Direct view of watchin the button knot tighten ta fail was neat.

It appears that all of your soft shackles were with Brion Toss button knots that had been properly hardened. Kudos on that. Button knots are harder to tie and take more rope. I see a lot of soft shackles offered using the diamond (lanyard) knot. It is easier and less expensive, but also less strong.

Great video, thorough yet very to the point! Congrats on taking this next step Ian! 🎉

Excellent video - you did the testing and that to me is full proof. Thankyou for your effort to make this. Subscribed to your channel

So as I see it, the website says the MBS (max break strength) is 21,000 lbf, so the shackle pretty basically will perform configured in any way, but some ways may be slightly better. That all makes sense. I can't imagine anyone using a 1/4" shackle to pull over 10 tons in their right mind, as that is not what that small of a shackle should be tasked with in the first place, so anyway you look at it, that is pretty impressive! When used within the range recommended, and when in good condition, and not wrapped around anchors that would introduce cuts to the rope, there should be no issues! Nice video!!!

@brettknighten1171

Жыл бұрын

MBS is minimum breaking strength not max breaking strength. The lowest load it can be expected to break at. It was the lowest load out of a set of 5 break tests

@bobbymcaliley1214

9 ай бұрын

People are dumb and will do some surprisingly dumb things

This was a great video for me to see what these do under heavy load, thank you. The only time I've had one of these slip the knot was the first time I made my own out of old winch rope and didn't tie a large enough knot or pre stress it after I tied it. I also never knew there was a right or wrong way to attach these and have done it dozens of times without paying attention to knot location and haven't had any issues, but I'll probably have an issue next time I go out because I just bragged about it😂

I think the protection webbing tube should be longer so to cover and protect the holding points. You have not always got a clean fixing point or a thick or round fixing point. I only use soft shackles with full protective sleeving so I can wrap round any part of a vehicle ! 🇬🇧🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

Great test. I'd be interested in a vibration or repeated jerk test, optimally at random angles. Looks like a commenter below was doing fast crane lifts and noted a pop off.

I use a mutch smaller version fer my hammock hangin,but same concept and that was cool ta watch.thanks fer wastein so mutch expensive gear fer my enjoyment 😉. Appreciate u.

Awesome video mate, thanks 4 sharing

My takeaway is that the loops and knots are not the weakest points in the system. If a two-ton car needs to be yanked, ten or twelve thousand pounds of force should be plenty to do most recoveries. Fab Rats had a Soft Shackle failure at the Off-Road Wrecker Games which was attributed to using a damaged or nicked shackle. That would be interesting to see tested. How much damage can cause catastrophic failure?

@afraidknotropes

Жыл бұрын

Great question. I’ll have to look into the best way to test that.

@jayztoob

Жыл бұрын

They were using soft shackles over sharp, square corners - something that nobody I know would EVER do, with ANY rope or cable, under ANY circumstances.

@JasperJanssen

9 ай бұрын

Well, but that’s wrong. *all* the failures were in the loops and knots. They *are* the weakest point in the system. Dyneema doesn’t like being bent, and that’s where the bends are.

Great info, cheers

Good job I can confirm all the info in this video

the loop will always sinch up before any real.force is applied. the path of least resistances principle.

I am looking into a set up right now that’s solid and affordable and I think y’all have won me over!! Thanks for the product review!!

@kevinwalker7302

Жыл бұрын

Just be sure not to buy this 1/4" SS for use with any car or truck... He explains appropriate sizes and use in each items product description...

@wesman7837

Жыл бұрын

@@kevinwalker7302 any light car or compact truck would be fine in 99% of conditions. I guess I wouldn't recommend it for grandpa's '71 Cadillac Deville or your 3/4 Ton diesel, but in most smaller cars and trucks you're not going to have a problem.

@kevinwalker7302

Жыл бұрын

@@wesman7837 check the manufacturers recommendations before spreading misinformation... This 1/4" SS is designed for use only with ATV, dirt bike, snowmobile... Larger sizes recommended for passenger vehicles...

Curious as to how much heat was generated at the failure points.

Any way you can test these with the kinetic forces when jerked? (versus a slow pull).

Would be nice to know the breaking strength or the rope that’s used to tie the shackle. It looked like the breaking location varied. In some cases it looked like it broke at the end of the noose and also at the lock stitch when the noose wasn’t cinched, and the bow shackle. The bow shackle breaks are user error due to set up. Spacers can be used to center the load. Hope to see another round in the near future.

Maybe turn the metal shackles so the rope isn’t on the bolt. Most shackles bolt to a solid, leaving the ring for the hookup.

@afraidknotropes

Жыл бұрын

Yep that’s an option for sure.

What type of stopper knot do you use and where can I find info on it

it does appear logical that the knot could pop out of the loop if it is close to the attachment, but if the loop is constricted by the attachment, it would be less likley under strain to pop out. I find they are more likely to 'drop' out while the gear is loose before tension applied. They all broke about same strain, which was reassuring! but sun and water don't help.

@JasperJanssen

9 ай бұрын

Try making a soft shackle without a loop, just a big knot at the end of a giant loop of cord. You will find that even that holds just fine under tension.

great video, I appreciate the testing side of this video and the details. What about "shock load" (using vehicle to snatch recover another) testing? are the results the same in break strength?

@afraidknotropes

Жыл бұрын

Great question I am trying to get some information like that together for another video. It is quite expensive to get a dynamometer able to test that high especially one that can be taken out in the field. In terms of shock load that would depend on the type. If using one of our kinetic ropes the load would be much more gradual of course with a static line (bad idea) it would fill load be nearly instantly. We recommend soft shackles that are over rated to account for the shock load.

@kadmow

Жыл бұрын

@@afraidknotropes - hownot2 may assist. ?? expand their rope craft into the 4x4 world.

@woodvilleian

Жыл бұрын

@@kadmow I have seen a bunch of their stuff maybe I can get a hold of them.

Show a graph or chart

The way I see it is that the breaking strain of the rope is being tested.

So basically most were 22-24k but none failed even having an oversized loop! Some of the "improper" seemed to be 20-21k, but they all held up very well!

i use steel shackles so far never seen one come off or brake

time stamp 6:23... The loop actually tightens on the knot, before the break...

The metal shackles held up just fine.

@afraidknotropes

Жыл бұрын

Yep we were sure to use shackles that were well above the ratings of the soft shackles.

@kevinwalker7302

Жыл бұрын

And you would never choose a 1/4" SS with any work or recovery involving a car or truck, where you typically find the metal bow shackles being used...

@ljprep6250

Жыл бұрын

Which, the 7/8" or the 1.5" shackles on the machine? ;)

We tried soft shackles while rigging light crane loads (

@alastairmacdonald-pb9ki

10 ай бұрын

You should use a button knot. Which has a defined shelf at the base. I believe monkey paws are more spherical

@blackhawk7r221

10 ай бұрын

@@alastairmacdonald-pb9ki We will definitely try it, thanks.

Using a brummeled loop will hurt you vs a sunk loop by as much as 30%.

Look liked the rope failed before the knot?

@afraidknotropes

Жыл бұрын

Ya the knot will never be the failure spot. A good shackle will fail and the point where the rope goes through the other to make the loop. (Unless there is other wear)

I think the quality of the knot is most important.

@Dan-gs3kg

Жыл бұрын

Yep, the button knot is quite complicated and mistying it could have it fall apart.

What manufacturer and diameter Dyneema did you use?

@afraidknotropes

Жыл бұрын

Hi Pat, we use our own UHMPE made in Canada. In this test we used 1/4”.

@jasonh4167

Жыл бұрын

@@afraidknotropes I love Canadian made ✌

No material difference. Every shackle, regardless of how it was configured, perform at or above the advertised maximum breaking strength.

Casey LaDelle youses them all the time

Most of the failures were cut by the intersection of the pin and shackle body. Hasn’t it always been the rule to connect soft components to the shackle body while the pin connects with hard points ? This goes way back before the existence of soft shackles and super-rope technology. If you run the same test again correctly I’ll wager they all fail consistently higher. Oh, and why remove the protective sleeves ?

@kevinwalker7302

Жыл бұрын

You are correct about pin on hard point, which also allows multi directional pull on load line... If connecting two lines, pin supposed to have several washers to center and stabilize line... Why remove protection??? Probably because goal of this test was primarily getting knot to slip, secondary was looking for drastic changes based on knot position, and had nothing to do with the maximum break strength of product, which would be virtually identical as protection does not provide any tensile advantage (possibly avoid/improve the pinch point, but that wasn't always failure point anyway) even with the protection, in the end, this product only gets a MBS of 21k lbs printed on the tag...

I like when it breaks and doesn’t snap like the “correct” method…

@Long_Island_Justin

Жыл бұрын

And the d ring is backwards, “eye to the sky”

The only time I would use a soft shackle is for joining 2 straps.

@ljprep6250

Жыл бұрын

OK. I've seen what they can do and would trust them in many situations.

@lewy1

Жыл бұрын

@@ljprep6250 That’s fine, but for me with my synthetic winch line I want it to be the weakest link which it is when using a bow shackle and tree straps. Like I said the only time I would use one is for joining straps where it becomes the weakest link. The soft shackle has become the most overhyped tool out there.

Perfect like ratio 👌 here's a like though 👍

@BurchellAtTheWharf

Жыл бұрын

Well it was 420

I am afraid of knots. Rope turns into bird nests even if I walk near it.

My take from this was that the soft shackles failed every time and the D rings never failed.

@Psyco913

Жыл бұрын

Those looked like 7/8" bow shackles, so they're rated to at least 13,000lbs WLL. Steel shackles like that tend to have a factor of safety of 5, so they break around 65,000 lbs. Of course they are stronger than 1/4" soft shackles.

@afastcuda1970

Жыл бұрын

@@Psyco913 So why bother with the soft shackles? Just use the steel one and be done.

@Psyco913

Жыл бұрын

@@afastcuda1970 Because the thing you are attaching the steel shackle to might fail and then you have a heavy piece of steel flying through the air instead of a lightweight piece of rope.

@kevinwalker7302

Жыл бұрын

@@afastcuda1970 because the the soft shackles are INFINITELY safer when a tow strap, snatch strap, or kinetic rope fails mid recovery, and any chunk of metal in system instantly becomes a murder missile... Most common perilous projectiles originate in middle of system, when a bow shackle is used to connect 2 straps or ropes, or when a Recovery Rookie doesn't understand how terrible of an idea it is to attempt a Rescue by simply placing eye of recovery line over the 2" ball hitch that has never ever left his truck.... (I know I myself, and likey damn near every other truck owner, was guilty of this for the first year or two of being a driver and making dumb adventure decisions) sadly, it's not hard to find multiple reports or video of a Reckless Rescue Ball blasting directly through Stranded Sylvilian's windshield, deftly decapitatingthe driver, or rapidly relocating half their face, jaw, or skull to their back seat... 💀☠️😟☠️💀 No exaggeration😢 bow shackles have failures in field when odd crossloading occurs or more common is a pin failure, either from lazy human not fully threading pin to max depth, or orienting pin in vertical position, with threads over heads, and pin magically unscrew itself... "Screw down so you don't screw up!!!" To end on more positive note, the soft shackle easily attaches to much larger diameter items like small trees and weighs next to nothing... Consider a 3/4" bow shackle is likely most common size for attaching standard yellow tow straps, and I will actually need minimum 1" for a tight squeeze to 1 1/4" bow shackle to attach my 1 1/8" Bubba Rope (rated over 50k lbs) ... Things are getting obscenely large and obnoxiously heavy really quick!!! My 7/16" Gator jaw soft shackle (also rated over 50k lbs) makes no noise bouncing around back of truck, and actually floats on water!!! It's kinda a no brainer which is preferred to pack....

@afastcuda1970

Жыл бұрын

@@kevinwalker7302 What does tow ball recovery have to do with this conversation? To keep the steel shackle from failing I just won't attempt a 65000lb recovery.

GOOD CONTENT, one suggestion, stop telling us what your gonna do and just do it, we'll figure it out. Then put the data at the end in a spread sheet for us to look at?

@nordic5490

Жыл бұрын

No. The biggest youtube creators atm, eg Cleetus Mcfarland, summarise the video, including the crash or engine blow up, all in the first 10secs, then, tell the story over 20mins. This caters for the short attention span viewers. If they like the summary, they will then watch the full 20mins, without being frustrated.

@afraidknotropes

Жыл бұрын

Still working on all that I will keep working on it.

Casey laDelle had 1 slip off with a too big loop ➰

@afraidknotropes

Жыл бұрын

I believe that was also the knot having been a different knot. I’ll have to watch it again to confirm but he mentions that is can slip off one side and not the other.

What were the small pin shackles rated at, out of curiosity?

Cascade Heavy Towing had a YT video with a soft shackle coming unfastened with load. Looking into it: A it was an Amazon cheapie, B it had a poorly shaped knot...smallish and sloped at the bottom edge. And testing of other better soft shackles agreed that install position was not critical. IE, everything in agreement with your video. I used to work at a research test lab...tested a lot of things to failure. My opinion is that advertised ratings are strictly marketing decisions, perhaps loosely based on the ratings of the rope materials used. Best to look at the quality of the shackle and the diameter of the rope...forget the rating numbers.

The reality is, if you get to a breaking point at 20k+ , that's well beyond what you will actually see in reality. If you are seeing more than that, you should be using a larger diameter soft shackle. I carried a 25k lb line scale with me for over a year, and anytime i had to rig for a pull, i threw it in the mix, and never even got over 10k. (Figure I'm using a Warn Xeon 10, so a 10k winch, so obviously.....) also, through my own testing and with an acquaintance that does massive amount of testing of this stuff, we have found that soft shackles will break +/- by well over a few thousand lbs, it's just the reality of synthetic ropes. I agree you should use some form of protection, but the orientation, imo, just doesn't matter in the real world.

@kevinwalker7302

Жыл бұрын

According to this guys math, 19k lbs can be expected between 2 full size trucks... Around 4 min mark, maybe 4:30... Soft shackles get mentioned at 12:30 iirc... kzread.info/dash/bejne/f5ZnpM2elbvSedI.html

You never mentioned your desired direction of pull at the beginning. Stop fu$**ng around with dark psychology & manipulation as if your a Boss... It was still an interesting and important test. Thanks for the safety update. I got the important detail in the end.

I would never buy from a company that takes a moderately and properly spoken narration of a review of your product and finishes it with a high volume drum-guitar sound. How rude. I jerked my head in response to the increased volume and disrupted the crystals in my ear. Now, back to the vestibular therapist to get them repositioned to where they belong. Why do you people think these rock finishes are conducive to good customer relations? Especially with such sudden loud sound volume? I guess I should have expected the loud finish because you start with such an obnoxiously loud start.

@afraidknotropes

Жыл бұрын

Hey Mark, sorry about. Still trying to get the hang of audio and editing. I’m no KZread professional I’ll try harder next time.

@VoidedWarranty

Жыл бұрын

This point of view of "I would never buy from a company that proves their product with good data and shows that it's good but I don't like the audio" is weird. it's not like I'm keeping ropes attached to a vehicle using sound, I'm using soft shackles. I'd much rather you be good at soft shackles than sound. ​ @afraidknotropes we Canadians just like good guitar I guess. Only a little loud, but keep the music! it's fine! And the volume isn't even that far off from the narration, youtube ads get this way worse.

@idadho

Жыл бұрын

@@VoidedWarranty If they can't do the little things, I'm concerned about how skilled they are to do the important things. It is called "attention to detail"

@VoidedWarranty

Жыл бұрын

@@idadho He showed the attention to detail in his field of expertise. why would you think a recovery gear manufacturer would be proficient in video? that's two completely different fields. Do you go asking your dentist to change your tires? It's called reasonable expectations.

@idadho

Жыл бұрын

@@VoidedWarranty He admitted to his lack of editing skills and hopes to do better. I accept that. He is not a rocket scientist. He did simple but valuable testing. Using the volume slider is a learned skill just like making recovery gear is a learned skill. Some who learn as they go pay more attention to details. In my decades of business, I have found that those who do not pay attention to all of the details to a basic level have often missed important details. Many 'experts' are lousy at presenting their business. That lack usually shows up in other places. I read my posts 3 times before I post.

Just stopped long enough to give a thumbs down for the overused 'FAKE NEWS" title.

It sure enough happened at Matt's off-road recovery during his Wrecker Olympics they had a couple of failures with them things and it doesn't matter how you rig it if it's a single pull did may stay where you leave it but if you're traveling that thing is going to walk circles yeah it don't matter how you put it on

@tyendor1952

Жыл бұрын

Bullshit! There was only one failure and that was when Paul tried pulling blue steel, and it was later determined by Alan from Yankum Ropes that the shackle was already damaged from when they barrel rolled the Isuzu.

@Psyco913

Жыл бұрын

@@tyendor1952 Not to mention if you are doing a real kinetic recovery and you find yourself hitting 40 mph at the end of the rope, you are the problem, not the gear.