Link to video on can you see the lips of the singer? studio.kzread.infoVIpTt5SB3_k/edit Link to playlist on audio discussion: kzread.info/head/PLtkU4eRp056bRN8b4opAFCg21ICgyszh0 Link to hifiexpress for SMSL A2: hifi-express.com/products/smsl-vmv-a2-digital-pffb-power-amplifier?variant=40216029954205 The answer to the thumbnail is at the last 3 mins of the video.

@christopherhachet8204

2 жыл бұрын

The lips of the singer video was actually one of the most helpful things you posted.

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

@@christopherhachet8204 Really! Thanks.

@Feliciano12v

2 жыл бұрын

Regarding the video can you see the lips of the singer, what song/artist is this? I would like to play that song that you speak of with my system.

@richardyoung8928

2 жыл бұрын

Hi Thomas I have the Mac 6700 and purchased the the klh model 5 , playing it for a few days

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

@@richardyoung8928 Nice, let me know if it is to your taste.

Love these videos more than review Thomas. Regarding scale, my preference is as big & tall as possible. I love the feeling of my music being played by giants or being in a big live concert!

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Yup, that is 10000% fine because it is your preference.

After thirty years, I have learned that, after you reach a certain level of fidelity, what matters most is controlling the 'presentation' of that fidelity, via control of parasitical vibration in speakers, electronics and power supplies. Vibration control plus a clean mains makes just about any well-made equipment sound musical. Most of our frustration that a system only does certain things to a satisfying level comes from failing to deal with vibration and poor mains. The idea that listening to a system is just a matter of matching circuits, in a vacuum, is lunacy. We live in a world where unwanted, exterior and interior physical variables intrude. Most of the 'character' of what you hear is colored by the raw physics of mains pollution and vibrations caused by microphony and internal noise. You can make startling character changes in your music by changing just the feet of your equipment. You can 'tune' your system to an incredible degree, if you know what types of supports to use. I can make an amp or CD player sound 'tubey' or 'clean' or 'textured' just by using different supports. Instead of looking for improvements in 'detail retrieval' or 'cleaner bass' by changing to a different amp or speakers, you can try far cheaper vibration-reducing footers and shelves and get most of the desired result. I'd much rather refine an existing system by playing with new supports than go back to the merry-go-round of constantly changing amps, speakers and sources hoping to find a perfect fit. I never found that perfect fit. What I learned instead was to find a system that got close to my dream sound and then tinker with various tweaks until it approached being everything I hoped for. It's cheaper, fun and you have a more precise control of shaping the sound in directions you want to go. Anyway, my two cents.

Cool video and great topic Thomas! I found holographic soundstage can be achieved with many entry level setups, if you go near field and as far from wall boundaries as possible, especially the back wall (behind the speakers...). It is a weird setup, but having speakers close to a chair, in the middle of a room launched me to another dimension. The thing is, I found it true for equipment that was not recommended for near field, as well as equipment matching that does not work well with mid/far field setups. Once I go bak to more traditional setups, yes, the room to speaker size (and off-course, distance from the back wall) are the key factors. I keep mentioning back wall because even if I get a sound stage, it just feels artificial if I don't get the distance from the back wall that matches it. I did find it that once there's a god tier soundstage, all my sound preference go out the window. Bright, shouty, fatiguing... it's all good.

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Nice nice, thanks for sharing.

@ranelime

2 жыл бұрын

@Lloyd Stout actually l, sealed towers and passive radiator bookshelves. :) But this worked in a few more speakers

You know, the biggest upgrade to my sound system recently was when my other half inherited a ‘high wing backed’ chair. Made an enormous difference to the sound stage of my system.

@shane6326

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah I’ll second that! You must be a legit giant! High backed chairs are supposedly not favourable for good listening if your ears are below the back of the chair…( listening level) I mean Your head should be clear of the back of that chair !

@lewiswaddo5045

2 жыл бұрын

Haha I’m no giant. I always assumed the same regarding chairs, and had found it to be the case with hard wood or leather chairs. This chair is foam filled, similar material to foam used in room treatment. For me, it massively improved the sound of my system. Perhaps my room was lacking in the sound treatment beforehand 😂

@lewiswaddo5045

2 жыл бұрын

@@shane6326 hehe I thought the same. I’ve always avoided anything high backed. Honestly this chair did the trick, an absolute fluke of a setup. Imaging increased exponentially, soundstage improved, absolute game changer. Completely contrary to my own expectations.

@shane6326

2 жыл бұрын

@@lewiswaddo5045 well dude I guess I learned something new today about those chairs ! I’m glad it works for you and I wouldn’t easily disagree with a guy called Lewis since that’s my surname! 😉😎…. My last name ie🍻 From one Lewis to another, it’s all about the music in the end! Right brother??!!👍

@lewiswaddo5045

2 жыл бұрын

@@shane6326 it’s a great name, and I like your logic! 🤣

An under-discussed factor to soundstage size and scale: the volume you listen at! Paul McGowan even mentioned once noting down the volume level for his favorite recordings that achieved what he thought was appropriate scale for each recording.

@pauls2099

2 жыл бұрын

This is true. Volume has a lot to do with it. I also think a system with too large a soundstage can be dialed in using proper speaker placement techniques

Great video as always Thomas. Such a joy hearing you share your stories and wisdom. Especially for a newbie such as myself

I really enjoy your approach to music and tech because it is conversational, entertaining, practical, and not jaded. Your practical approach challenges the breakdown of bias and the usually expected snobbery. I would be honored to have friends such as yourself and your listening buddies because you all individually seek the truth, integrity, and high standards... while punching holes in the tradional audiophile pretentious snobbery... but not at the expense of insult and hurt feelings. You supply a "safe space" in which experience is honored and respected... while at the same time by allowing the newbie the dignity to fail and learn without destroying their eager--if sometimes overly zealous intensity. In otherwords, the music is important, the science and technology always are intriguing and challenging... but you are always there to humanly tie it altogether in order to bring it down to earth...you always seem to have an inside joke going on with just enough "tongue in cheek" to keep it not only practical and on point and thought provoking,--but also fun and playful... while encouraging yourself and others, not to take themselves too seriously and spoil the enjoyment of the hobby in the process. Please keep your approach in tack... classics, like ethics and high values never lose fashion... but arrogant know-it-alls do because they are out of place and ruin the enjoyment for others... thank you! Oh, and by the way--not only the lips... but the teeth and the tongue, along with the diaphramic breath control. 😉

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the nicely written comment. It was heart warming and I really appreciate it.

@russmaleartist

2 жыл бұрын

paths crossed!

@russmaleartist

2 жыл бұрын

@@ThomasAndStereo It is always easy for me to appreciate and stick to the truth... the truth in all my words is simply to give credit, respect, and acknowledgement of what is due another individual... thank you for your kind response! So glad our paths crossed!

Great video as usual Thomas! Got some great ideas to try with my two system’s! So many thanks for that!

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Great to hear!

It took me more than two years moving and matching equipment to get the soundstage you are describing. My total equipment investment is about $3200. No room treatments- Just Bookshelfs and furniture in a 14'x14' room. Again, this was a two year journey experiencing many disappointments. Still waiting for your book to be published. I will be the first requesting a signed copy.🤞

@12P14D22C

2 жыл бұрын

without room treatment its very unlikely that your soundstage is anywhere near perfect. i never listened to your system and i was wrong before so ... trust your ears more then my ass pulls but i just wanted to give you another little hit into the direction of thinking about where accoustic treatment can be done and doesnt hurt the room. there are many ways to treat the room in some way, alot of individual things but they pay out big time in the end. best of luck with your system!

Thank you very much for this video! I arranged my speaker in my room a Little bit different like before… now I have THE Stage!

Quality content very pleasant to watch. Thank you for taking the time to make new video. Greetings from 🇬🇧 J

Love your videos.very down to earth presentation

Nice chat Thomas, its a good thing to continue...it also sparked interesting comments.

Thanks for the playlist! Much appreciated!

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

You bet!

@ferdi9554

2 жыл бұрын

@@ThomasAndStereo btw broccoli for a week it's not that bad! Healthy diet shouldn't be a punition!

hello new viewer here, been a car guy most of my life and i'm looking at you audiophile hobbyists and it's very accommodating how similar you people behave, i am talking about your anecdotal stories of min maxing [from video games] and a/b testing and trying out new equipment though i believe your methods are crude compared to automotive engineering i see potential and maybe one day i can create a perfect speaker for my own anyway thanks for your hobby videos hopefully i will utilize the knowledge in those and from other resources on this rabbit hole of a hobby! Cheers.

I think another more consistent way is to treat your room properly with quadratic diffusers, provided you have an expert doing it for you since there is no guessing with acoustics.

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I made a video on how I treated my room. kzread.info/dash/bejne/nn6tw7qdk5m4iJM.html

Great discussion, Thomas. Those KEF 105 speakers are responsible for starting my obsession in hi-fi, forty years ago!

Much appreciated Thomas, that was an eye opener in my case. After a little under a year of owning my speakers, I'm still moving things around. In the beginning the singers were giants so the speakers had to be further apart. Thanks to a tip you gave in a previous video. Now I've learnt more. Love these videos Thomas, they really help. I mean what's the use of spending so much money to buy the gear just to set it up it all wrong and have Schitt sound.

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful.

A big yes to more discussion videos!

Thanks for this discussion Mr. Thomas. I ended up moving one speaker ahead of the other after your video, in my uneven room and WOW!

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Nice, it is incredible when the imaging locks in solid.

Thomas let me tel you, I watched that vidoe of Ron last week. And that did wonders. Learning every time from you guy's. Thank for this lesson.

Another fantastic video! I think you’re really onto something with these discussion videos. Equipment reviews are helpful and can be fun, but these discussions really serve to further the hobby, not just move product. Also, I have to say that your discussion (and reviews as well) are so thoughtful, insightful, genuine, and just plain refreshing; a stark contrast to so many of these so-called audiophile KZread-ers - (one in particular who claims to be in “recovery”). I never find myself questioning your sincerity or feeling like I’m being sold a bill of goods. And, lastly, (at least for today) I find the way you compare and contrast the way Asian (and Chinese in particular) audiophiles value certain sonic characteristics of audio reproduction, and the words they use to describe them, insightful and fascinating. I have NEVER in my 35 years of Western audiophilia heard some describe seeing the lips of the singer or critiquing whether the singer sounds not only the right size, but also the right age! It’s so basic and completely brilliant. This type of insight and discussion is EXACTLY what this community needs. Thank you for all you do!!

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Dan for the feedback, I really appreciate it and I hope to make more videos like these. The fear is always if people will accept this unconventional way to talk about audio.

@dannyfannyfoodle

2 жыл бұрын

@@ThomasAndStereo If anyone can prove the concept, it’s you. Whether the others can replicate it? I’m dubious.

I always look forward to a new Thomas video, specially the discussion type. I give the price for the most important and interesting audiophile video on KZread to Thomas & Stereo's "Just Right" discussion video called "What does a high-end DAC has to offer? Meitner audio MA-1 DAC (Not a review)" ! This and Steve Gutenberg's are the top audiophile channels. Keep up the good work!

Great video! Very interesting. Being honest with yourself and what you want out of your system is probably the best approach. I know I'm going to get a lot of flak for this...., but my soundstage/my system really opened up after I replaced a couple of stock power cords and a couple of stock fuses with higher-end options in my equipment. I already had everything else pretty much like I wanted it, and my room was pretty acceptable, so the components that received the upgrades in the chain really stood out.

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

No flak from me :)

Great video, thanks Thomas!

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

My pleasure!

Thanks for your work. I appreciate and value all the information your share. I loved this particular piece.

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks , maybe I should make more discussion videos.

@Darobalmr

2 жыл бұрын

@@ThomasAndStereo please do. I honestly learned a few important lessons from this one in particular. Mad love from Mexico!

Amazing video. Thank you so much for sharing 👍.

Great topic, great video. My biggest improvement was upgrading from Node 2i to a Lumin streamer. Big difference!! I do have one of those irregular shaped rooms and I’m left constantly trying to angle the speakers and never seem to get it right......

Told IT once will say it again, love this kind of video's, stories are perspectives, perspectives are option and new possibolities 😉 also nice to know what happend with the A2, wanted to share IT with a friend 🙂

Absolutely. My desk setup is a pair of Klipsch R-15M and 15w monoprice amp. There are tracks that make it sound like the singer’s head is somewhere just behind my monitors. It isn’t the most pristine sound but proper positioning can yield some pretty impressive results with probably a lot more gear than some might think.

I couldn’t add a second and a third like. I enjoyed this video again. I’ll be watching some of your older videos. Remember who you are 😊

Hi Thomas. As always, a very thoughtful, balanced and entertaining discussion. For me it was the switch to open baffle speakers that made the most impact on sound stage in my room. Spatial Audio M3 Sapphires. They are worth investigating - especially if you know and love he sound of an actual piano. For this music lover of 55 years the next change will necessitate architect and builders to modify the house... Thanks for your excellent input to the conversation. As always, greetings to you and yours.

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Yean, I need to try open bade one day.

Experience based anecdotes are super interesting and useful. Thanks.

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

I thought about your take on rooms that are assymmetrical. Many of us who don't have a dedicated audio room have this problem. So now I changed my listening position to the left of my previous 'central' position, move 1 spkr further away from the front wall and tilt/toe-in both differently with respect to the front wall. So basically, I rotated the whle triangle clockwise. I would say that overall depth of the soundstage changed, can't tell for better or worse. But I'll certainly experiment further with the toe-in and observe the effect. Thanks for the heads up!

Totally agree Thomas. to me room treatment is extremely important. while i have good soundstage due to my room's small size & irregular shape my soundstage is limited. Once i get my room treatment sort i believe it will be as good as it will get.

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, in my case, the center image is rock solid after I treated my room.

Thomas Perhaps your penchant for tube pres is related to 𝙥𝙤𝙬𝙚𝙧𝙛𝙪𝙡 comments I noted that Nelson Pass stated... He discovered negative phase 2nd harmonic increases soundstage dimensionality and image specificity. Pass also concluded in-phase 3rd harmonic improves dynamic presentation. There's much more, but the salient elements; "𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘯𝘦𝘨𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘷𝘦-𝘱𝘩𝘢𝘴𝘦 𝘴𝘦𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘥 𝘧𝘰𝘴𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘴 𝘢𝘯 𝘪𝘭𝘭𝘶𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘰𝘧 𝘦𝘹𝘱𝘢𝘯𝘥𝘦𝘥 𝘴𝘱𝘢𝘤𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘭𝘰𝘤𝘢𝘭𝘪𝘻𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯, 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘺𝘮𝘮𝘦𝘵𝘳𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘭 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘳𝘥 𝘴𝘦𝘦𝘮𝘴 𝘵𝘰 𝘪𝘮𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘷𝘦 𝘥𝘺𝘯𝘢𝘮𝘪𝘤𝘴" As I recall he affixed an un-labeled control on the face of a prototype amplifier, allowed others to enjoy the amp and then explain which switch position they preferred and why. I believe such exploration and findings are essentially the impetus driving his First Watt designs. Thanks for the content, I really dig the anecdotal story time.

The most intellectual HIFI reviewer and commentator. Always thought-provoking.

For me a properly speakers setup impact the soundstage the most.

@irzyxelwj

2 жыл бұрын

I hear you. It can be a profound change. I set up speakers in a room once and thought I had everything right. It had been a long day and went to sleep. Got up the next day and something just wasn't right. Re-measured and was off by a half inch on each speaker. Made all the difference.

@NBK6KP9

2 жыл бұрын

@@irzyxelwj yup.. and it's free😂😂😂

@irzyxelwj

2 жыл бұрын

@@NBK6KP9 I tell you what, audio is cheaper than what trouble it keeps me away from. My family at least recognizes that. Left to my own devices I'm no angel heh!

@latheofheaven

2 жыл бұрын

@@irzyxelwj Sounds like there is a SERIOUS story there! :D HEADLINES: Audio Keeps Man From Mass Murder! Apparently the secret to controlling this man's desire for mass killing is an obscure Asian Audiophile on KZread. He says that every time he gets the urge to kill, this KZreadr always says in his video, 'You will have to wait until the end for the answer' And, according to this man, he is compelled to wait until the end of the video until the powerful killing urges subside. On a side note, many have been know to hang themselves waiting for this mysterious KZreadr TO GET TO THE POINT!!!

@irzyxelwj

2 жыл бұрын

@@latheofheaven more or less

Great video as always thanks Thomas

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it

Living in a attached house, I have a lot space but it's narrow. I placed my speakers 2.5 feet away from my sofa. Imaging is amazing, I can feel that I am in the front row of a concert or I could touch the singer. Because I don't have space behind the sofa, my soundstage is kind of limited. So I am trying to find another set-up more suitable.

This is one of my favourite video from you, even compared to Ron, Steve, Taran, Sean and Jay, this IS a very "en-point" video on soundstage and imaging, which arguably is the most important criteria for a "healthy" audio system. This video is almost on par with John's "X" video that he has learnt in 10 years, in terms of valuable understanding and expectations on how to get the best buck for your system. Thank you Thomas. The idea of getting the right speaker for the room is so so so so so true. A reviewer may sing high praise of a speaker, but it can sound awful in your room (I've learnt that the hard way). So it's not the speaker, it's not even your room, it's the matchingness of these 2 elements. The same speaker that sucked in my home, sounded jaw-dropping in my training room (4 times bigger) because the speaker has a "long throw" and the bass is booming the room perfectly. Thank you for planning your video content for hobbyists like us.

Great video I really appreciate it

Great vid Thomas. Keep it up!

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Appreciate it!

Been following audio-related stuff heavily for the past half year or so. Each video I watched brought up another item to add to a 'to do list'. Till at some point I just shook my head and went to an audio store to listen to a set amount of speakers. The differences I heard there weren't quite as big between some, yet very big between others. At the end of the day I went home with a pair of Focal Aria's 926. It's easy to get lost in this audio-hobby world, and to other people trying to get into this hobby best to just take it step by step. I don't have expensive speaker cables, a 5k$ amp and dac combo or a specific living space set up just for audio-related things. But a lot of these things can be worked towards over the months/years. Step by step. Thank you for these insight vids!

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Nice speakers, I really enjoyed my 936 too.

So glad I found your channel!!

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Welcome to my channel!

Tube pre. is a good reason for great soundstage. In my room I do not place the speakers in the typical triangle. I have them a little wider and I do not toe them in that much. Maybe 15%. I also think that standmount speakers disappear more easy that other speakers. Thanks for the video.

Sound stage for me is all about speaker placement , width and toe in. There’s something special about sitting in the sweet spot listening to a good recording close your eyes and hearing where all the musicians are.

Another thought provoking video. Must be great to have few good audio buddies to compare notes and get inspired.

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I am fortunate.

Nice video and very audiophile ... For desired soundstage all the audio setup should be consistent, balanced, and also the room is very important. I reach the "soundstage nirvana" without real preamp, without room treatment, with almost the same setup only with the source changed and for final touch I change the DAC who fixed all the "books" in real "toys" around my head....Next step could be, for my point of view a real preamp in place, to saw is something happened and to finalize a USB cable choice. In the next few days I will listen USB cables from 50 usd to 1500 usd without Nordost and mooooree expensive ones. Also I play with expensive setups and low budget like your friend, and YES, the biggest joy is to have very good sound with low budget gear, even DYI "tools" .... Cheers Mr Thomas

@HariPrasad9999

2 жыл бұрын

Hi, which Dac are you using ?

Good question. I think sound stage is most impacted by the recorded music and then by the source. In my case a digital streamer with triode output. Just cleaning up the clock signal has a huge impact on sound stage. Of course the rest of the system has to be well resolved. Everything matters. I have a switch on the amps to change feedback. Big change on the sound stage. Less is more btw.

The great thing about building speakers is that you don't have to worry about matching, just tweak the speakers for the amp etc. That said I always tweak my speakers to be able to "see" the words come out of their mouth. And Sada is an excellent voice to test that. If I can't "see" her mouth, my speakers suck. So I will tweak them till I do. And after doing this stuff for so long I know how I can do it. I do it with the crossover and acoustically by tweaking my (unique) acoustic gap under my single driver speakers for treble and med. Ther is a small gap between the driver and the box and the speaker hole is also treated with a shallow bass vent tube. This extends treble and bass and makes a voice sound to die for. Am I crazy? With an a-b test with normally mounted drivers I clearly favour the open sound and increased soundstage of the semi open cone. It also brings tube like ambiance. More spacial and I can easily "see" their mouth.

I moved the electronics out and off to one side for speaker scale sake. Doesn't cost a dime and you just may hear a difference. Good one Thomas

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, my friend wants to do the same. Sadly for him it will cost a bit as he needs to get a long XLR cable to do it.

@tothemax324

2 жыл бұрын

@@ThomasAndStereo XLR cable? No added cost to some, I guess

Hi Thomas, I actually prefer discussions over reviews, it gives a lot more insight into how to get the most of what you have and it doesn't cost any more. Take Care

Great video Thomas! A tall room opened my eyes to scale with revel M22 speakers. Really depends on the speaker IMHO. Other speakers work better in "normal sized" rooms. Full range single drivers seem to work best of best in small and medium rooms. Amazing how much mid range is covered up by woofers.

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, it really depends on the room.

Nice job Thomas . I was listening to Neil youngs greatest hits HDCD and Wow !! My soundstage came alive and was chasing me around the room 😆

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

The Doge 10 should give you good soundstage.

@tee-jaythestereo-bargainph2120

2 жыл бұрын

@@ThomasAndStereo Amazing for pricepoint. When i listen to Michael Jacksons thriller At the first of the song MJ opens a door and walks across the stage I can hear those footsteps go across my room in between my speakers from left to right! Spooky Stage !! Also i can hear Susan Wongs saliva sticking to her lips when she sings melts me into ! California Dreaming 😆

I would never fall asleep on you Thomas everything you say interests me greatly. This was a fantastic video and again as usual I've learnt a lot from it. Starting to think that my Wilson audio Sasha's might be a little big for my room now. I've recently removed my watchdog series 2 subwoofer. And lo and behold less energy in my room and better bass response. So what I may end up with here is a very expensive coffee table 😂 I'm about to get pretty serious with room treatment which I'm hoping will help specially in the bass area. As with most relatively small rooms, room mode issues in the lower frequencies are the biggest thing I'm dealing with now. My room is 4.5 m wide by 3.6 m deep with 2.5 m ceiling height. So interesting times ahead I'm looking forward to seeing what can happen with some good well positioned diffusion and bass traps. Really enjoyed this video Thomas, and I agree from a production point of you it's easier but for me just as informative to throw in a few discussion videos like this.👍🎧😁

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, let me know how it after you treat your room. As I mentioned in my room treatment video, the bass trap made a world of difference for me.

Hi, I followed your recommendation for the VMV A1 and I still cannot believe how good it sounds in my setup, I am using the Shiit Freya + as preamp. This has replaced a Audio Rearch 5se and a PS Audio 250 Signature. Crazy? No, I am 60 now and have been an audiophile since age 12. Money will not always buy you better sound. And the engineers in China have done a great job.

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Wow, glad you enjoyed it.

Excellent video! In my experience there are two kinds of high level soundstage presentations. One is the traditional: we can see the lips moving, the drumskin vibrating, and able to portray smaller scale music with pinpoint accuracy. The other (Altec / big horns, or big omnidirectional speakers) can project a whole orchestra or a big rock soundstage accurately. For example, you know whether you are at the first row or on the balcony, and you can hear the singers moving on the stage in every direction - back and front, left to right, kneel down, and hear as they turn as the sing. Well, you an hear this with pinpoint-speakers as well, but there you hear small puppets in a confined space and not flesh and blood human size beings on a real stage. Or, you are at an actual Pink Floyd concert in a big arena, in the crowd, not listening to tiny porcelain people shouting and playing on your carpet. The Altec way projects small scale music bigger than life. Yet, I have to say when I close my eyes, its presentation of singers and instruments is closer to real instruments / real people talking in the room than the hyper-pinpoint-holographic presentation of common speakers - real people / instruments do not sing / play with hyper-realism nor holography - the live sound projects and radiates, it is not held in a confined space. The pinpoint-projector speakers create a miniature rendering of a full orchestra - while very exciting, it's nothing like a real orchestra or the representation of orchestra by big horns. I personally prefer the big Altec way as its scale is more life-like, but also have a second system for the smaller scale projection with "regular" speakers, which cannot deliver large scale but excel at intimate moments. I think the two imaging methods are complementing each other, varietas delectat, with very different perspectives and different moods. One night I want to be at the opera, and another morning I want to listen to the archlute in quiet contemplation.

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for commenting and I really enjoy your videos too. Thanks for sharing this this also gave me something to think about.

@realworldaudio

2 жыл бұрын

@@ThomasAndStereo Hi Thomas, the best aspect of the audio journey is to share knowledge and experience, and find like-minded friends. You also give me a lot to think about, and have a superb equipment review style that is very helpful for audiophiles at all levels. Janos

Very informative sir. I believe tube in output stage (power amp low watts) and solidstate pre amplifier makes better realism in my system. I hv learned rational speaker placement from Bob robin... I m very passionate on spending hours on speakers placement and little tone setting.

For those that are wondering whats the first song Thomas was talking about, seach "Bei Yi Wang De Shi Guang"

Love the arcade machine behind you ;)

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Me too!

I had few substantial differences felt in a good way. 1. Speakers with proper positioning 2. DAC, the source has to be of a good quality!

Go Thomas ! Yes Scale is where we get Real… I’m trying to use crossovers to achieve.

Mr vintage sounds like he knows what he is doing .....thank u Thomas for being honest. Greetings from Greece.

Agree with speaker positioning (but the asymmetry can drive one nuts!). I think the most vital bit is to have friends who can sit down, listen and fine tune with you. Not fun moving speakers alone. Lol.

Over the years, people have gone away from a "system" and now so many homes will just have a Bluetooth speaker of some sort. The age of instant and easy gratification. Just no! The audio experience has vanished from too many lives! You can spend $200 on used vintage gear and it's miles better. I actually got a guy into audio by doing just that. Bought some pieces and parts and told him if he doesn't like it - it's free. He paid me what I paid and he was over the moon happy. Said he spent the entire weekend listening to music for the first time since he was a kid. I'm so glad there are people like Thomas here putting out helpful videos so people may enjoy and continue to enjoy audio. It's meant to be an experience you feel, those pesky emotions aren't always a hindrance as much as I deny it. Keep enjoying, people.

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

wow, that is really nice of you. Also, thanks.

Single driver/ open baffle speakers have been my greatest epiphany as far as soundstage is concerned.

I had a Proceed avp preamp until it went down. I had so much fun listening to it compare to the one i have been using. i wish someone has a circuit board. One of the board is burnt due to couple of blown capacitors.

It's a great pleasure to watch your videos and I have a question,if you may answer,fyne audio 501 floor standers or the monitor audio silver 500 7g,being in Australia where the prices are almost 3 times the price ,I don't really want to make to make the wrong choice at these prices.thanks.

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

I have never heard either but the Silver 500 is more on the lively side of things.

Fantastic!

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Many thanks!

Changing my speakers to off axis opened up my soundstage while maintaining the imaging.

Hi Thomas, loved the discussion- thank you! With your extensive experience can you recommend which pair I should get for my Marantz SR-5012? Triangle Antal XS, Monitor Audio Silver 500 7G or Focal Chora 826? Or a totally different brand? I have a 10x10 living room and cannot audition. Thanks in advance.

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Those speakers seems to have similar sound characteristic so whichever one should work. Only thing is a question of synergy with the Marantz.

Definitely a good preamp, a tube one if possible!

Thomas, great video. Which song in the 蔡琴 - 民歌 album are you referring to?

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/i2SIlrOFnb2eYqQ.html

Great video discussion Thomas. Do you think there’s a trade off between soundstage and weight of tones within the soundstage? In other words, the bigger the soundstage (where instruments are placed or perceived to be well outside the speakers) the leaner the sound of instruments? Thanks.

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Good question, I never paid attention to that. In the future, I will.

+1 for tube preamp

what are those white boxes in the back of Mr. Vintage's setup?

With my point source semi open cone speakers, the sound seems to be comig from everywhere except the speakers.

What about the other extreme? when I listen to the typical small dome tweeter the "mouth" sits on a horizontal line 1" high. It might get a nice horizontal fixed position for imaging. But instead of being too high/ large, it is only that thin line. And then the position blur at crossover points. When I got back into Maggies a few years ago my son (he has a good system himself) said after literally seconds of hearing them that he now knew what was wrong with every other speaker system he has ever listened to. Yes especially with the recording micing you can get a 6' mouth. But if you go to most performances it will have a sound reinforcement system with a 10' mouth. But when I get a really good mic'ed vocal (e.g. Red Headed Stranger, Willie Nelson) you can see his tonsils!

Hey Thomas. At this point I'm starting to do the math for room acoustic calculations because I can appreciate that experimenting can only take one so far. This video was great; I believe you. Edit: I'm hearing a lot lately (maybe I'm focussing on it more?) about the power of room acoustics. Gene and his team is doing that with guests like Anthony Grimaldi over at Audioholics. There are other channels. I think that this is a growth area, especially for sound lovers who are ready to mature into an untapped area. I used to work in a boutique electronics shop in Toronto back in the day (Kromer Radio), and although sure that our top guys knew about it, I never heard anything about it. So yeah, I want to maximize the most import thing I have, my space, because my audio equipment is good enough for now (NAD amps, flagship YAMAHA AVR, PSB Image XT2 towers, etc). I have a small 300 sq. ft. perfectly L-shaped space. The "L" is 11' 'thick' and 19' in the two directions. Easy enough to visualize. So it's narrow, especially when you consider the virtual hallway space, so it means we only have 8 feet of play space for the speakers, outside to outside. I have experienced what for me is a satisfying soundstage. In fact, I really like it considering the room constraints. The speakers (front-ported narrow towers placed very close to the back and side walls, like a foot away each side) are about 6.5' apart at the center of the drivers, and oriented slightly asymmetrically (both in toe in and position) depending on listening positions. So I appreciated your point about asymmetry. It makes a noticable difference, but I find acoustic panelling makes for even a greater impact on the soundstage. I noticed a few touched on that point. Of course all things taken together, right? I don't have to tell you about panelling, but in my little experience the image becomes more focussed and apparent, sound is more dynamic (because of the reflections are being addressed) in a sweet way, all the while still maintaining the large stage. About the imaging. I like it. Voice is about the size I'd expect (eyes closed), and stays between the speakers even if I'm sitting on axis in front of one of them. But I can't see the lips or imagine walking around the artist/group. I have a Yamaha flagship AVR and really, really enjoy the DSP sound fields, especially Jazz Cellar with jazz music. With the upper front presence speakers playing only the reflected sound of the back wall of the space (while the mains play only the sound as recorded, no DSP - that's how Yamaha works), the stage lifts up (which I like) and moves waaay back behind the back wall of my room. It's really, really nice for me. But then again as you mentioned, I notice the image widens (the singers head becomes wider). I know that you weren't speaking about Yamaha DSP effect, so I'm just saying.

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Nice, thanks for sharing your experience. I need to experience more with DSP, I actually just bought a unit I think is called miniDSP.

@nickburak7518

2 жыл бұрын

@@ThomasAndStereo No need to reply, T. I'm looking at one of their products as well. Would love to see your video on the use case. I'm considering bi-amping down the road, as Paul Barton speaks to the advantages but doesn't provide instruction, naturally. I think it requires some understanding and purpose. What's your experience with the practice? If you address this down the road in some video (and I'll check to see if you have already), that would be great. Also, do you see yourself maybe going down the road of adding an instructional component to your videos (not that you need to, but I mean less so through story-telling or equipment reviews and more about this idea of maximizing what we already have). I'd like to learn more about equipment matching with an eye to room treatments and things like DSP, bi-amping. If an amp is a great amp and a speaker is a great speaker, despite the special sonic blend, should they not offer an attractive presentation nevertheless? (I know, I know! Can of worms! Lol). But at my level it just doesn't make sense. It seems like the fuss (yes, this neophyte is saying fuss) is the bane of the audiophile world. Isn't it really? Or do I need to go to my room? I mean, of course you may need choose a suitable amp for the speakers/space so that it drives the potential while remaining stable, but other than that?

Thomas, Thanks for sharing us with a few details on soundstage. Can you tell us the name of CD you mentioned that is useful for testing soundstage?

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Any song that is recorded well and focus on vocal.

Thanks man! Excellent video! Thanks for including setup cds. I hope to make my systems even better with some of those👍 What were the white modules behind Mr. Vintage's systems... batteries modules? It's amazing that he can turn used systems into Master systems. Did you buy the Girshmans?

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Those are for power, I have to ask him again, I did not buy the Gershman since I will never have time to listen to those if I do.

@LuxAudio389

2 жыл бұрын

@@ThomasAndStereo the owner of GR Research did a video and basically said battery power is the way to go since its always consistent and doesn't get affected by noisy AC based on surroundings (city,neighbors, buildings...). He said batteries and power cables mainly make a difference with source equipment (dac,preamp, etc..)Not so much of an impact for amps when compared to the source equipment. DarTZeel`s preamp uses a battery for power, they last 10-12 hours. Let us know what kind of batteries in your next info video✌️👍

Have you tried a Schumann Resonance Generator? It elevates the 3D to a new scale of optimization. I have a Zero Zone that uses a supplied (3) PSVane 6J1 tube. I’ve added silver cables to optimize my unit.

Greetings Thomas. Another worth watching video. Good one. However, I wonder if those audiophile quality traits IMO should come holistically. My experience with clean & good power isolation (when applied correctly) DOES make significant contribution. Ideally, when such things achieved, one might get 3 dimensionality with details spreading across that imaginary dimension (hence my comment of ‘musically analytical’ on your synergy video). As for scale issue, isn’t that strongly related to the mic positioning during recording (eg. Carla Bruni - French Touch, which has extremely close mic positioning that contributes to this ‘scale issue’ IMO, it does so on my system compared to many others such as Norah Jones - Come Away With Me)? Anyway, keep up the good work. Thanks for sharing!

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, great comments and something for me to think about too. When I talk about scale, I mean it applies to all in general and not record specific. If you listen to a system with incorrect scale, all recordings will sound like the singer is too big.

System synergy is key. I like detail but I always look for a warm smooth sound when putting together a system.

We love your stories 😬

Also, does just adding a sub (or two) to standmount speakers correct the scaling issue, if things are a little small in the room, or will the sound still be small, but with big bass?

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

I don't remember it does but I have forest again

Tried it . Seeing the lips of the vocalist. I swear I could hear the singer turn her head as she was singing. The sound seemed to move only inches. Very cool.

Highly precise positioning seems to be paramount, provided that the speakers themselves don't have time or diffraction issues. This is extremely easy tondemonstrate in a small listening room such as mine which measures 10'x10'. Magnepans can vanish and present shocking depth, width that wraps around you, and not lose focus. Move one corner of a speaker 2mm and the illusion is broken.

@AdrianJFabre

2 жыл бұрын

To clarify, I propose that the margin of error imcreases as all important dimensions increase.

As always Thomas great video to add on top of the other awesome ones from the past that being said I think this is very informative because it's as I always say. It's important to have good products but if one has no knowledge or patience experiencing speaker placement, you might as well invest in some good headphones and forget spending thousands of dollars on something that will not reach a sub 1000$ system with a proper setup.

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks 👍

I can’t talk about preamps or gear because I haven’t owned enough. But, pulling my speaker away from the wall and adding treatments to my room have made big changes in soundstage. Having bass traps in the corner, carpet on the floor, curtains and plants behind speakers are all things that made a big difference.

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, especially pulling the speakers away from the wall.

@robk5745

2 жыл бұрын

@@ThomasAndStereo agreed, mine are 3.5 feet away, wish I could get them out 5 or 6 feet but no room lol

I had a square room , optonica sa5206. And cheap, $ 69 per pair realistic mc1200 speakers. Mounted on custom shelves exactly 6 ft high, and exactly centered on opposing wall, and it was kickass hi fi

Base on this discussion, please what about the AVR that comes with the calibration tool, like the Yamaha YPAO, won't it give the best?

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Usually those calibration tool do help to improve certain things but there is a limit. For example, it does not solve the first point of reflection problem. If you don't solve that, your center image will never be laser sharp.

In my experience, Toe in angle is what you need to play with. If you create an equilateral triangle with your speakers and point the tweeters right at your ears, you will get the correct 'size' of the singer.

@kibreddy

2 жыл бұрын

Check out my system, I value imaging over everything else in a system. I am going to buy a serious power amp and connect it direct to my Chord DAC, look at the Cambridge Audio Edge. You should review it : kzread.info/dash/bejne/rIqluamio5XThJc.html

Good stuff!

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it

It looks like you covered some parts of the Sumiko Master set speaker placement in this discussion.(Bob Robbins perfected it). I am still a little baffled, why its not a more common knowledge, at least among audiophiles. If u ask me, this guide should be delivered with every sirious speaker which is being sold. Kind Regards!

Cool.I think I will get test cd. I noticed a big improvement retubing my PL PA with GL platinum grades from Upscale Audio.The PL amp is very sensitive re sound stage etc to the V1 tube 12ax7.EG the Tung Sols were way too bright ;while the stock tubes were really dull.The GLs just right. In my system the recording quality makes a huge difference.There are some REALLY bad recordings out there!But some great ones as well.David Foster does an especially good job on recordings.eg Josh Groban ,Il Divo et al .Josh appears in the room! I only use digital sources with a Vincent hybrid pre amp (with tone controls and loudness.)

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Cool, GL platnium, have to try it one day.

@toddhupp

2 жыл бұрын

@@ThomasAndStereo Upscale tests and burns in the tubes.A little more expensive but you get top quality and matching from them.Kevin's youtube videos are fun.

I'm happy with my sound but thinking of adding a second sub. Rel to balance the low end. But the sub I have they stop selling so Im concerned about 2 different sub makers. Should I be concerned ?

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Email REL and ask them.

@Musicman369

2 жыл бұрын

Thxs, my def tech supercube has been good, but after listening to Audioholics stated Id get bettter bslance with 2 v 1. My system halographics are soacturate I sometimes get up to check and make sure my center channel is off. Lol

speaking of soundstage , I would enjoy a review of the MBL 6010 preamp clone . Supposedly have an amazing soundstage.