Check out the instructional video from Little Wars TV to learn how we played the game: kzread.info/dash/bejne/dqOembefY9S3kdI.html

In hindsight, it’s a minor miracle, some believe near divine intervention, that Gen. Washington survived. Washington’s greatest skill/talent or luck, was to live to fight another day in the first 2 years of the War !

@AristonSparta

2 жыл бұрын

When one follows the Creator and appeals to heaven for assistance...

@JohnPC00

2 жыл бұрын

@Rocc O0137 A shame he wasn't very good at it.

I voted for to support Sullivan, but here to watch this outcome for entertainment value.

@Woc413

2 жыл бұрын

Same here. It made the most sense after seeing the situation Sullivan was in

@FroisonControl

2 жыл бұрын

same. figured trying to not lose half the army by hanging them out to dry was a poor choice

I chose the "Counter Attack" option, because after a few moments to consider things.. saving the Army would be far more important than "protecting a hill". Especially if you lose half your force just for an "objective win".

I chose this because the Sullivan's army got out flanked and were outnumbered. The British managed to take position across the ford's with no resistance ruining any chance to use the geographical advantages the river would provide.

@Karma-yy8yu

2 жыл бұрын

I chose the other option, consider that any retreat costs you, separating armies can be great when planning to overwhelm the enemy with numbers and speed, but in this case, they needed to keep as many alive, rather than give the enemy more space

@wuxiagamescentral

2 жыл бұрын

@@Karma-yy8yu if that was the objective I would have dispersed my troops in a beehive formation to constantly harass and retreat and gradually form a greater army. By swarming we could wear down morale and if the British are less disciplined some stragglers could be picked off

@Karma-yy8yu

2 жыл бұрын

@@wuxiagamescentral but, the brits are the profesionals here, and even on equal terms I doubt guerilla formations would work better for the weapons they had at the time, remember your troops also have morale, and are already losing, not keeping them together might make them desert, you lost 2 defensive positions, you have 2 left, you either go help half the army of split them up and pray the enemy has morons in command

@NoobNoobNews

2 жыл бұрын

@@Karma-yy8yu gureilla tactics were actually very effective when done by the militia specifically. Most militia on the battlefield held some form of rifle or long range musket, which was hard to load but accurate at twice the distance to what the British used. Running around in the fields at range, behind a tree, shooting one or two down every few minutes before running away is actually what a number of militias did in the mountains. They destroyed a few armies that way. It might have been a good idea to try that, but that would not have stopped the armies from reaching their objective. It would have only bled their morale. But this is all hypothetical. the result of this battle as depicted was a gamble. I chose reinforce, but only for a moral standpoint. I thought it was suicide to reinforce and the day was lost. I chose to commit to a last stand for the strategic victory of delaying the British. My war would have ended here if I was in charge. I am bad at surviving.

@lessthanonegaming

2 жыл бұрын

@@Karma-yy8yu historically guerilla tactics were great due to the nature of fighting done by the British, they were great at how they fought but when a dude pops out behind a tree the line shooting isn't nearly as helpful training

I mean losing battles is pretty in character for the American Revolution, it hold the records for winning a war with the lowest percentage of won engagements. The main enemy the British were fighting was bankruptcy, the entire reason why they taxed America was because they were already out of money.

Glad I chose the other option,

I shared this battle on FB. Hoping, A. People will get more interested in History. B. People will take up tabletop battles. Well done gents.

You guys are awesome, it pains me how under viewed this channels videos are and how more American Citizens don't watch more of this content, please keep producing the content you do as long as possible, its a sight for sore eyes now a days in the American History genre. Thank you all so much for the time and dedication that you put into each video, the making of an alternate ending defiantly wasn't required for this sort of project yet it adds so much value to the end product, everything you all make is truly a joy to watch. I give you my greatest and most heartfelt compliments and I wish you all the best of health and vigor in your future endeavors!

@heinz5714

2 жыл бұрын

Its because America is becoming anti patriot, and immigrants dont care about the "white man" wars

I picked this one thinking Sullivan and Washington would withdraw as well. The whole point is preserving the army. I feel bamboozled xD

@JohnPC00

2 жыл бұрын

Washington had an easier time to disengage while Sullivan was overwhelmed. The only right move in this scenario was to support the rest of the army and minimize losses, rather than abandon nearly half the army.

@whynot-tomorrow_1945

2 жыл бұрын

@@JohnPC00 Well then that wasn't well-explained. I seriously thought at least some of them could still disengage. I can't commit the other half of the army to a potentially-doomed rear-guard action while the enemy can still march east and cut off the path of retreat! In the alternate scenario, a British officer is killed, which breaks their southern attack out of nowhere. But at the moment of making the decision, this fact was in no way foreseeable. This is the American War of Independence. Preserving the army to fight another day is the only "right move," because every day the British spend fighting is one more day for European allies to mobilize and British parliamentarians to grumble. In real life, Washington lost this battle but preserved the army. I agree with that prioritization. The fact that unseen fords were crossed gave every indication this battle was already lost, and the main strategic objective of winning the war later should be pursued instead. I still feel bamboozled : \

@JohnPC00

2 жыл бұрын

@@whynot-tomorrow_1945 The problem may lie in that we don't see the entire game play out, only the highlights. I chose to support Sullivan based on the map graphic they used, showing how badly outnumbered he was. To preserve the army it was necessary for Washington to come to the aid of the rest of the army and not abandon it.

@whynot-tomorrow_1945

2 жыл бұрын

@@JohnPC00 I think Washington's reserves were already supporting Sullivan by the time this split in decision-making occurred, but whatevs. In the other video where reinforcements from the south are marched north, there is this square of British forces left unchecked. The road to Dilworth is literally wide open, then a British officer is killed and the whole southern front stabilizes. It struck me as dumb luck. I get where that comes from, as battles are unpredictable and sometimes fortune favors the bold. But I find it unthinkable to leave the path of retreat practically undefended when there is absolutely no guarantee the front will hold. It's the difference between risking the entire army and risking half of the army to ensure the other's retreat. While I do disagree with your decision, I don't think that's the point. This battle simulation teaches me that the decision for the Continental Army to "defend Philadelphia" was born out of propaganda, not sound strategic thinking. At the time, it was seen as preferable for Washington to fight and lose at the gates of the capital than to slink into the forests like some illegitimate insurgency. He was told to fight, and he did. And then he got blamed for retreating. Kinda typical of politics dictating military decision-making, to be fair haha. I just can't see the value in making this battle decisive. The context weighs too heavily.

@BrianHealyMusic

2 жыл бұрын

I thought it would be easier for Sullivan to withdraw as well but it sounds like he wasn't able to do so effectively (not that he chose not to withdraw). But yeah, that doesn't make this the "wrong" choice with the info we had; it just means the dice didn't work out this way.

Great collaboration, and a fine example of how wargaming can explain historical events in an easy to understand format. Not to mention the fun of "pushing lead"!!!

The lesson here is to skirmish a larger force and whittle it down where possible while maintaining the integrity of your forces. Within the unknown parameters, the decision making was limited, and ours much more than the generals who participated. The format was still excellent, though this battle was a blunder to begin with. No matter the course of action you took in this exercise, we wouldn't be here today if the George Washington didn't break the rules of war, let alone engagement.

Thank you for putting this together. The whole thing from start to finish must have taken a lot of effort.

Finally a table top game I can get down with.

Philadelphia was useless to hold, wasn't a production, supply, or critical economic center, also had a large portion of loyalists in the city making a defensive siege risky. Saving Sullivan's army was the only choice! Heck, by occupying Howe in Philadelphia, Saratoga was made possible by the defeat at Brandywine so why lose half the fighting force to protect a small town from changing hands? The leadership had already been evacuated too, so the loss of the city would be negligible in the grand scheme of things.

Lesson learned: Don't go toe-to-toe with the British regulars! Never risk losing the army.

picked scenario 1 - watching this now to see what I didn't pick

What an awesome idea! I really enjoyed both scenarios. Thanks for making, although I get the vibe it wasn't a total chore! Do any of you guys ever play Napoleonic battles?

based upon the map, and positions involved I choose this Option, if Dilworth isn't guarded the British would be able to possibly encircle the army and make an absolute victory without chance of recovery a likelihood

@ttsstrategy2017

2 жыл бұрын

Same if the other forces had moved to support the British could have moved more down and around potentially leading to a full encirclement of the army and even more loss

Such a fantastic battlefield...and video!👍👍

As expected... deciding to save a road but at the cost of the army to defend that same road. Nay, 'tis better to keep the army intact and fight another day. Lose the battle, win the war.

I went with this option as the required objective was to hold the fall back and I saw to much risk of britsh elements bypassing the main us positions, stormtrooper styles. I was also assuming by saying the us must hold the fallback their whole army or the war would be lost if they did not.

@pillager6190

2 жыл бұрын

Bypassing an enemy was not 'a thing' in a Strategic sense until 1918. It was done on a tactical level at this time but usually for a smaller force to avoid a larger one.

Based on the map, supporting Sullivan would have given one of the British armies the chance to just stroll into Dilworth completely unopposed.

@circSquare

2 жыл бұрын

I believe 5:30 explains why that isn't a huge problem. While the rules lawyers might claim that that army of grenadiers would hold Dilworth completely unopposed and 'win the game', it is too small to meaningfully stop the alternate endings more large-scale retreat, as it is an understrength and tiny army of grenadiers whose general recently died in battle.

@zadumanzx

2 жыл бұрын

Xion you are right, the strategic value of loosing the retreat hill and the gate open to Philadelphia isn't show here. The point is that not knowing how many brits are pushing from the south approach makes this a hard choice. Also to commit the full half of the army in a retreat isn't Ideal. I would have taken a quarter of the army to fall back and the rest in an echelon of screening to retreat. Also the slowness of the retreat in the northern position hurts to see. part of the problem that we weren't Washington but only an advisor.

@zadumanzx

2 жыл бұрын

Jus imagine a well anchored brit force in your only viable retreat point. also the moral impact of knowing that.

Huzzah,, Truly a neat experience. Wargames are a fun way to see other factors of outcomes that our timeline may or may not. May the Dice God's grace your rolls.

Man, glad I chose the other option. Came here just to see if I had messed up

this was fun to watch...love the enthusiasm

Yesssss, I did make the right choice in sending reinforcements. Knew it would be worth it.

I chose the other one but came here to see how it ended

Little did you know I prefer tea

Well, conflabbit! It is immeasurably clear that, on this day, a grave err'r occurred. Our men fought bravely and honourably. The gods will bless their souls with favour. It is good that I prefer tea. Gods save the Queen and all that...

great vid

Amazing.. I lost but amazing work

That's of course a benefit of miniatures gaming compared to cardboard ... you can do it outside in nice weather.

I came here to see what the alternative ending was, and it ended how I had expected.

I was born and raised in Schoharie county, NY. It was the breadbasket of the Revolution as it is a fertile farm valley. People who live there are amazed when I say that the American Revolution was literally fought in that area on the ground we're standing on and have to stop and think about it. When you say American Civil war everyone knows where that was fought and when. But when you mention the American Revolution, you get blank stares and questions like when was that fought? Where was that?

To be honest I did not know how many men were in which spots and how well they were set up so I could not make a good guess. I also did not understand how the battles work

Great game!

Of course I always lose bets related to tactics and strategy. Of course I thought that both rebel forces would fall back evenly and meet at Dilworth and obliterate the Brits who'd dare attack... I give up, I'm never playing 4x games again.

I chose to support Sullivan and felt it was the right choice at the time. Support your army, make the front and hold. Sullivan had been able to do that already, he was just running out of time. LOVE THIS STYLE OF VIDEO!

the way i see it, the strategy should always be to pull back in the face of overwhelming force. Save the army.

Nice battle report, what scale are the minis, please?

I knew sending aid was the right call. Glad I picked that one, first. Never leave a man behind!

If the full army was sent in support… wouldn’t the full army than be completely surrounded? It suddenly flashed to a completely unwindable situation

I chose to reinforce for a counterattack. With the American Army split in two, the only chance to win would be to consolidate and dig in for a defense at a strategic position. However, because on flank is on its way to being completely enveloped, there was no guarantee that that flank would disengage. This left me with a choice: Gamble by reinforcing the encircled force, or cut losses and run. Cutting losses an running makes the most sense and is the obvious strategic decision, but also a morally reprehensible one. With so many men being encircled, and only half an army left to defend the strategic position it, I chose to gamble on a counter attack. In this case, the gamble paid off. However, in real life such actions can lead to a complete loss. There is never a guarantee that a split force can arrive in time to save the encircled force, thus committing the whole rest of the army to fight against the consolidated enemy force. Also, that is assuming that the force reaches the field at all. I would have disengaged the moment I saw that I was out of position when the British crossed unchallenged and consolidated at the crossroads for a final stand while Congress fled. Once Congress had fled, I would still try to win, but route the moment the opportunity presented itself... assuming that it ever does present itself. The war would have probably ended for me on that day.

I choose option 1 to try and save the Mainers, this option went about how I expected!

I knew the British would win this one.

I chose the other option and I’m glad I did

As i Brit, i think picked the right answer. Or hang on did i read the rules wrong :D nice content btw. please do more

I chose to reinforce Sullivan in an attempt to get local numerical superiority or at the very least to save the bulk of the army from collapse. Worst case scenario that I saw was a loss of Philadelphia and Howe getting a VERY pyrrhic victory while the rebels' actual fighting men live on to fight another day.

I think the true problem was the initial American deployment. A dispersal of force to cover too much ground. It invites defeat in detail and surrendered the initiative to the British. Because of the American deployment, the British accomplished two strategic penetrations at the fords and a strategic flank march against the American LoC.

I thought this vote was also having Sullivan disengage, so why did he not disengage?? =_=

I chose this option because I am a British person.

I chose this one. I initially wanted to go all in and reinforce sullievan (ending 1). But then I remembered i don't know how long it will take to redeploy green to the north. And that sullievan was Already being overwhelmed and flanked. My fear was that green and Washington would arrive to a lost battle and be cut off from retreat themselves, loosing the entire army. The other option turned out better, but only really becuase of the death of the 1 British general. Had he not died, the yanks wouldn't have been able to retreat in the dark like they do, atleast not without a cross country night retreat which would ah e destroyed the army. Luck made the other option viable. But I suppose fortune favours the bold.

I figured trying to re-enforce Sullivan would simply result in more American casualties and that at the end of the day the British would still prevail. I figured the better option would be to preserve the remainder of the army and hold the road to Philadelphia. One way or another this battle was going to be a tactical defeat for the Americans, I figured I should do my best to avoid letting it become a strategic defeat as well.

My choice was motivated quite simply: Keep men, lose ground. You can reconquer ground, but the men are lost either way. I really just gambled on Sullivans troops to be able to resist the british for long enough that Washington can retreat with as much of his army as possible.

Not how I would have tried to retreat but neat nonetheless

oops! well, enjoy your tea i guess!!!

Was urban warfare not seen as an advantage at this time? The revolutionary side in my mind at least could have benefitted from using the town's as covered fall back positions reinforcing structures with trees and anything else at hand

@amannamed_8072

2 жыл бұрын

The guns were very inaccurate, so the prevailing strategy of the time was everyone gather in a small clump and shoot at the enemy's hopefully larger, looser clump. Pray that everybody aiming at the same target will hit SOMETHING. In a pinch, urban warfare would help protect you, but it would've been a big detriment to organizing your men to shoot back.

@trentweston8306

2 жыл бұрын

@@amannamed_8072 Oh interesting, I was really hoping someone would reply to me. Fighting in the open allowed you to easily concentrate your fire on the enemy more effectively. Do you know if any sword fighting happened in the war e.g. dueling?

@axolotls8883

2 жыл бұрын

@Trent Weston bayonets existed

@trentweston8306

2 жыл бұрын

@@axolotls8883 well yes. So did swords.

Ok I chose this ending, did I pick right?

@TheR00k

2 жыл бұрын

In this scenario, the Americans have lost 40% of their army and are now at a heavy disadvantage defending Philly. You basically abandon Gen. Sullivan to be encircled, making the battle a major loss. The other scenario risks British troops making it to Philly, except they don't push that advantage, and saves the American army. Still a loss, but not a major one, and the city is still protected. It would take a decisive victory to defend Philadelphia from a British threat, but it is possible.

@flyingsquirrel1135

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheR00k Ight so they both were defeats

@TheR00k

2 жыл бұрын

@@flyingsquirrel1135 The other wasn't a major one though

We did it boys, Canadians ftw

What got me about this was I really needed to know the broad-strokes numbers at play when it came time to make the decision and none were presented at that time. I was reliant on the little bit of information I could glean from the video which was too little to make effective decisions. The fact that we were given highlights alone and zero "state of the board" situational information right before presented the decision (I'm not asking for complete information but considering all the reports that Washington should have received, more of his perspective would have been helpful) was pretty damning for Washington with my decision. My impression of how many troops were being left to their fate relative to the total size of Washington's army and the relative size of the attacking army played gigantic roles in my decision. Being aware that it would take considerable time to travel between boards, I was of the impression Sullivan's forces were so small compared to the size of the British forces attacking them that I did not think reinforcements would arrive in time to save Sullivan. And I was also of the impression that Sullivan's forces did not constitute as big of a portion of Washington's army as I saw in this video, my impression was it was a bit of chopping off the hand to save the arm but as the video explains it was more like chopping off both arms and a leg to save the torso. My inability to gauge scale may not be solely the video's fault, but I felt like I had been caught off-guard when decision time arrived and not giving me any sort of summary state of the board information prior to decision time contributed strongly to that feeling. I appreciate what they're trying to do with the choose-your-own-adventure format and some may indeed like the oversimplified forked-road style decision-making. But I found it fell flat by not giving me remotely enough information to even attempt a good decision. Had my understandings of scale and time been accurate I am confident my decision was the best one. Had I understood scale and time as the players in the video had understood it, I am confident I would have made a different decision. By comparison, while Time Commanders did not offer a choose your own adventure format (nor indeed could they) they did a far better job giving the viewer the broad-strokes impressions of the battle (in addition to detailed information) and a better understanding of the decisions at hand and what information is known. I do appreciate that this channel is enacting fog of war and that extends to us the viewer per the format, but to the best of my knowledge Washington didn't also have fog of the brain so more insight into what he would know come decision time would be much appreciated.

I chose this option because I'm British

I choosed this because i thougt it was too dangerous to risk that the enemy encirceld the american.

Damn…..I should have sent in a squadron of F-16s. 😂

*RULE BRITANNIA!*

Dang. I chose this ending. Even though I was rooting for Britain the whole time, I still feel like I let the Americans down.

Good, I love tea. Slavery might as well ended sooner.

If you picked 2 you picked wrong

Well, this sucks. OFC playing the objective results in defeat.

British won, my mission is a succes

I chose this because I was rooting for the British. I’m a spy.

ABT, you know should unlist these two videos right?

RULE BRITANNIA!