Say it with me: not agreeing with the trans people doesnt mean youre transphobic (unless its something actually transphobic)

@souu__.

2 жыл бұрын

👏👏

@AyYoWinston

2 жыл бұрын

Facts

@antoinjohnson4146

2 жыл бұрын

You’re right lol, disagreeing with Trans and Homosexuals just means we disagree lol, we’re not stopping you from doing what you agree with so why do they care if people disagree and not discriminating. Ps. They should probably form a trans league for the physical sports

@Aj-cv1jp

2 жыл бұрын

@@antoinjohnson4146 facts

@Ilikeavocados123

2 жыл бұрын

💅💅💅

Comparing puberty to drinking a protein shake once is actual insanity Ngl

@bryanhawkins9418

3 ай бұрын

Thank you. I was going to speak on that statement too. Also, it's dangerous for trans athletes to be outed as trans, therefore let them compete against women?? Horrible logic.

@johanvoellner1849

Ай бұрын

u think?

"It shouldn't matter if your male or female." How can a Trans person say that? Do they not realize the inconsistency in that? The irony?

@birthemuller7310

9 ай бұрын

The entire ideology is riddled with inconsistencies. Just look at how they label the trans men as "male" and the trans woman as "female", even though according to the gender ideology sex and gender are different. Therefore Afton is still male and Sydney and Matt are still female. But I guess Jubilee just doesn't want to be considered tRaNsPhObIc

@blk5124

9 ай бұрын

@@birthemuller7310 I could not agree more. The whole thing is astounding!

@donnamarie33

8 ай бұрын

yeah obvi it matters a great deal in sports. a trans person who transitions and fits in well as the other gender prob won’t have their sex be relevant in a ton of situations but sports is 100% one of them.

@annaleigh2413

8 ай бұрын

@@birthemuller7310the idea of sex and gender being different is as simple as sex being what someone is born as, while gender being what you identify as. Hence the term “cisgender” meaning identifies as their sex assigned at birth. It has nothing to do with being labeled “male” and “female.” I see a failure in your logic.

@birthemuller7310

8 ай бұрын

@@annaleigh2413 yes, I know.

It doesn’t matter how many hours you train, you have a biological advantage!!!!

@mrsmith7936

Жыл бұрын

i know that was a mad thing to say, he's training male parts its more of a thing to keep quiet about

@forkscr3w

Жыл бұрын

@@mrsmith7936 she*

@macdeluxe733

Жыл бұрын

B.... b.... but... you had a protein shake!!!

@hemlockprimaryschool5890

Жыл бұрын

This was the most insane comment. Maybe the green haired person doesn’t understand the definition of an advantage.

@someones_here

Жыл бұрын

@@macdeluxe733 😭😭

"Are we going to put people in their own categories by weight?" Quite literally: yes.

@alceratops6853

Жыл бұрын

Imagine a 400 lb strongman against a 130 lb skinny boy in the ring, or vice versa on the track

@potato_dbd

Жыл бұрын

​@@alceratops6853 funny story, similar has happened in wresteling some years ago. The strategy of the skinny guy was to exhaust his opponent, and just took him down.

@mvsmvs8428

Жыл бұрын

@@potato_dbd was that mma cause in boxing that not gonna work very well

@potato_dbd

Жыл бұрын

@@mvsmvs8428 I'm sorry, I have no idea. I've seen in quite a while ago, and I don't care about sports.

@hikerguy3895

Жыл бұрын

There is no middle ground. Chicks with d!cks need to stick to male sports

Alternative title for the video: people trying not to say something that would get them cancelled for 20 minutes straight.

@pnut3844able

2 жыл бұрын

People need to sack up and not cave smh

@3choblast3r4

2 жыл бұрын

When that Asian girl said "I don't want you to be put in a separate category because it would make you feel like you were not what you feel you are, but I also don't believe it's fair that trans women are put in the same group as ... uhh.. women" (paraphrasing) There is nothing wrong with saying that trans people should have their own category but she is worried that it might upset some people when she just says it without contradicting her self and making sure she is safe

@ninjamusic9554

2 жыл бұрын

@@3choblast3r4 trans women should be allowed to compete with cis women. End of story

@metalmoth6608

2 жыл бұрын

@@ninjamusic9554 No they shouldn't, are you an athlete? I doubt it since your pic is anime

@CJParallel

2 жыл бұрын

@@ninjamusic9554 Do you feel that disabled athletes should have to compete against fully abled body athletes. I would hope not because it wouldn't be equal. This is what Cis women are trying to say. Their opinions matter as well. The equal thing would be for trans athletes to compete against trans athletes and they can decide if they want to create two categories for trans men and trans women.

I’d love to see a similar conversation involving biologists, kinesiologists, and other scientists that fully understand and can articulate exactly how transitioning can affect anatomy, body mechanics, strength, stamina, speed and how those things impact competitive balance.

@michaelknight2897

Жыл бұрын

The problem is that Progressive scientist will abandon Professionalism, ethics, and truth for their new age religion.

@leonscott543

Жыл бұрын

They're too afraid of the social backlash. If the world was normal this issue wouldn't even exist because the scientific community would have laid it to rest before it even began

@margaritasytcheva2730

Жыл бұрын

@@michaelknight2897So when an actual professional makes an analysis based on facts and logic but it happens to align with a progressive viewpoint it’s suddenly “abandoning Professionalism?” How convenient. It seems like you’re the type of person who only believes in science when it fits your viewpoint.

@margaritasytcheva2730

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. I see too many people making viewpoints on scientific topics who at best read like a few vague articles without researching the topic fully. To be honest, I think this question should only be answered by actual experts and not by neither liberals or conservatives who claim to know biology.

@michaelknight2897

Жыл бұрын

@@margaritasytcheva2730 there is no such thing as a Progressive expert. Progressives will abandon professionalism, ethics, and truth for their ideology. We see it daily. That is part of the core problem.

This was painful to watch. The non-transgender people were so timid and barely brought up strong points. Push them on their arguments! You can see people are so afraid to say anything to challenge the trans narrative. Put me in the ring on this one.

@RionPhotography

7 ай бұрын

There's literally only one thing to talk about, which is male puberty. That's literally the only thing that causes any problems with the concept of trans athletes.

@wedgeantilles6134

6 ай бұрын

The downfall if you push hard enough these students have scholarships and could be canceled/kicked out of sports

@tonyhoffman3309

5 ай бұрын

Testosterone confers physiological advantage beginning in utero, then again in early childhood when male children go thru prepubertal changes, and in puberty. These physiological differences remain despite cross sex hormones and surgeries.

@ericshort3374

4 ай бұрын

@@RionPhotography which is an issue that can’t morally be tackled. Boys can’t make that type of decision before puberty begins, therefore it’s impossible to make it fair in any moral way.

@jraymond1988

4 ай бұрын

I'm not sure if you'd win or you'd be so aggressive and cringe that people would stop watching the episode. Jubilee often has 1 or 2 of those per video.

I feel like the non transgender athletes were holding back or being extremely careful about what they say so that they wouldn’t be labeled transphobic even though almost everything they said makes logical sense. We need to stop labeling people as “phobic” just because they say something that goes against what you think.

@Markuden

2 жыл бұрын

And thats what they call self censorship and thats when a lot of bad things in history happen.

@sin9324

2 жыл бұрын

Yup

@pardalxxx

2 жыл бұрын

thats true. you can see they talk slowly to not say anything offensive. thats why jordan peterson argument is important "In order to be able to think, you have to risk being offensive"

@dopeeamin

2 жыл бұрын

Pleaseeee preach this 😩

@caliginousmoira8565

2 жыл бұрын

preach! teach! enlighten!

The problem is they are almost exclusively talking about hormones but that isn't the problem. It's the height, lung function, and bone density. Those don't change upon transition.

@whitewhitewhite2446

Жыл бұрын

*vaccine existing* is to *20th booster* AS *running stop signs* is to *T-bone accident*

@flickoftheforce

Жыл бұрын

Yeah but don’t some women have these biological advantages aswell? Otherwise there wouldn’t be any competition in sports if everyone was at the same level???

@whitewhitewhite2446

Жыл бұрын

@@flickoftheforce eedee

@sugar-free-2centz

Жыл бұрын

@@flickoftheforce Some women may have higher levels of x y and z, yes; BUT it will not be many. A huge proportion of men would have the advantage if they transitioned. It's a probability issue.

@minnie2352

Жыл бұрын

@@flickoftheforce For sure, but the gap between women and other women is nothing compared to the gap between women and men. Both Serena and Venus Williams lost to a German male tennis player who ranked around 200th in the world - dude didn't even warm up properly, and he beat them both by himself. National women's soccer teams have lost to teenage boys before. The difference is ridiculous, which is why we have divisions separated by sex, because otherwise you'd rarely ever see a woman in sport.

Feelings don't override reality. You don't get to abuse women athletes just because you feel like it.

@ScreamTatumRiley

8 ай бұрын

Hah?

@rigdby

7 ай бұрын

lol whatever that means

@anotherinternetidiot6300

7 ай бұрын

​@@rigdbyit means that completely altering a female space for a bio male is sexist. Same misogyny, different face.

@treyymacc

7 ай бұрын

Agreed feeling like your a woman and actually being a woman is 2 completely different things its sad when us straight individuals are forced to play into someone's mental illness

@MissionTapasya

6 ай бұрын

Hye guys,please help me form my opinion based on logic and facts I have a question,i stumbled upon a video,where an argument was made that even differences races have different bone density,so why all men teams are not segreted So does anyone has a strong counter argument for that? Please provide factual,and scientific approach to the argument Thanks in advance

The fact that Lia Thomas was ranked in the 400's with the men swimming but then starting winning as soon as he swam against women. That's the winning argument that proves the theory.

@mitchellscheer677

Ай бұрын

100%. Her trying to attribute her success to "happiness" is insane.

@mikapb

Ай бұрын

You could’ve said this without misgendering her. I agree with you, but being blatantly disrespectful makes you sound just as bad.

@MrMoDaddy

16 күн бұрын

@@mikapb How did that classic State Farm commercial go? The one with the Jake guy wearing Khakis?

If we make sports gender neutral, women would lose in about 99% of the cases...

@miriamgrace4172

2 жыл бұрын

soooo true

@-tired_plant-878

2 жыл бұрын

Wait what do you mean?

@Rexyer1

2 жыл бұрын

@@-tired_plant-878 biological advantage

@Lancaster51

2 жыл бұрын

All of the arguments they had were just anecdotes that said they knew some girls that “kicked ass” but had nothing tangible to back it up

@Michael-H23

2 жыл бұрын

@Emmy agreed

Jubilee dropped the ball on this one by not throwing a doctor on both sides. That would be more interesting imo

@TheNinjapancake14

2 жыл бұрын

Doctor athletes?

@WoodiePlays

2 жыл бұрын

Cause there's no doctors available on the trans side LMAO

@KnightGunny

2 жыл бұрын

@@WoodiePlays LMFAAOOOOOO DUDE YOU DONT NEED TO SAY THAT

@enriquedp9356

2 жыл бұрын

@@jas-vr7hx don’t bring gay people into this. We are not one in the same and it’s tiring. You want to debate trans stuff keep it to trans people and not gay people. We have different goals in society.

@user-hq5ge5qj4k

2 жыл бұрын

@@jas-vr7hx why include us everywhere with you trans?i personally don't associate with lgbt community,most of us don't care that much about trans and don't want to be included with them(maybe drag queens care).Stop throwing homophobic everywhere and include us with trans,we don't like it a lot.

“I don’t care if it’s unfair for you, as long as MY feelings don’t get hurt.” -The entire trans sports community

@mikekwon4439

10 ай бұрын

“I don’t care if it’s unfair for you, as long as MY feelings don’t get hurt.” - The entire cis sports community. It’s the same argument either way. Feelings will get hurt regardless of how this decision comes down.

@No_step_on_snake

10 ай бұрын

@@mikekwon4439 do you mean regular people when you say cis?

@kefkapalazzo1

10 ай бұрын

@@mikekwon4439it’s not unfair to them lol it’s totally fair. It’s just not inclusive

@anonymousanonymous2319

10 ай бұрын

@@mikekwon4439 but it's not unfair for trans people

@ryanthomas9306

9 ай бұрын

@@mikekwon4439that’s some narcissism there

you can’t even argue that trans women have an advantage in sports, it’s a fact 😃

@sullivanbiddle9979

9 ай бұрын

transtifa doesn't care about facts

@lukemarson5541

4 ай бұрын

💯the truth!

I really want to see a part 2 with medical professionals to validate facts, rather than listening to anecdotes

@ted396

2 жыл бұрын

they can't tell the truth because they're afraid of losing their jobs.

@gaugelongacre8447

2 жыл бұрын

You're right that is the video we need

@ozymandias8523

2 жыл бұрын

Not even neil dagrasse tayson can say anything because people will cancel him, imagine a normal doctor he would probably lose his job.

@unspecifiedunit9126

2 жыл бұрын

@@ted396 Sadly, this is the reality, they have to appeal to the mob. Bringing in medical experts wouldn’t work as you would expect

@marshaytrue

2 жыл бұрын

I learnt a new word today thank you.

Why are we passing this off as a belief and not something that’s based on reality and backed by science?

@dudeswithacamera1187

2 жыл бұрын

Because that's not how anatomy and biology work

@Dubscr

2 жыл бұрын

@@dudeswithacamera1187 it is?

@MiguelZenin

2 жыл бұрын

EXACLY!

@StyleS_

2 жыл бұрын

@@dudeswithacamera1187 it literally is 😂🤦🏾‍♂️

@strangeanimations2518

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly, if people did their research they would know trans people who have been on hormones for a year or more have about the same capacities and hormonal levels as the gender they transitioned to.

I'm going to scream if someone else says "only 1 trans athlete was a champion". Lia Thomas was not the only champion. Several and I mean several high school track, rugby, biking ,wrestling have been champions over the course of five years. There aren't that many trans women, but by percentage they represent a huge portion of winners in half a decade. We have to look at worldwide data and at all levels. Not just college and pro. Development matters because they are the future college and pro athletes.

@Dreamfyre

8 ай бұрын

There shouldn’t even be one. Create other two categories for trans women and trans men and let them compete against one another without biological advantages or disadvantages.

I feel so bad for these natural athletes who are soo damn careful with what they say so they won't be labeled as 'pHoBiC' how ridiculous and messed up that people continuously refer to people as 'pHoBiC' just because they disagree with what u agree

@donnamarie33

8 ай бұрын

ppl will call other trans ppl who disagree transphobes 😭

@thatmast3r

7 ай бұрын

did ya run the word "phobic" through a random lettercase generator or something my boy?

@rigdby

7 ай бұрын

@@donnamarie33 yes, because trans people can be transphobic. just like how gay people can be homophobic.

@Moonlight-rave

5 ай бұрын

@@rigdbylmao that makes no sense. How are you going to be transphobic but still transition? How are you going to be homophobic but still be gay? An actual homophobic person will shove those urges down as deep as they can. Just because someone says something you don’t agree with, doesn’t mean they’re all of a sudden all of the “phobics” no you can not be gay and homophobic or trans and be transphobic

Omg comparing a protein shake to having natural male hormones is the most ridiculous thing ever!

@meowpoosaymeow

2 жыл бұрын

🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵

@devonmiller113

2 жыл бұрын

Lol it’s literally like saying me taking whey is the same as injecting TRT

@frishter

2 жыл бұрын

Especially when the "woman" looks nothing like a woman. Of course there's an advantage. If it's the hill they're willing to die on, I think we should really ask whether enabling that behaviour is really healthy for society. If they're in denial of reality when it comes to sport, how else are they denying reality?

@flare9866

2 жыл бұрын

@@meowpoosaymeow ok i will compare women to crying cuz of ur female hormones.

@Eryna_

2 жыл бұрын

@@frishter ah yes, my favorite argument, this trans women doesn't look like what I think women look like, therefore they have an advantage in sports. How much you look like stereotypical women doesn't determine your fitness, sorry.

"Are we gonna make categories for CIS athletes?" Yes, yes they have actually. Feather weight, heavy weight, etc, you know why? Because of advantages and disadvantages

@Rein_

Жыл бұрын

i like to play baskedball but I'm short all tall people have an advantedge for me. Are they going to make a league for short baskedball players?

@Ardkun00

Жыл бұрын

We might as well eliminate categories and divisions.

@user-dj7kc2li4c

Жыл бұрын

@@Rein_ Maybe they should. Don’t know who would watch it tho. If I recall correctly then midget basketball does exist and you would fit perfectly there! :)

@spinosaurusstriker

Жыл бұрын

@@Ardkun00 then most cic males would dominate , and I don't know if that's what you want

@Ardkun00

Жыл бұрын

@@spinosaurusstriker That way trans-cheaters won't get anything at the very least.

I’m convinced that the trans roller derby person just wants an excuse to beat up women

@SensationallySilky

8 ай бұрын

I doubt it - and I say that as a current player. We have several leagues in a drivable area that often converge with co-ed scrimmages and most of us use the opportunity to play with bigger/better/stronger/faster players (several of my teammates are all-stars for my state) as an opportunity to level up. I am not yet at the level where I'd feel safe volunteering to skate against a team heavily stacked with guys but it happens every day. Sometimes when we're short at practice one of our refs plays the jams. He is a slightly built gent but fast af and powerful. One of the things about derby is that its inclusive to all kinds of different women. Some of us are shorter, thinner, taller, heavier. We play within a strict ruleset with refs and nobody plays until they pass minimum requirements. And nobody signs up for derby with the expectation that they're not going to get hit.

Not about equity, it's about fairness to women sports.

By not having doctors discussing this, Jubilee is only furthering the confusion of the topic. Finding a doctor who denies the advantage of trans competitive athletes could be impossible to find though.

@KalypsoVega

2 жыл бұрын

Precisely.

@Dannymuu

2 жыл бұрын

It would be the opposite tho

@Futurebound_jpg

2 жыл бұрын

True, that’s probably why they didn’t do it

@aleynademirkilic9038

2 жыл бұрын

I think the purpose of middle ground is to get real, authentic opinions derived from those with a certain experience/knowledge of the subject. However, bringing in professionals such as doctors, blurs the line between opinions and what they believe to be “factual information”.

@Sweet6T9

2 жыл бұрын

The issue is that not all trans athletes has an inherent physical advantage. Not all trans people are born male, and some trans people start transition BEFORE puberty (which is before the body develops any advantageous or disadvantageous physical traits). That's why you might have a hard time finding a doctor that tells you straight up "trans people, in general, have a physical advantage in competitive sports." Because the answer is more complicated than a simple "yes" or "no."

People need to stop using examples like "this girl in my high school beat all the guys in a sport" or "I'm trans and I didn't get a scholarship" as an argument for a huge debate like this

@vacantandstainedd

2 жыл бұрын

Literally not a debate. It's middle ground. The point is to hear the other side out.

@LoomiYT

2 жыл бұрын

can you provide the reason why?

@beckyp2944

2 жыл бұрын

@@LoomiYT because they are personal experiences that are not and can not be generalized to other. But facts, stats and studies can be.

@Shosty-ol6pc

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, of course there will be a girl that beats all the guys somewhere. But on average, that’s really rare and it’s not an argument

@Alex_Aramayo

2 жыл бұрын

Funny thing is that it was all anecdotal for the trans side, as well as non professional athletes in hs ms etc

As a woman we basically have our hormones all over the place due to periods and pregnancy the fact that this persons levels will stay the same show that it’s not natural at all

@frenchgirl5878

8 ай бұрын

Yeah, it’s not natural. That’s the whole point. They act like hormones are those magical pills that turn them into females, as if our hormones are the only thing that make us women.

@annaagapova3583

Ай бұрын

And it is an advantage as well. Being consistent with hormones is an advantage wether they like it or not

As someone that isnt from the united states this just baffles me. Why is there even an discussion about this? Transgender women have a huge advantage. They used to be males. Now they are a slightly weaker form of male. But they still have a stronger frame, residual muscle mass, thicker bones, stronger bones, a more efficient respretory system and many more advantages. Its not just about the hormones being gone.

Sports are not about feelings… Sports have rules… it’s about being fair and having everyone at the same level

@Noone-dk5ih

2 жыл бұрын

Sports have never been about fairness, have you as an example heard of basketball

@madeupname3008

2 жыл бұрын

And this isnt about feelings… its about science…. which concludes that trans athletes are not at an advantage. Don‘t act like transphobia is part of the game, it‘s not.

@sk0205xx

2 жыл бұрын

Preach it

@therealgemmacollins2158

2 жыл бұрын

@@madeupname3008 yes

@Intr0vertical

2 жыл бұрын

@@Noone-dk5ih how is basketball unfair

All the trans-athlete's arguments are disingenuous. They never addressed any of the Asian girl's initial arguments.

@pnut3844able

2 жыл бұрын

Bc they can't and they know it. Therefore they deflect and change the subject

@atropabelladonna3120

2 жыл бұрын

It's called deflection, its really not in their best interest to answer her questions because they will just lose.

@sandrinekows

2 жыл бұрын

Deflecccccccctionnnnn

@ninjamusic9554

2 жыл бұрын

Tbh, the Asian girls argument only applies on trans women. It's far fetched to say trans people have advantage in sport because trans men exist too and they have disadvantage competing against cis men. Also, just because trans women are usually slightly taller and more muscular than cis women, it doesn't mean they actually have advantage in sport. If we want to make sports really fair, we would have excluded 6ft height women from a woman team with average 5ft height. But we don't do that because we just accept that some women are taller than other women. So, why should there be an issue if there's a trans woman with 6ft height in sports, if the difference of height can be tolerated among women ?

@thelordoftime803

2 жыл бұрын

@@ninjamusic9554 Nobody is arguing over the advantage of trans men, only of trans women, OBVIOUSLY. Also, weight and height are probably the lowest impact factors that give trans women advantages. Muscle density is 100% an unfair advantage. Start using your decaying brain before it's too late.

Why do they put "female" for Afton and "male" for the two trans men? I thought sex and gender are different? This ideology is so inconsistent

I am an ally and I have always been for trans rights but we can’t ignore the fact that there is a huge advantage competing as a trans women. Not to say they don’t work hard or don’t deserve a spot, it’s just scientifically and biologically impossible to ignore the advantages. Cis women just don’t have those advantages and never will, so to make them compete against someone who does have those it’s unfair and unethical. We need to come up with a separate category and support everybody.

@feikedejong5247

11 ай бұрын

What are these advantages people keep talking about, cus I just haven't found any?

@birthemuller7310

9 ай бұрын

​@@feikedejong5247they've literally talked about them in the video. Longer limbs, higher bone density, bigger heart and lungs, more muscle mass

@feikedejong5247

9 ай бұрын

@@birthemuller7310 Shocker, tall people have bigger internal organs and longer limbs. These limbs and organs are the same size in proportion to their height. It'd be rediculous to say that's an unfair advantage. The points about bone density and muscle mass just aren't true for athletes on HRT.

@donnamarie33

8 ай бұрын

i am trans and i 100% agree. you’re sex isn’t gonna matter a ton in day to day social interactions but in some situations, like sports, it’s gotta be brought up.

@donnamarie33

8 ай бұрын

@@feikedejong5247strength, lung capacity, bone structure and density, height, and so on. obviously you know these sex differences exist, though, otherwise why would people transition at all?

They always seem to ignore the argument about transitioning after puberty. They completely disregarded the comments about a larger heart, greater lung capacity, greater bone density.

@noche5241

2 жыл бұрын

The woman did mention it at a time but later on did not use it again sadly.

@veRGe02

2 жыл бұрын

Because there is nothing for them to argue against lol, those are just (uncomfortable) facts. They're not medical researchers to know any counter argument papers/science, so they just ignore those points to escape the cognitive dissonance and go back to their favorite talking point.

@SeasonsOfBlue

Жыл бұрын

​@SomethingReallyStrange So what's the solution, removing the gender division in sports altogether due to statistical outliers?

@punjgurl

Жыл бұрын

@SomethingReallyStrange This is just not true for many trans women athletes. I wish it were true so there wouldn't be a problem!

@dejuanmoore2064

Жыл бұрын

@@punjgurl No one ever talks about when trans women athletes lose.

Felt like this conversation would've been a lot more productive if there were two athletes and two experts each to represent both sides. Experts would've been better able to address biological differences and the degree to which those differences are tolerable/intolerable for the fairness of sport. I was also surprised at how many agreed that hormone testing is fair given the cis women that were banned for high natural testosterone this past Olympics.

@MayMayboris

2 жыл бұрын

Yes to everything you said

@UrbanDecayLova247

2 жыл бұрын

Great point! I appreciated having athletes in this discussion rather than just random people with strong opinions, but there were limitations because of the lack of experts.

@eklectiktoni

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly, I feel like this conversation really is only meaningful when it's being argued by medical/scientific experts.

@sunnyboi2461

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah I think a lot of people kind of just look and say "oh trans people have an advantage for so and so reasons" but if your talking about hormones there's cis men that produce high levels of estrogen and cis women that produce high levels of testosterone so it isn't just a trans issue despite what some people believe

@noelstar1456

2 жыл бұрын

Experts would be afraid of getting cancelled. Every time a study went against the narrative that trans women vs cis women is an even playing field, the ‘scientist’ in question started making up excuses for the trans women... the backwards bending 🤦🏻‍♀️

Leah Thomas was ranked 523 as a male one year later he transitioned and was ranked #1 in women’s. That’s all you need to know. Please show me a weightlifting record for men and women that is really close to each other. I’ll wait.

I feel like I live in an alternative reality. A huge, great bloke with green hair saying that women are not at a disadvantage competing against someone like him. Its downright crazy. Absolute delusional insanity

@MiaSummer-cm6cy

8 ай бұрын

I mean he’s only about 6 inches taller than me .definitely heavier than me , 130% more power than me , stronger bigger bones . But no the jolly green giant don’t think he’s got an advantage. I might do a 100 metre race later . Race against under 7’s . Don’t think I’ll have an advantage do you ? 🤦‍♀️

On the one hand, we hear many complaints about Transwomen dominating women's sports, and on the other hand, we hear no complaints whatsoever about transmen dominating men's sports. What does that tell us? It is unfair to put Males and Females on the same playing field even after taking hormones of the opposite sex. The physical differences are still there, and males will always have the advantage.

@idrizzyt7524

Жыл бұрын

Isn't it funny how no one replied to the most sain comment on here? Biological men are dominating womens sports but biological women don't even make a dent in mens sports. Case closed your honor.

@mcdonaldsbrokenicecreammac8561

Жыл бұрын

True! The fact that those trans women weren't even a thing in men sports but got qualified and entered women sports with no struggle just tells a lot too. We have men and women sports separated for a reason. And these selfish people trying to deny that blindly just for their own feeling

@Toastroony

Жыл бұрын

In what world does a woman beat men show me the podium

@Toastroony

Жыл бұрын

Also depends some sports can be mixed

@topaz9655

Жыл бұрын

@Sharkie he's confused but gots the spirit

I support trans rights but the advantage is clear and it’s delusional to think otherwise.

@machinismus

2 жыл бұрын

Same. I feel like trans athletes are just fresh outta luck unless they're reflex and prescision-focused rather than a strength-focused athlete.

@skylarwright6019

2 жыл бұрын

I think there is a potential for advantage. Biology is inherently unfair. The complexity in categorizing the functionality of a person is drastically more important even if it’s not initially clear. If your deciding to limit the ambition of a vulnerable population.

@fwoop4848

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly. Sometimes facts need to come before feelings

@yonblek4542

2 жыл бұрын

Sports statistics prove it undeniably. How often does a new athlete enter a new sport division and immediately do incredibly well and dominate it ? Not very often. Unless you're the trans athlete in which case it is almost every time.

@nobodythatyouknow305

2 жыл бұрын

It’s not tho…

Biological males literally have SO many physical advantages compared to biological women, it can NOT be overstated. Hormones is literally just a small part of it.

All this showed me was that the non trans folks walk on eggshells to avoid being labeled a bigot.

No offense to anybody but I’m kinda tired of this topic lol it’s so glaringly obvious that men and women’s sports need to be separate, no matter which gender you transitioned into

@marytc2714

2 жыл бұрын

I’m gay and I agree as well

@LucaDolanRuiz

2 жыл бұрын

The "biology" of any two trans-men/women can be wildly different depending on a number of factors: their genetics, if and when they went on puberty blockers, if and how long they've been taking hormones, etc. A lot of people don't seem to understand this.

@STI.Ricardito

2 жыл бұрын

@@marytc2714 wtf lol that was hilarious 😂

@marytc2714

2 жыл бұрын

@@STI.Ricardito why 😂?

@nuufoualo5934

2 жыл бұрын

@Founding Fathers that makes sense but women has been very synonymous to female for a long time. It’s just looney weird activists trying to change that definition. I want Trans athletes to thrive and compete but not at the expense of women with not even half of their strength n speed

People are doing themselves a HUGE disadvantage by trying to rid of FACTS to make individuals feel better. We have to keep it real at some point.

@dominiquejacksonn

2 жыл бұрын

You couldn't say it any better. I hate sugarcoating

@MartaValentin3

2 жыл бұрын

What are the facts? That men are always stronger than women? Honestly this is just not true at all. I literally do better than the majority of the men in my climbing gym.

@dominiquejacksonn

2 жыл бұрын

@@MartaValentin3 then you're still asleep. It's literally common sense.🤦🏾‍♀️

@MsDudette21

2 жыл бұрын

@@MartaValentin3 on average men are stronger. regardless, men and women have strength differences because of biological makeup. that cant be ignored. jesus

@MartaValentin3

2 жыл бұрын

@a_fever_dream ♡ lmao but we aren’t talking about average people are we? We are talking about PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES. so your response means nothing.

Blaire brought me here. Came to read the comments and I was not disappointed.

It’s pretty simple Why don’t you see the same level of success with females that transition to male? Hats of to the level of respect each person showed one another

Seems like there should have been a distinction between "Sports" VS "competitive sports". Everyone should can enjoy sports regardless, but how we judge high-level athletes in a competitive and professional setting is very different. Only Howard seemed graze at that topic when he spoke about legislation and regulations.

@poocrayon4588

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe it’s not fair but so many female sports stars have been quitting lately, perhaps it’s time to flood women’s sports with XY women because XX women aren’t tough enough to hack the pressure.

@blappichulo9015

2 жыл бұрын

@@poocrayon4588 which female stars are you referring to? I'm not being antagonistic (I am very critical of trans athletes in sports) and I wouldn't be surprised, but this is news to me

@sahara.5208

2 жыл бұрын

@@poocrayon4588 what the hell is that argument? 🤨

@TTCanadaJapan

2 жыл бұрын

@@blappichulo9015 Well there was a 2 or 3x women champ in marathon or smth and she got aced by a trans who was just rank 300 before transitioning and never competed again. But yeah it's the only one i know, so it's not really a big thing where many women r leaving, but it does and did happen.

@athenskrg5451

2 жыл бұрын

Yes

As a medical student, I was taught that are differences between biological sex and gender. My school teaches us how to approach transgender health, but at the same time, if you are a trans woman, for example, you are still more likely to get lung cancer and colon cancer like a biological male. Changing your gender does not change your sex chromosomes. Hence, we are taught to approach treatment based on biological sex in certain cases and gender in other cases. The same thing definitely applies to sports as well. It's important to have equality and recognize someone by their gender. But regardless of gender, a person's biological sex will also play a huge role in their strength as well as the medical problems they are more likely to face.

@pnut3844able

2 жыл бұрын

Sorry but all that matters is the truth, what you're born as. If you want to pretend to be something else, go ahead. I'm not gonna lie to make you feel better though.

@fathergascoigne6104

2 жыл бұрын

Trans players perform the same as cisgender players

@pnut3844able

2 жыл бұрын

@@fathergascoigne6104 factually incorrect

@Ahjusshi_Brown

2 жыл бұрын

Well said. I come from the same place and was struggling how to put it into words.

@khaotic8

2 жыл бұрын

@@fathergascoigne6104 what sport are u watching? Bcuz in boxing, you're incorrect, in track, youre incorrect, in weight lifting, You're incorrect. What sport are u speaking on?

Sports are a measure of physical ability, not identity.

Green hair conivinced me to disagree with them even harder

My male partner and I, a female, started going to gym at the same time. We did the same workouts for the same amount of time and ate all the same things (we live together). Starting from both of us not going to the gym for over a year and both being naturally thin people with a three inch height difference and a weight difference of 10lbs, he quickly surpassed my lifting abilities. Males are just naturally stronger 9/10 times when put up against a female of the same/similar height and weight. It’s not transphobic, it’s just the way our bodies differ

@ElHal04

2 жыл бұрын

exactly, and taking hormones wont change trans people enough to make the gender differences negligible

@DjurslandsEfterskole

2 жыл бұрын

Males are naturally stronger because of testosterone. That is why athletes take testosterone as steroids to get an advantage. Trans women lose significant muscle mass and strength with testosterone blockers, and trans men gain. Same way cis women gain muscle mass and strength when they take steroids.

@ElHal04

2 жыл бұрын

@@DjurslandsEfterskoletestosterone isn’t just for muscle mass. Either way, hormone replacement isn’t enough because u cant change bone structure/ density

@DampLover

2 жыл бұрын

@@DjurslandsEfterskole You should take a day and read up on this whole subject since you´ve made it very clear that you lack alot of knowledge in this.

@rachelmazza4079

2 жыл бұрын

@@jessicadixon6815 No, indeed he is not. It would interesting to know how long it takes muscle mass to deteriorate due to estrogen after going through male puberty while continuing to train at the same level as you did pre HRT. I think thats a big part of things, we don't know the science for sure yet so naturally, people are extra skeptical.

It sucks no one mentioned how menstrual and ovulation cycles plays a major role on athletic performance. There’s nothing to talk about here lol

@GrzlyBore

2 жыл бұрын

Half of the arguments in the video ignores science all together, lol.

@sleeplesshead602

2 жыл бұрын

Makes you drained and tired all day easily 🥲

@serenas.3574

2 жыл бұрын

exactly what i was thinking

@caliginousmoira8565

2 жыл бұрын

what... you can't speak truth on the internet... write a book instead.... ;)

@yassin.o.a8907

2 жыл бұрын

Oh they don’t care about that it’s all about feelings over here no logic at all menstrual cycle doesn’t exist

I'm so tired of ppl thinking since the hormones are lower then it's ok to compete against females. The human body is not just hormones.

There are athletes that are mediocre before they transition and champions after they transition. That says it all.

This really sucks because the women who actually tried to stand her ground had to tiptoe around in effort to not hurt the feelings of the other speakers.

@vinessawess4401

2 жыл бұрын

She wasn't tip toeing around the Trans to avoid hurting their feelings she was walking on eggshells to protect herself from getting cancelled, harassed, bullied online and called a Bigot..or Transphobe!!!!!!

@vinessawess4401

2 жыл бұрын

But ...youre absolutely right though when you said this sucks!!!!!😩 it really does

@npcimknot958

2 жыл бұрын

Notice that this is always the women that will be the loser in this. This only helps men - bio or trans.

@dilanrae5417

2 жыл бұрын

How do you know she wasn't just trying to be respectful towards trans people? And why does basic respect and empathy "suck" in your eyes?

@dorinayelha9270

2 жыл бұрын

@@npcimknot958 yeah i think the same and that’s really sad

"If you truly believe that transwomen have an advantage even with hormones, means that you believe that transmen have a disadvantage, even with hormones." Yes. Afton, that's exactly it.

@Andres64B

2 жыл бұрын

No, that's not what it means. Biology is baked in, especially after puberty. So a male who decides that he wants to transition to female doesn't completely undo everything that has happened prior in his life simply by taking hormones. In the same regards, a female doesn't gain all of the advantages that a male had when he went through puberty. Biology is baked in regardless of whether you take hormones or not.

@lanced1265

2 жыл бұрын

Well, yes, top trans men athletes have a disadvantage against top cis male athletes. But that has more to do with the athletic gap between males and females than anything else.

@JustSomeLint

2 жыл бұрын

@@Andres64B That's what Afton said, which is what I agree with. I don't see your point.

@Andres64B

2 жыл бұрын

@@JustSomeLint If that's what Afton is actually saying, then it's an argument against letting Afton play against or with women. Why would that argument be made? It's counterproductive. It's essentially admitting "I have an advantage". Anyone born a male, like Afton, has an advantage despite taking hormones. And, anyone born a female has a disadvantage, despite taking hormones. That's an absolutely clueless argument to make.

@JustSomeLint

2 жыл бұрын

@@Andres64B Afton was saying that sardonically because that wasn't an argument she believed. I don't disagree with your point about biology setting puberty in at a certain point in *an* individuals life. The statement that Afton made, that she didn't mean, is saying "if you think transwomen have an advantage *then that* means that you think transmen have a disadvantage" doesn't counter anything that you've said. Or anything that you, or I believe. But it does counter Afton's belief. Which is why she said it not only in the manner she did, but with the larger context she had said it with. edits in **

We need doctors vs trans athletes

They got some raging narcissists on that trans side. That green haired one just wants to hit women.

The cis athletes were trying to be as reasonable as possible by giving arguments that generally applies to all athletes while the transgender athletes were just being anecdotal most of the time.

@evelynbustos7313

2 жыл бұрын

Because it's important to communicate and understand

@SydneyScream

2 жыл бұрын

Not true. The cis athletes coudln't even come up with a reason as to why trans men shouldn't compete with cis men

@DrReddit

2 жыл бұрын

@@SydneyScream that's because they'd be labeled as transphobic if they said what was actually on their mind

@lmaohahaha8539

2 жыл бұрын

@@SydneyScream Maybe they weren’t trying to get canceled

@joeyluckey4900

2 жыл бұрын

@@SydneyScream because they used to be females and they have female bonestell for anything goes wrong that's going to be a lawsuit for no reason just like when it comes to the trans females playing for the female teams it's not going to be fair

I really wish there was better casting on this episode considering how important this conversation is. The trans athletes didn’t respond to any of the valid points the other side made and it made the whole conversation really one sided. It amazes me that the trans athletes in this video completely denied any advantages/disadvantages that they might have because they are trans. Sports are not about gender, they are about sex (has nothing to do with what you identify as but has everything to do which your biology). It would be like going to a doctor as a trans person and them treating you as your gender without taking into consideration how your biology might affect the treatment plan. People nowadays are so concerned with feelings they forget to consider the facts and science.

@joeldonadio1732

2 жыл бұрын

This^

@sadudas11

2 жыл бұрын

Fuck I want to like that a hundred times. What’s at the end of this road?

@l.ishfaq5194

2 жыл бұрын

We're evolving... . . Just backwards

@MishyKitty

2 жыл бұрын

​@Pink Velvet It's an important conversation because it's a current issue and most people don't know if the facts outweigh the moral dilemma of the situation. It might be common sense for you, but clearly not for everyone if people are still debating the issue. You are not the only one who would be involved in the conversation and it seems very self centered to say that the whole conversation is unimportant because "it's common sense" in your mind.

@JadaKingdom971

2 жыл бұрын

Everything is true is this. There was literally no other side in this debate LOL

How is this even up for debate? It’s like asking if an able bodied person has advantage in a race against someone in a wheelchair.

Afton just casually saying there are co-ed roller derby leagues and that Afton joined roller derby after 4 months of transitioning is crazy. Afton just out here in female leagues loving beating women up, so ladylike.

@donnamarie33

8 ай бұрын

fr like just join the co-ed if you’re so worried about outing or whatever

I have a Trans friend... she brought this topic up and asked my opinion (without telling me her opinion first)... I didn’t want to possibly offend her, so I said, “I don’t know?” She then proceeded to say, of course it’s an advantage and isn’t fair for the other cis women that play. This really isn’t a case of being transphobia - it’s common sense.

@iristhesc9792

2 жыл бұрын

It’s not really the arguments that people have a problem with, it’s the way you say it. The people in the video were rly respectful, but there are people who straight up say “men that want to be women” when talking about trans women in womens sports.

@iristhesc9792

2 жыл бұрын

@Vou h amab (assigned male at birth) people who want to play women’s sports. Trans women are women, cause gender is in the brain and not the body.

@ezpeasy3967

2 жыл бұрын

@@iristhesc9792 snowflake

@ezpeasy3967

2 жыл бұрын

@@iristhesc9792 snowflake

@geemo4284

2 жыл бұрын

@@iristhesc9792, I agree, there needs to be a respectful discourse when discussing something that is such a sensitive subject.

By the logic of the trans group, there shouldn’t be a special Olympics

@beansontoast8819

2 жыл бұрын

Special Olympics?

@deadguy718

2 жыл бұрын

Most of them belong in the special Olympics tbh.

@brandihansen6474

2 жыл бұрын

The special Olympics allows many people with different abilities and disabilities compete one another. It aligns with the transgender group???

a study amongst 312 kids age (10.8 +- 0years) found a greater strength, aerobic fitness, speed and agilty in boys against girls. Girls won in balance and flexibility. the first testosteron rush in a boy is inside the womb, the advantage is there since day 1.

Of all the sports out there... ROLLER DERBY?! Just say you want to hit women and go on.

@eeeaten

8 ай бұрын

probably gets smashed at roller derby

Sports are not segregated by gender identity, they're segregated by biological sex. This debate's completely flawed until people find a way to change their sex

@VictorMatthieu

2 жыл бұрын

Transitioning changes 4/5 of a person's biological sex, if they end up doing what cis people think of as a "full" transition. The only thing that currently can't be changed is chromosomes and those aren't particularly important in your overall physical makeup

@alizap_9105

2 жыл бұрын

@@VictorMatthieu and their bone density, lung capacity, heart size, wingspan, etc. :)

@dontbother9473

2 жыл бұрын

@@VictorMatthieu If you can’t change your chromosomes you can’t change a single step LOL. You’re lucky if you can transition 1/1 billion

@scottbecker4367

2 жыл бұрын

@@VictorMatthieu chromosomes are literally the only things that are important to your make up. You have to stop their gene products to fully transition.

@1000OtherFoxes

2 жыл бұрын

@@VictorMatthieu Chromosome are super important, every new cell your body produce is either male or female, people transitionning will have to take hormones for the rest of their lives because without them they will come back to what they were biologically, you just can't change your biological sex once and for all. I think that's also why you have so many trans detransitionning they just realize they'll never become a fully functional being of the opposite sex.

Slightly infuriated me when people kept looking at this based on their feelings/emotions instead of facts.

@209jayy3

2 жыл бұрын

Yup

@pnut3844able

2 жыл бұрын

Unfortunately that's the world we live in today. Intelligence is becoming less and less common.

@lona9461

2 жыл бұрын

Facts are important but feelings are valid in getting that message across cause you need to be aware of who you are dealing.

@middlek4093

2 жыл бұрын

@@lona9461 when they were talking about the endangerment of scholarship, the person didn't even discuss about that issue he just said "I didn't get scholarship" and was all about his feeling, but in the outside perspective he is deem as selfish and lack of empathy. To be honest this jubilee video is pretty bad representing the trans community since they keep avoiding the question or argument that is presented

@paigemiller7478

2 жыл бұрын

tututuuttuutututt

why are biological facts up to debate?

As someone who frequently watches combat sports such as ufc and boxing that MMA line was absolutely crazy 😂. Bro must not watch ufc for real.

Watching with a open mind, but the protein shake comparison doesn’t click to me. Like you drink it and it goes away. Doesn’t bone density and structure you gained before transition never lost?

@Firdoshh

2 жыл бұрын

Yup i think cis athletes were hesitating or someone should've pointed out how illogical that sounds

@temitrite

2 жыл бұрын

It's like drinking protein shakes every day and your body takes in the protein effects but then you stop and it slowly goes away (hormonal changes only)

@Jovviial

2 жыл бұрын

In terms of density, I know for trans women that doesn't change, but I'm honestly not 100% sure about the structure, I think if you take hrt early enough that could still change

@JordannGeorge

2 жыл бұрын

i think some of it is lost but definitely not all. even if it all was, transwomen still have larger organs, contributing to their advantage.

@cloutier170

2 жыл бұрын

they were talking about hormone levels not bone density

Having a trans league isn’t wrong. There are Paralympic leagues for paraplegic. Why? Because it’s an even playing field

@fathergascoigne6104

2 жыл бұрын

Trans players are at the same level as cisgender players

@Chrisaveri

2 жыл бұрын

@@fathergascoigne6104 not all of them comparing them to gender

@chihiroogino7464

2 жыл бұрын

@Lincoln D lollll well I learned something new today. This whole time I thought what OP said xD

@theBabyDead

2 жыл бұрын

actually paralympics aren't very even because of the varying degrees and such. There's also quite some cheating. But we know it's the paralympics so we don't take it as harshly. We also wouldn't with trans-lympics.

@masichasi

2 жыл бұрын

but it's not always an even playing field. People can be in different stages of their transition.

Everyone is so scared to offend the trans heroes.

If there is no difference between men and women, then why is there even separate categories?

"sports should be gender neutral" No, just no. At elite levels, women would rarely win. In some sports, never, in others, little and in very very few sports, yes. Agreeing with this is just naïve and woke for the sake of being woke. If you want to do mixed, fine, like team racing (equal men, equal women), archery, fine. But, for example, contact sports where size is important, no, it just wont work.

@maryeagle1324

2 жыл бұрын

I agree!

@lockandloadlikehell

2 жыл бұрын

*never win Let them do it; not a trans ♀️ in the world will be able to compete with actual elite level ♂️s- which is the whole point

@mioszwojtyga5100

2 жыл бұрын

they wanna be so woke and help the woman compete at higher levels or with an but they don't see that its damaging to them as well, less woman would overall win meaning they would get less recognition and earn less etc

@MartaValentin3

2 жыл бұрын

Why not do it based on weight and height?

@bakedbean1232

2 жыл бұрын

At elite levels women would not even be in the equation anymore. Making sports gender neutral immediately destroys the chance for a woman to become an elite athlete for 90% of sports

When Afton compared drinking a protein shake to hormone treatment I had to laugh, that is such a ridiculous comparison! Also, recognising that trans women have advantage does NOT mean I am okay trans men having a disadvantage. I don't know what the solution is here but to deny the facts is not it.

@Random-sk6hm

2 жыл бұрын

I feel like whichever side you're on, everyone knew that his analogysecond

@miguelgutierrez3720

2 жыл бұрын

The solution is to have Trans individuals in specific sports such as boxing mma or sports where physical attributes play a major role in the sport they play now sports where it is more like Nascar or other sports the like then you can have those sports being gender neutral

@B_27

2 жыл бұрын

@@miguelgutierrez3720 So Trans people should only be allowed to play certain "gender neutral" sports but should be denied others? I don't think so.

@B_27

2 жыл бұрын

@@MistaTamilan How am I being transphobic? I am clearly advocating for equity as much as possible but I acknowledge it is a complicated issue that I don't have a perfect solution for. You need to learn the meaning of transphobic before you start throwing it around. It's kinda toxic _and_ embarrassing.

@clemenciaharmon1753

2 жыл бұрын

@@MistaTamilan B isnt being transphobic this is a tough situation as a female that lifts and studies biology there is physical differences between male bodies amd female bodies that hormones and surgery cant change that and makes playing certain sports just unfair

Summary of video: lots of people talking Summary of facts: Yes, transwoman have an advantage

The guy with the green hair is super buff

The (cis) guy is thinking in long-term and not just "here and now"...or "feelings". He has presented quite solid arguments very calmly

@bigmarv5656

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed. Very pleasant to watch

@maheshwariswarnima7644

2 жыл бұрын

+1

@cheezers1385

2 жыл бұрын

agreed.

@Jobe-13

2 жыл бұрын

I agree

@FooeyMcgooey

2 жыл бұрын

Because that's how this conversation should be viewed. The two actual tran athletes are going what they feel rather than seeing the reality of who really has the disadvantage.

Having an advantage doesn’t mean you will always win, but it means that your opponent’s chances of winning are diminished. So yes, physical ability in most sports can or not be an advantage to you. My problem with how they are arguing their points is that they are basing them on feelings and not facts. I get that trans women feel attacked when involving sports, but unfortunately, it is an unfair playing field.

@huu5807

2 жыл бұрын

Love this comment. It is straight to the point and still respectful

@FreakigesSternchen

2 жыл бұрын

i mean… a cis woman who’s taller and has naturally more muscle mass or testosterone will have an advantage over most cis women but that’s not a reason to ban her from the sport

@jessicativane6813

2 жыл бұрын

@@FreakigesSternchen cis women who have higher testosterone levels than the normal, are also banned from certain categories

@FreakigesSternchen

2 жыл бұрын

@@jessicativane6813 And do you support that?

@jessicativane6813

2 жыл бұрын

@@FreakigesSternchen it doesn’t matter whether I do or not, my comment wasn’t on that 😅

I’m so surprised as a wrestler that’s crazy, a 160lbs male is so different 160 female

it's not just about hormones when it comes to competitive sports. Men and women are just biologically hardwired differently in their heads.

"We do have weight categories." "... well for certain sports." Yes, exactly.

@fanatanutuivaiti8337

2 жыл бұрын

ok make height categories for basketball then

@bigbird7927

2 жыл бұрын

@@fanatanutuivaiti8337 I agree with you😊

@disappointment3090

2 жыл бұрын

@@fanatanutuivaiti8337 they kind of do hight discriminate though. Short basketball players aren’t the majority.

@aspergerart4635

2 жыл бұрын

@@disappointment3090 is it discrimination tho?

@paulb3966

2 жыл бұрын

@@fanatanutuivaiti8337 there are it’s called positions. Generally shorter players will be guards while taller players will be forwards and centers

1. Testosterone and a protein shake are definitely different. 2. A lot of these trans athletes ideals are very emotion based not scientific.

@webbyxddd9871

2 жыл бұрын

Facts. Facts>feelings

@gametime2473

2 жыл бұрын

A lot of EVERYONE'S ideals are emotion based so what point are you making?

@kylesnyder799

2 жыл бұрын

@@gametime2473 I don't believe you don't understand what point he's trying to make. I don't believe that's an intellectually honest question. Unless you're going to say you don't believe that the vaccine mandates are alright? That we shouldn't listen to the science and encourage the vaccine and that companies can't mandate the vaccine because it goes against their ideals. Just seems strange to me the ven diagram of people who believe that trans women should be able to compete in women sports and those telling people to listen to the science, trans women are inherently given an advantage in sports are two totally separate circles...which kinda highlights the absurdity of this discussion.

@t_chico929

2 жыл бұрын

exactly

@bobdylan5127

2 жыл бұрын

Their entire decision making is dominated by their emotions, hence the transition.

The person with the green hair going on about not having an advantage over cis women is hysterical lol and the point about fearing for safety playing on a trans league, while not caring about the safety of cis women who have to play against them is wild.

This was the worst debate. Maybe they should've used athletes from schools where people are actually allowed to have different opinions because it's painful to watch non trans athletes navigate their words in a debate to not be called phobic

@imbatakum

Жыл бұрын

exactly

15:44 A little girl winning against little boys isn’t a valid reason to make sports gender neutral. A little kid hasn’t gone through puberty yet, that’s why there’s NO advantage. The boys after puberty would have won against her

@Andesu

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed. I think the issue is that, ironically, this individual has conflated gender and biological sex.

@CB-vq1cv

2 жыл бұрын

Not even true! Even in elementary school their are still some noticeable differences in athletic ability between the boys and girls. Not as much as say between two high schoolers who have gone through puberty, but definitely still a difference.

@milliontimes1674

2 жыл бұрын

@@CB-vq1cv A MASSIVE difference after puberty.

@destineewilson1983

2 жыл бұрын

Depends on the level of training.

@charlibravo371

2 жыл бұрын

Spot on, also a girl will reach puberty before a boy, so you can't compare kids.

"There's no proof of any trans athlete that is number one in any category right now"... That did not age well..

@terrificpage347

2 жыл бұрын

Do you know what right now means

@Meshatiny

2 жыл бұрын

@@terrificpage347 You're clearly not smart

@mads8875

2 жыл бұрын

One trans person wins something and y’all lose your mind lmao

@DeyBeuller

2 жыл бұрын

@@mads8875 Bruh? What are you on about?

@mads8875

2 жыл бұрын

@@DeyBeuller wym? everyone freaked out when lia won. they acted like that’s the case for every trans athlete. which it isn’t. because trans ppl have been participating in sports for years and many of them are not top athletes. suddenly the spotlight is on trans ppl and everyone acts like they’re the expert. things change all the time and this video pissed me off more than just comments like this. why are trans ppl facing violence and persecution at such a high rates and media is obsessed with bathrooms and sports? did this answer your question?

Such an informed debate between these esteemed biological scientists. "Like you know, like, whateverrrr."

@donnamarie33

8 ай бұрын

“but like what if you had a protein shake”

@noteworthyreactions7442

2 ай бұрын

​@donnamarie33 it's all hypothetically tho

I would consider myself a biological female who happens to have more muscle mass naturally and broader shoulders. My husband has a smaller stature and is about 40 lbs lighter than me. He could still take me down easy in a wrestling match, running, lifting, or any other competition. I was very athletic and could come close to males, but they still beat me even if they aren’t top of their class or even middle.

Trying to cater to everyone's feelings isn't the magical utopia people think it is.

@ryanrios7155

2 жыл бұрын

Facts!!

@saturatedcranium

2 жыл бұрын

The reality is that not everyone can be included.

@bafoonerysamurai6911

2 жыл бұрын

It’s not even physically possible

@omarfarique6304

2 жыл бұрын

I think it was Trevor Noah or someone who said imagine if Michael Jordan identifies himself as a female and joins the female NBA. Although this is not Michael Jordan but we are getting to see the effects of men joining female side of the sports.

@adio8824

2 жыл бұрын

@@omarfarique6304 noo. Wasn’t Trevor Noah. It’s was Dave chapel

This is probably one of the most worst episodes jubilee has done, the trans speakers literally didn't have any scientific info and spoke off point every question, you cannot argue from a place of feelings and your opinion in a scientific and factual argument.

@snakemongoosepanther

2 жыл бұрын

It's not like the cis folks here were extraordinary geniuses who showed up armed with scientific research, right? They were just laying out what seem to be pretty reasonable common sense arguments and the trans athletes couldn't address the points that were made. What might that tell us.

@demarnelson1463

2 жыл бұрын

@@snakemongoosepanther that the debate is no longer about biological differences and factual evidence where sports, work or science is involved. The whole thing for trans athletes is based on feelings, if it continues like this ,years to come the sporting world will be meaningless the level of unfairness will be astonishing and for men who fail to be the number one athlete in their sport will start to look to becoming a transgender woman as the new steroid enhancement.

@technoloverish

2 жыл бұрын

@@demarnelson1463 But as a conservative person, do you honestly give a crap about women's sports, or do you just care about them in the context of transgender women in women's sports as you see it as an opportunity to try to dehumanize transgender people? In my experience, most conservative people don't care about women's sports at all and some of them even think women shouldn't be in sports to begin with. I kinda get the feeling that you probably wouldn't shed a tear of women's sports was just disbanded altogether. Also, you seem to be under the false impression that there's an epidemic of transgender people who are just faking it in order to win in sports, which couldn't be further from the truth. Almost every transgender person knew they were transgender at an early age, and transgender people are greatly disadvantaged in many ways, so much so that they even often end up having to quit school due to bullying and stuff.

@demarnelson1463

2 жыл бұрын

@@technoloverish I am a jamaican, I don't live in the USA I live in Jamaica, where the fastest women are from and we are very proud and concerned of women's sports and women in sports, there is not a influx of transgender women taking over sports currently but given time and unregulated laws and practices, that will happen. I don't wish to dehumanize transgender women or men as I still support the idea and reality that people should feel free to be who they really want to be but what is the message we are sending to the world and young women ,that in time no matter how hard you train you will never be in the top of your sport because you were not biologically born a male first then became a woman? Transgender women and men should have a fair shot in sports but we cannot continue to act as though there are not permanent benefits to being born biologically male first, testosterone is only one factor. There needs to be a conversation with honest scientific facts and no transphobic opinions and no feelings,just a conversation on how best to go forward with transgender people in sports .

@technoloverish

2 жыл бұрын

@@demarnelson1463 Okay, fair enough. I guess the bottom line is that this is an issue where there is no easy solution that will satisfy everyone.

Every argument I hear from trans athletes about variations in athleticism in both genders respectively and how some people’s physicality defies there biology would be squashed by one question: “why not just combine all men’s and women’s sports?” Everyone knows that’s ludicrous because of obvious reasons but very few people mention it.

Why is Jubilee calling trans identified females(TIFs) "males" and trans identified males(TIMs) "females?" I thought even the most radical TRAs(trans rights activists) believe sex and gender are different!? These trans identified people keep saying that it is only about body type and hormone level. Why don't women's records compete with men's with any rate of regularity? The top women athletes are the best women have to offer. As mentioned, how many different leagues, weight classes, body categories, etc. do we need to attempt to match body type to body type all so men can compete against women? We're going to need to have leagues for the 6 ft tall females to compete against the 6 ft tall males, BUT not the big muscular males versus the 6 ft tall model frames. And for those 5 foot tall females with bodybuilding bodies, we are going to need their own category that do not compete against the 5 ft tall feminine males. And dont forget to address their hormone levels! But the TRAs are saying they DON'T want to take this route, so just let all TIMs in women's sports. At the end of the day, let's be honest, this is all because TIMs want to be "affirmed" as women, not because they "just want to play sports." It would be 100 times easier to have trans leagues than all this other nonsense. We also don't see TIFs fighting for inclusion in men's sports because they simply do not qualify. The only times we hear about them actually competing are as children. However, who thinks child sports are comparable to adults' professional sports? If they were, as I said earlier, the female's records would be competing with males with regularity. How many of the TIMs that aren't winning against women would even qualify against men? Most of the best women don't even qualify to compete against men, let alone beating them. How many times do we hear the TRAs say we can't do this or that, because of THEIR SAFETY! But say one time it is about women's or girl's safety, and they immediately say TIMs aren't a threat or that we're being "transphobic." Are we supposed to do the same with prisons? Because I don't see trans identified females fight as hard to get housed in men's prisons as trans identified males do. I wonder if the TIF who says women MMA fighters are kicking their male sparing partner's butts, would agree with putting TIFs in general population of men's prisons? Or, suddenly will biology play a role in their safety? Small framed, skinny, feminine men aren't given special privileges just because of their bodies. At the end of the day, I think we women will have to bite the bullet and play the TRA game. You say we're "cis?" OK. Then we want "cis" women sports categories, bathrooms, changing rooms, locker rooms, prisons and shelters. If the stunning and brave "allies" want to affirm these TIMs by competing against them, changing in front of them, or being housed with them, then by all means, do it. But give those women the opportunity to put being an adult human who is born female the chance to compete against other females. I suspect some TIF would be claiming to be "cis" when biology gets too real.

@L_Martin

7 ай бұрын

Yeah I noticed that, and it's really a butchering of language that we require to understand reality. Calling a TIM a "female" is just throwing all sense of reality out of the window. I have to assume Jubilee just really do not understand basic biological terminology.

How is a show called Middle Ground have no middle ground. one side came with rational arguments and the other came with feelings and anecdotes.

@jupiterisaak1004

2 жыл бұрын

That’s the whole trans debate summed up

@sorryforprojectingmyparent6402

2 жыл бұрын

Stop having hero syndrome, pls, and get smart.

@OHCAM5

2 жыл бұрын

@@sorryforprojectingmyparent6402 You didn't watch the video did you?

@sorryforprojectingmyparent6402

2 жыл бұрын

@@OHCAM5 This is the survival. Not a game.

@OHCAM5

2 жыл бұрын

@@sorryforprojectingmyparent6402 Again what does it have to do with what I said.

I can't believe this is even a debate still. Most of the arguments for having Trans people in sports made no sense or were completely off topic 🤦🏾‍♂️. If there's no difference why aren't there popular unisex sports?

@gp5390

2 жыл бұрын

You can't? I certainly can. Our societal understanding of sex and gender is changing at lightning speed, so we need to figure this stuff out in a way that is fair for EVERYONE. And, newsflash, excluding trans people and putting them at disadvantages is not fair, just like making cis women compete with trans women.

@WolfHaley666

2 жыл бұрын

@@gp5390 there's the olympics and there's the paralympics.. there could easily be a translympics or some other name

@khalidscott1410

2 жыл бұрын

@@gp5390 people just neglect natural science and feel the need to be entitled to change because their “different”. Sheesh 🙄

@syahidsalleh3209

2 жыл бұрын

@@gp5390 some says that the understanding is a delusion.

@gp5390

2 жыл бұрын

@@khalidscott1410 I just think people aren’t making an attempt to make a viable solution. And that people are oversimplifying this criminally. And that saying “this conversation shouldn’t be happening” is intellectual censorship.

The Afton dude and Mack pissed me off they were literally the definition of “feelings over facts”

I liked this discussion a lot more than others I've seen while I do side more with the girl in the pink Mac and the roller derby girl brought up some really interesting points that I had not thought about.

I am 100% sure that a Top 50 Male MMA Fighter would rip apart the female MMA Top 10 in the same weight class without shedding a tear. I feel like people are valueing some peoples Emotions over reality nowadays...

@richieferrelli6318

2 жыл бұрын

try top 250

@soilent9618

2 жыл бұрын

I could also guarantee that those top 50 male fighters could transition to female (with hormones) and still beat them as well.

@huntershaffer8771

2 жыл бұрын

@@richieferrelli6318 Try top 15 of anyone in any UFC division. Go put Nunes or Shevchenko against Petr Yan LOL

@pixelblaze8284

2 жыл бұрын

Have you not seen female MMA fighters? I'm a martial artist and I've gotten my ass handed to me by many women in my weight and skill level. Martial arts, especially at that level, is primarily a mental game unless you're literally just taking turns bashing each other over the head.

@remotivaction

2 жыл бұрын

Lucia Rijker vs Somchai Jaidee, the most accomplished female fighter in history, an undefeated female fighter in boxing and kickboxing Lucia Rijker, she got knocked out and beaten easily by unknown average muay-thai fighter somchai.

I'm part of the LGBTQ+ but they obviously do have an advantage. Higher muscle density and larger heart and lungs, that doesn't go away with transitioning. I feel like a category should be put in for all genders to compete that way trans athletes can fairly compete without an advantage. It would also allow non-binary people and other genders to compete too

@leohaddad6106

2 жыл бұрын

Some LGBT want straight people acceptance so badly

@advendale9119

2 жыл бұрын

@@leohaddad6106 another gay guy calling other gay guys “pick me gays” when they have an acknowledgment and respect of a scientific reality. Imagine calling gay guys who so tactfully and respectfully propose trans leagues (a medium ground where no one is disadvantaged) as “desperate for straight acceptance”. Don’t you ever get tired? Also, a lot of LGB never agreed to being lumped in with the T but no one wants to have that conversation...

@monkeyjosh

2 жыл бұрын

@@leohaddad6106 I don't care about "straight acceptance", I'm just able to acknowledge the scientific facts

@leohaddad6106

2 жыл бұрын

@@monkeyjosh just STFU Dave Rubin

@calebilhan3669

2 жыл бұрын

You are not LGBT stop lying !

I got the sense the Cis Athletes held back a lot out of a fear of disagreement being perceived (or edited) to be transphobic. Even the fact that the end of the "debate" was edited to be a discussion over prejudice as trans athletes shows an editing bias in my opinion. A more balanced debate would've been more interesting and valuable.

@donnamarie33

8 ай бұрын

a balanced debate would also have an expert in the field

Something humorous about calling someone who does roller derby an athlete.