The black man who was denied the loan was dressed exactly like Michael Douglas. I always thought that was interesting.

@maxwellpaynewell5305

Күн бұрын

There's a few other characters and extras in the film who are specifically dressed like him. The manager at the Whammyburger, for example. I didn't have time to talk about it in the video, but I was wondering what sort of things the film was implying by throwing in those other characters who should supposedly be on his level, in some way, since it's such an important part of the not economically viable man

How is it not obvious that Douglas plays a complete nutjob psychopath?

I expect a check in the mail for that impeccable drunk scot impression.

@maxwellpaynewell5305

3 күн бұрын

Once I get ad revenue, you can ask that again. The answer will still be no.

I'm so glad you mentioned James Huberty. When I learned about him as a teenager, I immediately thought of D-FENS, and it shaped how I think about the film in the years since.

@maxwellpaynewell5305

2 күн бұрын

I'm relieved to hear that I'm not the only person alive who knows about that incident. Gives me hope that even as America gets more and more used to mass shootings, we'll always know how devastating they are and always have been

I rarely watch the videos that youtube recomends with only a few views but damn this is good. Keep it up! subbed

@maxwellpaynewell5305

2 күн бұрын

Thank you very much for taking the gamble! I'm glad it paid off

The whole movie is a just a poor power fantasy for lower class workers. They got treated very poorly and once they get more power, most of the time in the workplace due to submissive acting towards the higher ups, they treat their fellow work fellows the same they got treated. It's a common power dynamic. You clearly pointed out his whole compassion for workers attitude is just a selfish act to justify his reasoning. It's just an act people do pick up. Talk shit behind your boss but act friendly in front of him. Btw, that's not just theory. I'm working class myself and I saw stuff like that all the time in different workplaces.

@mb2776

2 күн бұрын

My experience right now at my current workplace, cleaning and washing of work clothes facility, I've even seen workers go so far to not help better their work enviroment like a better AC cause our workplace is hot and dusty like hell, but rather stay with their bosses to maybe get a small better treatment in the future. It hurts our whole work enviroment and it hurts our solidarity.

@maxwellpaynewell5305

Күн бұрын

Solidarity is the one word I probably should have brought up at some point during the video. There was plenty more I could have said about D-FENS' class-hostile attitude concerning people equal to and below his status that unfortunately got left to the wayside during the process of writing the script. All of that said, I hope his is an attitude that we see less of in the coming years, as it becomes more and more obvious that the super wealthy have already united against the middle and lower classes

You've done a great job. It's such a shame youtuber's like critical drinker have such a wide outreach with their superficial child-tantrum-like takes that only serve to further division and hatred within our society for a quick buck.

@maxwellpaynewell5305

Күн бұрын

The primary solace I take with people like him is knowing how little longevity their videos have. When people that care realize how little substance there is, they leave. But people that don't care have no reason to rewatch a video that doesn't do anything but repeat tired talking points, which means he needs to constantly make more shallow content lest his childish audience grow bored of his antics. It's a grave you're stuck in the moment you start digging it.

@ArkadyTunguska

4 сағат бұрын

@@maxwellpaynewell5305 You pointed out exactly what happened with me. I liked his videos for a while but got bored because he's just complaining about the same thing over and over again

"He can't be the bad guy, he's the main character!" --- some idiot, probably

Just catched the recommendation, I won't be able to watch the movie for the first time now without this analysis on mind, but it was good

@maxwellpaynewell5305

23 сағат бұрын

Don't worry, there's a lot that happens that I didn't talk about much in the video, mainly Prendergast's character and the whole situation at the police station as the events unfold. So hopefully I won't have tainted your first watch by too much

It's a shame no one can talk about the critical drinker on this platform without his fans descending on the comment section like locusts descending upon Egypt. Maybe if they actually watched the video before commenting they'd see how you directly critique his arguments. Will leave a like.

@maxwellpaynewell5305

Күн бұрын

Thank you very much! Honestly, my biggest question is what there even is to be a fan of. He doesn't seem particularly charismatic, from what I've watched of him. If anything, it seems like his "fans" are just people who share his opinions. Either way, I'm happy to have them leave any comments they like. Engagement is engagement, after all

This deserves more views.

@maxwellpaynewell5305

Күн бұрын

Thank you very much!

This is actually so good I would have never guessed that this only had a little under 200 views

@maxwellpaynewell5305

2 күн бұрын

Thank you very much! That was definitely the intent lol, I don't want having smaller numbers to be an excuse for putting in less effort

@Bluestarsun

2 күн бұрын

@@maxwellpaynewell5305bro I’m six minutes in and this is better than most commentators on this app, keep up the amazing work

Thought that the interplay between the home-videos/tapes scenes almost shows the side of himself that could have been better, and the side of himself that chose to be worse. That in some way it was showing us that both sides had a chance, but he made his choices in the end.

@maxwellpaynewell5305

Күн бұрын

That would very much feed into the tragic nature of his story. Even if it would've complicated things more, it would definitely have tugged my heartstrings if he had shown even a little regret or remorse toward his family on the dock, especially if he had brought up the tapes. Unfortunately, as you said, he made his choices and seems intent on living with them

When I first watched Falling Down I at first sympathised with D-FENS but I thought it had become pretty clear towards the end that the guy was mentally unstable and not a good person, this video goes way deeper into just how bad he is and made me think. Nice video bro

@maxwellpaynewell5305

3 сағат бұрын

Thank you very much!

Liked, commented and subscribed. Feeding the algo and I look forward to more of your work.

@maxwellpaynewell5305

23 сағат бұрын

Thank you very much!

High quality shit man! Keep it up

@maxwellpaynewell5305

2 күн бұрын

Thank you very much, I plan to

Great commentary on a movie I watched ages ago and didn't comprehend, at the time, the depths of it. Revisiting this movie through your analysis was well worth it. I hope you get a lot more subscribers. Great job!

@maxwellpaynewell5305

2 күн бұрын

Thank you very much! I'm glad I was able to reveal some of the depth this film has to offer, and I hope that if you decide to rewatch it yourself, you find something even I wasn't able to see in this video

Wow... Thank you for this

I believe that he was just middle class or even lower middle class not upper middle class hence living with his mother.

@maxwellpaynewell5305

23 сағат бұрын

That makes sense. I might have missed it, but one thing I was wondering about in the film was how long ago he had been divorced compared (his ex might have mentioned that to the police officer, now that I think about it), because that might have meant he was living at his mother's house while saving up to buy a new house before he got laid off, which happened a month before the movie begins. Depending on how those things line up, I could absolutely see him as not being quite as wealthy I had imagined him being. Part of it was me assuming that, as a defense contractor, he was already making a decent amount of money before things went bad, but that may have been an incorrect assumption too

Fuckin finally. Someone who gets that the protagonist isn't a "good guy".

@maxwellpaynewell5305

2 күн бұрын

I'm equally glad to see that not everyone needs to be told this information

@fuckamericanidiot

2 күн бұрын

Is he a bad guy?

This was awesome! Bravo!

@maxwellpaynewell5305

Күн бұрын

Thank you very much!

Is anyone really surprised that Critical Drinker looks at D-FENS and goes "Yeah, he's not that bad"? This was a really well done video and it honestly deserves the views that The Drinker's videos get.

@maxwellpaynewell5305

23 сағат бұрын

Thank you very much! For the moment, I'm more than happy getting this many views with basically my second serious video on the channel. But I do hope this gets spread wide enough to make people that watch him think twice about his points

@Kaltagstar96

23 сағат бұрын

@@maxwellpaynewell5305 Granted, while I've never seen a full one of Drinker's vids, I've heard snippets of him on stuff like this and videos from HelloFutureMe and that's enough to make me not want to bother. I'm hoping that more videos like this about movies and the like come through on the channel.

@Kaltagstar96

23 сағат бұрын

@@maxwellpaynewell5305 I hope that this leads to you getting more exposure, this is the first video of yours that I've seen but I'd love to see more content like this from you.

I think you brought up some good poins I hadn't thought of before, while others I think might be character misreads and reaches. Just because I don't fully agree doesn't mean that I hate what you do though, You're entitled to your takeaway. Keep it up

@maxwellpaynewell5305

22 сағат бұрын

I wouldn't have thought it would be so refreshing to see a moderate response from someone. Thank you very much for watching, and I absolutely will

21:00 bro I can't believe I've never heard of this... That's actually fucking horrible, and the fact that it's been erased from history is unbelievably sad

@maxwellpaynewell5305

2 күн бұрын

Considering how much of America's history with mass shootings is centered around churches and schools, it makes me wonder and worry that there are more incidents like this that businesses have erased for the sake of PR management

This video is excellent, it's really a crime that it has so few views. That's what really compelled me to leave a comment, in my opinion this is absolutely on par with the other videos I regularly watch of this type. No need for the super flashy editing as long as you can write a decent script and get your point across eloquently and succinctly. I should also preface the rest of this comment with two admissions, first, that I've been a longtime subscriber of the Drinker's, and second, that I've never watched Falling Down before (it's always been one of those "I really need to find the time to watch that" kind of movies for me). My initial reaction to watching your video was disbelief as your description of the video he made was not how I remember it. I had it in my head that it was another one of his seemingly endless stream of videos decrying the state of modern Hollywood along painted with the rose-tinted glasses of nostalgia for movies of a better time. I'm a huge sucker for content of this type (even though there are plenty of examples you could bring up of great modern movies/shows and bad movies/shows of days gone by), and so even though I am usually groaning at yet another video about the new Star Wars show or something from Marvel, I still enjoyed his take on Falling Down regardless just because it seemed more fresh by comparison. Now, I want to emphasize that I've never seen Falling Down, so I might be returning to this comment after I watch the movie. It was completely shocking to me to find out how insidious his video on this movie actually is. He really does completely gloss over the scenes involving the neo-nazi gun store owner, not even mentioning the fact the man is a nazi (I'm sure there's imagery that I would've likely missed as I usually have videos like this playing in the background while I do other things), but later on he makes a supposition about the detective's wife that the movie implies she (and I'm quoting him directly here) "was responsible for the death (of their daughter)." And after dropping a huge bombshell like that, it's just off to the next section of the video, no attempt is made to point out any inconsistencies or character progression of the detective other than him "coming alive again." It speaks volumes to me that such obvious context clues like literal nazi imagery can be ignored but the "domineering wife" is definitely something worth getting into. He then spends most of the rest of his video bending over backwards to tell us that the movie is just a tragic tale of a man who was completely destroyed by the system, and that even his wife admits it went too far. Edit: So on my rewatch of the Drinker's video that I was doing just to ensure the things I am saying are accurate, I did notice that he mentions towards the end of his video that the gun store owner is a "racist." This was completely separate from the earlier parts of his video dealing with this scene, which really obfuscates things. What's really ironic is that this is the section of the video in which he is really drumming up the idea that the main character is actually a good guy, and the point he made in support of this argument, literally just before talking about the nazi, is that the main character "clings to the notion of being a proud American, appealing to a sense of 'national pride' that no one else around him seems to feel anymore." Again I usually have videos like this playing in the background and thus I didn't even notice the nazi imagery like I would if I was watching intently, but wow. Complete lack of self-awareness there. Anyways, my mindset going into this movie will be interesting. I hope I have not seen too much already such that I am unable to form my own conclusions. Is the main character really just completely evil through and through, or is he the tragic fallen anti-hero taking out his anger on the unjust system he finds himself in? Is the point of the movie to be a cathartic fantasy? Or does it delve deeper? Like I said, I'll probably revisit this comment to give an update on my opinion having watched it for myself. Oh, and the length of the comment is really just meant to hammer home my initial point, that this video was excellent and deserves far more views. I only talked so much about the Drinker because it's the only part I have personal experience with. The story of the actual murderer the main character may or may not be based on was absolutely chilling (and probably deserves a deep dive in it's own right). Sometimes the phrase "art imitates life" can hit too close to home. If you want a more light-hearted suggestion, I would love to hear what your thoughts are on Starship Troopers, another classic movie that has recently had some notoriety drummed up involving audiences and their lack of media literacy. Cheers! Edit 2: I hadn't noticed some of the negative comments written below before writing this, so if anyone has skipped to the end of this just to read here I want to explicitly state that the entirety of this comment is positive towards the creator of this video.

@paulwitbeck5689

2 күн бұрын

TL;DR: Video is great, I really enjoyed it, and I enjoyed it so much I decided to spend an inordinate amount of time writing a short essay on it.

@maxwellpaynewell5305

2 күн бұрын

This comment has left me grinning from ear to ear. Thank you so much for your kind words, and thank you even more for going into your experiences with this video in relation to your previous experiences with the movie and the Critical Drinker. It delights me to no end that you felt this video was of high enough quality to warrant such praise, such a descriptive response, and such introspection and review of your own thoughts on the film from what you already know about it. The whole reason I wanted to make this video the way I did is exactly for the reasons you specified. I want to make reviews/analysis that are best watched after your own viewing of the film. I want to provide spaces to facilitate deeper conversations about art from people as passionate about it as I am, which you very much seem to be. In this case, I also wanted to extend an offer to people who watched the Critical Drinker's video looking for a good analysis of Falling Down, and provide one which I think is of far higher quality than his own. I am, of course, happy that my arguments appealed to you, but even if this had been a long, negative response to my video (one of which I actually just replied to), I would be happy to see that you care enough to go into such depth about why you feel the way you do, and how you arrived at your conclusions. All of this said, I would absolutely recommend watching the film for yourself and arriving at your own conclusions. Again, even if your experience leaves you disagreeing with everything I said in the video, I would be thrilled to see you offer your takeaways and interpretations, and how they compared to your expectations. I'd be happy to engage in further discourse then. Until then, thank you very much again for your kind words. I hope you have a wonderful day.

@maxwellpaynewell5305

2 күн бұрын

​@@paulwitbeck5689TL;DR: This comment is great. I enjoyed it a lot. I hope very much that you return to this video and offer your analysis of the film after you watch it. There's a lot going on that I didn't have time to even mention, so don't worry about your perspective being too tainted by the videos you've watched. The film is very good when it wants to be.

@paulwitbeck5689

Күн бұрын

@@maxwellpaynewell5305 Having watched the film now, I can say that for the most part you hit the nail on the head. In particular, your point (around 12:38) about the movie being confused in it's message and thus being really all of the above is exceptionally poignant. A lot of this has to do with the rather bewildering choices the movie makes. The first place he goes after leaving his car behind is the Korean's convenience store, which should appeal to his "American pride" as the Drinker puts it, as it is as clear a microcosm of the American Dream as it gets, the minority immigrant who has come to America to make the best life for themselves in the best country for such a thing to happen. As you pointed out, he takes no offense to the Nazi gun store guy asserting his right to refuse service to the two gay men, but when the Korean is doing the same thing (refusing to give change except to a paying customer, setting his own prices as is his right, asking him to leave the store once he becomes unruly) then he's part of the "system" that oppresses us all? The only part of your video I somewhat disagree with is the way the encounter with the two gangsters is presented, but that mostly is a failing of the movie in my opinion. He does act derisive and condescending to the two men, but that does not in any way warrant them threatening him with the knife. At that point he's well within his rights to defend himself, and if the movie was smarter, this could've been the first act of violence we see from him, and only from there would there be a justifiable escalation into unjust violence that could then reveal the villain hidden underneath. Then later when the drive-by shooting happens, he could have a moment where he ponders the fact that he escapes unscathed, maybe seeing it as divine providence or something that he was "meant" to do all of the other horrifying things he does (a la Marvin Heemeyer, aka the man behind the Killdozer incident, if you want a real world example). Because of the way the movie frames things with the outburst beginning at the Korean's store, one can really only come to the conclusion that he is entirely insane, that there were obvious symptoms that were suppressed while he had a more stable life and that recent events have caused him to snap. Everything you brought up justifies this conclusion, the way his mother and ex-wife speak about him, the way he treats his victims, everything. Oh, and one part that really boiled my blood was the moment the cop questions his ex-wife and acts incredulous when she states he never struck her or their daughter. It's probably the realest moment of the movie, reinforced by the Drinker's bizarre theory that Prendergast's wife killed their daughter. Society in general is very willing to dismiss women's concerns until it's too late to act. As we see from the movie, the judge was completely correct to impose the restraining order, and probably should've also mandated at minimum a full psychiatric evaluation and whatever other medical help D Fens needed to prevent any of this from happening. The fact that she had to escape her own house with her daughter in tow moments before D Fens runs in himself (luckily he just decides to give himself away instead of just barging through the front door, huh?) is the greatest unintentional critique of our society the movie has. Overall though I think the movie was good, certainly underrated and with a message that should be heard by all, even if the movie handles it poorly at times. Definitely a problem of the director's vision differing from the writer's.

@maxwellpaynewell5305

Күн бұрын

@paulwitbeck5689 this is exactly why I want to encourage that people watch movies for themselves. I hadn't even considered how much the Korean-owned shop was indicative of the American dream coming to fruition. Granted, that's more of a criticism against the Drinker's analysis than the film, but it absolutely speaks volumes that D-FENS only takes issue to someone "reserving the right" when he's the one not being served. I do wonder how he would've reacted if the shop owner had actually said those exact words, the way he respects the Nazi saying those exact words. He seems to take extreme offense to people not having a perfect grasp and use of the english language. Speaking of, about the gang member encounter. I approached that scene from the very specific angle of considering that D-FENS had specifically intruded on their space, and seemingly had a perfect chance to leave without even needing to pay a toll. Of course, he had no reason to know that the space was their's, as he refused to/couldn't read their graffiti marking the spot, but regardless, if he had handled the situation with more tact and awareness, he would most likely have been able to escape the scenario before any violent escalation at all (to clarify, that was one of the two incidents where I said his violence was justified, the other being against the Nazi). I really should have made that more clear in the video, but I didn't want to accidentally write myself into a tangent about white people invading minority spaces and acting offended when they're told to leave, as I felt it wouldn't have fit into the video very well anywhere. All of that said, I totally get seeing that scene as mostly out of his hands, in terms of how quickly the situation became dangerous for both parties. That, and I definitely agree that any way of giving him a more tangible reason for his rampage would have made sense. I figure that his dumb luck is a part of the comedic aspect of the film, but considering how inconsistent the film already is with choosing to be sincere versus satirical, it couldn't have made things any worse. Plus, a little religious commentary here and there would have made D-FENS further embody the ideal post-WWII American, while Prendergast might have represented a blossoming atheist, or perhaps a born-again Christian by the end of the film. Thank you again for watching, both the video and the movie, and thank you doubly for coming back to give your thoughts after watching it. I love being able to see different angles of films I already enjoy watching, so I hope very much that in the future, more people will be as participatory and eloquent as you've been. I hope you have a wonderful day or evening!

Great analysis of the film.

@maxwellpaynewell5305

Күн бұрын

Thank you very much!

Good work

@maxwellpaynewell5305

Күн бұрын

Thank you very much!

No way bro has 16 subscribers

@maxwellpaynewell5305

2 күн бұрын

The road to 16 subscribers is paved in betrayal and heartbreak. Lord knows what I'll need to do for the next 16

@AxlPatrol

2 күн бұрын

17 now

LET'S GOOO bro cooked again

@maxwellpaynewell5305

2 күн бұрын

They're trying to keep me out of the kitchen, but it's just where I belong 🔥🔥🔥

whoof, that was a heavy ending. i didn't mind it, but i understand you wanting to do lighter stuff. i'm sub #24 o7

@maxwellpaynewell5305

2 күн бұрын

I'm usually not opposed to sensitive topics, but I definitely don't want to talk about stuff this dark all the time. Glad to know it wasn't too much for this video, though. And thank you very much for the sub!

This channel is gonna blow up here

@maxwellpaynewell5305

2 күн бұрын

I'd honestly be surprised if it does, but hey, I'm not opposed to being the next random small channel to get thousands of views out of nowhere

11 butthurt D-Fens fanboys mad you're telling the truth lol. You deserve all the subs my dude, great video. You should do a video on Homelander, I think there are a lot of people out there who wrongly relate to him as well. D-Fens might be the most related to of all the villain protagonists though, which I think is because besides his mental collapse is because he's so seemingly normal. Brilliant connection to being inspired by James Huberty as well, I always though he had to be something of an inspiration to the character.

@maxwellpaynewell5305

2 күн бұрын

I haven't actually watched The Boys, as I was something of a hipster back when it began, so I tried to dodge stuff that I deemed "too popular." Very happy I'm not as stuck up as I used to be. That said, if I make that video, it will probably take a while for me to watch the whole series, but I will absolutely take it into consideration! Thank you very much for the suggestion

Review the Evil Bong movies next

@maxwellpaynewell5305

Күн бұрын

I worry that those masterpieces might be beyond my frail mind, but I will add them to the list

Please explain to me how landlords are evil?

Love the analysis. This is some good takes. Drop the anecdotes with you reacting with your friend they add nothing, but otherwise your writing and editing is on to it.

@maxwellpaynewell5305

Күн бұрын

I'll consider how I want to format these videos in the coming months. He's actually my brother, and because of that I very much want him to have a place on the channel. But if that isn't in this specific series, then I have other plans for involving him

I think the outright demonisation of D-FENS misses the point as much as the outright lionisation. Your own ideological presuppositions lead you to this interpretation as much as right-wing ideology leads others to the alternative. While right-wing interpretations do indeed make a hero out of an obvious villain, you are missing the point by not investigating WHY they do this, rather dismissing them as stupid and woefully unaware of their own apparent privilege. Of course, superficially, D-FENS is meant to be a bad man, and you are not a pillar of "media literacy" (lmao) for recognising this fact. Your dismissal of the grievances that lead D-FENS to his rampage reflects the exact same way that current established culture dismisses the grievances of the men (they are overwhelmingly men, white men at that) that relate to him in their own lives. You are very close to getting it when you talk about how the "not economically viable" man is the victim of racism in a society that disenfranchises him through that specific avenue. However, you ignore the fact that D-FENS himself is similarly disenfranchised, not by virtue of his race, but by the fact that the rapidly shifting economy has left him (and the values that said economic superstructure instilled in him in his upbringing) behind, leading to his feeling betrayed and alone. Instead, you call him - and by extension those that relate to him - privileged, because he is white and ostensibly middle class. D-FENS, however, is not privileged nor are the archetypes that relate to him most. D-FENS' career failed, he lives with his mother, he lost his wife and daughter to his own mental illness. Where we draw the line between societal causes, and individual responsibility is always blurry, and I would argue should be drawn where your actions harm others, but regardless of guilt or blame for his treatment of his family, D-FENS is clearly not privileged, and I reiterate, your dismissal of him as a man of privilege "weaponising" said privilege while being unaware of it, blinded by self-wallowing, reflects the exact same way that society dismisses men like D-FENS in real life. These are men that are unable to articulate their own feelings of disenfranchisement (feelings which ought to put them in league with racial minorities and the poor) due to a cultural framework that people like you sustain which prevents such alliances from forming, by pitting equally disenfranchised groups against one another along lines of petty racial and socioeconomic grievances. Down and out lower-middle class white men lack the cultural space to articulate their displeasure because people, again like you, will dismiss them based on those very characteristics. It is the narcissism of small differences, the extent to which a man like D-FENS is better off than the "not economically viable" man pales in insignificance compared to how much better off the two golfers are than both. By disallowing alliances to form between D-FENS and the black man, you benefit the golfers. Yes, the "not economically viable" man protesting does in the script say that D-FENS looks economically viable but you ignore the glaring fact that he is WRONG. Within the cinematography, there is a clearly choreographed moment where their eyes meet which reflects the similarity of their positions and a brief moment of what should be mutual recognition, the black man slows his tempo and lowers his volume as he encounters a mirror image of himself, which is then interrupted by the racial grievance coming to the fore, whereafter he starts to shout again and the two go their separate ways. This perfectly illustrates the way in which petty racial grievances stand in the way of what should be a natural alliance. D-FENS is no more economically viable than the black man, that's the point, they are both wearing the same white collar uniform yet both are unemployed, by different means but they meet in the same place both literally and metaphorically, the black man is wrong, D-FENS is not more economically viable than him, the bank manager that denied his loan is. D-FENS is not the bank manager but he is blamed. I think your inability to unite the perspective of the script and the perspective of the film shines a light on your overly-ideological reading of Falling Down, if you take a step back you can unite the two and draw interesting conclusions, where a wingnut interpretation sees two mutually opposed perspectives, and fails to see the broader relevance of the film to modern society and the cause for so many to relate to the protagonist. I also found your interpretation of the scene with the gangsters interesting. 3:00 you shouldn't have to respect criminals that want to control where you can or cannot sit at pain or threat of death or injury. Your interpretation of this scene is again typical of a response to criminals that exists in our society today, which does not satisfy the grievances of the largely working or lower-middle class people that have to live alongside them. It is somehow their fault when they "provoke" such people to violence, not the fault of someone that will draw a gun if someone else is rude to them. D-FENS is not "weaponising his status against minorities," this is a ridiculous interpretation of this scene which is more laden with ideological baggage than the alternative obvious interpretation. D-FENS is refusing repeated attempts at intimidation by acting equally unpleasant, again living out the fantasy of people, of all races and backgrounds, that have to live side by side with such dangerous criminal elements on a day to day basis as a result of a continually malfunctional economic arrangement that abandons the elements of society which are surplus to its need. It is of utmost relevance that D-FENS is an out of work military contractor. There isn't a need for him anymore, the Cold War is over, Capitalism tosses him aside and like an abandoned child he is torn between violent feelings of rejection and a sustained love for the thing that rejected him. I don't think D-FENS is a good guy. I don't look up to him and I think it is a canary in the coal mine that so many people do. However, your interpretation of this film evinces the exact attitude that has resulted in this situation. The political orientation that should champion the voices of those left behind by the relentless march of Capitalism excludes one group from their solidarity due to petty racial grievances. This prevents any meaningful coalition, and results in the total alienation of that group, and therefore violence and violent fantasies. You cannot then be surprised when men like Donald Trump come to the fore. I do not share the perspective of a man like D-FENS, I don't even condone it. But I don't blame these men as individuals, at least not as an explanation for their existence as an aggregate social phenomenon. I blame the worldview that you espouse in this video, which dismisses their grievances, and offers no genuine solutions. I could talk more about how D-FENS is obviously not a racist, at least not in any meaningful capacity, a point deliberately made by the film via the numerous instances of kindredness with black people, specifically black children, but I won't because I have written enough lmao. I just think this is a very sloppy and surface level interpretation of the film and you should question why people take the alternative view instead of going "durrr but the script says." Again, you aren't a beacon of media literacy due to your possession of working ears, the point of interpreting a script is that you read BETWEEN the lines. Artistic intention does not equate to meaning, a piece of media takes on a meaning based on the societal lens through which it is interpreted. The story of D-FENS is the story of a man that is denied common cause with those that are similarly abandoned by the economy, the increasing dissolution and fracturing of his language throughout the film into banal capitalist platitudes reflects this, he is forced to love the thing that has caused his situation because one alternative (the left) rejects him, and the other (fascism) he finds repulsive. So he is forced into a world of individual reaction, atomised, a position to which an increasing number can relate.

@maxwellpaynewell5305

Күн бұрын

You've provided a lot to think about here, and I am happy to say that I agree with you on some of your points. There is absolutely something to be said about the kinship D-FENS gets very close to forming with black people in the movie. Were I talking about more than just an analysis of his character and actions during the film, I would absolutely have talked about the connections shown between him and the minorities in the film. Likewise, he is not as privileged as most other middle class white men of his time, especially considering his lack of independent housing and current unemployment and inability to pay child support which I imagine is building debt for him. You're also correct that outright dismissing his reasons for acting the way he does, in the real world, are a part of the reason why there is such an echo chamber surrounding the silent majority of the American population, particularly in the Rust Belt and other areas of rampant economic trouble. Concerning the film's more broad statements about how people like D-FENS come to be disenfranchised, there is a lot to say about how it happens and what it means for them and how it impacts their worldview. My main counter to your points would be that, while the film does provide the starting points for a lot of conversations about people like D-FENS, the character himself works very hard to undermine any benefit of the doubt or good will I would have otherwise been willing to provide. This is both because of his own inability to comprehend the greater scope of his situation (which is partially my own frustration and impatience from growing up around people who share his naive attitudes about economic viability), but more importantly, it's because of how repulsive of a character he is even without considering his economic plight. Men like D-FENS are not automatically the types of people who demand their household run like a time capsule from the 1950s, with a wife willing to bear responsibility for running the household and bend to their husband's every whim, but when talking about him specifically, his abusive behavior and generally toxic worldview overshadow those talking points for me. That's why I tried to make it clear in the video that I am not talking about people like D-FENS (except for the James Huberty situation, who, again, I would not afford any good will for when thinking about his actions and worldview), I am very specifically criticizing him as a character in the world of this film. Where in the real world men like D-FENS should absolutely be afforded patience and care when trying to talk about the greater scope of their economic situation, the man himself proved completely unwilling to listen to any contrary opinions or pleas from the people around him. In the real world, people can change their minds. But D-FENS, as a fictional character, and as the specific character that he is, is unable to be changed, and thus I am left to point out his several flaws and lament the fact that people see more good in him than I believe exists. Again, in the real world, I absolutely understand pausing a criticism of someone's character to point out the reasons why they became that way. Most people are also not as outright rude, abusive, and generally close-minded as D-FENS is. But in the case of D-FENS, and especially for this video specifically, I think it's more important to criticize his actions and ideology, because those are the things which are constantly being displayed, tested, and reinforced as the film goes on. TL;DR: You make a lot of very good points about why, in the real world, people like D-FENS are a result of the tragedy that is the US economy and its inability to support everyone in the nation. As time moves forward, people are left behind, when every effort should be made to insure that this happens as little as possible. But in the case of criticizing a fictional character, I believe it is not as important to recognize his real-life analogues, especially when my reading of the film is purposefully being contained to the world of the film. That, and the purpose of this video was specifically to challenge and refute arguments about him being a tragic hero figure in the film. Tragic, I can absolutely get behind, the circumstances that lead him to where he ends up by the end of the film are downright tear-jerking, especially when considering how many people in the real world suffer similarly to him. But a hero? Absolutely not. And for the moment, I felt it was more relevant to criticize that interpretation, and the film's inconsistent ways of portraying his character as it goes on. It means a lot to me that you watched the video and made an effort to communicate your disagreement and criticism of my points and conclusions, rather than insult me and leave it at that. Even if we are no closer to finding a middle ground in this discourse, I hope that I have explained enough of myself that you understand where I was coming from while making this video and thinking about the film. I hope you have a good day, and thank you again for being respectful and civil.

Banger video, instant sub!

@maxwellpaynewell5305

2 күн бұрын

Thank you very much!

Nice vidýo

@maxwellpaynewell5305

2 күн бұрын

Thank you!

Great Summary Mate ✌🏻

@maxwellpaynewell5305

2 күн бұрын

Thank you very much!

we getting woke out here. and i love it

@maxwellpaynewell5305

Күн бұрын

We very much are. Hopefully I'll be able to cultivate a community where woke isn't a four letter word

you know its a banger video when incels call you woke

@brassarmadillo2818

2 күн бұрын

are you an incel?

@maxwellpaynewell5305

2 күн бұрын

What they don't realize is that by commenting that, they only increase the exposure this video gets. So I say keep them coming

@fuckamericanidiot

2 күн бұрын

That's a low bar.

i've always seen this movie as the pre-joker bigot incel flick. "oh i hate fast food workers. they're all incompetent morons." "oh i hate construction workers, they're wasting MY time."

@maxwellpaynewell5305

2 күн бұрын

That selfish attitude that permeates his entire worldview is unfortunately one of the more overlooked parts of the fantasy D-FENS offers. His motivation is seemingly interpreted as "fighting for myself and people like me," when in reality he couldn't care less about anyone besides himself. With Joker, at least you knew he wanted to elevate people like him. With D-FENS, you have to look past his inability to think about other people in order to imagine being "on his side"

@RyleeStrange

2 күн бұрын

@@maxwellpaynewell5305 the joker got such a bad rap cos of the incel fanbase but as someone who struggles with chronic illness it's actually a really important film. No one takes you or your needs seriously, you're forgotten, shoved to the side by society, deemed irrelevant or a nuisance due to how you act in public spaces, ridiculed, mocked and you feel hopeless, helpless. That's what a lot of people don't get (but you clearly do). Joker is a movie about struggling with mental illness in a society who sees mental illness as a burden. It's not a movie about getting revenge on a society that doesn't understand you, as so many people take it. It's a fantasy film, where the fantasy is being able to live a 'normal' life.

@maxwellpaynewell5305

2 күн бұрын

​@@RyleeStrange that is an excellent way of reading the film. I never saw it as a straightfoward revenge fantasy, but I must admit I didn't consider the relevance of the social worker scenes and how Arthur's illnesses impact his daily life as much as I should have. Granted, I haven't watched the film since it released, but as someone with people close to me who live with chronic illness and mental illness, I absolutely get what you mean about society seeing it as a burden. It hurts me a lot to see people I love be expected to stop needing special treatment the moment they're in public. If I end up returning to the film, I'll definitely take that angle into consideration. Thank you very much for that enlightening perspective!

@RyleeStrange

2 күн бұрын

@@maxwellpaynewell5305 I appreciate you listening. You have a new subscriber. Thanks for such an insightful video, which has clearly spurred a much needed conversation.

@fuckamericanidiot

2 күн бұрын

You thought that the fast food workers seemed to be incompetent morons? You're projecting. I thought they were sympathetic characters but hey, that's not just me.

D-Fence is a bad guy because of the way he reacts. That is going outside of the law.

ok a reasonable take nothing new and nothing that people that have actually watched the film didn;t already know. One big issue though is the change to make the video an opinion piece on a content creator that you appear to have a personal grievance with. You claim it's not a hit piece on the critical drinker however that is not how you present the video and does comes across more as a thinly veiled attack on his work rather than a fresh perspective on a 40 year old film I think your original idea where you intended to inspire people to look deeper and critically into film would have been far better than this edit were you spend almost half of it complaining about the opinion of someone else, It's clear that you are not a fan of critical drinker and that's fine everyone is entitled to their own opinion but when you ask others not to listen to other creators and accusing them of (and I quote) "mis-interpreting art for the purpose of suiting their own faulty worldview" but in order to do so you have to lie and mis-interpret and change/ingnore the context of their work in order to make your point it sort of comes across as hypocritical at best.

@maxwellpaynewell5305

Күн бұрын

It may be that I ended up spending more time than I should have talking about him rather than the film, but even if you would call this a hit piece (which is up to you, if it came off that way then that's not something I can change after the fact), how have I misrepresented or ignored the context of the Critical Drinker's video? I did my best to limit my criticisms of his work to moments where he was factually incorrect about something, rather than simply interpreting it differently. If you mean the little addendums after each rebuttal to his points where I mentioned other points in each scene that I didn't think he would want to consider, I guess I can understand taking issue with those. However, I don't think I misrepresented him by saying those things. Again, though, if that's how it came off, then I can't change that. What I can assure you is that I don't plan on running a drama channel in disguise. I don't want to make negative videos about other youtubers if I can help it. In this case, I just didn't feel I could help it. So unless something crazy ends up happening in the future, this is the only video I plan on and want to make like this

@simonfreeman8233

Күн бұрын

@@maxwellpaynewell5305 ok let's break this down for you bear in mind this is my opinion only from being a fan of the film, watching both of his videos and your breakdown of it. The dinner scene you interpreted what drinker said that D-fens entered the dinner to make the argument and hold the place hostage until he got what he wanted but you know full well that is was not the case you blatantly lied about it in order to call drinkers comment "asinine", the same with the issue with the child speaking up and asking questions yes this may have had to do with his skin tone and maybe this young child already had fully understanding the cultural oppresion of people of his skin tone just as it could also easilly be the innocence of youth that has not been beaten into complacency by societal norms your wish to push your interpretation of that scene over the equily valid argument made by the drinker the two points of view are both equily valid and are not mutually exclusive this was mis-representation on your part in order to focus more on the racal aspects of the film rather than the social commentary of it, you then follow the race issue up with his comments about the bank scene and critisised drinker purely because he didn't expressly use the word 'black' while at the same time you totally ignore the fact that he was pointing out the the system makes promises the it never keeps to people that it can exploit ( hysterically darker skinned people) AND those the are "not economicaly viable" (hysterically a phrase used to describe non-white minorites) the destinction that you ignore in your hast to brand drinker an idiot is that in the context of the film anyone who watched it understood the phrase "not economically viable" was used explicitly to mean 'black' and don't need it to be blatently stated, as someone that loves film media you should be familier with the concept of show not tell, this is what good writers try to achieve something you also ignore when he mentions the use of london bridge and refrence to the film title ignoring that he was talking about the placment and the use of it not just that it was in the film instead you took time out to try to riducle him rather than notice or even try to understand the contex of his statment. When referencing how intelligent the writing was in the past he is usually referencing that more recent films are commonly written where they treat the audience as fools and seem to have the constant need to point out the obvious, audience aren't stupid they didn't need to be told the different causes of the injustices in the film they were shown it, the writers wrote with the expectation that the audience were intelligent enough to understand it and didn't need to be told it you also claim that drinker said that d-fens was a good man who did good things no he didn't what he did do was point out that on some level almost everyone can relate to why he did the bad things I think you need to re-watch the video again this time listen to it without your presonal bias. To be clear I'm not a fan of the critical drinker and disagree with a lot of his opinions however you telling people not to watch his (or anyone else's) channel just because you personally disagree with their opinions is hardly what you could call being an honest critic of their work it's clear that you didn't watch it 'better' than him what you did was watch it with a different perspective and form a different opinion. You own work speaks for itself, trust people to form and have their own opinions without you claiming to be 'better' at it than them

@maxwellpaynewell5305

22 сағат бұрын

​@simonfreeman8233 I see what you're saying. I'll absolutely admit I went into his video biased, I've only ever heard and seen negative things from and about him. And it may be that the way I talked about him and his points during the video was painted by that to such a degree that my own arguments were more against him than in favor of my own viewpoints. I still don't think I would say my central points of the video were compromised by how I framed most of his quotes, but I will admit that I shouldn't have made such a big deal out of acting like I watched the movie better, or anything like that. As much as I don't like admitting it with people like him, opinions and interpretations are ultimately personal matters, and it's very difficult to brand them as outright incorrect. I understand if that doesn't make up for how I presented myself in the video, and if that's put you off too much to stick around, I understand. I will say again that I don't plan on making any more videos about other people's opinions on art, so if nothing else, rest assured that I will do my best to avoid painting myself as such an ass in the future. Thank you for being willing to have a conversation about this instead of just insulting me and telling me to go screw myself

@simonfreeman8233

16 сағат бұрын

@@maxwellpaynewell5305 oh I intend to stick around the first half of your video was well constructed and pointed at a view point that many critics have not which is what made the second half stand out. The thing about Falling down is that it was amazingly written the charactor of D-fens was just a normal man faults and all that did some very bad things for reasons that many people could relate to, road works holding up trafic for hours while semingly doing no work, the grocery store owner hiking the prices, the 'gang' members trying to rob him, the dinner not offering what they advertised, the bank refusing service to honest hard workers and lets face it who hasn't wanted to do bad things to a nazi these are all thing that people want to fight back agianst however he was also a violent bigot with anger and violence issues the question posed to the audiance is when does doing a bad thing for a good reason become acceptable and when you look at Pentergast what does it take for a good man to do bad things. A thing to remember is that CD is not american and would not have viewed it with american mindset, I'm of the older generation Brit that saw this movie in the theater when it was relised so I viewed it with yet another mind set I watched it with my daughters who both got something else out of it, that is the beauty of well written, well cast and well acted movies which something I already know that you apreciate and as such if you have not already seen it I would highly recomend that you watch the Cube (1997) the charactor interactions and development in that film are amazing. I do honestly wish you well with your passion to create content filled with fresh and new insights into the world of film if your other videos are anything to go by you deserve a great success keep it up and keep it fresh. 📽🏆

@maxwellpaynewell5305

15 сағат бұрын

@simonfreeman8233 I'm glad to hear that the rest of the video wasn't tainted by the shift in direction, I very much look forward to making more focused projects in the coming months. Talking of, I will absolutely take that recommendation into account! I've been gathering some from other comments and replies, so expect to see that movie as well as a couple others mentioned by other folks. Cube, specifically, I've heard amazing things about from several people, but I haven't been able to watch it myself yet. I'm happy to have a reason to change that

It is incredible, how warped your perception of this movie is, Maxwell, and how you've injected 21st century politics into a setting where BOTH sides of the political spectrum would say, you are the one who is insane, and detached from reality. . . The main character (William Foster) is a guy who snapped, plain and simple. He is not a bigot, and he proved it multiple times throughout the movie, although it should not be understated how the demographics of this nation changed so rapidly (in the span of 2 decades), and how people who once felt at home (in THEIR homeland) began to feel alienated, disposable, and even unwanted in this society (a national structure, whose design is specifically attributed to one specific group of people, in this country, and idgaf what you say, or think about that, because it's historical fact). If you watched this review all the way through, and agree with this commentator, then you should ask yourself . . . If William Foster is the "bad guy", who are the "good guys", and which one does that make me ? Am I happy with the trajectory of this society, and by extension, this nation ? Do I believe that what is perceived as wrong today, can be perceived as right 10 years from now, due to triviality, peer pressure, and apathy ? Couldn't even get through the first five mins. of this review . . .

@maxwellpaynewell5305

2 күн бұрын

I do wish you were able to stomach the other twenty-five minutes, if for no other reason than making me feel more confident saying what I'm about to say. You seem intent on believing that there are "good guys" and "bad guys." Or rather, that the existence of one necessitates the existence of the other. There are evil people in the world, I'm sure we can agree on that. But I think it would be much harder to argue that paragons of absolute good morality exist in this world. I, for one, don't think they do. But that doesn't make it any harder to say that a man like D-FENS, Bill Foster, whatever you want to call him, could not be considered a good man today or in 1993. He can do some morally responsible things over the course of the film without suddenly being a "good guy," because in reality, there aren't many clear cut good or bad guys. Simply people. Some of those people are bad and embrace it, some pretend to be good, some try to frame their badness as good, and some are just good. Demanding that every person be categorized as a "bad guy" or "good guy" is detractive to actual arguments of morality. Also, I don't know that I would boast that "historical fact" about America as much as you do. It can be true that America has always catered to white Americans, while simultaneously being true that that isn't a good thing. America isn't white. It's always been a melting pot. Why act like it's best to favor one demographic instead of favoring all demographics and making the country better for everyone?

@maxwellpaynewell5305

2 күн бұрын

I would like to thank you for providing an actual argument, though. Even if we must agree to disagree, I think what you have done here is thousands of times more productive and intellectually stimulating than just saying I'm wrong and insulting me. So, sincerely, thank you for this comment. I hope you have a pleasant day.

@BrianS1981

2 күн бұрын

You know, I really dislike it when people push a nazi level distortion of reality. Your screed reads like it could have been a direct translation from Der Stürmer

@paulholman2841

2 күн бұрын

@@maxwellpaynewell5305 You as well Maxwell, and I wish you luck on your channel, and because you asked me to, I will watch the rest of it. However, I believe that I will ALWAYS fundamentally disagree with a person like you, because I am an independent thinker, a student of history, and an observer of human nature. I do not look at history, or even current events through the extremely warped (publicly used) lens of liberal/progressive political ideology (status quo). You wish to argue that there are no absolutes in this world, with respect to the innate being of good, or evil within an individual person, and in the context of linear time, I would agree, but IN the moment of now, I would absolutely disagree. His outrage (and yes, his violence) is absolutely understandable, if not outright condoned in most instances in this movie imo. The moment William Foster finds himself in these situations, he reacts with courage, in defiance of the status quo, and in defense of HIS individuality (and by extent, his liberty). The truth is, that there are/were countless men just like William Foster(of all races), who created, built, and bled for this nation. I am not here to argue that whites should get preferential treatment (in the nation that spawned from them), but I will argue ALL day, and with anyone that they should be a protected class of people (like every other race in this nation), because as of right now, people of your brand of political philosophy have openly targeted them, and downplayed the absolutely invaluable role that they have in this society, (which once again, they created, built, and bled for on a MASSIVE scale) with evidently disastrous consequences now, and in the future. You were probably born post Y2K, so imo, you have no context, or contrast of the way things were, before your time compared to how they are now, thus I forgive you, and people like you, for being misguided, as I believe ultimately We (The People) all want the same thing. . . To do what is right by Our people. . . God bless 🙏

@paulholman2841

2 күн бұрын

@@BrianS1981 Don't read it then lmao 🤣, I can guarantee that you have no idea what the difference is, between national socialism, and fascism. Go back to an echo chamber, where people will pick up on your buzz words, and think you are smart, instead of trying to argue with someone like me, and end up looking stupid.

dont make this a Carreer...

You'll get it when you're older.

what a load of woke garbage.

@who2807

2 күн бұрын

Ok

@JohnnyGingy

2 күн бұрын

Let me guess incel?

@skeetsofrage9517

2 күн бұрын

@@JohnnyGingy lol ahhh the go to insult for when you have no comeback, no argument and no idea

@Nevoia

2 күн бұрын

@@skeetsofrage9517 why is it ok to insult the video by calling it woke, but not to insult the guy calling it woke? such a hypocrite.

@CrAzYpotpie

2 күн бұрын

​@@NevoiaThe same reason that me deleting this video isn't equal to me deleting you. Think for a moment, won't you?

Whole heartly disagree with your interpretation. A bit shallow and low hanging fruit with a spin og moden Politics

You lost me at the first sentence. There are no important films. Movies are not important.

@bazookahorse

Күн бұрын

That's seriously your argument? Movies aren't important? Move on then clownshoes.

woke

@Nevoia

2 күн бұрын

woke = based

@Mongovision

2 күн бұрын

@@Nevoia broke

@Nevoia

2 күн бұрын

@@Mongovision yeah man disney is so broke. barbie did awful in theaters. nike hasn't sold any shoes since they went woke.

@Mongovision

2 күн бұрын

@@Nevoia idk what to tell you dude you know what happens when you go woke

@Nevoia

2 күн бұрын

@@Mongovision incels ineffectively babyrage at you for a week or two until their goldfish-like attention spans force them to move onto something else to be outraged about?

Dude...get a real job because this isn't really for you.

Cringe.

Hey beta boy. Need a hug?....... 😂😂❤😊