Check out the Store: growling-sidewinder.creator-spring.com/ Thank you guys for watching and if you have any ideas for future videos please put them in the comment section below and they might just end up in the pipeline, thanks again, much Love.

@robloxboi21alt59

10 ай бұрын

Love it!

@hkguitar1984

10 ай бұрын

Thank You Toxic, great flying. Thanks GS, great content. When I was in the Reserves my Unit flew the F-4s, such a classic Hulk of a Jet.

@JohnDoe-vf2es

10 ай бұрын

P-38 vs Mosquito, please??

@Plane_pancake

10 ай бұрын

GrowlingSidewinder has now become a history channel lol

@seanmurphy7011

10 ай бұрын

F-4 vs MiG-23?

Outcome aside, Toxic really made that thing sing. Reversals were special. You sure can pick opponents.

@tiivc

10 ай бұрын

real Colonel Tomb hours

The F-4 was a very very effective fighter when pilots were trained for dogfights. When I was in the Navy during the transition from F-4’s to F-14’s we routinely saw F-4 crews dominate even against highly trained F-14 crews. The F-4 should have received the iron hammer upgrades.

@TheBear710

10 ай бұрын

Indeed but in a real engangment against f14s f4s would be obliterated..... bvr go BRRRRRR

@rickdubbink

10 ай бұрын

What are/were the iron hammer upgrades about?

@Raz.C

10 ай бұрын

What a coincidence... A few days ago, GS put out a vid of the F-4 up against the F-14!

@rafis117

10 ай бұрын

@@rickdubbinkmaybe he’s referring to the Israeli RF-4X program? They were able to take F-4s up above Mach 3 using water injection.

@BARelement

10 ай бұрын

@@rafis117Water?

Yes the F-4s were using flight paths and call signs of F-105 Thunderchiefs. So the mission thought they were jumping Thuds and instead got jumped by Phantoms themselves. Col Robin Olds was the mastermind of the plan.

@robgraham5697

10 ай бұрын

Robin Olds is one of the greats.

@ToreDL87

10 ай бұрын

Well he came up with the general concept and props for that because SOMETHING had to be done, but he didn't mastermind Bolo any more than Yamamoto masterminded Pearl Harbor, most of it was for tactical officers to figure out.

@Joseph-Colin-EXP

10 ай бұрын

His book, fighter pilot is wirth a read.

@Jacrabbit454

10 ай бұрын

Beat me too it.

@AFlockofTacos

10 ай бұрын

Came to here to make sure Olds got his due.

My dad worked on f4’s in country, he said they parked them pointing into the woods because diagnostic checks tended to have the missiles launch while on the ground.

@b.chuchlucious5471

10 ай бұрын

My Dad did also, 555th at Ubon and Udorn. Autopilot specialist.

@DChrls

10 ай бұрын

Weren't they shooting Sparrows? 🤡😖

@bipbap5079

10 ай бұрын

@@DChrls And Sidewinders...

@PhantomP63

10 ай бұрын

I don’t remember which book it was in, but supposedly one of the bases in Iceland prohibited armed Sidewinders on F-4s for a time because one came off the rail and took out an electric power cart. It’s interesting to read about similar incidents. I’ll try to find the reference

Man if you keep doing explanations of real battles while you dogfight, from any era, you’ll have so many viewers.

If you want to know about Operation Bolo read the book "Fighter Pilot" by Robin Olds. He's the legendary pilot that came up with, and executed Bolo.

The “bombers” were usually F-105s (though B-52s were brought down as well). It would. Be interesting to see an F-105 vs MiG-21.

@ret7army

10 ай бұрын

Thud Ridge was a good read and the author describes a few encounters

@aztec0112

10 ай бұрын

I've recently been running some test packages in DCS with VSN's Thud and Phantom. Mods vs DCS MiG-15/-19.The only real threat was from SA-2's I added after a bit.

@benn454

10 ай бұрын

Two circles the size of Texas

@jamesjarrait2231

10 ай бұрын

Those 105s couldn’t maneuver to save their mother when loaded for bombing.

@stinkyfungus

10 ай бұрын

​@@jamesjarrait2231 Even clean, they were known to be poor performers in a dogfight. Wing loading was pretty lousy. Fast as a raped ape on the deck though... Nothing of its era could keep up with it down low with the ball to the wall.

Also, the F-4’s were fitted with a rudimentary radar jammer called the ‘Tree’ that helped complete the ruse. The north Vietnamese saw a big blob of interference on their radar screens and thought another flight of F-105’s were approaching and before Operation Bolo ONLY F-105’s were equipped with these devices.

Phantom is definitely my favorite jet of all time. If you get the version with the gun, you should make some videos of you taking on progressively harder (in terms of platform) opposition in it. Let's find its limits lol. Phantom vs Everything! 😂

You and Toxic are such a great combo as duals,always amazing! Hats off for a darn great video! Always the best of the best GS

As someone who’s favorite jet is the phantom, I love this

@viktorthebird6115

10 ай бұрын

As someone who's favorite jet is the MiG-21, I love this as well ❤

@An_idot

10 ай бұрын

Lucky guy has had 3 phantom vids in a row

From what I’ve learned, the Phantom was envisioned as an interceptor for the navy, which the Sparrows and Sidewinders could handle easily. Will say, could be worse; you could be running with the AIM-4 Falcons

@benn454

10 ай бұрын

Ew, gross. At least the Sparrows were good for mounting on ships.

@_ace_defective_

10 ай бұрын

Well.... Air Force Phantoms did run the Falcons in Vietnam. They predictably did about as well as you would expect lol. Despite that, they seem to have used them all the way into 1972. The doctrine with interceptors at the time was to have no gun; the Phantom wasn't particularly unique in that regard (although the removal of the gun at the time is obviously still debatable) but it was also mainly forced into an air superiority role instead, where the lack of gun really did hurt it, although the early Sidewinders (or Falcons) and Sparrows, along with the humid climate of SEA, wasn't doing them any favors.

@bubblesofthecoast6393

10 ай бұрын

@@_ace_defective_ Definitely. Also, a weird parallel could be found between Soviet and American pilots, in the sense that they both “forgot” how to dogfight. I know Paper Skies talks about it in his Soviet Top Gun video, which does a good job discussing this

@hecunt3633

4 ай бұрын

​@@_ace_defective_ The AIM-4s weren't meant for the F-4's hardpoints either

The power of the F4 is really coming into clear focus with this video, holy cow

@920utdoors9

10 ай бұрын

Proof with enough thrust anything flies

Not having a gun is because the F-4 was also intended as an interceptor, however an area interceptor rather than a point interceptor. Even the Soviets built gun-less interceptors such as the Su-9, Su-11, and Su-15.

@ComradeAndrej

10 ай бұрын

First MiG-21 variant also didn't have a gun.

@Archer89201

10 ай бұрын

​@@ComradeAndrejI think the early MiG-21 had two 30mm guns, then when the missile mania hit under Krushchev they got rid of the guns , then back to gun pods and then 23mm guns on the later models

@katherinespezia4609

10 ай бұрын

@@Archer89201 Quite a few of the MiG-21s that Vietnam flew were the gun-less PF model.

@NuclearFalcon146

10 ай бұрын

@@ComradeAndrej So just like the Su-9, two missiles and that is ALL you get! Basically a manned SAM at that point. I think when the MiG-21 got its guns (initially twin 30mm, same as MiG-19) that it was more to supplement firepower than to be used in a dogfight. Two missiles just is not enough.

10 ай бұрын

Wasn't the F4 designed as a fleet defense interceptor ? Which requires far-reaching missiles, a lot of loitering endurance, a powerfull radar and two engines.

Would love to see a Dogfight between the Mig-23 and the F-14

Idea time: Vietnam Era BVR fight. Tasking: You and your adversary are directed to each other by AWACS/Ground control. You have to use your primitive sensors and your whits to gain a tactical advantage and kill your adversary. Fox 1 and Fox 2 allowed.

@jhadorn1

10 ай бұрын

I would also say, if the F4B, no chaff or flare! Don't know about the Mig

On the VSN f-4 you need to switch your radar mode. I believe the keybind is 2 or P it makes getting tone way easier

@frankbizzoco1954

10 ай бұрын

I agree, it makes getting a lock way easier. Especially with Sparrows within visual range.

@GrowlingSidewinder

10 ай бұрын

I'd love to know what that bind is called because I can't find it. It would be very helpful.

@frankbizzoco1954

10 ай бұрын

@@GrowlingSidewinder "toggle radar PLM on or off". If you just type PLM you should find it. Also, you need to have the latest version of the VSN F-4. I don't believe it was available in the initial release👍

@GrowlingSidewinder

10 ай бұрын

@@frankbizzoco1954 got it thank you I'll do this for the next video.

You can really see the difference between these jets and 4th gen jets based on how big the 2 circle is. I felt like the planes were always really far apart in this fight, whereas any fight with a Viper or Flanker feels much closer. Awesome vid!

Back in about 1980 I went to my first air show at Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri, and I got to see a Phantom go straight up until I couldn't see it anymore.. I still think it's the coolest looking jet airplane design ever.

probably the best video youve made to date in terms of historical annoyances of aircraft

Nice to see GS have a competent opponent, even if they didn't get a kill. Toxic always puts up a great fight.

@ShovelMonkey

10 ай бұрын

What, are you saying that the "Two Morons" aren't competent?

always appreciate that you have a 4k version of the video

Generally, the only time the F fours scored kills on Mig- 21s and Mig-17s was by either sneaking up behind them, or if they were in a dogfight, taking them to the vertical, because the F4’s not turn with the Migs. My grandfather was an Air Force F4 pilot in Vietnam. His squadron (366 TFW / 390th TFS; out of Da Nang AB) was mainly tasked to night-bomb truck convoys in Laos.

Has there ever been a documented outcome of a dogfight where flares and/or chaff emitted from an aircraft have ever downed an enemy combatant?

Some fine work by Toxic. It's not easy to compete with the Phantom's sheer power.

Always a great video bro!

This early suboptimal missile technology makes for some very interesting dogfights as the pilots have to compensate the lackluster missiles performance with much better positioning of their aircraft in order to maximize the probability that they will work. Great fights!

@VikingTeddy

10 ай бұрын

Top Gun made such a huge difference. There is the persistent myth that it was the lack of the gun that was the issue (thanks history channel), but it had surprisingly little effect. Once the aviators were properly trained, everything changed and no more losses were suffered by the navy iirc. The Airforce however continued to initially perform poorly, even after they got the gun.

@LuisSoto-ho5fw

10 ай бұрын

@@VikingTeddy The gun became a priority largely because of Top Gun. The Air Force was slow to adopt a Dissimilar Air Combat program that focused purely on dogfighting. Even Red Flag focuses on mimicking enemy tactics rather than having the "Red Air" aggressors fly the best F-16 they can. The book "Top Gun" authored by Dan Pedersen (Top Gun founder) provides a lot of insight. In it he states that missile ineffectiveness wasn't just the missile's fault - or the inherent difficulties of maintaining them in working order in the harsh Southeast Asian environment - but also lack of understanding of the effective "cone" of detection for those things, as the commenter above noted.

@thesupreme8062

10 ай бұрын

The problem was hoe they were using the missiles not the missiles themselves.

@VikingTeddy

10 ай бұрын

@@LuisSoto-ho5fw Thanks for the tip, adding the book to my reading list.

Colonel Robin Olds said to never fight the MIG-21 above 15,000ft (horizontal fight). Above 15,000 ft the MIG-21 had a definitive turn advantage (delta wing). He and other F-4 pilots (TOP GUN) learned the MIG-21 has control issues above 595 kts at low level, whereas the F-4 flies perfect fine at M1.2 (794kts) @ 100ft. When the boys at TOP GUN tested the MIG-21, they discovered when a hard turn (break turn) was initiated, the MIG-21 had a deceleration of -3.5 Gs or in layman's words, it bled all the speed in country. When the Indian Air Force upgraded their 21s with a MIG-29 engine/canopy/R-73, their MIG-21s could scissor with an F-16, 60 degrees nose up from 10,000ft to 20,000ft @110kts. The F-4 was no match for the very slow fight with the 21. Ever see a Romanian MIG-21 demo? Loop after loop after loop at very low level. In the F-4, speed really is Life. GS, read "Scream of Eagles". Its the story of how TOP GUN was created and how they learned to fight the MIGs in the F-4. It is, in my opinion, the very best book on how to fly and fight in the F-4.

@rhysgoodman7628

8 ай бұрын

Interesting

That was awesome fellas, hats off to ya Toxic for making em work brother...Do it again!!!!

Great video as always!!

Just had an energy management/advantage masterclass, thanks man

Glad to see the Phantom on here. You fly it the way it was designed by using its superior ability to climb . After teaching our guys how to dogfight., It's kill ratio soared due to Top Gun. Memories of my misguided youth. 😂

Love the Vietnam-era stuff. As a suggestion, use the AIM-9B and R-3S for maximum fidelity to that era. Hopefully the HB Phantom will offer an AIM-9D/G/J option.

Operation BOLO being devastating is an understatement. Plenty of North Vietnamese pilots have attested to the fact that they never really recovered from its impact. Robin Olds is an Air Force legend. I really hop HEATBLUR incorporates him.

So I've heard that the F4E, the Phantom variant that Heatblur is currently working on, which _will_ be the official DCS Phantom, had Leading Edge Retractable Extensions & a nose mounted gun. The leading edge flaps made the previously doggy Phantom into a pretty good turn fighter. And the gun of course gave F4 drivers their confidence back in close range dogfights. What I hope is that Heatblur models the F4E with the gun and the enhanced agility. Would be a shame to get the F4E without the stuff that made it such an improvement.

I showed this video to my dad, he loves the Phantom and enjoyed seeing it splash some MiG’s

I AM LOVING THIS!!!! Thank You so much for sharing this! I love the F-4 Phantom in all of it's variants! Thank You, Thank You, THANK YOU!!

Operation Bolo is one of my favorite air combat operations of Vietnam. Col. Robin Olds was a badass chad, who was a triple ace and a WWII pilot that wanted to go to Korea, but was turned down and later got to go to Vietnam. The doctrine of the time was that missiles would do all the work, so you'd never have to get close enough to use guns, but that was proven to be false by Olds. The ruse by Olds for Operation Bolo was genius. You really should bring it up in depth in one of your future videos, because it proved to change the doctrine and keep it in place to this day, despite combat being BVR nowadays.

They called the Sparrow "The great white hope." They'd always fire 2 at a time in the hope that at least one would work and maybe scare the opposing pilot. 😂

Who does poor GS have to bribe to get a gun pod on his Phantom? I hear that ground crews love cold beer...

@barelmaker

10 ай бұрын

Heatblur whenever they release the F-4E

@beverlychmelik5504

10 ай бұрын

I hear that the AF has some in storage at Da Nang. I also hear that the weapons storage officer likes Johnny Walker.

There is a great book about Robin Olds, the guy who came up with operation Bolo called "Fighter Pilot". F-4 at this time was made to do what the MIG-21 was made to do, fly high, fast, shoot missiles at bombers. Not turn and burn, but the USAF, Navy and USMC made it work. I could just imagine the frustration. Also youtube has great show Dogfights about the F-4s in Vietnam.

Man I've been looking forward to seeing some F4 action over Vietnam, thanks to you and Toxic for making it happen.

I am Vietnamese and know well about the bolo campaign. We suffered a major defeat in that battle. Later we had to research very carefully before flying back into the sky

That heat blur version is Gonna be the new Tomcat easily. Keep these coming until then Sir.

I see you are flying "Showtime 100". Excellent!

Maybe an idea for the Mini-Doc channel, why the US felt that the in close dogfight was a thing of the past after Korea and thus in Vietnam sent F-4's in without a gun.

Nicely done Robin would be proud.

When the F-4 starts to shudder it sounds like an old typewriter.

Videos with toxic are a pleasure two watch! That guy have some mad moves

Remember for tea. .a cork floating in water is okay... With a candle ..a cork floating drinking alcohol with a candle would burn up the candle sooner. So there are so many things in the modern world you forget how to drink coffee or tea 6:46

Would like to see a F4 vs F5! I think that would be interesting

Love seeing the classic F-4 and Mig-21 Dogfight

Is there any info on the song that GS uses at the end of the video? Couldn't find anything in the description and my phone isn't giving me a title.

Would love to see a mission where you take off from a carrier...

Love seeing Ole Smokey in action!

Love the F4. Had the opportunity to work on them in the Corp. 82 to 89. VMFA 112/HMH 777.

Toxic is one of the better opponents you fly against. Really talented pilot.

7:43 Toxic holding on to that bucking bronco MIG that is on the verge of departing. Yeaaahh

how can you zoom in and out flexibly? Just look closer to yout head tracker or smth? Thanks

The F-4 you are flying, I had a model of it way back when I was a child. I miss that. lol I am old now...BTW, My favorite Fighter ever, the Phabulous Phantom!

Great video, N Viet MiG-21s didn't have flares so you had a challenge here! Thanks! - Doc

Historical matchups such as this are why I really hope Heatblur models some of the older weaponry & equipment the Phantoms carried. Imagine how much harder (and interesting) this would be if your all-aspect AIM-9Ps were instead caged, rear-aspect AIM-9Ds or even AIM-9Bs? THAT is what those early Phantom pilots over Vietnam experienced, must have been rough in a life or death situation.

@KeshikS2C

10 ай бұрын

Love to see some A6 Intruder in there.

Good episode. Thumbs up.

Great vids ... luv me some Double Ugly. Seems like the AIM-9s are working well for you ... maybe a little too well ... ?

Please try the F-104 again, using the same vertical / energy approach seen here. Keep it around M 0.9 (M 0.7 with flaps) and engage with climbing / spiraling tactics. You'll lose wing area vs. the F4, but will gain acceleration/climbing performance and .... a precious GUN! I think you'd do well vs the Mig 21.

@ShovelMonkey

10 ай бұрын

I'm always up for some F-104 action!

The MiG-21 looks like a jet engine with wings attached.

@goranstevanovic4724

10 ай бұрын

And F-104 is there to keep it company :-)!

I'd be curious to see a series of different American made fighters and interceptors v the Vietnamese Mig 17, 19, and 21. The F4 is the biggie, but the F5, F8, and A4 come to mind. I know the A4 was not intended in that role, but if I'm not mistaken, isn't there an A4 Mig kill with an unguided rocket?

@KillerKev1961

10 ай бұрын

Yes, I believe it was a Zuni

@ELITE-xn3sh

10 ай бұрын

@@KillerKev1961 a phantom had scored that zuni kill if i remember correctly? Let me know!

@doc7000

10 ай бұрын

I want to say that the F-100D also have a few kills as well as the F-105 and don't forget the F-101.

@minera7595

10 ай бұрын

I think he did F-5 VS MiG-21 a long time ago, but agree, would be so cool to see F-8 Crusader and F-100 Super Sabre get some actions!

@KeshikS2C

10 ай бұрын

Also some A6 Intruder and A7 Corsair would be cool.

Col. Olds was the dude both for coming up with the plan for Bolo and executing it.

id love to see f4 with guns at somepoint, love to see what that looks like

Scat XXVII, the actual F4 Robin Olds shot down Migs with in Bolo is on display at the Nation Air Force Museum in Dayton, OH. One of many, many historic aircraft there.

USAF Capt. Steve Richie got all five of his MiG kills with the AIM-7E-2 Sparrow in 1972.

well, ask the f15 pilot who tried to launch sparrows to a mig25. Damn missiles just stucked. GG sparrows

It now apply space to the furniture out in the sun a cloudy day .all hinges removed from the furniture.

Hey i'm thinking about getting dcs any recommendations for joystick? I was thinking the thrustmaster T.16000m flight Set because you recommended those in your setup video

Wouldn´t it be more interesting to fly the inferior craft? How would you go about in that Fishbed?

@GrowlingSidewinder

10 ай бұрын

Even I get tired of always flying the inferior aircraft and also if u were to use the mig21 u would simply refuse to dogfight and do hit and run.

@KillerKev1961

10 ай бұрын

@@GrowlingSidewinder Yes, the MiG-21 pilots almost always employed the hit and run vs the F-4. The strange thing about the North Vietnamese was that they only listened to GCA. Gee those early 'Winders sucked!!!!!

I can hear the History Channel's Dogfights incoming missile sound effect in my head

I been waiting a long time for the f4

Awesome vidoe, really enjoyable to watch hard work ACM rewarded with a kill👍🏻

What was that teletype sound in your Phantom?

F-4 sounds like a typewriter when you’re pulling hard G’s lol

I love the old skool dogfights.

What year was the first external gun pod added??

Two rounds, two wins, congrats. I'm still waiting for the Phantom vs. Viper fight.

I used to watch the history channel show dogfights. Still do on KZread. There was a F-4 pilot that would fire 2 missiles on 1 target so he would get a hit.

I have a question about your F-4. Do you have throttle control and air breaks ???

Silly question, what map are you using?

Robin Olds came up with ruse to trick the Migs to come up expecting thuds , but got nasty surprise of F-4s out for revenge . And it was served up. They flew in formations that the thuds would use ,altitude ,call signs , transponder frequencies etc Simple ,but they fell for it expecting a "turkey shoot" and realized too late that they were the "turkeys" History channel's "Dogfights" has an episode on this topic that recreates that event ,with names ,dates ,details worth watching .

That's why Col. Robin Olds and Capt. Steve Ritchie would fire two (2) Sparrows just in case the first one failed.

Makes you want to open the canopy and fire your side arms at him

I love your content and I watch all your videos. I do have request. A long time ago, when I was a kid, I read a book written by a P-47 pilot, namely the Razorback variant. He mentioned a tactic that I have never seen anyone on DCS attempt, and I wonder if it is really a thing or just a big fish story. He said that the German pilots, understanding that a P-47 couldn't turn with them, would immediately turn when they saw a P-47 approaching their six thus trying to force a two circle as you call it. The P-47 pilots, on seeing this, would dive away and extend since they knew it was a death sentence to try and turn with them, or so he said in the book. This pilot came up with a novel idea that he used instead which he claimed allowed him to score damages and even a kill or two. What he said he did was when he saw the German fighter turn, he wouldn't turn with them, and instead rolled inside their turn taking what you call a high aspect shot. He would then simply dive and extend away if he missed because Germain fighters couldn't dive as fast as the P-47. He didn't say what kind of roll he used, but I assume he used a barrel roll. Is this a tactic that could actually work, or a literary embellishment? I would love to see you try it and or even hear your thoughts.

This is the same sortie as described however Operation BOLO was flown by the U.S. Air Force but the paint scheme flown by GS is the U.S. Navy

Special request, fire a fox 2 as you’re entering the merge next video. It would be interesting to see if an opponent would expect or be able to dodge it

What's the staccato sound in the cockpit we here every now and then? Pump for g-suit?

The F-4 Phantom: The World's Leading Distributor of MiG Parts.

The only safe way is to remove any hard ware cloth from your furniture and magnets holding doors shut and then take the furniture outside the house then let the furniture stay there

i smell you wanted revenge from the other video lol

The world's greatest distributor of Mig parts :)

Given all his assists, does Toxic have a KZread or Twitch channel we could be watching?

@hkguitar1984

10 ай бұрын

Ditto

@GrowlingSidewinder

10 ай бұрын

No sorry anyone who has a KZread channel I would promote. If I’m not promoting one in the video it’s because they don’t have one.

@hkguitar1984

10 ай бұрын

@@GrowlingSidewinder Clarification Appreciated, Thank You

@GrowlingSidewinder

10 ай бұрын

my pleasure.

Video suggestion: I know you don’t really to tutorials but I’m that person who doesn’t have DCS but will kill for it and I I love your content so I wanted a typhoon tutorial from you?