Mentioned by others, in addition to optical and RCA/coax/cinch digital outs, HDMI is another digital out option and can easily be converted without loss to optical or coax with low cost HDMI "digital audio extractors" Also as you mention, part of the fun of collecting disc players (CD, DVD or BluRay) is listening to their analog outs for differences in their DACs and analog output stages. SOme vintage disc players have very nice sounding analog outs and vintage DAC chips not made any longer IMO, no different than vinyl fans trying different turntables, carts and phono preamps

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

I agree with you on it being the same as vinyl fans swapping out cartridges to get different sound! I notice better digital performance when upgrading my DACs in the same way analog performance improved with a better cartridge.

@robertjermantowicz-uw3iw

10 ай бұрын

I collect and use old CD players. I have never noticed a difference in sound quality between any of them. No matter if they use ladder-tyoe DAC chips like the Philips TDA-1541 or the newer Bit Stream chips from ESS.

I did some blind tests on my friends, schiit modi vs Internal DAC of a vintage JVC Cd player. Result: nobody was able to differentiate one from the other.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Very interesting!

@KeltyVince

Жыл бұрын

Just to say, the result of such a listening test will depend heavily on the amplifier and speaker combination, and how revealing they are, trying your test on a very resolving/revealing amp and speaker combination will allow you to hear differences that a less resolving/revealing combination just won't allow you to notice, the chances are high that it is for that reason you didn't really notice a difference between them, believe me when I say that through the right speaker and amp combination, you really will notice a difference, the only thing about having such a revealing speaker amp combination is that it will also show up the flaws in the recordings you listen too, as well as the difference in the source component, some will sound way better but some can sound way worse.

@SteveHartmanVideos

Жыл бұрын

I’ve done the same tests and the only time I’ve been able to tell a difference is when I’m wearing my expensive $500 headphones and thousand dollar headphone DAC amp otherwise for normal listening around the house on regular speakers it all sounds the same. I think the reason there’s so much controversy about this is because it really could go both ways… If you’re really looking for that critical ear listening experienced and yes it makes a difference but otherwise it doesn’t really matter for the average listener.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Agree. So much depends on the receiver, speakers, quality of recordings, etc, that it’s hard to make a general statement that others will not hear a difference on their system when using an external DAC. That is what makes this all so much fun for me lol. Thanks for the comment!

@MrSonofsonof

Жыл бұрын

Audiophilia - where science meets religion, and religion usually wins. And just like religion, it'll end up costing a ton of money and lead to never-ending arguments that never reach any satisfactory conclusion.

When buying a used DVD/BluRay player, check if it has the most recent firmware installed. In many cases it's still available for download on manufacturer's website. Also check if there are functions protected by a password set by previous owner.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Great advice thank you

@jdw715

Жыл бұрын

@@ForeverAnalog Actually, you don't always want the latest firmware. You might get Cinevia and/or lose SACD-R playback.

I never stopped buying CDs. Bugger messing around with modern vinyl records.

@MyDude63

Жыл бұрын

me too i dont have room for records

@stephencallil6512

10 ай бұрын

And records are about 2/3 times dearer@@MyDude63

@Unfunny_Username_389

4 ай бұрын

yep - they are basically CDs pressed to vinyl records. You're paying £35 for wow, flutter, surface noise and storage problems. An absolute bargain.

@russellnewton6660

2 ай бұрын

I use cd, vinyl and stream.

Hmmm... I do agree with you on being able to upgrade but the specs on that Denon are Signal to Noise Ratio · 103dB ; Total harmonic distortion · 0.004%. The DAC is pretty good, so if you find an old Denon, Yamaha or equiv for a good price, it may be worth the pickup. I can tell you the older Yamaha S BIT DACs are phenominal.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Yep. Part of the fun is picking up different players to listen to and hear how they sound, upgraded or not! Thanks for watching.

@geraldford6409

Жыл бұрын

Specific model numbers/years for Yamaha S Bit DAC disc players?

@user-xg6zz8qs3q

9 ай бұрын

I recently picked up a refurbished Pioneer PD X88 from a "pro". It looks a lot like the Denon unit in the video. I am shocked at how loud the volume output is on the CD player. The volume knob on my Creek 4240 amp is at the lowest setting and it's still loud. I had to buy an RCA attenuator (it's still in shipping). And that RCA gizmo cost 1/2 the price of the CD player.

Digital output is definitely a welcome feature on a older CD player but IMHO what is even more important is the availability of reasonably priced replacement laser optical pickup units. I suggest always researching what pick up is in a particular CD player and whether replacements are easily available.

@ForeverAnalog

Ай бұрын

Great advice, thank you. I once bought a used player that died on me and the replacement laser was more expensive than buying a brand new unit lol!

This is a great video for newcomers to our hobby. I have been listening to Pink Floyd DSOTM since 1975 when I was in the Navy. It was an 8 track! Fast forward, I bought the vinyl, in 1985 I bought the CD and years later bought the MFSL gold CD and I thought this was the best sound ever. Recently I bought the Schiit Audio Modi 3 and used an older DVD player as a transport and I was blown away! I heard things on that CD that I had never heard before. I have heard that CD many many times and it was like a brand new experience for me! I'm listening to CDs constantly now that I'm retired.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

I always enjoy when I hear something new on an album I’ve listened to hundreds of times before!

@iwearLingerie

14 күн бұрын

😂🤣

Enjoyed the video , Great advice sir, I’ve been instructing many I know to do the same looking for such type disc players in the event they want to upgrade or even just utilize the DACs in modern current receivers 👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Awesome. Thank you for watching and the encouraging comment!

Let's keep things in perspective. These older CD players were perfectly sufficient in quality to convince the vast majority of people to shift from vinyl and cassettes to CDs throughout the late 80s, 90s and 00s. At best a change of DAC is a relatively subtle change in sound. Personally, the headphone output and physical transport controls on the CD player would be much more valuable to me in general use than the digital out on the Blu Ray.

@starker1971

Жыл бұрын

I have noticed when I use the optical output of my ASUS ROG Maximux z690 APEX into a SMSL m300 I get far better sound quality than when running from the 3.5mm output using the motherboard's DAC. I think this is why people do prefer the digital out options on any CD player. I agree that this shouldn't make a difference, but I cannot deny that it does.

@snapea

Жыл бұрын

@@starker1971 There's a few too many variables at play with computer audio to attribute the sound quality change to the DAC alone. In the digital domain your USB DAC should be getting a bit perfect stream of the source digital audio whereas the motherboard's is receiving data which has been through Windows' internal audio processing (resampling etc.). In the analogue domain you're then dealing with two different pre/headphone amplifiers before hearing the audio. That said, I'm not saying DACs can't or don't make a difference . What I am saying is that (unlike a computer) a component CD player is a specialist piece of audio gear designed for the sole purpose of producing high quality sound from CDs and usually they do achieve this sufficiently well to not need an external DAC.

@starker1971

Жыл бұрын

@@snapea CD specialist manufactured when ?? In my comparison Windows is producing the sound in both cases.

@snapea

Жыл бұрын

​@@starker1971 Do you have a CD player you're unhappy with the sound of? My oldest is 34 years old, newest is 5. I never feel any desire to forego their tactile controls and play CDs via my bluray player and DAC combo. YMMV of course.

@starker1971

Жыл бұрын

@@snapea I don't have a CD player I dislike enough to attempt the DAC bypass. I am using it with my computer. I like it primarily because I noticed the optical input from PC to Aiyima T9pro. I often use my PC for my hobby of comparing passive speakers. I run these on several ChiFi amps. When I am not gaming using the PC's built in 7.1 3.5mm outputs, I am in 2-channel. The separate DAC allows me to process PC's optical to a 3.5mm LR as input to all the amps. So now I don't have to worry about which Amp supports an optical or digital coaxial input. I have not done a good A-B comparison of an old CD RCA output with a digital interconnect. That isn't the reason I bought the separate DAC. I do wonder, if I am able to hear a difference between my PC and the SMSL, doesn't this suggest some improvement may be attained with updated DACs with older CD players ? This is not my focus right now and I don't claim any of this to be productive at all.

This is the one thing that realised just yesterday when I was looking get myself a vintage gear. Looking at all those CD players I noticed they rarely have S/PDIF and all DACs now have them. Great video, very specific :)

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for watching and the encouraging comment!

@1ring2rule3pigs

Жыл бұрын

That's because those outputs weren't offered on TRUE vintage gear. This video should have been titled: If you want to upgrade the DAC on a used CD player from the early 2000s.

@chrumczyk5494

Жыл бұрын

@@1ring2rule3pigs I was born in 1990, for me that stuff is vintage, stuff prior like 1970, 1980 is ancient :)

@Rr0gu3_5uture

Жыл бұрын

Around 1990 most decent CD players only had optical outs, this was mainly to output to MiniDisc recorders if I recall.

You don't need to have a cd player if you have a Blue ray DVD player. Just play your cds in the blue ray

So true ! Options are great to have and I fully agree with your opinion on this :- ) Nice point here !

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for watching!

Great video!

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

This is a good point, I will be considering a vacuum tube DAC in the future. Thanks for the vid.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Thank you. I’ve yet to hear a tube DAC but would love to listen to one in the future!

@nicevmax

Жыл бұрын

@@ForeverAnalog I have an older CD player no digital out, but have been running it through my vintage Fisher tube integrated amp. Have taken that offline to get restored so running through one of my 1970s receivers right now, CDs now do not sound as good. The bottom line is if you want really good sounding CDs run it through tubes. At least in my opinion. Also interested in that little bear amp and speaker switcher in your other video, love those meters.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

The One Little Bear has a been a fun addition to my system!

This is so interesting. Food for thought. Thank you.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for watching!

That is true and I have tested many CD players. Of course it is nice to have the possibility to go through a premium new DAC but like you say, I have been surprised positively many times by vintage DAC inside CD players especially from sony and rotel.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Awesome. I’ve heard great vintage DACs too. Thanks for the comment!

Great point!I agreea modern bluray player can beas efficient as those audiophile cd players

Yes I bought a nice used Pioneer from a local charity shop for $6. It has a digital out which I connected to a cheap KAGUSS DAC without appreciating exactly what I was doing, but I couldn’t believe how good long familiar CDs sounded. Same seems to be true of putting a modern DAC in my computer sourced and WIim streaming sources. Now I understanding why much better.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

It's always fun when we discover how to improve sound!

Something else to consider when looking at a Blu-ray or DVD player. Some of them only have HDMI out. You should avoid those and make sure you buy one that has analog outs Along with a digital out. That way you can use it with the belt in DAC if you want to.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Great point thank you!

@MarkoVukovic0

Жыл бұрын

Let's say my BD player is connected to my TV via HDMI, but the TV outputs via optical to an external DAC? Would I be correct in saying that the player then is also just sending the digital audio transport via the TV to the DAC, if that makes sense?

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

I’m more of a two channel stereo guy so I can’t speak with total certainty but I bet someone here will know for sure! Right now, I just lazily use a sound bar for TV audio lol.

@MarkoVukovic0

Жыл бұрын

@@ForeverAnalog lol, fair enough. I'm lazily using the Google TV OS on my TV to stream digital audio from e.g. Tidal. That outputs via an optical SPDIF into a cheapie FiiO D3 DAC which is hooked up via RCA to my 2 channel amp. My logic seems to think that as HDMI is digital, then the signal coming from the BD player would not be via its own DAC. 🤷‍♂️

@milesipka

Жыл бұрын

Another interesting thing to look for in an older model (or some newer models, you never know) is the RCA sockets. I personally hate Blu-Ray discs because I am not impressed with the HD quality (clear prints are one thing but HD really kills the atmosphere on some movies, just my view on things) and I like DVD quality better. I managed to create a setup using my DVD recorder and a broken but still functioning older model recorder and make a DVD copy of some of my Blu-Ray discs VCR-style (I use the same setup for ripping copy-protected DVDs I rent from the video stores years ago). The final product looks really nice and I could only do that thanks to my sister's Blu-Ray player with its RCA sockets. I also watch DVDs through my PS3 hooked up to an old Hitachi CRT TV through a VCR and I love that feeling of watching the kind of signals I spent my childhood on (actually it feels like I'm watching some personal cable TV station playing whatever I want)...

I got my first CD player in 1985 and I've been sold on CD's ever since. I have some CD's that are 40 years old now with thousands of plays and they still sound exactly the same way every time I have played them. 👍🏻😎

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Awesome!

@tommyK7282

Жыл бұрын

Yo

@maidsandmuses

Жыл бұрын

We are still in the extrapolation phase really, but estimated lifespan of properly stored pressed CDs (not recordable ones) is continuously being adjusted upward by the manufacturers. I think we are at an estimated 100-200 years now. In short, no-one really knows yet but they now do seem pretty sure that your CDs will outlive you at least... 😁

@tommyK7282

Жыл бұрын

CD's for the Win

@benwu7980

8 ай бұрын

@@maidsandmuses I've certainly had a few old cd-r / cd-rw's break down over the years, and fairly randomly. Have only had a very small amount of proper cd's bought early 1990's deteriorate, and mostly user error like leaving them on a windowsill for a long time. There was some large study started by the US Library of Congress some years ago that was looking into it scientifically, but apart from a few outliers like from some manufacturing plant in England where disks would 'bronze' over time, not quite sure how the results went.

One additional point; vintage CD players (say 20 years or older) almost certainly need their electrolytic capacitors replaced by new ones; they are electronic components that age (electrolyte dries out). This not only affects sound quality, but the higher ESR (equivalent series resistance) of old dried-out caps used in the servo circuitry for the transport can cause both focusing and tracking issues (skipping). Often the laser is blamed for this but semiconductor lasers are _very_ robust and rarely fail unless someone has increased the laser current in a misguided attempt to get a skipping player working again. Once re-capped, the older Marantz & Philips players with the radial arm transport mechanisms (CDM-1, CDM-4) are one of the most reliable vintage transports to get.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Great point, thank you.

I have three CD players in my setup in which are a Yamaha CD-n301, Sony CDP-591 and a Pioneer CLD-D780 laserdisc/CD combo player which have an optical digital output, this is the one I mainly play my CD collection because I heard from somewhere that laserdisc player is perfect for CD playback too.

Great explanation 👌 Thank you!

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

Good point. I did see another's recent video question future availability of good CD players, and recommended transports and DACs, ranging from a Cambridge as starter to much more expensive. Fine, if you can make it work for a lot of separates, or a digital focused 'simple' system. I cannot without changing almost everything I have. But I have a just got balanced headphones and a headphone amp-DAC (small and NO pre-line out) with several sources, including Denon DCD 1400 (from 1990) connected, which bypasses my vintage NAD integrated amp and speakers.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Nice! Thanks for watching!

I have a Pioneer SACD player. I've tested going into my receiver with the standard phono connection and a coaxial cable into the DAC of my receiver. Without a doubt, the audio quality is improved by using the newer DAC of my receiver. I don't care to debate what my ears or others hear. If you're satisfied with what you have, it's your time, space, and money. Enjoy the music 🎶

@ForeverAnalog

10 ай бұрын

Awesome! Thank you for sharing!

@user-zb9lv3gh8s

9 күн бұрын

If you're plugging your cd player into your phone I put, then I have no doubt literally any other hook up would sound better.

Just remember to to put your audio jacks in the correct mode in the player's menu system: *Bitstream* = sound through the HDMI *PCM* = sound through optical/coax

@ForeverAnalog

3 ай бұрын

Great advice thank you!

That external DAC might be better if you are using a very low end CD/DVD player, but there's a lot of very low end external DAC's on the market with a very attractive low price which is just wasting an extra step to get lower sound quality. If you have a high end receiver with a digital input, you may as well go direct digital output from the player to the receiver. There are many older CD/DVD units with a built in Burr Brown DAC which are used in many high end players as well as audiophile equipment. Best to check out some high end DVD players as they have the best transport and higher bit rate conversion which a lot of budget audiophiles go for. Be on the lookout for the high end DVD players that are compatible with SACD, which is an added bonus if you want to the best quality sound achievable without sitting in a recording studio. Most SACD compatible high end DVD players will play regular CDs better than most quality CD players.

I had a Yamaha CD player from around 1989 that had Toslink I connected right to my 2015 Pioneer Elite amp…count me amongst the folks who couldn’t tell the difference between and the analog output. To each his own. It’s nice to have options. I will say those vintage Denons are great in their own right and were known for having good built-in DACs.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

My current research says Toslink isn’t much better than RCA so that might explain some things. And you are right, part of the fun of this hobby is finding the gear that sounds best in your system, no matter the age!

Great video. Have subscribed😉

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Thank you, Ken.

Couple of thoughts. . . It's not necessary to have both coaxial and optical outputs like the unit you showed. A lot of CD players have optical only, and a few (usually newer ones) have coaxial only. Either will work, you just need the correct cable. Also, I have used a switcher to run multiple devices into the same DAC. I like this because it makes everything consistent.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for the information!

@paragadhyaru7672

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for the switcher tip. I need this!

@benwu7980

8 ай бұрын

I still have an old 4 way switcher for the Scart stuff I no longer have. Before adding it to the pile of stuff being let go during moving, I found that while it's 4x scart, 2 have just rca line in's, and the other 2 have coax and optical ins, and the output has both. After a bit of testing, turns out it works pretty well for switching between my dvd players' coax and the optical out from PC. It always worked, but was not feeding into a DAC back when it in use.

The best vintage CD players I have are: Kenwood (1 bit) & Technics (18 bit). The only downside is both don't read CDR selections I burn on my PC. A good alternative solution I have is I play my CDRs on Toshiba DVD player which has 192 kbps and 24 bit specs. They sound wonderful in my tube pre-amp and single ended triode power amp which are connected to my KEF speakers. I only connect audio out to my pre-amp and set aside the video. I also play DVD concerts in the Toshiba player and sound reproduction in my tube audio system is awesome. My audio friends were blown away with performance of the Toshiba both for CD and DVD audio. The Kenwood (1 bit), Technics (18 bit) and Toshiba (24 bit) are so affordable. My two friends who bought the same models are happy and satisfied. Test the gears with your favorite CDs and DVD discs before buying.

@blasest

Жыл бұрын

Hi. What model of Toshiba?

@blasest

Жыл бұрын

Hi what model of Toshiba?

@rosielupita5230

Жыл бұрын

@@blasest i own model nos. SD-890KR and SD-680KA. There are plenty of other Toshiba models and brands being sold at amazon & other shops. Just check they have high resolution progressive scan and specs with 192kpbs and 24 bit (with remote control). Being used electronic item its best to test with your favorite CD and DVD discs if possible. Happy hunting!

My Vintage Marantz CD-player has both options; internal DAC analog outputs and digital outputs if you want to use something else.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Awesome. I had a Marantz SACD player that I found in a pawn shop but unfortunately the laser died.

I bought a used Sony CDP-XE520 back in 2015 because the DVD Player I used always vibrated too much when I'm listen to CDs. The player has analog and digital output and reads CD-Text which I don't want to miss again.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Awesome. Sounds like a great purchase!

There are usually some great buys on higher end used gear out there, even if you're not the super lucky person that finds the like-new Roksan Caspian at the local Goodwill for $12! Take the time to research a bit.

I have the. Oppo BD105 Blu-ray player and love it! Does everything but dry your cloths Heck it even has sub and XRL outs I'm just praying it doesn't die on me Oh l use the digital out from my Oppo to my Exogal Comet Plus DAC

The craze among audiophiles for ever more expensive DAC's is just nuts! Like the craze for ever more expensive moving coil cartridges. I bought a $100 Khadas KTB DAC to use with my cheap secondhand JVC DVD player ($26 from eBay). The combination sounds excellent - but so does the JVC by itself! I am an audiophile and own enough vintage gear - tube and transistor - to fill a store. My favorite speakers are Quad 57's (two pairs), Rogers LS3/5A's and DCM Time Windows. So I know good sound!

@ForeverAnalog

10 ай бұрын

I still love listening to different DACs but they aren’t for everyone. Thanks for watching!

I’m really digging that Schitt DAC.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Me too, I'd love to upgrade to their Bifrost DAC at some point!

My concern with buying a vintage CD player is not so much the overall sound quality of the DAC, but more so the CD "error correction/tracking" ability of the unit. As sad as it is to say, my old vintage single tray unit has issues playing any disc that isn't pretty much scratch free. Where as, the $30 LG DP132H DVD player currently sold at Wally World I just bought, reads and plays any CD music I put in it. Even played my "unplayable" copy of Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms CD. Which looks like it was cleaned with 120 grit sand paper. A video on what to look for in the way of error correction features in old vintage players would be awesome, if you have the inclination/interest to do so. As I think this aspect of "what to look for" in a vintage unit might be just as important as the digital outputs on the back. Thanks for your time. Good video! Liked & Subbed. 👍

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

These are great points - I have tried, unsuccessfully, to repair vintage CD players and found that most of the parts are no longer available, especially the lasers, so I just recycle them. Wish they were easier to repair!

@MF-le7fp

Жыл бұрын

@@ForeverAnalog Hey thanks for the reply! I just picked up an old ADC "Sound Shaper" SS-412X passive Equalizer, in almost perfect condition. No book with it though. I can say that the market for vintage EQs with lcd type graphic displays is hot. And has been for the last few years. These units are fetching a pretty penny on eBay, right now. I just have to figure out how to hook it up. 😂 Any experience with these? If so, maybe consider making a video on this topic. It would possibly help quite a few folks down the road (other than myself). I only mention all this because there arw surprisingly few videos on YT describing how to do this. Might bump your channel view count up very quickly. Regardless, thanks again for your reply.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Interesting idea. Do you mean how to connect an EQ in general or just the lcd version you mention?

@MF-le7fp

Жыл бұрын

@@ForeverAnalog Yes, how to correctly connect a "passive" EQ of any type, into a home stereo system's receiver/amplifier. The procedure is probably a "no brainer" for some folks. But since I've only owned home stereo receivers with "built in" graphic EQs (JVC RX500B & SONY STR-AV710), I've actually never done it. And because both of these already incorporate EQs within the units themselves, there is absolutely zero info in their manuals in regard to how one would go about doing so.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

I’ll look into it! I just need to stumble on an EQ (or check my hoard pile and see if there is one hiding lol)

I have a Sony CDP-315 and it does indeed have digital out. I think I paid around $60 for it, even came with the remote. I've never even tried the built-in DAC. Just run it straight to the external.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Awesome. I find those CDP models often in thrift stores. Part of the reason I made this video. You can find a cheap player with a digital out and go with the external DAC of your choice.

I got lucky and found a Pioneer DV-C505 CD/DVD player for eight bucks at Goodwill and it does have the digital output I hooked it up to my Sony STR-DE705 receiver and it sounds great but I think the tall speaker columns probably have a lot to do with it!

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Awesome find!

My cd player is using an older BurrBrown P58p. It came out in 1990 and it is still one of the better DACs out there.

The good Vintage player are a good unite between dac and Transport, very hard to beat

I have a Pioneer PD-F908. Would never consider using its internal DAC. Also have a Yamaha CDX480 that easily sounds good enough to use standalone with a pair of headphones plugged into the front. All vintage equipment will look similar but it really boils down to how much the unit cost new.

Agreed. There is much debate about DACs, but I believe they are one element in audio systems that has steadily improved over the years. I don't think vintage CD players should be thought of as the equivalent of good, vintage amps (really old CD players can sound surprisingly unsatisfying). Nevertheless, DACs are still only one element in sound reproduction. A slightly older, higher-end CD player with superior internal mechanisms and stages (even with no digital out) can sound better than a cheap Blu-ray player with a newer DAC. With digital output, though, you can use an external DAC or even just the DAC in a newer receiver or integrated amplifier, so I agree that such an output is something to look for when buying.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Yes. I agree with you as well! Thank you for watching and commenting!

@benwu7980

8 ай бұрын

One of the things that stood out at the time of my upgrading dvd player back in the day, was it having dual lenses instead of the one that needs refocusing. There were not many, but the Sony dvp-s7700 is quite a beast with a dvd or a cd being played. Good enough that I sold off my Marantz cd63se, though in hindsight I should have held onto that cd player. Not sure of a bluray player that also does a dual or even triple lens.

Great idea

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

One other thing. There are cheap MD recorder units with great vintage DACs, put a disc in on record and paused to turn it into a DAC.

you opened my mind !!!

@ForeverAnalog

Күн бұрын

Welcome to the other side! lol. Thanks for watching!

Mofi fiasco opened many eyes to the beauty of digital.

@bondgabebond4907

Жыл бұрын

@Nicholas Bravo. Took the words out of my mouth. I love CDs. After purchasing my second vinyl LP, playing it on my turntable and hearing two loud pops, I swore then that this is the last vinyl (new) I will every buy. Probably won't buy used LPs as I have seen how easily vinyl is damaged. Nothing like snap, crackle and pops and occasional skips to ruin a musical expression.

@varungk3388

Жыл бұрын

@@JohnSmith-zl8rz Yes I know they sound great,precisely because they are digital 👍

Another tip. Used CD players before 90ish could not read home burned CDs reliably or at all. It pays to check for a date or look it up.

Thank you ... I always wondered

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for watching!

Can the analog output (or input) of a 1995 vintage dual cassette deck be made digital by using one of these DACs?

I have a Sony BDP S760, and I love it. The only complaint is that it takes a long time to get ready. Not as long as the Sony tv I bought last year. That was so slow I gave it away For vintage sound i have a 1968 stereogram that has an input jack. And also extra output for external 15 ohm speakers.

Good info. So in theory I can connect a player thru Digital Coaxial (or toslink) directly to a receiver with good internal DAC and bypass an external one?

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Yes, that is correct!

Great video. So if I've got a BluRay player with only HDMI out, and that's connected to the TV, and the AV out of the TV is plugged into an older Receiver for sound (no digital inputs), does that mean I'm using the TV's DAC when playing CDs? How do TV DACs (an older Sharp in this case) compare? Likewise, how about playing CDs on a computer just using your average sound card. This video has inspired me to start playing physical CDs again. Although I'm a bit wary of putting additional wear on my existing (non-dedicated CD player) gear.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Full disclosure, I'm a two channel stereo guy so HDMI and TV connections aren't necessarily my forte when it comes to music playback, but I believe the answer is that the equipment where the digital connection ends will use the DAC inside to convert the signal to analog. So in your example, the receiver's DAC is being used. I always appreciate anyone with a little more TV/HDMI experience to weigh in and confirm or correct me as needed, lol. Most DACs included in regular consumer electronics, especially computers, can be improved with an external DAC. The DAC chips used in these common devices are what Paul at PS Audio calls "throw away DACs", meaning the manufacturers use the most cost effective chips since the goal of the device isn't 100% audio. Your computer is meant to do lots of things so Apple and Dell aren't spending a lot to make sure the DAC inside is top notch (if that makes sense). So the DAC chips included do the job, but they will not perform as well as an external DAC where the engineer designed it to do nothing BUT produce the best audio possible. I hope this is helpful. CD players can be found everywhere these days for a good price so I wouldn't hesitate to pick up a dedicated player with digital outs if you stumble on one.

do most dvd players play audio non mp3 cds gapless? which brand should I go for when shopping if I want this feature? i have a lot of continuous mix cds.

There is nothing wrong with buying the player without digital outputs if the price is right. Just go in knowing that you're not getting the added value of the upgrade option. If you're just looking to play some CDs on the cheap, go for it.

@briancaine9130

7 ай бұрын

Yes. I just purchased a 1985 Sony CDP 70 player. Red and white analog out only. I bought it because it has its own DAC and headphone Jack and volume control. Needs some pot and laser slide cleaning but am hoping I can get it running smooth.

@user-zb9lv3gh8s

9 күн бұрын

​@@briancaine9130a little de-oxit and you'll be in heaven! Enjoy your new player

If you are skilled enough (not very, actually) and attached to your vintage analogue CD player (

I realised cds like vinyl will return so I bought a marantz cd6007usb as I have many flac files also. Anyhow going into a local charity shop I purchased 20 cd' s for £1 the lot, ps I offered more but was told no its fine. So off to others to pick up more. Its a win win situation.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I’ve really enjoyed buying CDs, even new ones, at better pricing than LPs. Still love my records though lol

I have a Phillips cd618 with the swing arm laser I have swapped out the op amps ,and modded to non oversampling still not sure if non oversampling is a great idea.

I got that exact same Sony at goodwill. It even had the remote and a blue ray inside of it🎉 All for 10$

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Awesome

I would also suggest making sure that whatever component vintage cd player you buy, make sure it can read a cd-r. Some of the high fidelity home cd players will not read a cd-r no matter what kind of cd-r it is. Some may. It can also depend on the disc itself. I saw one video of a car cd player that can't read discs that were burned at either too high a rate in the computer, or because they were the 700MB/80 minute ones.

@ForeverAnalog

11 күн бұрын

Great point, thank you!

I'm still using an early 2000s Sony 5 disc cd/DVD carousel charger. It's has the rca line output as well as digital output and hdmi output. If moved on to using a UHD DVD player for videos but am holding on to that Sony because for a long time carousel changers weren't very available.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Awesome!

@MrMikey1273

Жыл бұрын

@@ForeverAnalog yep best part is I've owned it since I purchased it from Crutchfield decades ago. Buy decent stuff it lasts. Looking at their website now the cheapest single player is $300 I was into buying digital music for a few years but now I'm seeing cds are cheaper sometimes than Amazon mp3. I've also discovered flac files an EAC to make files to play in my truck that doesn't have a cd player like most new vehicles.

Have you synced, equalized volumes, and done an a/b test in audacity to see if there is any difference at all? I am skeptical there is any difference unless there is something actually wrong with the built in dac.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

I did a test between a new Sony blu-ray and the Cambridge AXC35 in another video and couldn't tell much difference when using digital outputs on both players into my Emotiva preamp where they were using the same DAC (which makes sense). I could hear a difference compared to the Sony blu-ray digital output (it does not have RCA) vs the Cambridge AXC35 RCA output where it uses the internal Wolfson DAC. So yeah...have to be careful to compare apples to apples or in this case, DAC to DAC, lol.

Don’t forget older DVD players! They’re usually even less expensive to use as a CD transport.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Agreed! You should watch the video I just posted about a DVD player I found while thrifting. It's pretty tongue in cheek but was fun making.

HDMI is , also a "digital" output. You can use the "DAC" on your digital receiver, and get more bandwidth than "SPDIF". Cheers.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Good point, thank you!

@renealarcon3970

Жыл бұрын

@@ForeverAnalog YW.

I found dvd/sacd/cd combo players have pretty good internal dacs because of the implied demand for better quality sacd playback.

There are 2 ways of it, every audio equipment has different characteristic of the sound, new not means better, is better on a paper and technical specs but doesn’t mean it sound better. somehow i do prefer vintage sound then modern dacs as many of them are very synthetic design for network streaming or poor players. if you get good vintage cd player can easily bit modern dacs. it’s the same with new amplifiers or those class D or fully digital, vintage class AB or A simply sound better than those modern which on a paper are better but i do not listening digits from specs but music and music is full of distortions and imperfections as that how the instruments are working. the guitar works on distortions, drums the same, human voice is not crystal clear like synthetic voice from PC. so those imperfections in vintage audio just make it better and more pleasant to listening. another way (second) you can upgrade you vintage audio by full restoration like changing capacitors for audio grade which will definitely bit modern dacs.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Yep. The fun of this hobby is that everyone has a different listening preference regarding what type of gear they prefer!

I don't know why I can't seem to get my vintage CD player to work with my DAC going through the coaxial

I have a small sony It plays cds sacds & bluray dvds

Interesting name on that dac.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

No kidding 😂

You can do the same thing with HDMI if your DAC/AV receiver supports HDMI.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Yep I don’t use AVRs much these days but you are correct.

Also if buying a Blu-ray player not all come with manual play, skip and stop buttons. So look out for that otherwise you will need the remote and/or TV to control.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Very true!

Old CD players often had the digital signal internally but just no connector on the cheaper model. Easy mod if you know what you’re doing.

I thought I was right with a Philips player, it had an extra socket on the back, however it turned out to be a remote control input (I had to download the manual to find out) However when I lidded it, and looked up the chipset, the main IC supported digital out, it was just not fitted. An hour with a soldering iron and I was able to fit the necessary parts. Of course what was needed was not in the players technical manual, however the chip datasheet showed a suggested circuit. problem solved.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Amazing work!

I’ve been using a vintage Samsung BD-C5500 blu ray player to play my over 1k CD collection for the past couple of years but I like the convenience of a dedicated CD player. I ended buying an Onkyo C-7030, and although there are plenty of good vintage CD players on the market I wanted something reliable and under warranty in case something goes wrong.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

yeah, my garage is full of vintage CD players that just.stopped.working lol

@bigbear01964

10 ай бұрын

@@ForeverAnalog what is your price for your defective marantz cd-94 ??

Also you can use the built in dac in your amplifier.

@ForeverAnalog

11 ай бұрын

Great point thank you

Philipp - especially older models have great DACs inside! NO digital output is needed. Even NEW models integrate a special DAC which you can find in old Philips CD players.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Vintage DACs are a lot of fun to listen to as well!

@leonhardtart7163

Жыл бұрын

@@ForeverAnalog Yes, listening to DUCks is fun, too.🎶🎵

My vintage cd player just bit the dust. Sony D-828k. Instead of spending $$ to fix it, im trying to see if i have something already before buying another vintage cd player. How does the sound coming out of an xbox 360 compare to a dedicated cd player? Im considered buying that same Schiit amplifier, but for a Denon Dcd 570 cd player(used.) Im using Koss pro 4aa 250ohm headphones. *denon dvd-1930ci

I would add a few provisos to this video's advice: Many first and second generation CD players will have a digital, i.e. S/PDIF out, yet those players may have endured a great deal more wear and tear than less vintage models, and thus may not last very long. Belts and motors do die. Some first and second generation players, however, were built like tanks and will keep going: ymmv! Serious shoppers should look for scans of Stereo Review, High Fidelity and other HiFi magazines online and make a list of lauded CD players. And if you plan to use your S/PDIF digital out make sure you use a 75 ohm coaxial cable, not the usual RCA cable (don't be fooled by gold-plated connectors)! Lastly, brand names matter: I for one would never walk away from a reasonably priced Denon CD player whose analog outs might sound better (or more likely will be much more reliable) than the digital output of a no-name or poorly built CD player.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

I’ve lost count of how many CD players have died on me over the years lol.

@pnichols6500

Жыл бұрын

​@@ForeverAnalog The first one I bought was a Pioneer 6 disc player in 1993 ( yeah, I'm an old fart). The disc loads into a cartridge or cassette that you insert into the player. The crazy thing is, it's still working great and I use it fairly often. I've been streaming more and have gotten back into vinyl so don't use it as much. I have ripped hundreds of CDs to files and play them through my laptop now. So I can compare my CD player against running through the nice DAC in my integrated amp, and it holds up pretty good but you can hear the difference.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

My first CD player was a 6 disc changer too. JVC. My mom bought it for me for Christmas!

@pnichols6500

Жыл бұрын

@@ForeverAnalog Nice.

For audio CD use, I always look for a shuffle/random switch, my DVD player has one.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Nice! Thanks for watching!

Need some help understanding. What's the real difference in a high-end red book CD transport with high-end digital out like IIS HDMI, AES/EBU/BNC vs typical CD player that plays regular red book but also CD ROM (spins faster uses a buffer so it's really not a direct transport to an external DAC) with both RCA analog out and COAX/Optical SPDIF vs just using my good ole Sony 5 disk cd changer from 1994 with only analog rca out? Real-world difference of the first two compared to of course the last option. Thanks. Subscribed!

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for subscribing! Unfortunately, I'm not an expert in Red Book CDs, so I'm not confident enough to answer your question. However, if your OG Sony player has a digital output, you can buy an affordable DAC, say from Schiit and connect it just to hear how it sounds. If it doesn't work for you, they are always easy to resell, etc.

@motleypixel

Жыл бұрын

@@ForeverAnalog they don't seem to make what I want so I'm having to buy several devices. I'd like to see a small Class D amp with a phono pre-amp, optical in, coax in, rca in, usb in, 2.1 channel with sub coax out, 5.3 BT with aptx-ll, ldac, faststream (xmit and receive), tone controls, sub level and freq control. A few nice to haves on top of that would be L/R VU analog backlit meters and wifi. BAM!

What about a good DVD player as a good CD player..and..qich is better for audio recidivas.. a CDR player or a good DVD..or even more Computar recording is better than the other 2 ..or not

Thank you

Hi there, great video. I have a 4K Blu-ray player which has both Toslink and Coaxial Digital outputs, as well as a second (audio only) HDMI output. Can anyone recommend a DAC that supports multiple 5.1 (or even higher) channel formats?

@EmanNiburTV

Жыл бұрын

Did you find any?

Any recommendations for a good portable Blu ray player?

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

I do not have enough experience with portables to recommend one. Hopefully someone in the comments will be able to make a recommendation based on their experience!

Hi, I would like to read some guidance. I'll start by mentioning what I have at the moment so it's easier to help me. I have an AT-LP120XUSB Turntable, Speakers Edifier S1000 MKII. My need is basically to have a device no more than $400 US that allows me to listen to my CDs taking advantage of the speakers I have for now which are pre-amplified (powered speakers). Surely later I will choose to upgrade to passive speakers. Likewise, I want one that could be versatile as much as possible, that is, that allows powered and passive speakers to be directly connected to the device, I'd like also and less important one with a USB input (for playing digital files in which the artists stopped releasing the disc) even more so, this being not more relevant that I can connect my turntable too. I do not pretend to upgrade anything for a while since this hobby is too expensive. As you can see, I have no extensive knowledge. What solution do you offer me to take advantage of the current speakers and play my CDs. Moreover, I gave my mom a Yamaha HTR- 5630 that was given to me from a friend, but that Receiver is not matching with my Powered speakers. Do you have a better suggestion for what I'm looking for and what I'm counting on? Having said that. I will also list the options I have been checking. 1) Yamaha CD-S303 $380 US. Reading and listening to reviews, it seems that for its features it has an inflated price (I don't know that). 2) Denon Bluetooth Receiver RCD-N10 $400 US. This has many attractive features, but my focus is not on the Wireless features and streaming. So this being the one that attracts me the most, if you know of one with a similar one but that DOES NOT have Bluetooth and Streaming, it would be much better because it would save me money. 3) Marantz CD6007 $600. But it is out of my budget, since it is possible that it does not exceed $400. 4) Denon DCD-900NE $500. Thank you so much. Best regards.

I actually prefer my xa20es DAC with a tube line level amp. Tung Sol tubes.

I wish I could find good portable players with digital outputs :) FYI I have found that the Aiyima T9 Pro has an issue taking in an optical signal from 2 different Sony CDP-CX355 carousels. When playing a CD with some high output the Aiyima cutts out, making a sound similar to a CD skip. An example of a common CD I have seen this with is Zoo Station on U2's Actung Baby.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the info! My T9 Pro coaxial input has a crackling in the right channel (and it's not the cable which works fine on all other equipment). Those cheap class D amps are always a gamble!

@starker1971

Жыл бұрын

@@ForeverAnalog The optical issue I had was on 2 different CD players with 2 different T9 pros I think I have found a potential design issue but I have only experienced this with one optical output. Other optical outputs are running the T9pro without issue. There aren't issues with the CD players and the Sony STR-DH790 optical input. There also aren't issues with the Sony CD changers to a SMSL m300. In other usages the T9 pro worked fine. I had it connected up to the optical output of an xbox 360 and an Android TV STB. This enabled me to use the HDMI of a pure computer monitor that doesn't support sound

Why would different DACs sound different? Either the digital data is being properly reconstructed into the analog waveform that it encodes, or it isn't. Is it about filtering out quantization noise? At 44,100 Hz, that shouldn't be audible in the first place. So what kind of differences would there be?

@KeltyVince

Жыл бұрын

There are many things that can make a difference, the same dac chip with different circuitry can sound very different, if you look around in detail it some dac chips, the same one can be used in a low end dac or cd player, but also in a very expensive version of those, the chip its self makes less of a difference to the sound than all the components in the circuit supporting the chip, basically the way the chip is implemented in the device makes all the difference, some very old dac chips have been used in far more modern and quite expensive cd players and dac's.

How about connecting the digital output directly to the digital input of your modern receiver and eliminate an analog cable in the chain that would be coming from an external DAC? How do the DACs in modern receivers compare to an external DAC?

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

That's a great connection option too. Modern receiver DACs sound great too. It's always fun for me to A/B and hear which sounds better!

CD player with the analog output only can't you just buy a analog to digital converter?

Interesting, but I am more old skool with pretty much everything including my music sound. lol I am one of those that doesn't buy newer stuff very often and usually gets my electronics at thrift stores and such. I got a nice Panasonic no flip the disc Laserdisc player a couple of years ago. So I can watch my OG Star Wars trilogy and other great classic movies and TV on it as well. I mean I have about 20 retro video game consoles hooked up to a 27" CRT TV which feeding it is multiple RCA switch boxes running through my Sony VCR, then to my TV as it only has a coaxial output. It works great though. Just thought I would share.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Nothing wrong with enjoying vintage gear - I have some videos coming out soon highlighting some of my favorite vintage amps, turntables, etc.

thanks for the video. Do you know anything about the yamaha cd400? it s very cheap in my country. what s your opinion?

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

I haven't listened to that model but I looked it up online and it only has RCA outputs, no digital outputs, so you would not be able to use an external DAC if you wanted to upgrade at some point. Yamaha's "Natural Sound", at least on their receivers, tend to be fairly neutral and easy to listen to which might be perfect should you not care to upgrade the DAC.

@musica2envasada398

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the advice.

Make sure to look for DVD/SACD players as well.

How do you know an external DAC is better than the in-built one in a player?

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

I use external DACs with all my players so for me it’s just by trial and error.

Since the middle of the 90' s the DAC' s used in good cd player (for example Yamaha CDX 993) are good enough to satisfy you. i would more worry about still getting laser units

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for watching and the comment!

I have a Blu ray player which has hdmi and I've hdmi connected that to my onyko receiver. Isn't that better than coaxial or optical?

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Good question. Honestly, I haven’t sat down and compared all three cables you mention with a listening session yet. Might be a good idea for a future video!

@dtr2058

Жыл бұрын

Yes, HDMI is a better protocol than Digital Coaxial and Toslink (Optical). HDMI has a significantly higher bandwidth than the other protocols which allows for better data trasnfer. This really only comes into play with blu-rays or other movie sources for surround sound.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for the input. That makes a lot of sense. I’m a classic two channel audio guy and don’t work much with hdmi.

@paulkerr9128

Жыл бұрын

@@ForeverAnalog one additional consideration with HDMI is that you are tied to using the DAC in the receiver as most external DACs do not have HDMI inputs, just coaxial, Toslink and USB. Not an issue if your receiver is a higher end unit with a good internal DAC. Also, many newer Blu-ray Players will play SACDs as well and SACD can only be output through HDMI. I have a Sony Blu-Ray player that I picked up for $40 and it plays SACDs but I can only play them through my receiver's built in DAC through HDMI.

@ForeverAnalog

Жыл бұрын

Excellent points! Thank you

Do you need BOTH digital coax AND optical? Is just digital coax enough of a connection?

@ForeverAnalog

5 ай бұрын

Coax is enough assuming your external DAC has coax input (most do)

@fredramos5215

5 ай бұрын

Thanks, most helpful@@ForeverAnalog

You're told to look for digital outputs for upgrading. Done. 👍

hey everyone, so i found a blu ray/cd player in my house. I flipped it over and it has a digital outpout, but it doesn't have an optical switch. Can i improve the DAC?

@ForeverAnalog

Ай бұрын

I just use coaxial