So! I did say I wana do a Mohg video but unsure on that cause Smoughtowns video is so comprehensive. I am v interested in the Regal Ancestor cause I love that fight and it would have some level of connection to old life/Crucible. And lastly, there is likely somethingg more to the Omen considering the Dung Eater, his ending, and his Omenness. So there is likely an aspect of the Omen curse I missed in this video. There have already been some comments, but if you have any thoughts on what this extra aspect of the Omen (curse) might be, feel free to leave a comment about it! Again, thanks for watching

@SmoughTown

2 жыл бұрын

Hey bro great video. A good few points I hadn’t considered so thank you for changing my mind! Whatever you do next, consider me hooked

@zombiehippo9477

2 жыл бұрын

You did a great job at explaining the lore. Vaatividyia got some competition lol

@Forgelock3d

2 жыл бұрын

Damn u hit him with the plug, that's very respectable, good content man glad your willing to not repeat what other YT's make so viewers don't have to sift through as much repeated content

@MostlyNOOB

2 жыл бұрын

Make vids on the stuff your interested in, that'll make better videos

@johndalton4559

2 жыл бұрын

@@SmoughTown smough mad and mb rata need to team up and do a video series as trio. WOukld eat that up

I was under the impression that Morgott's horns and bulk disappear because it was a curse/blessing upon him from the crucible. If he dies the curse/blessing loses it's effect and vanishes.

@ghoulish6125

2 жыл бұрын

This is essentially what I read as well. Though the post I read said that cursed blood leaves you upon death, turning you instantly normal. Which.....well that's fucking sad.

@The.Nasty.

2 жыл бұрын

But that doesn’t happen for the other Omen or the Misbegotten?

@dellonerf3140

2 жыл бұрын

@@The.Nasty. that may be because the curse/blessing DOESNT disappear for omen at all. Only happens to Morgott and i think this might be because the curse was lifted by the greater will at the moment of his death as his soul will return to the erdtree. he protected the erdtree for a very long time so this might be a last last gift from the greater will. he is the grace given after all.

@The.Nasty.

2 жыл бұрын

@@dellonerf3140 hey that’s not a terrible theory at all, pretty plausible actually, wish there was some hard info in-game about it but it’s a From game so… what’re ya gonna do?

@ketchard

Жыл бұрын

I don’t think that’s the case because the curse disappeared before morgott dies

Thinking back, the Leonine Misbegotten and Crucible Knight boss fight actually makes more sense now, as they're both powerful warriors who have been touched by the power of the Crucible.

@hippittyhopp2379

2 жыл бұрын

Still an utterly lazy and terrible match

@thekinginyellow7777

2 жыл бұрын

@@hippittyhopp2379 doubtlessly an unbalanced and boring fight, but it makes more sense now lorewise

@dillongage

Жыл бұрын

Crucible Knights can be pretty annoying depending on your build.

@csnoot

Жыл бұрын

@@dillongage 10x easier when parrying though

@TeamDangerSquad

Жыл бұрын

That fight is fun though…

Let's remember the scientific definition of the word Crucible, rather than the literary one. A Crucible is a dish or vessel used for smelting things together at extremely high temperatures. In other words, it's a container for intense heat and flame.

@travisadams6279

2 жыл бұрын

"Crucible" or a ancient and lore heavy place involving fire and "smelting" has been interpreted in these games as always having to do with the creation of life. Even in this game, with all the aspects of the crucible involving certain traits like wings, scales and other body parts on living beings, and possibly life itself.

@heisenberg1621

2 жыл бұрын

*PLIN PLIN PLON*

@homelessrobot

2 жыл бұрын

a crucible is a dish or vessel used for holding or collecting molten metal while its being heated. Whether you are 'smelting' (which is purification of ore into metal), re-melting, or alloying a new metal doesn't matter. This isn't a scientific definition either. It's the metallurgical one. Metallurgy predates science by most of human history, give or take a few millennia. The word is used to signify creation within the metallurgical motif of elden ring; gold, tarnish, etc.

@travisadams6279

2 жыл бұрын

@@homelessrobot I agree with the metallurgical definition your talking about. But the game does connect the "crucible" to life. And many of the crucible related items, talismans and descriptions talk about life. Also, the demi-humans and other creatures are a mix of body parts, wings and scales, claws and talons, sometimes tails. The girl by the three fingers talks about all life coming from the great "one". And there is a lot of evidence that the Great Tree sprouted from this "crucible".

@homelessrobot

2 жыл бұрын

@@travisadams6279 When I say creation, I mean creation in the biblical sense; creation of the universe maybe (this is also questionable biblically) but specifically creation of people and other living things. So i am not arguing against a connection to life.

I really wanna thank you for godrick & morgott's lore. ur method of storytelling is really relaxing.

@MadLuigi

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much for the kind comment! Happy to hear its relaxin

I like to think that one of the main reasons Godfrey was banished was because he greatly disagreed with Merika’s decision to banish his twin children. It’s clear by his cutscene that he loved Morgott despite his deformity, or at least felt bad that he was killed. So Merika banished him for his insubordination.

@deadfurydbf9647

6 ай бұрын

'MERIKA FUGG YEA

@shirokun002

2 ай бұрын

I totally agree, also it would make sense for the "history books" to give the whole he lost his light after defeating his last foe thing so he was banished like that makes no sense now that I think about it. Why get rid of your greatest warrior and consort because of that. Also it's not like they can say Godfrey wanted to save his twin sons because what twin sons Marika had twins what happened to them they were omens but she's supposed to be perfect a god how could she have cursed children. So they gave us the whole tarnished banishment thing to keep the twins secret.

MadLuigi, the all-knowing. But seriously, your Elden Ring lore videos are the best I've ever seen. I got really emotional in the one about Morgott. I'd really like to see your opinions on the Dung Eater as he ties in with the Omens. I get the impression he's a human who was abandoned in the sewers and raised by the Omens, sympathizing with them and developing a cruel hatred for the Golden Order. I even think he doesn't really eat dung, that this title was given as a way of making fun of him for living in the sewer, which must have made him even angrier. And I would also find it interesting to hear your opinion on the fact that Greater Will revives tarnisheds like Dung Eater and Fia. To me, this shows the Greater Will's desperation to recover any order, even one as bad as of the Dung Eater. Like it or not, these tarnisheds are powerful and would be candidates to reclaim the Order, even a twisted one.

I feel like this game still includes a series of cycles like DS as a theme, and that the lands between have gone through a super fast version of evolution thanks to the crucible/will/erdtree. That’s why we have so many Demi humans, beastmen, omens, etc. When life comes through the erdtree sometimes it gets corrupted or isn’t as refined and you get omens, mistbegotten, etc. But the process has been refined by the erdtree so most new life is refined/human like

The connection between Godfrey and the Crucible knights is interesting. Godfrey’s transformation into Hoarah Loux is presented as a (partial) reversion from civilisation back into bestiality. Godfrey fights you first as a man with a beast on his shoulder. The beast and the man are separate. But pushed to his limits, the man kills the beast as something separate, becoming something much closer to a beast himself. The crucible knights do something similar in their second phase, drawing on latent bestial powers and energies when pushed to their limits. All this points to the Golden Order as symbolic of something like civilisation - a theme very dear to Fromsoft over the years - and the Primordial Crucible as that from which civilisation emerged. Civilisation can be defined as man killing the beast within him. But the beast never truly dies: the crucible is always a latent presence. Indeed, civilisation is a development out of undifferentiated bestiality, in the same way we’re told the Erdtree is a development of the Crucible. But isn’t it interesting & ironic that the ultimate symbol and guarantor of the golden order - the Elden Ring - also turns out to have its origins in a Beast? The game seems to raise the question: is civilisation just another kind of bestiality - and as such, is it really worth saving?

Thank you for covering the Omen, I've always felt a strong connection with those poor people, and it's heartbreaking. But one thing I'd like to say, The Frenzied Flame, in my opinion, is not "melting everything into one"... It's Genocide, Mass Extinction. The Crucible may have been a primordial form of life where we are all connected on some level... but I find it unwise to conflate the Crucible with that Yellow Nuclear Holocaust. Shabriri is a liar, his poetic ramblings merely tempting falsehoods. Extinction is not Primordial Life.

@muhammadedwards8425

Жыл бұрын

I'm pretty sure that the One Great was the Greater Will. Godfrey and Godwyn both allied with Crucible forces. Marika banished Godfrey with his army, the Crucible Knights most likely stayed with Godwyn. That was when the Crucible energy was reviled, when Radagon came to power. Radagon was Order, the Golden Order was his and Marika's invention. The Rune of destined death being locked away and replacing Godfrey with Radagon, who was Order, kicked of the start of the Golden Order. This was likely the time that the Elden rune changed from Farum Azula Rune to Golden Order Rune. The frenzied flame was not noted as a threat before that, so this change of Rune might have created the madness of the three fingers. Madness from the nature of the world changing after the Golden Order's creation

Really enjoy how you talk like a normal person, without 2 second pauses between every word.

I would love to see an embodiment of the Crucbile as a DLC boss down the line

@nexiledflare5070

2 жыл бұрын

Hmmm, tree sentinel with wings and very different weapons lol

@backpug1228

2 жыл бұрын

A fourth Morgott fight 😉

Hey buddy, watching this now! Ready to have my perspective changed. Cheers!

While any lore video is fun, I like ones going over aspects of the setting/ world and its history like this. Seems appropriate for a game about players choosing a path within that world too. I've been wondering about the pre-Erdtree world lately, like how it differs from the "great tree" and the dragonlord and his civilization. While I would be curious to hear thoughts on that stuff, any well thought out stuff like this is fun to watch. Thanks for sharing.

Great work man, the lore in this game just seems to never end, and I cant wait to see where it all goes from here

Another fantastic take and presentation! Happy to hear any and all lore topics, you, Smough, LoreHunter, arlun and Sinclair lore go over. You’re all top notch imo

Best Elden Ring lore channel so far thank you for this video I was curious about the Omen. Would like to see longer videos from you.

There's Ordovis' Greatsword description that reads: "This sword is imbued with an ancient holy essence. Its red tint exemplifies the nature of primordial gold, said to be close in nature to life itself." These references to "Primordial gold" on the weapon of a Crucible Knight, and how this kind of red gold is close to life itself, made me think that the Crucible, since the very beginning, was something made by the Greater Will (and therefore made of gold) and therefore it naturally evolved over time into the Erdtree after it completed its purpose of spreading life to the Lands Between. The way I see it the "Crucible" was likely the thing that created life on Elden Ring's earth, hence the prevalence of animal life in the things touched by it, and I like to imagine it as the crater of some kind of meteorite, maybe the same falling star that came with the Elden Beast a long time ago. The last part isn't described anywhere, it's just how I imagine this thing was before turning into the Erdtree. Since the Crucible was always something made by the Greater Will it makes sense that the Crucible Knights would follow Godfrey as he fought against the early enemies of the Golden Order, and maybe "Grace Given" suddenly makes sense since, back in ancient times, it's possible that the Grace of the Greater Will manifested through the Omen curse. However it seems that after Morgott and Mohg's birth and Godfrey's exile the Crucible became reviled as a form of devolution and regression.

@djdjinn6340

2 жыл бұрын

I like this connection you've made between Primordial Gold and the Crucible, but I think instead of saying that this implies the Crucible was made by the Greater Will because of the word "gold", we might consider that it means the Crucible was a manifestation of "The One Great" - the precursor to both the Greater Will/Frenzied Flame. The Greater Will's 'color' seems to be a neutral gold and the Frenzied Flame's 'color' is bright yellow, so perhaps this 'red-tinted gold' indicates the Crucible/The One Great? (If this color association is correct, we could perhaps even assume that Miquella's "unalloyed gold" that wards off the Outer God of Rot is this same red-tinted gold?) It would tie in better with the idea that the Greater Will seems to shun the Crucible, and that followers of the Greater Will seem to consider signs of the Crucible, once holy, now as bad omens.

@thelionofjudah5318

Жыл бұрын

What about deathblight? That is good and black and has connection with the death birds. I don’t agree black and gold flames and connections with greater will.

@cammyshill3099

Жыл бұрын

@@thelionofjudah5318 Death Blight isn't really golden, it's more of a sick grey-ish, and it usually comes from Godwyn and the creatures he has infected like crabs and the salamanders. The death birds also have that status because they're death aligned as well, but they're likely older creatures.

Man, i love this even before It comes out Im so glad you made this After my suggestion

These are so insightful, please keep them coming

Stumbled upon your channel and now addicted. Thank you for such insight!

I’m 99% sure that the Mohg apparition is made by Morgott! Look at the particles in gives off on its death compared to the particles margitt gives off on the stormveil castle bridge when he teleports in.

@jimjam9387

2 жыл бұрын

Why is it still there after Morgott dies?

@homelessrobot

2 жыл бұрын

@@jimjam9387 For the same reason that model-Ts still exist long after henry ford died.

@lincolnlog5977

2 жыл бұрын

@@jimjam9387 hmmm good question. It also stays after Mohg dies though…

damn i don't know if its a coincidence or i actually got my wish. either way hyped for this next lore video

From watching smoughtowns video on Mohg I feel like the omen curse might be caused by the formless mother in an attempt to gain influence in the lands between. Considering the formless mother interacts/communicates with Mohg through his cursed blood, it seems directly correlated. Also Morgotts blade of cursed blood has the same type of burning bleed effect as the blood Mohg pulls directly out of the formless mother. Its like the omen have the formless mothers blood.

@cbpuzzleworm9616

2 жыл бұрын

I was wondering how the formless mother would tie in to the omen curse specifically. The game always refers to the blood as "cursed" but we don't know if that's hyperbolic/cultural or if it is a literal curse. Perhaps the formless mother represents an aspect of the primal crucible - its flame? Maybe she sees all "cursed" bloodlines as her children if she is related to the primal crucible and the descendants of it. I can't think of any examples except Hewg of a misbegotten with anything god-related going on, though.

@Grimbonez

2 жыл бұрын

its also completely possible the the crucible and formless mother are linked or the same thing. kinda like a gaia idea, like a "mother nature". the formless mother could literally be the planet or something connected to it. or just a life giving outer god who brings life to worlds via a crucible, the same way the greater will sent the elden beast. i think theres too much connecting the omen and the crucible to say they have NOTHING to do with each other, but it is more complex then just "it came from the crucible".

@travisadams6279

2 жыл бұрын

Thats not a bad theory, but the "Omen" ending has nothing to do with fire, the Dung Eater has nothing to do with the formless mother either. In Mohg's boss room you can see the flames around the room, showing what it looks like when the Formless Mother has great sway in a place. But when the Dung Eater/Omen ending happens, there is no such fire or aesthetic, it looks completely different. Nor is there any emphasis on blood or anything else involving Mohg or the fire. If the two royal Omen twins, and omens in general are so directly connected to the Formless Mother, then why doesn't the Dung Eater/Omen curse ending seem to have anything to do with the Formless Mother?

@gogauze

2 жыл бұрын

@@cbpuzzleworm9616 I think this might be a stretch, but hear me out. The Formless Mother is understood to have strong associations with the accursed-by the Golden Order's standards, anyway-blood, wounds, and fire. There's only one instance, that I can think of, where we encounter a forsaken enemy that has strong ties to fire and, coincidentally, deliberately wounds itself in a bloody sacrifice to gain transcendental power: the Fire Giant. I find it interesting that the name of the giant deity is the Fell God. Fell is a word that can mean a few different things, depending on the context, but I think that this might actually be a deliberate double entendre. It could simultaneously mean a great evil, per the Golden Order's propaganda, and having been defeated in the colloquial sense. An item description says that it's believed that Marika slew it. But if it's an actual Outer God, then it follows that it can't directly manifest in the Lands Between or really be destroyed. Instead, I think that it's physical representative, similar to the various fingers, is what was actually killed. And since the Fire Giant is, presumably, able to draw on the Fell God's power during the boss encounter, that implies it's still active. Adding to that idea is that the Fire Giant was cursed by Marika to tend the fire for eternity, since she seems to have realized that the Fell God's fire didn't go away after the representative was slain. So, the actions of the Fire Giant seem to line up with the Formless Mother's themes, but I've got a few more connections that I think are relevant. The Fire Monks seem to have harnessed the heretical power of the Fell God's flame through visions of the future in which we use it to burn the Erdtree with Melina's help. Funnily enough, some of them carry bleed weapons and a sorcery catalyst that scales off of Faith-implying that their sorcerous magic is done via their worship of an Outer God, as opposed to intellectual study-and enhances Thorn spells that consume your own blood/HP to damage and bleed opponents. I'm the end, a fire cult inspired by the source of the flame that eventually burns the Erdtree that also leans into self harming blood magic, combined with the actions of the Fire Giant we see in the game, draws strong enough parallels between the Fell God and the Formless Mother that I think they might actually be the same Outer God. It might be formless, so to speak, because it no longer has a terrestrial representative; so lacking that, it donned a new name in order to slyly work it's way back into influencing the Lands Between. There are a number of other connections that I could mention as well, but I think I've made my case.

@gogauze

2 жыл бұрын

@@cbpuzzleworm9616 oh, and one more thing. You made some connections between the beings touched by the Crucible and the Formless Mother. I'd like to mention that the source of the fire that burns the Erdtree is literally sitting in the middle of a giant crucible; the kind that you'd use in chemistry or metallurgy to heat things to insane temperatures.

Another amazing video. Also its quite relaxing to listen to your videos. Appreciate your work.

Time to call in sick to my job, i have 12 hours of waiting to do!

Retrospective of the DLC, you did a brilliant job getting to the plot points that they developed further.

@MadLuigi

15 күн бұрын

Ha thanks! I'll have to do a retrospective

Having watched Ratatoskr's discussion with Smoughtown I became pretty convinced the that the Crucible is basically evolution. The item descriptions mentions devolution and primordial life both being heavily related to evolution. Crucible can also mean something like a trial. Basically the "Crucible that primordial life sprang from" means the "the selection process all life originates from".

@kasp7674

2 жыл бұрын

Vestiges of the Crucible then literally means "traces of our less evolved ancestors".

@homelessrobot

2 жыл бұрын

@@kasp7674 'vestige' in and of itself can also be thought of as relating to an evolutionary motiff: 'vestigial' organs are 'traces of our (less evolved?) ancestors'. Your appendix, for instance.

This is incredible! Really looking forward to the Mogh video

You and Smoughtown are the best for ER lore.

Yes! This is exactly what I’ve been thinking about. Imo the three fingers represent the remaining portions of the One Great that the other gods were split off of . They recognize the evil the greater will has introduced to the world and wants to make everything one again like it was in the crucible. I think the reason that means “burn everything to the ground” is because of their rage. Also, I think you’re right that the crucible remained alongside the rest of life as it was differentiated. I think the erdtree is the remaining piece of this crucible, except that it has been taken over by the Greater Will and the Order I also see Shabriri as essentially the Three Fingers version of Marika. A powerful being acting as a vessel for his outer god and spreading its message around the world

It might not be related at all but omens and things relating to the mentioned crucible seem to have dragon like features, like horns and scales and wings like that talisman. It could be that things with features similar to dragons like omens were look at as positive, the misbegotten too.

these videos are very enjoyable, please continue making them!

I appreciate the videos on less prominent subjects, substories that have a great deal of depth and help unify the overall lore

Something I find interesting about the Crucible is that it’s described numerous time as being primordial *gold* with Red Tint , to me it hint at the Greater Will having some sort of original connection with the Crucible , since GW is the one who have a heavy connection with Gold . Maybe the Crucible originated from the Elden Beast / Ring wich then maturated into the Erdtree with time .

@Ezekiel_Allium

2 жыл бұрын

There are issues with this, the main thing being that the crucible is the origin of all life, and there were civilizations before the arrival of the elden beast as seen with the death birds and I say its safe to say the crucible knights in an earlier form as well, so it wouldn't really make sense for the crucible to have come from the elden beast.

@mohamedlababidi9042

2 жыл бұрын

@@Ezekiel_Allium yes the crucible is the origin of all life in the land between and there were civilization before the Age of the *Erdtree* , not the Elden beast nothing say that the Elden beast was send just before the start of the erdtree in fact I would say Elden Beast was send very very long ago since the Elden Beast will become the Elden ring wich will create the Crucible/Erdtree , remember that the Crucible is the Erdtree in it’s primordial form . Wich explain how Placidusax was *Elden* Lord during the Age of Dragon . The Erdtree is what the Crucible become after it Matured / Refined . GW probably only send Marika to the land between *after* that the Crucible evolved . Look at the Crucible Knight incantation , they are not only considered part of the Erdtree worship incantation but they also have the same Four intertwined Circle that the Elden Ring / Golden Order / Erdtree have . While also sharing the same Golden color . The Crucible was also said to have been made from Gold , Gold wich is again heavily associated with the Greater Will . Wich also explain why the Crucible knight joined the Erdtree faction and Godfrey Marika in theirs wars against the others power of the land between . Erdtree = The Crucible the first is just the evolution of the laters , Erdtree wasn’t some sort of parasite that took the place of the Crucible like I’ve seen any say without much evidence . Also Hyeta dialogue coming directly from the Frenzied Flamme tie GW with the creation of life and soul , it would make sense that it’s him that created Crucible that originated life in the land between . To me all that indicate that the Greater Will is the one at the origin of the Crucible who evolved into the Erdtree .

@thelionofjudah5318

Жыл бұрын

Deathblight is good and black and has no connections to the greater will. It is against it and omen flame has similar flame to placidusax flame.

Here are 2 things I think can relate to this The seedbed curse says this: Curse grown on a corpse killed and defiled by the Dung Eater. A tender pox afflicted with omen horns. The Dung Eater cultivates the seedbed curse on corpses. By doing so he prevents dead souls returning to the Erdtree, leaving them forever cursed. One of the most loathsome things found in all the Lands Between. And the Dung Eater has this dialogues: Have you ever felt the curse? With your whole being, the pox upon life itself. Feared and despised by all. The Reviled blessing. And I can kill you and defile your corpse. Then the pox will truly be your own And "I've been here long enough. I will kill again. And defile each corpse with care. Just to be sure. That when they're reborn... They'll be cursed. Along with their children, and their children's children, for all time to come... Could we take this also as a reference to cycles within this legacy? Were they defiled in their previous lives or just bad luck for their parents defilement?

Great vid. Would love one on the dark side of the golden order, all the shady stuff they did to the ancestral guys in nokron, the ancestral woods and their trees, for exemple.

The crucible was when the 2 fingers and 3 fingers were one hand. Shabirri's conversation implies the three fingers believe in the greater will's power as their god. As life differentiated the finger split and the greater will l"instructed 3 fingers be locked away. This is why we find the Frenzy Flame Proscription site of grace hallway leads directly to deep root depths and the dead tree guarded by the Crucible knight captain

@homelessrobot

2 жыл бұрын

what about shabiri's dialog suggests that three fingers believe in the greater will's power?

Creatures touched by the Crucible, and therefore receiving its vestiges, bear traits of other species. In a time when all life being uniform is something strived for, it would make sense that they're revered as divine; it's one step closer to all life being the same.

Good work 🥳❤️ I wonder about the horns vanishing

Brother you make amazing videos 🙌🏼 easily the best lore videos I’ve seen

Great vid and narration. Like and subbed.

There's an interesting thing in the description of the unobtainable tool, Miranda's Prayer: "This statuette depicts a flower that preys on humans, posed in prayer. Uses FP to call down a deluge of light. Miranda, maiden of the Flower Crucible is said to have been the very first of this breed." Flower Crucible? This makes me think that either the primal crucible split into different crucibles for different lifeforms or there were simply more crucibles... and they had maidens? I wonder how these tie together. Though since it's unobtainable, I don't know how valid it is.

I think the Mohg under the Capital is another illusion cast my Morgot the same way he did with Margit, the evidence being they both disappear with golden sparkalies which differs from the way Mohg dies in the chamber with Miquella

@sasha5591

2 жыл бұрын

@John F then why does Margit appear and disappear with gold sparkalies and Morgot doesnt?

Love your videos! just wanted to bring to your attention a small typo in the description "Understanding the Omen mens understanding life itself in the Lands Between." Think you meant to put "means" as opposed to "mens."

I remember this one item description which says that the curse of the omen disappears instantly after death. So i think it might not be just Morgot losing his horns, but every omen. But then again, the corpses of the omen that we kill in the sewers look the same before and after death.

@MadLuigi

2 жыл бұрын

Interesting, do you know what item?

@dogemaester

2 жыл бұрын

@@MadLuigi i don't remember, but I'll look into it. 👍

I'd suggest looking into the dung eater and the seedbed curse as the curse of the dung eater is the same as the omen curse. This is reinforced by the seedbed curse description as well as the dung eaters set which if you look at the lumps they appear to be cut omen horns. This curse is an eternal curse and curses an entire bloodline which could tie directly into the birth of the omens.

I have seen in some video that the crucible existed long before the era of the erdtree but was taken over by greater will and formed into the erd tree that we see today, like a parasite taking over its host. That would explain why everything related to the crucible is being discarded by the golden order of the erd tree as it is essentially an external entity performing a hostile takeover of the crucible, the original upholder of order in the lands between.

@RashFeuer26

2 жыл бұрын

The GW sent down the Elden Beast which would later become the Ring (Elden Stars description), we also know that Placidusax was Elden Lord (bearer of the Ring?) and the dragons worshipped the Crucible, then the age of the Erdtree began with Marika and the dragons were defeated thanks to Godfrey. So the Crucible was there before the Erdtree; but it's not clear if the Crucible was also there before the Elden Ring/GW arrival.

@chubblord4611

2 жыл бұрын

@@RashFeuer26 i think the crucible was there before the elden ring / GW but the elden ring came and took over everything. That's why Godfrey also waged a war against these dragons as they worshipped the crucible before GW came.

In Farum Azula, there is what appears to be a Elden ring inscribed onto a wall. This Elden ring looks like it has branches coming off the bottom. If we go along with the theory that the greater will has employed other Elden thrones through out history, then a primordial form of the Elden ring would be far different then the one we currently wield. This Elden ring could have gone under a different name, like the crucible. It could have started all life in the lands between, and as history progressed it could be changed by its wielders. Since we don't know how long the dragons ruled the lands between, this crucible could have been their version of the Elden ring

I agree with what you say about the horns and wings and scales - such as are featured in the 3 talismans. But I think those pox/reddish pustules on their body look similar to the Loathsome Dung Eater. And this would make since as they too were banished to the capital sewers. It’s said that the dungeater defiles the corpses of those he slays. But the pox or blight or marks could also be inherent to living your whole life in feces and dead bodies and other waste. I bet they’re connected in some way; the loathsome dung eater and the omen.

another time with a banger, can you do lore videos about raya lucaria plsss

7:25 I think it'd because the Tree knights have an AoE ending to their attack, while the Axe knights have a flying charge, meaning it'd be weapon specific, which could be a cool ash of war for a third crucible knight weapon

9:08 There is actually, during his cutscene Morgott insults every other shardbearer for their destructive greed and ambition, but not Mogh. So he has respect for his brother.

@mrD518

2 жыл бұрын

I believe that's just because mohg didn't have a throne

@Red-nl4lk

2 жыл бұрын

Well it's probably cause he didn't even have a throne. He was more like a rogue from the start if anything.

@travisadams6279

2 жыл бұрын

Morgott and Mogh were not rulers or an open and official part of the Golden Order. They were outcasts as cursed children. So Morgott not mentioning Mogh doesnt really tell us how he feels about Mogh. Because Morgott is just listing off the rulers and official line of royalty.

I think an interesting question is who exactly is responsible for the discrimination towards the Omens and the Crucible. It seems to have still been regarded as divine even after the Greater Will became master of the Lands Between, what with the Crucible Knights fighting for Godfrey, and we are never told that the discrimination towards the Omens is something the Greater Will desired or ordained, but something related to the advancement of human civilization. The dichotomy here is related to the order/chaos one, but more about civilization/nature than anything. Also worth talking about is the Dung Eater ending, where he seems to spread the curse of the Omen to everybody, creating a version of the Golden Order that incorporates these aspects. It seems the Order can tolerate the Omens if need be

@omgthatsdoctorphibes

2 жыл бұрын

The first character that comes to mind and the only one that seems to suit this kind of manipulative behavior is definitely Marika. Being the vessel of Greater Will, gaining basically all the power over the Lands Between, creating Golden Order, locking away the Rune of Death, kind of seduced Renalla and left her depressed...I mean, there's not much to think about ideology-wise even, it's more like she's a bitch who just didn't like omens, didn't like death, stopped liking Godfrey all of a sudden, so she just got rid of those things/people or twisted it around so everybody started to hate them lol

@soarel325

2 жыл бұрын

@@omgthatsdoctorphibes Goldmask moment

I feel like there's a period of time between Crucible Soup and Greater Will individuality. Like, wasn't there a shit ton of things and stuff going on in the lands between prior to the Greater Will star making the Great Tree it's home? The Nox and shit were there, they favored the moon so they got banished to the underground. I'm assuming The Crucible favored the moon as well since the Nox were free to worship it prior to Greater Will deciding that was heresy.

I came to this video bc it was my hunch that the "ideal" ending (the balance between crucible chaos and order) would be something in-between Frenzied Flame and Age of Fracture. I haven't seen your other video, but my bet is that Age of Fracture would get closest to this. Also, it seems like the Haligtree comes closest to achieving the balanced world before the Golden Order went berserk. Except, the Haligtree ultimately failed because of rot.

The crucible in real world meaning is a pot used to melt metals, much like what the Crucible is like. All life came from the Crucible, melted and cool down to create the diverse and divided.

Great work

I think Frenzied Flame and the Crucible are completely different. Unlike the Crucible, which is an indifferent and chaotic life and holds endless opportunity after it, Frenzied Flame is pure death, the mighty full stop. That's why The Omen Twin put so much effort in locking the Frenzied Flame away.

Oh boi, oh boi, new vid! /grabs popcorn bucket

I feel like the idea of the crucible is why the order was so belligerent towards the dragons as well, seeing as how Placidusax was elden lord before the erdtree.

@homelessrobot

2 жыл бұрын

I think this is putting the horse before the cart. The golden order is belligerant towards anything at all outside of the official story. Because the official story is a lie that helps to preserve the greater will's power over the lands between. Dragons, mutants, casual sex, pokemon, etc.

The budding horn also talks about horns growing on creatures that usually have no horns and attributes it to the crucible.

Very nice! Thank you!

I like the far harbor music in the background lol

I completely forgot that there are omen enemies in the sewer with their horns, and that those are the ones that can spew cursed flame and tend to be bulkier. Damn, how many omens were born to royalty in the wake of the shattering?

One character that I wonder about is hewg because he certainly isn’t as large as most omens, but he seems to have similar features to omens especially what looks like clipped horns, and I would speculate that they are as bloodied as others, and possibly why he isn’t as large, is because of his age, he was the one crafted the hammer that shattered the elden ring so he is possibly as old if not older the some of the demi gods we face

Amazing video just like the others

Hello. I have a question that haunts me. Could Nepheli Loux be the daughter of Hoarah Loux? They have the same surname and she is also a barbarian warrior like Hoarah.

surprisingly, the budding horn, a crafting material, also mentions the primordial crucible.

I feel really bad for the Omen, the Golden Order gives a lot of colonialist vibes where they just kind of rolled up, took over the tree and Lands Between, and subjugated anyone who resembled the previous world, as if to try and hide their wrongdoing from history.

@trustmeits610pm2

2 жыл бұрын

Heh. Well just like real history, a lot of natives helped them do it and profited thereby. Sometimes at the expense of their own people but, you know, human greed is the same the world over.

@tylersiegenthaler9656

Жыл бұрын

By far the classiest username I've yet to see in life ty.

@applenewmoon4402

Жыл бұрын

Erm based golden order

@a.r.h9919

Жыл бұрын

Which is always enjoyable that in fantasy such themes aren't avoided for making things noble bright

@a.r.h9919

Жыл бұрын

​​​@@trustmeits610pm2it's possible that at one point could have been omen kingdoms with grafted human allies whom allied with the golden order over petty squabble to destroy other omen rivals but eventually the uneven truce they could have had with the golden order turned against them just like how many native American nations allied to the Spanish to overthrow the Aztecs At that time basically the gloam eyed queen and placidusax ruled

I wonder if the monstrous appearance of the omen and other crucible adjacent people is caused by the Greater Will suppressing or shunting aside the Crucible, like how Gwyn suppressed the darkness within man and inadvertently creating the abyss? Maybe omen and the rest looked more like fey people we see in folklore and D&D. Satyrs, fairies, fawns, etc.

@datonebri5361

Жыл бұрын

I really like this idea!

Good video but would've liked to have seen more about dung eater and how he connects to the curse. Is he a wannabe (his horns aren't real)? Is he the source of Omen curse? Can he actually spread the curse through defilement?

MORGOTT'S CURSED SWORD Weapon Skill: Cursed-Blood Slice has the same effect as the mogh's blood magic

I personally say the crucible is the most interesting thing in the game that we never really get to see or have a perfect understanding what it looks like but to me I feel like the crucible was the first order to be establish before the golden order came to be. Since it would explain the crucible knight’s since they were likely a part of the order until it was disbanded by Godfrey likely giving them a choices to either join them or be banished from their homeland. It also makes me wonder if the crucible was the one that placed a cursed On the people that lived in the capital.🤔🐱

One extra note: animals can drop "budding horn", and that is said as something more primal. The crucible affecting them as well?

Omen: Horns, and Breath. Misbegotten: Tail, and Wings (We don't get the wings, but the Knights do). Never thought about that.

9:37 I agree that balance is the key to truly good universe. The 2 fingers and the 3 fingers are both needed to make a whole or complete hand, but on their own they both seem like terrible endings

10:10 ish zooming out made me realize ghost flame candles are... bone candles? idk why thats so odd and cool to me but it definitely is

I believe that the formless mother gives birth to the omen, as she also capitalized upon their blood

Maybe the crucible transformed into a gigantic tree trying to reach for the stars (where I'm assuming the greater will resides )

Y'know if we take Horns/Knots as Omens and Feathers as Misbegotten, I wonder if that means Hewg represents one born with Scales. He's the only human/oid I can think of with those sorts of features.

@insertedgynamehere___969

2 жыл бұрын

Hewg is also a slave

The Fell Omen could be related to the Fell God, considering both has the word Fell in it. I maybe wrong though, but perhaps the reason why the Golden Order seeks to destroy the Giants because of their worship of the Fell God.

The dlc gives light to why the omen are persecuted

The Seedbed Curse is also covered in omen horns. My head-canon wants to say that omen are born from the Dung Eater's defilement but the obvious loophole here is Mohg and Morgott being born to Marika/Godfrey. The only way that would be possible is if Dung Eater defiled them and they were reborn after the Rune of Death was stolen, which I don't necessarily subscribe to.

@ajwarner1273

2 жыл бұрын

I prefer to believe that the dung eater is omen since his armor looks like it has horn stumps all over it

@bigzero7720

2 жыл бұрын

@@ajwarner1273 His armor's description says that he just *wants* to be an omen, and he himself is not one.

@ajwarner1273

2 жыл бұрын

@@bigzero7720 oh I never let him out of jail because of my homie boggart scared the hell out of me with his story

I thought by blended together it meant like really early lifeforms. When evolution was going crazy and it seemed like life was converging and diverging rapidly with every generation. And the crucible let's you manifest the traits of distantly related creatures. Which gave me the impression that the erdtree/elder beast is the common ancestor for all life or something?? And the ancestral spirits are so similar what does that meannn?? I wish i understood

@DracoSafarius

Жыл бұрын

You're right on the distant relation stuff, can essentially pull things from far back in your evolutionary tree, or possible evolutions of yourself. But the Erdtree is not the common ancestor, it's a relatively recent thing that took root in the upper part of the Great Tree that was growing out of the Crucible.

If the crusable somehow is an intersection between different forms of life, omen taking on the aspects of different life forms through the imparting of things like feathers and horns, and the erdtree is a part of the crusable, how come the dung eaters omen curse disconnects people from the erdtree? Isn't the erdtree, in that way, the ultimate representation of the crusable and the omen? If so, taking the omen's curse should connect people closer to the erdtree rather than separating people from it.

@homelessrobot

2 жыл бұрын

Because the erdtree is not the same as it used to be. In its current state, being controlled by the outer will, the erdtree and the associated golden order seperates people from the natural order of life and death calling dead souls back to it to be reborn again. And regardless of the high-level details of the lore, dung-eater isn't omniscient. He only knows/believes what he knows/believes, and it isn't necessarily very high level, or even fundamentally correct.

What if the crucible was once the combination between the greater will and frenzied flame as they are theorized to once have been one.

It makes more sense to think of the crucible as a place, not a time. Its 'where' life was early in its development. And while life was developing, it was not so ... disparate. The disparity came later after life left the crucible, sort of like how a human embryo and a chicken embryo look pretty much identical early on inside of their respective eggs, but humans and chickens do not. The crucible is a metaphor for the development of life. I don't think the greater will 'usurped' the crucible, because i don't think the crucible was a god, or any sort of personage at all. I think the contrast between the crucible and the greater will is like the contrast between the way the world works according to natural history, and the way the world works according to the roman catholic church.

Could the Crucible be connected to the Greattree? The latter served as a base for the Erdtree

Seeing as feathers were originally a part of the Crucible, I really wish we would have gotten a wings incantation of sone sort.

Seems like the crucible is where the dragons come from hence the horns scales and tails….hell even the spells from aspect of the crucible seem somewhat draconic

Why does nobody else see that the primordial tree / the great tree is still there in the middle of the lands between. The archery basically the golden aura around it it's completely separate. Third tree almost appears to be a power that is encased the great tree. The more I look at this and listen to certain lore I believe more and more that the greater will is a parasite

How do you get that free moving camera footage?

All these Miyazaki games are cosmic horror stories. These big beings, beyond gods, toy with mortals and immortals alike. They set rules for different areas in the FS games, and even invade eachother to mess up their progress. You had DS, where there were dragons and not much else, then some butthole comes along and puts disparity in your terrarium. Bloodborne had multiple Old Ones, and you could even become one yourself. Elden Ring has at least two competing for the lands between.

Mans about to make reddit real mad with the truth.

@MadLuigi

2 жыл бұрын

Lol what is reddit gonna be mad about

@warlordjr.jr.

2 жыл бұрын

@@MadLuigi said this exact topic on the elden ring subreddit they spent a week downvoting and roasting the connection

@MadLuigi

2 жыл бұрын

War Lord Jr. oof well we’ll see if i make a goon enough argument!

@jonnymario771

2 жыл бұрын

I dont understand how even lore hunters on reddit are toxic. That platform sucks.

@RashFeuer26

2 жыл бұрын

Discussing lore on reddit is impossible lmao they just follow what Vaatividya says (a whole lot of mistranslations and headcanon), and anything else gets downvoted. Such a shitty designed site. You can have actual lore discussions on /v/.

Perhaps the Crucible is the Great Kiln in DS1?

Well, the purpose of a crucible is to melt something and pour it's liquid state to make it have another shape. The implication is that there may have been something before the crucible. It's possible that the Greater Will just reforged whatever that was into the Elden Ring and made things the way they are now. And it's also possible the Frenzied Flame was simply enticed by how things looked after they were melted in the crucible, and as such started putting efforts into making things go back to that state and keep it that way - after all, a requirement for the material to remain liquid and in the shape of the crucible is... a flame. A source of heat that is, but still. But it would also explain how things far for primordial would still have an influence in the world, and why so many other different outer gods could one day try and seize this power.

I wonder if the Demi-Humans have any connection to the crucible, seeing as how they are also beastly things shunned by the golden order.

Crucible was everything together, an endless cycle of death and life (a bit like the darksouls Way of seeing reality) The Order, after banishing Godfrey, sealed death and went against nature and thats when the crucible started to be distorted and then sealed as a curse But the curse Will never be seen as such, if the next elden lord Is One of the cursed, right...Dung Eater?

Minha cabeça explodiu quando usei as algemas de margit no Mogh e funcionou hahhaha