Hey Chuck, great video. We found/chose a '09 Chevy 3500 cutaway van, shuttle bus with the 6.6 Duramax and 5 speed Allison. Recent trip to FL from KY found us in south TN with a clogged up EGR valve, and reduced power. Made it to north AL, where a good friend of a friend is a diesel mechanic. A three day nightmare of a job, that would have been one day, if in a pick-up. Everything was hard to reach, most bolts impossible to see without a mirror.We stayed in the bus at the mechanics house during the repair. After finishing up, he asked if $500 would be to much for the repair. I paid him $800 and told him I knew that wasn't near enough, compared to what a dealership would have cost, and we were plugged in at his place and treated like family as well. Finished our trip without further problems. All part of it I reckon! Lucky it happened where and when it did!

As complicated the 7.3 may seem because of the electronics, there are really only 2 sensors you need to worry about on the engine. Camshaft position sensor ($30) and ICP Regulator. ($150). End of the day looking at a wire schematic, these engines are actually incredably simple for an electronic engine. I purchased a 12 window 7.3 with 2000 series Allison transmission rated 195hp and bus moves fine in my opinion. My biggest pro is the fact the 7.3 also weighs less than the DT466 by 500lbs average. The transmission is found in chevy pick up trucks and is very capable and makes up any potential short comings of the t444e compared again to the dt466. I also find parts generally more expensive for the dt466 which offsets the extra 2 holes on the V8. These V8 t444e are well designed with a B50 350,000 mile life which is conservative....likely not as long as the dr466 but from a mechanic standpoint, I always prefer out of frame rebuilds then dropping sleeves in and rolling in bearings. The T444e is also gear driven from crank to cam. No chain to worry about.

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

Id generally agree with you, though ive had issues with IDMs before, and chafed harnesses, which are not cool to troubleshoot. Parts are more for the DT466? Injectors are about 1/3 the cost, it has no HPOP ($800), ICP, CPS, UVCH, IDM, electric fuel pumps, glow plugs, or a glow plug relay to fail and it has half as many head gaskets and valve covers, and 25% less injectors. Remind me which parts were more expensive? i forgot when i was counting all the parts a DT466 doesnt have! Anyway, 500lbs in a full size school bus is not discernable for me. The allison behind your 7.3 is certainly not the same as the one behind a chevy pickup, I can assure you that. Ive owned over 100 buses and ran a bus company, never saw a 7.3 in a bus break 300k and very few dt466s for that matter, too. The dt466 is gear driven in its valvetrain as well. At the end of the day, the 7.3 is great, but Im never going to want that in my bus

@davidhenri2722

Жыл бұрын

@@ChuckCassadyYT Compare the same vintage of engine then. You should be comparing the 7.3 idi to your DT466. Compare the DT466E to the T444E where it has simular components. You are not comparing apples to apples here.

@davidhenri2722

Жыл бұрын

The Dt466E has all the same/simular components and problems that you just listed about the T444E. Pricing again simular between 7.3idi to the DT466 while T444E simular to DT466E while generally speaking the T444E is still cheaper then the DT466E for the same/ simular component

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

My whole point all along is that I don't like computer controlled engines and prefer older ones for all the reasons I listed! I think you missed my point. What is funny though is that the t444e was in production beginning in 1994 and the dt466 in my bus was from 1996, so technically they were both available at the same time--in fact the NGD dt466 in my bus was introduced almost at the same time as the t444e--1993! maybe it is apples to apples afterall!

@davidhenri2722

Жыл бұрын

@@ChuckCassadyYT In rare cases you got the dt466 for whatever reason but the dt466E had a production starting in 94 as well. You have a unicorn for that year model which is unusual, not everyone is as lucky unless they purchase something even older. Issue I'm seeing however these engines are now coming in with wet sleeve failures. As these Dt466's continue to age the O-rings fail. Get in one morning. Pull dipstick, coolant in oil. Something that should be considered. Most recently the engine only had 6500hrs. Sadly the engine is a 95 model....27years old. Far from worn. Needed rebuilding just because of age

I think you are secretly related to Bob Vila...... You are the Bob Vila of Buses

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

haha thank you so much! that means a lot actually

@smokewagon6

Жыл бұрын

Well said

@jamesonalexander5410

Жыл бұрын

Bus Vila.

@myweeskoolie7504

3 ай бұрын

Bob's got nothing on Norm! 😂

Always so informative. Thanks so much for sharing this comparison!

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

Chuck, I enjoyed every moment of this video with all of it’s details! Thank you so much 😊

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

You are very welcome

Thank you so much Charles! You did a wonderful job on the bus.

Man Charlie, thank you so much again for so much good information. My brain gets a little fatter with every video you put out. Wish I was a decade or two younger I would do my third bus.

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

Great to hear! lol brain fat...thats a new one ;)

@theway5563

Жыл бұрын

@@ChuckCassadyYT - Your videos are making his brain expand - because of the knowledge (food) you are feeding it. In other words, you are making him smarter.

One thing f my favorite videos yet! It really helped to see the buses side by side! Further, you are entertaining while being informative! Thank you!!

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

thats the goal!

@theway5563

Жыл бұрын

He would make the best teacher/professor ever. Easy to learn from someone who is a natural lecturer (gifted speaker) and adds comic relief, to boot. One common sense guy, for sure.

Your videos are always so informative. Like everything it appears to be a complex set of comprises and the perfect bus is like a glitter-farting unicorn. I ended up buying a pre DEF/DPF Thomas 30’ RE wheelchair bus (minimal L Track). The engine wasn’t my favorite, and I expect at some point to need a replacement which I’ve budgeted for. Also it has a low ceiling but I’m looking at a roof raise anyway. On the plus side it was 1) lower in price than I was planning to spend, 2) a Nevada bus so no rust and 3) the lift will be very helpful loading my Hammond organ and Leslie speaker. I might frame out the lift when not in use and keep it as a fold-up floor height one person patio. I’m just brainstorming but I’m considering spray insulation first and then using 1” Foamular XPS with a 20mil wood veneer on the interior side of the panels. I’ll have to run cost calculations on how that would compare to wood, but it would add some insulation and lower weight. I am certainly not a pro and I expect this to be an adventure.

Another wicked video Charlie, not sure why but I’m really looking forward to the 2nd series of gutted 😉😜👍🏻👍🏻

I have a t444e with an at545 on a AmTran 3800 24ft 6 window, and this was so informative. Love the work, and thanks for going so in depth.

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

great bus! thanks for watchin

Very informative video. I just love the sound of T444e - idling or cruising and the best when decelerating.

I wish I could mind meld with you! Your knowledge is unreal!

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

thank you!

I’ve managed several box truck fleets over the years and I’m definitely a 466 man, but I like how detailed you are about the 444. I want to get into the skoolie life and want a 466, but would be satisfied with a 444 if the the price and overall condition was great.

I'm always late to the party...I vote for Tuesday or Wednesday not a hole lot going on them nights...like around beer thirdy or supper time to sit back and rant along with ya...cheers 😁

Chuck - great show again - I also am impressed with your knowledge and delivery - missed the margaritas again.

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it! margs next time ;)

You’re my hero!!!! I want a skoolie someday!!!!

Nice and honnest comparing of both "world" 🤝👌

Impressed by your knowledge.

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!!! ylgs

@Mickelson225

Жыл бұрын

@@ChuckCassadyYT Hey chuck I have the same blue bird with 9 windows each side. I have watch all your videos so far an is grateful all the tips you give. You save me a lot of time an money an im here to say you are the goat of bus life. I have one question how did you slide the sheet metal under the rain diverter’s on the bluebird. Thanks in advance

In converting my International T444E bus to a RV, I plan on carrying with my bus the most common sensor replacements that might fail. My grandson who is a certified diesel mechanic says this engine is reliable and has a long life before overhaul. To each his own. Yes a DT 466 is a good engine too.

I have a 2001 Excursion with a 7.3 Powerstroke. It just passed 435,000. Love that engine.

Cruise control would be perfect for your Thomas bus! Love he blue bird bus too! :) I would love to see a hybrid, half electric half gas bus converted into an RV. Do you want to do that in the future? Or with full electric buses too?

There are no acronyms... just engine! 😂👍🏻

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

Bingo

@Edhooey

Жыл бұрын

This needs to be on a T-shirt, with a line diagram of a DT466 or a Cummins 12 valve...

Enjoyed your video and the others. I have two buses, both International, both with the 7.3, one with air brakes, cruise but with the AT545. The other I upgraded to the A2000 and it has hydraulic brakes. They are 34 and 30 feet respectively. Which one do I build? Haha, the longer one with air and inferior transmission has a low mileage rebuilt engine. Same company as your 466. I could upgrade and do I trans swap. I swapped the A2000 that I have and am not sure I want to go through that again. Hmmm… Anywho, what would you need to charge to get my 34 foot Thomas bus to the same as that customer’s bus? Roof raise, floor, new entry door, and electro panel ready for grid and generator connections and the possibility of solar? (No solar installed, just the connection ready in the panel). Thanks for sharing your knowledge !!

Great video, as usual, Chuck! I'm shopping for a bus and have already decided on a conventional with a dt466. My dilemma is whether to get a 466 or 466e. I'm nearing 70 yrs old, I don't care for computers in vehicles so almost all of the units I look at are in the 2000 - 2005 range. While I would Love a mechanical injection system over a computer controlled one, I'm just more shy of buying a 1993 bus as compared to a 2003 bus. EVERYTHING is 10 years older and possibly more worn. I know what it costs to rebuild the front end of a 3/4 ton pick-up truck, I'm sure a bus is considerably more expensive. All the mechanical, electrical, and other systems are a decade older. As someone who's daily drivers are a 23 yr old motorcycle and a 31 yr old F150, am I being silly or are the benefits of a mechanical injection system really worth buying an older (of course, low hours, low mileage) bus over say a 2000 - 2005 bus? ANY insight from you would be Greatly appreciated! I Love your videos, Thank You for all you do!

cool vid thks for sharing ...

Tire size on the busses has a lot to do with the rear gear ratios and which transmission is in them. as well as the weight ratings. Buses can be the same size, but the school district may have requested a particular GVWR. I currently have 3 busses, and all 3 are different size tires in the 22.5 in rim. 9R22.5 and 10R22.5 on 7.5x22.5 rims. And a 11R22.5 on 8.25x22.5 rims. The 2 full lenght busses have the 10R and the 11R sizes.

Have you ever cut the frame at the entrance and welded a new step plate to make the entrance level with the sides of the bus? It'd require a shorter door, obviously,(and a higher step up into the bus) but I'm curious if it can be done to increase the overall ground clearance. I'm looking at a 5window shortie and was curious if I could pull this off.

I'm looking at buying a DT4700 with T444E. Has ~130k miles but I'm only looking to use it for personal use. I'm looking to clear some land, bring in a bunch of dirt to level off an area for a building and build up a ~1000' driveway, plus stone for the driveway. Hopefully I won't regret the purchase.

I knew there had to be a reason why your style spoke to me beyond buses, then I saw the Toyota and it clicked. What’s that saying about great minds? Nice truck m8

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

Cheers! Big yota fan here, owned many many many

Thanks for the video. I’d much prefer an In-line 6cyl engine over a V8 any day

Chuck all valid points on both engines, but im going to question the numbers, i willing to bet theyre much closer than you think. The dt466 was designed in the early 70s and used in construction, agricultural, and marie applications, along with commercial. It in raw form is still available today as the maxxforce dt. The t444e 7.3s first year was 94, when it replaced the IDI 7.3, it was discontinued in 2003 due to emissions changes and replaced by the maxxforce 7.

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

You make a good point! It gets tricky when we get into all those variants. I had an old DT466 with the Ambac rotary pump from 1981 in a bus and while it's still an all mechanical DT466, the one in this 1996 has many changes--a different head, intake, injection pump, and roller lifters. Is it the same engine? Well yes, but not quite the same I'd say as the 7.3s which really only had 2 variants. Once you get into the maxxforce DT series and the dt466e, again it's a whole nother animal. You're a smart guy, and you make a great point, and u guess I wasn't considering all the many iterations of the dt466 when I said that. The dt466ngd in my bus was only made for 3 years I believe. It would be interesting to see the numbers on all of them. I'll try to find them. Those t444e/7.3 sure found their way into a lot of rigs from vans, to trucks, ambulances, school buses....though I don't know if they ever ended up in farm equipment like the dt..... do you know? Anyway. Thanks for watching and the thoughtful comments, see ya around

Nie one...Thanks for sharing...

I have an 8 window Bluebird. I aim to do a 12" roof raise. It's a '98 DT 466. With 179,000 miles. Tires OK, brakes great, the transmission was rebuilt and works fabulous. I must admit however, that I am a bit overwhelmed by what lies ahead.

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

Fantastic rig!

Hey man, have you considered reflashing the busses for more power?

Is there a noise difference from the engine when you are driving? I drive a school bus (Thomas 45') and am going deaf. Also, what about the diesel exhaust from the two engines?

I'm wondering about how bouncy these busses are in the back. I remember back in high school how much these bounce over bumps.

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

They definitely can be so I recommend adding weight!

i have a 4700 series boom truck with the t444e in it . Has low miles but i’m sure it’s idled for the equivalent of tons of miles . The truck i estimate probably weighs over 25,000 lbs with all the equipment and 30’ bed . It’s incredibly slow . Almost laughable even with a manual 6 plus transmission and winding out every gear . I actually can’t even believe they would put that engine in a truck this size . It does do the job though.

That 7.3 will out live the bus it’s in. They are unkillable. I used to own one and loved it. Hated to sell it but I wanted an IDI instead. Worse on power but it’s mechanical.

Eh Chuck, i have a bus with hydraulic brake system and the power brake motor and brake lights don't work, is there a quick fix? Btw I'm looking for a flat nose 30ft +or- rear Cummins with storage down under minimum inside clearance 6.2ft. Would you keep me in mind?

Yeah I have a big bus with the 7.3 in it it's not fast but it does the job

Where are y’all located?

Check once you got the engines figured out they're easy to work on I've seen him work and last 450,000 miles without no rebuilds

How much did it sell for? I have an 8 window, so I'd love to know what a roof raise comp would be...

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

hard to comp unless its been done by an insured shop with the same experience as us, but the roof raise portion alone on this bus is about $10k

Bummer I have that Motor in my 99 international T444E 😟 runs pretty good but SLOOOW...

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

It can be slown in the bigger buses!

I finally remembered who you sound Like you should from now on End the video with "We'll Leave the Dome Light on For You." your totally a Tom Bodett Sound a like 👍 LoL

My 2004 bus has International body with T444E and an Allison 2000, with air brakes. It is fairly quick on the flats, up to 63 mph on hwy, but it really struggles going up hills. I mean like full throttle it's crawling along at 25 mph. Is there anyway to bump up the performance on hills in these old buses? Mine was a wheel chair bus so it does not have wheel wells and smaller rear tires than the front tires.

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

Check that fuel filter first!

Chuck do you know where a guy can get windshields for a 94 3800 School bus international Thomas built ?

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

They're just flat glass, any shop can cut them to fit!

“This motor was in ford pickup trucks and you know truck guys and their attachment to them as a symbol of their masculinity.”

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

Whoops 🤭

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

I mean they called it "POWERSTROKE" hahahahaha

I just bought my first bus: 1992 International 55000 miles 7.3 non turbo 5 speed manual transmission. Previous owner put 11R22.5 tires on it at 55mph turning 2500rpms. Is this normal operating rpm range? Never owned a diesel that’s why I’m asking

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

That is a normal operating range for that setup

WoW ! Considering that the 7.3 is one of the best and most reliable motors Ford has ever offered I wonder if they know how really crappy it is !?

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

If the 7.3 is the best ford has ever offered....I think that says something about ford lol

How much is just a roof raise

You have any buses for sale ?

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

Yes I have one for sale

If the engine is leaking what can we do

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

Fix it

@michaelwpaulin4876

9 ай бұрын

Now that’s funny right there Now....,

Sleves in 466, not cast cly walls 444e head problem you will have low price repair, 466 sleeve slips you gob recked engine 466, its not same motor, div bell house water pump etc etc

My 96 Thomas wipers are down low?

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

Not if it's a dognose...you must have a flat front

@Drose419

Жыл бұрын

@@ChuckCassadyYT it’s not a flat front, about half a dog nose. 3600 T444e 4x6. Just getting started with the build, searching KZread to get some know how lol.

That is a Ford powerchoke international built them for Ford

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

lol

Pretty sure the 7.3 is in fact wet sleeved...

Tnx for giving us BUSES for DUMMIES!

@pepsipeanuts521

Жыл бұрын

That would be a great name for a channel

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

lol !

@kayceegreer4418

Жыл бұрын

@@pepsipeanuts521 agreed, but they would probably have to change the spelling of dummies to dumbies, to get so as not to get in trouble with the Dummies people. Or how about "Buses for the Ignernt"? No? Aha! I've got it! "Buses for the Unschooled"!

@kayceegreer4418

Жыл бұрын

Chuck Cassady , Howzabout... "Buses for the Unschooled"... so as not to get in trouble with the Dummies people...or "Skoolies fer the Unskooled" - but that sounds more like building 'em out, rather than figuring out the mechanics of what you want to live with or not, and whether you can afford expensive electrical/electronic repairs.

@theway5563

Жыл бұрын

@@kayceegreer4418 - You didn’t click the reply button to Chuck when you typed your comment to him, so he never saw it, unfortunately. If you had clicked the ‘reply’ button, his name would have appeared in blue on your comment.

I disagree the 7.3 is one of the most sound diesels on the road. I have owned at diesels most of my life towing, milage and durability 7.3 can't be beat. Current driver 325,000 miles, 672,000 miles, 365,000 miles

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

In a pickup?

@AlchemiUnlimited

Жыл бұрын

1999 F250 325,000 miles, 1990 4X4 12" lift Extended E250 672,000 miles, International 7. 3 diesel box truck 365,000 miles all with no major work on them.

the t444e is garbage, way too weak for the open road. now the cummins you can upgrade

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

I'd tend to agree unless it's in a short bus like this. I'd still personally prefer a Cummins or DT

@deliciousgixxer3670

Жыл бұрын

@@ChuckCassadyYT see the issue with the t444 is that for what reason its almost ALWAYS paired with an at545 trans. that trans is literally purpose built for only city driving. forget highways, you will put so much strain mechanically using an at545 on anything that isnt a city road

@Tns5052

Жыл бұрын

​@@ChuckCassadyYT I'm about to go look at one with a t444e it's a full size pusher bus, 13 windows after the main door. The guy says he gets it up to 70 on the highway which seems like it must have decent power? I'm hoping anyway since it's clean of rust. He also said it's an 04 international 3000. Maybe at that year they made them with a little more oomph. Idk, here's to hoping lol.

@ChuckCassadyYT

Жыл бұрын

@@Tns5052 that is a tall order for this motor. i never liked the rear radiator setup on those. id pass if it were me unless its extremely cheap and low miles.