I am old enough to remember when the LP12 first appeared during a crazy time of hi-fi snobbery in the UK and elsewhere. Some dealers refused to sell various separates unless one was going to pair them with what said MUST BE. Although I owned an LP12 and other Linn products off and on I was never sucked into the reverence cult which Linn encouraged, even if management did not originate it. Besides, the LP12 was actually copied from another manufacturer but I did and still do concede that they were mostly quite well put together and had good platters. The suspension mechanism was over complicated for what it was and the less expensive Thorens mechanism was generally superior and not subject to the misalignment shown here because there were wedges to use as a simple means of protecting it during transport. Linn could have done a lot more to avoid problems but the rigidity of earlier case work did not allow for a Thorens solution. Linn woodwork was also prone to warping over a few years, even in the temperate climate of the UK and this might have been down to humidity. Thorens tended to use semi-wood and when Rega came into being the design principles obviated the issues shown here. For me (apart from silly names and silly prices) the Linn was let down by puny motors and "dirty" power feed which could affect speed and resonance the same as with any belt drive, although Linn made improvements -- again with silly names. During occasional work with BBC classical musical programmes, I saw few Linn turntables in use, if any. Lenco turntables with variable speed and EMT customized decks were most used and even Garrards for some records but Technics SP and SL 10s changed BBC vinyl usage profoundly as these expensive precision direct drive turntables were robust, silent, adjustable and saved a lot in maintenance costs. The belt vs direct drive argument will persist and is as boring now as it was 40 years ago.

@audibleeleganceinc

8 ай бұрын

Thank you for your robust comments and I find them fair from a user's point of view. In fact, the Thorens suspension, which predated the Linn, used many of the same parts as Linn adopted right down to the springs and grommets. I know, I have parted enough Thorens out. What Linn did was to make, in a sense, a more robust Thorens. Where Linn took it further was the intense training on how to get the best out of a Linn whereas Thorens were sold as a turnkey product with little care by the dealers, at least here in the States. The direct drive tables were ideal for radio as with the use of a cartridge like Stanton, one could back-cue and have a start up time in a quarter of a revolution. Ergo, no dead air time or, at least greatly minimized. Keep in mind that for many years, contrary to popular belief, many commercial radio stations used carts (cartridges, i.e. 8 track or similiar.) As for their other products, well, I will leave you with a funny. What Hi-Fi held annual awards for best products and, well, one for the worst product. After the falling out between Linn and Naim, LInn created a tuner called the Kremlin. Quite expensive. It was awarded the Worst Product of the Year. Obviously, no one from Linn was in attendance when the award was given. However, when announced, Julian Vereker of Naim stood up and said "On behalf of my friend Ivor, I will accept the award" The room howled in laughter. Years later when Julian died, however, Ivor wrote a most beautiful eulogy about Mr. Verreker. It was classic all the way. Covered two pages in a magazine, as I recall. As for the "cult", well, I was never much part of that but for many, discovering that one could understand musical differences in musical terms was an awakening. In that sense, they became apostles that felt that their mission was to address a great many misconceptions about hi-fi and, in many ways, they were correct. The failing became that they could not accept that others were also addressing misconceptions albeit in different ways. At the dealer level, here in the states, cults are less common but are often based around a couple of magazines as if they speak the gospel. Sadly, many solid principles of hi-fi have been lost in the current time and market as can be seen with $69 turntables from Amazon. Nuff said.

@audibleeleganceinc

8 ай бұрын

Oh, and yes I have had a few comments from the cult that I actually had to mute. If one is not going to contribute and move the conversation forward, but, rather merely bicker, then save it for someone else. I don't have much patience for that. I have grown very tired of those who can only criticize and destroy while failing to build. We have a serious problem with that in the States.

I still have my LP12 (same model as this), bought new in 1975. Apart from a few drive belts, I have done nothing to it and it still works and looks like it always did.

@audibleeleganceinc

7 ай бұрын

And that is fine. It is a faithful friend and that's cool. My point of the video was to caution folks about the trials and tribulations about attempted upgrades.

@infocuslearning

7 ай бұрын

@@audibleeleganceinc I think the main thing is that I rarely move it and always treat it gently. Same with the original SME 3009 arm I fitted to it when I bought it.

Early Linns lacked corner wedges so the plinths became distorted over time. When my 1983 Linn was updated to Linn Cirkus spec in the 1990s the plinth was the first to go. In fact, there's very little left of the original. Great video - I'm surprised that you can get mail order Linns in the USA. That's impossible in the UK - same for Rega Planar 3s and above.

@audibleeleganceinc

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for your excellent comments, particularly about the original Linn LP12 base (plinth). As for the means of product distribution, yes, indeed, it is a complete shambles in the United States. Many manufacturers or distributors are willing to chase production. I drew the line on Rega when I discovered listings for their tables on the US Walmart Website. The distributor fixed that one quickly. This behavior has contributed greatly to the decline of specialist retailers in the States right along with any product knowledge of what they are selling. It's all become cans of beans. Sad, actually.

I still have my Linn sondek lp12, number 3375, bought in 1974... (Grace G-707 mk2 black tonearm, Grado A2+). Never upgrades..., original turntable with the pré-cirkus bearing !! THE ORIGINAL SOUND OF THE LP12 !! ❤❤ I like it too much...It sound amazing !! 👍👍 (the subplatter has a little green color...)

@audibleeleganceinc

6 ай бұрын

Good for you and enjoy it that way. The LP12 is a fine turntable but I just wanted to point out that sometimes the upgrade path is not worth following.

I think it would be a good idea to plug the bearing and cover the bearing spindle to protect it from swarfe / dust contamination from the sanding procedure. It's also, I believe, not a good idea to have black oil in conjunction with the early white nylon topped bearing as it causes swelling and partial seizure. Hope this helps!

@audibleeleganceinc

10 ай бұрын

Oh, I think you are overstating the case. I was 8 to 10 inches back from the rear of the deck and not over the bearing well. Cameras can be a bit funny in perspective. Good suggestion, and noted. As for the oil, whatever the customer or prior owner did before he brought it in is exactly the way it left. We never charged this bearing well. There were a lot of things this table needed but all was declined. This is quite common when someone buys a used table and then brings it to us. I could tell lots of stories about what we have found tacked on the underside of platters, plinths, you name it.

@russputin6294

10 ай бұрын

You may well be right but better safe than sorry. As the old proverb says "the Devil is in the detail". Thanks for your reply and have a great day

good job

@audibleeleganceinc

3 ай бұрын

Thank you for taking the time to comment. I appreciate the effort.

Individually hand sanding those two surfaces will make the total contact between the two surfaces more uneven and far worse than the effects of a few fingerprints.

@audibleeleganceinc

4 ай бұрын

In this case there was pitting. So, I disagree.

These old bolts do not go with modern springs hence the suspension issue. You dont have enough adjustment in the left hangar to correct it.

@audibleeleganceinc

5 ай бұрын

The customer brought the table into me this way and would not allow me to do anything else. So, I showed what should be done if correct but when the customer says no, that's it. Thank you for your comments and appreciate your effort.

PBR and Linn a excellent duo. Actually occasionally I combine them myself...😊

@audibleeleganceinc

Жыл бұрын

Indeed!

@robertthurston6858

Жыл бұрын

What grit sandpaper did you use ?

@audibleeleganceinc

Жыл бұрын

There is no markings on the paper we have received. Based upon it's feel, I would say it is in the 1500 to 2000 grit level. Personally, I would go with 2000. That said, I would treat the issue at the same level as if I were polishing plastic headlight covers.

@NateEll

Жыл бұрын

Another excellent Linn dealer is Accent on Music in New York. The owners care and have decades of Linn experience

@audibleeleganceinc

Жыл бұрын

@@NateEll excellent to know as I just found out that another guru has hung up his cartridges.

Aren't you sanding away the clear lacquer finish sprayed on the platter?

@audibleeleganceinc

Ай бұрын

No, the mating surfaces between the inner platter and the outer platter are not coated. I learned that at the factory.

could the "height-issue" be due to the springs?

@audibleeleganceinc

7 ай бұрын

Not likely

in scotland we have David Ewing ...ex RR engineer to do this work :) a REAL engineer , and we have all the tools just like any other linn dealer

@audibleeleganceinc

11 ай бұрын

Bingo! Across the pond, I have heard all sorts of horror DIY stories and had to return more than my fair share of tables to spec. I've see clay pressed into the underside of the platter, the subchassis, tonearms wrecked because they torqued the cartridge tight without removing the arm. Oh, yes, quite a bit. It's amazing to me how many people think that they know more than engineering. But, hey, what do I know. I don't know it all but I know enough to respect it.

would a coat of wax do as well as laquer?

@audibleeleganceinc

7 ай бұрын

Once lacquered, I don't have any idea what a wax would do.

It's a bit of a comedy: the gentleman spends the whole time talking about how bad it is to take a platter and subplatter in bare hands and then tries to save it with his - bare hands 😀

@audibleeleganceinc

6 ай бұрын

On the Linn LP12 platter, there are surfaces that are lacquered and those which are not. Most of the platter and inner platter is lacquered except for the two surfaces where they meet when assembled. Handling a lacquered surface is fine if you have washed your hands of contaminants. That said, it is still unwise to touch the mating surfaces and finger oil can lead to pitting which is what was being removed.

I'd be covering the turntable while it's in your workshop and you're generating aluminium and abrasive dust from the sanding process. Just sayin'

@audibleeleganceinc

Жыл бұрын

Actually, the Linn platter system is not aluminium. Neither is the Thorens inner and outer platter which, in fact, suffers the same issues. As for dust, well, I will note that but there's more dust and dirt floating around a typical home than what could be generated by this process. Now, if it were filings, yep, you are dead on with that.

That's a real precision looking tool, IE globs of epoxy!!

@audibleeleganceinc

10 ай бұрын

Yeah, I thought that too. Then, I realized why that was done have ignored issues with process over purpose. Kinda like trying to get something done with the government around. You can either have it done or you can have all the paperwork filled out. So, you understand the purpose and that's all good. Perhaps you can find a better one.

@frankfusco5479

10 ай бұрын

just too digress I put together a linn lp12 turntable from a variety of parts. I had an Axis turntable that I used the arm from(Basic) bought a used plinth in very good shape, suspension and new springs and grommets, Valhalla Board and new motor. its all assembled and plays, suspension is a work in progress(LINN Bounce)! I think m Valhalla bd needs cap replacement. Anyway my version of an Lp12 is called the Linn Bastard because of all the thrown together parts. thanks for reply will send a pic when I find it! Frank@@audibleeleganceinc

@audibleeleganceinc

10 ай бұрын

Have fun with it, Frank. It's a hobby and if you are willing to learn, spend a few dollars, and give it your time, that's what it is all about. My points on the LP12 is that you need to understand how it works and follow the rules. It's not for the timid. I guess that means I have a bastard tool as well. @@frankfusco5479

@frankfusco5479

10 ай бұрын

I agree!!!@@audibleeleganceinc

My thoughts? Don't buy an LP12 unless you live near a GOOD Linn dealer. I have owned one I bought from a former salesman from a store that operated in Sarasota for a brief 4 years. (1978 -1982). I depended on a Linn dealer in Tampa for 25 years for upgrades and service until he lost interest (now out of business) I gave him a ton of business through the years and ended up with a mediocre sounding table; he reduced my $4,000 table to one that sounded no better than a decent $400 table. Luckily, I found a very bright Tech in Eastern Tennessee who restored it to its former glory. I'm not sure I would ever purchase another.

@audibleeleganceinc

9 ай бұрын

I think that observation stands for most quality turntables, actually. There are plenty of itchy and scratchys out there who get into things without any expertise. Many of the principles of Linn tables actually apply to others, it's just that Linn does it at a higher precision level which must be met. Thank you for taking the time to comment and share your experiences. If you have not already, please subscribe and tell others about my channel. Who knows, maybe they will find something in the work that's useful.

@edwardgonczy3170

9 ай бұрын

I respectfully disagree. How this idiot in Tampa could have turned a turntable that had a value of about $4,000 into one that sounded like a $400 table in one afternoon is a mystery to me. There is a new Denon Direct Drive (DP3000-NE that sells for $2,500). Perhaps has only about 80% of the nuance of a Linn but if it's plug and play, sounds good for 15 years, I'm down.@@audibleeleganceinc

smooth side in; more friction

@audibleeleganceinc

7 ай бұрын

Oh, yes, we have heard it both ways. I suppose it might have a lot to do with manufacturing sources too. Thank you for your contribution. I appreciate your contribution.

And that folks, is why God gave us Technics!

@audibleeleganceinc

21 күн бұрын

I owned one of those when they first came out. The biggest mistake I ever made followed by an equally miserable Kenwood rock. For ease of use, yes. Gave one to my elderly parents. No question about that.

Ah yes, "45"...former Green Beret that always carried my trusty Colt 1911...if you're going to shoot your self, why risk screwing the job up with a 9mm, lol.

@audibleeleganceinc

9 ай бұрын

And I made the serious error of giving up my 1903. What a beautiful design and as balanced as any finely crafted knife or sword. Alas....

@512bb

9 ай бұрын

True, the 1903 was pretty cool indeed, of coarse I'm also inflicted with the love of hand crafted knives as well along with Colt SAA's, HK"s, Sig's, Walther's, etc...well better go now so I can plan my next bank job!!!@@audibleeleganceinc

And nitrile gloves if you are that fussy

@audibleeleganceinc

10 ай бұрын

Which I am not.

you need a good screwdriver

@audibleeleganceinc

Жыл бұрын

That too for sure! Actually several different ones.

never appreciated the precision. ( I have a pro-ject)

@audibleeleganceinc

7 ай бұрын

That's ok. If you are happy, then it's met your needs.

Gee- having to deal with finger prints on the underside of a platter🫤

@audibleeleganceinc

4 ай бұрын

Some folks treat platters and records as if they were hamburgers. This happens to all brands of turntables like Thorens or the old ARs. The good news is I have never found catsup or mustard on the bottom sides!