but at least for illustrative purposes they seem reasonable.

@DungeonMasterpiece

Жыл бұрын

I only use them when I can't find anything with a creative Commons lic.

And that's why I didn't allow my players to have an airship in a setting where a horseriding empire is the biggest political power.

He has do some about his hands; they do not stop moving the entire video, making them distracting and a whole lot annoying.

In my homebrew campaign world, sky ships are necessity if you don't have a sky ship you're town is a shit hole. In addition, the second reason why sky ships are important , folks still have issues is with dinosaurs, demon spawn prehistoric creatures, left over demons and hell spawns ect. Even though I did away with royalty and idiot nobility. All sky ship bosses pay a tax to the government. However your video has provided me with good reasons to flesh out fast travel geopolitical avenues more. For example, it will be wise for pcs take up contracts for small sky ship companies, Also the land travel such as caravans is dangerous in my campaign world, thanks to your video its gonna be expensive, for example 1000gold upfront for insurance then 4 silver a day. The insurance covers cost of damaged items, to pcs getting thrashed by demon spawned dinosaur

Speed it up? Don’t use Wilderness Survival. Use Snakes and Ladders.