Debate review here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/g2SJ2JV6iry3d84.html

@emperor7226

4 жыл бұрын

Hi! Thank you, for debating muslims. Would love to see you debating James White from Alpha&Omega Ministries on liturgy, sola scriptura and church history. I heard hin saying bad things about the Orthodox church. In his opinion the Orthodox church is 7th century and what he believes and does in church is the original. Sorry, for my english. Greetings from an orthodox of Germany

@monogenes3091

4 жыл бұрын

This is interesting, loved it thank you Mr. Jay Dyer.

@Khaledf

4 жыл бұрын

*Not sure about your point! It's obviously irrelevent.* *First,* I am familiar with your argument, which is based on a gross misunderstanding of muslims' theology about Quran. Basically you're trying to say if you(muslims) believe that Quran is the word of God, then you would have somehow another entity beside God! This is so silly. Attributes of God are not separate entities beside God, and they don't negate the oneness of God. For example, if one person came to me and spoke with me, then I wrote down what he said to me, *how on earth would that negate the fact that person is one?* Was this "the philosophical expertise" you're trying to make to tell us that Trinity is coherent logically!! 🙃 *Second,* Shabir refuted you brilliantlly simply by pointing to the Torah and by pointing to the words of Jesus himself( attributs of Jesus himself.) Not sure why you're complaining about Shabir Ally that he did not want to answer.🤷🏻‍♂️ He did. Moreover, you yourself muted this very "argument" which came out of your "expertise" in philosophy by denying that attributes of God are entities beside God when Shabir asked you about the seven spirits. Remember? Notice that the context where these spirits got mentioned doesn't even help you with meaning you gave. However, the point here is the attributes of God are not separate entities, so not sure what exactly your objection is to Shabir? 🤷🏻‍♂️

@monogenes3091

4 жыл бұрын

@@Khaledf May I ask how did allah has a name called Allah before the Arabic language existed? Arabic slightly existed for 1500 years around 512 common era, and the Word " Allah" has specific definition only in Arabic form. If the word Allah had already existed way before Arabic language exists, so it must be according to earlier culture or other language. So what does it according to? What is the continuity of Islam?

@monogenes3091

4 жыл бұрын

@@Khaledf And in Deuteronomy 6:4 Shema Yisra'el Yehovah eloyhiym echad Yehovah, Hear O' Israel the LORD our God is one LORD. the text " one" is Echad which is a compound of Unity, is a complex oneness not Yachid. Echad = Ahad, Yachid = Wahid.

Im seriously considering orhtodox christianity now

@nuzzi6620

3 жыл бұрын

It’s the Way, do it!

@Hez0

3 жыл бұрын

@@nuzzi6620 Jesus is the way.

@laughingseagull000

3 жыл бұрын

Dewit.

@Valthegal04

3 жыл бұрын

Hope you find the truth in Jesus😌🙏

@haltdieklappe7972

2 жыл бұрын

I have struggle with believing in god

Orthodoxy is clearly the answer to all of muslim, jewish, pagan and atheists critique. It is trully the One True religion .

@abdelw

4 жыл бұрын

Unclear, illogical, non historical, paganistic... But true.

@abdelw

4 жыл бұрын

@Ναζωραῖος You are deluding yourself. Worshipping a man... I mean... Wow ...

@mcgugrah

4 жыл бұрын

az z assuming conclusion that God cannot become incarnate. Locked out of his own creation unable to enter in.

@abdelw

4 жыл бұрын

@@mcgugrah So God pretended to be a man, weak and ignorant? That's so stupid. Can God make a round-shaped rectangle? No. Does this mean God 's weak? No, absolutely not. The weakness is only in the brain that asks this type of question. Either you make a rectangle or a circle. You can't have it both ways. Either your a man... Or God. Likewise, you cannot have it both ways. Philosophy 101.

@Cobruh_Commander

4 жыл бұрын

@@abdelw You make the same mistake all heretics do by conflating person and nature.

I love how he literally answered no questions, got schooled in cross examination and then just restates his opening arguments during his closing arguments. You killed it Jay, good stuff

@GaryVelardo-rb6nw

8 ай бұрын

That's the arrogance of Islam for yah. All Muslims do that cuz they got nothing else. The real problem is that for the many of them that "do" know that what they say & defend is a lie, they continue on - with the knowing that it's all of Satan.

@Setaishafree

7 ай бұрын

That's his whole carrier wrapped up, right there!

@1sosukeaizen1

21 күн бұрын

You didn’t watch the debate buddy

I first watched jay and he owned my subscription. I was so impressed about his knowledge. Shabir had hard time to answers and he was gasping for air. I’m ex Muslim Christian from Pakistan. Much love and respect for jay✊❤️.

@mega25201

4 жыл бұрын

Jamal Khan I’m glad that you found the truth. You’re an intelligent person to recognize the truth and a brave person to leave Islam in Pakistan. God be with you.

@billshepherd5090

4 жыл бұрын

Neil Rubio: do you have the power to lay down your life and to take it up again. John 10 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. This shows Jesus has the power to bring his body back to life once it died. Did MoeHoward bring himself back to life, nope.

@bung1985january

4 жыл бұрын

God Bless you bro.

@nc4042

4 жыл бұрын

Ioannis Grivas it’s to complicated to understand without the Holy Spirit... They pretend to respect the book but they don’t understand the promises and they pretend to respect the people of the book while calling us khanzeer (pigs)

@nc4042

4 жыл бұрын

Neil Rubio kiss ekhtak w kiss emmak bi ayri ya Ibn khanzeer. Read other books than the Quran and get educated for a change

As a Protestant I'm very glad I listened to this debate. I never actually heard orthodox Christians express their views so this was very nice. Especially since he did such an excellent way of defending most if not all what I believe.

@cjgumbert

3 жыл бұрын

@C G The Orthodox Church is the one true Church of the apostles. Roman Catholicism is not.

@Abu_Brandino

2 жыл бұрын

@@cjgumbert Cringe. What about us Eastern Catholics. Have some respect for your apostolic brothers and sisters.

@jackjames6849

2 жыл бұрын

@@Abu_Brandino We're not brothers with Romans in general or Uniates in particular. This is the same from the Roman Catholic perspective, I imagine; brother is reserved for those with whom we concelebrate the eucharist. So when I say "we are not brothers" it is not spoken with derision - it is a matter of fact. Ecumenism interests me only in it's existence as a device of the Adversary to promote "indifferentism" among those who profess faith in Christ.

@Abu_Brandino

2 жыл бұрын

@@jackjames6849 Ok schismatic.

@jackjames6849

2 жыл бұрын

@@Abu_Brandino "Schismatic" from the church which replaced Christ with the Pope? I can handle that. Rome is the seat of perdition.

Great debate - we were blessed to have Shabir agree to come on and debate Jay. Shabir is one of the Mike Tysons of Islamic apologetics so we were very lucky that he agreed to come on and may be there will be further discussions.

@seancloud0

3 жыл бұрын

I want to see another debate with him and Jay but on a different topic. Shabir has debated the same people multiple times so we will probably see another with them.

Jay, you have clear answers for so many questions that every Christian has about the Trinity and the Hypostatic Union. I think many people leave the faith because their spiritual leaders are unable to, unwilling to, or tremendously mistaken concerning how to answer these questions with the power of being in accord with the historic river of Orthodox belief. Not that we can ever have “everything figured out”, but I think too often Christians just appeal to mystery instead of investigating how the church has historically answered. Thanks for giving so much of your time to help us understand these things! God bless you!

@dqschannel

3 жыл бұрын

Jay should write a book on this.

Shabirs whole argument can be thrown out. He says that the bible has been corrupted but he uses it to back up his claims

@obdios

3 жыл бұрын

It is called Islamic dillema..... Lol

@omarabbasi2682

2 жыл бұрын

That’s a bad argument

@Gathwar_

Жыл бұрын

@@obdios And islamic propaganda

This is a huge milestone for Jay. I saw William Lane Craig debate Shabir when I was a kid. Shabir is one of the top Islamic apologists. And Jay just mopped the floor with him

@sery1965

Жыл бұрын

The problema with Shabir Ali, is the same reazon of all Muslims,"Yhey never answer questions with logicaland exegetical understanding "

@Abu_Tuesday

Ай бұрын

Lmao, it just depends on people's biases at the end. To a muslim it will look like shabir mopped the floor with jay and to Christians it will look like jay mopped the floor with shabir. And it's not just this debate, there are debates which i am sure even you will agree that muslim won that debate but still you will find Christian doing victory parade. So at the end it just rests on biases

@boxingboxingboxing99

Ай бұрын

@@Abu_TuesdayNot really. I came into the debate expecting shabir to whoop dyer. But dyer absolutely destroyed him. No bias involved.

@kingcurmudgeon8685

Ай бұрын

It is only a true win when he gives up his belief in a false religion like Islam and recognizes Christ as the only true savior and God

Finally someone explaining to a Muslim true trinitarian theology

@manne8575

3 жыл бұрын

@@dragonofchaos7843 Haha, another Muslim that can't accept the truth

@manne8575

3 жыл бұрын

@@dragonofchaos7843 It is not.

@manne8575

3 жыл бұрын

@@dragonofchaos7843 You are absolutely deluded. Here, have some knowledge: kzread.info/dash/bejne/qnWXprhrZ5Oqj5M.html kzread.info/dash/bejne/lmGVuLNxfaiylco.html kzread.info/dash/bejne/dIKol7CEg9bLYLw.html

@shiningdiamond5046

3 жыл бұрын

@@dragonofchaos7843 The trinity is specifically a Christian dogma pagans don't have a messiah or atonement

@SonoftheSteppes

3 жыл бұрын

@@dragonofchaos7843 You worship the Kaaba and venerate a black stone, that's idolatry. Your religion contains many beliefs from pagan arabic religion. Islam a false religion.

This was an awesome debate! As an early student of Orthodoxy, Dr. Shabir asked so many questions I had, it was as if I was able to talk to Jay myself. So cool, thank you Jay and Dr. Shabir! I’ll watch this all over again and then probably again.

@coltonthedrummer

4 жыл бұрын

I had fun trying to answer each of his questions myself in my head before Dyer, and it felt good that Jays answers were almost always basically the same answer I had, specifically early on in the questioning.

@georgesk2506

4 жыл бұрын

@@zenebusman8575 hey zeneb. Hope you are doing well. Are you a christian convert?

@zenebusman8575

4 жыл бұрын

@@georgesk2506 Hello Georges, No. I am a Muslim. Have a good day.

@georgesk2506

4 жыл бұрын

@@zenebusman8575 Have a good day too 👍

@justreal4379

2 жыл бұрын

@@zenebusman8575 or have a good night 😴

this is a very good debate! i really respect how Jay calmly explicates and refuses to back down. i will pray for dr. shabir, he seems like a man who doesn't want to hurt anyone and hopes to know truth, but is experiencing severe cognitive dissonance. Jay just won't stop catechizing and it's RAD! keep it up Jay! the Word never goes out in vain! 💪☦️

@nomorezoutsbats9707

2 жыл бұрын

Cca

Very good debate Jay

After watching this video, I have no choice, but convert to Orthodox Christianity. How can i remain? Dr. Shabir couldn't even defend our God. And Jay answered alot of questions I had beforehand, that Evangelicals/Protestants who normally debate Muslims, don't answer adequately. I have to think about my future life... This is not good.

@EikonMysterion

4 жыл бұрын

God bless you and keep you.

@Draastiq

4 жыл бұрын

I’m very happy for you, God bless you.

@Bot-vz9zg

4 жыл бұрын

It’s a hard process, but God willing you’ll convert. If you want Jay Dyer has a discord where you get to discuss & ask questions, there’s a lot of great resources, etc.

@Nazam44

4 жыл бұрын

It's not our God vs their God, since Muslims believe that there is only one God and our and their's is the same, although we may have different conceptions of this one universal God.

@gewargisgeorgios8186

4 жыл бұрын

Keep seeking Abu. Get in touch with Jay if you have questions. God bless.

Great work Jay. Couldn't catch the debate live because I was at vigil, but I watched it now. Keep up the wonderful defense for Christ.

One of the best debates i have seen, Jay answered all of the questions and more, you can see Shabir clearly speachless on many occasions. It seemed like Shabir wanted to learn our theology rather than trying to debate it, a proper schooling! Well Done Jay from a fellow Orthodox Christian.

Michael Heiser does the best job of anyone proving the trinity from the Old Testament.

You Muslims say you honour and respect Jesus, but He said, 'You must honour Me as you honour the Father.' The honour befitting God is higher than the honour given to people in authority, such as governments and family, also to your spouse, but Jesus is demanding to receive the same level of honour the Father receives. If you actually use your mind to understand this reasoning, you'll see Jesus claiming to be equally divine together with God the Father

@godhasgivenussalvationinth5223

4 жыл бұрын

no he didnt jesus is the mediator between god and men since god gave him all authorithy over heaven and earth and appointed him as a high priest (hebrew 7 and hebrew 5) replacing the sacrificial system from the leviticus priesthood of the old covenant (tabernacle) . 1 corinthians 15:24- 28 Then comes the end,[g] when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father, after he has destroyed every ruler and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For “God[h] has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is plain that this does not include the one who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to the one who put all things in subjection under him, so that God may be all in all.

@godhasgivenussalvationinth5223

4 жыл бұрын

hebrew 7:20-26 And it was not without an oath! Others became priests without any oath, 21 but he became a priest with an oath when God said to him: “The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind:‘You are a priest forever.’”[b]22 Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantor of a better covenant. 23 Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely[c] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

@godhasgivenussalvationinth5223

4 жыл бұрын

@@swissapologetics 1 corinthians 11:3 But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God no need to go to far to expose you guys...

@godhasgivenussalvationinth5223

4 жыл бұрын

@@swissapologetics genesis 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, hebrew 1:1-2 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

@godhasgivenussalvationinth5223

4 жыл бұрын

@@swissapologetics agree YHWH is infinite and is spirit YHWH is an infinite force. while the spirit of YHWH was flooding through christ, christ was creating all things by himself so christ made all things and god made all thigs through christ. christ is one in spirit with YHWH but YHWH has authorithy over christ. christ now in heaven is the only way to YHWH

I love the unity among the christian apologists. I just found out about Jay from David Wood and Christian Prince. Bro you're brilliant! Stay blessed!

@gewargisgeorgios8186

4 жыл бұрын

You found out about Jay from Christian Prince Debates (CPD). It's run by a Christian brother named Ben. He had uploaded the debate on CPD.

@LB_die_Kaapie

3 жыл бұрын

Idk about unity. Jay hates us Catholics smh ah well at least he won against the muhamadan

@nuzzi6620

3 жыл бұрын

@@LB_die_Kaapie When has he ever demonstrated hatred toward Catholics? He’s only demonstrated that the Western Catholic position is schismatic and heretical. And Protestants, in the same regard, are nearly out of the question. No hatred, but rather a zealous love of truth, perhaps?

@RealDukeOfEarl

3 жыл бұрын

@@LB_die_Kaapie Jay doesn't hate Catholics. He's constantly attacked by a certain clique of RC e-celebs who are literally melting down because of the number of trads Jay has been converting to Holy Orthodoxy, of which I am one.

Jay, continues to be the undefeated champion! KRISTOS ANESTI! ☦☝️

@josse9867

4 жыл бұрын

Alexandrian Orthodox Christian Channel want to retake Constantinople together?🥺

@DaSkyBlue

4 жыл бұрын

ALITHOS ANESTI

@yel69owstreams59

Жыл бұрын

@@josse9867 wonder when thats going to happen

@peterathanasiou4608

8 ай бұрын

Although o kurios

Brilliant performance once again Jay Glory to the Father and to The Son and to the Holy Spirit.

Good work Jay, Shabir towards the end seemed like he started to have doubts and becoming interested in learning more. That’s the goal☦️

@mjramirez6008

4 жыл бұрын

just a trick to seem humble and eager

One cannot be the perfection of love. Two cannot escape the trap of mutual obsession. Three is the perfection of love. (Fr. Staniloae). God is love. God is Triune.

This debate is a textbook, especially because is an Orthodox point of view. Thank you Jay, Lord bless you, I'm glad you did this on the day of the Descent of the Holy Spirit.

This wasn't a debate. This was a slaughter. Glory to Christ Jesus our true God, who hast thus been well-pleased, all glory be to Him. Well done yet again, Jay.

@user-nb9xi5lb2s

4 жыл бұрын

@@Sami-bs1go The Holy Trinity.

@tylerpierce2041

4 жыл бұрын

sami sami Matthew 3:16 Matthew 12:28 Matthew 28:19 Luke 3:22 John 14:26 John 15:26 Acts 1:4 Acts 2:33 Acts 10:38 Romans 1:4 Romans 8:9 1 Corinthians 6:11 2 Corinthians 13:14 Galatians 4:6 This isn’t even a handprint on the amount of times a Triune God is implied in the Bible. Also keep in mind that not everything has to be in the Bible. We aren’t Protestants buddy.

@tylerpierce2041

4 жыл бұрын

sami sami Literally all those verses point to Jesus being God and the Trinity as well.

@tylerpierce2041

4 жыл бұрын

sami sami Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit - Matthew 28:19 Keep in mind we don’t need to get everything from the Bible. Church Tradition explains everything. Quit being small minded.

@tylerpierce2041

4 жыл бұрын

sami sami It’s clear you aren’t very coherent and just spread Islamic conspiracies everywhere and aren’t capable of having a proper theological conversation so I’m just going to stop replying.

Well, Mr. PHD., - You tried to put Jay in the corner, but you couldn't. - Stop using Taqiyya with us; by saying: "I'll learn from you, Jay". - Stop asking the same old question of muslims: "Who was running the world during the death of Jesus?". Does God has an office where He goes to work?!!! It's all written from the very beginning. - Stop giving the same example like others, of when Jesus said: Why are you calling me the Good. Jesus was not denying, but he was assuring the idea. - Stop asking the same old question of muslims: "How Jesus doesn't know when is the Judgment Day?". It has two explanations: 1. As the son of man, He doesn't know it. 2. As the Messiah, it's not under His responsibilities/authorities to announce it. - And in advance, we don't have four Bibles, but one, where each talked about The Messiah from a different angle; The King, The Teacher, The son on man ...etc. Jay, This is the first video that I watched of yours. It's been a pleasure to subscribe to your channel. You were great, especially the easy way you were answering, which showed your knowledge and confidence. May The Lord Jesus Christ bless you and yours, now and always my brother in Christ 🙏

Hi Jay, I recommend putting "Orthodox vs Islam" debate somewhere in the title. You'll get more views by that search, thats why.

Very well spoken debate Jay, you really did not miss a point there. God bless.

1:25:42 I love when Jay casually drops some serious theology and then adjusts his nerd glasses. Killing it!

Ali makes me sad...theres no way he cant see his beliefs are flawed...just become a Christian, man. When he was asking questions, he seemed like he was genuinely trying to learn and (hopefully) contemplating whether its the truth secretly lol Also Jay, great as always! You dont let him deflect!

@ChristosAnesti

2 жыл бұрын

He’s demonic bro he acts like he wants to but he just mocks it truly, watch on Sam shamoun channel of Shabir ally and his mocking of when God says why hast thou forsaken me you see a demon crystal clear

@tanyaandtheark

Жыл бұрын

Just looked it up for myself, he definitely looked and sounded possessed, like it had been waiting a long time to act that out in front of a crowd. He hides it well enough in these debates, seems agreeable etc but that video is disgusting.

@Cavirex

Жыл бұрын

​​​@@ChristosAnesti's even more demonic when you consider that he believes in swooning (that Jesus somehow survived the crucifiction). So he's not only mocking Our Lord but his quran and "prophet" as well. Let's pray for his soul

Shabir's ludicrous argument from the 2:01:52 minute; it's crass ignorance to ask "who rules the world while God is dead" after Jay explained the Trinity for an hour. It is clear that Islam has stereotyped arguments that they always use in any debate, regardless of the answers received.

@Gonicksomestuff

4 жыл бұрын

Yep, St. Athanasius says Christ sustained the cosmos even whilst on the cross.

@Tatiana-cp1fc

4 жыл бұрын

My exact thoughts. It seems he's just repeating his 'closing script' regardless of what is being said in the debate.

@eptanyosisevastyan170

4 жыл бұрын

@@zaccheusanton9470 True, if he had not done so, he would have been left without "unsolved problems" argument, which would have made him seem defeated in an obvious way.

So nice to have an Orthodox person explaining Christian dogma rather than the usual David Wood, Sam Shamoun, etc. who don't have a great grasp on theology. Hopefully Shabir's first encounter with actual Christian theology will cause him to change some of his assumptions.

@andrewheldt660

4 жыл бұрын

It is good to see Shabir interacting with others, although this was like a toddler debating a Phd holder! He unfortunately didn't come even close to understanding what Jay was saying, leave alone engage any of the arguments!

@ncfbyte

4 жыл бұрын

You think Sam Shamoun doesnt have a good grasp of theology?

@Kristradamus

4 жыл бұрын

@@ncfbyte Some of his christological statements have been a bit iffy in some debates I've seen (this is true of most protestants, to be fair), but he seems to be a keen and sincere student, and definitely going in the right direction.

@thehandofjibreel8756

4 жыл бұрын

@@Kristradamus My observation is that the Protestants are better at using the bible to defend the trinity while the Orthodox are better at using philosophy. There is a reason why jay Dyer respects Sam Shamoun. David Wood's specialty is to be on the _offensive_ against Islamic doctrines, not the defense of core Christian doctrine. As far as Islam is concerned, Jay Dyer will be taking notes while Sam and David lecture him on how to reap through Islam. You don't compare apples with oranges. They're all brothers with different gifts working for the one true God.

@geness9676

4 жыл бұрын

@@thehandofjibreel8756 👍👍👍👍

The debate is over starting at 1:05:00 with Jay's opening cross-examination and Muslim dr does not understand what is happening.

@HoodAssTrick

3 жыл бұрын

He’s a time stamp heroooo.. the stars in his eyes!

Shabir doesn't seem to realize that when he makes objections against the logical coherency of the Trinity, or the Incarnation, he does so on a particular basis. And when Jay proceeds to question said basis, Shabir goes to respond by "I don't need to answer that". Well, you do, because if your basis upon which you found your objections is wrong, then your objections are wrong. You can't simply presume that you have some infallible understanding of logical patterns of coherency and then judge everyone else's understanding without yours being judged.

@CCSPN

4 жыл бұрын

@@yavorangelov1601 Jesus is fully human

@CCSPN

4 жыл бұрын

@The Traffic We don't have dualism in our faith, God can manifest himself in a finitie temporal state without losing his infinity, thats why we have a distinction between his essence and energies

@essidmedamine8130

4 жыл бұрын

1+1+1=1 , very coherent indeed

@CCSPN

4 жыл бұрын

@@essidmedamine8130 1+1+1=3 but also 3 is a single number

@jxcess3891

4 жыл бұрын

@@essidmedamine8130 hafs kooran + warsh kooran + dooori kooran =? koorans 1+1+1=1 😂

It is really nice to See that God is raising Christian Apologists like Sir Jay Dyer... Excellent work Sir Jay Dyer, you did not allowed him to twist the point as he always does.... 👍👍👍👍

I have a huge smile on my face not because Shabir was faced with shock and awe , I was sure about that , what makes me really happy is the way Jay articulates his orthodox faith and our Lord's revelation , not only in terms of winning a debate but in bringing forth the beauty of our Triune God so much so that Shabir will next ask Jay to be his godfather ....God bless you Jay!

@shamounian

4 жыл бұрын

Will you be my godmother?

@manoflowmoralvalue1560

Жыл бұрын

@@shamounian Whats this comment 😅

@xenolegends7675

5 ай бұрын

​@@manoflowmoralvalue1560 noway thats the real sam

@alexogugua5198

4 ай бұрын

@@xenolegends7675bruh that’s so crazy 💀

This was basically a lecture. Not a debate by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, Shabir did seem sincere in his questions to Jay and his desire to learn. Unfortunately, this honesty was something he completely wrecked in his closing statement due to his hardened heart. He still has hope, though...What can I say about Jay...He was beastly! Keep humble Jay and keep destroying the demonic arguments

@rocoreb

4 жыл бұрын

@Fredrik Ruinfelt It is the latter. As it does for so many things, freemasonry appropriated and twisted the eastern Roman Empire's (Byzantium as it incorrectly became known) symbol. It is a rendition of the flag of the Eastern Roman Empire, variations of which you can also see in Orthodox Churches. God Bless.

I have the feeling that Shabir didnt understood the answers of jay in his cross examination

@voldibayizitunda2178

3 ай бұрын

😊

lmao notice the bait and switch with Ally. In his introduction he tries to appeal to the trinity being illogical, and when Jay refuted it, and turned the problem, showing how in Islam Absolute Divine Simplicity is incoherent and how the unity/multiplicity is a false dialectic (which Shabir somehow didn't understand with the 1 & 3 example), before going on to say he's not that philosophically versed to completely shutdown any further discussion concerning Logic and Philosophy... Until the end when we finalises with 'Logic is the thing Christians continue to struggle with' Wow just wow. Well done Jay.

@jxcess3891

4 жыл бұрын

@The Traffic abdoool tran-ny Are you slow in the head? He just mentioned it in his comment above and a buffoon like you questions him again, "what was Jay's best point?"!

@jxcess3891

4 жыл бұрын

@Meshari Your stonegod is not all knowing. He made a false prophesy in suar 8.65 that 20 mohemadans can take on 200 then changes his mind in the next verse. suar 8.65 O Prophet, urge the believers to battle. If there are among you twenty [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome a thousand of those who have disbelieved because they are a people who do not understand. suar 8.66 Now, Allah has lightened [the hardship] for you, and He knows that among you is weakness. So if there are from you one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you a thousand, they will overcome two thousand by permission of Allah. And Allah is with the steadfast.

@jxcess3891

4 жыл бұрын

@Meshari By the way, the answer to your question, "can God cease to exist?" is yes, God can cease to exist but he chooses not to. So there is no real contradiction. The contradiction actually exists in your head.

@jxcess3891

4 жыл бұрын

@Meshari You have just cooked up some bullshit that you heard on one of those silly dawah channels and have defined in your own head how things should work. What's this lame "law of non contradiction" that you made up? There are so many things that we as humans do not understand, simply because of our limited intellect. For example, scientists have still not figured out how "light" shows properties of both waves and particles. Read about the double slit experiment. And you want us to explain how divinity takes on flesh from a scientific perspective??? How dum-b can you get?! I can turn the tables on you and pose a similar theological question that you won't be able to answer just like shaggy ali in the video, and I could call it a contradiction in islame. For example, how do the thoughts of allah enter creation if allah doesn't enter creation? Are the thoughts of allah distinct from allah???

@thehandofjibreel8756

4 жыл бұрын

@The Traffic This position makes Islam extremely fragile because when we find contradictions in this "eternal word of Allah" or lame sciences in the Quran, Islam is instantly destroyed.

Jay knew Shabbir's tactics about running away from answering the question, I liked how he didn't allow Shabbir to use that tactic. BTW it's my first time listening to Jay but really enjoyed it. God bless!

I was glued to the screen when Dr Ally was asking questions of Jesus on the cross powerful stuff.

Dr. Shabir got obliterated in cross-exam

Very well explained the continuity of the priesthood, thank you Jay, may the Lord bless you!

Jay is the best

Shabir was invited to debate Christian Prince, but is apparently too busy

@DeltaShadowbanned

4 жыл бұрын

@Brother Samuel pff, nice try. I examined your list of yt subscriptions, and laugh at whom you will tolerate compared to CP.

@arsalenshamil4117

4 жыл бұрын

I wouldn't compare CP to Jay Dyer. The later is far more cultured and well mannered. Salam.

@DeltaShadowbanned

4 жыл бұрын

@@arsalenshamil4117 ...you just did

@jxcess3891

4 жыл бұрын

@Brother Samuel Filthy muhummud told mohemadans to bite the penis of their fathers It was narrated from Ubayy ibn Ka‘b that a man boasted in an ignorant manner of his tribal lineage, so he told him to bite his father’s male member, and he did not use a metaphor. The people looked askance at him, so he said to the people: I can see what you are thinking, and I can only say this: that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) instructed us: “If you hear someone boasting in an ignorant manner of his tribal lineage, then tell him to bite his father’s male member, and do not use a metaphor.” Narrated by Ahmad (35/157); classed as hasan by the commentators on al-Musnad. It was narrated from Ubayy (may Allah be pleased with him) that a man boasted of his tribal lineage, and Ubayy told him to bite his father’s male member, and they said: You were never given to obscene speech! He said: We were instructed to do that. Narrated by Ahmad (35/142); classed as hasan by the commentators on al-Musnad and as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami‘.

@jxcess3891

4 жыл бұрын

@Brother Samuel shias are better than sunnis

Awesome job, Jay.

JESUS CHRIST IS GOD ✝️ Shabir needs to accept Christ his savior and Jesus Christ will set him free from the cult of Islam.

@abdulqader1774

4 жыл бұрын

Nope

@jeremiahpillay6219

4 жыл бұрын

@@abdulqader1774 600 years. 600 years mate.

@abdulqader1774

4 жыл бұрын

@@jeremiahpillay6219 1300 years. 1300 years mate.

@jeremiahpillay6219

4 жыл бұрын

@@abdulqader1774 exactly. And that is why ur cult is still stuck in the stone age.

@abdulqader1774

4 жыл бұрын

@@jeremiahpillay6219 how?

Thank you for this informative debate. I'm a former Protestant, now a catechumen in the Orthodox Church. Always interesting to learn more about Islam and the main points of contention (i.e. incarnation, Arianism). Just to note, the Old Testament in Hebrew refers to God in both the singular and in the plural. Although it does not specifically identify 3 persons, it does use the word for God: "El" (singular) and "Elohim" (plural), thereby demonstrating no dichotomy between the one and the many. Singularity and multiplicity is not in contention, and this Hebrew language "El" and "Elohim" in the Old Testament clearly demonstrates this.

@noelyanes2455

3 жыл бұрын

Become a catholic

@xpictos777

3 жыл бұрын

@@noelyanes2455 Definitely stick with Orthodoxy. The only ones left to say and believe the original Creed :)

@noelyanes2455

3 жыл бұрын

@@xpictos777 no they don’t because they original creed formulated at the council of Nicaea is not the creed recited by the east today. Catholicism is older than Eastern Orthodoxy.

@vros14

2 жыл бұрын

@@noelyanes2455 He is, he's just not becoming a papal catholic. The Orthodox Catholic Church.

@noelyanes2455

2 жыл бұрын

@@vros14 your religion is nether catholic nor orthodox, nor even a church. Jesus did not intend for the church to be ruled by the state and structured like the Lutheran church.

Jay is the best debater I’ve ever seen

@drytool

4 жыл бұрын

He really is! Dr. Ally is obviously really smart, and Jay totally handles him, like he does everybody.

Can’t believe this absolute legend follows me on Twitter😳 Glory to God☦️

This muslim dude got his logic destroyed. He couldnt even listen to the questions well enough to answer them, and instead gave answers to questions which werent asked. And then complained about "rules" when he was called out on it. Dude lost so hard.

Great debate Jay!! I am now starting to get back into the study of christ and logos after many years of being away. I can say that you are the one who sparked the fire in me. I am eternally grateful, ty

I love how jay always answers straight forward and doesn’t beat around the bush.

Jay: q Ali: I can't answer the q Jay: why not? Ali: coz I don't understand half of what you said, and the other half is Latin and Greek to me! Jay: okay, let me simplify... Ali: Stop interrupting me!

@Khaledf

4 жыл бұрын

*Not sure about Jay's point! It's obviously irrelevent.* *First,* I am familiar with his argument, which is based on a gross misunderstanding of muslims' theology about Quran. Basically he's trying to say if you(muslims) believe that Quran is the word of God, then you would have somehow another identity beside God! This is so silly. Attributes of God are not separate identities beside God, and they don't negate the oneness of God. For example, if one person came to me and spoke with me, then I wrote down what he said to me, *how on earth would that negate the fact that person is one?* Was this "the philosophical expertise" he's trying to apply to tell us that Trinity is coherent logically!! 🙃 *Second,* Shabir refuted Jay brilliantlly simply by pointing to the Torah. And by pointing to the words of Jesus himself( attributs of Jesus himself.) Not sure why he's complaining then about Shabir Ally that he did not want to answer.🤷🏻‍♂️ Moreover, Jay himself muted this very "argument" which came out of his "expertise" in philosophy by denying that attributes of God are identities beside God when Shabir asked him about the seven spirits, so basically agrred with Shabir eventually. Notice that the context where these spirits got mentioned doesn't help him with the meanings he gave(energy.) However, the point here is the attributes of God are not separate identities, so not sure what's exactly his objection to Shabir? 🤷🏻‍♂️

@kr8962

4 жыл бұрын

@@Khaledf where is the blood covenant in islam?? continuity? ??

@Khaledf

4 жыл бұрын

@@kr8962 The most important teaching according to Moses & Jesus is ( listen Isreal The Lord is our God, The lord is *ONE* ). Islam is a continuation for that. It is not trinity. However, the question is irrelevent. The subject was not about Islam. 🤷🏻‍♂️

@kr8962

4 жыл бұрын

@@Khaledf God is not ur God without the covenant. read the bible.

@Khaledf

4 жыл бұрын

@@kr8962 Oh boy, the one who broke the covenant is you because for you the covenant leads to death, so that's why the father sent his son to release you from the defect covenant! " _For if that first covenant had been _*_without fault_*_ , no place would have been sought for a second_ " Hebrew 8:7 This is what christianity is all about!🙃 Then the new idea for what word *one* means. Where's the continuation in your religion exactly? Whom you're kidding?🤷🏻‍♂️

Wow I THOROUGHLY enjoyed this debate! And I learned so so much! I just chanced upon you Today but I am impressed enough to stay

You were flowing, answering every question instantly. Very impressive.

Note the difference in Jay's willingness to genuinely engage with Shabir's interrogation and answer his questions directly.

This is really great, your guest is a noted Muslim theological thinker of the hanafee school, so it was really great to see two minds debating.

Very educational and very "catechetical" at the same time. Thanks, Jay. Only Orthodoxy guards the Essence/Energy distinction properly which gives coherent world-view and possibility of knowledge. Appreciate your labor, Jay! Keep up!

Lol jay that whiteboard, we love you but you take boomer tech to another level!

@genzphilosophy5706

4 жыл бұрын

Borrowed from Nicholas J Fuentes

@kyrieeleison5701

4 жыл бұрын

i thought that was funny but humble lol love jay

@RealDukeOfEarl

4 жыл бұрын

Jay was whiteboarding it yonks earlier that Fuentes. And don't get me started on post-it's.

Greeting Jay Dyer....shalom from Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, Malaysia.

Re-watching, this is what made me interested in Orthodoxy.

Shabir was so out of his depth and badly defeated here, that he went on a loop during his cross examination and closing statement.

The 2nd cross examination by Jay was an absolute takedown! Nicely done Jay!

This was great! Please debate Mohammed Hijab

Sir you're awesome👍👏😊. Shabir is good man too just in the wrong way. Pray that his soul gets saved

With only months worth of knowledge of Islam, Jay managed to demolish one of the best Islam debaters in the world.

@meftihegirma1160

4 жыл бұрын

Amazing Job Jay

@hs-hs-hs

4 жыл бұрын

One of the best... Really? The first I've heard of him.

@Khaledf

4 жыл бұрын

How exactly? *Not sure about Jay's point! It's obviously irrelevent.* *First,* I am familiar with his argument, which is based on a gross misunderstanding of muslims' theology about Quran. Basically he's trying to say if you(muslims) believe that Quran is the word of God, then you would have somehow another identity beside God! This is so silly. Attributes of God are not separate identities beside God, and they don't negate the oneness of God. For example, if one person came to me and spoke with me, then I wrote down what he said to me, *how on earth that woould negate the fact that person is one?* Was this "the philosophical expertise" he's trying to apply to tell us that Trinity is coherent logically!! 🙃 *Second,* Shabir refuted Jay brilliantlly simply by pointing to the Torah. And by pointing to the words of Jesus himself( attributs of Jesus himself.) Not sure why he's complaining then about Shabir Ally that he did not want to answer.🤷🏻‍♂️ Moreover, Jay himself muted this very "argument" which came out of your "expertise" in philosophy by denying that attributes of God are identities beside God when Shabir asked you about the seven spirits, so basically agrred with Shabir eventually. Notice that the context where these spirits got mentioned doesn't help him with the meanings he gave(energy.) However, the point here is the attributes of God are not separate identities, so not sure what's exactly his objection to Shabir? 🤷🏻‍♂️

@Khaledf

4 жыл бұрын

@Ναζωραῖος Yeah like one man 100% is God, yet he is 100% human is really not nonsense.

@emperordavid2044

4 жыл бұрын

@@Khaledf did you actually finish the video or did you pick and choose what you think will help that your writer up🤔

Shabbir was being dishonest when he was beating around the bush when asked about the eternal nature of the Qur'an, vs how Christians view their scripture. He was adopting the Islamic mutahezalite heresy just to get himself out of a tight spot.

Please more debates like this one. Also debate with Adnan Rashid. It’s about time to destroy fake religion of Islam. We need more people out like Jay, D Wood, J Smith, Sam Shamoun, Christian prince, Rob Christian and list goes on. Jesus is Lord God ✝️ the way the truth the life.

@williamjames4031

4 жыл бұрын

@Keysar Efes is he a youtuber?

@stargategoku

3 жыл бұрын

Anthony Rogers is one of the destroyer of islam and good defender of TRINITY from old and new testament

After watching this debate, James White will easily side with Shabir since they both share the ADS doctrine.

@rocoreb

4 жыл бұрын

lolol good one.

@thededohasani3830

4 жыл бұрын

@@rocoreb does Shabir profess belief in ADS tho? That's not the standard Islamic position 😳😳

@rocoreb

4 жыл бұрын

@Meshari absolute divine simplicity

Lol Jay smacked Shabir especially in the cross examination

Shared on Facebook and what's aap. God bless you Jay Dyer 🙏🙏🙏😊😎!!

Great job Jay

Great job Jay! *Subscribed*

This was an easy win for Jay. Shabir should humble himself and learn from Jay if in fact he was genuinely questioning to clear his doubts.

@milly9366

4 жыл бұрын

He wasn't...still to proud to accept that Jesus is Lord and God even though the evidence is so clear and his logic concerning the Bible and even his book are very shallow. God has a way of rubbishing arguments of those who deny Him! Let's pray for him. That God will soon open his eyes and heart. That the evidence will be too overwhelming to compel him to accept the Messiah!!

@Khaledf

4 жыл бұрын

*Not sure about Jay's point! It's obviously irrelevent.* *First,* I am familiar with his argument, which is based on a gross misunderstanding of muslims' theology about Quran. Basically he's trying to say if you(muslims) believe that Quran is the word of God, then you would have somehow another identity beside God! This is so silly. Attributes of God are not separate identities beside God, and they don't negate the oneness of God. For example, if one person came to me and spoke with me, then I wrote down what he said to me, *how on earth that woould negate the fact that person is one?* Was this "the philosophical expertise" he's trying to apply to tell us that Trinity is coherent logically!! 🙃 *Second,* Shabir refuted Jay brilliantlly simply by pointing to the Torah. And by pointing to the words of Jesus himself( attributs of Jesus himself.) Not sure why he's complaining then about Shabir Ally that he did not want to answer.🤷🏻‍♂️ Moreover, Jay himself muted this very "argument" which came out of your "expertise" in philosophy by denying that attributes of God are identities beside God when Shabir asked you about the seven spirits, so basically agrred with Shabir eventually. Notice that the context where these spirits got mentioned doesn't help him with the meanings he gave(energy.) However, the point here is the attributes of God are not separate identities, so not sure what's exactly his objection to Shabir? 🤷🏻‍♂️

I think one of Doctor Shabir's weaknesses is his unfamiliarity with philosophy at least to the extent that Jay is learned in it. You cannot defend your theology without having a deep understanding of philosophical concepts and that's something I've noticed about Muslims. They focus too much on the theological doctrine and not enough on learning about philosophy like Christians do. I would love if you could invite Hamza Yusuf or Dr Tim Winter to a debate.

@bennyredpilled5455

4 жыл бұрын

Будет все тоже самое.

@DigoronKavkaz

4 жыл бұрын

@@bennyredpilled5455 Ja tak ne dumaju moj brat

@bennyredpilled5455

4 жыл бұрын

@@DigoronKavkaz почему

@alwaystoyou123

4 жыл бұрын

@@bennyredpilled5455 Do not think so. I am not native English speaker but a number of Muslim scholars have dealt with such questions for a long time. You can watch Dr. Omar Farooq Abdullah. Or Timothy Winter regarding all these questions. Pomoemu vi oshibayetis

@alwaystoyou123

4 жыл бұрын

@Cult Mechanicus you can check Andalusian Project on youtube. He focuses on philosophy too.

Wow,great job brother Jay👏

When the light of Jesus is always shining down you. Amen!

Tnx again, Grasshopper! I always learn something each time I listen. Glory to God!!!

Don't want to sound mean but I think Shabir was more confused after Jay's objections not because Jay did not know how to answer or what to ask but because Shabirs brain isnt used to such a pressure :D Good Job Jay.

Astonishing! Let the LORD bless you abundantly. I subscribe to your channel because you're a blessing. From Gabon.

Jay finally slaughter this liar? For years he has been running from Christian Prince... Now he fell for Jay's trap... hurray... Jesus Christ is Lord...I love you Jesus

@oluwaseun2929

4 жыл бұрын

@kudo hahhaahahahahahaha hahhahaha everyone knew that Farat is making fool of his followers... I'm sure you saw how David Wood ended his fresh career.. and he was even invited by David Wood for online debate.. but your Farat will never show for the debate because he is only good for editing videos... hahahaha....go back to your Farat kid

@obdios

3 жыл бұрын

Farid responds? More like farid leaks 😂😂😂

JAY is a heavyweight

Very impressive Jay. ☦️

I think Shabir Ally is a nice guy and open to learn

@gewargisgeorgios8186

4 жыл бұрын

Nah, that's just his MO. He is not genuine.

@fishouttawtr

3 жыл бұрын

Nope, he's totally hard hearted to the truth...the "genuine seeker" bit is just an act!

Jesus Christ Conquers

Oh maaan this is a disaster. Shabir oh maan, why did you even accept this debate. Well done Jay. God bless!!!

The real crux of this debate is during the cross questioning: the working of the Holy Spirit becomes evident: 2 Cor 10:4-5.

I wasn't interested in listening dr shabir answering questions because i knew he could only throw silly escape cards that don't address the issues and that his theology is equal to protestant gibberish, it was more interesting to listen him ask question and always get solid answer. It is like driving your car on railways against a train, you think you got this and then you meet reality.

Wow Jay excellent debate. Thank you . Dr Ally was lost and didn't want to be questioned very embarrassing for Muslims. This is what happens when you worship a fake God. The usual Muslims tricks didn't work here.

I am First time Here Jay God bless you

Jay is the man

first I underestimate you Jay, because you have no experience fighting with muslim apologists. but after I watched this debate, I believe the Holy Spirit is real, because you are schooling prof.shabir ally

Watching an Islamic Scholar appeal to historical continuity is hilarious.

This is awesome

Very well done Jay!

@SLVBULL

4 жыл бұрын

The truth will set you free. Orthodoxy is the one true church.

@williamjames4031

3 жыл бұрын

@@SLVBULL I am a secular protestant and I am proud of it.

@shiningdiamond5046

3 жыл бұрын

@@williamjames4031 Be proud of eternal torment

@williamjames4031

3 жыл бұрын

@@shiningdiamond5046 I am a Protestant and we will go to heaven and live with our God Jesus Christ. Orthodox, Catholics and others will also go to heaven. But, I consider purgatory to be a hersersy.

@briandenison2325

2 жыл бұрын

@@williamjames4031 As does the Orthodox Church, Purgatory is a Roman innovation

I am new Subscriber Mr ; Jay .. I really loved the way you spoke . Shabir is a Good person Compared to other Muslim Apologist . he also recently admitted There are different verbal dialects of Quran... I hope his soul to be saved and Make him courageous

@jamalkhan3708

4 жыл бұрын

May be that’s why he refused to answer some jays questions. He is very careful now to making more mistakes 😆

@RoarT19

4 жыл бұрын

@@jamalkhan3708 Yeah ,, Shabir knows Deep down He is lying But he is feared of his peoples Praises and mere seconds pleasure . He denies lord Jesus for these Filthy mortals , Sorry for that Mr; shabir

Fantastic debate

Shabbir clearly does not know the purpose of the Tabernacle and its sacrificial system that points to Jesus the living Tabernacle. Also no knowledge of the Body, Soul and Spirit which also is depicted in the Tabernacle of Moses.