It is important to focus on the stationary storage market. Most people immediately think of cars when you mention new battery technology, but they are unaware of just how vital online, long term storage is for creating a sustainable, reliable grid. Keep up the reports on this good stuff, Mr. Borlace.

@michaeldickins9238

Жыл бұрын

Energy is more then storage but of harvesting too, and self harvesting clean energy like solar wind, fusion,etc needs to be in each car,haouse aswell, and emerging tech could provide solution and maybe renieblae hydrogen too

@samgragas8467

Жыл бұрын

Cars are the problem, sodium batteries are cheap but lack energy density. Lithium is scarce on planet Earth so it is not an option.

@camronrubin8599

Жыл бұрын

It will be sweet when I can power my house and my electronics on my electric car . My Chevy bolt should have a 2000watt outlet inside of it . And it should be able to power my house if I use electricity conservatively for a few days at least. Solar water heaters are a cheap “battery”

@ChrisCoxCycling

Жыл бұрын

Given how much of our population live in cities, we should be aiming to greatly reduce the size of our car fleets, rather than just replacing petrol and diesel cars with electric ones.

@adus123

Жыл бұрын

​@@samgragas8467 Earth has approximately 88 million tonnes of lithium. Lithium is not scarce We just can't get it out in the ground quick enough to meet the demand.

Happy Father's day to all. This man has the best show on the subject.

Hey ma man don't beat your self up for thinking you sound repetitive. I couldn't care less how many times your articles may sound the same, if they even did. I come here to hear your delivery of information. and after all, to me you are my energy info guy. This is the type of stuff I'm interested in. Your manner of story telling is southing and still in a sense, unique in every episode. Despite how you may feel, you are doing great. Keep up the good work.

@russell2449

Жыл бұрын

Hear, here ;?)

@bjb7587

Жыл бұрын

​@@russell2449Hear here :>)

@falconerd343

Жыл бұрын

another channel I like is called Undecided with Matt Farrell, he has a lot of good energy tech videos. =)

As a complete layman, only real thought I have is the crushing cynicism of business and monetization being the real road blocks of society achieving any of these energy solutions. I want to be optimistic, so I come here and watch and learn about all these cool technologies, so yes please keep it coming. New tech, lab or otherwise, are big up lifting topics. Just got to remember that behind every negative cynic criticism is a *very* disappointed idealist.

@nicoschwetje5849

Жыл бұрын

Hey don't be too negative, I work in the industry and the change is clearly visible. The amount of battery systems in the planning right now is remarkable. 11:46

More options chasing a finite amount of storage we need is excellent, a healthy competition of alternatives breathing down the neck of the established players improves the playing field for everyone 😊

@falconerd343

Жыл бұрын

Is it finite? It certainly isn't static (hehe) or even linear growth. How about induced demand created by tech optimized for different limitations? Regardless, I agree, more options are better, helping to unseat incumbent, inflexible energy (inergy?) corporations.

I for one appreciate the fact that this channel exists as a reconnaissance of energy technology. Will all these technologies come to market at scale? No. But that's not the point. The point is to provide a view of the breadth of research and technologies in the energy sector. In that role this channel is excellent. I would recommend Mr. Borlace do a quick video on Technology Readiness Levels (TRL). This might help casual viewers to get a better understanding of the types of technology being discussed. My assessment is most of the technology is somewhere between TRL 3 and 5. Having that context might provide some viewers with a better sense of where the channel adds value.

We will certainly need more of these alternate battery chemistries for stationary energy storage to take the pressure off scarce elements like Li which will be needed for mobile applications requiring high energy densities such as vehicles, aircraft, etc. The green energy revolution will need massive amounts of stationary storage capacity along with an improved grid.

@mnomadvfx

Жыл бұрын

Large passenger aircraft are unlikely to ever be served sufficiently by any lithium based chemistry, even lithium/oxygen types. That being said - though it may sound ridiculous to imagine it, as long as you adequately separate the passengers from the battery these molten salt metal air batteries could be used for passenger airliners. The main problem there is maintaining optimum operating temperature with enough insulation.

It’s always impressive just how resourceful humanity is becoming in finding multiple solution to our energy supply chain. Great channel. Keep up the good work. 👍

Every time I see a pic of one (or more) of those tri-bladed wind tubines, it really bugs me as to why the vertical axis turbine isn't more popular and more pervasive, considering their footprint, ease of production and maintenance, etc, along w/ the added benefit of being more bird friendly. Your segment about placing such turbines along the highways was an idea I had been percolating for some years and had actually proposed to my State and Federal energy departments and seems like such a no-brainer for increased energy independence.

I'm encouraged to see all the approaches to stationary storage. (Thanks for the useful term!) It's good to see all the approaches to solving the major hurdle to a renewably powered world.

I’m glad you are highlighting the fact that stationary storage has different requirements than what’s required for a car, cell phone, or laptop. The ground doesn’t care how heavy it is. (within reason)

One very important comparison is how much energy is lost when storing/regenerating, compared to well-know techniques like pumped hydro, or storage in hot stones.

@mnomadvfx

Жыл бұрын

Like all things with batteries it depends on the cell design and its chemistry. Electrolyte plays as much of a factor as the electrodes there too.

I love to hear about new game changing disruptive technology! Thanks Dave, enlightening has always!

thank you again as always for Sunday uploads. Every Sunday I look forward to the evening to see what your videos are going to contain

Thanks for keeping us up to speed. Good use of O2 which is ambient and easily concentrated for this Vienna power storage. We need smart investment to get Regenerative Oxygen Ion battery into a commercial product

Thanks Dave! Always amazed and inspired by human ingenuity... Really appreciate what you discover and share

Love your work Dave❣️

Another amazing video, Dave! Thanks for keeping us abreast of the new technologies. Cheers!

Excellent video with valuable information. Carry on, sir! 😊

Your channel is the best Renewable Channel there is so you: Don't need to be apologizing for Anything ! You don't need to be recounting the Renewable paradigm and I'm sure the majority of your viewers are well aware ! Ignore the detractors who may be Trolling you, WE know and we like , no love , your channel and look forward to every Sunday ! Keep on keeping On, be confident, just Game Change us all you want !

@2:52 "My research, over 54 years, has taught me that there's quite a lot more oxygen available on this planet than there is lithium" Hands down one of the best lines I've heard on this channel, I'd sub all over again if it could bring in more followers for this channel.

@shashankpandey6828

Жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/d51ou8V7f5OeaNo.html Oxigen ion battery

Great presentation...thanks. it made me "just have a think" about battery storage that I've seen regarding tesla system storage in South Australia. I believe it was 100gw but not sure. It has enabled them to change over from coal. Got to be the way forward, even though some had doubts.

I do still like the concept of the gravity batteries purely because of the simplicity, have recently seen a gravity battery/flywheel hybrid which was an interesting pairing.

@idjles

Жыл бұрын

The problem with gravity is it has a super low energy density E=mgh, that’s why you need vast areas holding massive lakes. g=9.8 and h = a few hundred meters. So you need a massive mass to get the energy. The problem with flywheels is E =1/2 I w^2, where I is moment of inertia (= mr^2 for a disk) and w is spinning speed in radians/second. So here you need vast speeds ( and hence low friction) to store large amounts of energy. And this puts massive g forces on the flywheel so you have to build that so it doesn’t fly apart.

@krulerwest-oz7364

Жыл бұрын

@@idjles I agree, why I found it interesting with the hybrid ideas, it was a deep mine shaft, large weight solar and wind got the weight to the top of the shaft and then over night it descended then via gearing would spin up flywheels , overall it performed better than the gravity battery by itself. Is it ideal, heck no, you cant go around sinking deep shafts all over the place, I just like how in that instance it works, but over all, nope.

Great video! I was an original Real Goods supporter back in the late 70s. So, every time I see your videos, I do a happy dance for alternative (now main stream) energy 🎉 So many choices. We have everything we need on earth to sustainably generate abundant clean energy.

The coffee stained periodic table was a nice touch😊

Excellent work as always and this looks exceedingly positive... I especially appreciate the list of Storage Options. Those possibilities are regardless of this potential are going to help immensely in on site specific solutions. And we all know or lets say 85% or more know how important this is.

If it's not ground breaking or game changing, were not interested. Energy tech is so hot!

I know this is such a petty, useless comment, but you are so cool for making all this content. One of the few channels that truly gives me hope for the future.

@shashankpandey6828

Жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/d51ou8V7f5OeaNo.html Oxigen ion battery

I like the idea of sand batteries and sterling engines or some other electric generator using heat up to about 500 degrees C

Lol, I love the intro. Love this guy. Thanks for an amazing video.

Energy storage needs way more attention from governments. When energy storage is in use, a coal or gasplant will become less cost efficient.

I still think the CO2 battery is an excellent solution for grid storage. Seems simple enough (and many times that mean cheap) and with a longer life than any chemical or solid state battery. AND it has already been put to work.

Thank you for making the topic entertaining and easy to understand. Cheers :)

I am too lazy to log into patreon so here you go

@JustHaveaThink

Жыл бұрын

I appreciate your support whichever way works for you :-) Thank you.

Another Sunday, another wonderful video from Just Have A Think. Thank you for all that you do, Dave. I've learned so much from this channel. And my goodness there are a lot of different battery designs! I'd no idea how many, until you listed your previous videos on the subject at the end of this one. They'd make a great playlist. The oxygen-ion battery isn't perfect, but I guess it's better than moving rail cars up a hill. The operating temperature of 200-400 C is a wrinkle, but designs like the liquid metal battery or molten salt require far more heat. It seems like this design is very middle of the road, with the very real advantages of being made from relatively common materials and being almost infinitely rechargeable. The long, long life of the battery would certainly be a plus for power stations. Just put some big boxes in there next to the transformers and keep them hot. No need to worry about ripping them out after 10 000 cycles or whatever, just let some fresh air into them and keep going.

6:00 In stationary applications it's just a matter to reach a critical mass inside a thermal insulated installation. There's for sure a sure a break even thermal point caused by the heath produced by the mere working of the device. Above that point you'll have to cool the batteries.

Just love that channel. Guessing by his accent, this man is from the English Midlands and is therefore a genius.

For utility scale storage, size and weight is not as important as round trip efficiency, cost of storing a megawatt hour, and how long you can store it. Just look at Lake Meade. Very big and heavy, and also very useful.

Trusting everybody who has comments remembered to hit the like button. I *like* these podcasts!

As you have said, the one thing tonight’s broadcast has shown is that there no shortage of alternatives to expensive lithium-ion batteries for energy storage, for when weather generated energy is in short supply, even if most are still lab based and requiring exacting chemical conditions, or extreme temperatures or pressures. There is one option that you do not appear to have covered which from what little I know would seem to be ideal for the 6 hours to 48 hours segment, the carbon dioxide battery (Energy Dome) basically, a closed loop system where a large quantity of carbon dioxide is repeatedly compressed with surplus energy, then allowed to expand to generate electricity, but best of all there is no Hughley complicated cryogenics system, and it is made from off the shelf engineering components, which should make the system affordable and easy to replicate, the only drawback I can see is the large size of the dome, but I am certain these could be accommodated at old coal fired power stations waiting to be decommissioned, the dome could fit where the coal was once stored, plus the transmission line would already be in place, so, we would be reusing an existing site, in most cases simplicity beats complexity. Of course, for long-term energy storage we would have to look at green chemical energy storage systems like green Hydrogen and green Ammonia. But for the moment a lack of energy storage is not the problem, it is the lack of renewable generation, which is being held back by huge delays in the planning process, and access to grid connections for wind and solar farms and tidal barriers

I can't help thinking that the complexity caused by the stable temperature issue will keep this admittedly ingenious system from the mainstream where simplicity, cost per KwH and low maintenance will bee the winning features.

Always keen to hear about these “breakthroughs” whether or not they come to fruition. Glad to see you beginning to curtail the seemingly obligatory intro about solar/wind intermittency and the need for storage. For most of us here this is unnecessary.

I wonder if you could combine with a thermal battery - using heat up to the required level and keeping the excess in thermal storage.

Great video, Dave, more solutions in the mix, feels like the cusp of a new age!

Soul Patch Dave is way cooler than regular Dave.

Lithium mining and usage ultimately needs to stop . So hearing about new technologies is very good . Love your videos

Diversification! Thank you for the update.

Looks ideal for a project that needs a long term battery solution. Space is also unlimited in outer space. Then if you need oxygen out there, you could just split the water molecule. Gotta have something reliable for that long mission to Mars.

I think you may be missing the point that in these extremely high temperature battery cells it is the ionic transport itself that causes the heating of the cell, and there fore as long as you initially heat it and keep the cells well insulated against thermal loss they will stay hot enough to maintain optimum temperature merely by doing exactly what they are designed for. ie charging during active sun or wind, and discharging during low to zero sun or wind. These ultra high capacity cells will become the backbone of solid state grid storage - though other sources may well end up filling out the rest merely due to cost.

As always, another interesting presentation!

@shashankpandey6828

Жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/d51ou8V7f5OeaNo.html Oxigen ion battery

You can think of energy required to keep the battery hot, as a form of energy loss from storage. Most forms of energy storage have loss over time, a "self discharge".

With abundant enough stationary storage, large car batteries wouldn't be necessary. I really think current EVs are really overdoing it on the battery size, to the point that they are basically just spending battery to move battery around.

Well done Dave Borlace. Thanks

Thank you Dave.

Loving the self awareness

I just had a thought... A Tesla valve, a large chamber, and a wind turbine that is optimized for high pressure. A wind tunnel engineered to let the wind in, but not let it out. Some kind of funnel to consolidate, and bring air into the entrance, which is the Tesla valve. This would lead into a large chamber, that slowly tapers down to the turbine inlet. Could break the input into many different smaller streams of air, which should reduce the pressure of each, giving the output a greater pressure.

It seems that every new "game changing" battery tech is compared with current Li-ion types - see chart at 9 min. We all know that there are, or soon will be, better options for long duration grid storage. Lets see a comparison video of the different technologies Dave. How do flow batteries square against Na Sulphur, liquid air, liquid metal, etc etc. And of course Li-ion tech is also advancing rapidly. The possible future tech needs to be compared with other future tech, not just current stuff, then we may be able to get an idea of which ones are likely to come out on top.

more hope is always beneficial

Always interesting thanks again

Mobile vs Immobile? Gets to the heart of the matter. Anyway such batteries which one would think wouldn't need to move often, like Tesla megapacks, have a very important niche use case for making them mobile. Tesla even sells a product like that. The Supercharger truck. Useful to provide charging facilities to off grid operations. So we might as well add "semi-mobile".

If they work out seems like they'd be great to pair with district heating in cold climates. Could probably be paired with greenhouses in cold climates as well so you could grow tropical produce instead of relying importing.

@TheLosamatic

Жыл бұрын

That of course is the goal to a world where all the people play by the same rules. Where everywhere everyone lives as self sufficient as possible having practically nothing being transported as that is a huge waste of the earths energy.

@TheLosamatic

Жыл бұрын

In a free world everyone paying the same, with politicians not having the power to steal by writing tax code on income, sales tax would be governed by how far a thing traveled. As that distance determines how much infrastructure was used! It is never as hard as stupid politicians say things are. It’s just a shame so many people are to busy to see thru the political BS!

Now I am dizzy from the rotating episode badges at the end of this interesting and informative episode!

another interesting video, thasnkyou

There are so many companies now into battery storage. I would like to here a bit more on how many companies are now into geothermal technologies and what progress or not they are achieving ???

Great video as per usual. I don't know if anyone else is mentioning this, but I think your longer videos actually work better. I mean, if you've got nothing else to say on a topic, that's fine, but it's really interesting when you do deeper dives into topics (even an extra 5 minutes would be awesome). Maybe it's just my own preference for longer videos, but I think your viewers have the attention-span to appreciate the extra length. All the development of these brilliant battery options is really inspiring. Batteries for EV's tend to get a lot of spotlight and funding, but clearly these stationary storage options are far more important for our actual clean energy future, so seeing new developments is always especially interesting. Honestly, I just wish our governments would fund more of these projects and help push their market adoption with supporting businesses. Quite a few governments are doing this to a certain extent, but many could really could do far more...I mean has anyone seen the US defence budget?

@shashankpandey6828

Жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/d51ou8V7f5OeaNo.html Oxigen ion battery

Just a word of advice. Perhaps you shouldn't say moving electrons when you are referring to the transfer of electrical energy.

@bernhardschmalhofer855

Жыл бұрын

Yes, poynting vectors need more love.

Just watched a video from Copenhagen Atomics which have a safe innovative nuclear design with target price for 2 cents per kWh.. no storage needed. I believe it'll work all the time, even at night and when it's not windy.

@tanja2651

Жыл бұрын

I wish i would get 10 cents every time someone tells me nuclear is the future... that would probably be enough to finance the switch to renewables by itself.

@Music5362

Жыл бұрын

@@tanja2651 We'll know soon enough. If northing happens by 2030 I'd have to concede you're right.🙂

That coffee stain effect on the periodic table was nice. Haha

Two things concerned me in your video and raised alarm bell that's 200 C and oxygen, particularly when ionised. There is a reason why batteries are generally electrically the other way round because of the dangers involved with the active elements in the right side of the periodic table, especially when the temperatures are raised.

we need some wins. ie successful implementations of alt energy in practice. so far all we get from all channels is promising possibilities. we need hope.

Most self aware battery KZreadr

If they can remove the need for Lanthanum and keep cycle count high for a reasonable cost per charge cycle, this could become a real winner. Please follow this technology and let us know how their research and production progresses. Thanks Dave. 🙂👍

@shashankpandey6828

Жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/d51ou8V7f5OeaNo.html Oxigen ion battery

Lithium type batteries are satisfactory for short term frequency stability control where we’re not looking for huge storage capacity but need a good ability for power absorption or production. Possibly they can be feasible for diurnal cover for solar plants. The next big focus really needs to be on seasonal storage - taking solar power in the summer and keeping it for winter when solar production is low and demand is high. Wind is typically stronger in winter, but is still intermittent - a blocking high pressure area can all but close it down for weeks at a time mid-winter when it’s most needed.

@ab-tf5fl

Жыл бұрын

Yes - the amount of energy storage required to save away solar energy during the summer to heat homes in the winter is truly gargantuan, but if it could somehow be achieved, it would a game changer.

What about putting these revolutionary stationary batteries underneath the cooling towers attached to power stations and tapping into the wasted energy leaving these? I'm thinking of vast banks of batteries stacked underneath and used at night when the demand is less and when renewables can't meet what's required due to weather conditions.

Sounds a bit like the rust battery, but I don't think that needed heat, though I don't remember anymore how that one worked.

Stationary energy storage is not needed. The energy on demand can always be generated using Gravity Energy Engine which can lift heavy solid blocks (concrete or dirt) on desired height and then powered the generator desired based on demand. Investors and government interested to contact the inventor are welcome for contact information.

@shashankpandey6828

Жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/d51ou8V7f5OeaNo.html Oxigen ion battery

What hurts the energy grid transition and the adoption of renewables as a whole, especially by keeping big players from investing, is the ROI. Solar currently yields 4-6%, while the petrol industry stated that they're only going to pursue such technologies when they're in the 8-12% profit range, well knowing that this will never happen. Stuff that is absolutely necessary to do, won't get implemented due to greed. Just being "cost-covering" would already be viable enough, when it pays for maintenance, and the salaries of the people involved, and if you calculate that in, also for a stepwise expansion. This is about our collective future and keeping the only habitat we've got livable, but seemingly, 4-6% just isn't worth it. Govts need to step in and either force the fossile fuel industry to hit certain transistion and diversification targets or fund the large-scale adoption of renewables with tax money. The govt-owned model used to be the go-to when it comes to establishing new infrastructure and is proven to work. Private investors won't do jack sh!t, and capitalism needs a replacement that enforces sustainability (economical, ecological and societal) as the #1 business priority, not profit maximization and utilizing exploitation. People could still get filthy rich that way, but would cause so much less collateral damage in comparison to now.

New video idea: Do an episode on the future of gas stations after the EV transition. See: recent Rawstory article on leaky gasoline storage tanks

Fantastic video as always Dave, stationary batteries are something i'm waiting on, I'm hoping in the next 5 years new solar cell tech along with new storage batteries can lead me to remove 99% of my energy bills and be able to give me the final excuse I need to get a fully eletric car.

So here's the problem with nearly all the stationary storage prototypes: they require a dramatic increase in global mining capacity to be useful at scale, and they don't provide anything that you can't already get from pumped hydro, other than the ability to use them in places that are extremely dry or extremely flat. That makes them useful as a niche solution for specific geographies, but no more than that.

Using waste heat from nuclear would be a nice place for this.

The world currently uses about 20 terawatts (TW) of electricity per day. Of this, only about 2.5% is generated from recyclable sources, such as solar, wind, and hydroelectric power. The rest is generated from fossil fuels, such as coal, oil, and natural gas. Therefore, I think the governments need to focus on ramping up the recyclable energy production.

From my understanding, one of the main obstacles to mass adoption of intermittent energy sources is levellized cost of storage LCOS , factoring in round trip efficiency,cycle life, cost per MWh. Do you have any information how their optimistic projections compare wit other system's optimistic projections? As far as I know we're a least a factor of 10 away from a LCOS which would make intermittent sources cost competitive with conventionnal energy ?

Good to have options available and not toal reliance on one thing and things are moving along anyway as Sodium is added to the melee.

Who’s the guy eating breakfast? That was pretty neat.

Dave has become the BBC on climate change now, I really liked the early vids but now its just what the main stream wants to tell us.

Thank you, as always!

Thank you. I wonder what is the energy efficiency of this technology, as keeping the batteries at 200°C lowers the energy efficiency.

As someone who has lived with solar panels and batteries for the last 13 years, I still say lead acid can not be beat. Yes they need to be cared for but they are leaps and bounds cheaper than lithium for stationary storage and they do better in the cold than lithium does and when paired with capacitors, good charge/discharge cycles and watered when needed they are the best bang for your battery buck by far. For the grid, I still think dams are the best way to store and release energy. Not pumped hydro, just regular old existing dams.

The rotating past episode cards at the end made me feel a bit nauseous, but I’m prone to seasickness …

The working temperature is 400 Celcius, I've come up with this topology 10 years ago. Not easy to make an electrolyte that works in room temperature.

The minimum time between laboratory and real world for complicated stuff is 5 years. There are exceptions for every rule. A more realistic time is 10 years for things that are hard to mass produce.

You noted the importance of cost, but I did not hear any comparison with Li-Ion, LiFePO4, Na-Ion, Molten Salt, Pumped Storage, etc. Please update this program with an appropriate projected cost comparison.

yes

Preovskite solar cells would probably cause an environmental landfill disaster due to their heavy metal content. But centralised storage facilities would be much easier to recycle - especially if they can be used for a very long time.

Clever people huh? If the goal is to make it into your show then clever indeed. I really like your intro.

IMHO long duration grid scale storage will optimise for lifecycle cost per MWh. I'd expect this to select technologies with the minimum capacity degradation per cycle. Liquid metal batteries operate at around the same high temperature as this O2 perovskite cell, and have negligible degradation over 10,000's of cycles.

we don´t need a another super-duper battery, even if it is better than lithium and it theoretically and practically works. We need an open-source battery which we can build ourselves with our 3d-printers/gantry-CNC-routers and recycle it with little effort. We don't want to pay for patents/IP and take part in the consumerism of today's economies. We want independence so when AI is ready, we could connect it to our machines and manufacture everything we need ourselves and produce and store all the energy we require for our living.

Lithium battery storage, hydrogen ammonia, gravity, pumped hydro, oxygen, compressed air… I'm curious to know how the energy efficiency of all these solutions compare, i.e. 90% 80% 75% 60%? Of course, the most efficient might be the most expensive, difficult to build, and short-lived, but… that's a different kettle of seafood for another video.

Open the paper in edge, use the embedded Bing chat to explain away complex concepts and formula, verify with a quick research to squash hallucinations, congrats smooth brain enhanced