Ep169: Two Prophets- Two Visions for Temples

On this episode of Mormonish Podcast, Rebecca and Landon take a look back at the President Gordon B. Hinckley era of temple building.
There was a different vision decades ago in which small, accessible temples would dot the land and fit in with neighborhoods, communities and be a beacon of good will. What changed?
To answer this question, we explore the rivalry between Gordon Bl Hinckley and now prophet, Russell M. Nelson. When President Nelson took the helm, there were changes faster than you could count them, and the philosophy behind temple building may have been one of them.
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Пікірлер: 99

  • @norgepolo
    @norgepolo11 күн бұрын

    Surgeons aren’t only known for their poor bedside manner (especially among the older generations of surgeons like Nelson), they’re known for their massive egos and domineering treatment of OR staff, nurses, resident physicians, and support staff. They’re also know for displaying the same attitude and character towards the general public as well, especially when they’re in positions of power and leadership. Thankfully those attitudes are fading out with the retirement of those old school surgeons.

  • @nancyevans3590
    @nancyevans359012 күн бұрын

    Surgeons are well known for having the worst bedside manner of all physicians. He’s king in the OR and all the nurses and surgical staff obeyed his every command.

  • @yanyanfourtwenty

    @yanyanfourtwenty

    12 күн бұрын

    well that explains it... and that confirms that I am not the only one who thinks this...

  • @norgepolo

    @norgepolo

    11 күн бұрын

    Can confirm

  • @stephenjackson7797
    @stephenjackson779712 күн бұрын

    Rusty acts more like a lawyer than a surgeon.

  • @norgepolo

    @norgepolo

    11 күн бұрын

    He acts exactly how an old school CT surgeon acts. Massive ego with narcissistic tendencies.

  • @robinnetto6794

    @robinnetto6794

    11 күн бұрын

    He still has the ego and demands what he wants. The Mormon Stories podcast with stake Pres. Who spoke about his 2 nd anointing said that there is a lot of back biting Fighting and bad behavior amongst then Quorum of 15

  • @tawnyachristensen7310
    @tawnyachristensen731012 күн бұрын

    Money is the root of all evil, right? The Church is basically saying it's our way or the highway, Pride and arrogance and law suits are the hallmarks of the modern church, and as a former OR Nurse I can attest there is no one more arrogant than a surgeon.

  • @janetbucknell592

    @janetbucknell592

    12 күн бұрын

    NO -- it is the LOVE of money that is the root of all evil.

  • @tawnyachristensen7310

    @tawnyachristensen7310

    12 күн бұрын

    @@janetbucknell592 You're right, I stand corrected;)

  • @strangeclouds7

    @strangeclouds7

    12 күн бұрын

    ​@@tawnyachristensen7310 Im a nurse also and that is SO true haha

  • @kimevans9884
    @kimevans988412 күн бұрын

    They can buy anything in this world with money.

  • @carolyearsley

    @carolyearsley

    11 күн бұрын

    Lucifer boasts about that in the temple ceremony.

  • @dl1130

    @dl1130

    9 күн бұрын

    If the younger generation only knew the supposedly "never changing" temple ceremony of the past. Very few would remain seated.

  • @charlesmendeley9823

    @charlesmendeley9823

    9 күн бұрын

    ​@@dl1130Young men should not join the Masons. Else they will find quite a lot of parallels. 🧑‍🍳

  • @TheSaintelias
    @TheSaintelias11 күн бұрын

    Surgeons are not known for being really aware of others. They are used to saying “sponge” etc and someone giving it to them. They don’t get conditioned to not get what they ask for. Nelson is perfect example of this mentality.

  • @norgepolo

    @norgepolo

    11 күн бұрын

    Nelson wouldn’t be able to find anybody to work with him in today’s surgical culture. His ego and arrogance would cause every scrub tech, OR nurse, and resident physician/1st assist to tell him to f*ck off. He’d have a very difficult time finding a job or getting OR privileges in private practice if nobody wants to work with him.

  • @codyironworks307
    @codyironworks30712 күн бұрын

    Cody was started as a secular town, the first church was chosen by the winner of a poker game, now these mormons are trying to change Cody into another town lorded over by the LDS

  • @Leonard1977ful
    @Leonard1977ful11 күн бұрын

    I'm a nuanced member of the church, so, when it comes to temple, I have a more complicated point of view of the temple. I don't mind the temple, but I think church is building too many of them. I would agree with what's been said here that President Hinckley had better ways of working with the residents than President Nelson does, better bedside manner, or whoever in the church is working the residents to build all these temples.

  • @user-ri7xo7uv1q
    @user-ri7xo7uv1q12 күн бұрын

    You mean to say if in someone's back yard that could be seen from a temple in a residential area say a person put up a large sign advertising Joseph Smith was married to other men's wives who he sent away on missions....

  • @thomasmoore3204

    @thomasmoore3204

    9 күн бұрын

    It would make a tv spot maybe, but there's no window that you can look out of.. 17:47

  • @r.l.5964

    @r.l.5964

    8 күн бұрын

    ​@@thomasmoore3204yep; why would you want to be able to look out at God's creations while worshiping God?

  • @elliek5350
    @elliek535012 күн бұрын

    Thank you!

  • @user-ri7xo7uv1q
    @user-ri7xo7uv1q12 күн бұрын

    Nelson seems to have certain pettiness. A certain envious nature. Trying to stick it to those who resist him.

  • @carolyearsley

    @carolyearsley

    11 күн бұрын

    He's vindictive.

  • @sheliabryant3997

    @sheliabryant3997

    13 сағат бұрын

    @user-ri. 🌈🌈🌈🌈. And not - shall we say ? - quite truthful.

  • @whitesalamander
    @whitesalamander10 күн бұрын

    So glad you two are holding Rusty Nelson’s clay feet to the 🔥

  • @user-vk7bt2vw4r
    @user-vk7bt2vw4r6 күн бұрын

    Its interesting how in The Book of Nephi, Joseph Smith seems to condemn ostentatious displays of wealth when referring to the great and abominable church. Now that the Mormon church is so wealthy, the temples seem to becoming more ostentatious. Im no longer onboard but back in the day, I really liked the idea of the small and less imposing temples. Never made much sense to me to have huge and lavish temples. The important thing was the ordinances inside.

  • @TEAM__POSEID0N
    @TEAM__POSEID0N12 күн бұрын

    They like to hype up the inspirational symbolic power of highly visible temple structures in communities and as seen from highways. What kind of deeply disturbing, subliminal symbolic message must many Provo residents have felt seeing their beloved Provo temple gutted and demolished, with its remains being hauled away unceremoniously in big dirty trucks? I guess Nelson thought the UFO/Wedding Cake design was dated and tacky and wanted to replace it with something that would contribute to his legacy. He either believes that God was not really working through his predecessors and is only now finally able to get things done the right way (through Nelson) or he doesn't really believe in any of it and is just having the time of his life being the center of attention and being surrounded by so many people who hang on his every word like he's ... a real prophet. The prophet cosplay is one of the weirdest ones out there...and really expensive!.

  • @charlesmendeley9823

    @charlesmendeley9823

    11 күн бұрын

    When I saw the old Provo temple, I immediately thought "lady finger cake".

  • @lorrainedewaal3838

    @lorrainedewaal3838

    11 күн бұрын

    Both. He’s an egomaniac

  • @benjamingardea4511
    @benjamingardea451111 күн бұрын

    Nelson’s a surgeon. They don’t think they need bed side manner. Certainly he has none.

  • @sheliabryant3997

    @sheliabryant3997

    13 сағат бұрын

    @benjamin. Well, he certainly seems to have SOME KIND of bed-pan manner. He's building his own priesthood line with all his various SCION! Between sons and sons-in-laws!

  • @TheMormonAtheist
    @TheMormonAtheist11 күн бұрын

    Great show. You guys always bring it.

  • @user-ri3os6iz5q
    @user-ri3os6iz5q8 күн бұрын

    I'm no expert, but the Chicago temple was a small building, and within 10-20 years after it opened, the church had to add space to it. It would be interesting to see how many small temples have needed the same additions as demand increased over time.

  • @schrecksekunde2118

    @schrecksekunde2118

    6 күн бұрын

    increase in demand isn't going to be the problem you might believe it could be 😉

  • @AbundanceCreate
    @AbundanceCreate7 күн бұрын

    I’d like to relate what happened the other month at a greater community meeting where we were discussing developing problems in our various neighborhoods. We were, at some point discussing being good neighbors & it was asked if there were any particular kinds of people that are thought of as good neighbors. Several said, the Mormons. I asked, what makes them Mormons? They said, You know, they use the Book of Mormon. Okay, I said, what is that book? They said, Another testament of Jesus. I asked if they have been seeing their missionaries in their neighborhoods. They then replied they did but it couldn’t have the real Mormons because they went by another name and they believed it was another sect of Mormonism. Also, in my own community we have a lot of LDS and they all seem sad about not being identified as Mormons. Actually to understand American westward movement and history of religious- social development we must also learn of the Mormons. Yet if one would do the online search for the last 200 yrs, it wouldn’t work to put in LDS, but Mormons would. Just some thoughts and reflections I wanted to share.

  • @sheliabryant3997

    @sheliabryant3997

    13 сағат бұрын

    @AbundanceCreate. PERFECT "HANDLE"! Spread the tidings all around

  • @truebloodnz
    @truebloodnz10 күн бұрын

    The Boston temple was started without approval for the spire, and therefore was completed and dedicated without the spire. Further law suits eventually resulted in the final decision in favour of the church. The spire was retrofitted on soon after. Similarly, the Sydney temple didn’t have approval to add the statue of the Angel Moroni until a while after dedication. Eventually the final decision in court allowed it to be retrofitted soon after the ruling was handed down.

  • @sallyostling
    @sallyostling11 күн бұрын

    I'm 52. I live in NE Metro Detroit area and have never noticed a Mormon Temple or stake center or church. I've never encountered a missionary. I've only met one Mormon, back in College. Michigan is not a big hub of LDS activity in my experience.

  • @user-ri7xo7uv1q
    @user-ri7xo7uv1q12 күн бұрын

    Unleashed? Who let the dogs out who who. lol

  • @matthewroberts3125

    @matthewroberts3125

    7 күн бұрын

    🎶 Well, the party was nice, the party was pumping (hey, hippie-ye-yo!)

  • @CatskillsGrrl
    @CatskillsGrrl11 күн бұрын

    The church owns that tall residential tower right next to the Manhattan temple. Of course.

  • @r.l.5964
    @r.l.59648 күн бұрын

    1:43:23 Now is the great day of my power. I reign from the rivers to the ends of the earth. There is none who dares to molest or make afraid.

  • @sheliabryant3997
    @sheliabryant399711 сағат бұрын

    "Duelling Proffits!" Great joint-venture 😜

  • @JaelHammerNPeg
    @JaelHammerNPeg13 күн бұрын

    The god of ambivalence.

  • @ruelynng59
    @ruelynng5911 күн бұрын

    These smaller temples are more beautiful than the McTemples that are being built today. Will the proposed Temples in Nevada and Texas really be used full-time? Like 5am to 9pm like the old Provo Temple?

  • @Zeett09
    @Zeett0912 күн бұрын

    So what do I do with all my Meet the Mormon DVD’s given to me? Maybe I can take them on Antique’s Roadshow.

  • @peter_higgs

    @peter_higgs

    12 күн бұрын

    Put a notice on your nearest Ward notice board "For Sale - Serious Collectors Only" 😉

  • @charlesmendeley9823

    @charlesmendeley9823

    11 күн бұрын

    How many did you get? Also note the theme song sung by David Archuleta, the gay exmormon. 🏳️‍🌈😇

  • @norgepolo
    @norgepolo11 күн бұрын

    1:12:00 there’s a specific term for what Hatshepsut did and what Nelson is trying to do: damnatio memoriae. It’s the “condemnation of memory” along with attempts to remove someone from official histories along with reversing that leader’s policies and doctrines. Orwell’s 1984 discusses this perfectly: “The past was alterable. The past never had been altered. Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia.” Nelson is trying to erase Hinckley’s legacy because of his bitterness over being called out by Hinckley in the October 1990 GC after giving a GC talk in April 1990 saying essentially the same thing that his “calling ourselves Mormons is a victory for Satan” speech in 2018.

  • @sheliabryant3997

    @sheliabryant3997

    13 сағат бұрын

    @nirgepolo! X 193 BILLION

  • @sheliabryant3997

    @sheliabryant3997

    13 сағат бұрын

    @norgepolo. X 193 BILLION! $🌈$🌈$🌈$ THANK YOU FOR REFERENCE TO THIS ONE!!! The "temples" being pushed now by momo apologists (suggesting the "REAL ways of old" verifying Mormoism?) HAVE TO BE HER MORTUARY TEMPLES with their Holy-of-Holies. SHE introduced the FIRST O B E L I S K S, two pink ones at one of the temples' doors and a third - of very great height - that was not completed. These are the OBELISKS forbidden by Moses to EVER be built by Israelites in any place they might go or settle! [Leviticus 26:1, NON-jst] In I Kings 15:1-11, 12, 13, 14 they refer to the "idol set up IN A (SACRED) GROVE" by the mother of King Asa. [This is referenced/defined elsewhere as "an obscene object for ASTARTE (fem. form of BAAL); "ASTARTE" being a Semitic goddess of FERTILITY, SEXUALITY, and WAR. See also Ezekiel 16 and Ezekiel 23.

  • @user-rd3cl7lg2f
    @user-rd3cl7lg2f12 күн бұрын

    Why go get temple endowments, when you are told that the signs, tokens and needed to pass the sentry angels (Masonic outer & inner guardians) and get into the celestial kingdom is denied to you until... (or if you get rich enough)...you are called up to receive the 2nd annointed signs, tokens and symbols. So, none of it matters unless you get called up to recieve the 2nd annointed ones. And are those 2nd annointed signs, tokens and , the same as the endowments given out before getting "called up." Progression up Masonic degrees change as one goes up, unlike LDS temple given out the upper (2nd annointed) but told those signs, tokens and mean nothing until you are called up to get the 2nd annointed. :.

  • @sheliabryant3997

    @sheliabryant3997

    12 сағат бұрын

    @user-rd. Isn't it just hilar- ious how they forget what they have done and then have to go back and try to retro-fit a full historical EON into the space of one week (so to speak). Still, so long as they can - EVEN NOW - get by with it, they will.

  • @maxjenkins7139
    @maxjenkins713911 күн бұрын

    What other religions are building so many great and spacious buildings?

  • @chadpearson1572

    @chadpearson1572

    11 күн бұрын

    Muslims, Jews, Catholics etc

  • @Songsofourown23
    @Songsofourown2312 күн бұрын

    Lol the savior said this is the name of my church??? Weird he didnt have a church then did he? Why cant this name be found in the Bible ? Or was this Nelson's first real revelation?😳 😮😮🧐🤔

  • @oliveoilchic
    @oliveoilchic10 күн бұрын

    Lone mountain… The church got to him and he caved.

  • @NorthernShrew
    @NorthernShrew10 күн бұрын

    Has anyone pointed out in these meetings how offensive and immoral and dangerous it is to cry bigotry when they know full well it is no such thing.

  • @user-mh5qg5jb7d
    @user-mh5qg5jb7d11 күн бұрын

    You said Prophets, but I think you meant to say Profits.

  • @derekbaker99
    @derekbaker9912 күн бұрын

    I use the term Mormon all the time when talking to family and friends who are Mormon. I have yet to be snapped at for using the term. (Maybe unfriended .. but, you know!)

  • @charlesmendeley9823

    @charlesmendeley9823

    11 күн бұрын

    I once visited the London Hyde Park visitor center. when talking to the senior missionaries, I lauded their choir, avoiding the name. He responded: "Yes, the Mormon Tabernacle Choir!" Obviously he didn't get the memo. 😂

  • @telmamoeller3185
    @telmamoeller31857 күн бұрын

    More templo... more money...

  • @christianuniversalist
    @christianuniversalist6 күн бұрын

    Nelson’s ego knows no bounds.

  • @user-rt9th4lz7z
    @user-rt9th4lz7z8 күн бұрын

    Y'all misspelled profit. 🙃

  • @charlesmendeley9823
    @charlesmendeley98239 күн бұрын

    It would be fun to found a gay strip club chain which sets up clubs close to each LDS temple. The clubs feature a tall spire which is lit in flashing rainbow colors, and music such as YMCA will be heard. 🏳️‍🌈😇

  • @NorthernShrew
    @NorthernShrew11 күн бұрын

    I'm a never-in and I'm sure I've been influenced by all I've learned, but with Nelson, all I see and hear is evil. Jesus will have his work cut out for him - if he ever sees him at all. Said the atheist.

  • @nathanderr6317
    @nathanderr631710 күн бұрын

    That is not true Cardston Alberta Temple Was Built in the residential neighborhood's its And Laie Hawaii Temple Also Built in the neighborhood's Heck And Even Nauvoo Temple Was In The neighborhood And Laie Hawaii Temple has a Steeple if it was Spire I Can Understand But Nope Building A Temple With No Steeple Would Destroy The Uniqueness of Mesa Temple And you Said that heber valley temple Would Stick out Like a Shor Thumb But Guess what I Was Driving in and out of Cache Valley Smithfield utah temple Heber valley Sister temple And It Doesn't Stick out Like a Shor Thumb I Can Barely See It Big Temple Don't Go on Commercial District's I Imagine that Logan But The Temple Is in The Shopping center It Will Not Work It Will Look Weird and It Doesn't look like it Belongs Here When I Look at Residential Zones It Looks like it Belongs Here and Plus People are Blaming the LDS church For Literally Everything Child Abuse in Closed Door They Get Blamed for that Like It's Their fault for not Preventing it Plus Did Some Nice They Give One of their Wards To the School Pus Nelson he Wants The LDS To go back to it's Roots Plus They're Temple's and Church's Are more Beautiful than the American modern Architecture If You Agree or Disagree with me I will not be mad

  • @sheliabryant3997

    @sheliabryant3997

    12 сағат бұрын

    @nathander. Very interesting - and perfect - mis-spell in your otherwise PITHY comment. 😜 It is a RIGHT SCREAMER, actually! Not suggesting it be altered! Just appreciating it. 😂

  • @user-ux3vb5zg1p
    @user-ux3vb5zg1p6 күн бұрын

    It is so disrespectful

  • @mormonishpodcast1036

    @mormonishpodcast1036

    6 күн бұрын

    Respect is earned!

  • @Rckcasa4118

    @Rckcasa4118

    5 күн бұрын

    The way The Church et al is treating neighbors and citizens? You’re right- no respect for their fellow men and women.

  • @user-ux3vb5zg1p
    @user-ux3vb5zg1p6 күн бұрын

    Mormonish podcast means this is very antimormon

  • @mormonishpodcast1036

    @mormonishpodcast1036

    6 күн бұрын

    If the word Mormon is a victory for Satan and we are anti-Mormon then by President Nelson’s own definition we are anti a victory for Satan so you are correct we are only seeking truth not lies!

  • @sheliabryant3997

    @sheliabryant3997

    12 сағат бұрын

    @user-ux. AND AIN'T IT G R A N D !!!

  • @hpagalla
    @hpagalla12 күн бұрын

    you should not compare Prophets, they have different missions and directions from the Lord in different time.

  • @charlesmendeley9823

    @charlesmendeley9823

    11 күн бұрын

    The point is that they are lying about tall steeples being doctrinal. It's just an architectural style, but because they wanted to have tall steeples instead of modest ones, they "lied for the Lord", claiming this was part of LDS doctrine, which is of course a falsehood, as the many temples without tall steeples prove. This is the major point of the episode, disproving the claim of LDS lawyers that tall steeples and spires are doctrinal.

  • @jamesreilly181
    @jamesreilly18112 күн бұрын

    I just can’t understand why you both are so worked up about this temple issue. You aren’t affected personally by any of these buildings, and have no skin in the game. Are you that desperate for attention? You can’t be making money off this by the size of your audience so it has to be ego driven or something I don’t understand. You come off as a couple of bitter Betty’s and very petty people. I guess the accolades of all the other petty people you are entertaining may be it as well. What a waste of time and resources but it is yours to waste I suppose. Actually pathetic is the word that comes to mind.

  • @charlesmendeley9823

    @charlesmendeley9823

    11 күн бұрын

    Then move on. Remember to tell your bishop during your next temple interview that you are watching anti mormon content!

  • @jamesreilly181

    @jamesreilly181

    11 күн бұрын

    I will move where I want, when I want Mr., and the Diocese doesn’t conduct interviews.

  • @norgepolo

    @norgepolo

    11 күн бұрын

    Rebecca and Landon are being advocates for those who will be negatively affected by the temples. They’re using their platform to increase awareness of the bullying attitude demonstrated by the LDS church WRT temple placement and construction.

  • @rebeccabibliotheca

    @rebeccabibliotheca

    11 күн бұрын

    All former LDS people are still affected by Temples and Temple building. Last weekend my son was married in the temple and I could not see him being married. We are trying to be an advocate for innocent residents in towns who are being bullied by Temple building that will negatively affect them. We are trying to help our church do better and conform to zoning ordinances in towns and work with neighborhoods so the temples really can be the blessing we are told they are. Our efforts as we report on multiple temples around the country has finally led to national exposure in the media. We’re just trying to help..

  • @lorrainedewaal3838

    @lorrainedewaal3838

    11 күн бұрын

    Symbolically for centuries the steeple represents the male genitalia (think Washington monument etc around the world) in other words the control man has over others.

  • @chadpearson1572
    @chadpearson157211 күн бұрын

    Bigots on display here!

  • @nancyjohnson8642
    @nancyjohnson86426 күн бұрын

    I MISS Pres Hinckley 🥹

  • @schrecksekunde2118
    @schrecksekunde21186 күн бұрын

    i Just went for "cok-LDS" which works and makes them see the folly 😄🤘