I've been working on fire detection systems for more than 35 years in the Netherlands. In every fire detection system that has an interaction with other systems such as ventilation or elevators, the weak link is the person or company that is responsible for correct commissioning and maintenance. The owner of the building is ultimately responsible but they try to push that responsibility to one of the contractors. Unfortunately neither of the contractors will take full responsibility and will start blaming the other contractor when things go wrong. We need more people like you who feel the urgency of doing it right. Thanks a lot. I will pass this link on to enjoy and learn.

@HVACRVIDEOS

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much for watching !

DUCK DETECTOR TRIPPED! *intense quacking*

@throttlebottle5906

4 жыл бұрын

lol, I was thinking the same thing.

@HighestRank

4 жыл бұрын

throttle bottle The sentiment was literally in the Closed Captioning 22:20

I went out during a “bomb cyclone snow storm” in my personal vehicle to help out a large grocery store whose duct smoke tripped on a very large seasons4 unit. They had to pay a firefighter to stand in the store while loud siren going off... fire alarm company would not come out and could not silence the alarm( allowed me to fix). I had fire department help me write out a waiver of liability, had them and the manager sign it. I ran on roof with a multi tool and a wire nut and got the alarm silenced. Customer gave me a $500 gift card and asked me to bill them 8 hours for my time, was a win win. Alarm company showed up 3 weeks later lol.

@watermanone7567

4 жыл бұрын

I have seen similar issues, but was not lucky enough to get a bonus.

@HappilyHomicidalHooligan

4 жыл бұрын

Alarm Company needs to be smacked with a Breach of Contract Lawsuit... Preferably etched onto a Sledgehammer and applied Vigorously to the side of their heads... Repeat as needed until they clean up their act...

@Android_Warrior

3 жыл бұрын

@@HappilyHomicidalHooligan 😆 😅 😂 🤣😆 😅 😂 🤣

Wow chris...that's some shady work you found. That's the type of trash that gets people killed!!!! That company should be ashamed they let that pass as finished. And as for the start up...that's so common...these companies should be sued for letting a "half ass" so called technician start up a rtu or any system for that matter that has no business doing the job!!!. Thank you for showing what a "PROPERLY TRAINED" hvac contractor is capable of!!! Great video again

@jonathanschulz5841

4 жыл бұрын

Jesse Lute You are absolutely right! However I do want to bring up that sometimes the techs are not given the correct amount of time for a proper start up and commission. A lot of sales guys that bid the jobs think its just flip the switch and walk off the roof. So I don’t always blame the techs when I see crap like that, more than likely their boss just told them do get it done in an unreasonable amount of time.

@shadowbanned69

4 жыл бұрын

@@jonathanschulz5841 yes I do agree there...I've had a few that did exactly that!!! It's still a shame that there is no liability for that shit!!!

@throttlebottle5906

4 жыл бұрын

if I had to guess, the fire system is set to cut power to any and all fans and hvac anyway. so they didn't need both sets functional, although they probably should have bid linking to the new units. but probably the place didn't want to pay for it or deal with all the hoops and chose the cheaper route. hard to say these days.

@shadowbanned69

4 жыл бұрын

I do agree...but I've had to make those decisions myself. If you dont know how....its your responsibility to ask! Thats what makes a tech. Just knowing your limitations and when its exceeded, to find the answer and do it right. Alot of them dont care if its in right...and they are why I bitch...it only takes a few min to do a 1nce over and make sure your companies reputable name is known!

I'm just a truck driver but man this is some good stuff.

@jonnymac31

4 жыл бұрын

Just a truck driver? Man you guys are keeping the county going!

@jetthekat224

4 жыл бұрын

Jarrod El-Khouri respect

@jarrodel-khouri3133

4 жыл бұрын

@@GlitchedPepsi You're right about that 👍

@FatGuyInaTruck

4 жыл бұрын

@@jonnymac31 meh, just doing our jobs

@AndreasDelleske

4 жыл бұрын

Fat Guy In a Truck thank you :)

Can I just say I’ve done hvac for 11 years now and found your video extremely helpful and very professional. You are definitely worth every penny.

I live in the UK so these units are rare,but having watched you work on these, i am absolutely amazed that they run at all, they appear to be so complex and in general very poorly maintained by the owners. None of these comments are directed at you.you are awsome.

I just love how thorough you are. Sure, it might be a little harder to do it right the first time but doing it right is the only way to do it.

A person is a very good duct detector, "Hmm yes, I sense the presence of a duct in this building."

@HighestRank

4 жыл бұрын

Looks like a duct, walks like a duct, talks like a duct. What is it?

Your attention to detail speaks for itself ~ a pleasure to watch you work.

It's not water damage, it's the built in fire suppression system! :))

The installing contractor is to blame for all of this BS, they clearly did not know the unit they were working with. I'm a strong advocate for fire alarm technicians being used on multi-unit roof sweeps to avoid issues like this.

@actechformallyyomama746

4 жыл бұрын

Consensuallycasual I’m a firm believer that alarm companies should stay away from my detectors. Code here has changed throughout the years. First they had to be in the supply. Then in both supply and return. Now just in the return. This is for units moving 2000cfm or more. The detector in the supply is the problem. If you want a smoke detector for your fire alarm then install one. The problem is the detectors installed down stream from the heat can and will go off on the initial heat start of every year. Dust on the elements or heat exchanger will set them off. This should only shut down the system it operates and not set off an alarm ; emptying the building and monitoring station dispatching the fire department. Always when firing up heat for the season call the alarm company and have the system put in test mode.

@NazeoAelkoNezen

4 жыл бұрын

@@actechformallyyomama746 Depending on the jurisdiction, the duct detector's usually are set up to send a supervisory signal to indicate that the detector needs maintenance, which would fix a lot of the issues of them causing a mass evacuation. If they are set up for an alarm condition, a recommendation needs to be made to move them into a supervisory condition.

These vids are amazing, I really enjoy them. Alot of information in one video! Stay safe!

I love what you do man. Listen everyday as I'm driving from job to job. Hell even sometimes while on the job site. You have helped me become a better tech and I truly appreciate it. Keep up the hard work!

Those plastic enclosures just never seem to last when exposed. Smart to include them in the main boxes for weather protection!

Great Video! Shoving the wire through the unit is one thing. An improper startup on dampers and controls is another. Leaving the caps on the sample tubes was CRITICAL! Hats off to you!

Great video and description on this topic. I appreciate all your content. I hope all is well for you and yours.

Stumbled on to your not to long and what blessing for me. Just learning A/C work, enjoy your teaching videos thanks.

The installation company by not pulling the detector plugs opens up significant liability for them. You need independent eyes and a checklist to go through the work to double check everything. Not necessarily a different company, just someone who didn't work the installation.

Wow, I started watching this before work as soon as you uploaded it, but only got half way through, that was an interesting twist, considering the "redundant" duct detector. crazy

Nice work all around Chris. Thank You for the video.

I'm an electrician on outdoor boxes I usually make a small hole in the bottom of the box depending on application so at least the box dosn't fill up with water.

By the sound of your voice, i understand you are wearing a mask. Be safe out there. And all of us.

Great job man . Thank you for your time and your knowledge 👍🏾

i've been doing service about 20 years, mostly fire alarm. either way, it seems like more and more the job of a service tech is to clean up and correct installations that were done poorly years before. also, in my 20 years of fire alarm, duct detectors suck and are typically nothing but a hassle

@goalie2998

4 жыл бұрын

Always a hassle. Also these exterior ones are terrible. Wrong wire too. That low energy cable isn't listed for wet locations.

This is so interesting and I never thought these actually had so many problems before I found you

When I saw the teaser at the beginning of the video, I was expecting a whole lot more water to end up pouring out of the detector.

Good troubleshooting Chris and nice find on the red caps ...

Nice find on the duct detectors not put into service. Does the bld. or fire inspector check these during new or replacement installations? I was in my doctors office in January and looked up in the ceiling while waiting and the smoke detectors still had the dust covers on them. I told the secretary and she was going to tell the bld. maintenance person. The ceiling was open and black painted. I'll bet this happens all of the time. Thanks for the video.

Anytime wires (or even jacketed cables) laid across a bare metal edge; a grommet or bushing shall be installed. I have seen fire systems that where wired with un-jacketed doorbell wire into boxes without bushings in the ends of conduits. If you don't have a grommet you can make one by slitting a piece of small plastic or rubber line if you need to go through a punch hole -- cause where there is vibration (or even thermal expansion) the metal edge is going to eventually gnaw through the insulation. When a conduit is installed between locations of large temperature difference a compression gland or sealing compound should be use to prevent condensation. THWN conductors should be used around around wet conditions and MC rating for the jacket. Ideally the warm end of the cable would be sealed but in some situation both ends would need be. Water in the box can come from condensation pulled through a long conduit -- if part of the box is cooler than the other end of the conduit unsealed.

Great video. Learning a lot. Thank you.

Thank you for the upload. Very useful. Going to watch your other smoke detector video.

I literally am just a random youtuber and after watching some videos on window units I found your channel and now if nothing else at least I know how to help whoever buys all the old kmart buildings get their ac blowing cold again, haha

wow, I have learned so much from you!, another great video! big picture diagnosis!

Too funny so the installers set the unit, turn it on and then two years later you do the actual start up.

@HVACRVIDEOS

4 жыл бұрын

I wanted to go thru all the other units that were installed at the same time but the customer wouldn't approve that........

@markcaldwell1245

4 жыл бұрын

That sucks. Unfortunately we are at the customers mercy. If your like me I know you’ll lose some sleep over it knowing that you left a job with other problems. I guess the one nice thing is you know customers like that will be calling you back so now it is a waiting game. Maybe by the time the units all warranty out they will finally get them all properly started up, lol.

@watermanone7567

4 жыл бұрын

@@HVACRVIDEOS The customer is pretty stupid! He could be killing people if all the units are that way. Maybe you should call the fire dept. inspector.

Great video 👍, I got alot out of this and the one you recommended at the beginning.

The smell might be a sewage vent pipe close to one of the fresh air dampeners. I did maintenance at 2 restaurants that had that problem. One of my employers took a pipe coupling and wedged a screen for Windows in between and dumped carbon pellets down it. It filtered out the smell.

Those wild Ducts, no wonder they need detectors. Great videos.

another good video// as for the smell.... if it happens with low temp outside when economizer are open i would be looking at plumbing vent stacks.. on cooler/calm days the methane can pool on a roof structure with those high exterior walls. would need to piped to the outside edge. have had several restaurants that chased that problem for year keep safe

Chris: Being that you are the last person to work on this system, It is incumbent upon you to make sure that you notify the bld. or fire alarm inspector so that you don't take the blame if something goes wrong and the state fire marshal investigates who worked on the system. I have seen this in Mass in the past. Cover your butt. and don't take the blame for the last ass that left the system in that condition. Thanks for great video's.

Experience has taught me with outside weather proof IP65 rated enclosures it's often prudent to drill 2 x 6mm holes on the bottom of the electrical boxs to let condensate and water out rather than sealing water inside as they can sweat from humidity.

Nice Job Chris!

@ 5:31.... every service techs either dream or nightmare.... all that nasty water inside electronics!

Another great video. Love your content.

Best teacher thanks man!

Thank you this so helps on couple probs i have to go check

In my experience I found duct dedectar mess because of water ur work highly appritiatv u gonna fix instead of bypass big thumbs up

man that's good stuff man, this is the first time i hear about it, thanks mam

We have smoke and duct detectors go into trouble caused by humidity all the time. Not water infiltration just moist air is enough in some cases. If we have a bad smoke detect we’re all approved for life safety work and they’re easy to change duct detectors are a different animal and plant personnel take care of them.

Great content

Great video as usual

Very well done 👍👍👍

Wow bad idea to install a “waterproof” detector exposed outside like that.

@BobWiersema

4 жыл бұрын

By me in Illinois it was once code that the detectors had to be x amount of feet from the unit. But that was 30 years ago before manufactures started including them in the unit. Also around here you don't see duct work exposed on the roof like that. It just wouldn't survive the weather.

@pvh_facp4001yt

3 жыл бұрын

That detector's gasket wore off which explains the sealer outside the detector.

California electrical work. Scary stuff.

Not sure why I watch these videos , I do find them informative even though I'm not in this trade ..

Nice video Chris I'm kinda curious if your going to talk to that contractor. Lol 😂 stay safe!

Admittedly I was cringing a bit.. wondering if they even addressed the duct detectors they put in the new units. Evidently their fire alarm is an older bosch... so it was probably just a zone by zone and hopefully did not need new setup. I'm unsuprised the Duct smoke detectors were 'installed' but not set up, sadly. As a fire alarm inspector myself I see a lot of units installed poorly or badly by Hvac installers who are not properly instructed on the proper placement and operation. (let alone /sane/ placement...) That said, I would hazard a guess those duct detectors my have even been pre-installed by the supplier which.. happens. Much to one business's chagrin I've seen personally so far. (There is a tiny story there.) Ultimately I would hazard a guess that the new duct detectors were preinstalled. And the Hvac installers saw the existing units. Thus went with the easier route of just transferring the wire from the older DSDs to the new RTU, rather than connecting the old to the new device. The one thing I did not see was did you verify the internal unit was placed on the same 'side' of the airflow? I only saw one internal Duct smoke detector and while it should be on the end blowing into the store.. I have seen them on the side sucking air out of the store.. (i forget which is the supply and return at this moment.) It absolutely has to have one on the side 'returning' the air to the store. The reason being if the unit catches fire and its on the other side it may take much longer for the smoke to cycle back into the machine and shut it down. (See previously mentioned bit about a pre-installed duct detector.)

I'm a Building Enginner for commercial building on the east coast. It's surprising to me you set the duct detector to the alarm contact. The state and county I work in make it mandatory all duct detectors are only supervisory signals.

Ouch! that detector has seen better days! That water is disgusting and I can tell from your reaction that wasn't fun to deal with haha!

Fantastic video great video 👍👍👍

Oh the many times I’ve heard that warning beep on the alarm panel. Too many situations where a fire sprinkler pipe burst and tripped the alarm due to pressure loss. I blame the fire company solely due to the fact that they recently installed fire sprinklers right underneath each of the main area HVAC units and I bet they upped the pressure on the older pipes which are rated for lower pressures and are in poorer condition since they’ve been up there probably for the entire 16 years of the building’s use. (In case you are wondering this is in a Walmart)

Low voltage circuits can be a pain sometimes, those other contractors have poor workmanship, not you Chris. You need a NEC code book to help you along with those type of circuits. Good job.

Usually these detectors are set up as a supervisory which is higher than a trouble. By the looks of it, that detector is long gone. That system also looks like it's getting old as well due to those key switches. I can tell it's an older conventional system by looking at the detector Oh I just saw the system omg Bosch systems are complete shit I can't believe they are using that

I like to take a picture before taking it apart also if the wires are long enough leave some insulation on the wire on the terminal so you know the color of wire that was on that terminal

your very smart fellow tech and really good info. i almost got into new industry cause board as hell, I took a whole less money to start refrigeration so make 101 vids

Educational 👍🏼

Always check with your local fire marshal as to whether the duct smoke detectors are required to trigger a trouble or a full alarm condition. Building codes vary a lot, and sometimes the fire marshal will want to do something different than the building code, just because they can. Found that on my company's current office building after we moved in. Duct cleaners were working overnight and a duct detector set off a full alarm in the middle of the night. Neither our building code nor the current fire marshal require that, so we changed it to just go trouble and shut down the unit. The old fire marshal was requiring full alarm for duct detectors because he could, no other reason. Then they started getting automated nuisance calls so they stopped requiring that and now typically just follow the local code.

On the west coast we handle the ac side and the alarm company is responsible for the alarm side. However with modern slc fire alarm i could actually remove the alarm contacts and the fire alarm would show trouble. crossing those wires will trigger an actual alarm.

Nice video. Also known as hvacr videos curse reveal lol

Good job

Nice video tip

3:00 At this point in diagnosis, I'd pull out my fox and hound tester. I'd hook it up at the test/reset station, and go around to each weird/old duct detector's wiring and check for the ring. Less than 5 minutes work with the correct tools. 😁

I love evry sec of your vid!

@19:35 with your revisit for the unrelated door closure, will you bring sheet metal and remove those defunct detectors and close up the void?

nice fix man! hope you can use those smoke detector units that are preinstalled on the ac-units permanently as you said you hoped to do in the video :) that fix looked very sweet :)))

Good one.

12:00 This seems like some kind of nightmare without a fox and hound test set.

System Sensor is the most common smoke detector in this area and it's what we also install on new systems that requires one. I believe since I am so used to that brand that it's very easy to wire it up. You are right, the fire alarm companies will not touch them in this area.

@watermanone7567

4 жыл бұрын

O.K. who does fix them if the fire alarm company won't? Thanks

@madcitysw

4 жыл бұрын

@@watermanone7567 We do. They will contact a hvac company.

Good job dude where to go!,👍. I know for my own self Some days you’re the hero some days are the zero

Ah, so the problem is, somebody put a smoke detector into a sealed box, and poured ramen into it before closing the lid. Makes sense.

I am a retired HVAC contractor. If you are not making $150000 to $200000 a year for your amount of knowledge you are underpaid. Enjoy your videos

This one smart dude!

280 ohm resistors with leads if I'm not mistaken, but I have a variety pack in my hobby kit, comes in handy for bypass when say removing a spray booth that has fire alarm. Set it off once with a direct short, fire dept showed up, boss starts yelling that's gonna cost the company money, which mypops will just complain to me about. So, I just said" it's all my fault, I tried to bypass the alarm, I was removing a booth and scraping it, I am responsible for this so how much am I going to owe for this?" The station is on same main cross street less then a mile. Firefighter walking jogging up who I said this too kinda dropped his head, and gave me a break, small explanation and lecture. I thanked him very much and they left. All this happened in 6 or 7 mins. from response time to call, arriving, and leaving. I was extremely lucky.

You were right on again

it is good to correct bad work, but you should have used the red jacket cable for the alarm wire at least. red denotes fire retardant while the brown is not. some states dictate you have to use the fire retardant cable for all fire alarm cabling on newer installations.

Wow, what a slack installation. Whoever is responsible ought to be very red-faced right now. Those red plugs you had to remove remind me of a business park complex that I am very familiar with. The smoke detectors in many of the office and warehouse units still had their original red plastic dust caps attached years after the fire system was installed. Those caps clearly say on them "Remove before commissioning". Clearly the commissioning step never happened, nor did the fire service contractors report them as still being in place during the annual inspections they were paid to carry out.

@watermanone7567

4 жыл бұрын

Could not agree with you more. I have commissioned many schools and other buildings. The inspectors must be playing poker somewhere.

Well done. FA is much simpler than most people think. I am surprised you haven't come accross more addressable systems.

@watermanone7567

4 жыл бұрын

Addressable systems is pretty much what you get on the East Coast. Thanks

Say what you want about the installing contractor but those curb adapters are the work of a creative genius. Or a diabolical tin knocking madman. :-)

In Nyc if I had fire alarm issue, I have to verify that it's their equipment messed up and we call them and they fix it. Where not supposed to touch it. I'm union so idk if that's union rules or nyc rules.

The thermostat said unoccupied. is that an issue?

Good to hear your wearing your mask! Stay safe! Thanks for the videos! Keep up the hard work!

I don’t own any industrial ac unit, I don’t have business, I don’t planing studying ac maintenance, I don’t speak or understand all the term using here but for some reason I watching this video after mowing some grass at work lol

I have an old church I do the service at. The fire alarm company came out to redo the system. It was wired on many of my air handlers to send a 24v signal to shut down the units. This is not good. If a fire happens the wire could get burned and no signal would be sent. So they rewired for voltage drop. Now 5 air handlers are not running. They told me they were done. They told me I needed to rewire their relays. I’m not touching your relays I said but I will bypass them if they shut down my units so all the work you just did won’t work. I was pissed. They rewired the relays. I won’t be liable for anything fire related. I wish alarm company’s would stay away from our smoke detectors.

@actechformallyyomama746

4 жыл бұрын

I should mention that all these units had my detectors on them so they would shut down if smoke was detected and they are hot and chill water.

Cracking open gear that has water inside, I personally call it "Cracking the egg", as there is a mix of clear and thick yellow fluids

Those red plugs are test ports. The sampling tubes are what circulates air through the detector during normal operation.

@seriouscat2231

4 жыл бұрын

Where were those sampling tubes in the picture?

I miss those dry contact smoke/fire detectors and those smoke detectors are not nema 3 certified enclosure(outdoor) they are nema 2 which is for "indoor use only" or should be installed in a nema 3R enclosure.

The duct detector is connected to the fire system control unless it has contacts that tips fan and damper shut down. It detects smoke in the return duct and had it operated it would indicate one of two things, trouble [dirty or defective device] or fire which the fire department would respond. . It has nothing to do with the AVAC operation.

Wow. I can’t believe someone left the dust plugs in new detectors. I bet all new detectors were like that

U got to look at the whole picture 👌🏽

Sometimes, the trouble condition can be urgent