Once Eric realizes he can click on a piece and only legal moves are highlighted, he'll have a lot less confusion and play a lot better.

@TheWehttamD

2 ай бұрын

The thing is he needs to avoid checkmate and material losses and it's hard to calculate from the distance with drawbacks

@Tenseiken_

2 ай бұрын

That's a really linear way of thinking how the difficulty is created and frankly it's not working like that, especially considering this is not some 900 player who can't think ahead of moves and how pieces can move in general. I think this video and the previous drawkback chess video are evidence that he's definitely above that level of what you're suggesting. You can't just lift every piece you see moves for every single turn, there's just no time for that. If you see 5 potential moves from 5 different minor pieces you can't just keep lifting them unless you want to majorily increase the chances of losing by flagging.

@FluxXx7789

2 ай бұрын

@@Tenseiken_ Your putting words into @SkizzeYTs mouth. He never said it's how the difficulty is created, he said Eric will play better if he realizes that fact, which is true. Instead of wondering "can I make this move or can't I?" when already chosen a potential piece, he can just click it and see if he can or can't. He also never suggested Erics Level of chess or said that he should highlight every piece every time. Where did you read all of that, lol?

@ArticulateDuck

2 ай бұрын

@@Tenseiken_ okay, sure, but there *are* moments where he stops to ponder aloud for several seconds on whether a piece can make a certain move.

@howlingwolf317

2 ай бұрын

Yeah for example he actually could have done the extended fianchetto with his bishop in the "Going the Distance" game because he forgot that's the Manhattan distance of 4, not 2. But he didn't notice the dot showing it was legal.

19:45 "The problem is there's no stalemate in this game" Eric in shambles 😂

@Jivvi

2 ай бұрын

Right after "Never resign if you have a knight," and giving away the knight.

33:31 amazing that the wording of his drawback was edited in real time. Live the devs for this!

@wasi9843

2 ай бұрын

It happened sometime before playing the move but page refreshed when he played the move so it displayed at that particular moment

@uifwastaken

2 ай бұрын

So I'm not the only one who noticed that one letter:)

@benthebeaver

2 ай бұрын

I've gone back and forth at that time code so much and I still haven't noticed it. What changed?

@dancingwithyourghost9087

2 ай бұрын

@@benthebeaver the text changes to "at" instead of "as"

@TymexComputing

2 ай бұрын

Seen that :), but lets not bring out conspiracy theories. i wonder if Quinn is connected with this site :)

The fact that it’s impossible to tell if the opponents are exploiting the drawbacks or just blundering is hilarious

33:51 International Master: "How do knights move? 1, 2, 3"

27:40 made me LOL "free knight! ... oh i can't save the bishop" 😂

I think the Chebyshev or 'king' distance - i.e. smallest number of king moves to get from A to B - feels more natural and is easier to see on the board than Manhattan. Manhattan makes diagonal moves moves huge compared to up/down/left/right or the Pythagorean length. King distance makes diagonals smaller than Pythagorean length, but it reflects the 'true' metric of the chess board since kings actually do cheat Pythagoras in that sense. Also 'H-phile' should really be called 'H-phobe'! It's still a pun, kinda... or an anti-pun.

@maxomega3

2 ай бұрын

i thought about that too. It'd probably be easier too since enemy pawn captures would count as 1. On the other hand, maybe not since your pawn captures and king moves would only ever count as 1 as well.

@TymexComputing

2 ай бұрын

No no no - kings distance for pawn capture is only one as king move on diagonals. Metro metric /city metric is very well known to anybody who had some basic topology or analysis classes.

@chris865

2 ай бұрын

@@maxomega3 I think I agree Chebyshev would be easier (for the 'match their move distance' drawback), because being forced under Manhattan to make a long-ish bishop/queen move is quite restrictive and could involve giving up the piece. There would be times when the reacting player would wish they could make a short diagonal move that Manhattan would allow but Chebyshev wouldn't, so it's not clear-cut, but in most positions there would still be a lot of alternatives available.

@angelmendez-rivera351

2 ай бұрын

@@chris865 It would be easier, but does this mean it should be used? After all, given what the glossary stated, this one is definitely intended to be cruel.

@chris865

2 ай бұрын

@@angelmendez-rivera351 Haha yes true, and I didn't mean to suggest this challenge ought to be easier! I suppose using Manhattan gives the drawback a certain alien geometry and themes like 'bishops are terrifying'. It's definitely interesting and might be just what they wanted for this one. I feel Chebyshev would be good for themes that use the notion of distance as a tool but don't want it to be a source of weirdness in itself.

I sometimes play a game with my friends on a chess board, where one person (the game master) makes up the rules and the players only know how the game ends (usually capturing the king, but not always) and have to figure out how the rules by playing. The game master only tells whether a move is legal or not. If it is legal, then the move is made. Otherwise the player gets another attempt. This video makes we want to make it into a website like drawback chess, so that Eric can play it. The rules can be anything, but many follow the "Chess, but ..." principle. E.g. Chess, but you can only move closer to the center. Or Chess, but you capture by sandwiching an opponent piece. Or Chess, but the pieces gain the powers of the pieces protecting them. Chess, but all pieces are queens. Chess, but captures are forced etc.

@trainzack

Ай бұрын

I love a good game of Penultima!

some of those drawbacks are brutal; Eric's in the 21:44 was hard but his opponents was absolutely brutal

@kuba4ful

2 ай бұрын

53:03 Same situation here, Eric with a tough drawback has an opponent with an even tougher one lol.

I've tried timed 5+5 against a human and unlimited time against the AI. iirc I beat the AI once because it had some insane drawback which I can't remember. The last game I played, I lost in a funny way: the AI had an intermittent drawback: color blind - it couldn't move to a particular colour (randomized each move). Its queen saw and didn't capture my king about five moves in a row. I got complacent, thinking that its queen couldn't capture my king :)

It's crucial that an explicit metric is set in the wording of distance-based drawbacks

@AlphaSquadZero

2 ай бұрын

There is, it is in the rules. They just don't list out every single definition within the drawback.

@freshrockpapa-e7799

2 ай бұрын

It isn't said in the first game. @@AlphaSquadZero

@AlphaSquadZero

Ай бұрын

@@freshrockpapa-e7799 who said it was listed in the first game?

@freshrockpapa-e7799

Ай бұрын

@@AlphaSquadZero you, you said it's in the rules, yet it isn't explicitly said.

@AlphaSquadZero

Ай бұрын

@@freshrockpapa-e7799 I see your misunderstanding. What we see in the video is the challenge description. In the rules page of the website, it outlines all of the explicit definitions to the words that they use in the challenges.

This is my favorite variant for now, it is so creative

"Never resign if you have a knight." _Sacs the knight_

thing is, you have to leave your king hanging, but your opponent might get into a situation where he cant take your king. I won a game while in check because i was able to make a check in response and my opponent had the drawback to always move out of check with the king.

Love this format, please bring more of it to KZread!

yay more drawback chess!!!

It would be interesting if both players had the same drawback, would make the strategy a lot different.

@William1w1

2 ай бұрын

Agreed. I feel like that's more in the spirit of the game, too. It would be interesting to see Eric try to figure out not only how to move given a particular drawback, but how to exploit an opponent with the same one. Maybe the dev could create a variant where players get the same drawback.

@erifetim

2 ай бұрын

I wonder what would happen though if both got sth like "your moves must alternate between dark and light squares" or "you can't move towards the edge of the board", where it'd be pretty easy to save the king / induce a draw

@U20E0

2 ай бұрын

I can see that causing leading to forced draws becoming common ( eg parity issues )

@Tzizenorec

2 ай бұрын

That's just a chess variant. Interesting, yeah, but it's what _predated_ drawback chess.

This is really fun, I'd love to watch more.

Love the draw back chess videos. My kid told me about your stream for this style and I’m loving it! Please continue with these videos!

@Chraan

Ай бұрын

Drawback Chess was inspired by the KZreadr Chess Simp who imposes challenges onto himself, maybe you enjoy his videos

2:33 Ne5 traps the queen!!! Edit: nvm, i thought both players had the same drawback

More of this, please!

I wonder if someone’s going to make a cheaty assistant app for this game that watches your opponent’s moves and narrows down the list of what their drawback might be. It feels like you could pretty reliably determine it by endgame, which would be a huge advantage…

@J7Handle

2 ай бұрын

Would it be cheating if you had a friend doing it? Personally I think this is a pretty noncompetitive version of the game, too chaotic to really freak out over cheating. If a player cheats, their ELO will get higher than what it would be if they didn’t cheat, but so what? I don’t think anyone is a professional player of this game anyways, nor is anyone really keeping track of their own or other player’s ELO as a measure of their human ability.

@carstenandersen6818

2 ай бұрын

some drawbacks seem a lot simpler to figure out than others, too. alternator can be figured out once you notice the move tracker on the side is all alternated

I've been playing drawback chess for 2 weeks now and I like it at least the same as old good regular chess

this is incredible, feels like playing chess on acid

31:54 I feel like you should get the same drawback in the next game if the game is aborted, to avoid tactically aborting for better drawbacks.

@rakhatthenut3815

2 ай бұрын

You can just choose to get easier drawbacks

@helpstone9101

2 ай бұрын

The difficulty of the drawback is balanced according to opponent strength and opponent drawback. So if you get an easy drawback your opponent most likely also got an easy one or is a higher rated player

@mingyue_chen

2 ай бұрын

C'mon, it's just a game. Why make it hard on people by forcing them to play a drawback they simply don't feel like? By your logic, should they get the same drawback if they resign? Still, you won't be getting an advantage because the drawbacks are matched according to elos.

@surelyredtyping9887

2 ай бұрын

@@mingyue_chen I disagree with your point about getting the same advantage with the same drawback elo. Firstly, drawback elos are not perfect. Secondly, drawbacks do not affect different people equally; different playstyles are affected by the same drawback in different ways. For example, players well-versed in the hippo might have an advantage in the theoretical drawback: "you can only move every pawn one square on the first move." I should have been much more clear in what I was trying to say: in my brain I was kind of referring to possible competitive situations, like if they ever developed a rating system for players (would be interesting to see strategies play out, etc.). I completely agree with you that people should be able to abort to reset drawbacks if they simply don't like some or the other drawback

@angelmendez-rivera351

2 ай бұрын

@@mingyue_chen​​⁠ *Why make it hard on people by forcing them to play a drawback they simply don't feel like?* Because those are the rules of drawback chess. Look, as you said yourself: it is just a game. If you do not want to play drawback chess, then do not play it. It is that simple. The other hundreds of chess variants are not going away anytime soon, so just play one of those instead. *By logic, should they get the samd drawback if they resign?* I'd be fine with that. *Still, you won't be getting an advantage because the drawbacks are matched according to ELOs.* This is simply untrue.

I love this variant!

They really need to work on their wording. Such a cool idea for endless chess variants though!

Drawback chess is so cool. 😎 thanks for your content!

lol that first game, if you just never move the king, you basically can't lose unless somthing like the rook never leaves the edge

Alternator would be brutal against an opponent familiar with it. The pattern is easy to see on the move list. That also makes it a good one to fake if you have something worse.

6:42 Eric is so lucky that his opponent's drawback came in clutch! Rd8 also would have just been game over other than the move that Eric pointed out at 9:19

I won a game where I could not move on a square that my opponent captured on. Which meant that I was unable to recapture, ever. I forgot what exactly happened, but I treasure that win.

The way they explain the drawback makes my head spin. So confusing!

Love all these variants! But more of this content on the channels please 😊. Probably a lot of work but may I suggest a hashtag system for full streams that include variants, like #spellchess

So far, this variant is the best at making the player confused of what the drawback means

48:30 i think you gotta make capture moves as move as possible, so you arent stuck at having to recapture stuff after you are building up.

Might be an interesting strategy to make some crazy moves like Qxe2 just to see what your opponent does with it.

@amongsussyballs

2 ай бұрын

SPELUNKY

Pythagorean theorem was what I had in mind in the first game .. 😂 happy you said that

Drawback chess is amazing! Very addictive!

i love your vids so im commenting for the algorithm. also at 57:17 your bishop wouldve been trapped after opponent plays D4. luckily they didnt see that

Love it Eric. Play more ❤

raise Rosen's drawback Elo oh no~! so fun ty

my opponent had a drawback of "Crusade: By move 13 a piece has to occupy D6" and I got the one where knights cant capture and they ended up leaving the queen at d6 from move 10 to 23 due to a pin and checkmate prevention while I nearly lost

Ye!

if looks like it is the number of moves to the king with a certain piece on an empty board or something like that, not absolute distance, so you could have castled all along i think

I can imagine this being really fun to try and play a balanced match between you and a lower skilled opponent, if they have enough drawbacks of various elos so you can't just guess them. If they figure out a way to factor in a player elo too that would be very fun!

worst drawback: death wish - if you can move your king into check and you aren't already in check, you must

@tochoXK3

Ай бұрын

Is this an actual Drawback? Sounds very hard indeed.

This is fun

I think distance is always Manhattan distance. And legal moves are highlighted

wow this is fun! awesome idea for a chess mod ~

35:00 it's hilarious that this Bf5 move is actually a distance of 6

This is big brain time

"Sniping Eric" haha

"Distance" is probably measured in king steps, so a1 is 7 steps away from a8, and also from h8. Imagine rings or layers, like a cake or an onion, around the king. Your pieces have to stay on that layer or go deeper into the onion.

@enderyu

2 ай бұрын

It's stated that distance on drawback chess is always manhattan/taxicab distance, so you should imagine a rhombus instead of rings and diagonal king move has a distance of 2

That person with the no 2 pieces in a file clearly wanted to sac the rook to make space to develop some pieces i think.

15:16 I thought 10.gxh6 looked more promising, both for the actual position and for the drawback. It guarantees a path to f6 for the bishop, and you still have time to maneuver your knight if necessary.

well that was fun

I had a drawback where I would lose as long as the number of pieces I have is less than the number of pieces my opponent had. Pieces included pawns. So when we had the 4 knights game, my opponent played the Halloween gambit and I lost.

Eric can u make a vedio about how to beat the italian

Hey Eric I remember you tried learning Go a long time ago. How did it Go? You ever try Shogi? Why don't I see more chess players try other games?

@mingyue_chen

2 ай бұрын

To your last question, because they choose chess as a profession. Playing chess variants is in line with the overall chess thinking but learning other games is not.

best player ever

Would love to see a variant of this variant where you both have the same drawbacks. That seems more balanced 😀

@Tenseiken_

2 ай бұрын

...It's a mode that purposefully takes away balance man. The clash of different drawbacks is what makes it interesting plus figuring out the drawback of your opponent by how differently they play.

@Silvergrooves42

2 ай бұрын

I think the real balance would be to have a small pool of drawbacks for each game. So you know your opponent has 1 of 3 possible drawbacks or something.

@lucasmatsuoca

2 ай бұрын

I think thats not the point of the game, there is a “luck” factor in this variant of chess. And it is fun to have diffebt drawbacks because you can suddenly win an apparently lost game because of your opponent’s drawbqck

@dhochee

2 ай бұрын

@@lucasmatsuocaThat's precisely why this is less appealing to me. I like the randomness, and don't mind having discovery be part of the strategy, but adding so much luck that it's nearly impossible to overcome with skill takes away the fun for me.

@lucasmatsuoca

2 ай бұрын

@@dhochee that's the idea though, as a competitive guy, i don't like these type of games either, but for fun they are more interesting because of this suprise factor. Although I'd prefer another "luck based" games instead of chess variant

Sniping Eric, Bwuhaha that's nice

good to know that basic Pythagorean theory is harder for people actually good at chess than a college dropout.

This is so stressful lol

Hey Eric I think we played. I just beat "imrosen" on drawbackchess, only you couldn't move to undefended squares (brutal drawback!) I was playing as Sleepy Blue Monkey. If it was you, then gg man, fun stuff!

Now you've gotta make a marble play button or something, idk

Did Mr R ever play the variant in which most of the pieces move the same way but all capture differently?

isn't this taxi cab geometry, technically the king then can be on any square on the back rank. because it is always the same number of moves away. or it is absolute distance?

40:40 ... How was the opponent supposed to win if he can't give check? You have to hope that the king is forced to move into the attacking range of a piece?

6:42 Rd7 traps the queen

nvm, it is absolute distance, what a nightmare

I love other chess variants, but not so much this one. I don't like games where some of the rules are hidden. How do you develop any reasonable expertise? Nevertheless, it's fun to watch Eric work his way through these games.

At 2:28, would Ne5 not trap the queen? Since queen cant move backwards? nvm opponent doesnt have same rules

Yeah if you stalemate the king you win. So he had to play for stalemate that gsme

kinda hard to understand (i'm only 7 mins in) - why was kh8 not possible? it's the same number of squares away from your opponents king as it was on kg8? or is it actual distance like in terms of cm or mm? or inches for those of you who still use imperial system

Can you imagine if both players got Going the Distance? That game would get wacky FAST.

@mingyue_chen

2 ай бұрын

Is it possible for both players to get the same drawback though?

the drawbacks are really dumb sometimes in how they match up. i had a drawback to a 4 move capture sequence starting at move 16 while my opponent had something for move 20. so the opponent basically got to play as aggressive as he liked while i lost on move 18 because i couldnt get out of check while having to do a capture. his drawback never came into effect because of that lol.

@chris865

2 ай бұрын

It would be interesting to try to model the elo of each pairing of drawbacks since some of them might completely trump others, even if they're both independently a similar difficulty. It should be possible, but it would take more data points to get good estimates.

I like to seeing Eric play against humans as they will have nicer drawbacks than him. The humour is in the hardship :)

Just one more game... :)

I got 1 where I had to get a piece to h8 by move 16 as white... Needless to say I lost

@dominicpirola8240

2 ай бұрын

Extremely impressed Eric was able to get a piece on f6 like wow

I was a chess simp fan before it was cool

Always occupy F6

40:38 How do you capture opponents king if you cant check??

did eric miss a tactic at 2:32? the queen has to move forwards and is trapped in place so Ne5 wins the queen

Sniping-eric changed their name to freeman2 after the game

Eric Rosen on the chess simp website wat.

bruh just click the piece to see if a legal move

... it lets you capture your own pieces?

Seems to me "You can't make moves that make your pieces farther away from their king" really implies your own king, not the opponents. It is a grammatical error.

How was the farther away should definitely be explained. Is it "more moves away"?

@niekka1978

2 ай бұрын

I just did not realize at first that the opponent has a different drawback... Seems would be more fun with same rules for both.

Chess Simp has entered the chat.

Why can't I find a video from any other creator in this game? I'm obsessed.Gotta hate the one where you need to move all your pieces one rank every 10 moves for them to survive though, it's impossible to win

@thebrahmnicboy

2 ай бұрын

ChessSimp has an entire channel lol

@humansareweird2866

2 ай бұрын

@@thebrahmnicboy I've seen it but I prefer when both sides have a drawback to work with

If they can’t give check, how do they capture the king?

@chris865

2 ай бұрын

You have to force the king to step into check, which I guess means the preceding position would be stalemate in normal chess.

We don’t want this we want speedrun

No on the last game your drawback was still bigger. Because while black could never take back a piece that you captured after it moved to a square. Your drawback is completely defusing that issue since you can't move the piece you've captured with away so that he can still capture you next move (obviously you can still defend that piece in that move but only with a piece you cant capture with next move. So I think the tactics where you can get an advantage from it seem very rare)

@theodoremurdock9984

2 ай бұрын

The opponent’s drawback was to never be able to access any square they’d moved to ever again…delay of a turn has no impact on their ability to recapture, every square they’ve moved to becomes a permanent safe outpost for Eric…it’s an absolutely brutal drawback.

@KITT-ms5ep

2 ай бұрын

Yeah. Gonna agree with Theodore here. Opponents drawback on the last game was worse than Eric’s and it’s not even close.

manhattan distance seems rough, opp moves four squares with a bishop, and you don't have a bishop yourself? good luck even finding a move with your rook/queen across the whole board

20:37 That was a really bad drawback matchup.

49:17 if he played Qd7+ instead of Qxc7+, he could've won the knight like he wanted, no?

Eric idk if you realized but he could’ve played Rd7 at any point and won your rook cause your queen can’t move further from their king

@Tenseiken_

2 ай бұрын

Bro really backseated on a drawback chess video like it's gonna actually help in future matches