Great video!

Components definitely impact if I'll enjoy the game more or not 🙃

@theperfectboardgame

2 жыл бұрын

Absolutely. A game that came out very recently, has a forest theme and excellent components is Living Forest. Take a look at it!

Your comment on which game is more complex and longer to play is helpful but most helpful is which game your family would play is most important for me. More important than games is family.

@theperfectboardgame

7 ай бұрын

Thank you for the feedback; I agree!

I like this tool you used cool video! Would love to see Root and/or Marvel Champions featured on a similar video (not sure which comparisons work best)

@theperfectboardgame

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed. I would love to do a comparison for Root, but I’m not sure which game to pick yet…

@theperfectboardgame

2 жыл бұрын

Here’s a Root comparison for you: kzread.info/dash/bejne/k6aB0qijdrCtk6g.html

I love this video and I love The Perfect Board Game tool but I think the implementation of "theme" is a bit of a problem. How would one go about finding games that LOOK like Everdell, or Wingspan, or Tang Garden? When I go to the website, I would search for games with a high "theme" rating but most of these wouldn't come up. Not because they don't have the beautiful artwork I'm looking for, but because someone thought the artwork didn't mesh well with the mechanics. I would argue the better implementation would be either separate "art" and "synergy" categories, or let "theme" be purely art direction and move the "mechanical / artistic marriage" argument into the mechanical category (which also feels problematic).

@theperfectboardgame

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the comment and for checking out the site! I will share my theory with you. First, and most importantly, the five ratings are crowd-sourced. That means that regardless of what I think, eventually the rating system will be beyond my control. “Theme” should mean what gamers want it to mean, not what I personally want it to mean. As the designer, I have a strong influence on the framework and I can certainly make videos suggesting what I think, but at the end of the day, I submit the rating system to the users. That being said, there are actually three attributes I considered but left out. Those attributes are “components”, “fun” (or “addicting”) and “shenanigans”. (I couldn’t think of a better word for this. Perhaps you know what I mean: games that, by design, involve humans “screwing” with your plans. It is like luck but rooted in human behavior rather than dumb luck) Why didn’t I include these three attributes? The hardest attribute to exclude was “components” and I think that is at the heart of what you are asking. At the end of the day, I decided that the tool exists to rate games, not artwork. While I definitely think game elements can draw players in and that can make a game more engaging, the components themselves are not a game. When I first fell in love with the game Imperial, it was out of print so I made the game with my own 3D-printed pieces, poker chips, and laminated, printed cards. What resulted was just as playable as the original. These days, people are doing the same thing with games like Catan, making even more beautiful tiles than what are included in the box. Then of course, often players will paying their miniatures. So ultimately, “components” is not a core attribute of a game. See if you can identify other attributes I “left out” and why I might have excluded them.

@mortonkoopajr7423

2 жыл бұрын

Not entirely in agreement, especially when it comes to theme. The theme of Everdell is not just "animals." Equally important is the "town-building" theme; and it seems like the review doesn't give it credit for this. Keeping that in mind when viewing the cards, the theme is apparent and the card effects become more intuitive. Some quick examples: Materials needed to build constructions (wood, stone, resin) are appropriately different than those needed to play a critter in your town (berries/food). Critters pair with the buildings that are thematically appropriated. Card are often very thematic in their effects( the farm with produce food, the crane will aid in the construction of an expensive building, the dungeon allows you "lock a critter in it", making more room in your city if needed).

Nice video. I was contemplating both, but now I think I'll leave both. I might be wrong but I feel like 'Villages', which I already own, probably scratches the same itch. You saved me some money lol

@theperfectboardgame

2 жыл бұрын

I think both games are appealing to get new people interested in games, but because they look interesting, not because the gameplay is super exciting. When you say “Villages”, are you referring to this game? boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/114684/villages

I disagree that Everdell drags on as you get to the end, and here's why: Yes you have more stuff to do, more workers to place, and a better running engine that gives you more stuff, but that's all in tension with running out of space in your city and having to balance getting the last few cards you want vs. claiming the best point scoring places. It's that tension of being more capable but likewise more limited that I just love. It's a neat reversal of the beginning of the game where you have huge potential but very little capability. (The Midgame supports this arc too, because the Summer season starts without a boost to the engine adding an additional wrinkle to plan for.) I don't know if that totally refutes your position, because the extra stuff to do is more thought-provoking and might lead to slower turns. But that slowing down and making the last few turns really count really works for my style of playing. I'm not great at strategizing from turn 1, so having a little more time at the end to secure my last few points means I feel like I'm playing better. But thanks for your thoughtful comparison!

@theperfectboardgame

2 жыл бұрын

"It's a neat reversal of the beginning of the game where you have huge potential but very little capability" ... I can agree with this!

Scoring these low on theme is genuinely hilarious and utterly nonsensical.

@theperfectboardgame

2 жыл бұрын

Glad you were entertained! Follow me for more genuine laughs!

@kevinmontoya43

Жыл бұрын

His definition of theme is very mechanical/logical based and not art based. He wants the game's mechanics to represent the art and if it makes sense in the real world, Which is very hard as a game designer to do for a game that your goal is to earn victory points. Personally, theme for me is very much art based. And mechanics is it's own category.

I have a different experience with wingspan, with the same group of 5/6 people only 2 person win the last 10 games. Is very hard to counter a good player.

I have not played Everdell, so my thoughts may not ring as true, but what I hear others say is that Everdell suffers because there is dependence on luck for specific cards (waiting on husband if you have played a wife). The other problem may be that you need familiarity with the cards to chain them properly making it hard for new players. For Wingspan, I like the game, but do not love the game. It definitely fits a mood: the art and gameplay are soothing and relaxing for when I do not want a tense and thinky game. I feel the engine building is subpar, as there are not enough rounds to chain together the card actions more than 1 or 2 times especially since the final round is mostly about laying eggs. I feel I should try this a few more times with an extra 5th round. My other problem with Wingspan is that it does not have much player interaction and thus feels like multiplayer solitaire (again relaxing and not tense). This brings me to a final point. I think player interaction is a major reason I choose certain games. I think you should refine your scoring system to include a player interaction category.

@theperfectboardgame

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for the thoughtful reflection on both games. I've heard a few people request such an attribute in the rating system, but it's going to take a little time to implement it everywhere.

I feel like I wouldn’t necessarily compare these two games, but I definitely have to be in a mood to play either one, both of them can drag on and it takes a minutes to introduce people to playing them

@theperfectboardgame

2 жыл бұрын

Both games share the quality of getting longer as the game goes long. In Everdell, you get more workers later in the game. In Wingspan, you get more complex chains of events.

I feel there's a difference between "theme" and "thematic integration". The theme can come out strong even with poor thematic integration (and vice versa). Dominion scores badly on both accounts; Everdell has extremely strong theming with weak integration (still existent though - forest resources as building materials, berries as food stocks, shops helping economy etc.). Finally there's a game like LOTR LCG which offers ingenious thematic integration, yet the gameplay is so abstract the theme still suffers despite lovely components.

@theperfectboardgame

Жыл бұрын

I like this breakdown! I like it, but when I rate theme, I would still rate it as a single attribute. So whether a game score high in theme for its theming or its integration, it would be one number and clarity would be added through the written or spoken review.

@theperfectboardgame

Жыл бұрын

To me, integration is worth much more than theming. Integration actually lends to an intuitive understanding of a game, how to play and what is important to focus on.

I was

@theperfectboardgame

2 жыл бұрын

“I thought, therefore…”

I was so underwhelmed by Wingspan I was left confused why it was so revered. It was a completely forgettable game for me. By the third game I knew I had to sell it. Everdell gave me the opposite reaction and I found my brain engaged the whole time. The gameplay was actually interesting whereas in Wingspan the gameplay felt a little boring. Everdell was a much better experience in every way. I don't think these games should be compared. They're quite different.

@Crazee108

2 жыл бұрын

Meanwhile Wingspan is literally my most played game. It's relaxing enough that my partner can chill and chat together without thinking too hard.

I Like wingspan. I dislike Everdell and sold my copy. Can’t compare the two of them.

I do not like games wich involve a lot of luck, I love games with strategy, so I'll pick Everdell. Thank you. I sold Wingspan because of the luck (too much) and the lack of strategy.

I feel like wingspan is playing solitaire while watching other people play solitaire. Boring and has no real meaning.

@theperfectboardgame

2 жыл бұрын

Man, I should remake this video. It will be four seconds long and I’m just going to quote you.

@MrRadman11

2 жыл бұрын

@@theperfectboardgame Hahaha

Wow, I totally disagree with all this ratings. Wingspan is much more strategic than Everdell, it even tells you the % of cards with the specifics you need to complete a goal, you're playing it very wrong. The replayability it's insane even without any expansions, already played 60+ times having bouth it 2 mounths ago to play with my spouse. Also, Everdell is much more of luck than Wingspan. That one I rented and played 5 times maximum and it already came repetitive, the cards and actions are very limited, the order of the players limits eveyone so you have to have much more luck to succeed in whatever strategy you were focusing on. In the other hand I rented Wingspan too but liked so much that bought to myself! No one limits your actions, and if that ever happens you have others means to achieve what you are expecting (buying cards, eggs, food), giving more perspective to achieve your strategy and goals.

@theperfectboardgame

10 ай бұрын

You make a good point about the percentages on the goal cards!