Great video Matt, can listen to you talk about home theaters the whole day.

@PoesAcoustics

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Martin. I appreciate the compliment.

I know what you mean about it taking longer than expected, I moved into my house about a year and a half ago and I'm still a long way from finishing. I'm looking forward to seeing your progress, sounds like you're planning a pretty nice system.

Yes I agree a tangerine D215 would be just right. Actually, two please)

Awesome sauce...

@PoesAcoustics

Жыл бұрын

Thanks

DBA: You will be the first in the US. When I speak about that in the US I always laught out. With us in Europe it‘s standard (works even better in concrete rooms). I am testing at the moment an DBA installation with a notch in the rectangular room (grid of 15:15 subwoofer array). Newest developments of Trinnov or newest Version of Storn are interesting in regards to bass in home cinema. At the moment in development are projects in active absorbers >1kW! With that working DBA could get mulitsub alternatives. Other interesting Subwoofer concepts are infrasub (down to under 10Hz). With big closed enclosures with 32“+ chassis (I heard reacently an 80“ chassis from Ascendo). I am trying to bring infrasub to an affordable environment (my first attempt is an testsubwoofer with 2 x 24“ with 350l enclosure each. Problems are DSP handling

@PoesAcoustics

Жыл бұрын

Kieth Yates uses DBA's in some of his installs, so I don't think i would be the first. I also didn't plan for a DBA when I did the theater so I am still working out how I would do this. In hindsight it wasn't so smart and I should have done it. At least wire for it. I have 12/4 burried in the rear wall, but its connected to an existing subwoofer. What I would need to do is a custom set of additional woofers that I can mount into the wall and cut the holes such that I can reach in and remove the wire from the terminals of the existing subs so I can tap into the extra set of leads I am not using. On the front I have a lot more flexibility. It is mostly the back that is a problem. Even in the front, I did the baffle wall in such a way that adding woofers would be hard. I would need to remove the cover and completely redo it. Maybe in some future project. My goal for now is to do a half hearted DBA and see how good a job the DSP processing in the Trinnov can handle it. That has been one of their claims to fame is that the algo can make fairly poor DBA setups work, in fact, non-perfect can even be a benefit giving even better results (within reason of course).

@stefanscharer8533

Жыл бұрын

@@PoesAcoustics To be true: I never did a DBA without concrete walls all around. My hope is to get attention of other bass concepts in the US than mutlisub with your channel/project. In struggeling and learning in DBA project you get even more attention - I am shure about that, and makes you even more sympathic. My first DBA wasn‘t working properly. But with the experince I got smarter. The DSP‘s of Trinnov can handle a DBA (the functions are sufficient). What it lacks is auto-calibration of the DBA. I normally measure with REW and manually enter the results in the Trinnov. If your DBA is that infrasonic-potent, notice that Trinnov can‘t handle

For soundproofing, what did you do for the lights in the ceiling?

Thanks for making and sharing the content. Always very on point. You mention some ceiling material from Europe, I think for acoustic purposes. Can you share what you have in mind please and for what purpose?

@PoesAcoustics

Жыл бұрын

Hi Andy, I was referring to the same Artnovion Siena panel, which is made in Portugal. The Siena comes in many forms, it really just refers to the design. There is a commercial oriented product they sell, similar to the one I bought, that is nothing more than the wood panel and scrim layer. It is easier for ceiling purposes because you can do the treatment of the ceiling as intended and then just put this over it. It can be easily cut to size as well.

Having Trouble With Selecting Home Theater 🎥 Speakers Setup??? I Would Love To Get The PERLISTEN Speakers, But Outta My Range Price Wise @ The Moment!!!! With That Being Said ( Cause None Of These Are Cheap!) Which Speakers Would U Say To Go With Like The Kef's R11 Meta Speakers R6 Meta Speakers And The R3 Meta Speakers Or Arendal 1723 Speakers Set Up Or Martin Logan F 200 Ect.Ect Or Klipsch RF 7iii And Or RC-64 lll Ect.Ect????

Interesting to see how the hush frame performs in comparison to clip and channel when it comes to wall "impedence" and the LF performance of the room and the "lossy" nature of the walls?

@PoesAcoustics

Жыл бұрын

LF performance is very tricky for comparisons. Only one or possibly two labs in the entire country can accurately measure LF transmission loss. None of the clips or even Hushframe were tested there. Even if two products are tested at the same lab, if the lab rooms are too small the data is garbage and can’t be compared. Having used both, I think the performance is largely similar. The silicone polymer elastomer is much more pliable than on the clips I’ve used. That should help lower the natural resonance of the spring. The biggest determining factor in LF transmission loss is always going to be the airgap. The difference between various types of decouplers is going to be in the margins. Meaningful differences will only show up once the walls are made more massive and with a larger airgap. It’s why I always use double stud designs when I can. Nothing can beat it for LF transmission loss.

This is so exciting. So happy for you being able to make this happen. One question though is there Anu concern using sealed and ported subs in the same room?

@PoesAcoustics

Жыл бұрын

Thats a bit of a complicated question to be honest. The correct answer is that you can mix ported and sealed subs and get perfectly great results with the right tools. The more nuanced answer is that it is really difficult to get right and is often much easier to avoid all together. So for most folks, I don't recommend it because the tools needed to integrate it perfectly are advanced tools not available to everyone. You can find yourself in a situation where there is no perfect solution given the tools available to you, and you compromise smoothness above port tuning for extension below. The gist of the problem is simply that ported subs have a 4th order roll-off with a significant phase rotation at port tuning. A sealed box has a 2nd order rolloff with half the phase rotation of the ported design. When combined together, you get cancelation. The final response often rolls off below port tuning fairly rapidly. So why am I doing it? Well its what I have and I want to use what I have. That cabinet actually has a 3rd order roll-off so I likely will have a bit of an easier time. I never did test the subwoofer outside after finishing it, so maybe I will do that first to confirm that the reality met the simulation.

@therianstrauss

Жыл бұрын

@@PoesAcoustics really interesting. I am sure you will make it work though. 👌

@PoesAcoustics

Жыл бұрын

@@therianstrauss I will figure something out. I may change that sub with a Perlisten D215S. I want one on premise to show prospective clients. The center of my system is a surround processor from Trinnov with a lot of capability. The one thing I need and don’t have is all pass filters. But I have some other tools in the Trinnov to help that. They are also developing some new and better bass management tools in the future.

the geometry and build of the projector hush box would be really interesting to see, would it be advantageous to have the rooms exhaust vent inside it so that the heat from the projector is directly extracted and the air movement get quieter? or are there drawbacks to that? ofc the ducting has to be in the right place

@PoesAcoustics

Жыл бұрын

You generally want to be careful where you take air and exhaust it out. Taking air from the theater and exhausting to the adjacent space could cause a negative pressure situation. The air has to be made up somewhere. You also can’t take care from outside nor is it a good idea to exhaust it outside. I would generally recommend taking the air from the theater and exhausting it back into the theater where possible. It is the easiest. The other option is to take the air and exhaust it to an adjacent common space. That would maybe be the ideal but often is not practical.

@niklasxl

Жыл бұрын

@@PoesAcoustics but dont you always need an exchange of air in a well sound insulated room since you barely have any passive air movement? youd think the oxygen would run out. so you of course would have to have the exhaust and intake equal. or do you mean that you build the projector box fully air tight? wouldnt the projector overheat?

@PoesAcoustics

Жыл бұрын

@@niklasxl absolutely. I am not suggesting that you don’t make sure the theater has good air circulation. I am just suggesting that the projector hush box ventilation shouldn’t be it. It needs to be designed into the hvac.

What are your thoughts on a drop ceiling, deep enough to have 4 DYI in ceiling subwoofers, so they end up at 1/4 and 3/4 width, 1/4 and 3/4 length and all of them at 1/4 height down? And then stuff the entire ceiling area with sound absorbing materials. Then put sound transparent fabric over the entire ceiling. How do you best isolate the frame from subwoofer vibration? Will the sound absorbing material of that size, tilt the frequency absorption curve too much?

@PoesAcoustics

Жыл бұрын

The concept of the DBA or SBA can be applied in any direction. With the right DSP processing something like you mention could likely be achieved using a DBA like approach with bass on the ceiling and lower wall area. In any case, what you describe would not be my optimal first choice but is absolutely a direction I would go if I had no better place to put the subwoofers. The reason is because the 1/4 points are good to avoid exciting modes, the absorption further helps that, so we get smooth bass. However, we basically get 0 room gain now. So we need two to four times as many subwoofers or subwoofer output to achieve our requirements. You can achieve equally good results with four corner placement. The method you mention isn't far off from a common one I use for in-ceiling designs. As for the engineering, well...thats why people hire me! There are solutions for isolating the subwoofers from the framing, but a true drop ceiling is going to shake rattle and roll. I wouldn't do that, I would likely just mount the subwoofers as needed and then build an inert frame for the stretch fabric.

@38special4ever

Жыл бұрын

@@PoesAcoustics Many thanks! This is for a small room, with very little available floor space. Since the ceiling will be covered by the acoustically transparent fabric, i might as well suspend the subwoofers from the ceiling using straps hooked to the ceiling :)

@PoesAcoustics

Жыл бұрын

@@38special4ever that makes sense. Work with what you got. We do this all the time.

You are the 1st who mension double bass array /DBA in an US KZread channel , in germany every home theater installed in the basement ist? a must have , DBA or single bass array SBA.

@PoesAcoustics

Жыл бұрын

Yeah the idea originated in Germany. I brought it up because Trinnov is promoting them as part of their new bass management. I want to be able to test them.

Your related channels talks about active speakers as the way of the future. How does Perlisten compare to active speakers like Grimani or Meyer Sound? Why did you go with passive speakers?

@PoesAcoustics

Ай бұрын

So the main issue today with active speakers is not an inherent problem with active speakers. It’s more about the core speaker and the quality of the amplification/dsp. Perlisten speakers have a smoother DI than the two brands you mention. Not because they are passive. Because of the great engineering. It could be done via DSP and I am sure even better results achieved. I use Purifi amps. The Purifi amps are as low noise and distortion as it gets. My system has basically no audible hiss. But the Bluehorn and Grimani sysyems speakers I’ve used do have a bit of hiss. I understand some done care. But that’s something that bugs me. It’s fixable. But would raise costs. As for why I did what I did. Perlisten is an easier product to sell and implement because it’s passive. Appeals to a wider audience. The dealer demo pricing was also attractive.

I got caught up and had to pause the video for a few days, are you just doing one subwoofer? Did I mishear that? If so my room I might be going way overkill.. I was planning on putting 4x 18s in :/

@PoesAcoustics

Жыл бұрын

Hah no not doing one subwoofer. Sorry if I said something in a confusing way. I have a pair of dual 12” in wall subwoofers in the back and a single 18” sub in the front. Two 12” drivers had the displacement of an 18” driver. The room effectively has three 18” subwoofers. The in wall subs are not normal in wall subs. RBH made them and they are the drivers used in the reference subs. The enclosure is 9.5” deep and total volume is I believe around 4 cubic feet. Each enclosure is getting 2000 watts rms. I will likely replace the 18” subwoofer with a Perlisten D215S. Just a single, but would still keep the in wall subs. So there would be the same total number of LF sources in the room. I am also exploring other ideas but I want to wait until I hear back on what Trinnov is doing with their new bass management. I might build in some custom subwoofers into the front and rear walls to create a dual bass array. I can only do that if their processing allows for some non-ideal placement. If their software will still expect a perfect layout with drivers at the quarter points, then it won’t work. It is technically possible to do what I want to do, but I just don’t know if Trinnov is going that route. Samsung engineers wrote a paper about it and it’s possible they hold some sort of patent on the secret sauce. I am never against a little excess in the bass department. I just designed a room with subwoofers on every wall, and another with eight 21” subs.

@commanderrussels2612

Жыл бұрын

@@PoesAcoustics Ah okay! Makes sense. do you think i'm overkill putting 4x JTR RS1s in a 16x12x9 room? That was my plan for my theater I'm working on. I have a giant open space living room I'm using 4x JTR RS1s in now and planned to just move those to the tiny theater when it was done, but...Alternatively I could use 2x and then keep the other two in my living room...but I mostly just care about the theater. It's a one row theater. What do you think?

@PoesAcoustics

Жыл бұрын

@@commanderrussels2612 of course that’s overkill. But it isn’t going to hurt anything. It’s not like you can’t turn it down. And when you want the excessive bass levels you got it. It’s always better to have limitless dynamics.

@commanderrussels2612

Жыл бұрын

@@PoesAcoustics thanks man, gunna go for it!

What screen and size you go with?

@PoesAcoustics

Жыл бұрын

Seymour Screen Excellence Enlightnor Neo. 16:9. I can’t recall the exact size anymore. It’s spaced to fit on my screen wall, so in the neighborhood of around 120” wide with the frame. Maybe like 112” wide screen.