Likewise every mystery is a point crawl connected by clues and adjacency. That makes a mystery into a dungeon too.

@direden

4 ай бұрын

Exactly!

I recently adopted this philosophy after watching Matt Colville's video "The Dungeon" and made two different islands with his method - three levels, three areas, three rooms. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought about classifying wide open spaces as dungeons

Very cool video, and overlaying the dungeon map over BG was an effective way to demonstrate the point. This concept is helpful to not over-prepare larger areas as well, which I'm very prone to do.

@direden

4 ай бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

Asking your players at the end of each session what they plan to do next time is essential if you want to have emergent gameplay with player agency the priority.

@direden

4 ай бұрын

True

Good job. Reminds me of John Four's 5 Room Dungeon concept. So everything's a dungeon. Let me add another though: ...and every adventure is a mystery. Those work well together.

@direden

4 ай бұрын

Exactly... I'll address this when I talk about point crawls

I like this concept a lot and I can see it helping city setting encounters/events.

Wow, this is some of the best D&D advice I’ve ever gotten

This is exceptionally useful, actually.

@direden

4 ай бұрын

Thanks, my dude!

OK, I listened, read and reasoned about it. Having to work kept me from writing earlier. I disagree with the hypothesis or paradigma of "Everything IS a Dungeon" and give an alternative to that: Everything CAN BE a Dungeon. And this has always been my advice to neophyte DMs: Keep things apart which are different, apply similar methods where they are applicable. There are many reasons for that. First of all, if everything is a dungeon, the speed of the game, types of interaction and used skills are always the same. This idea causes more trouble than it does help new DMs because it lets arise situations where this does not apply and they have to go into micromanagement, which is harder than keeping the phases of Dungeon Exploration, Wilderness Exploration, Cities, Journeys and "Party Time" apart. 1. Dungeon Exploration is slow in Real Time, but has quick In-Game dice oriented interaction, whith surprise rolls, secret perception checks or much passive perception in maybe a raging flurry of encounters etc. going on, but the party only advances a few yards. Applying that to the exploration of a wilderness - which takes longer in-game, stretches the party (Tas: "I go scouting forward" at the Crystalmere Lake) would destroy the feel of the environment. One does not constantly keep the shields up to preserve the scouting rogue from bolts. One cannot travel dozens of miles with a full suite of platemail worn. Wilderness has its own challenges like weather (Pass of the Redhorn), natural hazards (Emyn Muil), plant grows (Hobbits in the Old Forest...) and needs a completely different set of skills, ruleswise and player-wise. The pace is faster in RL (many miles in a few moments maybe), but the things one has to do take longer. That is even more true to Journeying, including sidequests which can be dungeons. But that does not have to be so in all cases. But it helps. Like the Trolls in the Hobbit, then the quick exploration of the troll cave as a microdungeon, finding their treasure, incl. Sting. Cities call for social interaction, like in the wilderness, different classes are challenged here - and in a different way. The social status comes into play, and the reknown of characters and the party as a whole. Are they a feared bunch of murder hobos, unknown nobodies, the local heroes who saved the mayors daughter from the gnolls or the kings favourites and champions of the realm. Social interaction has a different pace - it will almost be 1:1 in Game and RL, but also call for much flexibility. Same for party time, like in an Inn, an encampment during the night, situations like Elronds House or Loth Lorien. As you may notice, I am referring to literature. My paradigma is that of D&D as an interactive fiction, audio drama etc. Imagine the major works of fantasy and s&s novels went at the pace and style of Dungeoneering. That doesn't work in my opinion. Everything has its own time. BUT. All those phases of play can change all of a sudden. The characters can be at the New Kings Crowning Ceremony and an assassination happens. The social interaction changes into Dungeon Phase: Find the assassin, those behind him and their secret hideout - maybe the environment can become kind of a wilderness if it large enough. The palace/castle becomes a dungeon for a furious race against time. Finding the hideout in the forest is a small hexcrawl, the hideout again another dungeon, the chase of the conspiritors is handled differently, just like the investigation in a nearby city, including some subdungeons and the mansion of the BBEG behind all this. I don't think all this can be handled just by one method, the Dungeon, but calls for versatility and the DMs and Players. This is why Basic D&D was split into different tiers/boxes of play, dungeoneering, wilderness, companion/domain play, introduction of skills, immortal rules. Other games like The One Ring or its 5e version have very specific rules to offer which can be applied to all games. But, as I said, anything can become a dungeon: The narrow alleys of a city quarter, a location of social interaction, even a wilderness - where did those bandits go? DAMN - traps and all is overgrown with thorns and vines... But a classical dungeon location can become a wilderness (eg the Underdark - remember Drizzts survival as the Hunter?), so the whole thing is permeable. Just imagine the hypothesis would be: Every Skill is Dungeoneering - one could settle with that, but the charactertype, ancesty, situation etc. would always add modifiers. A question of gamedesign (look at Mazes RPG or EZD6), but I would strongly disagree.

excellent what a change of thinking for dm's.

Nice! I've never done a whole city or anything like that, but I use a very similar method for out doors adventures, where every significant location is treated like a Dungeon room with entrances/exits linking them to other locations. I use a round 'edgeless' terrain board with the terrain for the location setup on it with markers for the entrance/exits. When an encounter is finished and the Heroes exit I clear the board and setup the next location. This was inspired by the way the classic X-Box game Fable handles its maps.

@direden

4 ай бұрын

I loved playing Fable! It's a great model for wilderness encounters.

Great vid I was unintentionally doing this during my campaigns some of the time but now seeing your vid, I'm hooked for life thanks bro

Once you start on this, graphs can be used to represent so many things. The opposite of using a dungeon for a whole city would be using it to map out a single room with all the obstructions and objects in it. Also if we see a conversation as a "topic crawl", there can be a map of topics that various people know, with conversations written so the players can "navigate" from one topic to the other, although there are no walls here to really stop them other than making the conversation awkward by an abrupt change. Perhaps accessing a topic that the character does not want to talk about much through something appropriate you just spoke about rather than out of the blue gets a +1 or 2 bonus. Also a social graph of various factions and people, with connections being financial or social relationships between all the major npcs, can also be a sort of a dungeon to navigate, doing favors for x to get a letter of introduction to y and so on. A thing I was looking into, as a fan of point and click adventures, is if puzzle design charts could be seen as a sort of a dungeon where you are always moving one way, similar to a conversation where topics can't be repeated. So the reason some classics like Monkey Island and Day of the Tentacle are fun is that their puzzles branch out quite a bit and allow working on multiple problems in parallel. It's all just gates and keys to open them, and it works for other genres like rpgs and shooters where your keys are resources or stats. So combat in let's say Doom is good because the decision tree the player navigates when choosing positioning, weapons and enemy priority is actually a well designed dungeon.

@direden

4 ай бұрын

Yes! Exactly, 💯 And seeing things this way can become intuitive, and once it is, you can even do it on the fly. So, you gamify your thinking. Therefore, you create interesting interactions with your players. However, the gamification is in your head or behind the screen. So, the players don't always see that gamification. They merely experience the fun of (navigating those metaphorical gates with metaphorical keys) success after success.

This is very cool! 🤙

@direden

4 ай бұрын

Thanks! I love your channel BTW

Everything is Everything

@direden

4 ай бұрын

I mean... you're not wrong

Awesome video! It just so happens I made a single page adventure following this principle. I actually felt inspired and empowered by your previous videos to make it and I'm very proud of it. Thanks!

@direden

4 ай бұрын

That's awesome to hear. That's the reason I started this channel... empowering and inspiring people to enjoy the hobby.

Genius

Damn. This helps a lot!

Fantastic video!!

@direden

4 ай бұрын

Thanks!

I like this concept....same thing with online RPGs like the one I am building.

I really like the simplicity of that idea. It seems like for me if I ever realized that it would ruin the magic. If I went off the path the the DM had laid out and I kept running into random encounters it would give away that I’m not on the “prepared path”

@direden

4 ай бұрын

There are certainly those players who intentionally try to mess with the DM and break the game. Most players and good players want a story and will engage accordingly. If your game is set in a dungeon, most players won't try to leave to go started a lemonade stand... they'll explore the dungeon. It's much easier to start a lemonade stand in a city, but they probably won't completely abandon the city if that's where there's adventure. I find players will sometimes test boundaries for the sake of verisimilitude, but good players don't completely derail things. This is another reason for my "4 feuding factions" design. If players do something completely unexpected, you can use one of your other factions. (This is the equivalent of starting an additional question in a computer RPG.) That prevents you from relying too heavily on random encounters.

While it may be a bit overkill, if you've ever played the boardgame Scotland Yard you can see the idea of nodes throughout a city. The game has over 100 nodes, connected to each by taxi, bus or metro as they try to close Mr X in so he has nowhere to move. I've used a similar style of map for things like chases, allowing the players to figure where they go and how they get there.

@direden

4 ай бұрын

That's cool!

I actually think that first map (Baldurs Gate) seems more realistic. I just can imagine digging under the ground to make a room then thinking I need another room so I will dig l40, 60, or even an 80 foot corridor before digging the second room. "Normal" dungeon design makes zero sense to me unless these dungeon diggers had magical shovels that moved earth like a bulldozer. I also like "dungeons" that are caes mostly. It just seems more realistic unless the original structure is dwarven (which I somehow allow myself to believe).

@direden

4 ай бұрын

I agree. I never understood the crazy long hallways... there's no explanation other than "fun house dungeon"

Didn't have the time to read and watch, I return later. Small comment without watching... This is not a new 5e specific thing, back in the 80s I dmed a module (Der Wald ohne Wiederkehr/Forest of no return) which handled the Forest as a dungeon with the bbeo's keep as another dungeon. Ssi games were structured like that too. I am curious what it is about, but as a DM with 35+ years of experience, my first impulse is No.

@direden

4 ай бұрын

You're right. It’s not new, even though the DnDBeyond article kinda implies it's new. I referenced that article because I wanted to use the same title and some images for my video. Ultimately, there's nothing new under the sun... and that's part of the point.

@n.ludemann9199

4 ай бұрын

@@direden Many game designers put much effort and brainmuscle into game-, campaign- and adventure design. The claim/implication of Everything is a Dungeon is a retreat into the Basic tier of gaming and into an unnessacary simplicism, which is what I critisize 4e and 5e. While 4e wanted to break down anything into Encounters, 5e does so with Dungeons. It is a reversal of paradigms, founded in the limitations of early video game design. It was complicated in some engines to design cities and wildernesses, so Bards Tale, Goldbox etc. made them Dungeons. That it worked differently shows the Ultima-Series, which has clearly set apart areas of Wilderness Travel, Cities/Keeps/Shrines and Dungeons. OK, the worlds shape was a torus, but this is Fantasy and Sigil is shaped like that too ;) What I dislike 4e and 5e for is the videogamification of the hobby. Yes, I play CRPGs too, but there are major examples which show D&Ds new editions took a narrow path of gameplay which included this not representing the genre as a whole. Ultima, Wasteland II and III, Baldurs Gate, KotoR, Elder Scrolls, many others show that not everything has to be handled as a dungeon. Ultima Underword shows that a Dungeon can be a wilderness, a city, whatever. I think the methods and mechanisms of adventuring applied to a location call for what it is, not the other way around. A keep or a marketplace can be a dungeon - or something different. A carpet can be a massive wilderland if the party is shrunk to some millimetres, just like a Dalek can be a dungeon. It depends on the circumstances - and the individual game design. Making everything a dungeon cancels out creativity for the sake of uniformity. I strongly disaggree with that idea. Relative and actual gametime and pace, mechanisms and methods are different, in a dungeon, the partys reknown and social status is irrelevant, but in a town, even in the wilderness or in a social situation, this can be most important... (Orc-Scout: "Oh no! I know those guys and their coat of arms! They slaughtered Highchief Gruumshak last month, and they have the power of the netherrealms on their side. Let us take our wifes and offspring and flee from here." - "But da bass callt as ta dafent da rawine!" - "Die you fool, you will do so anyway. Dam' mountain maggots scum" *chop* ... hours later the PCs: "Hm, there was a massacre here, seems an especially brutal gang murdered those smaller goblin guys... I knew them, a guy of that tribe lives in the town I am from and works as a tanner,, this is his brother who worked there as a pestcontroller. I will avenge him and bring the family his murderers head. Let's hunt some orcs...") I will keep classic game design of BECMI/1e structure, I think this computerfication is not my style, I am an Old School DM... and won't make everything a dungeon...

Nice video, good work :)

I would like a vid mapping out where bg3 takes place in bg

@direden

4 ай бұрын

I don't play video games... but I could get some help from Mike from eMBeaR. He's my video game expert friend.

I was thinking about something like this just last night. What if we also thought of whole cities as Characters/NPCs in a way? Like a Town Character (TC). You could have the districts be 'members of the party', or just don't take the analogy that far. But if you have a goblin horde led by a demon infused baddie and they were rebuffed once but will come back, and the players aren't around, but you still want some dice fate thrown in, this could work. You would have low health pools and work in terms of _d4s to keep it simple. So a goblin horde like that could deal 1d4 damage. Defenses to the town/tier of settlement could have modifiers to lower damage (no ac, really, just have things that shrug off damage to keep simplicity). Possession, and as such Charisma Saving throws, could be for political problems and the like

@direden

4 ай бұрын

That's an interesting idea. Back before I used my 4 feuding faction design, I would would use up to 10 factions. I would assign each of them 3 dice types: might, influence, and resources. For example a political faction might have a 1d4 might, 1d10 influence, and 1d8 resources. Then after each game session... I'd match up the factions into pairs and roll off. Then the 5 successful factions would advance their plans at the expense of the unsuccessful ones.

@BigCowProductions

4 ай бұрын

@@direden Ooooh nice! I've looked at WebDM with Jim's way of doing Faction turns and rolling dice more as an interpretive thing, where faction size denotes what size dice, and you specify faction to color or whatnot. So a small bandit group is 1d4, and a country power is a d20. then roll them all at once. If two factions get a match, if they rolled closely together in space where you rolled, it's something positive. if they are far apart, it's contentious I'm doing a living world kind of situation and keep track of time closely; I haven't done faction turns or whatnot yet, but I think by every tenday or half tenday on major and minor ones or something for rolls would work

@direden

4 ай бұрын

@BigCowProductions yeah, Jim Davis' idea is where mine started... and it evolved.

basically bg3 level design in a nutshell

I really like this idea, and I'm running SKT at the moment - I could easily see the Savage Coast point crawl mapped in this way. The issue is 5e's rest system, which would mean every 'room' would need to be scaled for players who are always fully rested. I'm curious how you might account for this?

@direden

4 ай бұрын

Since the "rooms" are a large area, you can have multiple encounters in each room. You don't need to write down a lot of details (which is often the biggest deterrent for people). You can bullet point it, just like you bullet point a room with a bed, dresser, and chest... then sub-points for what's under the bed, in the dresser, and in the chest. Treating an area like a room... you could bullet point kobolds- working for the dragon, orcs- working for the ogre king, and village- gnome mushroom farmers.

Need a better mic and cam :) But I like the content see you next week...

@direden

4 ай бұрын

I'm still playing with lightning. If I go back to brighter lights, it improves camera clarity. Yes, my mic needs an upgrade... when I hit 10,000 subs... I'll be able to afford that. So, soon 😉 Welcome to the Dire Den, See you next week!

I get what your saying, but it seems an awful lot like using quantum ogres to guide on a story. There is no real choice. That mechanic and that choice are I think the toughest to deal with. What do you do when the party goes sideways. I think that should be settled in session zero. Hey, the characters can do anything inside this arc or storyline works awesome for a narrative approach. Or, you could just tell them, I haven't prepped this part yet, we can end the session there, or we can do other things and return to it next session. Ask them what they expect. The players will be setting their own hook for the next session. Great content.

@direden

4 ай бұрын

There's actually plenty of choice. There's all the places you prep... and everything outside that can be handled with a random encounter. Help me understand where that feels like a lack of choice?

@archersfriend5900

4 ай бұрын

@@direden it's because the choice not intended triggers a random encounter. A choice shouldn't trigger a random encounter. It should trigger what that choice involves. Using random encounters as roadblocks is forcing a path. Using random encounters just gives the players a choice for extra experience. Random encounters should be on a timed basis. Every hour or whatever. That makes them random.

@loadedstapler1459

4 ай бұрын

Personally I find random encounter tables very useful to keep the game momentum going rather than stall while I come up with something I didn't prepare for. I also enjoy it more! I don't want to know everything that's going to happen. I recommend looking at the Adventure Seed table in Mausritter (free online). It one of the most inspiring random encounter tables I've come across. I think if you give it a chance you'll have fun with it.

@wbbartlett

4 ай бұрын

Random encounters / random events are great tools for emergent storytelling - they aren't roadblocks or railroading unless you choose to make them so@@archersfriend5900

@direden

4 ай бұрын

I guess I didn't explain well enough. I wouldn't recommend JUST any random encounter tables. But ones that fit the region you're designing. In this case, a city. That's what I meant when I said the random encounters represent how the world works. You'd find or build encounter tables that represent the area. So, for Baldur's Gate, I would have an outer city encounter list and a lower city encounter list and an upper city encounter list and a docks encounter list. Likewise, if I was running a point crawl in a forest that had a goblin faction and an elf faction... my points or nodes would include scenes that represent those factions. Then, my random encounters would include the forest's food chain plus any other humanoids that travel through that forest. Does that make sense?

The article "Everything Is a Dungeon" is an example of the worst impulses of 5e thinking. First, he thinks he came up with pointcrawls, a concept that has been around for years. Second, he fails to understand that a dungeon isn't a series of encounters. It's a series of spaces for exploration. There may be encounters. But there also may be discoveries and the use of resources and other things. Sometimes cities or overland travel can be like dungeons, but sometimes they aren't. Getting out of the 5e space for just a few minutes might be revelatory for that dude.

@direden

4 ай бұрын

Yeah, I liked the title of the article. Obviously, I used it. But the article itself just scratches the surface. I tried to share a broader view on the point... and will continue to follow-up with next week's video, "Everything's a Sandbox" then a video on "Point Crawls"

@n.ludemann9199

4 ай бұрын

@@direden Some people thing everything can and MUST be solved by sandboxes. Again, this railroads gamedesign into a specific simplicism, which may/will not always be the right choice. Keyword is balancing - doing everything the same way gets boring soon. Player empowerment may be important, the characters decision are what matters most, their actions write the plot and story. But I am becoming more and more irritated about the "railroad-panic" in the community, while WotC and Paizo continue producing massive adventure paths instead of short location based modules easily fittet into any setting. Sure, GDSQ, Slavers, U-Series and Adlerweg formed sort of adventure paths too, as well the Sword of the Dales, Avatars, some C-Series, L-Series, Ravenloft 1/2. And all mistakes (especially Avatars!) have already been made and repeated. Why do they still repeat those?

No kidding was just listening to Runehammer

Hey, what about How To Game Master Like A Fu@king Boss?

@direden

4 ай бұрын

That's a strong title. What 5 steps would you recommend to be GMBoss?

@n.ludemann9199

4 ай бұрын

@@direden 1. Have fun designing and preparing. Don't over-prepare. Leave freedom. 2. Have fun to guide your friends through situations they get into. 3. Have fun to make and tell a story out of what the PCs do. 4. Make what the PCs do significant in your game. 5. Let all at the table have fun and prefer rulings over rules. And accept that you and your players will make mistakes. Talk about that and how you all can do better... Nobody is perfect.

If you're promoting Justin Alexander after what he did to the late Jennell Jaquays, I'm out.

@direden

4 ай бұрын

I haven't heard enough of the details to make an informed opinion on the situation.