So glad that you are talking about this! Way to high (and not angled to compensate for the high) side surround speakers in high-end home theaters is probably my most hated thing to see. The worst part is that i feel like I see it so often! I just can't understand why the people designing and building this theaters can't do basic home theater design. It just looks like they don't know the basics of how sound and speakers work.

As consumers, how do we tell good integrators from bad beforehand? What questions should we ask to determine if they are likely to do a good job?

@sammy10001

Жыл бұрын

you have to be good yourself to see through their snake oil

DAMN! Poes is laying the SMACKDOWN on crap installers! SAVAGE BEATING! So brutal I have to turn my eyes! Have some mercy Poes! But he can't control himself when he tastes BLOOD IN THE WATER!

It would help if possible if we could see the client room while you talk about it

Hi, Matt Poes I'm from Trinidad and Tobago, and I know you are the only person that can advise me on this, I'm using the Denon AVR X-4700H in my home theater, I do not have a back wall it is an open space but I have placement for one back speaker, could I use a 6.2.4 setup? will I be missing anything in the surround channel ?.

@PoesAcoustics

Жыл бұрын

That actually likely wouldn’t be that bad of a setup. You may want to place the pair of back channels right next to each other. When THX researched this they found that closet placement provided much better envelopment. The other option is to place the rear surrounds on stands or even to use ceiling mounted aimed speakers. Not ideal but not terrible either.

Just subscribed to follow your room build maybe not the correct place to ask this question but Audiohholics always suggests a 80Hz XO even if you have capable tower speakers so what crossover setting are you going to use with the Perlisten S7i in-wall speakers? and would that also apply to S7t towers?

@PoesAcoustics

Жыл бұрын

This is really too complicated of a question to fully respond to here. THX specs an 80hz crossover. That is how their speaker and design spec works. So while the S7T is also a full range speaker, it would be intended to be used with an 80hz high pass. The S7i is not a full range speaker. The enclosure is far smaller than the towers. So it must be either crossed over or if used full range, no boosting of bass. 80hz is a sensible point to cross. It’s very possible this speaker couldn’t handle being run full range anyway. Many full range speakers are not full range high output. If you look at compression test data on a lot of speakers you will find that the bass and tweeter range are the biggest factors where compression sets in. A lot of speakers couldn’t do 105dB down to 20hz at the listening position. In a medium sized room that would actually take a pretty beefy 12” subwoofer driver with a lot of power behind it. Most mains don’t have that. Even at higher frequencies, let’s say 50hz, a lot of otherwise capable speakers may struggle. So the crossover point of 80hz is really a good compromise number for a lot of systems. The idea that this is wrong or bass remains directional at frequencies below that is not supported but the extensive literature into this topic. Mains are also rarely at the right location for optimal bass. Subs against a wall on the floor is a far better location. It’s generally best to be against a barrier as it avoids SBIR problems from those two or three surfaces. So summing the bass to mono and distributing it amongst optimally places subwoofers usually leads to a far better bass response. In other words, many capable towers aren’t that capable. But even if they are, it’s still likely better to cross them over. However there are what I call advanced bass management techniques that wouldn’t do this. Let’s say that you know your speakers have the ability to be run full range and that they won’t ever hit their limits, you won’t exceed xmax, and the amp won’t clip, then running them that way could be advantageous. That is because it’s always better to have more LF sources than not. If you can get everything well aligned and integrated (which is trickier) then it can be good to have the mains and subs operate together and fully overlapping. The problem is that many receivers and processors either have limited means for doing this or no means at all. Extra bass or double bass was a common name used for it. It’s worth nothing the mains don’t actually need to be full range. My old speakers placed a pro 12” driver in a small sealed box. They handle 1000 watts and have about 10mm of xmax. In a tiny sealed box they can take the full 1000 watts and still not exceed xmax. However the speaker starts rolling off at 100hz with a 2nd order natural high pass. If run with subwoofers, there becomes a lot of overlap between the subs and mains in that critical range between 40hz and 100hz. Geddes taught me this and even suggested using a shallow 2nd order low pass on the subs potentially. If you set the corner lower (maybe 60hz) there is just as much attenuation up at 100h as there would have been with a 4th order low pass, but better integration. I would like to play with this approach on the S7I. I need to do some testing and likely need a good 500 watts per channel to get away with it. Thankfully my Trinnov has all the flexibility needed to do this.

@andrewmorrison8033

Жыл бұрын

@@PoesAcoustics Wow thanks for such a comprehensive reply it was more than I expected and is really appreciated I am using a 9.3.6 layout in a 20' x 17'6" x 8' dedicated room Trinnov AL16 with JBL SCL-6 in-wall centre behind my PJ screen along with JBL HDI 3800 as L/R, JBL HDI 3800 as side surrounds, Arendal 1723 Monitors as wides and Arendal 1723 surrounds at the back I have seriously been considering changing to Perlisten that said, using the Trinnov I have been playing around redirecting my Arendal 1723 wides and back surrounds along with my height speakers from I use a 50 Hz Low pass on the JBL HDI 3800s to 3x Arendal 1723 2S subwoofers all this to say after reading your reply I will go back to a 80Hz XO all round so thanks again loving the channel Regards Andy

Thoughts on 1" dome tweeters (not on a waveguide) for theater LCR speakers behind a screen reaching reference level 18ft away? Me thinks not, but other "designers" think so with brands like triad

@PoesAcoustics

Жыл бұрын

Triad claims it but I don’t know where that number comes from. I don’t happen to think it’s likely. I wont go so far as to say impossible. I’ve tested a lot of speakers to max SPL and raw drivers. We have never seen a 1” standard dome tweeter do 120dB at 1 meter, for example. Or even close. I think a good reference for how unlikely this is would be that the Perlisten speakers use three domes to give sufficient output. They are maxed out at 117dB at 1 meter. One big part of the issue is that it takes a lot of power to get there so most dome tweeter voice coils lack the thermal power handling for that to happen. I would like to maybe get the Gold LCR’s in for review. We could then do some testing to see what the max SPL is. Nobody else has been successful at achieving 119dB from such a design so it will surprise me if it holds up. Maybe if their test is more of an M noise type test it’s possible. That would put the max SPL at closer to 112dB rms. I would say that’s a far more likely number from such a dome.

@bartl006

Жыл бұрын

@@PoesAcoustics perhaps CEDIA RP1 standards will bring their claims back to reality...

Just say it Matt, this was the work of James Larson!!! I joke, I love James😂

@PoesAcoustics

Жыл бұрын

Hah that would have explained so much

Matt, thanks for the content. Please take some of that home theater budget and invest in a better mic. It’s tough to hear you. Thanks again!

@PoesAcoustics

Жыл бұрын

It’s not the mic. These videos were made when my wife was doing all the editing. She wasn’t normalIng sound. I started to normalize and process the sound, but didn’t realize how compressed that opening sequence is so future videos will be better balanced. The newer ones I posted should be easier to hear me but have the side effect of a really loud opening. It’s all normalized to the same peak max, so only explanation left is the compression. The mic on this is a fairly expensive and good sound Rode, it just wasn’t processed right at the end. Levels were low.

Just put two Klipsch LaScala's that have veneers that are WAF approved! Or yes I hate to say it a sound bar on the level you are talking about! You're solutions are good, but LaScala's could be fucking amazing if the client vibed with it!

@Next Level Acoustics make killer LCR soundbars and in-wall subwoofers. Check them out

@PoesAcoustics

Жыл бұрын

I am familiar. I have limited hands on time but would like more. They have some subwoofers that look interesting. A lot of their speakers don’t look great but could sound fine. There is next to no data available and I’ve just not heard them. The in wall subwoofers do look interesting. I don’t believe they offer amps so I am curious how they support integrators around that. If I specify a subwoofer and separate amp, I then need to be able to specify the DSP tuning as well. There is a lot that goes into that. It’s not just EQ but also limiters and bass extension. The best companies put a lot into that and it’s built into their amps.

Honestly the speaker setups are hilarious! That is dog shit! You'd be better off just using the TV's built in speakers!

Fixing room problems is easy. You need to start thinking like a Redneck. Line your walls with some used mattresses.

The room you are in sounds terrible.

the volume is really low! after the intro you might wanna fix that.