9:12 "Like his grandparents did", Queen Wilhelmina was livid when she was transported to London, first ordering the ship to Zeeland. A order the commander of the ship refused and set sail to Harwich. In Harwich she protested at the top of her lungs against transport to London, it lasted for hours before she was willing to board the train. Once in London she acted as if she were there for a regular state visit and would return to the Netherlands the same day. Her personal secretary Thijs Booy wrote a biography about the war and described the events in detail. Even going as far as "if she knew the ship was setting sail to England she would never have set foot on board". There are solid theories that some people involved knew more about the plan but Wilhelmina was not informed.

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for this interesting addition. It would make for a good 'The Crown-style' series. Do you happen to know under what story was she made to get on a boat in the first place? And who was in charge of the plan if not the Queen? Was it the royal house or the civilian government? Just to be clear, we also didn't mean to say that staying in the country would per se have been a better choice. Depending on the circumstances that might also be seen as a sort of condoning of the nazi-rule. We just described a scenario in which the King could block laws by remaining but refusing to sign, but that's not the option taken in WWII.

@Sanderos25

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ciceroni1 The events in the Netherlands were rapid in succession and unfortunately therefore a bit vague. The facts we do know: The Dutch army still fighting captured plans from the Germans to paratroop the 22nd Luftlande Division in and around The Hague in order to trap and capture the queen. There already was fighting on the outskirts of The Hague but these units were to small to capture the city, the 22nd would change that. These plans did turn out to be legitimate. The ship standing by in Hoek van Holland was the British destroyer HMS Hereward. In Harwich a train was waiting to take her to London. Why a British ship while the Dutch fleet was operational throughout the war. The theory is that the HMS Hereward, being a British ship made it possible for the commander to refuse her orders. This all seems a bit to convenient to be left to chance. We also know Queen Wilhelmina called King George out of bed to plan a return trip to the Netherlands as soon as she arrived. When the Dutch government wanted to reform a government in either Suriname or the Dutch East Indies she pushed them to stay in London, a dangerous and actually unconstitutional decision, because London wasn't exactly safe either. As soon as the first city with an airfield was liberated, Breda, October 29th 1944 she immediately started demanding to go back again. Eventually she did go back on May 2nd 1945, well before the German surrender in the Netherlands and heavy fighting was still ongoing.

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

@@Sanderos25 Thanks again for this elaboration. She must have found the fact that she was boarding a foreign vessel strange right? Where did she expect to be going when she boarded? To Zeeland as you mentioned earlier or to the Dutch colonies?

@SuAva

3 жыл бұрын

Wilhelmina was his great-grandmother tho, his grandmother Juliana fled to Canada and his grandfather Bernhard to London.

@Sanderos25

3 жыл бұрын

@@SuAva Prince Bernhard as a husband was attached to Wilhelmina, so they were in the same place. Since Wilhelmina was the monarch he didn't take the most active political role. He did however offer his services to the British secret service in 1938 because of his German roots. During his time in London he trained for flight in the Spitfire, B24 and B25. Against the will of the British government Bernhard joined in the Battle of Britain under a pseudonym Wing Commander Gibbs. Once the RAF command found out they forbade him from stepping foot on another RAF base. So Bernhard approached the American General James Doolittle and he allowed the Prince to partake in bombing missions over Europe. He continued his effort to reform a Dutch Spitfire Squadron, in November 1942 he succeeded and he managed to buy 100 spitfires to form the 322nd Dutch Squadron that still exists to this day. During the war he often joined them on their missions, his favorite target: the V1 Rocket, he saw these things as ultimate evil. After the Normandy landing he was never much further then 40km from the front lines as he also was the supreme commander of the Dutch armed forces and the liaison between the British and Dutch forces. He wanted to be present when the Germans in the Netherlands surrendered, and he was. When he entered the room of Hotel de Wereld in Wageningen, where the surrender would be signed, a German officer made the remark "Ah, finally someone we can speak German with". He refused to speak anything other then English or Dutch and wouldn't say a single word in German. Juliana was in no position to protest, she was ordered to Ottawa with her children.

*Cries in Zeeuws-Vlaams*

What is it with people forgetting the most southern part of the Zeeland in maps. You're missing Zeeuws Vlaanderen. Not the first time I see someone make this mistake lol

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

Or did we do it on purpose to draw attention to this lovely part of the country? Unfortunately we didn’t, but it would be a good tactic. Zeeuws Vlaanderen is rarely as prominent a topic as in comments on this video.

@BiteBolt_77

3 жыл бұрын

Geography Now made the same mistake

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

@@BiteBolt_77 Well that's a relief :)

@robvoncken2565

3 жыл бұрын

yes was wondering

@kylekorona

4 күн бұрын

@@BiteBolt_77yummy

6:03 I can’t tell you how many videos I’ve had to watch before this part right here is clearly explained about how seats are filled.

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Glad you liked it.

@rogerwilco2

3 жыл бұрын

What is hard to understand about proportional representation?

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

@@rogerwilco2 Nothing per se probably.. Speaking french, riding a bike is or eating with chopsticks is not hard either but you have to learn it first..Especially if it's not the norm where you live :)

1:45 It should be mentioned to the Americans watching that most of these republics are semi presidential republics, often with the majority (or even all, although at that point old school political scientist would reject the label semi presidential) of the executive power in the hands of the prime minister appointed or approved by the parliament instead of the elected president. It would be wrong to think of these republics as similar to the US's presidential system. Not to mention that the US is a pretty atypical form of republic as well.

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the extra explanation. We hope to go into more detail on other countries in the near future. Hope to hear your additions and thoughts then too!

@colinosullivan4765

3 жыл бұрын

I would refer to them as parliamentary republics

@IkeOkerekeNews

3 жыл бұрын

Nah. Most European countries are parliamentary, some are semi-presidential, and one is presidential(Cyprus). Semi-presidential and presidential are more common outside of Europe, while parliamentarianism is less so.

@andreasm5770

11 ай бұрын

Not semi-presidential, mostly parliamentary

I'm a Dutchman myself, but still learned a lot! Great video :)

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Daniel!

The way you explain it is great!

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

Very nice of you!

Great video! I would love to see a primer on the different parties this coming election. I know there are a lot of them but it would be great to hear your take on new emerging parties.

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

That is a great idea. We are planning to make a video on some of the new parties and concepts. We won't be able to do so in time for the election in Holland I'm afraid.. We will try to get to it asap. As a Patreon you can actually vote on which video concepts we prioritise. (we of course listen to your suggestions here too but if you can and want to support our channel, we'd be super grateful!)

@ArramzyChaos

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ciceroni1 I don't think it is a bad thing if it happens after the elections, after all it would be a shame if you made a video on all the parties that aren't yet in the second chamber (which you'll know is a lot and would probably be a lot of work) followed by them not winning any seats and not really mattering for the political discourse. I reckon a video about the new parties that actually make it in would be brilliant. (Also thanks for all the amazing videos you make)

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

@@ArramzyChaos Sounds like a plan!

Criminally underrated!! I thought this video got minimum 300k views... The explanation, the style, everything's Perfect

@Ciceroni1

Жыл бұрын

Thanks a lot:)

Easy to understand and very informative. You got a new subscriber! Greetings from the Philippines! 😃 P.S.: I very much look forward a video about dualism practiced in the Netherlands, where MPs who get appointed to the cabinet have to vacate their seats to focus more on their executive roles.

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Very much appreciated :) Your knowledge of the system in a small country on the other side of the world is quite impressive!

@nadrini300

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ciceroni1 Thank you. As someone who works in customer service who has an interest in politics, reading a lot sure do come in handy!

Yessss more Ciceroni!

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

:)

ZeeuwsVlaanderen.jpg was not found

Great video, your Dutch pronunciation is splendid!

@halorecon95

3 жыл бұрын

Probably because he's Dutch, lol

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

Maybe ;) Check our video's in the future how our pronunciation in other languages turns out..

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks! We have had some practice :)

@Zalidia

3 жыл бұрын

He dutch m8, what did you expect lol

@-_YouMayFind_-

8 ай бұрын

​@@halorecon95yes because I hear a Dutch English accent xD😅

\o/ I really love those videos!

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Great job! i learned alot from this!

7:00 ohh! So that’s why, despite the Vvd and the Pvv having the largest parties, the it doesn’t really go their way a lot of the time. I think I’d fall into the Labour Party myself, but I could also go for the Pirate Party. The Party for the Animals strangely falls in line with what I usually want as well, although I don’t believe that we should do away with meat, but maybe just try to eat a little less of it.

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

Plenty of choice near Labour. Like you demonstrate, it also allows people to give a more detailed or weighed vote. You might think animal welfare should be discussed more, or labour laws, or education, or European cooperation. In this many party system, you can express that quite effectively.

Best video I've seen explaining our democracy!

@Ciceroni1

Ай бұрын

Thanks a lot!

Thanks for the explanation , even though I am a German I am still highly interested in the election, since I support the pan-european party volt and want to keep track of their results in other countries

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

Good to hear that you are interested how the neighbours run the show. Volt’s pan-European approach is going to be featuring in our video’s in the future. So keep an eye on us :)

@LevisH21

2 жыл бұрын

great. a German that wants to rule over the entire continent of Europe. Hitler is probably weeping tears of joy.

@vegemarkr4582

2 жыл бұрын

@@LevisH21my parents are from Russia and my ancestors fought and died in ww2, also I am attracted to my own gender. If Hitler was still alive he would want me dead. Also if a European federation would ever exist the Parlament would probably stay in Brüssel. So germany couldn't be in control. Also no other country would want to join a federation if Germany was in complete control of it. Your comment makes no sense. Also, if people don't want a united Europe I find it fine to, it's just my personal opinion and if we never get enough people to support a unification, then I will accept that it will never happen, since I am a supporter of democracy .

Great video, thank you!

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Seems like East and West Flanders invaded Zeelandic Flanders

@googlegmail4636

3 жыл бұрын

do they even count these votes, too remote i guess? 0.000034%, you never need to count them, to know who is winning!

@stephanhessels8369

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah where is Zeelandic Flanders?? 🤣

@joriskbos1115

3 жыл бұрын

Was just going to say this, but you beat me to it

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

@@googlegmail4636 In that logic you could discount every single vote too ;) It's only an infinitesimal part of the whole and will never determine the outcome on its own.

@robertjarman3703

2 жыл бұрын

And then America invaded with Ned Flanders to annoy all the preachers.

amazing video!

@friedrichrobert5656

Жыл бұрын

ALIX The video is amazing.

The waterschappen are responsible for the water quantity, water quality and for wastewater treatment. Basically anything that has to do with managing both the flow and quality of water is governed by this institution, and because the country is so heavily dependent on good water management, this is a very useful governmental body to have.

Good explanation, thank you😊

@Ciceroni1

Ай бұрын

You're welcome!

Good analysis!

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Great video but current day Belgium remained under Habsburg rule (altoughwith a lot of autonomy) after the 80 years war. In 1815 the 2 were one again for short period

Very informative to a foreigner living in NL to know how their government is formed.

9:00 Similar to what happened in Norway in 1940, when the King rejected the pressures of Germany to appoint a collaborationist government and to step down.

great video!

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

Thank Ioan!

Minor detail is that the Netherlands now has 13 provinces, Flevoland being the latest. Both Flevo (West and East) polders and the Noord-Oost polder have been reclaimed from the sea, only two former islands Urk and Schokland where there before. Nice detail is that Flevoland is about 5 meters on average below sealevel.

@Ciceroni1

Жыл бұрын

Those are indeed nice details about the polders and former islands. :) As far as we know, the province of Flevoland is number 12.. 1. Noord-Holland 2. Zuid-Holland 3. Zeeland 4. Brabant 5. Limburg 6. Gelderland 7. Overijsel 8. Gelderland 9. Drenthe 10. Groningen 11. Friesland 12. Flevoland Or did we miss something? We wouldn't put it passt the Dutch to make another one while the rest of the world isn't looking? 😂

@Canofasahi

Жыл бұрын

@@Ciceroni1 My mistake, it was 11 and it is now 12.

@Ciceroni1

Жыл бұрын

@@Canofasahi It's still quite densely populated, so maybe a 13th is not a bad idea 😄

3:20 Well, I don't fornicate with ants and I have never urinated vinegar, and I even live in actual Holland (Noord), but I do not like us being "Holland" as a whole country. It's a bit like saying "California" when you want to say "USA" or "England" when you want to say "UK"

@PossessedPotatoBird

2 жыл бұрын

It’s even worse than doing that It’s like calling the US Maryland

@JamesNewham

2 жыл бұрын

@@PossessedPotatoBird No, it's like calling the US Monowi

@Ciceroni1

2 жыл бұрын

While some people might disagree, it is also used quite a lot among Dutch people. Chanting ‘Holland’ during football matches, the tourism website used to be ‘visit Holland’, etc.

@JamesNewham

2 жыл бұрын

@@Ciceroni1 In het Nederlands verder praten? Ja, Holland wordt inderdaad wel in sommige gevallen gebruikt, maar het is technisch gezien incorrect (oh god ik ben toch een mierenneuker)

03:30 'The Dutch won't be offended if you call the country Holland'. As a matter of fact, we do get offended, I do. To any foreigner, if you don't know the difference between Holland and the Netherlands, then use the latter. The same would go for calling the UK : England. Scottish folks won't be pleased.

@Ciceroni1

Жыл бұрын

Would you truly get offended if a foreigner makes the mistake? Considering Dutch people use “Holland” during events like football matches and even for their state activities like investinholland.nl I think the mistake is understandable.

@Jila_Tana

Жыл бұрын

@@Ciceroni1 I won't feel offended, but I will correct them in the Dutch way. I won't beat around the bush and just say it straight "I'd prefer if you'd use the right name for my country, 'The Netherlands' and not Holland." If the foreigner feels offended by that, that is not my problem. Some do get offended by me correcting them. A 50 year old American lady that my wife was playing with, said 'We learned that in school .. Holland'. Me: "Well, then you learned it wrong". She was from Texas and I carefully called the USA "United States of Dakota", she was not amused. Not my problem. It got the point across.

@KakalakaManera

7 ай бұрын

As someone from Aruba, never call someone from Aruba or Curaçao dutch. You wont have a good time 😂.

@KakalakaManera

7 ай бұрын

Mainly down to how different our culture is here compared to the Netherlands. We even have our own language.

@rudilambert1065

2 ай бұрын

I'm Dutch, from the south (don't know if that makes a difference) and we use Netherlands and Holland as synonyms. Most Dutch do.

What did you do to Zeeuws-Vlaanderen?

@Ciceroni1

Жыл бұрын

Yeah... Edit mistake. We saw it right after uploading...

Which software do you use to make this video? (plz answer)

@Ciceroni1

2 жыл бұрын

We use a combination of mostly Final Cut Pro X and keynote.

Interesting.

"Happily supports small partys", yeah so now we have 37 partys running with 1579 candidates.

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

There are quite a few indeed. Would be interested to hear whether you prefer these many parties or whether you would prefer to have just two in Holland?

@MijmerMopper

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ciceroni1 just two is imo a massive disaster. It motivates making the other side seem like villains over actually making good policy decisions. It's getting excessive here but the core system of say 3-4 main party's and a bunch of smaller ones keeping them on their toes is imo best. It means I don't just vote against a party, I vote FOR a party.

@MijmerMopper

3 жыл бұрын

(And I will fornicate the ants and say I have never and will never live in Holland. I live in one of the other Netherlands.)

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

@@MijmerMopper Couldn't agree more that voting for something is better than voting against something.

@kaas352

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ciceroni1 I think we can all assume that a multi-party system is better than a 2 party system, it's bascially choosing the lesser evil, while in the Netherlands a government is formed of parties that are supposed to be a sort of 'average' of what the Dutch voted for. Also to add to mdsatan, please change the name of the video to 'Elections in the Netherlands', Holland consists of 2 provinces and it's like calling the US Dakota :D

Belgium only became part of the Dutch state after the congress of Vienna. Before that, they remained mostly in Habsburg hands. Luxembourg was also never technically a part of the Netherlands, it was an independent state in personal union. I would also argue that saying that the Dutch Republic showed that monarchs were not necessary is not quite true either. For most of its history, the House of Orange maintained a pretty good, almost monarchical hold on power, not always, but even the strongest monarchies have moments of weakness, eh?

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

You're right of course. That's why we tend to use the map of The Netherlands alone most of the time. For brevity, we have to simplify.. It's only the intro to the actual system.. Always hard to choose what not to tell.. True that the Oranges have been pretty effective in maintaining power, but the idea of a republic, even with a figure like William of Orange at the head, was not something the King of France or the King of Spain was going to be happy with. Regardless that it is not an entire shift to democracy, the whole idea of the people questioning the divine right of the King to rule was pretty worrying. The Dutch 'declaration of independence' didn't say that there was no such divine right but that if the king did not do the job assigned to him by God, the people had a right to declare him no longer their king. Surely Louis would not want the French to get any ideas there, or he might lose his head..

@DarkDutch007

3 жыл бұрын

The many people from the House of Orange, usually called Willem or William in English, were not the monarch of the Netherlands (different name at the time) when they got their independance from the Spanish after the 80 year war, but rather the stadhouder, so not a king, making the Netherlands the newest Republic on the block (there were already city states like Venice who were republics but that is still different than a country). Monarchs in neighbouring countries did not like it as it could spark an idea within the population to overthrow their ruling royalty, although this usually only happens if you don't keep your people happy... American war for Independance against the English/British, France Revolution against the France monarchy/royalty/nobility. During the Napoleonic war the Netherlands (different name at the time) had for a first time a Monarch ruling the country, the other Napoleon, Koning Konijn, after being a Republic for some time. After Napoleon was defeated came Willem of Orange (a different one) and became the first from the House of Orange to be King of the Netherlands.

🗳 ~ QUESTION: only thing I don’t understand is who pics what human is going to be in parliament, and how is it done? I understand the proportional system, but if you have 20 members of your party and you lose or gain members, who picks the actual human that will take that seat? I’m guessing it’s the political party themselves… but is it the party leaders or some actual vote by the citizens of that certain party?

@rob2540

5 ай бұрын

The voting list was very big you could give a preference vote if like a specific candidate. I am guessing that the people with the highest votes get into parliament. So for example: VVD D66 person person person person person X person person person

@Ciceroni1

5 ай бұрын

Good question :) Each party makes a list of humans they wish to put into Parliament. Most parties are democratic so they have their members vote on that list. Depending on the party the members can either just say yes/no to the entire list or make changes of the order of humans on that list. There is one exception in the Netherlands and that is the PVV (the largest party since last Wednesday). That party has no members so their leader, Geert Wilders, basically decides who is on the list all by himself. During the elections voters vote on an individual humans on one of the lists of the parties. In general if a party gets 10 seats, the top 10 humans on the list go to parliament. But there are exceptions. When a human on the list has more votes than the humans 'above' them, they can 'overtake' them. So it happens that the number 11 overtakes the number 10 and claims that seat. In recent years this has happened quite often, mostly women overtaking men due to the 'Stem op een vrouw' movement that advocates for people to vote on a woman on the list to get more women into Parliament. Does this answer your question?:)

@iMatti00

4 ай бұрын

@@Ciceroni1- Yes, thanks.

One tip, Dutch people refer the rest of the Kingdom of the Netherlands by the ABC islands and the SSS islands. It just sounds better in my opinion

You forgot a part of Zeeland on your map of The Netherlands...

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

You're right! Apologies to our Zeelanders!

@RJ-xl2cd

3 жыл бұрын

damn, both Zeeland and New Zealand get left off the maps.

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

@@RJ-xl2cd haha like father like son? ;)

@TheInternetBanana

3 жыл бұрын

Well from the title I would assume it's only about Holland so Zeeland wouldn't be included anyway

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheInternetBanana We might have played a little bit on the more likely word that people search or recognise there :)

What happened to Zeeuws-Vlaanderen?

@Ciceroni1

Ай бұрын

Yeah we sort of lost it in the edit... No offence meant to the beautiful part of the country.

Lived in North Brabent, I never heard anyone refer to the country as Holland internally. It was always very clear it is just a region to the north. Just because a mistake is common doesn't make it right to uphold and justify in a informative style video. I can't speak for any national soccer team supporters or any institutions catering to tourists, but there are definitely provincial identites and pride tied to their names that should be respected. People can feel their province identity is overshadowed when the country is refered to as Holland. Really enjoyed the rest of the video though !

@Ciceroni1

28 күн бұрын

Glad you enjoyed the video :) And of course a fair point about the regional identity! Good thing with Brabant is that they have a very strong regional identity (and a much better 'anthem' than Holland :p)

It would be interesting to see a comparison between the Dutch system and the Switzerland system as these 2 countries are the most efficient nations on this planet ( New science production is the highest in these countries).

@Ciceroni1

Ай бұрын

Interesting. And that's based on new science inventions? Or what do you mean?

@danushairan

Ай бұрын

​@@Ciceroni1 # of scientific documents / total population. Not the best measurement I know but it is a good indication.

@Ciceroni1

Ай бұрын

@@danushairan Ah interesting. So you would argue per capita these countries are most productive on research? Why would you say they are more productive?

@danushairan

Ай бұрын

@@Ciceroni1 I am not sure I understand your question: Are you questioning my assumptions or are you questioning my method? My assumptions such as the number of people in a country or the number of scientific papers they published from 2000 until now are taken from publicly available data sources. On my method: I consider the most important factor within a society is how much knowledge they produce. This is why I consider this as a variable for productivity and NOT creating stuff. The reason is that prices and economic output cannot be compared as half of the countries in the world, do not have actual prices, and GDP numbers are technically meaningless for these countries. ( Iran my country is an example of this) As I said before my method is not the best approach but it is only good to give a general picture.

@Ciceroni1

Ай бұрын

​@@danushairanI'm not questioning either :) I was wondering what you think the reason is behind the higher 'productivity' of these two countries? What is it that makes them produce more science papers?

It's really weird how you missed a part of Zeeland in the contour of the Netherlands, yet (correctly) excluded it from the Belgian contour, so there's this missing piece of Zeeland between the contours of the Netherlands and Belgium haha.

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

We’ve accidentally created a whole new country! :)

@SuAva

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ciceroni1 Ah no one gives a shit about Terneuzen anyway! :D

@diedertspijkerboer

11 ай бұрын

The makers of the vid had secret information that that part of Zeeland will be cut off from the Netherlands and shipped to the Caribbean.

After the 80 years war only "de republiek der 7 verenigde nederlanden" became a republic. Wich excluded all of belgium and luxemburg and also the modern dutch province of limburg. And speaking from personal expierance call us the netherlands and not Holland because we will be anoyed. Only people from holland, Utrecht or zeeland will say we we arent anoyed when being called holland

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

Well we mentioned some people would be annoyed ;) All kidding aside, do you never call it Holland yourself? Either in English or when cheering on the national football team or something? Also do you have an explanation that those from Utrecht or Zeeland wouldn't mind but people from Brabant or Flevoland would? It's all not technically Holland right?

@mikehulsman4735

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ciceroni1 well as a dutch person I only get anoyyed when people from holland, the other western provinces or other countries call us holland but no I would myself almost never call us holland. Altough I would when talking dutch (for example hup Holland hup). Its more that People from the West of the country. So holland and zeeland etc often find and call themselfves more importend then the other provinces. And to clearify I loved your video and thought it was great. Im just easily anoyyed😂

@stefanverspoor70

3 жыл бұрын

I was literally typing: no, we're not at all annoyed by that, but it was only then when I read your last sentence. I'm from Zeeland :)

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

@@mikehulsman4735 Haha that's recognisable :)

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

@R Thanks for your extra insights. Do you feel the pillarisation is still noticeable now in the country?

0:45 I think you forgot a year (if you include the twelve years ceasefire) it lasted 81 years

@Ciceroni1

Ай бұрын

You are right to point out that there is quite some debate on the actual length of the war, so we won't get into a long discussion about that (might be an interesting video on itself though, what do you think?). To keep it simple we just refer to the war with its name "eighty years' war" but not necessarily mean it was exactly 80 years long :P

The recepy for slowing change.

@NLTops

3 жыл бұрын

You realize we're one of the most progressive democracies on the planet...right?

@lisakeitel3957

3 жыл бұрын

@@NLTops what is a "progressive democracy"? If You need consensus of a Lot of differents parties, You need a Lot of time. If you do not need time, they weren't different in the first place.

@NLTops

3 жыл бұрын

@@lisakeitel3957 It means our society has changed leaps and bounds over the decades? It's not about needing consensus of a lot of different parties. You need 76 votes (50%+1) in the 2nd Chamber (Representatives) and 38(50%+1) in the 1st Chamber (Senate) to pass any law. The cabinet (the executive government) is made up of a coalition of parties that together form a majority in the 2nd chamber. They need to form a consensus before they form the coalition. And that *compromise* is their mandate. Every issue not discussed in the mandate will see every party in the 2nd chamber(coalition and opposition) vote according to their own political views. If no majority coalition can be formed (because they can't find a compromise during the formation) we end up what is called "a minority coalition". (Edit: This is extremely rare.) The resulting executive government will require opposition votes and can thus only make changes that have a broader consensus. The beauty of the system is that there is always a compromise. Whether we have a center-left, a center-right or a left-right coalition, the majority of people will see change in the direction they want. And if we are too divided, things stay the way they are. As well they should because no solution is supported by the majority in such a scenario. It creates a far different society (and political landscape) from an adversarial FPTP parliament, where both sides are constantly trying to get one over on the other and undo their hard work.

Ahhhhh, how I love our ingenious system. It's no wonder we tend to have relatively high turnouts for national elections, because we all know that each of our votes weighs the same. If we are to compare the turnout for national elections with the US for example, the US Presidential elections tend towards 50-60% turnouts whereas the Dutch parliamentary elections tend towards 70-80%. The arguement that "sparsely populated areas are underrepresented" always sounds crazy to me. Why would their political views matter more than that of anyone else in the country? The cornerstone of democracy is that we each have an equal say in our country. It is quite literally impossible for anyone to be "underrepresented" in a proportional representation system. Every individual is represented to the proportion of voters that agree with them. I would argue that it's FPTP where people end up disenfranchised. Not only do the votes of sparsely populated constituencies weigh heavier than votes in densely populated constituencies, but FPTP forces a low variety of choice. Other than regional interest parties (like the SNP, DUP etc.) and the notoriously underrepresented LibDems, there is no actual choice for the voters. Left-wing votes Labour, right-wing votes Tory and moderates (so called "swing voters") vote whichever they believe the lesser of two evils. And if you're a Labour voter in an overwhelmingly Tory constituency (or vice versa), you've no representation at all. Sure, they can CLAIM an MP represents their entire constituency... but they can't split their vote into fractions and actually vote along with the varied political views in their constituency. From my perspective, it's a bigger problem that two people from different parts of the same country can't co-operate with eachother when they have the same political views. They live in the same country, right? Then why can't they pool their votes as far as national government goes? It's the "divide and conquer" strategy applied to internal politics. If I were to compare PR to FPTP, then PR is "two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner." and FPTP is "a wolf and two sheep voting on what's for dinner, but still ending up eating mutton.". The 2019 UK election is a perfect example of this. Where 43% of the votes led to a 56% majority in the House of Commons. How is that anything but a 13% error margin?

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

We tend to agree with your analysis. Every vote counting equal feels more democratic than weighing votes differently. Voting Labour in Chelsea is so pointless that you might as well not vote at all.. And that's before we get into the gerrymandering that actively seeks to disenfranchise voters.. However, proponents of FPTP see this quite differently. I'd be interested to hear what you think of the European system. In the European Parliament and decision making generally, smaller countries are relatively much more powerful than large ones. Small countries get more MEP's per citizen as well as a veto in the council. The dutch or maltese veto is equal in power to that of the french or german one. Cyprus with just over a million people can block a law that 400 million Europeans are in favour of. Do you think that should change to a equal PR like the Dutch system too?

@NLTops

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ciceroni1 It's surely an interesting question. If I were "in charge of reforms", I would consider the unproportionality a significant issue. The whole point of the complex structure of the EU's legislative machine is to ensure significant majority support for new legislation both in terms of represented population as well as number of member states. But this ideal is somewhat negated by how it currently works in practice. But I can also see it as a required transitionary step. In my personal idealised view, EU Parliament becomes a true proportional representation of the population, whilst the Council of the EU configurations represent the individual menber states' national interests (which it arguably already does in the current form). But the problem is that true proportionality in the EP requires pan-European parties to be the universal norm. Which has gradually begun happening, with parties like PP and Volt. Once they are the norm, it would be great if the EP became Proportionally Representative, with a votedivisor rather than seats allocated per member nation. This from the same perspective as our national elections: We all live in the same EU, why shouldn't we (be allowed to) pool our votes with those that we agree with, regardless of which member state we are from? Pan-European parties in the EP, A PR EU Parliament, Council(s) of the EU with representatives from the executive governments of each member state, and maintain a 2/3rds majority requirement in both to pass legislation. The Veto should only apply in specific matters (such as EU Membership applications), to prevent one or two countries blocking legislation that has significant support across the EU. (as is currently done semi-regularly by Poland and Hungary). But the membership veto is crucial both to protect the territorial integrity of member states (ex: Catalonia), as well as prevent internal conflict by blocking new member states from joining if they are in active disputes (territorial or otherwise) with current member states (ex: Turkey). Another deficit is the limitations on blocking and repealing EU legislation. I'm not necissarily opposed to the EU Commission as an advisory body with the perspective of the EU as a whole in mind, but I do believe its influence needs to be significantly reduced. Currently, the EP and CotEU configurations can't actually block legislation unless there is a 2/3rd majority in both to ammend the Commission's proposal within 3 negotiating/voting cycles. (even if that ammendment is "The EU will stay out of this matter and leave it to the autonomy of member states"). I would rather see this as the default outcome. This would mean EU law would only pass if there was adequate support for it in both houses, whilst leaving anything without majority support to national assemblies. I would add to this the ability for the CotEU representatives (read: executive governments) to propose the repeal of specific EU laws, to be debated and voted on by the EP and the CotEU similar to any other EU law. In summary, I believe those reforms would fix the democratic deficit of the EU in it's current form and make it a fair system for member states both big and small. The EP will be pan-national and represent the will of the people, the CotEU will represent the national assemblies and thus regional interests. And the EU will stay out of anything where there's no 2/3rds majority support from both. And the combination needs the ability to repeal laws on the same 2/3rds majority basis in such a way that doesn't flood the system with repeal attempts by any MEP who feels like it (hence the repeal proposals originating in the CotEU). What are your thoughts?

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

@@NLTops I think your analysis is pretty spot on. The democratic deficit in Europe should be fixed and pan-european political parties are a great step in that direction (we'll make a video on these in the near future, and would love to hear your opinion on our take then!) The EP could then become a far more real parliament which represents and acts in name of the people across the continent. What you are describing as a balance between states and people, sounds not unlike the US system with the Council taking the place of the Senate. It does inherently have the feature/bug that smaller states have more power in the upper house. Limiting the veto as you describe certainly makes the block more governable and eliminates the worst of the feature/bug mentioned earlier while leaving enough space in the most crucial affairs to pull the break. I'm interested to see that you see the Commission as an advisory board rather than a European cabinet. Would we not better solve the democratic deficit if the Commission was a democratically chosen government (through parliament like in The Netherlands for example)? Possibly with an elected president at its head.

@NLTops

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ciceroni1 I'll definitely be watching future videos and am always happy to be part of the discussion. Well, it's not exactly like the US system, as the Council of the EU (oddly named, when you consider how many configurations it has) quite literally consists of ministers of the executive governments relevant to the sector (example: ECOFIN, all the finance ministers). Whereas US Senators exist side-by-side with the state legislative assemblies. In other words, Senators have no influence over State legislature. Council of the EU representatives link back to executive governments of member states (which tends to mean their internal/national stance matches their external/EU-wide stance). Senators (and State assemblies) have no such allignment. In fact, depending on election cycles, one could even see a Senator moving in the opposite direction of the State assembly. And I would argue that until a stronger pan-European identity has coalesced (and perhaps even after), we NEED the CotEU representation, to ensure that smaller members don't become toothless. The larger nations already have significantly more influence in the EP due to their larger populations, even pan-European parties won't change that amount of influence. Without a CotEU, Germany could singlehandedly overrule many smaller countries by itself. With the CotEU, it would still have to convince 2/3rds of the member states' executive governments. I don't like the idea of an EU Cabinet, because giving the EU an actual executive government with a mandate would weaken the national assemblies. Currently, slightly simplified, the European Council (made up of heads of state) is the executive in charge of external matters, and the EU Commission (made up of appointees by member states) is the executive in charge of internal matters. I like the idea of an advisory board, because I like the idea of a powerless internal executive that contemplates the best course of action for the union as a whole, and advises the EP and CotEU towards certain broader strategic goals, but with those having the ability to modify or reject those suggestions. This ensures that the EU federal (lack of a better word) government won't gradually take away control from the national assemblies (as HAS happened in the US in many regards). And as the European Council is made up of heads of state, it doesn't pose that risk to begin with. If we are to remain a co-operative Union, rather than one that imposes things top-down, then EU legislation must always be based on the compromise between the actual(current day) political landscape. This is also why the power to repeal EU laws is so important.

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

@@NLTops Good point on the difference in alignment between state and senator in the US. What is interesting to consider is the cross border nature of many interest groups. You mention "Germany can overrule smaller states" but that suggests Germany has an opinion, if you know what I mean. Could it not be that farmers as an interest group have an opinion regardless of their country?As soon as parties are pan-european, they will represent farmers/liberals/urbanites/communists/students or whatever group across the EU rather than by member state. Is it not possible that in this new paradigm regions could actually get more power than in the current set-up. If we look at the Netherlands, as comments demonstrate, there seems to be a lot of national priorities based on what the Randstad wants. So the 'Dutch opinion' in Europe tends to be the 'Randstad opinion' not so much that of Groningen or Limburg. On the other hand if rural areas like Groningen join forces with their colleagues in Tuscany or Transilvania in a European farmers party (or something) their voice may be represented much stronger than is done by their national government. Do you feel there is a chance the nation states losing power might actually give more power to citizens in regions that are currently underrepresented?

They were a fright for others? They sure do have lots of hereditary princes.

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

Firstly, quite the honour to have the Great Emperor himself comment here! The Dutch Republic was quite a fright for other countries. Other people might get the idea that they could kick out their King too and do well off it. Not unlike the American and French revolutions which spread in later years, these sort of ideas tend to inspire. One of your predecessors, Louis XIV who positioned himself as the absolutist at the heart of France, was not happy with such a Kingless-narrative. The Versailles hall of mirrors even depicts the French king's victory over the Dutch Republic at one of its most prominent places.

Although I love your “Ciceroni” pronunciation, I still hope you won’t mind me opting for me to be an “azijnzeiker.” Proud to be Dutch from the Netherland of Overijssel. No no folks, I’m not from Holland! ;)

@Ciceroni1

Жыл бұрын

We don't mind at all :) Happy that you are happy!

0:49 EVERY Dutchman can see your using the wrong map for our county. You stop south at the southern most peninsula. You are missing the part of sealand that is surrounded by belgium (Terneuzen and surrounding villages are Dutch, not Belgium) Also: I know they are very little islands, but the map you use does not include rottumerplaat nor rottumeroog (in the upper most right corner), which are Dutch, not German And on most maps we include things like the afsluitdijk and the dyke from lelystad to enkhuizen, and the dykes connecting flevoland to the mainland, and the deltaplan dykes, all as lines Correct map: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Zeeland_in_the_Netherlands.svg

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

We missed quite a few lovely places indeed. Unfortunately, KZread doesn’t allow editing after uploading.. :( Next time we use a map of the Netherlands, we’ll make sure to triple check!

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

In case you are interested: as a patron (on patreon) you get early access to the video. If you spot mistakes then, we can actually integrate it into the final public version.

For everyone this is an explainer about dutch election, for dutch people its a place to go to get angry at the dutch map being represented wrong

@Ciceroni1

Жыл бұрын

Great way to boost the comments haha…

Attention: the map leaves out Zeeuws Vlaanderen

@Ciceroni1

Жыл бұрын

Yeah we sadly noticed this error just after uploading. It must have fallen off somewhere in the edit without us noticing...

Oh, I did not know we only had elections in two of our 12 provinces: Only in North and South Holland, is it? Not in Noord Brabant, Utrecth, Limburg, Zeeland, Drente, Groningen, Friesland, Overijssel, Gelderland and Flevoland, is it? Our country is called 'the Netherlands'. Not 'Holland'. Its like calling all US citizens 'new yorkers'. Or calling all from the UK: 'englanders'. We are a coöperation of provinces. Holland is just two of those provinces. Calling the netherlands holland is insulting the majority of Dutch. upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/Groot-Nederland_en_haar_provincies..png/1024px-Groot-Nederland_en_haar_provincies..png

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

Technically it’s called The Kingdom of the Netherlands ;) but you are right of course that The Netherlands is a more accurate name than Holland. I imagine most Dutch people will forgive a foreigner the mistake. But how do you feel about Dutch tv shows like ‘Heel Holland bakt’ or ‘Holland’s got talent’?

@baskoning9896

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ciceroni1 Sure, I will forgive a foreigner, like a tourist, for saying 'holland'. Its also a bit of a geuzennaam now: as in 'hup, holland, hup' when our team plays. The 'heel holland bakt' titles are not what gets me angry (there are more important things to get angry about), but they do seem a bit randstad-centric to non-randstad dutchies. There is a undercurrent in the randstad, that only the randstad matters. The rest of the Netherlands kinda thinks the randstad could be nuked, and that would improve the country. Its a bit like 'heren' tegen 'boeren'. I am from Eindhoven: we call ourselves 'BOEREN! BOEREN!' as a geuzennaam. We are PROUD not to be randstad. And will not react to people calling us 'hollanders', since we are Noord-Brabanders. Its not that we hate people that call us Hollanders, we only roll our eyes. Its how to get into our hearts: call us, what we are: Nederlanders, or Brabanders, and our hearts will jump up in joy, making it much easier to make friends.

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

It is interesting to hear your point of view. What do you think of the plans to extend the Randstad to include Eindhoven? Do you feel that would change your feeling toward it? And how will it effect the non-randstadters view to Eindhoven? And do you call yourself a ‘Noord Brabander’? Ive mostly heard Brabander and the region described as Brabant too unless on a map. Including is Guus Meeuwis’ anthem. And this raises the next interesting question. Do you feel more akin to the Belgian Brabanders or the Dutch non-Brabanders? Or are they both equally your people?

@lcjgoossens4488

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ciceroni1 I'm also not a Hollander and won't watch shows with 'Holland' in them. Nor would I sing along with 'hup Holland hup'. The amount that is against being grouped in as Hollanders is bigger than you think. For me personally it is a matter of principle, even towards foreigners. The Hollanders are the oppressors of old, I don't feel kinship towards that name.

Omg the system is rather similar with my country, Malaysia, but rather my country are more complicated as we practice federalism of government. It's look something like this: The SUPREME KING (YDPA) 👑 (rotate every five years between 9 Malay Royal Houses) also have to sign the bill that has been approved by both Chambers. But if the law weren't signed by the King it still automatically install. ⬇️ Prime minister as the head of government (chosen by the lower House) ⬇️ Parliament bicameral People's assembly (lower house) ❌🖋️✅ same with the second Chamber And State Assembly (senate) ✅❌ ⬇️ State government Head of state -Sultans and Governors(for state without monarchs) ⬇️ Chief ministers (like a pm) ⬇️ One legisletive chamber for each state called state legisletive assembly. Control water resources, land, taxes etc. ⬇️ The people choose the MP for lower house (people's assembly) and state legisletive assembly every five years in General Election.

This is an interesting country. US general election, Merkel retiring, and even Cantonia fighting for independence are all hotter issue on TV than its own election.

@NLTops

3 жыл бұрын

It's what an "outwards facing perspective" looks like. We're just a small country, if we want to do well in the world we need to understand what is happening elsewhere. Far different from the new "global Britain" seeking to regain its former glory and influence.

It cant stress this enough,the country name is NETHERLAND if anyone knows english that is the name of the country

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

It is. With the article 'The' or no?

@ShahYT.Official

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ciceroni1 whoops (its) the correct word and yes (The) is the word to pronounce the country name

In the end it still doesn't matter who you vote for. We'll still have Rutte until eternity

@cluelessmango768

7 ай бұрын

No longer! He's fallen!.. Finally... Though the VVD still has a realistic shot at becoming the largest once more.

353 muncipalities this year

@ikkkkkkke1

3 жыл бұрын

356, u forgot the caribbean.

The only reason for calling Amsterdam the capital of NL is... the monarch gets her/his crown there (and also because Amsterdammer people have/are such big mouths).

@Ciceroni1

Жыл бұрын

I think people in Amsterdam are happier with the title of capital than any other city would. So we can be glad they enjoy it:)

3:25 Large part of the Nether-Hollandrians dont know either. Country so dense they cant read the names on the map anymore.

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

It is a busy place isn't it? :)

@carmagadon11

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ciceroni1 Very much so, very lively.

Quite similar to Norway, but not the same.

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

A lot flatter ;)

The guy forgot a part of The current Netherlands Zeeuws Vjaanderen. It is Dutch not Belgium.

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

Yup we did.. We also didn't include it in Belgium either as you may have spotted.. so it disappeared entirely.. Who knows, maybe one day Zeeuws Vlaanderen will claim independence and we will turn out to be right after all!

Keep your country sovereign!!!

You are making some big mistakes at the beginning of your video. The Dutch Republic has never been ruled by "the people", but by the nobility and some big cities at the Statenvergadering. Ordinary people had no power.

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

True. It is relative of course. Compared to a Sun King in France the Dutch republic was ‘people centric’ but of course that was still only a fraction of the population. The same is true for ancient Athenian democracy. It was democratic compared to Persia but far from everyone participated in the process. To this day, democracy does not include everyone in an equal manner.. much work is left to do.

@King-sy9we

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ciceroni1 Thank you for your reply! Although you have made a very interesting and well-made video, you are unfortunately falling into the same trap most people do when talking about the history of their own country, which is exaggerating historical facts. It is not really a matter how relative the situation was. The Dutch situation in which the nobility had most power, and power was decentralised, was not really that different from the situation in the Holy Roman Empire, England or France in the centuries before the Sun King. Having a king who was able to hold centralized power was kind of a new phenomenon during that period. Therefore, you could even argue that the political situation in the Netherlands was very conservative. Most contemporary historians also tend to see it in this way in my experience.

I came here to see how the Dutch election system works and you didn't explain it. I just want a 2 minute explanation of how it actually works. As I understand it you vote for candidates not parties but the order of the candidates on the list is determined by the party not by the voters.

@Ciceroni1

2 жыл бұрын

Haha well we tried explaining many things in our video. As for the lists: parties put forward the lists themselves so they decide the order of candidates. Depending on the party the order of the candidates is decided by different forms of indirect/direct democracy or by the leaders of the party. During the elections people vote on an individual candidate on the list. The total votes for a party (all candidates combined) decides the amount of seats. In principe the order of the list is followed, but if a candidate has more than 25% of the needed votes for a seat, he or she can move higher on the list. In that case the candidate will ‘overtake’ anyone above them on the list with fewer votes. There are currently multiple people in parliament who ‘overtook’ people higher on their party list because of these preferential votes.

@ClayShentrup

2 жыл бұрын

@@Ciceroni1 Yes I was able to find this elsewhere. It's a reasonable system although deeply irrational to have hard cliffs like a 25% rule. You want smooth functions ideally. Of course this was made probably 100 years ago by someone who didn't have a math PhD. The science of voting has moved forward tremendously.

Now I know why itchy boots runs her bike all over the world... Life is simpler out here

We didn't change our mind the English and France royal house's forced us to take back our king or they invaded the Netherlands again.

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

True. Therefore we say ‘appear to have changed their mind’. It could be argued that the Dutch have changed their mind, after having a king forced on them.. today the country is fairly pro-royals. It is unlikely that it will become the Republic of the Netherlands anytime soon right?

@markknoop6283

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ciceroni1 i hope they leave the EU first. And the kingdom wil maybe come later.

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

​@@markknoop6283 Ah so Willem needs not worry anytime soon. And why would you like your country to leave the EU? (I'm assuming you are Dutch)

@markknoop6283

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ciceroni1 No Willem the 3th kan still relax. The EU is not working as a union the southern country's keep spending money they Don't have. The smaller northern country's can't keep supporting this system.

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

​@@markknoop6283 This is a very common feeling in northern Europe which most media and most politicians are happy to keep peddling but it is not really that simple. Did you know for example that southern states such as Italy actually have been more frugal than The Netherlands for many years now? Italy actually gets more money in from taxes than it spends. So despite what Wopke Hoekstra and Dijselbloem have been saying, their own budget has actually been less balanced than that of their Italian counterparts. The massive problem Italy has is the interest payment on debts that were made in the 1980's. This was in a period where Italy could inflate its own currency, which due to the Euro it cannot do any more. Neither can it default on those loans because that would negatively hit the entire Euro-zone. This should have been clear to anyone designing the Euro. As well as that the low inflation policy from the ECB that has served Germany and The Netherlands so well, would be a noose around the neck of the South. Also, just like The Netherlands, Italy is a net-contributor to the EU. They pay more into the EU than they take out. Receivers of EU money are countries like Poland and Hungary. We're not saying you should now support the EU of course. But just wanted to give another angle to an argument that we see consistently miss-reported. It is an easy story that gives politicians and media a nice narrative, but it isnt really true.

Queen Wilhelmina didn't flee after the German invasion of may 1940, she was actually forced to step on a British destroyer and go to England by van Kleffens and Dijkshoorn (min. of foreign affairs and min. of defense resp.)

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the correction. Although technically that's probably still fleeing. 🤓But granted, she did not do so out of her own accord. We also didn't say that they were wrong to flee, or that they did so to save themselves. We merely compared it to the imaginary scenario we pondered in which the King delays lawmaking by remaining in place but not signing laws.

Het blijft jammer dat ze de kroon uit het formatieproces hebben gegooid. Sinds dien is het elke keer mieren, draaien en moddergooien in de pers.

@Ciceroni1

Ай бұрын

Is dat de reden voor het moddergooien etc? In de Tweede Kamer is die trend naar hardere politiek algemeen te zien toch?

We had elections in the rest of the country too, not just in Holland, A bit stupid to think that wouldn't you say?

@Ciceroni1

Ай бұрын

Most English speakers refer to the entire country as Holland. Some languages even have that as the official name. But yeah, there are elections in all of The Netherlands, including the municipalities in the Caribbean:)

Zeeuws-Vlaanderen is Dutch. You forgot it on the map

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

And that’s not even the only part we missed..

its the Netherlands

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

It is :)

Their system is way complicated...

@Ciceroni1

2 жыл бұрын

And this is only 1/27 national systems in the EU 🤪 If you like it complicated, Europe's got what you need!

The holland thing is genuinely bs, Brabanders, Frisians and Limburgers would never call the Netherlands 'Holland'

@Ciceroni1

Ай бұрын

Not even in case of cheering for the Football team (Hup Holland Hup, Viva Hollandia, etc.)?

Maybe yoy can explain, because I cant follow this destruction of the netherlands by the government..

@Ciceroni1

23 күн бұрын

What are you specifically after? There is quite some stuff that gets criticism now and the past few years

AMSTERDAM WELL DONE! I MYSELF ABORIGINAL, HAVE GREAT DIFFICULTY EXPLAINING ,,US,, TO MY MANY ENGLISH SPEAKING FRENDS SO MOST OF THEM GET ,,DICK TURPIN,, A HIGHWAYMAN ROBBER. AND NOW MISSION IMPOSSIBLE ,, EEN ZETELROVER,, AND NOT ONE, AND ALL LEGAL.

3:25 Calling the country "Holland" is actually quite offensive. Ciceroni clearly hasn't spoken a lot of people from the provinces of Brabant, Limburg or Friesland. They will be offended. It is like calling someone from Scotland an Englishman.... I found out the hard way, and I'm Dutch myself. It's The Netherlands. Stick to that.

@therealdutchidiot

3 жыл бұрын

Quite right, though I think it's more like calling the USA "Dakota". As someone from Drenthe who feels the north of the country is left out a lot as it is, it's another jab to say "yeah, you don't matter".

Sadly the whole system is now bypassed and the Netherlands is ruled by the olichargs from Brussels. Like the king the parliament is now mostly ceremonial.

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

That's a feeling a lot of people have and politicians are very happy to use Brussels as a nice scapegoat to hide behind. But it's not quite true really. Are those oligarchs in Brussels by any chance the prime minister of the Netherlands and the other countries? They make up the Council which has a veto on every law made there.. The only two people in the Council that are not elected via national elections, are the President of the Council (currently Charles Michel) and the President of the Commission (Ursula van der Leyden) and they are not allowed to vote or veto.. So the prime minister Mark Rutte, who comes from the parliamentary elections, is still pretty powerful. No law is passed in Europe that he did not vote in favour of. If he really didn't want it, he could have veto'ed it. So don't make it so easy for your national governments and don't fall for the 'Brussels decided' story. Your national leader was always there and could have stopped it if he wanted.

@bramvanduijn8086

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ciceroni1 Excellent addition. Also, while it would be a breach of EU law, the Netherlands can decide not to follow any of the EU laws. We are not slaves, we just decided to cooperate. It is similar to an agreement you make with your housemate to do the dishes: You are free to not do them, but it will make them upset with you. They might even mention it to you instead of just glare! Or refuse to take out the trash in revenge! This does not mean they rule you with an iron fist, it just means that actions have consequences.

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

@@bramvanduijn8086 Good point well made.

Here is Dutch democracy in a nuttshell: We have no democracy. We take commands from Brussel, without having the democratic means to influence that at all on a national level: we can vote 'yes' all day long, but if Brussel says 'no', its no, and there is no way to remove these overlords: since referendums have been abolished, and we can only elect european parlementarians that can vote on european laws: NOT introduce them (at all!). We had TWO referendums about us not wanting to join the EUSSR, but the traitors in government 'did it anyway', ignored the then second largest party in the country COMPLETELY, and signed over our sovereignity to Brussel. Oh, and they abolished referendums. And called true democracy 'populism' as if its something dirty. This was all AFTER the dutch deep state 'got rid off' (shot dead) Pim, when he was elected Prime Minister (his party was largest, and would make the coalition). Democracy died the day Pim died. 20 percent of the population has had it with the government, stopped voting (why, since it does not matter anyway), and dreams of a (violent if need be) revolution that hangs all the globalist corporate fascists bastards high.

@windws7137

Жыл бұрын

At least the elites didn't set your country to be a battlefield for resolving their interests and testing new warfare. Ukraine has always been consisted of several clans of oligarchs who sucked resources, but after the 2014 coup the america's elites joined to rule it as a puppet. Now they completely untied hands and f*cked it all. With brainwashing media people here also braindead and approve it. Netherlands got its wealth in exchange to be obedient to do what Brussel say, vote this, vote that. I wish we had the same purpose.. but no, the elites made us to be bullet meat.

The netherlands* dingdong

Proportional representation = Party leader loyalty instead of loyalty to voters (Party leaders decide how high up or down you place on the list, therefore how likely you are to actually be given a seat in government)

Let me tell you how it really happened in one word: FRAUD!!!

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

Do tell. Who, where, when and how?

@anneliendekramer9243

3 жыл бұрын

Zeker een trump fan? Niemand neemt je serieus. Alleen andere trump zeikerts

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

@@anneliendekramer9243 Not nobody.. the group that believes this is pretty big.. Let's not forget Trump did get almost half the US-votes.. I also do not believe there has been fraud and have seen absolutely no proof of it in America or in The Netherlands. But I don't think that should stop me or anyone else from listening to people's concerns. We might not agree with the other side of the argument but it's probably best to take each other seriously. Otherwise the debate becomes ever more impossible.. If we want a proper democracy in which everyone is heard, we should also all listen, no?

@anneliendekramer9243

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ciceroni1 the world is at a turningpoint. Everybody can feel it. The love, understanding and concsiousness is growing in a lot of people. But the psychosis, hate and greed and so on, Is also growing in a lot of people. Its feels like a classic battle royale.

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

@@anneliendekramer9243 Then let's make sure we add to the love, understanding and consciousness :)

SPOT OF BOTHER. SOME OF US EUROPEANS HAVE DIFFERENT SENSES OF HUMOR. NO NEED FOR ,,SPITE,, IN THE COMMENTS. MORE OLD SCHOOL BRITISH AS IN ,,MY RIGHT HONEURABLE FREND ON THE. LEFT/RIGHT,, ( TAKE YOUR PICK ) WHILE IN THE MEAN TIME HATING EACH OTHERS GUTS

GEKOLONISEERD

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

Brief is good but we are going to need a little bit more than this to know what you mean.. Please elaborate :)

@leonc.k.7346

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ciceroni1 this comment section is not colonised by the Dutch.

Too much history of the country and division of seats after the elections, rather than parliamentary elections and history of democracy. Interesting in itself, but false adverising in the description.

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

We have to make choices to make the video somewhat more interesting than merely a runthrough of the system. Especially because we are looking to make these video's for all European countries. We want to show some of the interesting facets of the system/country. In Holland we focussed on monarchy vs democracy, coalitions building and many small parties. We felt these would be interesting peculiarities for people who have a different system. On the other hand we want to keep the names fairly simple and somewhat consistent rather than the perfect description..

@ThW5

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ciceroni1 ​ @Ciceroni Yes, but you made the wrong choices, your selection of a map lacking overseas parts,(Bonaire, Saba, Statia, Zeeuws Vlaanderen) is a mere example of that. Your tumbnail says ELECTIONS EXPLAINED and you descibe it "In the second video of our series about elections and democracy, we talk about the parliamentary elections and history of democracy in The Netherlands". Granted, it does not have to go in detail, but things like the Dutch system is one of midweek elections, there are 37 parties participating in the current/upcoming of which a mere 20 can get votes from each of the 20 electoral districts and that those electoral districts mostly correspond to historical units of dissimilar sizes, or that the Dutch voters have the right to observe the counting of the votes too, are a lot more interesting for people who want to know something about how elections in a particular country work, which is what thumbnail and description did indicate... For people attracted by that, watching this is basically a waste of time.

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

@@ThW5 We are very sorry if we wasted anyone's time. Everyone is already so busy that we really can't be doing that.. We feel it is probably more interesting for people to understand what the Dutch are voting for, what happens after the vote and why the system is the way it is. That explains the elections more than the technicalities of the actual vote. We tend to think that whatever system we are in is inevitable, standard or most logical. But presented with a different context we tend to see the reasons for other countries to do things differently and possibly learn from it. Technicalities alone don't really do that for most people (we think).

@MissMoontree

3 жыл бұрын

@Ciceroni I'm glad you made the video like this. It reminds me of maatschappijleer. It is neutral and explains very clearly how our political system works. I feel more people could use a short class/reminder on what we are actually voting for.

@ThW5

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ciceroni1 That's a point of view, but that in different electoral districts different sets of candidates and parties are running, is not a mere technicality, for people interested in the elections. It is ttrue that we often think incorrectly that our system is inevitable, but when the thumbnail says Dutch elections the system is: Midweek voting, open list proportional representation, with 20 electoral districts with their own (partially identical) ballots, which is for the division of the seats considered as one constituency. A system in which it does not matter for the influence of your vote whether you vote in Assen or in The Bottom (both NOT in Holland), but where you have considerably less choice in The Bottom (a mere 21 parties on the ballot there)

Shit! I thought the whole of the Netherlands has elections.. apparenlty only holland hmm..

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

The other 10 were there too! :)

NOT HOLLAND.

@rob2540

5 ай бұрын

Actually in the dutch footbal song we say 'viva hollandia' You can say we are holland and nobody will get mad.

Heee Zeeuws Vlaanderen hooet bij Nederland, oeos blunder, jamner , triest

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Dirk, you are quite right of course. I hope despite this regrettable flaw you were still able to make your way through the video

Holland comes from Holtland.... woodland.. you forgot a part of Zeeland... The rest is correct.

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

Is that so? Very interesting. Is that certain or a theory? Don't make it so easy on us though. I'm sure you can find more mistakes! ;)

@rmanpojo8485

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ciceroni1 I'm Dutch and learned this at school. You can read it on the Wikepedia.

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

@@rmanpojo8485 We learn many things in school that aren't quite right :) But there seems to be quite some agreement on this fact indeed. Thanks for pointing it out!

@rmanpojo8485

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ciceroni1 I Remember this teacher very well. She was educated at History department at University At Leiden. A well know University here. In her class we did some history group project, subject: a old buiding in our Town. She baked pancakes at her home for the best group.

@anneliendekramer9243

3 жыл бұрын

Holland means hollow land. Instead of a hill. We are under sea level. Like a bowl.

Nice content, but I vote NO! on calling this beautiful country Holland. So NO this video will not be recommended by me to anyone who needs and explanation about Dutch politics. Calling this country Holland is abject onjuist! It actually is like calling the USA--> Carolina and refer to the USA as Carolina all the time... Nope, not gonna happen. Holland is no country it are 2 provinces: Noord (North) Holland and Zuid (South) Holland and all other 10 provinces are not Holland at all.

Why refer to the Netherlands as Holland? That's like referring to the United Kingdom as England

Rutte made everyting impossible.

Jezus H, it''s THE NETHERLANDS - stop using the H word... Please demonitize this channel.

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

Probably best if we don't cancel everything we don't like.. would make a rather boring world. Also you are overestimating how much money we are making here ;) Other people have made very eloquent, insightful points in the comments. They have had far more effect on our and everyone else's perception and understanding of the Holland/Netherlands debate. Their intelligent remarks made us rethink. Talking to each is other always best :)

@9delta988

3 жыл бұрын

Jeez, try to be woke just once in my life and all I get is a civil response ;-).

@Ciceroni1

3 жыл бұрын

​@@9delta988Haha sorry! :) Let's give it another go for our next video.. Maybe we can get into a slogging then! ;)

Dutch dictator.

@Ciceroni1

Ай бұрын

Who is?

The Netherlands is going to a end

Love the Dutch… beautiful people… but they need to stay out of politics… Germany makes the rules in Europe… the Dutch should stick to providing fruit and veg to Europe and pass the ‘dutchie’ around..😂

@whateverIwasthinkingatthetime

6 ай бұрын

??

You do not know what you are talking about. There is no democracy, go do your home work.

@Ciceroni1

2 жыл бұрын

Don’t like homework..