Fun fact: Bobby Prince is an attorney. It's why they were never sued over the soundtrack. He probably knew how far he can push it.

@SirSilicon

3 жыл бұрын

I came down here to comment this : ) I'm also very sure that every single slash metal musician in this time was honored to see his songs ripped off in these awesome games

@ChaseMC215

3 жыл бұрын

He's also sueing Gearbox Software over music royalties for Duke Nukem 3D 20th Anniversary World Tour

@SpunkMayo

3 жыл бұрын

@@ChaseMC215 good, fuck Gearbox

@nfwrambo

3 жыл бұрын

Fun fact: that’s actually not true, those were placeholder tracks he sent to ID that they decided to keep in the game, he even warned them that they were probably going to get sued if they used them

@BeersAndBeatsPDX

3 жыл бұрын

There's no clear line on what's too far. It's up to the jury to decide and there's no way to predict the outcome.

Major legal nitpick: Copyrights DO expire after a certain amount of time. So DOOM will eventually become public domain. The current time for copyrights to expire in the US is 70 years after the creator(s) death(s). You can thank Disney for this insane expiration time.

@TYR1139

3 жыл бұрын

Would you like at that, here I was looking for another reason to hate disney and you gave it up so easily

@hrvojeantoniobusic3345

3 жыл бұрын

Well at least we can watch Buster Keaton movies for free...

@russelldoty2743

3 жыл бұрын

They'll most likely lobby to increase the copyright length when the one in their oldest works is about to expire, just as they have in the past.

@yeeoof1995

3 жыл бұрын

@@russelldoty2743 And when the copyright for Steamboat Willie is about to expire, no less...

@MondySpartan

3 жыл бұрын

Doom becomes public domain, Freedoom becomes no longer relevant...

The great thing about Doom's multiplayer is that they just decided they were gonna have it, but they hadn't really thought about how they were gonna actually do it, beyond just asking John Carmack if it would be doable. Doom's development was so slapdash on some points, it's great.

@QuasarEE

3 жыл бұрын

It also ended up being one of the last features to get worked on. The game's original release date of October had come and went before they had even finalized the details of how deathmatch would work.

Good video. I think frag is actually an older military term for friendly aggression. Like accidental friendly fire that kills allies. Like noob comes from New Blood, newb, noob. A vietnam era term for the new guys who get to walk point through the jungle and catch the hottest ones.

@ClassicDOOM

5 жыл бұрын

Yep, frag is an older term, but pretty new to games in '93.

@LoserHands

3 жыл бұрын

I think you're right on the money talking about Vietnam War terminology. "Frag" can fall into that category. I think it's part of a whole Predator-Commando-Rambo pastiche.

@0neDoomedSpaceMarine

3 жыл бұрын

IIRC frag comes from "fragging a commander", the alleged practice of using a fragmentation grenade to murder a superior officer, ostensibly one who had seriously wronged you or your entire company. The notion was that the use of a hand grenade like that would make forensics difficult, ergo the lack of finger prints and traceable ballistic characteristics. Whether or not any of this is true or not can be debated, particularly the idea of hand grenades being difficult to investigate (forensics can often be flaky, but sometimes also very precise), and I'd imagine that the DOD would probably start turning the entire company upside down if things like that were happening. Presumably this would have been during the Vietnam War, in which case quite a lot of convicted felons would end up being drafted, which had more than a few serious consequences.

@MondySpartan

3 жыл бұрын

Maybe we should start using that term again in FPSes, even the modern ones :)

@GameBoyyearsago

Жыл бұрын

@@MondySpartan Yeah We Should : )

Can confirm, I played Doom in 1993 with the mouse and arrow keys. I didn't start playing WASD + Mouse until I started getting much more into actually getting better at the game, and that was a game changer. I never used strafe when I was a kid....

@lambda-m1676

Жыл бұрын

how painful was it playing without strafing

@TheCarPassionChannel

Жыл бұрын

@@lambda-m1676 I cringe just thinking about it, and how "hard" I thought dodging projectiles was

@diddlenfiddle7311

Жыл бұрын

I seem to remember playing it the same way. I find it amazing that I never thought of seeing if there's more movement keys.

@TheCarPassionChannel

Жыл бұрын

@@diddlenfiddle7311 The way my dad thought me you "had" to strafe was using the "" keys, but ain't no way at 5 years old I was gonna be looking down at the keyboard to switch to the strafe keys when I was about to be a victim to a terrifying, single imp

@HexenStar

Жыл бұрын

I used to have a friend or a little brother to do the strafing for me in that setup. True story.

You hear the "No mouse" myth with Quake 1 as well... what are they smoking?

@mopeybloke

3 жыл бұрын

I heard you originally had to enable mouse support on Quake from the console. If that's true, it may be why.

@GoodmansGhost

3 жыл бұрын

@@mopeybloke Dwars made a video truly and well debunking this anti-mouse conspiracy theory just yesterday.

@mopeybloke

3 жыл бұрын

@@GoodmansGhost That was about Doom.

@Razumen

3 жыл бұрын

@@mopeybloke I believe that's true, mostly. You could use the mouse to turn, but you had to specifically enable vertical mouselook in the original Quake release.

@GoodmansGhost

3 жыл бұрын

@Splendid Back in those days you got something called a manual, commands were not magic.

Thanks for mentioning FreeDoom! That game has gotten a lot better in the few recent years when I did not play it. I have created a new teleport sound for the game, as the one they had wasn't that great.

Not only was Doom initially shipped with mouse support, so did Wolf3D. id was also telling people to use a mouse in Wolfenstein 3D. As for Doom being 2D, it's weird. There's a bunch of things that use 3d space, but then there's things like how monsters block movement and splash damage which use 2d collision. I'd almost categorize it as "2d plus height" because of how it treats the height axis so differently, mostly as a speed optimization.

@yusukeelric

3 жыл бұрын

It's 2.5D like Duke Nukem Manhattan project is 2.D. Only that Duke Manhattan is a 3d looking game that plays 2d. And Doom uses essentially an advanced two dimentional engine to pretend a 3d gameplay.

@noop9k

3 жыл бұрын

Somecooltoad Bullshit. Doom engine is a custom 3D engine that is designed to display scenes with some specific restrictions to reap massive performance benefits. For example, floor sector is a perfecty normal textured polygon, but required to be horizontal in 3D space relative to camera. If you port doom level into a “normal” 3D engine, set the same camera FOV and angles, don’t switch on texture filtering etc., then each pixel will be rendered basically at the same position. And Doom does its rendering with much greater precision than the hardware of its time, than Playstation or Saturn, which couldn’t even do perspective correction for textures. Even Quake does it selectively, unlike Doom where it is basically perfect. Forward texture mapping of Saturn and 3DO makes texture warping less pronounced but it is still there. And it imposes extra restrictions that make direct hardware-accelerated port of Doom unfeasible for these platforms. And when objects collide disregarding height, it is typically because the devs didn’t bother to add extra code and waste performance for that particular case because it would be basically useless. You can see similar constraints in newer polygonal games just because devs didn’t bother or specifically wanted infinite height walls, for example.

@AlexeiVoronin

3 жыл бұрын

Doom had mouse support, no doubt, but the thing is most people didn't use a mouse back in those years, and thus for many players the original Doom experience was with the keyboard. It's easy to believe that's how the game was meant to be played, if this was how you experienced it as a kid.

@SlavomirG

3 жыл бұрын

Doom is a 2D/3D hybrid. The first fully 3D one was Quake 1.

@De-M-oN

3 жыл бұрын

@@AlexeiVoronin The thing is, the mouse implementation is shit in doom. I dont want to move by moving my mouse. Who the fuck would want that? If it wouldve been possible to at least change it to look around only, then I would've used it back then already.

Dude, you rock. Thanks for fighting the good fight on debunking these, and you have an ally here. Cheers mate.

When my dad got Doom, he used a Joystick to control doom guy. Your whole bit about Doom 1 being easy is on point since we really didn't figure out strafing until much later since the genre was brand new, and we didn't exactly have great access to the internet in the mid 90's. Still, on Hurt Me Plenty, the joystick just felt right at the time. Many people had different ways of playing the game, I'm sure you'll find a guy who played with a controller somehow back in 93/94.

@xevious626

3 жыл бұрын

I started playing DOOM in 1995 with a Gravis Gamepad and still use one to play today.

@arcadeguy781

Жыл бұрын

@@xevious626 i used a joystick as well on our old computer.

@HexenStar

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely! A great gamepad was THE way to go. Right until the availability of the mouselook and optic mice. I used to buy MS Sidewinders religiously, just for the FPS games that were available at the time. Up until the years when MIDI ports for joysticks stopped being made. It was a 16-button perfection.

DOOM always had mouse control, but I just couldn't seem to circle-strafe with it, so I didn't use it in the earliest versions.

I played Duke Nukem 3D without a Mouse, because I was a noob and was an awful experience playing FPS

@crossed6577

3 жыл бұрын

i did that too, until i realized that the game has lots of hitscan enemies wich makes it very hard for keyboard only

@SlavomirG

3 жыл бұрын

@@crossed6577 back in the day everyone played Duke Nukem 3D keyboard only and the experience was great

@rodrigof.r.desouza3587

3 жыл бұрын

I first played DN3D with the keyboard only. It seems unplayable nowadays after you get used for KB+Mouse for years, but back then it was fine. Adding the mouse did actually help a lot, though.

@MondySpartan

3 жыл бұрын

If I’m correct, the shareware version of Duke 3D itself lacks mouse support.

@todesziege

3 ай бұрын

@@MondySpartan The initial 1.0 Duke 3D shareware _supports_ mouse, but not vertical aming with the mouse. Instead it works like the mouse support in Doom or Wolfenstein 3D -- you can use it to turn, strafe or move forward/backward -- but looking up/down has to be done with keyboard/buttons. Later shareware versions have "full" mouse aim support.

I remember as a kid playing purely with keyboard and being good at dodging projectiles somehow. And I never strafed. I kinda just moved back, turned, and moved forward and turned. Years later, I too learned after playing Counterstrike with WASD controls, that this was the way to play all along. I think the issue is look up/lookdown was not a thing. Moving forward/back with the mouse felt like some weird gimmick and I never realized how important it was for turning and strafing. I always thought, why would I play with the mouse when I can just use the keyboard. Moving forwards and backwards made no sense. It would've probably benefited the game to have that disabled by default and only have turning side to side. And I also always played FPS games on the easiest baby setting as a kid. Plutonia kicked my ass though. I couldn't make it past level 3 without cheats until I learned proper controls. It's funny though how later games added looking up/down by just moving your view up/down. DooM could've had full aim up/down all along, like Heretic and other games. Could've at least been an interesting addition to DooM 2.

@VaderTheWhite

3 жыл бұрын

It causes the graphics to warp a bit, which John Carmack hated

Depending on how you define deathmatch (or an FPS), MIDI Maze might have actually been the first deathmatch FPS, four years before Doom. Even the first FPS ever developed, Maze War, had PVP multiplayer.

6:00 "When you get your hands on a copy of Doom, it's hard not to just jump right in!" That's so true! I remember I first bought Doom on Steam around 2016 or so (I'm a zoomer who was too young to experience Doom back in its heyday). I was around 15 years old, I had experience with plenty of other shooters on PC including Half Life. I was used to more complicated and flashier games than Doom. You would think that I would be too young and sophisticated and spoiled by new tech to go through my settings and options instead of getting sucked in straight away in order to get the optimal retro experience, right? Hahaha, nope! I launched the game off of Steam straight away, only to notice the colors were all wrong. I googled for it, replaced the DOSBOX executable that comes with the Steam version with a newer one (instead of learning how sourceports work), and once again started the game, and I played straight from the beginning all the way to Episode 2 for a few hours on HMP difficulty. The game had me hooked! I stopped playing Doom after a few hours because it was a nice summer day outside and I wanted to go for a swim, and it was then that I thought, "Huh, I wonder if there's a patch for the game or something to fix the lousy misguided 'feature' where moving the mouse up and down moves Doomguy back and forth, since the game is pretty old and popular, so it likely has fixes for stuff like that". It was then that I discovered that installing the Chocolate Doom sourceport was actually easier and more convenient than playing through Dosbox while also solving my problem, and it got better performance on really old or non-X86 hardware (such as my Raspberry Pi) than Dosbox.

I think the "Doom is 2D" claim stems from the way the game's maps were laid out, in the sense there wasn't an accessible floor on top of another accessible floor, and in the sense that you could "hit-scan" shoot enemies from the top or from below regardless of your visual angle. Even then, projectiles function in 3D.

So to be clear the mouse myth has more to do w the fact that even tho the mouse was growing in popularity since the 1980s, it wouldn't become the essential periph that it is until about the 90s with the windows era.

DooM is just the gift that keeps on giving. I will never not watch a video about DooM. I’m glad that your channel showed up in my rec feed and was all too happy to subscribe as well. Cheers, mate!

@DoomKid

3 жыл бұрын

I’m glad to hear that!

Average "kills" fan vs Average "Frags" Enjoyer.

If we are going by the 'it is old so it must be abandonware' you would be abandonware, I would be abandonware, most people are abandonware

@user-rd1rf4mc7y

3 жыл бұрын

Can confirm, I am abandonware.

@MondySpartan

3 жыл бұрын

In the US, by the time you reach 70 years old, you’re considered abandonware.

7:00 Hmm I guess that explain why it was rather easy to add jumping by simply moving the player in z axis when you press the jump button in my port

Oh, another myth back in the days was that Doom is a raycaster. This was imho because, 1) It was a weird engine that is not 3d polygon based, so people had to categorize and that's the only thing they knew from before. 2) They knew Wolfenstein3D which does raycasting and then renders stretched wall columns, which is how Doom renders walls, however it doesn't use raycaster to decide which column and scale. 3) Even coders would misuse that term back then. There is a famous tutorial on how to do wolfenstein 3D back in the days, and in the prologue the author categorized various engine in raycast and raytrace. Raycast in his list had wolfenstein 3D but even Doom, raytrace had prerendered things like Myst or 7th guest. This was a bad categorization (raycast is even really the first step of raytracing, given a ray to see if it hits something)

@lev7509

3 жыл бұрын

DOOM and Quake both use Binary Space Partitioning to decide which wall is to be drawn. Quake uses planes (thus allowing arbitrarily-shaped geometry), DOOM uses lines, thus limiting each point on the top-down view to only correspond to *one* floor and ceiling height.

I actually play keyboard only, whenever I have no idea where my mouse is, and I lose it a lot.

@sovereignone1900

3 жыл бұрын

lol

Another piece of proof against the no mouse theory is that (as i discovered in the masters of doom) in the wolfenstein 3d manual, the surgeon (John Romero) recommends using the mouse and holding down forward and right shift to get the fastest level times.

@maxmeister747

2 жыл бұрын

I found it: "“John Romero, at this point in time, is the world’s best Wolfenstein player. His current record for getting through all of episode one in Bring ’Em On mode-five minutes, twenty seconds! That’s not going for anything but the shortest, fastest path to each elevator. We call him The Surgeon, after the way he surgically takes out guys and keeps going. He welcomes all challengers to his record. John’s advice: ‘Play with the mouse and keyboard and use the up arrow and right shift to run most of the time. Don’t sit and wait for the enemy to come-charge and lay waste to them before they know what hit ’em. There’s no room for wimps in World Class Wolfenstein play.

I used arrow keys til late 2018! Actually, until I hit Argent Tower for the first run in DOOM 2016. When I played Return to Castle Wolfenstein, my keyboard layout worked well to swap for things, but it still wasn’t optimal. After the first run of 2016, I switched to ESDF and have been going with it since!

@reloadpsi

4 жыл бұрын

I used to use ESDF too because of the little bump on the F key, but it made shift and tab and like harder to reach.

This is a cool video. Would you make more like this? There's probably a lot of other myths around Doom that could be debunked as well.

@DoomKid

5 жыл бұрын

Thank you, there are more myths out there so I’ll probably make a sequel soon!

@tixmctivy

2 жыл бұрын

I hope Doomkid does. I second it very cool video

About #3: I think that myth comes from Masters of Doom. There's a whole explanation in there for how the engine supposedly works. It's been a minute since I read it but something to the effect that the Doom engine is 2d but draws the map to appear 3D but only for your field of view, so as you're moving, the engine is rapidly drawing what you see, as opposed to something like the Quake engine where you're moving around in a true 3d environment.

@JeffreyPiatt

3 жыл бұрын

Doom was a enhanced version 9f the Wolfenstine 3D engine it used a improved raycasting rendering engine what doom removed was the limitations that wolfenstine had because they wrote the engine to render levels from TED the level editor used for Commander Keen. Basically it took a flat platformer map and drew the textures on to flat walls with 90° grid angles. Doom could draw from a 2d map but the drawn lines could be coded to tell the 2d image how high a wall was and what was a lift or teleporter. ID Tech 1 was a 2.5 D engine the limit was that you could not have a level over the floor just high platforms.

Good example of 3D graphics without 3D cards: Rally-Sport, a small rally game made to run as easily as possible on any system, without 3D cards. The game is fully 3D. It was 1996, when Quake hit the shelves, yes, but there was still market for these kinds of games, if your hardware was the less powerful kind.

I like your calm style. Enjoying your content. :)

I already knew the myths and what they really are but anyways Great job Doomkid!

Doomkid Great video man. The only myth that surprised me was number 4 but it sure is understandable. Merry Christmas.

I just found your channel, and In just 1 video you turned into one of my favorite channels!!!

@DoomKid

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks, glad to hear that!

I have always thought the three other marines in pre-release were intended to be AI controlled in single-player, but player controlled in multiplayer.

Thanks for making awesome doom videos doomkid!

Very cool video. Don't see a lot of videos from people who both care about what they're talking about AND bring something interesting to be shown like this anymore.

If a game has 6 cardinal directions of movement, it is 3D. So let's see, in Doom you can move forward, backward, left and right... but there are stairs and elevators, so you can also move up and down. So we have 6 possible directions of movement. Therefore, the game is 3D, clear and simple.

@De-M-oN

3 жыл бұрын

its not full 3D. Look how freelook works on the software renderer, the graphic doesnt stay in place. It is tilting because its still not real 3D you also cant have a room above another room. its rather like 2D + Height minus collision detection (because collision detection isnt 3D either (infinite height of actors and explosions)

@AlexeiVoronin

3 жыл бұрын

@@De-M-oN Okay, let's put it this way - the engine/renderer isn't real 3D, but the gameplay is 3D. Which means (ironically) that Wolf 3D isn't 3D at all :P

That deathmatch feature also boomed the internet at that time as workers were no longer allowed to play deathmatches during breaks times because of fearing that the whole network would get overloaded,hahaha.

seriously, where did you get this invaders must die midi? edit. never mind, I found dooming the charts

I've been playing Doom for nearly over 10 years now, I guess the isolated experience of me being a teenager in the late 2000s, early 2010s era discovering things like Doom through Sonic Robo Blast 2, yes seriously, lead me discover these truths naturally myself. I always kinda knew the game used a Mouse because I messed with it in DOS-Box for fun, and I knew enough about 3D engines that despite the geometry being drawn in a 2D top down view, the engine still renders it as a 3D space with full X Y Z requirements. Though sadly certain objects, especially monsters, having infinite height and the somewhat simple geometry probably have obscured this for others a little. Well that was a ramble.

@DoomKid

3 жыл бұрын

A good ramble!

@yusukeelric

3 жыл бұрын

Doom is a pseudo 3d space, try walking over enemies in Doom 2, (they kinda forgot about this because in Doom 1 it's almost impossible to find situations where you could walk over enemies) . But you will find you can't. Only attacks and hurt boxes are calculated with Z axis in mind, not enemies or the player. movement area.

@lev7509

3 жыл бұрын

@@yusukeelric I would say 3D but the engine doesn't always pay attention to Z.

This is the first video I’ve come across by you and I really enjoyed it and learned about my favorite FPS franchise that isn’t halo. Subscribed

Cool video, didn't mention though that mouse control was quite different than what we are used to today. Back in the times actually, I always played keyboard and never tried it for some reasons. Maybe because I couldn't think how a mouse can be used in such a game. But when I tried it much later (in the original Doom game), it wasn't the one we know, you would have to frantically thrust the mouse front to move, it was so clunky to play for me like this. To me, that's why some people I know still played keyboard only back then. It was only since Quake that I got used to mouse controls as we know them today.

@SpunkMayo

3 жыл бұрын

You can still use the keyboard normally while using the mouse to rotate your view in vanilla/DOS Doom.

@Optimus6128

3 жыл бұрын

@@SpunkMayo I tried it recently, the problem is that moving mouse forward will move player forward. What I mean,. I will setup WASD and mouse, trying to only go left/right with the mouse but it will capture the forward/back a bit and the player will oscillate irregularly in the forward/back direction, making this very awkward to play. I don't see a way to totally disable forward/back in mouse.

Doomkid looks exactly ehat i expected some guy with a bowser profile picture would look like

@DoomKid

5 ай бұрын

LMAO

7:25 wow, so Digressing and Sidequesting's video on Doom was spreading false information all along?

@ClassicDOOM

5 жыл бұрын

_Misunderstood_ information, maybe. Doom's world is way less complex than than those of Quake and many later FPSes; but the simulation of 3 spatial dimensions is still important in many aspects of the game.

@clorent

5 жыл бұрын

Yeha it 30D

@Optimus6128

5 жыл бұрын

Mostly there is a dissagreement on what means 3D and not. Today, when people talk about some older games with experimental engines that are not straight polygonal engines with 3d meshes, they tend to refer them as 2.5D. So someone had to categorize Doom (because the engine was weird and rendering was based on drawing 2d columns/spans, from top down 2D maps (which however do hide some 3D information)). But I disagree, as it achieves, just with different data structures, proper rendering of a 3D view/movement in 3d Space, just with limitations (not being able to look up and down, but corrected in Heretic, not having floors above floors) Just to add, a proof is that, modern doom ports which use 3D acceleration, are able to replace the rendering with 3d polygons, but they don't need to add new data for the maps. Just from the original maps, you can extract full 3D information (while the rooms were top down and vertices had X and Y only, the rooms were connected close polygons with extra information for floor/ceiling heights, so from those ones you could extract Z for the vertices, just equal on every corner of a sector, not sloped). No need to alter the level data to be able to render with real polygons, it's just that original Doom was rendering with a weird non polygon way that was more existing on the 2D screen space at times.

@SpunkMayo

3 жыл бұрын

@@ClassicDOOM spatial

@ClassicDOOM

3 жыл бұрын

@@SpunkMayo Spellcheck didn't flag _spacial,_ and some current online dictionaries still list it as a less-common variant of the word. But _spatial_ looks cooler anyway, so edit made. Chanks. ;)

Quick Factoid: The SNES/SFC port of Doom is *Mode7,* which is technically *_not 3D,_* but also *_not 2D._* It's in between the two. Of course, the engine used is completely different. I use a dualstick gamepad...like this half-busted wired X360 controller for FPS games. Yeah I know, I probably should try WASD+Mouse more often, but I'm used to holding a gamepad. WASD+Mouse feels about as awkward as holding a guitar controller left-handed...since I'm right-handed for most things...

Whoever decided that moving forward and backward could also be done with the mouse was fucking high.

Holy cow you're the host of Doomshack? For the past 11 years I've come across that multiple times. I suppose the world is indeed a small place!

@DoomKid

Жыл бұрын

Yep, definitely a small world!

Its amazing how so many myths about Doom being 2D persist when the source code is publically available! Literally anyone with any familiarity with code can confirm Doom operates within 3 dimensions within 2 minutes. Heck, just playing it for a few minutes will tell you. If Doom is 2D, how does gravity work when the player is able to run off a tall ledge and land on the other side of a wall that they otherwise can't pass at ground level?

@SlavomirG

3 жыл бұрын

Because the enemies are not 3D models. That's why the game is not considered 3D because it is not fully 3D.

@SpunkMayo

3 жыл бұрын

@@SlavomirG oh, well then let's consider any game with 2D backgrounds (to some extent almost every game ever made), 2D crowds in the audience (almost every sports title), 2D enemies/objects (Super Mario 64), or 2D characters (Paper Mario) to be two dimensional games, since we're arbitrarily selecting what makes a game "2D" or "3D" based on one small element.

@SlavomirG

3 жыл бұрын

@@SpunkMayo the same when you arbitrarily decide that the game should be considered fully 3D

@Clownacy

3 жыл бұрын

Idiots who don't know how to code love to pretend they know how games work.

@SlavomirG

3 жыл бұрын

@@Clownacy enlighten us then

Dude! I play wolf3D and Spear of Destiny with M&k. I switched to WSDX for DM because it was close to the main weapon keys. I even remember upgrading to a 9600 baud modem JUST so I could play with my neighbor across the street.

I love your videos alot,honestly I think you're the most underrated channel on KZread but you look like a metalhead caveman

I loaded 1993 Doom 0.99 from the idgames archive into DOSBox. The only multiplayer mode it had at the time was IPX. Dial-up and null-modem cable were not even availible yet.

@DoomKid

3 жыл бұрын

Interesting! Looks like serial mode multiplayer was added in v1.1, 6 days later. Modem/null-modem support wasn't seen until v1.2, from February 1994, about 2 months after 0.99's release. (1.2 was the version that saw the network code split into external "drivers", providing a modular network system.)

As far as I remember, we used Arrow keys and we didn't know about the WSAD keys until the first Delta Force came out in 1997 or 1998 don't remember exactly. It came with a Keyboard layout of movements using WSAD, weapons etc.

For myth #2, you gotta give some respekt for those people who stick with the keyboard though.

Man, when you see first alpha version of Doom with that weird hud and weird silver textures, it could easily ended up as another forgetable 90s shooter, but fortunately they managed to finish the game in to the timeless materpiece.

Nice Zappa poster. My dad saw him several times in Baltimore and Athens, GA.

@DoomKid

3 жыл бұрын

I’m jealous!

true: doom on dos. you can use a mouse to turn left and right. but an annoying thing (for me is) the mouse let you moves forward and backwards.if i'm playing doom on dos(box) i use the keyboard only but i use the left and right arrow keys to turn, the forward arrow to shoot, and i use the wasd to move forward and backwards and strafe.

@DoomKid

5 ай бұрын

There is a program called NOVERT.EXE to fix that mouse movement, if you'd like to try it some time

Even if it was true the keyboard only myth, i would still play with a mouse. Why? Because i f.... want to play with mouse and have fun... simple as that.

How did they host multiplayer back in the day? I don't see an option in the main menu.

@DoomKid

5 жыл бұрын

They connected using IPXsetup

Video from you? Must watch :D #2 is the one annoys me a lot because they just want an excuse to frown upon mouse users, for some reason. Talking about difficulty, back then, it's difficult for them to justify how difficult is good back then. They thought Nightmare! was joke difficulty and you're not supposed to beat the game with that, but now quite a lot of people enjoy playing on Nightmare! difficulty, including myself (sometimes).

@keiyakins

3 жыл бұрын

I mean Nightmare is intentionally Way Too Hard, it's just that some players are Way Too Good :p

I do remember that back when we had Doom '95 to play on Windows it already had a mouse option for the control (which I never used, played it keyboard-only). I only started using the KB+Mouse combination after playing Half-Life (which was obligatory there, basically) and then Unreal Tournament.

First thing i noticed was that reign in blood poster fkn sickk

"People have stopped using the term frag" Tf2 fandom:

I see a gamer bassist and I upvote! Rock on!

Hey, I tried to upload a wad file in your doomshack page but I got a blank screen with a "No file was received" message. Do you know how to solve the issue?

@DoomKid

Жыл бұрын

Is it still giving you this issue? (I have been having some troubles with Doomshack, the OS is in definite need of an update)

@brunosimini5061

Жыл бұрын

@@DoomKid Yeah, hope you can solve the issue, I have a few wads I would like to share :)

Jesus, back in the day I played through Wolf 3D, Doom and Duke 3D with just the keyboard, never knowing I could have had a much easier time by just enabling mouselook.

@sarpsarp8987

Жыл бұрын

I finished 3 episodes of Doom 1 and Doom 2 on Nightmare with keyboard only. I finished all 5 episodes of Duke Nukem 3D and 3 main expansion pack games on Damn, I am Good with keyboard only. I finished Quake 1 on Nightmare with keyboard only. I typed sv_aim 0 in Quake's console, then Quake's autoaim becomes like Doom and Duke 3D.

1:07 I wonder if people stopped saying "frag" in part because they realized it was also used in the U.S. military as slang for "to kill or wound (a fellow soldier or superior officer) deliberately with an explosive device"

@DoomKid

2 жыл бұрын

I think that was actually why they used it in the first place - I can't help but wonder if, after Quake's reign, people started to think the term was too specific, or possibly even too graphic?

@lafeeshmeister

2 жыл бұрын

@@DoomKid My thoughts exactly.

nice video

John Romero himself advised on using mouse for a freaking Wolfenstein 3D! And some people still talk about "keyboard-only" Doom.

1:18 "games more or less stopped using the term 'frag' and they started using the term 'kill'" Honestly I prefer more the term frag than kill for games when it comes to deathmatch.

Anyone knows what is that e2m1 remix in the middle of the video?

@DoomKid

3 жыл бұрын

That comes from the unreleased Doom MIDIs, it was an unused version of that song!

@p3dro824

3 жыл бұрын

@@DoomKid thanks dude

Turn fast monsters on and suddenly doom 1 isnt such a cakewalk anymore

@De-M-oN

3 жыл бұрын

except if you play on BFG Edition 😁

Is the first song used prodigy invaders must die?

@DoomKid

3 жыл бұрын

Good ear, you’re right

Ehhhh, #3 is debatable. I always tell people that Doom is "sorta 3D, sorta not." While it's true that certain aspects of the engine utilize the z-axis, in many cases it's merely an illusion. For example, in the original Doom engine, an impassable Thing has infinite height. You can't walk over or under it no matter how far above or below it you are. The z-axis does technically exist, but its usefulness is limited to rendering and determining projectile collision in combat. Likewise, Doomguy's hitbox is not used in calculating his movement in the z-axis. Rather, the calculation is done in one of two ways. If Doomguy is attempting to enter a sector with a higher floor than the sector he's leaving, the engine compares the floor height of the sector he's leaving to the floor height of the sector he's attempting to move into. If the result is 24 pixels or less, the movement is allowed; otherwise, it's blocked. On the other hand, if Doomguy is attempting to enter a sector with a lower floor that the sector he's leaving, the calculation is different. The engine compares the floor height of the sector he's leaving to the ceiling height of the sector he's attempting to enter. If the result is 48 pixels or more (48 pixels being the height of Doomguy), he's allowed to pass. In neither case is Doomguy's actual hitbox utilized, and the result is an unintended side-effect wherein it is possible to create a staircase that you can go up, but not down. Doom is, in many ways, an evolution of the Wolfenstein 3D engine, and as such, the rendering of Doom's environment utilizing a BSP (or binary space partition) is very much an evolution of the older, more limited raycasting technique used by Wolfenstein. Even so, the function of the BSP is limited to a 2D linked list of sectors, and thus it is not possible for the Doom environment to utilize the z-axis in a structural way (i.e. you cannot have a sector with more than one floor and one ceiling). So, I think the most fair assessment of Doom is that it isn't fully 3D, but does a great job of faking it for its time.

this video rocks

I know that there are 4 ways to play Doom in 2022 1) Keyboard 2) Keyboard & mouse 3) Controller/joystick 4) touchscreen I use option 3

I enjoy KB+M is nice but I have a custom keyboard only layout I use once and a while. left arrow look left right arrow look right front arrow forward back arrow back L-ctrl fire space interact L-shift run Z strafe left C or X strafe right

I know this song... But don't remember how it's called... Can somebody help me please?

@DoomKid

5 жыл бұрын

It’s Invaders Must Die by Prodigy

@AndroidFerret

5 жыл бұрын

@@DoomKid thanks.. I remember...

Don’t see link for online doom. Plz help I wanna play online co op

@DoomKid

2 жыл бұрын

Sorry, here it is kzread.info/dash/bejne/fZ55z86HepfVgbQ.html

epic pistol

@DoomKid

5 жыл бұрын

Clap get Facebook or something! Did you want to come to mine for a couple days this week? I could come get you guys Monday or Tuesday if ya want?

@clorent

5 жыл бұрын

@@DoomKid epic

Now can play the unofficial doom touch or delta touch port can play off on the phone and play online or host own lobby. I thought that was pretty neat and can add some wads/mods.

Doom's multiplayer was even outsourced by a ID (at least the network code was). It was to be written by another guy that just took their money. John Charmack wrote the network code in a hurry. It worked during their testing phase but would crash big networks due to it being quickly coded (basically spaghetti code)

8:03 While you are 100% correct in what you said it is worth to mention that John Romero at least said he does not really care that much about piracy, which has to do more with morals in this case at least.

Interesting, my questions are why would the start positions of 4 players be in the same room in a deathmatch, and why would they be the same colour.

@DoomKid

3 жыл бұрын

Those are cooperative starts, although in that same map you can find 4 DM starts too (in different rooms)

I always knew DooM supported mouse as played with setup.exe, that just I still keen to use keyboard if it's a vanilla-compatible WAD or port. And I am still sticked to DOSBox window, where mouse doesn't really work pretty good sometimes. All in all the cool video, but actually "freedoom is not licensed" is another myth. Being licensed after BSD, GPL or so is still being licensed. Also, this port instead of Romero's head has Stallman's

@makhauser42

3 жыл бұрын

To be honest, decided to try with a more modern port (still pretty Vanilla) - my eyes are not that good for DOSBox anymore. And gave the mouse with and w/o a freelook a try - the one I was avoiding for more than 25 years. It was worth it. Strange feelings, still keyboard is more common (25 years, of course it is), but is really fine

Wouldn't the high amount of keyboard-only players early on have to do with the fact that most PC users didn't have mice then because DOS didn't have a built-in graphical interface? Most people just used bare text-based DOS rather than OS/2, GEM, or early versions of Windows.

@DoomKid

2 жыл бұрын

That definitely would have been a big factor, but mice were becoming pretty common from 1993 onward. Windows alone accounted for about 1/3rd of the market share as of 1993, and it wasn't the only O/S that supported a mouse at the time, so I'd say about 1/3rd of Doomers of that era were playing on a PC with a mouse (and by 1995 onward it became a majority). But with that said, probably only about 10% of players were seemingly using the mouse (based on what I've read on old Doom sites and such), so I figure they were just skipping setup or winging it, and not realizing the mouse support was already there and working well.

Hey, what's the sourceport used for that inital deathmatch footage?

@DoomKid

4 жыл бұрын

That was on ZDaemon

@daviddeltoro1808

4 жыл бұрын

@@DoomKid Any recommendations for a vanilla source port with all the mod compatibility and features as gzdoom?

@DoomKid

4 жыл бұрын

David del Toro I don’t think there would be a vanilla port with all of those features. I know Odamex has full vanilla support and some basic ZDoom features, but it’s years and years behind GZDoom. The closest thing for multiplayer is probably Zandronum!

@De-M-oN

3 жыл бұрын

@@DoomKid Yes. Zandronum is currently the best port for multiplayer and we have great game modes by community for it like "All Out War 2", "ZDoom Wars" and many more.

Great video, great prodigy cover. 😘👌*chef's kiss*

@DoomKid

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed the cover and the vid :)

1:50 - Hmmm, if this is the December 1993 version of Doom, shouldn't there be a lonely stimpack in the inaccessible yard to the west? It also exists in version 1.1 and was finally removed in 1.2 (released in 1994). And there's also that secret corridor in the far right of the map. It was only added to the map in version 1.2 (1994) ;)

@DoomKid

3 жыл бұрын

Oh crap, I must have somehow loaded the 1.2 wad rather than the 0.99 one.. What a goof! Thankfully it has no impact on the actual points but good eye for noticing the wrong version of Hangar was used. Doh!

@AlexeiVoronin

3 жыл бұрын

@@DoomKid Indeed, 0.99 already had co-op and DM starts in its maps.

I think the Doom is 2d thing stemmed from the fact that all the ASSETS are 2D, but inhabit a 3D world.

Let's see. I started Dooming properly (!) in 2017-01-01 exactly if I recall, but I've tested DOSBox and Doom before that. Screw the keyboard only -thing, which sometimes is bundled with default keymappings - even though I use keyboard only, I've changed controls to my interesting button scheme from the start. Also, in the setup.exe, there's an option to start a network play session, even in the 0.99 Shareware, so yeah. And looking at that date I started Dooming (odd one, I know, but it's legit, I swear) one might ask, why didn't I do it the easy way and [INSERT SOURCEPORT HERE] - the way I see it, doing that would've given me the wrong imp-ression on how the game plays, it doesn't work like it did in 1993 exactly, and even when customizing stuff, there's still slight changes anyway. And that's the reason I recommend to start with MS-DOS with it's quirks and then if one must do that [SOURCEPORT GOES HERE] (I use other solutions for what doesn't work with DOSBox and with the "vanilla" executable), it makes one appreciate and actually see the progression that's happened over time. It's a bit like having three games that imp-rove, then they get [INSERT THE SWEARWORD CALLED REMAKE HERE] and they are made to be all the same, so each game has the same everyhing, making the progression not be there anymore. With originals, they feel different and the progression is there. One of the reasons I feel that old should stay old and if one wants new, one should just get that new [stuff], not change old stuff to be modern, there's things lost that way and one could might as well get that new stuff anyways. Mang what a rant again. In short, I use the "vanilla" exe to Doom, with keyboard, knowing the default mouse behaviour. And that's how it shall be.

@lev7509

3 жыл бұрын

I used to do it with DOSBox, and I was fine with it. Then switched to Chocolate (which is basically just DOOM, but all hardware access is replaced with modern OS calls). Then to Crispy. Why? Since it is basically Choc but I can toggle stuff on and off to adjust for requirements of a particular map. AND I can set my map editor to run it so I don't have to switch windows and go thru the menu.

The virgin " bUt dOom IsNt 3Dd eWw " vs the Chad Doom Kid

Even Wolf3d already had mouse support

The mouse issue need some elaboration. True, mouse was technically there, but there is an insane difference between playing Doom with a fully configurable modern sourceport, 30fps and up, - with a modern ultra-smooth laser mouse that has adjustable DPI to boot , - and playing in MS-DOS, where was no true mouselook, no adjustable mouse turn rate, very limited configuration (mouse: yes/no, lol presuming you installed it in DOS) - and do all that with a janky ball-mouse which you need to roll around like a toy car accelerator. Vroom-vroom, baby! Need i also remind that many FPS games that supported a mouse - had that awful control scheme where you press the LMB (or move mouse) to move forward, and you could not change this frankensteinery... There is no comparison between that, and what we have today. Those who have never tried it - are in for a rude awakening. While it was still better than keyboard-only, yet it was nowhere near(!) as smooth as a good...no - scratch that: a GREAT gamepad (old Microsoft Sidewinder comes to mind). Now that was a properly smooth sailing action. Of course, everything changed when the optical mice became widely available, making the frustration of playing with a caveman setup - obsolete. And, it would outshine the gamepad in the simultaneous x/y aiming as well. But as long as you only needed to aim via x-axis, and had that awful mangy rat in MS-DOS - nothing beat the gamepad in QOL. Not to mention the ludicrous comparisons to a modern hardware on a modern sourceport. That's like a dead donkey VS a 4x4.

@DoomKid

Жыл бұрын

I remember ball mice all too well, and honestly Doom's mouse support was well above and beyond most DOS games. It did indeed have a turning sensitivity slider in SETUP.exe, and all the highest-ranking players of the DWANGO era played using a mouse. Optical mice are FAR better - and like you say, most DOS games had garbage mouse support anyway, in DOS where mouse support was already not great - but Doom was an exception to most of these. I have an older computer running Windows95, I can exit to DOS and play Doom fairly comfortably with the old ball mouse. Of course, not as smooth as "modern" mice (post-2000, lmao) but if you had a decent one, still the best for competitive play. (Not to say that Sidewinders weren't also a great choice - they definitely were!)

@HexenStar

Жыл бұрын

@@DoomKid Ball mice and their so-called "support" - have effectively prevented me from properly enjoying a number of games that years later would become my top favorites. Yes, years. Yet what you call "fairly comfortable" - is only because by today you know "the Riddle of Steel"...pardon: the "Riddle of Strafe" lol :D You know that your movement keys should be locked to X/Y axis and you use the mouse to turn around. Not doing it the way the game suggests. That's why you might call it "fairly comfortable". Back then, my friends and i didn't know that, and would not discover it for quite a few years. Especially since the control scheme for FPS games on consoles was extremely comfortable, particularly on Sega Saturn & N64, resulting in the PC controls being a freakshow puzzle at the time. There was no way you could reach the default strafe keys by using the default controls, condemning yourself to a gaming death, unless you reconfigure - but that you had to know how, which most didn't. Only with the right scheme using the mouse made sense. Okay, it turns out - reasonable comfort can be achieved. I stand corrected, with some advice from a friend. He said:"disconnect the reasonable mouse and reconnect the worst, the oldest plain mouse you have, the kind that would drive you nuts if you had to do Photoshop work with. Then try Doom again". Funny, but it worked. Yes, with the right control scheme, it is fairly comfortable. Fairly :-) Still, it was a laser PS/2 mouse, haha. So, " The Riddle of Strafe" + Laser Mouse = fairly comfortable :D

This is awesome I had no idea how to explain the 3d thing also thought they released the source code. I must have mixed it up with something. Awesome vid bud I'm poor as shit too lol. But I did like it so subbed keep it up. "Jon Romero and John Carmack are gods" this comment also Tix Mctivy

So yeah, DOOM is 3D, just not polygonal 3D as we're used to

Abandonware? That's a comical rumour. Yes, the magic word that vastly increased my DOS collection and contributed to many of my positive teenage memories can conceivably be used to acquire Doom, but these days it's all too easy to just buy it. Multiple times if anyone is so inclined.

Abandonware isn't even just related to a game being old, it's also related to the game not being sold by the original company that owns it anymore. Did people just not realize DOOM and DOOM 2 were on Steam and GOG (and other stores, those are just the main two I use), or did that many people just genuinely believe that it was abandonware because it was old, regardless on who was still selling it? It's called "abandon"ware for a reason.

Зууууууууулин! Когда обзор на фаренгейт? ))

Dangerous Dave in DOOM is Freeware

The keyboard-only myth does have a kernel of truth to it in that the majority of computer users back in 1993-1994 didn't have a mouse or didn't know how to use one or weren't used to using it for action games. As such, most Doom players back then were playing with keyboard only, there's even a survey from March 1994 confirming that: www.trilobite.org/doom/d_survey1.html

@De-M-oN

3 жыл бұрын

You move with your mouse by moving your mouse and you couldnt disable that. That totally prevented me to use it

As far as multiplayer goes, if I recall correctly, in Masters of Doom, it’s stated that they wanted to do Multiplayer but Carmack was unsure if he could make it work originally. So yes it was planned from the beginning but wasn’t implemented as early as you’re implying here. Maybe I’m misunderstanding your implication but it seemed to me like you think it was implemented a bit earlier than it actually was. Not a huge issue, just a slight correction. I hadn’t thought about projectiles when discussing the whole Doom is 2D/3D debate. Assuming you’re right about it actually being 3D, despite that 3D environments weren’t possible on PC until Carmack wrote the Quake engine (which is likely where this rumor spawns from), the game has an aspect of 3 dimensions. That said, why is it that, in non-source ports, monsters are infinitely tall and you can’t jump over them if characters are 3D?

@DoomKid

3 жыл бұрын

I’m guessing id just didn’t know what to do if two solid objects tried to land on one another so they specifically programmed the game to avoid it happening. As further proof of the existence of the Z axis, you can make a map with a hole with an item down in the hole. If you run over the hole without jumping in, you won’t pick up the item because your Z coordinates are higher than that of the item. I’ve also heard that too many solid objects occupying the same X and Y coordinates might have put too much strain on computers of Doom’s era.

@lev7509

3 жыл бұрын

​@@DoomKid Don't know why that would be the case. 20 pinky's bumping against each other in a pit where they can't get to you is handled well, so processing collisions vertically shouldn't be a big deal. Unless a crazy WADder spams an entire room with monsters on all three axes, but vanilla wasn't supposed to handle that anyways.