*High Quality Audio Alert! Headphones Recommended!* Skip to 08:25 for the sound comparisons! Today, I am going to show you why you DON'T want to sum your stereo guitar signal to mono. I'll walk you through exactly what it means to sum your stereo signal, and ways you can get a mono signal out of your stereo rigs, without wrecking your tone! Let us know what you think in the comments!

@itechstrum

3 жыл бұрын

Sometimes I don't wanna bring along two Powercab 112 Plus, I'm plugging left on the first input and right on the second input of the PC112+, I'm hearing both left and right on a mono fashion, or maybe I'm under a placebo effect? lol. Am I doing the right thing?

@patrickrobinson1935

3 жыл бұрын

shots fired @jhs

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

@@patrickrobinson1935 no shots fired, would apply to any sum box, JHS or otherwise.

@patrickrobinson1935

3 жыл бұрын

@@VertexEffectsInc yes I have been considering running rig in stereo only to discover most stereo pedals aren't TRUE stereo anyway unless they have dual effects engines

@GearSounds

3 жыл бұрын

You taught me a great lesson today. NEVER USE ANOTHER JHS PRODUCT. LOL no but really, this was an amazing breakdown. The mono sounded better than the summed signal.

Can’t believe I’m just finding this video…. Could have saved me so much trial and error. Underrated - awesome comparison. Thanks!

This is amazing information!!! I am a first time pedalboard user setting my first pedalboard after running Rack Mount multi-effects processor units for over 30 years and I am now hooked on pedals!! My wife is rolling her eyes watching me react to the sound demonstration in this video... I LOVE IT!! THANK YOU!!!

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful! Thank for watching Mark!

Finally! I was waiting for this topic! Thanks Rig Doctor! ;)

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Yes!!!

Really interesting, and amazingly clear examples! Learned a lot, Thank you!

@JazzRockswithAdam

3 жыл бұрын

Jens, Mason tends to have a knack for that. 😉

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Adam!

Your the one I can trust to give the highest level of knowledge for anything that's pedal or pedalboard related. I was about to buy the "Walrus Audio Canvas Mono Line Isolator D.I.", that has the summing to mono feature, but after hearing and seeing this video explanation, I'm going for the Canvas stereo model instead. It's so appreciated, thank you.

I really appreciate your clear explanations on what's going on in the signal chain, it really helps people who don't know that much (like me) to work towards getting the sound that I want so thank you! I learn something every time I watch one of your videos

@VertexEffectsInc

2 жыл бұрын

Glad to help!

Super helpful! So glad I watched this before pulling the trigger on a summing box.

@VertexEffectsInc

2 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

Your videos are always helpful. Thanks for the knowledge. I was planning to set up a summing switch on my w/d/w pedalboard for when mono is my only option. Thanks to this video, I've saved myself a lot of trial and error.

Dude, I've been trying to figure this out for a while! Thanks!

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Glad I could help!

I’ve almost always ran a mono live rig until getting the HX Stomp last year. Now I’m running stereo “amps” almost all the time and have considered a summing box for times when I can’t have two inputs at the sound board. The HX Stomp outputs in either Mono or Stereo depending on what is plugged in the outputs when you power it up. So I’ve just done this power up trick a couple times to run it in mono but kind of felt I was missing out and was planning to get a summing box in the near future. So the timing on this video was excellent, and very informative. It’s nice to know I don’t need another pedal for once. 🤣

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you found it helpful!

Thanks for using your platform to make this PSA. Feel like anyone with ears and a brain should be able to hear the difference on their own.

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Yes indeed!

The idea of hard panning a stereo signal path to only one side to convert it to mono is great! Never thought of it. Also, excelent info on this video, fhanks.

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

For sure, it's definitely the move! Even not doing the hard pan for pedals that don't have that option still is often better sounding that summing.

Some of you won’t believe it but this video combined with a little more research sold me on a JHS summing amp as a practical, second best option for my stereo rig

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

If you like the sound, go for it

@isaacramsey6145

3 жыл бұрын

@@VertexEffectsInc it works well enough as a less than perfect option for playing things that will eventually be put in stereo. I keep the box on a practice amp, not the pedal board. Still very much appreciated the knowledge you shared in this video!

I was looking into mono summing the last few days because I decided not to take the full rig to most places when we can go out again. When I did this in the past I pulled every „right“ in and out on all of my stereo pedals to go mono and plugged them back in when back home. I need to check if the last pedal in my chain can pan but anyway guess I‘ll just be using the Left/mono out from now on. Thank you for this great video!

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching!

Thanks for the very useful video. Helped me deal with issues getting outputs from a range of stereo devices into my mainly single channel mixer.

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

You're welcome!

Good stuff. Always learning something new from you!

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Glad to help! Thank you for watching!

Nice video. I will compare the sounds with my solution. This is what i was doing to get mono sounds: 1. Disconect the R output of the chorus. 2. In the eventide h9, general settings, select pre/post routing (pre is left) 3. The switcher musicomlab EFX LE, in utilities theres is an option to select loop 5 & 6 in mono or stereo return and loop 6 mono send. I change all to mono.

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Hector, 1) that would work, but we're presuming here, like most people that are running a stereo rig, that they don't want to disconnect their pedals each time they run mono versus stereo - this will help solve the polarity/phase issue, but still not resolve the overall issue of the mono sum. 2) If you're still connected with stereo in and out on the H9 the pre/post won't help you and will just mess up the signal path and turn your input B/output B into an effects loop. 3) Yes, but this is still the same issue of a mono summing box, you're doing the sum with outboard gear not native to the stereo pedal - same problem as shown in the video - it's still a mix bus summing amp.

Great explanation! Doctor, you are right! Summing affects the tone quality! I 've been playing left out mostly, but sometimes I could run stereo and it was just like your description, especially the mix!

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching!

What a great exposition of this somewhat complicated subject. Thank you! I still have questions about how stereo pedals can be accommodated on a board.

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching

Thanks Doc, Your vids and replies are really helpful and appreciated.

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

My pleasure!

I liked and subscribed! This was very informative, and the sound quality was as good as the content. Great job with the sound clips and the discussion around the issue. I have some stereo-capable pedals and some mono pedals, so this hit home; it's like, what's the BEST way to run these into an amp -- or two amps (or two channels on an audio interface or mixer, in a live sound scenario).

You always have great advice that makes sense! Thanks!!

After watching this I'm going to have to somehow wire my pedalboard either for mono or stereo use when I record. I usually just go direct in and use an amp sim or external unit. Playing in bands for over twenty years, I've always always run a mono board for band gigs. Stereo sounds great if you can get away with it but usually unless there's a sound guy for the PA it's too much work. There are still lots of small clubs that don't even have PAs for use. Informative video, thanks.

@VertexEffectsInc

2 жыл бұрын

Glad you dug the video Ron!

Top Notch, and very common sense, thanks for posting

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

This makes total sense! Also I always noticed that my dry/wet mix ratio seemed to change when stereo summing with less effect heard in the mix. Tried just using the L output and that sounds much clearer while keeping the effect mix as intended! Thanks.

Dude those long helping hands in the back is a stellar idea! I have shitloads of those air directors

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Yes indeed!

This is gold 🙌🏻🎸

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

I'm so glad you dig it!

I run my Boss DD-20 in parallel by "jumping" output 1 into input 2. It really opens up the delay and all I need is an extra patch cable since I don't have access to the software. Great info, love the video.

@obhmusic

3 жыл бұрын

not parralel..

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing!

I mostly used 2 amps for stereo But I have a Fender Princeton chorus which happens to have a true stereo FX loop which also allows for drive pedals to be in fronts and modulation and delay through loop.Nice Video!!

It just happens that I am using my rig the way you prescribed. But I didn't think too much about, it was just logical to me and sounded right. I haven't really even considered buying a summing device, and I was always a little bit unsure why anyone wants it or uses it. Now I get it. It is hard for people that have unprogramable stereo pedals to do it other way. My only issue was with my stereo delays so I created a copy of all of my presets without the 'ping pong' atribute, and than it all sounds right, it feels like the pedal (Echolution 2 deluxe by Pigtronix) sends the same signal trough both outputs when it has ping pong effect disabled. Anyway, the difference you showed is very audible (although even trough sum box it sounds very decent) and I am intrigued. And the best news is-the solution is easy and free. This is not just another video ad that tells you that you need to buy a very special little magical device that will actually do the trick ...no, just experiment and get rid off sum device if you don't really need it.

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for watching!

I'm glad I found this video. I've been experimenting with the JHS Summing Amp pedal on my bass rig and it just didn't sound right. I couldn't figure it out. What you described is what I have been hearing. And I can still return the JHS pedal so thank you for the info.

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

For some things it might be helpful, and it doesn't have anything to do with his product, just summing externally will have this issue generally.

good video! I have a question, if you are going to play live and you go to a table, I understand that it is better to put the effects in stereo on two channels, right?

This is the opinion of a giging musician for over 20 years in goa and the world. Thanks for spreading the wise. Commenting through my wife's account BTW

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

thanks for watching!

You just saved me money. Thank you!

@VertexEffectsInc

2 жыл бұрын

Glad I could help!

Awesome content - very concise, very representative. I've been working through a front/loop switching setup that utilizes 2 amps, 2 cabs (live), or into 2 CaptorX for desk recording. I use simple FX up front (VP, wah, deja-vibe, boost), then this gets fed into a GCX8 with isolated loops for a variety of effects (all front end) with out being split (Lehle S-go-S). Where I'm experiencing some oddities is with the stereo TimeFactor & Reverb in the loops of both amps. Sounds great live, not so much when punched through the CaptorX's into the DAW. I find separating the channels into 2 mono per amp (L and R) sounds almost better than going with the I/O's default setting of Stereo. Frustrating. But this video may be the nugget I need to experiment with to get to where I need my stereo FX to land. Thank you!!

Thanks for that topic! 👍

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

My pleasure! Thanks for watching!

I’m custom building an EVH pedal switch with 2 stereo on the left and 4 mono on the right. 2 separate inputs, one dry channel input output and one stereo input output for the wet side. Basically 2 boxes in one enclosure. For the wet side or stereo side I will have TSR jacks for send and return with 4pdt switch and for dry side I will use TS jacks with 3pdt switches. LED’s, all bypass when not activated. Also one master switch on dry input and one master switch on stereo input. I can forgo the master input switches. The stereo side will be labeled as Cathedral (for the boss sde3000 EVH delay) and DDLS for the Eventide micro pitch delay. The output on stereo side will go to an interface box to connect the pedal snake. I think I can make an led work on the 4pdt switch. The output jacks mono will have a resistor between the lugs but I’m not sure if I can do that for the stereo output jacks. Might have to run 2 resistors??? Does this sound right?

Great explanation and example.

Good stuff! I wish you'd also demoed the summing of a wet-dry rig. That's where I see the value of summing boxes like the JHS.

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

I don't think you'll hear much benefit, same as the stereo rig to the mono rig summed.

Pro as always. Thnxx bro❤

This is great. Think I might have inspired this one after asking about a summing mod on the DIY buffer video, to which Mason was kind enough to respond then-and in even more detail now. Ive been putting the final touches on a fully hand-wired board the last six months and I began feeling really guilty about not fully utilizing my big-box Strymons in stereo. They do sound amazing, but dragging two amps to the kinds of places I generally get to play isn’t practical. No matter how great the board is, it’s going to be in mono 98% of the time. Will probably program mono and stereo presets on my midi switcher one day, but I think this board will still be mono when (if?) it has an opportunity to debut.

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

We've had a lot of requests for this over the years. Wanted to show some examples and some easy work-arounds. There can be a place for a mono sum, I just don't prefer it, sonically, to doing it the way I demo'd in the video. There may be some cases where you don't have the option to go into the software to adjust and maybe the mono sum might sound better than Left output only, but it's not been my experience.

Thanks for this! Has been on my mind recently if L/mono out is best for my mono setup

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

You bet!

Thanks! I've been thinking about summing (Timeline > Flint then into HX Stomp Stereo or single amp depending on where I'm playing) but this has shed light on a few of my questions.

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

I'm glad you found it helpful!

@redcomn

3 жыл бұрын

Didn't flint has stereo input tho.

Nice Video! this is actually my problem. I have Timeline and Bigsky at the end of my chain and because of home recording I was able to wire it in stereo then plug into audio interface in stereo. When going on live sessions I use only 1 amp and I have to remove all the stereo connection from Timeline to Bigsky because if I don't it will only give me half sound to the amp. Its a hassle pulling out pedals and patches.

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Glad I could help!

this video rocks, thank you!

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it!

It'd be a huge help when you're doing these types of videos to have a section at the end where you go between the different setups with no breaks between so we can directly compare them to each other. Nice video!

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Are the wav. files not in the description?

@brianspaid8986

3 жыл бұрын

@@VertexEffectsInc I'm not seeing them. Where are they linked? Thanks!

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

@@brianspaid8986 I'll double check it, I think they were posted on there so you could listen on soundcloud yourself.

@brianspaid8986

3 жыл бұрын

@@VertexEffectsInc Ah, got it. Thanks. Appreciate it!

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

@@brianspaid8986 Sure thing!

Interesting video...great information. I never setup a stereo rig for live playing...

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

certainly can make things diffiult.

I have a whole pedal board going into a line6 hx one (mono left) then out in stereo into 2 seperate amps. No humming, no phase switching.

I run stereo sometimes with two amps or two modelers. My HX Stomp for stereo delays and a Walrus Audio stereo programable reverb after that. I do use the Goodwood Audio interfacer for phase/ground correction when needed. But I found it actually easiest to just have a whole set of new presets that are mono. No summing or anything. Then I don’t even worry.

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

That's the best move, as I say in the video :)

@mikael.cherin

3 жыл бұрын

This is interesting, because of the Stomp itself. Question: hook up a stereo pedal (lets say a SA Ventris or Nemesis) to the stomp using its stereo send and returns. No blocks added in the signal chain after the S/R block. All is fine and wide and cosy. What to do if one would record all this in mono? Do we pull the R plug from the SA pedal? Or do we have to change the S/R block also in the stomp? Hm... i guess This is a question that L6 folks should be able to answer. The manual doesnt touch on the subject though.

Summing boxes are great when used for solo boost and trails split with slap back on AB box. Helps with the trio lead drop off issue when returning back to rhythm and vice versa. The "trio trick" if you will.

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Haven't heard this nor do I understand how you're suggesting this be ordered in the signal path.

Thanks for the video I am a percussive guitarist and I have a live performance next mounth, my guitar has two different pickups, one for the srtrings and other one for the percussion and this pickups have seperate output jacks. I use Fender ABY pedal to connect both jacks into one single amp, is it gonna affect two much? should I borrow another amp to have two amps?

@VertexEffectsInc

2 жыл бұрын

Those are two different source that likely hit a mixer...or should...it's a little different than this.

Thanks for this insight. Say I'm using two Boss IR-200s with 2xL & 2xR outputs. Could I sum the 2xL together and 2xR to go into my mixer? I think perhaps there may not be the issues you suggest in this video but would like your advice. Thanks.

I used Goodwood audio output and that has 2 sum options, left only or combine L and R, plus phase and ground loop. Worked great for me when I used it

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

I think it's just one sum option and the other one is the left only as I suggest. The polarity switch won't be that valuable in mono, in particular if one of your pedals upstream inverts, but I don't think it's an active summing network is it? I don't think you can control the mix, it's just 50/50 L to R. Equally the ground lift isn't useful on the summed output or the mono (what they're calling split summed, but it's just mono) as you're only running a signal amp presumably? If you compare the summed stereo to the hard panned left mono as we did here - I think you'll hear the difference just like you did in the clips we compared here in real time.

@bjstickney

3 жыл бұрын

@@VertexEffectsInc yes the polarity and ground lift are just for stereo. It’s just nice to have the left only option as opposed to just 50 50 split. Great informative video. I love playing in stereo but only do it at home now haha. Carrying 2 amps isn’t fun lol

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

@@bjstickney I hear ya, thanks for watching!

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

@@bjstickney I hear ya!

Great video...Thank you

Most non-programmable stereo pedals do not do output summing if they have two inputs connected. TCE, Boss, Digitech, etc. are almost all like this. Make sure you test your last pedal in the chain to see if it's summing, or just passing L/R through separately. In my case, if I run a ping-pong delay, I just lose one of the delays. I use a small micro-mixer on my board for cases like that.

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching Jeff and for your comment!

Great info.

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

🙏🙏🙏

I first ran into this problem without even having a summing box... in a studio session, I tracked stereo (stereo wired pedalboard into two amps mic'd as a left and right channels). We had it panned hard in the control room and it sounded fantastic. But the mix engineer wanted some parts not hard panned, but placed within the stereo field. When he did this, the reverbs and delays from my board seemed to almost disappear. He then used DAW plugins to try to restore the original guitar sounds. So frustrating. I imagine this happens, to some degree, somewhere, in any room I run my stereo rig. I wish effects builders could figure out beautiful stereo algorithms that sum gracefully.

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Ideally, if you're running any multi-amp set up you should still have a polarity switch for this reason, even if your rig is all in the proper polarity the amps often can be mis matched. You can do this with boxes like the Lehle P Split or you can get a speaker cable that inverts the polarity as an easy work around.

@Christbearer57

3 жыл бұрын

So confusing....polarity, phase....I don’t understand these aspects at all, either in the pedals, or two amps setup

@telecasper

3 жыл бұрын

@@Christbearer57 this topic would need a deep dive Rig Doctor! Also never thought boosts and the DS1 (?!?) inverted polarity??? Why do manufacturer do this and can this be an issue in a standard mono rig?

Hey Vertex! Thanks for the vid. Question: my rig is currently running stereo delay into stereo reverb, out to two amps, out to FOH console with a dedicated channel for each amp. However, the mains are mono. So the summing is happening at the console. The nice wide stereo mix in my IEMs is great, but do you think it's problematic for what the crowd hears out of the mains? If so, what would be a better approach? Thanks for your time!

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

I don’t think there’s any reason to adjust your rig if the mixer is doing it, sort of out of your control at that point, you could of course experiment to see if just a straight mono mix into the input made any real sonic difference, but I highly doubt it, plus if you used it in any other application where you could go through stereo I don’t know that it would be worth disrupting your Pedalboard

Couldn't find anyone who asked this already in the comments: is using stereo breakout cables to connect multiple 2 output, 1 input pedals worth it? (Strymon Flint into Strymon Deco.) Or does this have the same effect as a sum box? Am I better off sticking with the Left output of the Flint into the Deco? (I could test this myself, but I haven't picked up the stereo breakout/splitter cables yet.) Thanks for your help and for this informative video!

@VertexEffectsInc

2 жыл бұрын

The stereo input jack is the same as any stereo pedal with stereo inputs it's just using a single TRS jack instead of two TS jacks. Doesn't change anything about the recommendations here.

What would you recommend in the case where I currently use a Timeline and BigSky as my only stereo pedals and I plan to use the Goodwood Audio Interfacer as my junction box? I saw where the manual gives 2 different summing options: Stereo Sum - This is the default mode The TX Interfacer ships with. In this mode use stereo effects as normal. When summed, the left and right inputs are merged and the exact same signal is sent to the left and right outputs. Split sum - Still use stereo effects as normal. When summed, the right input is ignored and the left input is split to both left and right outputs. Would split sum be the same as essentially just using my left outputs? Or would I better off to unplug all stereo cables and only use the left output of the interfacer? (I'm assuming just using the left output of the interfacer would be akin to running just the left out of my BigSky)

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

I'm not sure of there definition but technically there should be no "SUM" just one output used. I would just leave it as a stereo interface and plug into only one output if that's an option, there shouldn't be any summing occurring in this case.

The best sound for me was with the sum to mono with the GHS pedal. I am listening to all sounds through my Denon AH-D2000 headphones which I use it for all my mixes. It never fails. The stereo image with the pedals in stereo is disappointing in some way (maybe it has to do with what you mentioned about the factory mix blends). The stereo setup with two amps is good, but to me I don't really feel the stereo "image" taking place. In other words, there is a difference of course but is not too big for me. Maybe tweaking a little bit more with parameters you could find a setup which the stereo image its more present. So my decision basically was "which setup sound better?". In the end, as a guitarist, that's what I'm looking for and I am surprised that the one I liked most was with the sum to mono. By the way I'm a fan of vertex and your work, congrats for all the videos and amazing knowledge you display for all of us musicians. You save our lives! :) Aloha!

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

cool

Hey Mason, thanks to your continuous effort on teach people to know better their rigs (including me). I've been thinking to split my signal in 2 mono after the preamp (JCM800 style amp), one to go with no effects and the other to use my digital effects on killdry. Then summing back. Reason? I want to avoid analog-digital converting at my dry signal. What are your thoughts on this summing? Devices to indicate? Thanks again.

Sorry I’m so late to reply. Thanks very much for the video! Super informative!! Wish the bigsky had hard panning capabilities

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

There are things you can do to manipulate this, but also just using the left only output will still get you better results and the SUM IMO.

@joshfirlotte

3 жыл бұрын

@@VertexEffectsInc yeah I would like to do that. Do you know in the pbc6x, I have the bigsky in a stereo loop. If I tell that loop that it should be mono instead of stereo and just unplug the left side of the insert cable, would that technically work?

@joshfirlotte

3 жыл бұрын

I guess tell both the send and return to be mono and unplug the left in and left out of each insert cable

Thanks for the video! What about if I run a 2x12 box with the speakers wired stereo in it? (with 2 inputs of course) Could the phase cancelling happen inside the box? Can the 2 speaker "weakens" each other? Or could this effect be negligible?

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Your cabinet won't change anything.

You're right...huge difference.

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Yes! Don't wreck your stereo tone!!!

I do like your setup using the Active Summing Network. Within this system, I like the Mono (Left) Output because of the sound and the fact you are using only one amp. My question is would the amp still need the effects Loop?

What about my acoustic board, I run an HX Stomp, I was wanting to get a Walrus Canvas, the mono Canvas has a Sum button that allows you to run stereo in and mono out, it’s cheaper than the stereo canvas pedal, is it worth it?

Is this just the case if you’re running into one amp with stereo effects into it? I ask because I’m running the UA dream and Ruby in stereo then summing after with my Alexander space force via trs cable. So my signal is dry effects> mono into the fever pitch by Alexander> left and right out of the fever pitch to the dream and Ruby> the dream and Ruby go into the starlight left and right> left and right out goes to the Alexander space force via y trs cable> the space force sums left and right so I can run it just out of the left output. I’m not sure what the mix is for left and right summing on the space force. Any suggestions that would optimize this? Sometimes I’m able to run stereo and most times I’m not, but I enjoy the Ruby and dream together vs one of them on there own. I did this to keep from having to switch back and forth from mono to stereo.

This video was a huge eye opener for me Mason. Thank you! Gonna try and compare to see how bad it is in my rig 😅. I don’t have a pedal like the H9 that can intrinsically pan like you did, but I was just curious as to how panning everything left is different than summing to mono. It sounded better and totally different, but it seemed like the signal was summed within the H9 via panning everything left. I may not be aware enough to really know what’s going on, but I’d figured I ask haha Also, in stereo, my chorus pedal leaves the L dry and the R vibrato. So together it’s the lush chorus sound, but if I only wen L it would sound dry and if I only went R it would just be vibrato. In this case would the only option be unplugging the cables?

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

If you can't pan it internally to hard left for the mono stuff, yes, unplugging it or putting a toggle to short the R output jack would be the only way.

I enjoy and learn so much from your video. Your wealth of knowledge is so useful to the pedal community. Thank you

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching J Bert

Great video and a real eye opener for me. Is there a way to pan the output of the H9 to 100% left without having a noticeable effect engaged? For example, if I had 2 stereo pedals engaged before the H9, could I set up a preset on the H9 so that it pans the output 100% left without adding any reverb/delay/etc? Would wet-dry routing and something like a flat EQ preset (Wet L, Dry R) work?

@VertexEffectsInc

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, you can do it to the H9 in the app software for the H9 only, it won't work for other stereo pedals before or after it.

Yea. Phase cancelation happens. It's not a huge deal from my experience though. I'm using a Goodwood interfacer to sum a DD-5, Deco, Timeline, H9, and Flint. The mono signal does have a slightly attenuated wet signal, but I'm not mad. I play mono most of the time, so I just push my effect level a bit more.

@VertexEffectsInc

2 жыл бұрын

It will depend on the effects, modulation is where its most common. Why not just use the left output only, it’s less of a compromise than the sum.

Hi Mason, I have a old Lexicon MPX 1 that I want use mono with a Lehle Parallel Sw II in the FX Loop of my Mesa Stiletto. The MPX manual recommends switching the Input internal to mono L and use a Y- Cable to sum the L+R Output to Mono '' for best sonic'' performance. Now I'm not sure how to connect the thing. Do we have the same case here that you are describing. Do I loose something if I just connect Amp-Send to Left IN and Amp- Return to Left out?

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

You're going to have some compromise, you're basically doing what the summing box is doing but with a cable, or a version of a sum with a Y-cable.

Sorry if you addressed this already (I looked over the comments pretty well). I have a stomp, timeline, and big sky all wired in stereo. If I leave left and right cables into all the inputs but only go into one amp out of the Left, will it include my full signal or will the bigsky only send out half? I play in stereo and mono equally on this rig so I’d love to not have to take out the cables.

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Jon, you'll get the left only...no really half the signal, just what's processed to be on the left side. Ideally you'd create separate presets for mono that give you the best version of the L and R effects. As you can see the Summing, even if you prefer it in these examples, is a compromise just as much as going mono out of a stereo wired rig - I think even better. The devices aren't designed to be summed with external hardware like the summing boxes do.

Please make a video on how to make a proper stereo pedalboard for the beginners. Thank you

@VertexEffectsInc

Жыл бұрын

See our rig build videos playlist on our main KZread homepage, there are many :)

So how does this work if you create a junction box at the end of your board with option for mono plus stereo. I.e. if you use mono in your junction box is it just summing the stereo signal ?

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

That's what this video was demonstrating. That is summing stereo to mono - the exact issue this video is addressing.

"SO THAT WAS MY CASE" My Speakers were so loud to hear the differences then that took my head off lol

i have a hx stomp, and i want to plug my left output to PA and right output to fx return of an amp. What should i use for presets ? get a stereo effects or just a mono effects for the preset? thankyou

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

You can arrange the software internally to have this be a split mono output I believe.

Little off subject question! When you use a stereo effect pedal to split the signal (as opposed to say an active ABY switch) to two amps like you seem to have done in this video, is there a significative signal loss? Or the only difference between active aby switchers and stereo effects pedal when it comes to signal splitting is the ability to flip the phase and ground option? Should the stereo effect pedal in this application be buffered? Thanks!

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

If you're using the last stereo pedal to split to a stereo set up it should be the same on both the L and R presuming they're the same amps, set the same. Not all stereo devices invert so you may not necessarily have an issue. If you use two different amps for these stereo image the amps might have inverted polarity so that could also be a problem, but you can resolve this easily with getting an inverted speaker cable and using it on one. The only issue you can't sold is the isolation, most stereo pedals don't have any galvanic isolation like this and will require some sort of iso transformer if you do have hum.

What I find amusing about this "STEREO" problem is that the guitar was never stereo to begin with. I understand the idea and I think that it's a great goal. I will eventually be using my guitar as a stereo instrument. "STEREO" is what you make of it. I will probably be using 2 totally different type of amps and use mikes for recording. Make your use totally creative and print the words "NOW IN STEREO" on your album jacket!

@78tag

3 ай бұрын

.... sorry but I respectfully disagree. Back in the day the Gibson es345 was specifically designed to push a stereo signal through a Gibson stereo amp. That was when the "big boys" predicted everything was going hi-fi / stereo - it never caught on.

I have pedals that are stereo and some only have 1 input and 1 output (mono) how should I combine the two to get a stereo at the end of the chain?

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Stereo effects, in particular, delay and reverb, should be at the end of the chain if you plan to use them in stereo. Your mono effects would lead into the stereo effects.

I have a question, I have stereo pedals and a switcher. What do i need to do to still have the stereo setup, because the switcher only has 1 output and only 1 send return inputs

@VertexEffectsInc

2 жыл бұрын

Ideally you need a stereo switcher.

Hello sir, I have a multieffect guitar that has a left right output.. I have a powered speaker that has two inputs.. if I connect the Left output multieffect to the first input on the speaker and the Right ouput multieffect to the second input on the speaker, is there sound the result is stereo??

@78tag

3 ай бұрын

That was a great question. I'd really like to know how he filters the questions that he responds to. Seems to be highly selective.

Bro thank you so much 🙏🤘

@VertexEffectsInc

2 жыл бұрын

Welcome 😊

If someone serves my experience with a line 6 helix. I have a preset with a stereo amp setup using a feature called ''split''. What I do is I split the signal from amp A in parallel and add another amp B and they are back in the signal flow. So, A and B are panned to R and L respectively. There are delay blocks and stereo reverbs in each amp. I have 2 options. When I want to go out in stereo I use the 2 XLR outputs towards the mix and I have all the beauty of STEREO. But when it is not possible and I need to go out in mono I do the following. I have 2 canons connected to the Helix's XLR outputs but I only send the left/mono side to the mix input. If I disconnect the cable on the right side it feels like the sound gets smaller. If I plug it back in it returns a more open sound. I assume this is summing in stereo? Could you explain to me what is happening there?

@VertexEffectsInc

Жыл бұрын

In integrated devices like this that have all your pedal under one roof like the HX and Helix you can get away with it since they have their own programming and mixing internally. Using a series of external pedals however, can't do this or if you feed stereo pedals into your Helix, you'll have the same issue as described in this video. If you stay native in the Helix you can do this more easily regarding the summing.

I didn't even know mono summing was a thing until I watched this video. If I'm running two amps, I have a second board that I connect to my stereo fx on my main board. If I'm running one amp, I just use the main board plugged in to the left channels. EZPZ. Why complicate?

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

I think some believe it will sound closer to the stereo sound, it just won't.

I’m running wet effects in stereo of the fx loop of the stomp and I let that sum to mono, does it make a difference if I hard pan like in the video? I end up sending mono signal to FOH and mono to a stage monitor most of the time, but I’m hoping to record in stereo more often

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

If you're running one amp, no reason to sum the stereo image to mono.

Lemme ask your something kinda related to your video. Imagine I have a stereo chorus pedal. Will it sound the same if I use: 1. Overdrive -> chorus -> 2 amps 2. Chorus -> two overdrives, one for each channel -> 2 amps. I never tried the second scenario, but I'm wondering if it would sound like double recorded guitars. I know the first set up doesn't. Actually, I wonder if it would actually sound like that without the chorus effect, and only double separated channels. In other words, I'm wondering if I should buy a second overdrive pedal and set my overdrive pedals after the channel split provided by a stereo effect pedal. I'm mainly thinking about getting better distorted rhythm guitar sounds. I don't like how they sound with setup 1 when I turn chorus on to get stereo sound. Thank you!

@VertexEffectsInc

2 жыл бұрын

I guess if you're trying to do something different but typically chorus before distortion isn't a sound people go for.

@MusiCaninesTheMusicalDogs

2 жыл бұрын

@@VertexEffectsInc Thank you very much! 😁

I have a mono rig and I always use the mono out of my stereo pedals. These pedals are normally at the end of the chain. This way I’m simplifying the rig with less hops.

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

That makes it easy for sure! Thanks for watching!

What would you say about the Empress Stereo+ Buffer pedal? It allows you to sum to mono. Would this have the ability to translate the proper stereo spread into a single amp? Or would the compromise be the same? Thanks for the content 🤘

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Sum is a Sum...the problem is that the pedals that are in stereo aren't made to be summed to mono with external boxes, it doesn't matter what the summing network is. You can of course do the test yourself that I did here and record it in true mono, true stereo, summed mono, and then stereo with just the left output hard panned and compare.

@Christbearer57

3 жыл бұрын

How do you hard pan an analog (I think) pedal, like Strymon Lex

Great video! Very educational. I just don't understand why someone would go from stereo back to Mono. I'm weird that way.

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

I think the idea of what a "Sum" does is different than what it does in actuality.

@imyourmutter

3 жыл бұрын

It's really practical if you have your rig wired up for stereo and then all of a sudden you find a situation where you can only run mono. Rather than try to unplug cables between pedals, having something that can help you sum back to mono is handy. He gives some good suggestions here. I have used the Neunaber Immerse in the past (it is capable of taking in a stereo signal but only outputting mono) as well as the Strymon Iridium (which can do the same thing as the Immerse). It's handy having effects that can do this, rather than needing a separate box to sum.

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

@@imyourmutter for effects that are designed to be summed, it's fine - most aren't as you've probably seen.

Very Informative, Uncle Mason🙏🙏 Love the fact that you take time to reply all of the comments and questions no matter big or small😊 Great work as always

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Try my best! Thanks for watching!

Thanks for the explanation. This may have been asked and answered, but what if you have 2 stereo effects but neither has stereo in, only stereo outs. For example: an fx processor and a delay/reverb pedal that don't have stereo inputs. Current set up is as follow: Guitar>fx processor input>fX processor. FX processor: left mono output>Delay/Reverb pedal input. Delay/Reverb pedal left output to Left Amp. Delay /Reverb Pedal right output to right amp. Is there a way to achieve stereo from both effects or does the mono left in either unit kill the stereo effect before the last stereo effect in the chain?

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

Typically if you go out mono on the last effect you're only getting one side of the stereo image with the treatment associated with that output in terms of the balance of the L to R ratio of the stereo mix.

@grooveu1965

3 жыл бұрын

@@VertexEffectsInc Thank you for the info. A bit more research on my effects shows that one of my pedals(Atlantic Reverb/Delay) has a breakout cable ability for stereo. If I go left and right out of my floor FX processor to the Atlantic(end of the chain going out to stereo left and right to both amps) with the Y connector I think I'll achieve stereo from both units. We'll see how it works out.

Hye Mason.. School me about insert output .. how can i use with my line 6 m5.. i want my m5 run in stereo efx ( delays / reverb ) .. Hows the chain for setting up? Thanks 🙏

@VertexEffectsInc

Жыл бұрын

Don't understand the question....

I appreciate the video and the advice, but I'm struggling to understand the results a bit. I understand why simple summing doesn't work, since you then get the phase cancellation that nullifies the chorus. However, if that's the case, I don't understand why "summing" the chorus with a hard left pan in the eventide actually works. Surely by panning left it's summing both channels, and surely that would be subject to the same phase cancellation issues as any other method of summing? Or is it literally just entirely discarding the right channel of the chorus? Obviously you can *hear* that it sounds better, but I'm struggling to understand why on a technical level. My current plan is to use a Strymon Iridium's sum output at the end of my chain to sum back to stereo, since I've only got one mono amp but would like my board to be able to use stereo when recording directly. I'm a bit hesitant to do that now, though I don't see any better options without rewiring the entire board any time I want to use my amp.

@VertexEffectsInc

Жыл бұрын

When you're doing the summing within the pedal, it's fine, it's designed to work with the software of the pedal to pan the signal left or right internally. However, you do it externally with hardware instead of the native software, now you have a problem...and will have a problem no matter what gear you use. These pedals aren't made or designed to be summed outside of the walls of their respective circuit and enclosures (if they even offer an internal sum). The SUM output on the Strymon is the same issue...using external hardware to sum pedals before it...doesn't work that way. It can "sum" itself just fine (if you're just running the Iridium from stereo to mono and it's your only stereo pedal), but as soon as you use it so sum pedals feeding it, you have the same problem you heard here.

@Jademalo

Жыл бұрын

@@VertexEffectsInc Right, I think I understand, thanks! I think I know what I misunderstood - I thought you were implying that summing the mod pedal digitally using the pan controls of the H9 was better than summing afterwards or simply discarding a channel. This didn't make any sense to me, since analogue and digital summing would have exactly the same issues. I think the answer is that there's absolutely no difference between sending a stereo signal into the H9 and panning compared to sending a mono signal into the H9. Panning the H9 *is* discarding the right channel of the mod pedal, in exactly the same way as simply not connecting the cable would. This is actually audible too - both the Mono and panned stereo examples sound identical. If it wasn't discarding a channel of the mod pedal, then you would run into exactly the same phase cancellation issues as you would with any sort of summing method. I had initially interpreted this video as a "Use this method instead of traditional summing", which I think was where the misunderstanding came from.

Bro you're the guitar tech equivalent of a brainsurgeon. Thanks.

Hey great video! What about the radial passive DI boxes. They have a sum button that sums 2 1/4 input signals in to a balance XLR output. Would I have the same issue with these?

@VertexEffectsInc

2 жыл бұрын

You cannot sum pedals with external hardware...period. It's not the same as doing at the pedal internally.

Would a device like Morley’s ABY Mix provide a solution to this? Buffered with dual volume control.

@VertexEffectsInc

3 жыл бұрын

No, this is just a splitter

Hey. How would the mono sum work with separate dry/wet signals? I'm a bass player, realized that having multiple active pedals each with their blend knob at 12 o Clock is not that great. I was thinking of running my envelope, fuzz and drive pedals on a separate wet signal and then summing them back to mono before my Chorus pedal (which is mono). Is that doable, or is there a better way to do this?

@VertexEffectsInc

2 жыл бұрын

If they're both mono signals you can blend them...try it.