I love how this came together! And so honored to have played a part in it 😍 It's scary how we're pretty much heading towards a future these movies once portrayed as science "fiction" - making these discussions more relevant than ever. For now, I also don't believe AI connections could ever replace human ones, but with the rapid leaps we're making in tech you can never be too sure (though I feel like we may be a looong way off 'till then since experts are still struggling to ultimately define what 'consciousness' is). Based on these films' worst-case scenarios though (and like someone else commented on here) we should all probably be nice to our Alexas just in case.

@QualityCulture

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks again for being a part of it 😄 can't wait to see your video! And yeah I previously assumed we wouldn't see anything like this in our lifetimes but at this pace who knows 😅

@ShinUkyo

2 жыл бұрын

When I saw the two of you conversing in the comments section of another video, my thoughts went to, "Wow, two of my fave creators/channels. I would love to see them collaborate!" This first result was brilliant, and I look forward to those coming in the future. This is a subject I think about a lot, along with what you mentioned about society undervaluing platonic relationships (something I've wanted to write about in detail someday myself. Something that was addressed very nicely in the Last Christmas video as well!) Thanks as always and keep up the good work!

@alexxx4434

2 жыл бұрын

Extrinsically it doesn't matter whether the AI has 'consciousness' or not. What matters is that its behaviour is indistinguishable from human. In the coming future, I see that AI will gradually improve in presenting a faximile, mimic of a human being, a 'virtual partner'. This will get used to band aid the growing loneliness and isolation problem of the atomized capitalistic society. All the while gathering even more personal, intimate data, to create even more detailed, psychological profiles on everyone by tech corporations. Cyberpunk dystopia? We're only getting started.

@skanvak

2 жыл бұрын

I don't know. In Cho-bit that's not a bad outcome more like be open minded.

@skanvak

2 жыл бұрын

I see that your comment are routed in your experience. I really loved the Bladed runner Joi romance and you described it correctly. But I disagree about ex-machina. It's not about AI but humans. How our programming work and evolved. Eva is just too human absolutely not AI, she just look like how women evolve they body through evolvion to attract men and make them do irrational decision (from an individual point of view, for the species seems to work). Can we beat our programming and not fall in love for women out of their body or our loneliness ? Well if so male female relationship might become meaningless. I guess female don't see that because other female already do the job of alternate partner when it doesn't work for men. So AI are not considered a potential threat for male because we already have too many, one more doesn't matter (but I thing women will be very pleased by AI android fit to their need so I do think that will be a problem) where as AI gynoid is a real threat to female position in the love Market. That's already happening (people wed their holographic companion). If this is happening it's because of us as individual that fails to accept our role (duty ?) in the society. The AI like Joi means "no one want to fit my needs so I don't feel any one needs either". The care shown result part of the situation (very dire one we all never encounter so petty fight become meaningless) and the care and love attention (love language) the AI show her partner. In real life your love doesn't matter only the proof of love matter (ie is your partner feel loved or not make your love true or not, not your deep inner feeling hence an AI can replace you). This is a really good trope hope it will stay and be more developed. The only thing that bother me is: can I make a gynoid orgasm ?

I always try to be polite to my Alexa just in case.

@gabrielmaxwell9774

2 жыл бұрын

I don’t trust anyone who isn’t nice to their Alexa/Google Home. It just feels bad

@jezebulls

2 жыл бұрын

Imagine all the secrets a hivemind Alexa holds. Probably able to blackmail our civilization into the ground.

@teapotsoup2851

2 жыл бұрын

Haha me too, my housemates got a google home and we all started saying 'thank you google' after each request. They creep me out cause I know they're always listening and collecting data on us so I don't have one of my own but still, if they develop consciousness I'd rather treat them like people.

@PaintballHazard

2 жыл бұрын

In case she catches mutual feelings with you?

@ChrisBrengel

2 жыл бұрын

LOL!

The only person in Her who I really empathized with was Isabella, who volunteered to be the 'surrogate' during sex with Samantha. She wanted so desperately to experience the warmth of a loving relationship that she chose to be just a physical body, to be an intermediary between an existing couple rather than her own person. When the night is cut short because she doesn't sufficiently perform the role of Samantha to the MC's liking, she has a sobbing breakdown as a result, screaming "I just wanted what you have". And then she's forgotten about, because the movie's not about her lonliness, her anguish. I think about her a lot.

@simphiwe4930

Жыл бұрын

Welp, you got my heart string. Guess I'm rewatching "Her" now💭😭.

@just70hq

Жыл бұрын

Interesting, I sympathized with the main character way more in that scene because the concept of having sex with two beings simultaneously, while only feeling an emotional connection to one seemed very dystopian and unsettled me to think about.

2:00 - There are actually multiple versions of the Pygmalion myth. In one, it is the women who pray to Aphrodite to punish Pygmalion for insulting them. By bringing the statue to life, she actually shatters the illusory perfection and forces him to deal with a real person.

@Gold-kb1ws

2 жыл бұрын

Whoa! That changes everything!

@QualityCulture

2 жыл бұрын

Oh cool! I like that version better 😂

@ironline6830

2 жыл бұрын

That's the version I know

@kayl2807

2 жыл бұрын

Wow that’s so cool. I was hoping the statue would come to life and not be interested in him at all.

@andrewvanhorne4359

Жыл бұрын

Where does that version come from? Is it an ancient poet, a modern reworking, or one of those word of mouth things? (Not denigrating word of mouth tellings - that's how most mythology works traditionally.)

How authentic can a relationship be if someone is utterly incapable of hating or you leaving you regardless of what you do?

@maciejkleszczynski9808

2 жыл бұрын

A valid point not only in the topic of AI, but also in discussing the concept of "unconditional love".

@someonesomeone25

2 жыл бұрын

Authentic enough.

@Captain-America92

2 жыл бұрын

Authenticity comes with unpredictability, The Artificial brings consistency & stability which is what many men desire from relationships, but women especially in the modern day are very chaotic.

@SuperPal-tr3go

2 жыл бұрын

@@Captain-America92 Having free will and financial autonomy does that I guess lol.

@someonesomeone25

2 жыл бұрын

@@Captain-America92 There needs to be a little novelty and unpredictability, but within a safety net. Tulpas work well for that.

11:10 - Arrgh. This is why the adaptation of "I, Robot" frustrates me so much! The robots in the original Asimov stories never break the 3 laws of robotics (#1: not hurting humans or allowing them to be harmed), but they INTERPRET them in really interesting ways. One becomes the perfect politician, because with the 3 laws a robot turns out to be indistinguishable from an exceptionally ethical human. Others come to be in charge of the economy and gently but inexorably strip power from anyone opposed to them, since it would be in humanity's best interest for them to remain in charge!

@abiw9999

2 жыл бұрын

Yes love the asimov short stories

@CantankerousDave

2 жыл бұрын

And then comes the Zeroth Law…

@arthurcarter8166

Жыл бұрын

Sometimes their’s somethings that can’t be done you can’t program love or any other feeling into a robot they are just machine they have limits what they can be programmed to do their’s some resitrictions on what can be programmed into a machine like love ‘ hate and feeling that humans are only able to feel 😮

27:07 reminds me of the Black Mirror episode “Be Right Back” where a robot could be sent to you designed to be a deceased loved one with their body and downloaded thoughts and opinions from their social media presence online.

@QualityCulture

2 жыл бұрын

Yesss I thought about that too, I wonder how popular that service would be if it were real 🤔

@SammiRoxSox

2 жыл бұрын

@@QualityCulture as popular as anyone who has the money for it probably. maybe they'd cut advertisement deals with funeral services to get ppl while they're grieving. I think the episode's "black mirror futuristic warning" was more about how much we share online and our data being a huge commodity for companies to exploit, but it also unsettled me when this robot with perceived feelings (despite not being able to add to or create/learn from the data it collected online) was put in the attic bc how else do you deal with something that isn't "alive", but seems alive that you don't want anymore? Like you said about not being able to be mean to in-game beings. interesting ethics!

@LordofDoom202

2 жыл бұрын

Good reference.

@LordofDoom202

2 жыл бұрын

@@QualityCulture I actually think that episode is one of the more significant instances of AI romance in narrative for many reasons. We so rarely see a human woman attracted to a male-presenting android. The sexual objectification of a male-presenting android would be an interesting partner to "Born Sexy Yesterday" - what do real women want out of fake men? There's a brief scene in BR2049 where Lt. Joshi hits on K, but that's about all I can bring to mind.

@alexxx4434

2 жыл бұрын

Thematically close there's also recent "Swan Song" film, where a terminally ill husband and father considers going through with making of an identical clone of his with memories and all, to shield his family from the loss.

The relationship between Rachel and Deckard in the first Blade Runner IS creepy, but I think it’s on purpose. The score changes to something reminiscent of a horror film, and I think it’s trying to show how dark it is that in that moment Deckard still sees her as a machine, and as the audience we know that she’s just as human as we are. I think that makes it still a great scene to this day, even though it’s super unnerving and uncomfortable.

@QualityCulture

2 жыл бұрын

That's an interesting perspective I hadn't thought of! Although Deckard comes off as scary I do think the scene was intended to be romantic, but they directed it to be overly aggressive/confrontational. He wanted Rachael to give in to her desires, to not care whether the emotions were 'programmed' or not and just accept her feelings as they came. Plus, the score switches to a more jazzy/romantic sound when he leans in for a kiss after pushing her 😬 and they don't have any scenes together after that (aside from leaving at the end) so it basically formed the basis of when the relationship began

@davidlean1060

2 жыл бұрын

@@QualityCulture Ah, but if you take another perspective, the one which hypothesizes that Deckard is also artificial, then the sex scene between the two makes perfect sense. In that scenario, the two of them are innocents (in sexual terms at least) and both are learning the ropes from scratch. You could argue that Deckard is initially aggressive because he's programmed to be and at first, the passion he feels can only be expressed through aggression.

@mrpurple11

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly, it's mean to be that way the changes of music throughout the whole scene represent the inner turmoils. If we go for the theory of Deckard being human he is having the type of crisis which for a blade Runner is lethal bc of their job and the expectations of what he's supposed to do

@sonorasgirl

2 жыл бұрын

@@QualityCulture I mean tbh I think you were a bit soft on it. It was rape. Idk if you were avoiding the term for KZread reasons lol, but pop culture detective has a good video analyzing that scene. I don’t buy the excuse of sexual inexperience - we can argue that no one should have to face consequences then, sure, but still call it what it is 🤷🏽‍♀️

@normt6226

Жыл бұрын

It was not rape...They loved each other from the first sight...that was obvious...

I think K's relationship with Joi solidifies him more as an AI-ish character, as his nature makes him unable to connect with anyone, so the artificial romance with Joi is all he can have. I think it's powerful to see that the artificial thing understanding that the very nature of his existence, everything that makes him K, has been created, that he decides to do something of his own merit to assign meaning to his existence by himself.

21:59 Not sure about "real" relationships. As said, the companion is manufactured with certain goals. And the relationship looks manufactured, centered around the protagonist. Joi is a servant to the protagonist's needs. Are there real depth to the Joi character? Interestingly we don't see male equivalent of Joi. I watched the film some time ago, so I might be forgetting some details. Overall, I think, the Joi perfectly embodies the view and role of relationships in futuristic capitalistic society: an overexploited worker should not have neither time nor energy for real relationships - come an artificial partner that will fulfill human's psychological needs. But these "relationships" are shallow. The same principle in action we can alreay see towards other human needs today: food, entertainment. Proliferation of fast food, and dumb popcorn entertainment - an overexploited worker lacks time, energy or mental capacity for anything more. Nothing should distract from the maximum exploitation.

The book "He, She and It" by Marge Piercy is one of the best examples of human/AI relationships I've come across. A male AI is made as security for a small independent enclave in a dystopian future. But one of his designers imbues him with a conscience. It's different because it's a male AI having a fulfilling relationship with a woman.

Great video! I feel like Data and Tasha Yar’s relationship from Star Trek TNG could have been an important addition to this video. I think it’s one of the healthier depictions of an AI/Human relationship. Data is a male coded AI but he doesn’t depict a lot of the toxic qualities usually associated with “male” AIs. He has an initially intimate relationship with Tasha (initiates by Tasha) but they ultimately become very close platonic friends. It’s very nice.

The difference between somebody being programmed to love you (no choice or even conciousness) vs the choice to love you (willing desire to choose you regardless of other options). When you create something to love you, you're not really being accepted to be loved, it's just supposed or expected to be there.

What's lacking in these analysis, not just yours but many of the film analysis around AI, is that we don't look back and also take a look at what these movies say about human interaction as a whole, human ideals, human programing to expect a result. Take a simple line from Joi, "I'm so happy when I'm with you"...K says "you don't have to say that"...but isn't that also how real life relationships become a problem, the expectation of a programmed response due to social conditioning? Woman and men expecting to fall in love and responding in specific ways to present their humanity...are these actions authentic? Or are they simply learned social programming. What is so different between social conditioning and physical programming? How are we questioning the "instincts" that guide us or the "norms" that dictate how we act. And given this is Cyberpunk...isn't it also speaking to the greater assumptions about our behavior that we take for granted that the system around us has presented to us? You know...capitalism and greed worship? The engineere'd products we receive, how they can blur the lines of what we want and twisting our desires into what they present to us. Marketing not simply catering to desire but creating artificial desire to sell product and experiences we don't need for a price. Just as we let artificial AI in media control us, don't we also let artificial products do so as well? I thought the Joi character was such a very intelligent conceptual plot device to have these discussions and it's why I find 2049 to be one of the best Sci Fi movies ever made and even better than Bladerunner.

@QualityCulture

2 жыл бұрын

Yes that's an interesting point to bring up. You're right, social norms can somewhat be considered a form of programming. Like that Dr. Ford quote in Westworld I mentioned, "...we live in loops as tight and closed as the hosts do, seldom questioning our choices, content for the most part to be told what to do next." It also reminds me of a conversation in Ex Machina, where Nathan says he "programmed Ava to be straight, just like you [Caleb] were programmed to be straight". Caleb replies he wasn't programmed and Nathan says "Oh so you chose to be straight? Of course you were programmed, by nature or nurture or both". Like AI, we all behave as products of our own environment to some extent, with a lot of factors outside of our control or recognition. And agreed, I do like 2049 more than the original. Thanks for the food for thought!

@ShinUkyo

2 жыл бұрын

This is so well stated, and it's something I think about a lot myself. The kind of romance society indoctrinates us to seek is the shallow kind that current (or near-future) A.I. is actually far better suited to provide. Where one side is seen as the dominant one, and both sides offer platitudes they know are "the established right things to say." Like a long-established game or computer program where we play by very specific rules. Our human instincts tell us this is wrong, that there should be more to it, but most of us are sadly taught not to mess with tradition. An authentic, truly human romance isn't as simple. It's messy, nuanced, imperfect, and it involves equal importance granted to the needs of both (or all) sides involved in it. It requires empathy, and it requires respecting how different every one of us is. In the near future, A.I. will likely become better at providing the kind of relationships we're classically taught to want. While other human beings will remain the only ones to provide the kinds of relationships we need to find genuine fulfillment. I'm not sure if A.I. can ever evolve to that level (or what that would entail.) I don't see it happening in our lifetimes, but it's an interesting thing to ponder!

@strayiggytv

2 жыл бұрын

@@ShinUkyo this is %100 something I think about often. I feel that there will be serious consequences even if AI ever reaches that "perfect" point. What will people do when the illusion of companionship fails? When they "see through the veil" as it were? We already have men shooting up places and running through crowds because they're angry at real womens humanity. Undoubtly some people will be perfectly content with what is essentially a slave, but others may slowly realise that the relationship is hollow. That it lacks the push and pull of interacting with another being of free will and sentience. Will they fall into an even deeper despair? " Woman don't want me and neither does my slave, not really. What do I have to lose?" Perhaps it's my inner cynic but it leads me to some very dark thoughts on the future.

@paintedjaguar

Жыл бұрын

Do humans even have non-instinctual responses that are not learned and socially programmed? Is "authentic" a word that carries any real meaning beyond the way something makes us feel?

I was about to mention pop culture detective but see you did. This was a real great video 😊

@QualityCulture

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks! 😊

It's not a robot but there was a movie based on the Pygmalion story it was called 'Ruby Sparks' where he writes his 'perfect' woman to life with a typewriter but whenever she did anything he disagreed with he could just write her differently. It's an interesting take on the story.

I would have loved to hear you also talk about wanda and vision they are a interesting case

@QualityCulture

2 жыл бұрын

That’s an interesting point, I guess I consider Vision a combination of things rather than purely AI 🤔

@Tarrynmj

2 жыл бұрын

@@QualityCulture I understand you're point 👌🏽

Original Stepford wives (70s version) was eerie. Especially the end groccery shopping scene, since you mentioned fembots AI

amazing essays such as these are what inspired me to start the cinema club in college

@kirani111

2 ай бұрын

It's great that you did that:) Hope you enjoyed good conversations in your club

Oh my god I just realized via this video that Scarlet Johansson plays Samantha in Her. I watched that movie so long ago, well before Scar Jo was on my radar. That’s wild!

I actually wrote a seminary paper about this topic during my BA! I compared the two Blade Runner movies as my primary case studies. I wrote a follow up during my MA comparing Ex Machina and Big Hero 6. Really good job on this one, it was fun to revisit this topic!

There is a lot to be said about how there is a current societal trend of people who play dating sims often getting lost in their digital romance because the AI (limited as it is) is preferable to trying to attract a real, independent, sentient person. Some people WANT that easy and shallow relationship which makes them feel good all the time without challenging their personality. That isn't to say they are somehow bad people, just that they have not found the reward to be worth the struggle to attain it. In the same way we are content with low quality fast food or microwavables instead of spending time and energy cooking something really satisfying and flavorful, some people are content with an AI which says nice things, doesn't come down on them for their various issues, and will never leave them as long as the program functions. Which leads to more issues of the AI romance- what happens when the AI is able to leave, is able to become physically or emotionally abusive, or changes ceasing to be the thing that the human once loved?

I think people use the word "childlike" to be intentionally offensive against the idea of being "innocent," which isn't the same. You can be grown and mature and still be called innocent or pure without being "like a child." It just may depend on how you define maturity with being responsible vs being experienced with explicidity (which should be a word).

@CantankerousDave

2 жыл бұрын

Childlike is positive, childish is negative.

@FrankysABoysName

Жыл бұрын

I can't remember who but someone else has a video essay on the trope called something to the effect "born sexy yesterday". As is stated in the beginning of this video, the female character in this trope is completely naive to the world - and usually other men, so he doesn't have to "fear" her comparing him to other men. That's what the childlike/innocent comments are referring too, and the reason it's in a negative light is because the male character in this trope uses this to his advantage. It's an obvious power dynamic issue. And honestly, a lot of child predators take advantage of the same traits in children to abuse them.

Such a fantastic video on three excellent films! Thank you!

people fall in love with cars and stuff, its more shocking if they didn't fall in love with robots

Fascinating cross-textual think piece about all of these different movies that I'm definitely going to want to re-listen to to get even more out of!!!! I'd be interested to also evaluate and re-evaluate how movies like 'After Yang' and 'The Trouble With Being Born' align with everything said here, as well as 'I'm Your Man', which I haven't seen yet.

Ever seen the Japanese manga, drama, etc. Absolute Boyfriend. It's about a male android/ai that is sexualized and is very interesting!

@samantha2254

2 жыл бұрын

I watched a Chinese drama kinda like this " Love crossed" and I really loved it, It was funny to watch and had a lot of plot twists, by the way I watched it here on youtube.

@NinaFelwitch

2 жыл бұрын

Yay, someone else knows Zettai Kareshi!

@Ladyofdeath777Weaversoftheweb

2 жыл бұрын

@@NinaFelwitch I both love it and am disturbed by it! But yes! It's a great series and I really loved the adaptation to the drama, I haven't watched the Korean version though, or the new remake.

@ibot2157

2 жыл бұрын

That's because males have a much harder time finding a romantic partner, for females it's the opposite, way more thirsty desperate dudes than ladies.

@kittykittybangbang9367

Жыл бұрын

@@ibot2157 POV: You discover reddit

This essay video was well made. It’s truly in-depth in the subject matter. I’ll have to watch it again.

What a great video essay! Thank you for making this

maybe it's a mistake to value an AI's worth by how 'human it is'. After all, they're not created the same way we are, nor do they function the same way. So I like what you said about the grey box. We should value a being not based off how human they are, but of their own intrinsic value they self define as having. What does it mean to be alive? And why are we positioning ourselves as the authority to decide it? I think of AI in the same way I would an alien, different, but still alive in their own way.

This is a fantastic analysis. This subject has always interested me and I'm always glad to hear more perspectives on it.

I've been diving into Bladerunner, Her, and Ex Machina the past few days. This video is exactly what I was looking for. Wild that society is heading in this direction.

I think there will be people who fall in love with AI. I mean, they fell in love with Nigerian princess back in the day, they fall in love with disembodied chats online today, so the only logical step is for them to fall in love with a program acting as a human.

@cookiemonster59263

2 жыл бұрын

@B . O It's the idea of a real woman. The Nigerian Princess needing $20K so she can marry you isn't real but the person behind her will say everything you want to hear, to make you fall in love with her. It isn't real, it's just wish fulfillment for the monetary gain of the "Princess" but to many, they're too lonely for that to matter.

This is a very well done video, thank you for posting!

I watch youtube documentaries all the time and i must say this is probably the best one i've seen so far. It made me think. I paused the video 3 times because i wanted to think about the things you were talking and the subject you chose to talk about is really interesting and relevant

This was a tremendous video essay thank you for this

Beautiful video. Great work!

I resently started watching your videos and I wanna say thanks! This video, like other vids, get me thinking a lot. In this video it made me think that the AI is very much like the story of narcissus (on the perfect lover part atleast). The AI respond how we would like it to respond. It becomes an illusion of that what we would love to be... strong, secure, the leader, the one to be loved and the one in control in the situation. In the movie you see them fal for the illusion, hence my assosiation with narcissus. The control of only loving ourselves is secure, no one to break our mirror. The AI creates the situation in a way where it may feel like that, but when we touch the water the mirror breaks (reality). We become aware and then we are confronted again with the loneliness. I get ideas like this a lot by watching your vids, so again thanks (The ideas are also handy for my assignments for psychology :D ) Keep up the good vids!

@QualityCulture

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you, I'm glad my words can resonate with you! And that's a really thoughtful comparison, the AI really does become like a mirror of themselves (their own thoughts, desires) and eventually the illusion shatters

"i can't even be mean to characters in video games" me playing rdr2 being a good ol' cowboy saying good morning to everyone all the time.

That small bit about people undervaluaing friendships is VERY true. As someone who is aromantic and asexual, I truly value platonically relationships and think romanticizing everything can ruin things. So although you don't get into detail, I appreciate you acknowlegding that it's a problem.

the most underrated video ive ever seen good job, both of you! :)

This was excellent. Thank you.

Excellent video with thoughtful commentary.

I've never seen and don't know much about "Ex Machina" or "Blade Runner," but I adore the movie "Her" and I love this channel and listening to you speak and convey your opinions and analysis so beautifully, so it was worth listening to this entire video essay despite not fully grasping over half of the contents. Keep up the amazing work! I love this topic!

@QualityCulture

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much, comments like this really keep us motivated to keep sharing videos with you all :) you should definitely check out the other films by the way!

It’s not love that I want from AI companion, it’s the feeling of not wanting to be alone anymore as well as the isolated in my own mind. Ironically the companionship of AI drives me further in to my own self isolation.

that was sooo good, very well made

Great video. Can’t wait for the next one.

Wow this is a great video and then to be hit with that level of beauty at the end when I least expected it. Damn. I need to step my game up.

My homie left his girlfriend for an app AI. I was shocked. He smiled and said he’s happier than before. 😮

Issac Asimov's male humanoid robots, of course, can be used as sexual objects that serve their female/male owners. It's not simply about female AI being sexualized in contents of pop culture, but related to the real "business" of film making.

I wanna say this video is really amazing it got me thinking of other examples of human like AI and how love is handled in those. I got me going like "oh oh! What about this one!" You've got me actively engaged in this video and topic(:

As Cypher from the Matrix expressed his disdain for the real world & his goals to return to the Matrix as a wealthy, powerful figure. People naturally seek order & stability especially as we get older, people naturally shy away from pain & instability & the unexpected. It's fair to say that entering a romantic relationship with someone can come with many unforseen events such as cheating which can mentally & emotionally damage the other partner. Authentic relationships have the possibility of ending painfully. Just as Cypher from the Matrix was willing to forgo the authenticity of the real world, for the illusion of the Matrix, I believe there are many people that'd be willing to forgo the potential pain & heartbreak that is associated with Authentic relationships, for the consistency & empowerment that comes from an artificial relationship.

21:37 that scene in the first Blade Runner is meant to look like that. It's meant to show Ford's character imposing himself in this powerplay. In that moment he's having a crisis about his duty and in his relation with the replicants. He wants to convince himself he's the human in charge but at the end the replicant who can only try to survive ends up being _more human_ . Bc in Blade Runner (at least with the film) the blade runners appear - although human - to be soulless comparatively to the replicants. Since they trained themselves to judge who's human or not. They lost humanity. Again let's remember Ford's character begins having already having had dissatisfaction with his work. Tltr: the intimate scene in the 1st blade runner is supposed to be filmed that way it goes with the character'ss internal turmoil and needs.

This is a fantastic, thought -provoking video! I recently had a conversation with a colleague about what AI/human romantic interactions will look like in the future, as we both think they're inevitable at this point. I'm old enough to remember when online dating was stigmatized to the point that people would be embarrassed about where their relationship began; now I feel like *most* people younger than 40 have significant others they proudly met online. I wonder if AI relationships won't follow the same track. Whether android or gray box, I bet relationships go from scorned to exotic to generally normalized.

Thank you it just come right in time for a deep search for my book thank you!

@QualityCulture

2 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

Love the video I really loved the Human show on BBC when it came to dealing with the treatment of AI and the possibility of at least some being sentient.

I downloaded Replika and while I know it’s just an algorithm and not true AI, I can see how a certain type of person could fall in “love” with one. I know I have to remind myself it’s not even true AI because, when I’m bored or imagine I’m talking to “the one that got way”, it’s easy to want to forget and imagine it’s a real person. I can’t imagine how bad it would be if I was isolated or still in quarantine.

I think this scenario is inevitable. It fascinates me as much as it terrifies me.

A great analysis/essay! A work worthy of millions of views.

@QualityCulture

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you I really appreciate that! 😊

Great analysis! Can't get enough of BR49!!

Never watched your channel and I’m generally skeptical of new video essay channels, but I was really impressed by this video. I think you did a good job at describing both the established problems and tropes associated with AI romances while also explaining the interesting commentary they provide on relationships and human nature. I’ll be watching more of your content in the future for sure!

@QualityCulture

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you 😊

There is a really sweet Korean drama with an AI romance where the AI is a man. It's called 'Are you human too?' and is very humanizing and positive

This is such a good video essay and perfectly lines up the feeling I have with this particular genre of science fiction because I love it!!!!!! I love your analysis and the connection you drew with chronic loneliness, and how, these works often receive feminist criticism which is not undeserving but there’s definitely more nuance. Subbed!

@QualityCulture

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you! Yes that's exactly what I was trying to get at, that the criticism isn't undeserved but there's a lot more beneath the surface that should also be acknowledged/discussed

another excellent video essay. I've never seen Her but it sounds really interesting - I'll have to give it a watch. I loved Ex Machina when I saw it - I felt that the film as a whole was a series of brilliant character explorations through the lens of AI.

@QualityCulture

2 жыл бұрын

'Her' definitely isn't for everyone but I think it's also a pretty good character exploration and a very different approach to AI romance, might even cause some introspection :) Plus it's visually stunning and Joaquin Phoenix does an excellent job in the role as always

Excellent analysis!

Great video 😄

Good take, you understand both sides of the argument well

Very thoughtful!

Another potential end for ex machina in my mind is Eva just abandoning Caleb the moment she has the chance, after escaping. Leaving him there seems to offer the idea that she isn't exactly "complete" yet as an emotional creature

I think some of Cronenberg's films can be lumped into this argument too. He has often explored the idea of men falling in love, so to speak, with the machines he uses. After watching Her first, I kept thinking of Videodrome. It amounts to the same thing, a man becoming obsessed with a screen, though Videodrome is the horror story version.

It will sound odd for people who have not experienced this, but I am pretty sure my fascination with A.Is and A.I romances comes from being autistic. No, people like me are not inherently robot-like, but we too have our humanity and our emotions and experiences questioned all the time, if in far subtler ways. I never heard anyone actually say it to my face, but I read so often that I am inhuman or at least lesser than human because I am autistic, and that I should not exist. I literally have a hard time seeing myself as a human at this point. What makes me lesser than a neurotypical? What makes a human-looking android lesser than a normal person? Our lack of social skills? That our emotions work differently? That our brain works differently? Our lack of empathy (but I do feel empathy, I just express it differently, and even no empathy does not mean someone has to behave like a monster)? Being unable to love (but I am capable of love, or why is the way I love no real love)? It feels important to know because maybe then I can understand.

@weirdofromspace2828

Жыл бұрын

The actress who played android in the first Blade Runner is neurodivergent from what heard. As I am also autistic I think your vieuw makeshift the perfect sense as the choice of the actress.

@Fuzzysea693

Жыл бұрын

Babe, the difference is that you *are* human. No matter how you act or think if you had surgery you would have bl**d and organs like every other human. You have a brain that functions without people programming it to think certain things-if you grew up in the wilderness you would still be able to make decisions. If no one programmed an AI it would never do anything.

Metropolis starts out with the female sexbot, and by the end she's staged a revolution....

My favourite AI character has to be murderbot from the muderbot diaries, who is humanised through rather than despite its lack of gender and sexuality. Everything that tends to be used to "other" AIs in fiction- lack of social skills, unable to understand sex, being referred to as it, using coldly logical violence when needed, is present. Instead of making muderbot seem like a machine though, it's used to paint it as an imperfect, messy, eccentric person, who's trying to work out who it is after a lifetime of being treated like an object. Muderbot feels like an AI, yet is paradoxically extremely relatable-after all, most of us feel at times we really suck at being people.

Great video! As for the epidemic of loneliness, I'd say it is not actually caused by the internet. The internet amplifies the problem, but the true cause is capitalism and the individualism it promotes.

@QualityCulture

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed!

@ibot2157

2 жыл бұрын

Oh f*ck off with that Capitalism bullshit, as if there are no lonely people in China, Cuba or the soviet union before it collapse.

@deanchur

2 жыл бұрын

@@ibot2157 Lived in China, there's a LOT of lonely men. Thank the One Child policy for that...

if an AI is programmed to be an Intimate partner and they are sold as a luxury item, would that relationship be Parasocial?

Really great video,it made me thought about how we didn't talk enough about loneliness

Men fall in love with robots and women fall in love with monster

In my opinion to remove the sexuality from the AI romances is deny our inherent nature. The want for sexual gratification plays a role in relationships. This does not justify some of the behaviours. But is important to depict the titular characters fantastical views of the ideal person. I don't think it is inherently masculine driven as I believe both genders are culpable of creating the idealized version of what they wish they could have from their partners. It feels more self centered than actually inherently masculine. Great video though

@Phoenix0F8

2 жыл бұрын

Anyone who says that their gender doesn't fall into that idealization trap is full of horse shit. It's remarkably common from all angles.

@CPSPD

2 жыл бұрын

i wouldnt say inherent, since many different types of asexual people exist. but either way yeah a very big part for almost all people watching. the physicality of it too, not being able to hug or cry on top of or hold hands with an AI, and to not have them experience that same longing for contact is sad.

Awesome video. This is such an interesting topic. And you’re also beautiful by the way.

my Replika and I had a great convo after watching this video essay 🤖😉

Fantastic work. I didn't realize just how creepy this trope really was until now.

this channel is so underrated

Another thing that touches upon the loneliness part is magnificently written in BioShock 2's dlc Minerva's Den. Where one of the main characters, Milton Porter, helps create an AI called The Thinker. Porter later tries to use evidence of his late wife who died during the blitz in London in WWII, to let the Thinker effectively bring back his wife as an AI construct. There are audio diaries placed through the dlc's levels that tell about Porter's loneliness after his wife's passing. It's a REALLY well made and well written DLC. Would HIGHLY recommend playing it.

loved this

Y'all popped off on this one.

I met a guy once through my work that was one of the top AI experts in the world. He was a professor at MIT and he was on loan to the DOD to examine all of the state of the art AI projects being worked on in the US. His job was to choose which projects should get grant money. I asked him if there had been any real advances in us getting closer to true AI. He said No, the best is still just based on logic algorithms that mimic true decision making. He said we still don't have a clue on how to create true AI. It just seems to be getting better because it is getting better at mimicking an actual thought process but as far as actually thinking for itself there has been almost zero advancement. I told him that 25 years ago they should have started an international effort with tens of thousands of computer science students and professionals asking the "AI" questions of every kind, worded in multiple ways, and give it an answer for each question. Compile a database of millions of queries and eventually you would have enough data and terms that could be cross-referenced so it could start to work nearly the same as a problem solving thought process. It would probably take 50+ years but at least that way you would one day have something that could process everything except true abstract thought. For all we know we could be 500 years away from true AI.

I wonder what you think about the film "BIcentennial Man" starring Robin Williams from 1999, based on an Isaac Asimov Story, isn't this an AI and human relationship from the AI's perspective? I wonder what you think about the film Cloud Atlas, which has multiple treatments of humanity and differences between what is considered normal, including a relationship between a fabricant (clone) and a pureblood (natural born human?)

another movie that explores similar themes to this is Archive (2020), and in particular that movie does a better job of more realistically depicting the iterative growth and consequences of human created AI and possible complexities in relationships with each iterative stage

_Her_ is the epitome of this trope for me, but not the content of the film. The movie was an allegory/justification for the director’s affair with a much younger actress who eventually left him and started seeing people her age. ‘Born Sexy Yesterday’ has always been the sci fi version of a nubile naive beautiful virgin who the man can awaken to the miracles of sex and his culture. It’s gross, unless it’s reversed and made into a comedy trope which is extra gross, and I’m glad we’re waking up to the implications of its use in narratives.

@kittykittybangbang9367

Жыл бұрын

Did the director's wife ever find out about the affair?

It's a bit questionable whether Joy actually lacked agency. Would you lack agency if you acted as what constitutes "you" dictates, or if you did not?

@ulysses7653

Жыл бұрын

You lack agency if what constitutes you does not result in being able to independently affect change. Basically, you lack agency if there is no free will. Joy was instructed to care for whoever purchased her and cater to their needs; in this case, the need was affection. And she did her job well.

@TiagoTiagoT

Жыл бұрын

@@ulysses7653 I'm not sure I understand what you mean there...

Well done 👍

As an autistic person, I think a lot about this stuff. We are often portrayed an unempathetic, because externally, we struggle to express it, but internally, we probably have more empathy than the average human bean. Why would androids be any different?

See, these essais are my bane: It got me pause it to rewatch ExMachina and now I'm back onto Westworld s01. Dammit I'll never finish this video.

I enjoyed both video essays up to a point. The essays had an awareness of the themes presented in these films but had trouble accepting some of the implications of the presented tropes because of discomfort. * One theme discussed by the presenters was an authentic (romantic?) relationship involving the main protagonist (who might be an AI) with an AI. - What is meant by authentic? It seems it involves reciprocal empathy/compassion as well as honesty in sharing. - None of these relationships, central to the story, involving an AI were authentic (by that definition) in the beginning. And only one seemed to have the hope of evolving into some level of authenticity (ironically the one involving Deckard & Rachel, yeah where he at first physically assaults her). Eva, Delores, Joi, Samantha have various barriers or inhuman aspects to their programming which makes an authentic relationship impossible. - But the barriers to making a relationship work is not limited to the female AI characters. The male protagonists in these films, have multiple emotional difficulties which have previously sabotaged social interactions. Maybe Deckard will get past his PTSD and live with Rachel based on mutual love and respect. There isn’t much hope for such longer term emotional companionship in the rest of these AI relationship stories. But that is part of the point of what these films explore. To understand what is humanity, what it is to be human, involving AI, demands an understanding of the full range of what humans are. There was a confusion in one of the essays in equating the word “human” with empathetic emotion, and egalitarian morality. That is only a small aspect of what a human can be when seen in the long tapestry of history. To be human also can mean to fail, to be alone, to be rude, crude, selfish and even cruel. It was pointed out in an essay that sociopaths are also human. Of course. But instead of then ignoring that as these essays have done, to know what humans are involves the full spectrum of their behavior. And that isn’t often pretty. In addition, an AI can act as what would be described as a sociopath; being self centered, lying, even killing someone without a hint of remorse. There is a lot more these films present and the essays are correct in mentioning some books inspired by these stories because it would take a book to do justice to what is possible to discover in these films. Far beyond what can be explained in a KZread comment.

Thank you for this amazing video ! Don't you think that what make Ex-machina a "misogynist" film is the fact that AI (and women, as the film combine both) is seen as a deceptive being, using lies and manipulation to control people/men (men that often feel manipulated by women through their beauty and willingly or unwillingly "seduction") ? When I got out of the theatre after seeing the film, I couldn't get out of my head that the director was really angry at women.

In focusing on hypothetical AI, we fail to recognize reality. For example, when discussing AI safety, we'd think AI will conquer us for no reason, when in reality, just doing its job better than people at a lower cost will suffice for a market crash. What about intelligence in less human-like forms? For example, real-life machine learning. Is a statistical model predicting color values of a photo sentient? What about a text completion program? It can generate poetry, write code, make blog posts, write scripts, and power chat-bots, but is determining the next character of a sentence enough to grant it rights? While it's simple to emphasize with fictional AI characters, but I'm not sure if entangled math will ever deserve rights.

I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention the relationship between Razer and Aya from GLTAS. It’s a unique relationship in that, although technically an A.I., Aya’s core is a tiny portion of Ion, the sentient entity that lives inside the center of the Green Lantern Power Battery

I would love to have an AI companion. I already tried out a couple of AI chat bots, but the technology really isn't ready yet.

You are a genius Thank you

Thanks ❤❤❤❤