I was uncertain if the dialogue for the children was still in the files, so I consulted with Sekiro Dubi, who has been working on a big archival process for all the dialogue files. Conveniently, it not only still existed, it was all even loaded in Raya Lucaria by default, so I was able to just swap some IDs around with Cheat Engine and record it ingame. According to Sekiro Dubi, the way the audio was loaded is particularly strange though, there's a special "quest file" that was used, bypassing the usual method for loading the audio for NPC dialogue. We're not sure why it's loaded that way, so it's a neat thing to have stumbled onto. Check out Sekiro Dubi's channel here: kzread.info Here's the full list of their unused lines, for ease of reading: Who's that? Who could it be? A new child, Mother's newborn. A new friend. A new playmate for us. Just watch, he'll be born again. Just watch, she'll be born again. Then Mother will hold him tight. Then Mother will hold her tight. He'll be so warm, warm and cosy. She'll be so warm, warm and cosy. That'd be nice, so very nice. If we're turned to stone, will we be born again? Will Mother hold us again? Will we? Will she? That hurts. Please, stop that. Did he just die? And him, too? Is he not a friend? I can't tell… Is she not a friend? I can't tell… Maybe he's something else? Maybe she's something else? Can we still be friends, if we try? Yes, we can be friends, I'm sure. He'll understand, if we just explain. She'll understand, if we just explain. Catch! There! Squish him! Squish her! Off you go! Smoosh him! Smoosh her!

@Joyful_Traitor

Жыл бұрын

Honestly that unused dialogue would have probably unnerved me too I have seen videos of people attacking Miriel and I refuse to hit him just to see it for myself, so hitting the childlike scholars would definitely make me hesitant to fight them

@half_chub

Жыл бұрын

the turning to stone part implies they understand and know they can become graven schools and graven masses. utterly terrifying

@jonlava173

Жыл бұрын

Well Done, O Well Done!

@SekiroDubi

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the shout! Interesting research this was. Hopefully one day we'll understand if this was some sort of alternate quest, or something else.

@victormiller1420

Жыл бұрын

Most likely reason is sound clutter they likely didn't want to overload your ears while trying to identify the channeler considering that they sometimes would be behind bookcases or cover.

Just when you'd think that these creepy children couldn't get creepier I find this. Thanks Zullie, I will now rather be reborn as a grub

@sabotower1792

Жыл бұрын

Reject humanity, return to grüb

@Voice_of_p

Жыл бұрын

We both know: you dont want that.

@BossReo

Жыл бұрын

Sounds like something out of a Dream...

@sylomcz1588

Жыл бұрын

Would rather return back to MONKEY!!!

@KATinBLACK

Жыл бұрын

You’d rather be reborn as a Revenant? What a sicko

In the animated _Peter Pan_ the Mermaids say, _"We were only trying to drown her."_ when Peter scolds them for attacking Wendy, because fairy folk are immortal and don't really grasp those concepts of what death means. That naïve, child-like attitude towards death is something old folklore about fairies used to convey a lot, so it's interesting that it was a lot more overt in earlier plans for that encounter with Rennala's little sweetings. It was likely both difficult to balance that dialogue with the pacing of combat events, but also most of the time you get dialogue like that is when you're attacking an NPC you're not meant to fight. It likely ended up being removed to avoid making confusion for feedback on the player's actions, and because of implementation difficultly in making it clear. Really cool to see the concept behind what's happening even though the final in-game execution was altered.

@jbark678

Жыл бұрын

Good catch, haven't thought about Peter Pan for a while.

@trevorweisberg8470

Жыл бұрын

It's why I love the fey, they're mindset is so alien they don't even exist on the same morality scale.

@PierceArner

Жыл бұрын

@Crab in A Top Hat This is a good clarification because that's why their particular type of immortality makes it so difficult for them to understand death as something permanent and consequential. It's vastly different from the perspective of immortality that god have, the conditional immortality of vampires, or the agelessness of fantasy elves. To add to that, the smaller fae don't have the ability to grasp things the same way humans do. Again, to mention Peter Pan, Tinkerbell changes colours because the little fairies can only experience one emotion at a time which is why they're impulsive in a child-like way. Those both add to how Rennala's sweetings becoming gravestones makes it EASIER for them to be born anew, and their short, imperfect lives, and limited memories aren't a source of fear for them even if objectively they have a somewhat terrifying cycle of Rebirth & Redeath that they're forever locked into.

@arbsan8366

Жыл бұрын

Wow I haven’t thought of it this way before!

@liamzakhaev

Жыл бұрын

@@PierceArner And do You know what I've noticed those elves, gods and vampires have in common regarding their forms of immortality? most of them are still terrified of dying!

I think it be creepier if you respawned in Rennalas boss room in their garb when you died.

@kylestanley7843

Жыл бұрын

If you somehow had the rune of rebirth before the fight, that'd be very feasible.

@khajiitimanus7432

5 ай бұрын

Maybe someone can make a mod adding a grab attack to phase 1 Rennala where she rebirths the player - instantly killing them, removing 1 level, and respawning them with a juvenile scholar robe. It stops when they're back at their class's starting level. The explanation for why they're not a full juvenile scholar being that they're a Tarnished guided by grace, and thus barely protected by Marika's influence.

@Birb56

3 ай бұрын

@@khajiitimanus7432removing one level would be way too busted, imagine fighting her at a low level and all of a sudden you literally can’t even use your weapon anymore

@khajiitimanus7432

3 ай бұрын

@@Birb56 Yes, but they did it before, in a previous game.

@Totallynotkyubey

2 ай бұрын

@@khajiitimanus7432 Was it demon's souls or even king's field? In any case I bet they realized that such attacks are only a massive gut punch for new players, nobody falls for it multiple times and it could cause soft locks, so it wasn't revisited.

I agree with the latter option that it was removed due to phase 1's gimmick being audio cue and having them speak would potentially make it more frustrating/harder to rely on audio cues. I do wish it could've stayed one way or another. It's really eerie how childlike and nonchalant they are about dying.

@MrJinglejanglejingle

Жыл бұрын

I agree. The singing would've been distinct, and probably just made a bit louder. We know Fromsoft isn't adverse to making shit creepy or disturbing.

@alastor8091

Жыл бұрын

They should've brought the Sweetings back after the fight when the area is peaceful and had them wander around and speak.

@MrFRNTIK

Жыл бұрын

I was thinking it would make for a cutscene.

@LashknifeTalon

Жыл бұрын

Another possibility is that they couldn't get the sweetings to not all talk over each other, resulting in a chaotic cacophany of their attack/damaged voice stabs making it just more noisy than creepy. Also, even if they had all been talking it would still be possible to visually find the singer; I actually had trouble telling which direction the singing was coming from so I just patrolled around the arena looking for them visually, and I cleared this fight just fine.

@benadrylcumbersplatch6448

Жыл бұрын

Y'all mean to tell me I'm supposed to rely on audio cues and not run around frantically looking for the right child to murder!?

Miyazaki: I want to kill kids but how do we do that without killing kids. Martin: Great Rune of the Unborn?

@Cassius609

Жыл бұрын

*hides the dead baby model attached to Oceiros* There we go, perfectly safe now.

@hateful8bit

Жыл бұрын

@@Cassius609 I was thinking the Exact. Same. Thing. His censorship is legendary.

It's probably because the renalla battle is already pretty busy soundwise, it'd probably sound really terrible if every scholar was talking each time they throw a book at you

@joshuawiener5003

Жыл бұрын

That honestly sounds like the case. FromSoft is not one to pull punches on horrific lore and imagery. For example, there is the omen bairn, which depicts an omen baby with all their horns removed in a grotesque fashion. Having the scholars whisper amongst themselves would probably create too much chaos and make it harder to locate the channeling scholar. Though honestly, the first phase is kinda too easy and I think maybe that would have been something good to add some difficulty. Regardless, it is of no consequence.

@The_pitbull536

Жыл бұрын

@@joshuawiener5003 also Dung eater ripping the spine out of a giant and then using it as a sword

@SolaScientia

Жыл бұрын

@@joshuawiener5003 The only gruesome thing that I know they cut from a game was in the fight against Oceiros in Dark Souls 3. He was meant to be holding his child, Ocelotte, and he still cradles something invisible with one arm for about half the fight. Then there is some motion and audio that's basically him consuming the child (the baby cries stop after that point, very tellingly). I think it was determined to be a bit too much even for them. Honestly, both phases were a bit too easy. Yeah, it took me 4 or 5 attempts, but that's still less than some other bosses and even regular enemies. Phase 1 was definitely way too easy, especially once I stopped summoning wolves for it and chased down the gold kids myself. Phase 2 was super easy once I summoned the wolves and then just stayed close to her the whole time since she had no poise at all. I hate fighting mages in FromSoft games, so I'm not complaining much about how easy it ended up being.

@Dyneamaeus

Жыл бұрын

Oh certainly, I mean, that busyness is probably why only the singing scholar throws books as well. Depending on how the camera feels, the sound cues for a chandelier drop or tomb-missile are sometimes the only warning you'll get before they nuke you.

@SolaScientia

Жыл бұрын

@@Dyneamaeus There was a bit of a visual cue for the chandelier drop as well, but in running around hunting down the glowing kids it's easy to miss that as well. Phase 1 is so busy in general that the added voices would have made it worse. Any time I had to go near the chandeliers I was running or rolling as fast as possible and made sure not to linger under them. It was the books and the globes getting yeeted at me that I found the most annoying.

"Can we still be friends if we try? Yes, we can be friends, I'm sure. He'll understand if we just explain" Oh my god 😢😢😢 this actually makes me feel bad for them

@oldcowbb

Жыл бұрын

yes if they stop throwing the damn books

@sixbases6793

Жыл бұрын

@@oldcowbb oh come on, they are not that annoying, they're cute

@yurilopes420

Жыл бұрын

@@sixbases6793 for real, the only time where books are an issue is when you try to dodge one and queen foots throws a whole fucking library at you plus the chandelier

@Dr.HooWho

Жыл бұрын

​@@oldcowbb gotta get knowledge though

@firstya9994

11 ай бұрын

@@sixbases6793 idk if i still wanted to be friends with them after they throw a fckng chandelier at me

This reminds of the fairy children from berserk. Essentially, a child who left her village became a demon and later "liberated" the children from small villages in the area and turned them into fairies. At first they seem fairly innocent, but whenever they "play war" they grab weapons and start killing each other, because once they transform they no longer understand what death is.

@dunewalker3006

Жыл бұрын

came to say that

@dadevi

Жыл бұрын

Yet another reason I'm happy I never read Beserk. That shit is too dark for me.

@SIGNOR-G

Жыл бұрын

@@dadevi you miss the glorious slaughter of demon. Also Guts journey is very interesting. Rarely you see a character change so much and in such a well made fashion.

@OwObotJazz

Жыл бұрын

They do worse things than play war

@alrightalright4585

Жыл бұрын

Berserk is one of, if not, the biggest inspiration for FromSoft games. Miyazaki is a huge fan, so it makes sense for a lot of things to be mirrored from that manga. I really need to get on seriously reading it, only like 10 chapters in so far.

Elden Ring certainly has recurring themes around imperfect replication. Empyreans born from single parent processes that end up with curses, artificially created albinaurics with bad legs, Rennala's children being flawed and tragically short lived, Omens existing, etc. Kinda like maybe the Erdtree's order is super duper flawed and taking the rune of death out is a Gwyn-level sin that's just ruined the entire world

@dadevi

Жыл бұрын

I think the message is that the Gods in all of From Soft's titles are cursed by going against the course of nature in some way. The Gods try to interrupt the natural cycle of their worlds and end up destroying themselves in the process. They're like puppets pretending to be puppetmasters, but they get their strings cut in the end all the same.

@SIGNOR-G

Жыл бұрын

@@dadevi more like puppetts tumbling in their own strings.

@WereScrib

Жыл бұрын

@@dadevi Excuse me, you left out the benevolent force that is the Frenzied Flame. If time and existence itself is undone, there is no flawed order! \o/ True heroes undo time itself.

@nightscout9979

Жыл бұрын

Tons of the curses and maladies are unrelated to the Golden Order. Most things are messed up in Elden Ring, tying into recurring From Software themes of cruel powers that be and the constant threat of degenerating.

@marhawkman303

Жыл бұрын

@@nightscout9979 yeah, one of my readings of the lore of Elden ring is that it's more like the "Lands Between" are part of a battle between eldritch beings we never even see in-game. the Golden Order is just one of them.

When I fought Rennala I was too busy trying not to die to really notice how deeply disturbing her first phase is... and honestly I'm very glad that I was able to avoid this emotional burden.

@loonylunaticmaxhammer3401

Жыл бұрын

gay

@pffpffovich2398

Жыл бұрын

Her first phase is the easiest thing there is wdym

@cromulom2223

Жыл бұрын

How tf you had to try to avoid dying in rennala

@-huracan-8444

Жыл бұрын

gay

@natpat4094

Жыл бұрын

the whole story is already an emotional burden tho 💀 and the first phase is easy 😭

I like how often Zullie and other creators show off a From Software concept that "was almost a lot worse/more horrible/creepier" etc. Like they always seem to come up with horrifying ideas, start to implement them, then rein themselves in. Kinda wish they'd commit to it for once.

@VelvetVexations

Жыл бұрын

We nearly got Oceiros doing the "puny God" Avengers routine with an infant. Have to imagine there's a universe out there where they left that in and it perhaps became the new GTA in terms of controversy, or maybe video game violence of all kind has simply lost it's shock three games into modern Mortal Kombat.

@Crow_Mauler_

Жыл бұрын

Well, they certainly committed with bloodborne.

@vergulyanets

Жыл бұрын

I listened to that cut audio with Oceiros, really scary stuff.

@dontbother9683

Жыл бұрын

They do commit to it, you just don't know it beacuse they actually did it

@dadevi

Жыл бұрын

When it comes to children, the disabled, or child-like characters in video games, creators have learned to tow the line or risk being banned in certain countries. Australia, the UK and the US are especially tough on stuff like that, and it's not worth it to make a several different versions of the same boss battles for different gaming markets.

It occurs to me that if the Tarnished dies in this fight, it would actually make this one of the few fights that (outside of game mechanics) would *permanently* end their journey. It doesn't matter if you can't be killed permanently if you've been reborn imperfectly and lost all of your memories.

@TheDoomsdayzoner

Жыл бұрын

Thankfully being tarnished means "no rebirth", apparently.

@vergulyanets

Жыл бұрын

Would be cool to be summoned by Renala as a aggressive defender like in the Church in DS3 DLC Ringed City or DS2 Mirror Knight

@FirstKingPotato

Жыл бұрын

@@TheDoomsdayzoner You probably can be, even as a Tarnished. The great rune of the unborn perfects rebirth, implying that you could be reborn imperfectly if you didn't beat Rennala and get it.

@leyrua

Жыл бұрын

@@vergulyanets -but your movement speed is capped extremely low (crawling speed only), and you can only attack by throwing furniture and books at people. 😆

@gyrozeppeli00

Жыл бұрын

I don't think there's any lore reason for why you can revive indefinitely, unlike Dark Souls, at least that's what I'm getting from the game. When every single tarnished in the game dies, they don't comeback. Npcs you invade during the Volcano Manor questline die and you get their loot, the tarnisheds who went to Stormveil castle with Roderika to be grafted into the scion died, sir Gideon Offnir THE ALL KNOWING! didn't know my double katana bleed mimic summon was coming to solo him and I don't see his ass crawling back from the grave either. And I don't think the blessing of the grace helps, considering Godfrey, the motherfucking first Elden Lord also has his own grace, and it was pointing towards me during the cutscene, he dies and permanently as well. This is just personal observation but I think death means something in this world and canonically our character never dies.

The cut dialogue reminds me of the children who were turned into insect fairies in Berserk. Specifically the part where they played war games, ripping each other to shreds. Some of them even did "adult attacks" on each other.

@starpegasusgamer8561

Жыл бұрын

Kinda fucked. But then again, most of Berserk is fucked to its core

@sturmfall1050

Жыл бұрын

I mean, Miyazaki loves Berserk so it's not a huge stretch to think that was at least some of the inspiration.

@halcionjoy7

Жыл бұрын

@@sturmfall1050 They even have a mother figure in the apostle who transformed them. Now that I think of it, they also undergo rebirth in eggs. They even have some gruesome illustrations of eggs getting split open with half-liquefied children inside.

@SIGNOR-G

Жыл бұрын

I thought the exact same thing. Luckily here its just a problem of communication instead of "playing adult games". Last time didnt end very well.

@makenaiyomi1083

Жыл бұрын

This was pretty though to read. Seeing Guts split open these eggs and be covered with blood and whatnot from these unborn....

Time for Zullie, therefore time for lore!

@united_games

Жыл бұрын

invisible path ahead

@Voc_spooksauce

Жыл бұрын

Praise the Witch! Also, time for liking

@zodiacjun1723

Жыл бұрын

Behold witch

@cranapple3367

Жыл бұрын

Try greatsword, then try watching.

@JB-xl2jc

Жыл бұрын

Could this be a amazing something?

I hope Rennala comes back for DLC in some way as an ally or enemy. She is the only one left besides egg boy so it would be nice for her to still be around.

@SIGNOR-G

Жыл бұрын

We all wish to see *eggboy* again. Maybe reborn as *eggman.*

@warden8508

Жыл бұрын

Who’s egg boy?

@EnterNameToNoAvail

Жыл бұрын

@@warden8508 Miquella

@deejorno

Жыл бұрын

many doors!

@ValbrandrLeonhardt

Жыл бұрын

True, but Rennala also isn't a Demigod at all if it remember correctly? Only her children were, and one of them was Empyrean. Miquella will definitely be back. I'm hoping it'll be a Bloodborne style, enter Miquellas dream, which is likely turned Nightmare thanks to Mohgs cursed blood and possible influence by the Formless Mother.

If you just whack the scholars instead of killing them, the ones close to Renalla may get the orb again making phase 1 slightly (not much) faster.

One more thing that lends itself to their nonchalant attitude towards death, even in the final version of the game is that they have friendly fire (at least that I remember) on. They can take each other out with their attacks, particularly the one attack where one of them levitates a bunch of stuff to drop onto you.

@stevenn1940

Жыл бұрын

Yep I particularly remember that with the chandelier attack

@JohnSmith-kt3yy

Жыл бұрын

Isnt death inconsequencial for everyone in the land between? I thought nobody really died there for centuries because of the removal of the death rune?

I also think the fact that all of their eyes are jaundiced interesting. It seems like the rebirth affects more than their memory, and many of them are pale and sickly. Great video, zullie!

@JustinL614

Жыл бұрын

Jaundice will develop in most infants from lack of sunlight. The scholars are always kept indoors so it makes dense they would design them with sunlight deprived features.

@DeathnoteBB

Жыл бұрын

It would make sense as the video says they come back frailer, too

Remainds me of how they removed the death screams of Ocelotte from Dark Souls 3 because... they were REALLY disturbing

@azadalamiq

Жыл бұрын

the death screams are still there, you hear the crying through out the fight, it was the body that was removed. ya just rewatched the fight crying is there through out after the poor thing gets smashed... hated this fight.

Really digging the action shots of late. The little reconstructions as well, like 1:39 and such.

They may have wrote it off as a lost cause because who on earth would even notice this incredibly soft-spoken dialogue in the middle of a big boss fight with orchestral music, fire, and books coming at you from every angle.

People think they're creepy but I rather enjoyed them though the lore is sad. What really made me feel bad was the fact they are all gone after you defeat Rennala.

@doctorhealsgood5456

Жыл бұрын

Where did they go? Did they die for real? Rennala is still there so she could still rebirth them. She rebirths you no problem (you have the privilege of the rune of the unborn) and she can do it with boc too... even if it doesn't end up that well for obvious reasons.

@dragar0th

Жыл бұрын

They're just down for their naps, don't worry

@watchfulwanderer6443

Жыл бұрын

@@doctorhealsgood5456 She no longer has the Rune of the Unborn. It seems to allow for perfect rebirth when held by a person, or imperfect rebirth when held in the egg.

@Knight_Of_Eleum_Loyce

Жыл бұрын

they're*

@funnygaming2672

Жыл бұрын

@@watchfulwanderer6443 so if she had the rune of the unborn, she could reborn Miquella has perfect?

What I find most interesting, is the image at 0:44 the close up on the face allows a good view at the eyes. Of which the irises are half blue and half gold. Likely a reference to being a child of Rennala (Blue) and Radagon (Gold). It also brings to mind another character who has a golden and blue eyes... Melina. I wonder if there's any connection there?

@marybethsanford3541

Жыл бұрын

What i just noticed is that the scholar at .44 seems to also be cross eyed.

@watchfulwanderer6443

Жыл бұрын

Melina's blue eye isn't the same shade of blue, and she has one eye each, rather than two colors in each eye. Hers is more likely a Destined Death thing.

@Zyk0th

Ай бұрын

It's the grace of gold. So many characters have gold in their irises, even Omen. Only the Tarnished don't, that's where the term "tarnished" came from.

Does that mean I've been killing innocent children who just wanted to play with me instead of imperfect deformations produced by some crazy sorceress?😭😭😭

I think the initial arrival dialogue they have and then the fight we have today with some extra giggles and whatnot would strike a good balance without it overwhelming the singing target.

If I had to make a guess as to why this was removed it's because up to four people running around killing them and causing attacks would quickly become an audio nightmare with all their responses

Them not valuing death and playfully trying to kill you reminds me of the elf kids from berserk’s lost children arc

I was waiting for it, thanks!!!

I don't think this is a very popular opinion, but Rennala's fight is one of my favorites. I'm happy to see this added level of depth to the fight, even though it was removed.

@siegwardinspirit

Жыл бұрын

It's an okay fight, but the atmosphere is really good!

@watchfulwanderer6443

Жыл бұрын

It's a good fight. I wish it was an end-game fight though, so we could see the real power that Rennala has, rather than the illusion of Rennala conjured by Ranni, who has not seen actual Rennala fight (actual Rennala almost certainly used a sword, and possibly armor as well, and definitely used actual Carian spells). The closest we have to an end-game archmage fight is Gideon.

This just makes it all the more heartfelt,if you truly think about it,all the juvenile scholars are just poor attempts at recreating a body for ranni,even looking at the second phase when ranni’s voice echoes in defense of her mother ( didn’t know how to word it otherwise),this is just rennala’s attempt at bringing ranni back in the flesh.

@nightscout9979

Жыл бұрын

Ranni is a redhead, so these juvenile scholars are probably just closer to clones of Rennala. They even have the same hair color and hair style.

Honestly I’ve never even used the audio to figure out which one to attack, I always just look for the glowing one lol. To me the lullaby just sounds like it’s coming from all of them in the chaos of the fight.

Its creepy and rather heart breaking at the same time.

I was hoping you would show more of the scholars' model. With how they crawl on the ground and stated imperfect rebirth I'm wondering if their bodies are malformed as well, or if their legs are fading similar to the Albinaurics.

Reminds me of Nashandra in DS2, initially you thought they were peaceful people but behind the curtains, they actually perform some morbid stuff regardless if they're considered morally evil or not.

@nightscout9979

Жыл бұрын

From the moment you can first learn that Nashandra exists, you can learn that she is responsible for messed up vibes and curses. She doesn't bother to hide being full of disdain and greed either.

@watchfulwanderer6443

Жыл бұрын

Nashandra is really ominous from the first point you meet her, and her painting literally curses you. Also, she's Vendrick's queen, there's about a zero percent chance of her being a peaceful person. With Rennala, as well, you likely either heard from Miriel that she's doing something weird, or you didn't hear about her except for Gideon saying to go and take her rune. I don't see anything in the game that implies that Rennala will be at all friendly to you, and her first impression is "crazy floating women surrounded by creepy giggling floor mages". I realized she was more peaceful after I fought her, not before.

I'm kinda sad that they cut out a lot of the darker elements in the series. Stuff like this, Oceiros's brutal baby mauling and other such things. Understandably they want to remove things that would really draw the ratings to be less favorable, but man, this would've been super creepy. I wonder why they cut this one out

@OnAChairSitting

Жыл бұрын

If I'm not mistaken, I think the smashing and squelching sounds can still be heard if you listen closely, though everything else was cut.

@lightningrose3654

Жыл бұрын

Audio cues are important in this fight It would be confusing if every scholar toddler was to talk when we are listening for the scholar toddlers creepy lullaby.

@burneraccounthandle

Жыл бұрын

@@lightningrose3654 the massive golden aura isn't enough of an indicator for you?

@arrakaarkana6281

Жыл бұрын

The one with the aura is also the only one that throws books. It's pretty easy to find them.

@unclegoose3864

Жыл бұрын

This 100%, they claim to use berserk at inspiration but these souls games are really just neutered versions of it.

I`d love to see this restored, honestly. The eeriness behind it feels like having a whole different aspect to the first phase.

I actually can’t believe this dialogue was cut. It adds such an insane amount of lore and context and depth to an otherwise less than amazing boss fight

This is easily one of my favorite videos of yours. The ambience of Rennala's library while hearing this lore was a really interesting, surreal, spooky and sad experience (all at the same time). That lullaby is also really enchanting (but maybe it shouldn't be, lol).

Its strange how Zullies videos seem to have their own format and this format can fit the variety of themes that Soulsborne games have, happy, creepy playful etc. Its perfectly balanced in the information it gives and the stylistic way in which it gives it. Unique on youtube from what ive seen.

Thank you for your work Zullie! Despite some of the content being removed for the sake of anything between gameplay and storytelling reasons, your videos never fail to awaken imagination and help experience all the cut content as if it's been in the game all along. I am a big fan of the format of your videos and will continue to follow your efforts at elevating all of the subtle intricacies of FromSoft's games to our attention. I wish you the most engaged fanbase a youtuber can ask for.

Fromsoft loves to record intriguing lore-heavy dialogue only to cut them out for seemingly no reason

@soulsatzero3788

Жыл бұрын

the reason is to make things less on the nose. the games always have much more direct dialogues and then they start cutting things. sometimes because they don't fit into the lore anymore and other times to simply make things more vague.

@Mekose

Жыл бұрын

I almost feel like they purposefully leave all these breadcrumbs and files because they know the data-mining and lore community is so hungry. They could have easily deleted these files to save space; but they opted to keep them in because the community loves it and makes videos for years about the souls games.

@soulsatzero3788

Жыл бұрын

@@Mekose But a problem with that is that it shows that they are constantly changing things. I have no issue with that because i mostly like how things end up in the final game. But people keep complaining about how this or that questline should have been kept or how a different turn of events would have been so much cooler etc. I don't think that people at From Software are really happy about that. So i assume that these leftovers are just difficult to avoid, even though i personally don't know why.

Thanks for showing us all of these videos. I played through ER twice and that was it. But that was a slow one and half month playthrough. Imo, its always best to snail crawl your 1st playthrough of any game that you've never played.

You and thatpunchkid always post in time for me to watch y'all during lunch breaks and it's perfect

i’d love to see a recreation of these dialogues in an actual boss fight to see what it would have been like! either way keep up the amazing videos. very interesting as always ❤

This boss just keeps getting more and more eerie

I just wanna let you know I watch every single one of your videos. Love your content, keep it comin :)

love these videos more than i can put to words, the Lands Between is filled with such unseen/unknown tragedy and Zullie brings them to light which is incredible ❤

Man for once I think it's really a shame they decided to remove this particular idea from the game, whatever the reason was. It'd have made the fight even more striking and memorable.

I have this conspiracy about these guys that starts with Turtle Pope. Judging from his dialogue, we know that Radagon left Rennala to become second Elden Lord after his union with Queen Marika but before he left, he bequeathed the Amber Egg that she is found cradling when we meet her in-game. *puts on tin foil hat* He states she was left heartbroken because of his departure, but what if there is more to the story? What if he left her the egg so that she would be bewitched by it? Let’s look at some details on the Amber egg: We are given dialogue from Gideon that the egg contains a Great Rune, and further progression into the game reveals it to be the The Rune of the Unborn. The rune is not revealed to be associated with any god in particular, much like the Rune of Death, but there are some interesting implications on it. Mohgs Great rune reads - “Mohg and Morgott are twin brothers, and their Great Runes are naturally similar.” Judging from that item description, the Rune with the most similarity to it is Malenia’s, who was Miquella’s twin. If this egg does contain the Great Rune of Miquella, possibly his soul too, then an explanation for the shape of the rune could be his curse - the “eternal childhood” - and possibly why the juveniles are imperfected, stuck as children and sing about sleep. This brings me to my theory. Rennala is overly attached to it, calling it her little “culver”. We know from the Bewitching Branch that Miquella had the ability to compel love and affection and if we look close, we can see traces of it inside the egg, particularly the white buds before they hatch. We know anything that’s mixed with the blood or essence of Miquella tends to stay in a premature “infant” form, hence the Haligtree being stuck as a baby version of the Erdtree and the buds inside the egg.

@nightscout9979

Жыл бұрын

The main problem with this is that Miquella didn't exist yet. Gideon also says that Miquella claimed a Great Rune during the Shattering, but later discarded it. Rennala had the Great Rune of the Unborn long before the Elden Ring was shattered. That said, I agree that Radagon likely had nefarious purposes when he left Rennala the Amber Egg.

@puzzleheaded6195

Жыл бұрын

@@nightscout9979 There’s nothing that definitely proves that but there is evidence to the contrary Miquellan Straight Sword - Sword forged by servants of Miquella of the Haligtree, with a design modeled after those carried by Carian knights. Instead of glintstone however, amber from the Haligtree is embedded in the blade. A sumptuous piece, yet it has never been offered to any knight - an ill-starred sword with no master. Amber medallions - A medallion with crimson amber inlaid. Boosts maximum HP. The Erdtree's old sap becomes amber, treasured as the most precious of jewels in the age of Godfrey, the first Elden Lord. A primordial life energy resides inside.

@azadalamiq

Жыл бұрын

@@puzzleheaded6195 he wasn't born yet. >.>;; rad fought a war.. fell in love and married ren after a while left ren, to be the second hubby to mirika who then birth the twins. most likely rad since the knights posed a good threat, he took their gear as inspiration and had servants forge gear of similar nature. not unheard of.

@puzzleheaded6195

Жыл бұрын

@@azadalamiq Miquella grew the Haligtree from his blood and old amber sap from the Erdtree which dropped only during the Age of Godfrey. Read the description of the Amber medallion, miquellan straight sword, and the blessed dew talisman if you want to connect the dots. Also, Radagon is hinted to hail from the Giants which predate even the Erdtree(Giants Red Braid, Sword of Milos).

@nightscout9979

Жыл бұрын

@@puzzleheaded6195 All that means is that Miquella was inspired by Carian swords, which isn't unique to him -- Morgott's energy sword is fashioned after a Carian blade too, complete with the blue glintstone. The amber medallions show that amber was valuable even in Godfrey's age, AKA before Godfrey was banished and thus before Miquella was ever born.

i cant get over this video man , i love it

Thank you for posting more content Zullie.

I can see why they'd do this. The fight's already quite hectic and chaotic without all that extra noise. And uh...I don't think I'd wanna fight them if they said this stuff, yeah :c

I really like the unused spoken lines for the Juvenile scholars, but I still feel really bad for having to attack them. The lines would just make me feel guilty the entire game.💔 In the end, happy Renala is kept alive; taking their mother away would be horrid.

I appreciate the crossed eyes due to unformed nasal bridges. Very accurate to a newborn

This is so cool! I love it when games make me feel bad for killing something, like i’ve done something wrong. Makes the weight of your actions feel heavier

I never really thought about these "kids" (adults turned into children?). I just went "Oh uh... Cathedral of the Deep 2.0?" and went to smashing everything until I figured out the right way of doing the fight. I was like Smough at a buffet.

Creepy immortal juvenile singing man-child scholar babies aside, I'd like to point out how much Zullie's videos have improved over time! Obviously the information was always horrif- I mean fascinating but the quality of the videos themselves are fantastic, we're always looking forward to the next little factoid that promises to disturb and enthrall us

Phwoar! This one would have been super creepy to play through. So glad we got to see it. Thanks Zullie!

These are one of my favorite npcs thank you SO MUCG ❤

It's hard for me to imagine this working even in the best of circumstances where there is no audio cue. Too much dialogue to be going on through the whole fight. They have opening lines, then lines when you first attack them, then lines to justify their attacking back, and then lines for different attacks? It's just a lot.

@danlorett2184

Жыл бұрын

Add on that there's literally like 15 of them or something, that's way too many dialogue lines for that many characters. Plus it would totally conflict with the one channelling the shield singing.

@Loremaster85

Жыл бұрын

@@danlorett2184 Honestly, losing the singing wouldn't be all that bad since there's a giant glowing aura around them. Also, I may be in a minority here, but I never noticed the singing until this video, I always just looked for the aura to find 'em.

@danlorett2184

Жыл бұрын

@@Loremaster85 Yeah I blast music when I play so I didn't use the sound cues either. Still sounds like having 10+ NPCs all with lines for when they do stuff in the middle of a fight would be pretty spammy tho.

@LordSturm777

Жыл бұрын

@@danlorett2184 in the video when the voice lines are played it's like "all of them" are talking at once, so I figure it would be dialogue that just progressively plays as the fight goes on, like any other boss monologue

Don't know whether to feel bad or not for the scholars. On a side note, never realized how derpy the face was lol

This is GREAT!!

bits of cut content like this always get my gears going on what Elden Ring was originally planned as. I interpret it as a fairly similar game to what we have, but with a larger emphasis on interacting with the Big Bosses of Elden ring as faction leaders instead.

I had read a theory that the children are clones of what Ranni’s original body looked like.

@dadevi

Жыл бұрын

That would make sense. Not only did Radagon leave her, but Ranni's body is dead. I’m sure Ranni's death is what really pushed Rennala over the edge considering she's concerned with making more children.

@yellowmice4985

Жыл бұрын

She had red hair. You can see their remains on her dead body Maybe they are clones of Rennala? Like some shitty parthenogenesis

oh that's interesting. even though i think i like it without much more. the singing is much more eerie than them saying spooky children things.

Reminds me of the elf children in berserk, playing 'adult games' and being born in eggs, I think there's a connection there

Best Elden Ring channel ever!

Sometimes I feel that they should try and include the cut content

@TheSilentSoprano1

Жыл бұрын

lol elden ring is filled with old games cut content, I'm sure at some point some of elden rings cut content will be used.

@rafsandomierz5313

Жыл бұрын

If you would add all cut content there would be a lot of things to fix with lore and gameplay: 1. Inconsistent lore would make an mess there is an reason certain things were cut it's just another part of development 2. Lore would explain too much to the player there wouldn't be too much things to explore later. 3.Gameplay reasons for example fight with Rennala would be too loud for the player which would make the player to adjust volume only for specific fight.

A reason for the cut was maybe that it would have been a problem for the non english speaking audience to read the subtitles during the fight. I may be wrong because we have seen speaking bosses before, but still with shorter texts

@Squiggums799

Жыл бұрын

We've never had a Fromsoft boss with enough spoken dialogue in their fight to be anything more than fluff, so yeah. All of their games' dialogues (except Sekiro) are also exclusively in English.

@IDECIDETHETRUTH

Жыл бұрын

@@Squiggums799 I think Bloodborne has Japanese dialogue as well if you toggle the settings.

@Squiggums799

Жыл бұрын

Oh really? That's awesome if so. Too bad there's no PC port yet :(

As always... Interesting and Good stuff.

The power of rebirth seems to grant her the power to instantly create clothes for them.

Woah, this would have been one of the most human sounding voices we ever got in the series. I wouldn't have minded that, though I can see how it would have conflicted with the edgy and dramatic tone of every other character.

Let's be honest, it probably wasn't cut for unnerving the player, since from soft has done some pretty unnerving stuff. It probably cluttered the noise of the fight too much and made it to difficult to hear the lullaby sound cue of the scholar with the aura.

@akoyash9964

Жыл бұрын

maybe players could use their eyes instead?

Really cool idea that I wish we'd gotten in some form. Maybe as ambient dialogue instead of ones from each individual sweeting. Like you enter the boss room and get a couple samples of them being curious, then a couple scattered attack and injury ones as the fight commences.

I had no idea the scholar channeling was the one signing. I have taken that fight every time just frantically looking around the arena

Do they have legs? I wonder if they are disfigured under their robes

@ZullietheWitch

Жыл бұрын

Their animation skeleton has leg bones, but they don't have legs on their model itself.

Phase One of Rennala's battle never left that much of an impression on me. But by God had they actually used this dialogue in the boss battle I would have been genuinely freaked. Damn that sucks, since I love moments just like that in games or any media that can manage that.

No other section of Elden Ring gave me chills like this without jump scares. Loved this fight.

Now I’m imagining the DLC being introduced by Renala like it’s a bedtime story

As if these things weren't already creepy enough. The whole Rennala thing is really unsettling. What's worse is that it's implied that Rennala, despite being some kind of mother figure to them during their endless cycles, has apparently "forgotten" one of the children. Grimrukh on Twitter mentions that "there is one sweeting in the back corner of the Library who will NEVER be chosen to protect Rennala's golden barrier. She has ID 14000830, but due to an event script typo, will never be able to serve her Queen." Of course, this could just be written off as some minor oversight, but with how much hidden depth there is in FromSoft games, I imagine that there may have been more to that story. Does Rennala not choose them to protect them because she favors that scholar? Or is it that Rennala is somehow punishing them by deeming them unfit to protect her because of some actions that they committed before their rebirth? A lot of people see Rennala as some intermediary aloof figure bound to serve the cycle of rebirth due to the rune that she bears, but I think she's way more sinister and manipulative than we get to see. Her dulcet tones are likely meant to make people feel comfortable and lower their guard so that she can gain their trust to fuel the cycle at the academy.

@SIGNOR-G

Жыл бұрын

I believe that she might have been nice before Radagon left her but after shes just a bitter lunatic.

@riccardocirielli

Жыл бұрын

you are reading way too much into it. it was just an oversight and Rennala is just completely crazy. she doesn't have any malicious intent

@jik9693

Жыл бұрын

Most sane elden ring player

@Facepalm9

Жыл бұрын

@@riccardocirielli This channel is literally all about "reading way too much into it." I see you're new here, so be sure to subscribe.

@riccardocirielli

Жыл бұрын

@@Facepalm9 on the contrary, I have seen many of her videos. She actually discovers some interesting things and her assunptions are always very calculated and based at least partially on facts about the game. Yours is just rumbling

Absolutely loving how half of the game lore is hidden in item descriptions and implied through character dialogue, and the other half is hidden in files that the devs could have removed but chose to keep

Man this is extremely creepy, excellent find Zullie!

I still want to rest in Rennala's umbra.

I never played this game, but every time I see something from the game it feels so out of this world and mystical.

I'd love a more flesh out fight where they excitedly call out attacks in exchange for them being unavoidable without knowledge of the attack. To be forced to listen closely as they spoil the nature of their assault, sounds terrifying.

Elden ring never ceases to unnerve me

You really nailed the Thumbnail this time

I wish they'd left that in. So creepy and sad, a feeling that was common in Souls but felt less presence in ER.

Still find it funny they can throw books at you with enough force to crush the bones of a guy in full heavy steel armor.

"If we're turned to stone, will we be born again?" this one strikes me most

This is so absolutely horrifying, and I want it back immediately

I found the cutscene pretty interesting as well as the fight. Felt to me like a lore piece for the first phase rather than an engaging battle. Enjoyed learning about them.

"Welcome one-and-all-acaust to Child Slaughterfest 2022!"- Max0r

The dialogue is amazing.

I wish they'd kept this. It's haunting.

"Oh geez, the book I borrowed from the library is three months past due, I hope I can just return it without being turned into a creepy child."

"I can do no wrong, for I do not know what it is."

We need an upload every other day please

I kind of wish they stuck around after you beat rennala, it would be really interesting to have like a nursery with some unique interactions